/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2595082
It's the idealogical struggle. It's an important process. The bourgeoisie are an older class than the proletariat. They had time to become unified in their thought. The proletariat is doing the same.

>>2595082
>Workers are divided into groups and countless political ideologies
Seems like the main driving force of the sudden surge of novelty ideologies is SEO, so as search engines and centralized social media die in the next 5-ish years that'll ease up.

>>2595082
I don't think things have gotten bad enough for the average person. The reason there's so much in-fighting is that there's not enough passion for a greater cause.
In that sense the accelerationists are correct, though their ideas of how to get there are usually dumb.
I honestly believe Trump could institute a monarchy and it wouldn't lead to a successful revolution, as long as most people still had their smartphones and weren't starving.

Well I'm just gonna hope the US loses the cold war anyway, even if it is to further liberalism.

Then it' gets looted from the inside and outside until it becomes a collection of foreign run NGO neolib dystopias. But the USAnos get so mindfucked that they are practically grateful to be liberated and then make movies about deserving the nukes austerity and invent a new form of artstyle to vent all their fucked up dysfunctions and newfound submission guilt for the crimes of the previous regime.

You try to organize the groups you can then find practical ways to coalesce them with others outside of the group.

I think there’s a big problem with people assuming the hegemony of left wing ideas when it materially isn’t there. Like demanding workers hate small business owners prior to organizing them, or demanding people are perfect internationalists (itself a very subjective category) before talking to them.

You have to start small and acknowledge where people are at in the present. Then you’ve got to do the hard work of improving that.

How much you want to bet OP's definition of "working class" is socdem hilterite parties and of "unity" is class collaboration

>>2595125
>Like demanding workers hate small business owners prior to organizing them, or demanding people are perfect internationalists (itself a very subjective category) before talking to them.
killing your every member is historically progressive btw

you're the real labor aristocracy

>>2595090
China, Russia and DPRK are neoliberal democracies

>>2595144
How is DPRK neoliberal?

>>2595082
the problem is one of practical organization rather than these divisions, which exist mostly as online aesthetic hobbyist nonsense. the reality is that when the chance comes along, the left are incredibly eager to unify behind something, and that but-for-a-few-malcontents they're broadly agreed on a socially liberal set of views, even if they're more divided on how you express them.

look at Corbyn or Sanders at their peak: /leftypol/ of the era was broadly supportive of them and still thinks of them more positively than you'd expect for being a nominally communist board, since they're ineffectual socdems. Sanders gets it worse than Corbyn, but that's because he shows his ass on foreign policy. Corbyn is still basically liked (indeed, one of the false accusations thrown at feminists and "idpol" is the idea that they are the ones who undermined him.) because he offers a central rallying point. When something, anything, better than the status quo is on the table people approach it with good faith.

now i'm not saying to put all your money on them: they're doomed socdems and the over-reaction necessary to keep them from power, to keep them from saving capital from itself, speaks to the total dysfunction of their respective countries. my point is that your ardent stalinist, trotskyist, maoist third worldist, 2016-era tumblr feminist, or other godforsaken freaks of the internet are quite ready to set aside their logically obvious theoretical objections and feel positively towards a project that holds out a chance of working. the aim for a communist, then, is to build such projects.
people will wreck a party without prospects because, absent prospects, the only value it offers is a hierarchy for them and their ideology to dominate. people are less willing to wreck when they've got a stake in something with a chance of working, even an illusory one.

>>2595163
Yeah the infighting happens when people feel there's no hope in the project's success. There's no greater purpose so they engage in self-aggrandizement.

>>2595144
You don't even know what you're talking about. Russia doesn't even fit into the category of China or the DPRK.

Ypu talk shit

just organize locally and be a contributing member. people are desperately seeking an answer to why they feel alienated and why life seems so harsh and so painful. consistent education on theory is the first step so that the average person can put on the sunglasses and see the chains around their neck, and how capitalism pits us all against each other. it's just about persistence and doing your part.

Everyone always says "the proletariat are too divided" until capitalism enters crisis, then a disorganised but unified bulk of workers opposition grows, waiting only for a vanguard party or group to turn their dissent into the ability to overthrow the state. There were probably also people in 1917 who thought the Russians were too reactionary to desire left-wing revolution.

>>2595163
Communists are very willing to lie to themselves because they are always desperate for allies and support, read: the fate of european social democracy, mensheviks, early history of CPC, the way Warsaw Bloc states were structured, a lot of Soviet foreign policy. Today self-proclaimed communists do this with every group from gay people as a whole to Talib Afghanistan. It's pathetic but also that's just how people in a position of weakness tend to behave.

>>2595241
>weakness is when not a murderhobo reactionary parasite
You WILL be forcefemmed in the revolution.

>>2595163
>Corbyn is still basically liked (indeed, one of the false accusations thrown at feminists and "idpol" is the idea that they are the ones who undermined him.)
What are you talking about everyone knows ot was the Jews. It has been widely written about in every news publication.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_British_Labour_Party
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45030552
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/anti-semitism-british-politics-and-the-indecency-of-jeremy-corbyn/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/world/europe/jeremy-corbyn-labour-anti-semitism.html

>>2595300
He really has no one to blame but himself tho. They set out to destroy him as soon as he became leader and all he did was bend over backwards for them. Surprisingly that didn't satisfy them and he was kicked out of his own party he was just the leader of. He really should be the prime example of what not to do. Every leftist should study his demise.

>>2595300
most of it was philosemites and bad-faith right-wing cranks, not jewish people.
remember "david gordstein"? that was the amusingly antisemitic jewdonym of the non-jewish Euan Philipps, chair of Labour Against Antisemitism, used to file complaints against Labour instead of doing so in his own name so that it'd look like they were ignoring a jewish person.

anyway, some on /leftypol/ will pretend that this worked and discouraged a lot of idpol-brained voters from voting Labour since they were antisemitic… only the polling data doesn't show this at all. labour lost votes mainly among the demographics least likely to be idpol-brained tumblrites. a lot of propaganda was thrown at making these people think labour were sexists, that failed so then they tried to make them out to be racist and - while this caused a lot of chaos for the leadership - it didn't actually discourage antiracist voters because they're not that dumb!

>>2595319
They were just working for the Israelis and international Zionery. The left will never get anywhere if denying ZOG remains a shibboleth.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-jewish-liberal-probably-anti-semitic-according-right-ncna1103036

>>2595324
The majority of the left is anti-zionist. Who are you kidding anymore. You just want the left to be anti-jewish.

>>2595327
People like you are just Zionist agents. The fuck does your statement have to do with the fact the Zionists were behind him getting canned?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israels-hand-behind-attacks-jeremy-corbyn

>Accuse everyone of antisemitism.
>deny Zionist influence
>boot anyone actually antizionist
>lather rinse repeat
Most on the left are dumb enough to fall for this trick over and over until the end of time.

why did mamdani succeed where corbyn failed? or are we yet to see the real power of the zionist lobby?

>>2595152
The DPRK enslaves its workers to multinational capital
>>2595468
Mamdani is a zionist.
>>2595183
Same liberalism

>>2595468
Accusations of antisemitism hadn't been played out in 2017 and further undercut by a relentless genocide broadcast across the world and everything that went with it. Also he wasn't undercut and betrayed by a bunch of blairite vermin.

>>2595468
1. mamdani was a much better performer. it cannot be underemphasized just how inappropriate a leader Corbyn was. he ran as leader not because he wanted to be leader, but because the left was obliged to put up a candidate. he won the leadership not because he was a PM in waiting, but because all his opponents were so arrogant that they nominated him as a candidate to watch him lose, then so grotesquely incompetent that they won his campaign for him by doing right-wing things.
2. his campaign wasn't split by the massive wedge issue of whether the country should leave the EU, on which his personal view is clearly a sort of soft-leave, but on which his party's view is more remain, and on which a chunk of his party's habitual voters view is leave…
3. while he was undermined by the dems, the US party system is a lot weaker. the labour party is a much more centralized institution and its bureaucracy + other MPs did all they could to wreck. moreover, in the UK system you rely on MPs, not on getting elected personally as PM. if Corbyn had won an election, there's a reasonable chance the Labour party would refuse to vote for him to be PM and join with the lib-dems or Tories to nominate a more moderate figure in parliament even though the convention is to send for a party leader.
4. america is for all its flaws more of a real well, bourgeois democracy than the UK, in the sense that you can choose to vote for coke or pepsi. the UK is a managed democracy of the most obvious kind - not just in how it wrecks the left, but in how it wrecks the right. (boris johnson was a cunt, but his downfall was to give a speech not-so-subtly telling the press he thought he'd won a personal mandate so they can all go fuck themselves. well, he was gone within the year.) the question of when this state of affairs arose is one of those disturbing questions to contemplate in bed at night. for my money, the last trustworthy election was October 1974. in darker moments, i wonder if feb/oct 1974 and maybe 1923 is the only democratic moment Britain has ever had. even 2017, that great near-loss, seems more and more like a management failure and less and less like a left wing organizing coup with time… (Indira Ghandi style, they bought their own propaganda and so didn't weight the scales hard enough.)

>>2595144
…wat

bernie sanders would have won the 2016 election over trump if he got the chance; a socialist jew was the person america wanted, but wasnt allowed. the idea of division is only the case where politics divides, rather than unites, such as in the case of class politics.

>>2595531
>provides no source
liberal

>>2596221
Bernie is worse than Hitler.

>>2595082
Use the electoral system to elect a strong, charismatic leader who then has a mandate to govern the people in their interest.

>>2596278
>the people
you mean corporations

>>2596229
He would still continue the evils of AmeriKKKa but he was clearly the least harmful possible option for Americans and the world at large.

wdym what are we supposed to do? agitate, educate, organize. figure it out how to do this for your conditions. i mean, tell me, what else do you think is there to "do"? (beside produce surplus and live in class society)