How was he so based, and why have few socialist leaders even come close to accomplishing what he did? I love 90% of what the guy did, and I really do think that he's greatly underappreciated as both a theoretician and a leader.
Jungle-tard S, the grim-reaper of Nepalese and Malagasy people, also fantasises over the boiling of indigenous infants of Peru and the hacking of their mothers with machetes.
How low will this British animal stoop?
>>2611165>90% of what he didwhat did he even do though?
>theoretician Give me one (1) theoretical contribution of this Abimael fella
>>2611165>theoreticianName one theory that wasn't slogans praising him.
>>2611165Impressive experimental cult
>>2611195what do leftcoms think about the many maoist jungle groups around the world?
>>2611198I hope at least one of them wins
>>2611198Robespierre would be proud of them I guess
(don't laugh!)
Im still waiting for S to enlighten us on atleast one (1) theoretical contribution of the Glorious Baby-Killing Leader Gonzaslop
>>2611317He was central in synthesising Maoism as the new stage of Marxism and strategized Protracted People's War as a universal strategy, that means it can be adapted to any condition on Earth right now. He transformed anti-revisionism into the Maoism of today, updating the theory of social-imperialism and the understanding of the capitulation to capitalism. Of course this wasn't all Gonzalo but the work of many people but he was central.
I would link relevant texts but I'm posting from a really old and slow laptop at my parent's house for Christmas and I don't have my bookmarks and downloads so it'd be a massive pain. I will post them when I have properly organised myself.
>>2611353Thanks for the serious reply.
>synthesise … as new stage ..Care to elaborate just a tad bit on that synthesis and how it is a ‘new stage’ please?
>universalWould you say it is applicable to England (where I assume you are from)?
Also, merry christmas to you and family
>>2611353On my way to me mums now too, and I do t even have a laptop. :(
Have a nice Xmas S! What is the maoist stance on traditional Welsh choire singing? Cringe and Christian or Revolutionary Potential?
>>26113541. It's the new stage in the same was as Leninism was a new stage of Marxism. It eclipses previous ways of thinking and makes the previous obsolete. Basically, Maoism is a new stage of Marxist thought, while also being Marxism itself.
2. I'm from Wales (though I'm in England rn lol), but yes of course it is applicable to England. You just need to think about how to apply it. I think anyone living in the UKKK should start by looking to the IRA as an example of a struggle waged in these conditions, though English people would need to find something other than progressive nationalism (of course, be English nationalists since that will kill the union and free the rest of us, but it won't be enough), and we will all also need to be better than they were through the use of Maoist strategies, the Irish struggle is just a good place to start.
>>2611382Extremely proletarian or at least progressive petit-bourgeois. I have seen a couple of very prestigious choirs who sung at the Eisteddfod who are extremely socialist and pro-Palestine and performed at Palestine events. Anyway thanks and merry Christmas to you too <3
>>2611353>strategized Protracted People's War as a universal strategy>updating the theory of social-imperialism So he was wrong a lot.
>>2611461Gotta give it to you jungle boys, when it comes to sloganeering, you are the best bar none.
>>2611425Watch Proud Valley if you get the chance then, might even be nice to sit and watch with the parents over Xmas. It’s about Choir and the workers struggle!
The based welsh are how I know about Robeson.
It’s on YouTube.
Show me any evidence that protracted People’s War works even in the third world let alone the first, Mao only won his protracted war because he was given all of China and Japan’s manufacturing hub in Manchukuo by the Soviet Army, without it the Communists would have lost to the nationalists.
Gonzalo and the Peruvian Communists will forever be heroes for staring down the liberal "end of history" and striking it down in Peru while "communist" Parties worldwide dissolved themselves and abandoned even the veneer of Marxism.
>>2611502>Mao only won his protracted war because of the SovietsBait used to be believable.
>>2611515It’s literally true, Mao literally admitted he would have lost the civil war without the Japanese invasion and the last moves of the Red Army in 1945
>>2611515Smug MaoAnon is here
>strike it downHow? By making sure the rural folks of Peru are forever disgusted by the sickle and hammer due to the Gonzalites acting like literal Waffen SS?
>>2611519Have you been to rural Peru? I have. That is
not the vibes of rural Peru.
>the Gonzalites acting like literal Waffen SScute.
I thought it was Allende for a second, didn't recognize him without the beard.
>>2611591Yes I have been and Gonzalo terrorised the poor folks for life.
>>2611591Why has the movement not grown in strength and taken over the country by now? Gonzalo’s eczema nuked the whole LARP. Why?
>>2611607
Uhhh ok?
>>2611603For life huh? Lmao ok.
>>2611604>Implying that revolutions cannot provide significant positive contributions to the International Communist Movement but experience significant setbacks and failures.Seeing as how France is not a socialist state, should we throw out the experience of the Paris commune too? Surely there's nothing to learn from the defining moment of practice of early Marxism since the movement failed to grow and take over the country!
>Implying a 20 year long civil war that took the capital on multiple occasions was a LARP.The PCP could have taken state power and y'all would still call it a LARP. Clown shit. How's western "communism" going, by the way? Still experiencing Party splits over whether you should even have a hammer and sickle as a symbol?
>>2611607>RonderosY'all will call the PCP terrorists and then cheer on roving bands of thugs organized by landlords and the neo-colonial Peruvian state to terrorize the poor peasantry. Incredible.
>>2611949Y'all vacillating hangers-on love to poetically recite lines from Marx like "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror" but then show your true colors and squeal like pigs (both the animal and the profession) the moment you're faced with what that actually looks like. I am Haitian and in our revolution we
slaughtered our enslavers wholesale and put babies on pikes. I do not apologize for this nor does this disqualify the Haitian revolution from being a world-historic anti-colonial revolution. The liquidation of whites on the western half of the island was a necessary act in preventing counter-revolution after 1803 and excesses committed were, like with Gonzalo here, an expression of legitimate rage that should not be stymied. If anything, it didn't go far enough, whites who remained in the Eastern half of the island were able to regroup and tear the nation apart to preserve colonial ties and found the neo-colonial Dominican Republic. The revolution will not be a glorious, poetic thing, but a brutal, grueling fight to the death where rage and slaughter are facts of life. We put politics in command of doing what must be done, but that doesn't overwrite the fundamental reality of what war is.
>The fact that he didn't even try to spin that shit in the slightest…Would you prefer he lied, or twisted the truth?
>shows such a complete lack of any sort of political understanding and disconnect from the working massesLying to the masses is the sign of a real disconnect. Standing on your principles firmly and openly, not shying away from what happened but acknowledging excess and explaining why it happened, is what demonstrates in theory and practice that leadership is genuine and holds no contempt for the working people. When we lie to the masses, or put a "spin" on things to soften what has happened, we are implicitly showing contempt for their intelligence and discernment.
>>2611949Why would he deny it? Lucanamarca was if anything too kind.
>>2612081You raise an interesting example when you bring up the case of the Haitian Revolution, as that would be, in my opinion, an example of the need for strategic violence trumping the need for "morality". The class interest of the white settler population of Haiti was always going to run against that of the oppressed majority, specifically due to the racialized nature of class society under French colonization. As a result, the liquidation of the white population would be a valid strategic choice, with moral concerns being of secondary-to-marginal concern. This is doubly so the case when we also note the unreasonable nature of expecting the emerging Haitian state to somehow find a way of re-educating this reactionary population, especially within the historical early industrial period.
I would argue that the Peruvian case is quite different. The Peruvian peasantry is not a fundamentally reactionary class as is the case with the settler-colonial population of Haiti, and is, if anything, the revolutionary subject within Peru. So when the PCP carries out an indiscriminate massacre of men, women and children in a peasant community as a reprisal action for past hostilities, this does not count as a valid strategic action. Targeted reprisals against known ronderos would have counted as a valid strategic action. Going so far as killing any military-aged men in the village who _might_ have been one would have been highly morally dubious, but undeniably carry strategic value. The killing of women and children merely for the crime of living in a village where reactionaries operate carries no strategic value whatsoever, and if anything serves to alienate the working class from the party and the armed struggle in particular.
You're right in saying that revolution is in many ways a brutal, horrific affair, it is after all impossible to "make a revolution in white gloves". Yet this does not mean that we should freely indulge in the worst elements of revolution without a care in the world. The fact that atrocities are inevitable in revolution does not constitute a carte blanche to actually go out and commit them. This is why I take objection to Gonzalo's take on the Lucanamarca affair. He tries to relativize the incident as merely an acceptable excess, with the prospect of "restricting the masses" being a worse outcome. This does not strike me as very convincing when this action contributed a net loss in strategic value and was also as chiefly perpetrated against individuals who were themselves of a working-class background. Gonzalo advises against restricting the revolutionary rage of the working class, but I don't think that "don't kill a working class toddler who happens to be born in a village with reactionaries in it" is so grave a restriction as to pose a serious strategic hindrance in the revolutionary struggle.
Most damning, in my opinion, is that Gonzalo seems to imply that no punitive measures whatsoever were laid against the perpetrators of the massacre. Excesses are expected in revolution, true, but this does not mean that we have to let them go unpunished. Contrary to what bourgeois propaganda claims, soldiers in the Red Army who committed rape were not turned a blind eye to or even encouraged, they were executed by a military tribunal. Why should the Communist Party of Peru tolerate in their ranks men who kill toddlers, who do so while representing the Party in the armed struggle no less?
The whole approach Gonzalo takes to this issue is thus very revelatory to me. He relativizes a morally objectionable action with no strategic value as permissible if excessive, with no punitive action being necessary against the perpetrators. The action in question is the indiscriminate murder of men, women and children, largely of a working class background. The fact that he not only believes this but is willing to openly state it proves to me that he was not only a man of dubious moral character (which is perhaps undesirable but not by no means a disqualifying feature if the individual in question is an effective revolutionary), but was also fundamentally incompetent in strategic matters (which made his leadership directly detrimental to the Peruvian class struggle) and therefore unfit to lead a vanguard party.
>>2612081Yeah hatians killed white slave owner families and their associates, not indigenous peasants or previously enslaved people maoanon. C'mon now
>>2612081>an expression of legitimate rage that should not be stymiedDiscipline is far more important than rage. Violence is a tool, and it should be deployed in a judicious, restrained, and calculated manner. "We were angry" is a pretty poor excuse for killing people from the very population you're trying to recruit and liberate.
>>2612239What has 150 years of discipline accomished? Not fucking shit
>>2611353>He was central in synthesising MaoismI thought that was Sison
did Gonzalo even write?
>>2611425>of course it is applicable to Englandidk how. i really dont think its universal or even that leninism is distinct from marxism except in that its applied to russian conditions and ML is a distinguishable trend that differs from self proclaimed 'orthodox' academics and ultras
but back to the topic, how u gonna ppw a bunch of reactionary labor aristocrats, or do maoists think thats third worldist junk?
>>2611461Then no days have happened
>>2612412sometimes there are some decades where no days happen and sometimes there are some days where two weeks happens
>>2611919>should we throw out the experience of the Paris commune too? Yes
There is literally nothing of value in it
>>2611919>terrorize the poor peasantryThe poor peasant children which were boiled alive by the Gonzaloite scum?
>>2613087>libcomso you fight retardation with even greater retardation
Lunamarca
>>2611165What did he even write? Give me some good books on MLM-pm.
>>2613087>To achieve this end, the first task of a people’s army is to make its presence known to the masses. Our Everglades focos would accomplish this by planting red flags all over the wetlands, clearly marking the area as their territory. They could also install loudspeakers at strategic locations and blast propaganda that could be heard for miles. Modern renditions of songs from the Cultural Revolution could be played on the loudspeakers 24/7, which would do a great deal to raise class consciousness. Titles could include “Without the Communist Party, There Would Be No New Florida” and “The East Coast is Red.”🤔
>>2611353>He accomplished a new ideology!Commit suicide you idealist shitrag. People like you make Trotskyites look like serious Marxists in comparison.
>>2612229bloodgasm, S, MaoAnon… your response?
>>2621303It's just whining and moral grandstanding. Mao ordered his men to kill his own rivals in the CPC (and came to regret it) but nobody cares because the revolution succeeded.
Peasants in Andes came to support the PCP even knowing about Lucanamarca. PCP at its height controlled 60% of the country
I know next to nothing about Gonzalo. Did he actually boil babies alive?
>>2621371No. That's an anticommunist nonsense lie. They just poured boiling water onto babies.
Preemptively I will say that he got swindled like a retard, got the tape to be shown to the prisoners and mindfuck them, and none of the rewards of an accord, just a forceful capitulation
Lmao
>>2621436You’re only making clowns of yourselves trying to demoralize us in such perfidious manners — once the essence of the situation is revealed (as it obviously is upon honest inspection), your entire fallacy unravels. Shhhh… Here’s your binky.
>>2621339>PCP at its height controlled 60% of the countryWhat went wrong?
>>2621664I would dispute even the degree of control, the maps normally pointed are "Areas of influence", not Liberated Zones.
>>2621476Since you are a bong, I would gladly ask you to some tourism in south America and check how their memory withstand time. Since I bet bourg surveys are no good to you. Just don't revel your ideolody upfront or you won't be granted access (don't be a retard, more of what you are)
The baby boiling myth has been well and truly debunked a long time ago
He’s based well and truly
"sometimes to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs". Gonzalo is proof of this.
>>2621762where's the omelette, though
>>2621664Gonzalo fucked up by living in Lima and getting g captured there. All the documents regarding the party operations were unencrypted and so the police basically knew all the members and how they operated. The Tarata bombing was also a big mistake.
Either revisionism had steeped deeply in leadership and Gonzalo was demoralized or he was kind of a scrappy teacher not really making sure the leaders were well-developed in Marxist analysis besides just agreeing with what Gonzalo said. Its a toss up for me. We're not going to get accurate documents by communists for a while so we're stuck with bourgeoise academic scholarship
Still, to stop the Shining Path, US government had to intervene and the Fujimori severely repressed the Andes peasants and killed 69,000 people. A number considerably less than what the Shining Path are accused of so keep that in mind when someone rants about the shining path being a baby killers.
>>2621764Again with the exaggerations. Who said 69000 by the state???. That is the number the ctr estimates for all the deaths is almost 70k by all sides, with more deaths by the hand of SP, a novel thing for an armed group.
>>2621763It didn't materialize because they didn't attack the Soviet embassy hard enough.
>>2621664it was the empty parts wasnt it?
>>2621987soviets by that point were a dickrider occupied goverment anyways
Robespierre if he didn't know how to read and was even more autistic
>>2633680sounds kinda based
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