Communism is neither related to "Leftism" nor "Socialism", in fact these reformist movements are antithetical to Communism.
Before some illiterate dumbass takes this as lazy "sectarianism", this was the key issue the Communist International meant to settle. In fact the entire Comintern was born out of the contradiction between the revolutionary content of Marxism and reformist nature of leftism, the murder of German communists at the hands of their left-socialist "comrades" cemented this seemingly forever (clearly not)
>In this connection all those parties that wish to belong to the Communist International must change their names. Every party that wishes to belong to the Communist International must bear the name Communist Party of this or that country (Section of the Communist International). The question of the name is not formal, but a highly political question of great importance. The Communist International has declared war on the whole bourgeois world and on all yellow social-democratic parties. The difference between the communist parties and the old official 'social-democratic' or 'socialist' parties that have betrayed the banner of the working class must be clear to every simple toiler.
<Twenty-one Conditions, Comintern 1919
Going further back to Marx, this distinction was evident (hence the "communist" manifesto)
>in 1847, socialism was a middle-class movement, communism a working-class movement. Socialism was, on the Continent at least, “respectable”; communism was the very opposite. And as our notion, from the very beginning, was that “the emancipation of the workers must be the act of the working class itself,” there could be no doubt as to which of the two names we must take. Moreover, we have, ever since, been far from repudiating it.
<Preface to the 1872 German Edition
>But why were the terms later used exchangeably by the early days of Lenin?
Simply, they were not. By "social democrats" Lenin was strictly referring to the membership of the SPD and its analogous party in Russia who upheld the doctrine of Marx at the time until the German SPD broke away from it.
>But why did Marx and Engels approve of the name SPD in the first place (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands)?
They did not. Both explicitly called the name unscientific and should always be treated as such by the party:
>The dialectician Engels remained true to dialectics to the end of his days. Marx and I, he said, had a splendid, scientifically exact name for the party, but there was no real party, i.e., no mass proletarian party. Now (at the end of the 19th century) there was a real party, but its name was scientifically wrong. Never mind, it would "pass muster", so long as the party developed, so long as the scientific in accuracy of the name was not hidden from it and did not hinder its development on the right direction!
<The State and Revolution, Chapter 4
They were the ones to re-name the League of Just to the Communist League of that wasn't obvious enough.
>acktuly Marx, Engels and Lenin were wrong. Leftist unity (class collaboration) now!!111
Okay. Just don't name yourself after the movement they represented then.
This is more than enough evidence to convince any serious communist that still using terms such as "Leftist" and "Socialist" or to identify with organisations that do, after this split was officially settled for over a century, has nothing to do with communism. This is not even to touch on the popular front slogan which is laughably opportunist.
>At the moment, while the democratic petty bourgeois are everywhere oppressed, they preach to the proletariat general unity and reconciliation; they extend the hand of friendship, and seek to found a great opposition party which will embrace all shades of democratic opinion; that is, they seek to ensnare the workers in a party organization in which general social-democratic phrases prevail while their particular interests are kept hidden behind, and in which, for the sake of preserving the peace, the specific demands of the proletariat may not be presented. Such a unity would be to their advantage alone and to the complete disadvantage of the proletariat. The proletariat would lose all its hard-won independent position and be reduced once more to a mere appendage of official bourgeois democracy. This unity must therefore be resisted in the most decisive manner.
<Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League, 1850
143 posts and 19 image replies omitted.bvmp
>>2639762>begging the mods of leftypol.org to pin this weirdo tripe about how communist revolutionaries aren't to the left of the reformists and reactionariesbait or tarded
>>2633562based anon demolishes OP and OP stops responding with cope
>>2658814I was busy plapping your mom to respond to a strawman, dude admitted to reply to a previous thread that he thinks is mine since he can't respond to the word of Marx, Engels and Lenin.
semantics
The Comintern was semantics
>>2611371Leninists: "Left Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder
notice how left wing is in scare quotesRight-Deviationists: WOW I GUESS THAT MEANS COMMUNISM ISN'T LEFT WING HURR DURR
>muh outside the bourgeois political spectrum.Yes. Outside and to the left.
>>2659227>it's a strawman because I said so and i'm doin ur mom lolololyou have to be an adult to post on this website
>>2633562OP called this post directly quoting and refuting him a "strawman" I guess. He has made a declaration and dusted off his hands. I guess it's over for this post.
>>2659267>i miss when this canned thread had >I still have my response saved, together with a snippet from OP. Is the thread you're replying to in the room with us right now?
>>2659266>>2659269Is the person you're replying to who brought up Infantile Disorder in the room with us right now?
Communism is centrist, standing against leftist radicals (anarchists, Trotskyist, radicals, etc.) and right-deviationists (social democrats, democratic socialists, etc) - which end up being two sides of the same coin anyway.
Only when we refer to the classical political spectrum of the modern age, like the order of seats in the national assembly of the French Revolution, from a world-historical perspective, yes, Communists are on the left - even though I would argue that Napoleon was the rightful completion of the French Revolution.
>Der Kommunismus ist nicht das Äußerste
>Aber wenn er nicht verwirklicht ist, gibt es keinen >Zustand, der
>Selbst von einem Unempfindlichen auf Dauer >ertragbar wäre.
>Der Kommunismus ist wirklich die geringste >Forderung
>Das Allernächstliegende, Mittlere, Vernünftige.
- Berthold Brecht
>>2659283>>2659284>stalinism is liberal centerismWe know
>>2611371<Communism is neither related to "Leftism" nor "Socialism", in fact these reformist movements are antithetical to Communism.What about the Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics?
I think autists like you who have no desire to actually do anything but get into autistic arguments about semantics from over a century ago do more harm to socialism/leftism/communism than anyone.
>>26593011- It was named that before the social democracy split was formalized
2- That's what Lenin called lower stage communism (Lenin noted that the USSR wasn't socialist)
3- The Bolsheviks re-named their party to be explicitly communist and never shied from that name unlike "socialist" parties
Now that I answered your question, why did the Comintern explicitly rejected the "socialist" title as outlined in its conditions?
>>2659301And why did Engles call socialism a "middle class" movement in the 1872 preface of the
Communist Manifesto, the title of which he still upheld decades later?
>>2659322So why did the soviets name their country socialist after that?
>>2659295Liberalism is extremist. Communism is the moderate center.
>>2659301Distancing yourself from contemporary Western "leftism" is the best thing that could happen to communists in pure practical terms, besides autistic semantics.
>>2659324You mean before? I just explained
>>2659318You're not going to answer because there are no answer lol
Petty bourgeois cuck
>>2659339>You're not going to answer because there are no answer lolYou said two contradictory things and you refuse to give an answer that explains your two contradictory opinions.
the greatest thing about leftypol is that they will look at historical mistakes committed by commies and think they should double down on it. yeah dude youre so hecking radical!!! socdems are social fascists!!!
>>2659341I accept your mother's concession
>>2659329Sure, and that goes for communism and the USSR as well. The only remaining countries that claim to be communist have zero interest in internationalism or supporting communist movements, that's if you even believe they're communist in the first place. All communist movements from the last century showed the limitations and inherent faults in the general communist plan.
I think it was said:
>Anyone who is not a Marxist in their youth has no heart, but anyone who does not become a revisionist as he matures, has no brain! >>2659347Just had another thought. It's so funny how communists feel like they're on the same team with China and it so important to support them, a communist party in charge of the second largest population and economy on Earth. Lol. For one, what support to they possibly need, and didn't Marx also say:
>From each according to his ability, to each according to their need?Shouldn't they be the ones offering help LMAO?
>>2659353>a communist party in charge of the second largest population and economy on Earth. Lol.I don't see how this is a problem and the same was more or less true for the USSR. So communism should only be represented by poor countries like Cuba which are not as successful?
>Shouldn't they be the ones offering help LMAO?What communist movements are worth supporting right now? Where do you think such "direct help" would even be feasible, accepting funds and support from foreign political organizations is a crime everywhere and gets you banned. The USSR supported Western communist parties more actively and the result was still underwhelming - a foreign state is not doing the revolution for you.
>>2659353>Just had another thought.Must be quite novel to you anon
>It's so funny how communists feel like they're on the same team with China and it so important to support them, a communist party in charge of the second largest population and economy on EarthMan yeah wow sheesh, that's a real headscratcher right there, man you sure found a contradiction alright. Now why would communists support the largest communist party on earth? Especially in their own imperialist countries that are, by and large, very hostile to it? Hmmmmmm, I guess we'll never know
>>2659353"Auygh broken from the inside is a life, auygh broken from the outside is a meal"
Simply installing some irrelevant marxist book club that never organized and earned the trust of the masses into government doesn't work. See: afghanistan.
It's a fundamentally liberal conception of "legitimacy", that one should rule because they have the right ideology or something.
Socialism is dictatorship of the PROLETARIAT, not of the party, therefore the ONLY way a socialist government can emerge is FROM the masses.
This is not some "rule" or requirement imposed from within, but the VERY DEFINITION of a socialist government: rule by the masses, guided and represented by the party.
A party that has no mass base does not DESERVE to govern and lead.
Totally agree OP, I hate these idpol brained "leftists" that all they want is treats and don't give a shit about imperialism
>>2611371Did communism fall out of the sky or does it spring from a historical lineage? What would that lineage be called?
>>2659438Republicanism and enlightenment.
>>2659438>doesn't know what the negation of the negation isBefore communism there is liberalism
>>2659379>I don't see how this is a problem and the same was more or less true for the USSR. So communism should only be represented by poor countries like Cuba which are not as successful?I wasn't saying it's a problem? I don't know how you drew that conclusion. I'm saying clearly they have means to provide help and they need no help themselves from communists anywhere else in the world.
>What communist movements are worth supporting right now? Where do you think such "direct help" would even be feasible, I don't know, it's a big world. I'm not saying it has to be in the West even. The communist party of China obviously doesn't give one fuck about international communism or spreading the revolution or anything like that. I think their "Marxism" is really all a LARP at this point.
>>2659481> think their "Marxism" is really all a LARP at this point.There is no logical reason for a supposedly Chinese nationalist party to LARP in reference to two 19th century German thinkers.
>>2659755How can it really be called Marxism if they are not trying to facillitate any kind of international worker's movement? Seems to me that has been a key feature of Marxism if I am not mistaken. "Worker's of the world unite" or something.
It’s actually that we are the only left there is, we alone carry on the spirit of 1789 and Robespierre . All the rest of the “left” are right deviations
>>2660580>we are bourgeois revolutionaries Cool. Has nothing to do with communism.
>>2660584What communistic stuff did you do today comrade?
>>2660585Not him, but I ordered a Huawei phone today. Worker cooperative in a socialist country.
>>2660584A bourgeois revolution necessarily precedes a proletariat revolution.
>>2660592how much more expensive is it because of the tariffs?
>>2660676dialectical understanding of history
>>2660584non dialectical understanding of history
reminder that we should look not only to robespierre and 1789, but to the Haitian revolution of 1791, the South American revolutions of 1812, and the European revolutions of 1848. Venezuela upholds Bolivar for a reason. Proletarian revolution is not a total break from bourgeois revolution, but is a completion of the false promises that the bourgeoisie made to the proletariat during their revolutionary epoch. The bourgeoisie would not have been able to win their revolutions without the cooperation of the workers, soldiers, and peasants, and so false promises had to be made to them.
>>2660708>>2660676The US/China are semi feudal shitholes
10000 more years of commodity production for cummunism to be possible
>>2660724Jesus, you are a fucking retard. The quality of posts has gone downhill dramatically.
>>2660748not him but you said the two most developed countries on earth are semi feudal. not every retarded statement made by an idiot is worthy of an "argument". you deserve to be told to fuck off. if this were a face to face confrontation, simply knocking your teeth out would be a more likely result.
>>2660766I was quoting your liberal kin.
Also the only thing getting knocked if we meet is your mom's womb by my girthy cock
>>2660738There was a time a lot of anons actually read this marks guy
>>2660772You have to go back to Reddit
The thread that ass raped lef*y/pol/
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