The recent (assumed) capture of Venezuelan president maduro has done far more reputational damage to the United States government and its remaining close allies than anything related to venezuela. Within hours of the incident, numerous fake articles, images, and AI generated feeds were created and promptly deleted off widespread social media sites twitter, instagram, and Facebook. Actual credible evidence on the presidents status is flimsy and currently unavailable with the only potentially valid piece being a strange image of Nicolas maduro uploaded on US president’s Donald J Trump’s twitter page.
Ignoring the major problem that proposes that the us media industry cares more for promoting agendas, disinformation, and propaganda in its convenience, the actual method to (assuming they succeeded) capture Venezuela’s state of head Nicolas Maduro will do more damage on the USA’s own political system than it will for venezuela and the international community at large.
The USA so far has done the following within just the past twelve hours:
>break into a country unlawfully and without issuing a warning, declaration, or even reason of entry
>proceeded to bomb multiple civilian and publicly owned military infrastructure
>(presumed anyways since reports on other major public officials in venezuela is flimsy) invaded venezuelas national political infrastructure to capture and take hostage over the Venezuelan president
>parade the presumed operation online in gusto while letting false and misleading information circulate rampantly on public forums
Regardless of whether or not Nicolas maduro was actually captured, by this action, the US government has communicated to most of the planet that it’s government and military are unstable, uncommunicative, still willing to defy international law and peace agreements, actively violate the sovereignty and need for self defence of smaller countries, and will take violent means to secure its interests. Many in informal political spaces and some members actively affiliated with the us government presume the operation went by for control over Venezuelan citizens oil. Personally, I don’t know why they did this, but the reason no matter what is still irrelevant to the damage the USA has done on itself and its surrounding states.
Venezuela just swore in a new president to carry out the country’s needs mere hours after the presidents absence regardless, and the US government now has to answer to both its bureaucracy and citizens on why it’s president and military are flaunting over active criminality and potentially a failed military operation.
>>2625110Based!
People accused me of "coping" for questioning the claims of Maduro's alledged kidnapping hours after the first rumours came up. I do not regret a second of it.
No proof, didn't happen. Simple as that.
>>2625126>Venezuela just swore in a new president to carry out the country’s needs mere hours after the presidents absence regardlessI feel like this should be proof enough that at the very least
something happened.
Anyway, isn't the new guy more US friendly?
>>2625170Woman, was vice president, severely doubt that stance given that she has to work actively under maduro and the rest of the Venezuelan government
Remember, the government is (far) more than just the state of head but reflective of the intents of what a society of people that can maintain control over a territory can handle
>>2625203>Remember, the government is (far) more than just the state of head but reflective of the intents of what a society of people that can maintain control over a territory can handleI'm not sure I agree.
History has shown that values are imposed from the top-down; that the values of a people are the values of its leadership. The Soviet people didn't request social realism, Stalin proclaimed that it was what they wanted, and they went along with it because the common man only has material interests and the desire to be part of a whole, rather than a set of values and tastes of his own.
It's funny how we're all stuck on the leftist notion that it's all about the people, the volk, when history has ultimately vindicated Nietzche, not Marx. Christian morality has taught us to feel guilty about basic social facts, when if we were more honest with ourselves, we'd drop the facade of populism and admit that society is lead by its leaders, and that power comes from power.
>>2625359Sorry for the lack of clarification
By “society” I meant specifically the society that makes up the government in question, not the masses of civilians that may or may not have any connection to it (largely because most developing states and failed states have civilian populations largely or fully disconnected from government affairs/resources on an administrative and or economic level).
>>2625203>woman VP>state of headYou saying she got that throat goat status, anon?
Reminder that you lost, Maduro lost, and nobody will do anything about it
>bbut the r-reputational damage
Indistinguishable from a generic libtard
>>2625359>History has shown that values are imposed from the top-down; that the values of a people are the values of its leadership … It's funny how we're all stuck on the leftist notion that it's all about the people, the volk, when history has ultimately vindicated Nietzche, not Marx. I don't think that discredits Marx at all. Where did Karl Marx talk about where power comes from? He's all about material conditions, control of production, force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one, etc.
What a lot of anti-imperialists do is a kind of meta-argument with liberals. They're not really "wrong" because according to liberals, U.S. credibility is based on soft power and ideological moral authority and that's bullshit. It's not unimportant and it's part of the structure, and there are material reasons why that is getting dumped for more vulgar displays of hard power, but the pretty stuff about morality and liberal piety isn't the engine of the system, it's more like a decoration to justify it by making it seem natural or normal, or is a kind of language that the ruling class uses to talk to itself in public.
>>2625359Nietzsche doesnt believe in great man theory tho, and he thinks society as a whole is configurated by instincts and impulses, not "lead" by "their leaders".
>>2625359reactionary babble
>>2625535>gloating on behalf of imperialist reactionarieswhat's your problem?
>degradation of the US government’s reputation
There’s no government on earth with a good rep outside of Switzerland maybe.
>>2626064>By the way both the American military and tech industry is within 2-5 years due to cease function as Lake Mead reaches dead water which is why trump got approval for his retarded diplomatic suicide.Explain the effect of lake mead on this is their critical industry near nevada?
I know vegas is fucked but what the geopolitcis off it
>>2626291>going to be jailed over this is unlikelyAre you a retard? Do you think they would kidnap a fucking president just to give him a fair trial and let him come back if innocent? Have you never heard of Noriega? Fucking moron.
>but muh international law, muh negative reactionNobody gives a shit.
>>2626306Anon
You’re placing way to much faith in the USAs strength if you think they genuinely have the power to keep a man like maduro held captive in their current state. There’s a reason why they’ve done largely nothing in Ukraine for almost four years now.
My reaction of cynicism isn’t born out of optimism for the idea of justice, but one out of the idea that the USA is literally too incompetent and weak in the state it’s in right now to carry out any of its ambitions. Already, multiple calls within that country’s borders are calling for the return of maduro *even before leaders external to the country did.* do you think a country like that is going to hold a president like maduro captive? Ignoring that, do you genuinely think every government on the planet is going to sit on its ass even after what we saw with the European reaction to the Russo invasion of Ukraine or the global scale shock felt by the Palestinian and Sudanese genocides? Hell no.
Ignoring morals and justice entirely, governments are only legitimate in so far that they can protect their citizens. An act like invasion of a sovereign country just for oil of all things is an invitation for even more countries that were still neutral on the USA to militarize against it, not for the sake of being in the right, but for the sake of their own survival.
Key word
S U R V I V A L
>>2626314The difference with sadamm was that people weren’t actively trying to keep him from execution much less condemning an invasion against him openly. The USA currently far from has that level of public support and I don’t think they’ll be getting it back for a long time.
>>2626288Lake mead directly not only indicates the health of las vegas but the entire pacific rim branches of silicon valley and the military, Since the american southwest is a desert yet the more profitable pacific coast for exports overlap, the americans have no choice but to keep lake mead afloat or risk food, freshwater, and power security for the entire southwestern region which is the core of the actually existing post war american production. They have been draining other nearby lakes connected to lake mead such as lake powell which dropped 26 percent last year to keep it afloat but this year is when a federal emergency will be declared by the Reclamation fed and knowing trump he will just cut off California and blue states completely and call it a day while doubling down on the water budget of the blue chip military industrial complex until deadwater is achieved.
>>2625170IIRC Rodriguez’s father was a communist killed by the previous regime so that’s doubtful.
>>2625535Maduro lost, but the actual damage to the Venezuelan government is minor. Removing one man will do nothing to the system, doesn’t matter if he was the figurehead, all he did was speeches and funny jigs anyway.
>>2626311>There’s a reason why they’ve done largely nothing in UkraineYeah, their enemy is nuclear power, not another small poor country.
>USA is literally too incompetent and weak in the state it’s in right now to carry out any of its ambitions. What fuck does that mean? That fucking stupid to kill a man that is hated by most of the "free world"? Have you been in a coma for the last 25 years? Would you say that the US is too incompetent too kill Osama or Saddam?
>Already, multiple calls within that country’s borders are calling for the return of maduro People disagree with government about many things, doesnt stop it from doing it anyway. Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, just to name a few.
>do you think a country like that is going to hold a president like maduro captive? Yes.
>Ignoring that, do you genuinely think every government on the planet is going to sit on its assNo. Some will support Trump, while other will send strong worded letters against it. But that is about it.
>Russo invasion of Ukraine or the global scale shock felt by the Palestinian and Sudanese genocides? Hell no.Do even read what you write? You are comparing a regime change of a "brutal dictatorship" with the invasion of a "floushiring democracy" and 2 fucking genocides. The only countries that believe in different narratives already showed that don't give a shit.
>>2626327> but the actual damage to the Venezuelan government is minorAnd this is where the part of my OP comes in. The damage to the USA was greater to almost to no benefit.
I have a question. Do you think the us government is really not going to get into trouble over this? Like fuck man, just compare the situation they had when people still hated china and knew Jack shit about Eastern Europe before 08’ to today where even Europe has strained relations with that country
Like, I don’t understand the people saying that reputational damage to the US doesn’t matter because how are they going to condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine or potential Chinese invasion of Taiwan without looking like total clowns? Years and years of illusion of them “upholding the rules based order” comes tumbling down after this completely illegal and unannounced attempt at regime change with only flimsy charges of “drug trafficking”(0 evidence tying Maduro to Venezuelan cocaine which doesn’t even go to America) to back it up. In past invasions of Iraq, Libya, etc they had international backing and validated the invasions with the UN, this time they just went in without the UN’s approval or even their allies’ approval other than maybe Israel. Or even domestic approval from the other wing of the bird, the Democrats, which seem to be increasingly working for different interest groups rather than being united with the Republican faction on foreign policy.
>>2626335Yes, it will especially damage their relationship with the EU since EUropoors are obsessed with “rules based global order” but Brussels/the UN weren’t consulted or even notified at all. Trump doesn’t seem to care about wrecking relationships with the EU, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter
>>2626332I don’t think you’re understanding the scale of the damage the us military just carried out to its own country which I can understand since most don’t see politics from an actual administrative standpoint. It’s not just that maduro got captured. It’s that:
• the us military unlawfully and without warning invaded a neighbouring state of less power purely off self interest
• proceeded to parade the action despite having killed non combatants and civilians while destroying civilian and security infrastructure simultaneously
• flooded multiple online spaces with American propaganda, disinformation, and AI generated feeds (fortunately most of it is gone)
• and ignored a shitload of laws the UN and other unions the USA is affiliated and partially reliant on with
This is the type of behaviour expected of actually rouge/terrorist states by the way like Russia currently or Eritrea
I understand if a civilian is completely bummed and disinterested in what happens, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in the White House is fucking panicking with how much reputational damage the current decision by the us military and trump administration just brought onto the us government and citizenry arbitrarily. Ignoring how bad this looks on the USA, I’m already seeing reports of increased military hostility directly in response to this anftion and soon to be more developments. This comes all in a time where the USA has historically the lowest number of allies and highest number of enemies it has had in a while.
You think even if that country’s government returns maduro things are suddenly going to be sunshine and roses when it comes to anmerica annd the fucking planet after this?
Imagine this whole Maduro thing gives China the chance to completely take over europe.
>>2626347Why are you posting a scared photo? Comrade Nationbuilder is doing great work for the cause
>>2626345The US already did all of this stuff, and nobody gave a shit. They fucking invaded Iraq because of a lie and thousands of people died. The biggest consequence was that the public lost trust in Bush and the GOP had to reinvent itself as an "anti-war” party, not a catastrophe on the US sphere of influence. It may be hard for you to understand, but Maduro was established by most people as a violent dictator and by some as a drug lord. Nobody cares about international law and sovereignty when this shit is helping "evil" people to be safe. You may think that international community is angry, but it because of surprise, in a week or two nobody will care. If all of this shit doesn't devolve into a civil war, they are going to give Trump or Rubio a Nobel Prize because of their "efforts to protect democracy" in a few years.
>>2626368>>2626363Like fuck man
Did you forget that trump is the first president to be impeached twice, face assasination head on, and be crowned genuinely the worst president in that country’s history in a time where the last thing it needs is more enemies?
Yea. I don't know if they'll actually go for the big RC but if they had it their way some pinochet type figure would definitely reign supreme over venezuela and launch latam into a bloody and cruel war but since there isn't tells me the US is beginning to limit it's ambitions. So I'll chalk this entire mess up as another sign of imperial decline.
>>2626368Man, Trump is not US. Even worst case scenario, that this conflicts turns into a 2nd Iraq, the Trumpists will have to leave the GOP for someone else and even that highly unlikely. The venezuelan military gave Maduro on platter, they are probably going to negotiate some back-door deal and organize elections. With some time, someone less crazy is going to become president and will mend Trump diplomatic shit.
>>2626363They are also scaring the shit out of Colombia Brazil and maybe Mexico which historically were US allies.
>>2626399How do you fix possibly a straight decade of idiocy on this scale?
>>2626402>>2626405All of this fear is because of Trump diplomatic policy, unless he does something incredibly stupid in the next 3 years (like starting WW3) the next president can fix it just by not doing stupid shit , like putting a Supreme Court judge in under magnitsky sanctions because they convicted a political ally. Trump is an outlier and whatever he does can be fixed.
>>2626420Yeah assuming the American populace don’t elect another old as fuck, probably pedophilic male billionaire for like the fourth time in a row by 2028
>>2626343>>2626311>You’re placing way to much faith in the USAs strength if you think they genuinely have the power to keep a man like maduro held captive in their current state. There’s a reason why they’ve done largely nothing in Ukraine for almost four years now. Those are two different things. Allow me to cite Holden Bloodfeast again.
>>2626338>Like, I don’t understand the people saying that reputational damage to the US doesn’t matter because how are they going to condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine or potential Chinese invasion of Taiwan without looking like total clowns? Years and years of illusion of them “upholding the rules based order” comes tumbling down after this completely illegal and unannounced attempt at regime change Yeah but it's not like Putin is a believer in that order either.
>>2626343>Trump doesn’t seem to care about wrecking relationships with the EU, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matterIf the Europeans tell him, you can't do this, we don't want to rely on you from now on he's going to be, like, *good* that's exactly what we've been telling you because the U.S. isn't going to be Europe's helicopter parent anymore. Now it might end up in a big disaster but I think this is how the administration thinks.
>>2625126Total china victory
>>2626402(((Sh*enbaum))) will just cuck out to Trump and impose more tariffs against China
>>2625359>leaders are what determine society>venezuela>the country that had a revolution because of cronyism and poor managementIt's as if social and material structures determined the superstructure hmmm… If Maduro's state collapses because of the intervention, it's because it's signaled a weakened state to the venezuelan people, not because their precise leader got captured. People often don't realize the cost of appearance (in which cult of personalities fit in).
>>2626338It's funny to watch from the european perspective. You guys had an empire in the 1990s-2000s but neocons scared everyone away because of unjustified intervention. Because of this, other powers emerged and had antagonistic relations to the US. You could've kept and made the liberal dream come true, but you just had to intervene in Irak and afghanistan, and scare everyone off. It decribilized you on the international scene and cemented the idea of imperialism despite the end of the cold war.
Then, afterwards, through the Obama admin, you guys were doing fine economically, and had more or less managed to contain these antagonist countries to third-world rebellious dictatorial regimes. I mean, look at China. It was not seen as a threat as it is today. I still remember discussing with friends about China in the 2010s and saying "yeah, china is illiberal but it's because of confucian values. They'll eventually switch sides". Then, you guys voted for Trump and sent a massive "fuck you" to european and other liberal allies.
It's sad really. You could've really had the entire liberal hegemony but you destroyed it because of :
1. Neocons intervening in Irak and signaling that third world countries had to adopt liberalism or die (which prompted reactions from said-countries)
2. Trump completely destroying the liberal premise of mutual development, ecological unity, social progressive cohesion etc.
It really is just the republican party in the end…
>>2625170>Anyway, isn't the new guy more US friendly?only if you take trump at his word, which why would you? the guy doesnt know what he's going to do tomorrow, and doesnt remember what he did yesterday
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