unitedstatian 'ultras' are the most obvious crypto chauvinists in the world and I say this as a great and authentic ultraoid
There is more proletarian solidarity to be potentially found among the conscripted ranks of the IDF and Wehrmacht than in your mercenary petty bourgeois/labor aristocrat army
Every dead american soldier is a victory for the international working class. Further proof of this is in the rise of anti-war sentiment among the american proletariat whenever the cost of war spikes (Vietnam, War on Terror) compared to the jingoistic character they generally take whenever it goes their way (WW2, Gulf War), it also has a proletarianization effect on volunteers.
<revolutionary defeat for thee but not for me!
sorry but
>"The English working class will never accomplish anything before it has got rid of Ireland. The lever must be applied in Ireland." - Letter from Marx to Engels In Manchester, 1869
>"The conversion of a war between governments into a civil war is, on the one hand, facilitated by military reverses ("defeats") of governments; on the other hand, one cannot actually strive for such a conversion without thereby facilitating defeat." The Defeat of One's Own Government in the Imperialist War, Lenin
<b-but hate is le bad
While we do not envy or disdain the bourgeoisie as is common of the middle class, as that would reinforce the role of competition in society, Marx also notes that there can be no class war without class hate. Hating your class enemies (police/army) can be revolutionary, granted it doesn't distract from the materialist critique of class society that is absent of morality.
Yes I will take a million dead US soldiers over one dead prole who they were in the process of killing. I'm not shedding a tear over my militant class enemies.
<Why not join us third worldists in cheering for another baZed imperialist war!??
1. because you're most likely amerikkkans too (the flip side of this coin)
2. I'm a third worlder and I'm committed to revolutionary defeatism
3. I've seen the extent "anti-imperialists" here are committed to anti-imperialism (not at all) there can be no anti-imperialism without class movement, third world bourgeoisie massacre of workers and enslavement of labor has vindicated the real movement:
NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR
Any movement that just beats on the US goverment losing foregin wars will fail. America will only fall when the will of Americans cease to exist
Either the workers of the U$ will stage a revolution, or the wicked country will be nuked into nothingness in the exchange at the end of the proletarian world war. It would be sad to kill so many but that's the reality of nuclear war and the loss is acceptable. If U$ workers want to survive they better start organising now.
>>2629445Bro said nothing. I agree with you AND t/ultraleft snark
OP is wrong and a evil amerimutt
>>2629500Either the workers of the U$ will stage a revolution, or the wicked country will be nuked into nothingness in the exchange at the end of the proletarian world war. It would be sad to kill so many but that's the reality of nuclear war and the loss is acceptable. If U$ workers want to survive they better start organising now.
someone post this on r/ultraleft I want to see the meltdown
>>2629445American enlisted soldiers are definitely NOT "petty bourgeois" (easily the most misused term on this site) or "labor aristocrat". Most of them are very much proles. They join for the guaranteed income, housing, food, and healthcare.
Call me crazy but this seems to me like some weird liberal-individualist mutation of revolutionary defeatism where the focus is on galvanizing the population against you by cheering on the deaths of individual soldiers rather than actually trying to facilitate the defeat of your bourgeois government.
Like the Bolsheviks slogan was “peace, land, and bread”—not “more dead conscripts”.
>>2629599>you don't get bro they had no other option, either genocide proles or flip burgers, they were practically forced at gun pointMost enlisted Americans ARE petty bourgeois hitlerites.
mald
>>2629609I agree I don't know how these people expect proles to support them when they are praising the death of teenage men groomed into the millitary
>>2629630A lot of the proles that go into the millitary are just groomed kids. You should be wishing the death of the recruiters and officers that pressure them into death
>>2629609>Call me crazy but this seems to me like some weird liberal-individualist mutation of revolutionary defeatism where the focus is on galvanizing the population against you by cheering on the deaths of individual soldiers rather than actually trying to facilitate the defeat of your bourgeois governmentYou're not crazy. You're just imperialist. Abetting deaths of imperialists is upmost priority in defeating imperialist government, not voting plater.
Who cares what r/ultraleft retards say, there's only like 1,000 of them. Everyone else "Thanks God for Dead Soldiers"
Guys when Lenin said that civil war is facilitated by military defeats, he obviously meant my wholesome petty bourgeois enlistees get to go home peacefully after bombing a factory full of workers.
>>2629609Keep simping for zogbots who would shoot you without a millisecond of hesitation if they were ordered to
>>2629636>You should be wishing the death of the recruiters and officers that pressure them into deathMuhammad Youssef Abdulazeez did nothing wrong, but single cities only have several recruiter offices each with only several fat old pussies inside them. All millitary and their abbetor are strategic target in People War
>>2629615I like how you can't even quote me directly, you have to make shit up. I never argued whether they were "forced" into it or not. That has no bearing on whether or not they're proletarian.
Please look up what the definitions of proletarian and petite bourgeois are you absolute retard.
>look at this screencap of this google search! no I will not provide any further context, just trust me broFuck off back to 4chan with this garbage.
This is what the first article defines as "middle class". The literal middle income brackets, 60% of the country! Enlisted are 1-2% more represented in those brackets. Wow! Just ignore that they're underrepresented in the highest income quintile (where the actual petty bourg would reside), very inconvenient.
THIS is all you've got? You made a whole thread and the moment you get pushback you use something this flimsy? The entire foundation for this thread is made of sand.
Reminder that every single soldier in the military joined voluntarily.
>b-but they were forced into it!!! no jobs!! ):
Ok they could've worked at fucking McDonald's but instead they joined the military to earn more money knowing full well they might have to kill some enemy of the U$ government one day. U$ soldiers in Vietnam? Sure most of them were ACTUALLY forced into it and they responded by fragging their petit-booj officers. But no modern soldier gets any sympathy.
>>2629609Simping for the military that is rapidly losing popularity especially as the National Guard gets deployed in cities. Young people are not going into the military except rabid patriots or those who would trade blood of proles for free college
leftcoms dont actually believe the shit they say. they're the left's equivalent of 14 year olds saying 'hitler did nothing wrong'. it's just attentionwhoring
>>2629599The US military literally deploy like a world police protecting private property. Do you call police proles. That is their recruitment pool
>>2629665>but what about these analogies! those are kinds of arguments right???This thread is so anti-materialist it's disgusting.
>>2629666why do you hate proles so much? i bet you wouldve cheered for the death of innocent SS proles
Ultimately troops are going to have to die for a defeat, this should be obvious, not out of moral hatred for the troops or sense of justice but from the simple cold accounting numbers of the situation. Soyciety is a Markov chain and not a complex one
Reminder that ultroids think Azovites in Ukraine are "proles"
>>2629445Damn. You know it's bad when ultras start turning on each other and going #NotAllUltras.
What kind of moron goes to bat for American "soldiertariat", anyway?
>>2629670Oh and also every single IDF rapewaffen member is a prole.
>>2629677>>2629670Conscripts
are proles. Proles are just not naturally immune to being reactionaries.
>but cops are selling labor for a wage!I know. Incorporate "class traitor" into your world view.
>>2629680Most IDF and Ukrainian army Azovites are volunteers
>>2629666Its not when you are calling police any different than the military
>>2629681Ignoring all the mobiks, sure.
>>2629686Every soldier in the *Russian* army is a proletarian
>>2629688Look, I'm trying to help (you) here. You're purity spiraling. You're using No True Proletarian as a crutch. Your conception of "The Proletariat" is idealized.
Proles are people. Real people. Capable of having reactionary opinions and doing reactionary things. We do not look to the proletariat for a power base, because they are le wholesome chungus smol beans, and wouldn't it be just the darndest peak Good Thing, if they were in charge. We do it, because they are means to an end. The true source of power. And without power, all your dreams of change are but thoughts in your head. The more change you want, the more power you need, and the theatre of parliamentary politics is inadequate. They conspire to rob the people of most of their power, and trick them into handing over what little they have left.
>>2629706unc crashin out bruh i ain't readin all that
>>2629680This is the first time I see a tankflag not posting mind boggling liberal cringe
>>2629713he's actually right and that's the marxist take.
>>2629721And you're the first Third Worldist Ultraleftist, because you're bitching at the Western Ultras as a whole.
>>2629750>Third WorldistRead OP retard
precriptions for practical action on this website are always of one or more of the following forms:
a) kill yourself;
b) be imprisoned as a gesture of protest;
c) cheer for or against something.
c) is by far the most popular of these forms, and it is what's being prescribed by this op. it is also by far the least efficacious of three very poor alternatives. that said, anyone taking the time to shed a tear for the fallen burger soldier is at least suspect, if not actively antagonistic. it's far worse to in any way legitimate or honor imperialism than it is to prescribe an inadequate response.
>>2629761A lot of anons are still stuck on the Vietnam draft where proles were drafted to fight while the rich and well-connected got to skip. We haven't had a draft in half a century and two generations of Americans who volunteered to join the military
>>2629755I did. It's precisely why I called him a Third Worldist. The moment you accuse a portion of ultras of using ideology as a disguise for their chauvinism, you draw a circle around all the Western ones. Oops.
It's like self-identifying as anarchist, then going to Ukraine to fight Russia and joining an explicitly fascist unit. There's a material reality here that doesn't care what you self-identify as.
Amerikkkan imperialists are largely middle class losers who deserve to turn into pink mist when they land on foreign soil. Soldiers being working class has not been true since Vietnam.
>>2629880>A lot of anons are still stuck on the Vietnam draftwell that's idiotic since that ended half a century ago, and the bourgeoisie let it happen because they knew it would create a more loyal imperialist military.
"middle class" isn't a marxist class category. imperial storm troopers are workers in the same way that cops and tax collectors are workers: they are salaried employees of the bourgeois state. you don't have to resort to bourgeois socio-cultural class categories like "middle class" to understand this and still recognize their actions are contrary to the interests of international proletarian revolution. we already have a very simple way to conceptualize such people within Marxist class analysis: they're class traitors.
The background of individual human beings is irrelevant. America is a bourgeois nation, and all its citizens are thus bourgeois. Its enemies like China, Russia, etc. are proletarian nations which we must support. simple as
>>2630695go get on your plane biao
>>2630695China is proletarian but Russia is petit bourgeois, it’s the dynamics of revolutionary China but applied to the world stage
>>2630695You and ACP types should kill each other.
>>2630744>Chicano-imperialist and Afro-imperialist Meaningless oxymorons
>>2629466>America will only fall when the will of Americans cease to existDemoralization only serves the bourgeoisie. That is something Lenin himself had identified.
>>2630546Maoists make such powerful memes
>>2630695Utterly fucking delusional
I don't get it, are you retards inol6ying the military in other countries aren't full of reactionary anti-communists?
>>2631446>>inner nationalist feelings hurtThat would be the case if I were American, sadly for you, retardo, I am not.
>doesn't deny being a coping retard
lol
>you are a coping retard for pointing out that all military personel, not just american, are fascist class traitors
It's hilarious how much they seethe when you point out how their "REEEE AMERIKKKA" tantrum is fucking retarded
critical support to IDF and Wehrmacht proles
death to burgerreich petite-mercenary army doebeit :)
Yes but like class war alone would end like 99% of the bullshit so i don't really see the problem
>>2629445>There is more proletarian solidarity to be potentially found among the conscripted ranks of the IDF and Wehrmacht this is why leftcoms should all killed with hammers also fuck off genocide supporting is literally you guys policy since ᴉuᴉlossnW you dont get to pick and choose now
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