/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>US Balkanizes
>20 years after that it forms an EU-like economic and political block

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Why do people take it for granted that this would happen? When 'balkanization' happens its usually because large countries political systems are designed in such a way that breaks their bourgeoisie into smaller squabbling ethnic/regional ones (nationalism has always been useful for the bourgeoisie for organization for this reason ofc).

US Civil War=strong regional identities created by African slavery, which economically tied the north and south together but created two systems that could not coexist politically especially when the topic of settler expansionism came up.

USSR/Yugoslavia=republics organized on ethnic lines that competed for resources and influence during unified socialist days, once the dissolution happened the respective bourgeoisies organized themselves among those ethnic lines and set their proles out genociding each other to compete directly for territory

Post colonial states eg Lebanon=specific ethno religious groups privileged under colonial occupation, balance of power may or may not have changed in postcolonial era, either way ethnic conflict starts because one group feels locked out of patronal networks OR civil war starts from other factors but becomes organized along ethnic lines for other reasons

I dont see any of this in the modern US that would cause balkanization or secession as people envision it, even with red states vs blue states. The closest thing post-Civil War was how the white bourgeoisie tried for many decades to strangle any emergent black bourgeoisie/black nationalist movement in its cradle which is why the 1960s and 70s probably brought the US closer to a race war than any time in my (90s millennial) life, but even there they eventually conceded and allowed a small segment of the population social mobility and now theres a black bourgeoisie that has a distinct outlook (conservative democrats who believe in "black excellence" type stuff that was esp prominent last decade) and is also invested in the US political system being stable

>ANOTHER fucking thread about the US
can you fuck off

>>2636637
it's the only important country besides china and russia just accept the fact, no one cares what happens in paraguay

>>2636586
Someone correct me if I´m wrong, but it doesn´t seem to me that the USA has any cultural/etnic tentions strong enough to such a level of balkanization. In Yugoslavia the people had/have enough historical and cultural ties to the countries that formed it to have a nationalist blood bath.
The people of the USA, be white, black, native or even latino-gusano have a clear and united american identity they share-being consumerists to the soul and an idealistic sense of liberty and freedom-, and the american state did a better job at making shure diferent kind of people "share" the same identity and pertenence of a single nation.
The end of the USA as we know it will be in chinese style warlords taking control of territories, fighting to see who takes the role of the new America.

What about Indian balkanization?

>>2636645
>no one cares what happens in paraguay
Paraguay is game to you???

>>2636782
Francia was pretty cool

>>2636586
>>2636748
The U$ is a Prison house of Nations, which treats the Black/New Afrikan, Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo, and First Nations/Native American populations like they are not U$ citizens (Trump ending birthright citizenship will probably transform this from a De Facto to a De Jure reality by officially stripping citizenship from most of these populations), with them essentially acting as a permanent domestic underclass with essentially no rights that are exploited for cheap labor and disproportionately suffer from Mass incarceration and police brutality, with their neighborhoods essentially under De Facto occupation by militarized police (The ICE raids in Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo communities throughout the U$, and Trumps deployment of the National Guard to Black/New African and Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo neighborhoods in Los Angelas, DC, and Memphis, has essentially made this a De Jure reality), as New Afrika, Aztlan, and the First Nations, are Oppressed Nations/Internal Colonies inside of the U$, and their National Liberation should be the number one goal of U$ Communists (U$ Communists must give up on the Quixotic Bourgeois Electoralist Tailist Chauvinist effort to desperately appeal to the Ultra-Reactionary White Settler Labor Aristocracy) as stipulated by the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist principle of Self-Determination for all Oppressed Nations in their own SSR as articulated in Stalin’s “Marxism and the National Question” https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm and Lenin’s “The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination” https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htm , along with the National Delimitation Policy of the USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_delimitation_in_the_Soviet_Union , which will happen once the inevitable World War III between the U$ and China escalates into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW (in both the Periphery/Semi-Periphery where Maoist PPW is already viable in the Material Conditions, as proven by the ongoing Maoist PPWs in India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru, and in the Imperial Core, where Maoist PPW wont be viable in the Material Conditions until World War III breaks out and/or Liberal Bourgeois Democracy is permanently suspended, with these two events being related and probably happening around the same time) to create a Global USSR (all of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are shown in the map I posted, with the former U$ Balkanized into a New African SSR that includes the Black/New Afrikan majority counties of the Black Belt, a Hispano-American SFSR that includes the Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo majority counties in the U$ Southwest, along with the rest of the Spanish-speaking Multiracial regions of the Americas, while the White Settler majority regions in the rest of the former U$ become part of the Anglo-American SFSR, which also includes the English-speaking provinces of Canada, as Quebec will become its own SSR, with all the Native American reservations becoming ASSRs) to Place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

>>2636788
Shortest leftist meme

>>2636788
>gonzaloist-posadist synthesis
mother of god, this cooks so hard

All parts of America just look like the same suburban slopscape. What's there to divide about? "Oh I'm from Ohio so I have a blood feud with people from Iowa" no you don't.

>>2636798
I can't even argue with it, he's right.

>>2636801
The Southwest which has a historical predominant Spanish speaking population is different than New England. There are remnants of regionalism and state wide bourgeois such as business monopolies that dominate a region but not others. The idea that the US is this one unified same thing ends up not properly analyzing the US

>>2636802
I never lie with my party flair on. I'll probably have to drop flair to talk about my thoughts here, but lemme just say I got a whole lot to chew on now

>>2636801
European medieval slopscape divided itself too. With enough tribalism anything is possible.

>>2636586
Why not Post-American Unionism? That's what the Bolsheviks did in practice, and I highly doubt most people on this board (except maybe Anarchists) would argue that it was a bad thing for the Bolsheviks to try to fight for control of the whole contiguous territory of the former Russian Tsardom. Granted, the Soviets ultimately failed to abolish certain aspects of the Tsardom's carceral system and at times failed to make Soviet patriotism avoid being dominated by Russian chauvinism, but inheriting those problems are things China is struggling to deal with and the US will very likely struggle with if we managed to have a revolution, but this is a huge tangent on my part.

The point I'm trying to make is: why should working people in the US desire balkanization? Our domestic economy is so widely dispersed within itself that the various regions have only become more dependent on each other; even if balkanization would somehow benefit Leftists, it would cut the various regions off from each other in a way that would force them to do Capitalist developmentalism. From a Realist perspective, that would be prudent: to develop your economy to the point that you can sustain an industrial war with any would-be imperialist trying to meddle in your lands. But despite what MLs have tried to convince people for almost 100 years now, not only is that not Socialism, that is taking defeat and selling it as victory; shifting the goalposts on a world-historic scale. Even if you get some based Socialist New Afrika or whatever, the Blackbelt in the South would arguably be one of the biggest losers in this scenario. I don't think people who muse about this realize how unpopular the reality of hard borders suddenly being imposed within the US would be when there are also families dispersed throughout the various states.

I've dabbled in the whole "'Appalachian' as identity" before, and what I learned, between trying to insist that in Pennsylvanian "Coal Country" and seeing the state of the Quebecois movement and communities descended from French settlers in general, is that underneath the WASP-dominated monoculture of US media, there really are enough quirks in different corners of the US that could be considered ethnic groups on their own, but white people cannot be trusted with the "right to self-determination license channeling historical political and economic grievances through an identitarian lens, even when they're true, are easily captured by Conservative/Reactionary narratives and repurposed in ways that just totally prevent people of any capability to have solidarity with one another.

Altogether, I think balkanization should be seen as an unnecessary disaster to be avoided, and to be actively fought against in the event it happens anyway. I think whatever Socialist Republic comes after the US, ideally, would do away with the States as they currently exist, but even while I'm sympathetic to the notion of replacing them with bioregions, exceptional care must be made in handling the cultural/ethnic implications of such a project.

The only nation i could see fully leaving the US after a major crisis would be the south or texas. Either the south would be a white ethonationalist dixieland or it would be a black ethnonationalist new afrika.
Or whatever that larp is called

>>2637151
>easily captured by Conservative/Reactionary narratives and repurposed in ways that just totally prevent people of any capability to have solidarity with one another.
Doesn't this happen all the time wrt Vermont secessionists/autonomy advocaters and even Cascadian stuff?

>>2636786
>Francia took several precautions against assassination. He would lock the palace doors himself, unroll the cigars that his sister made to ensure there was no poison, prepare his own yerba mate, and sleep with a pistol under his pillow. Even so, a maid tried to poison him with a piece of cake.[23] No one could come within six paces of him or even bear a cane near him. Whenever he would go out riding, he had all bushes and trees along the route uprooted so that assassins could not hide, all shutters had to be closed, and pedestrians had to prostrate before him as he passed.

Francia lived a spartan lifestyle, and apart from some books and furniture, his only possessions were a tobacco case and a pewter confectionery box.[26] Francia left the state treasury with at least twice as much money in it as when he took office, including 36,500 pesos of his unspent salary, the equivalent of several years' pay.

>The final chapter of Rengger & Longchamps' work published in English in 1827 describes details of his personal life. This work seems to have had great impact in the English-speaking world, for many of its claims and descriptions have been accepted and used in other works. Thus, White's fictional account of Francia relies heavily on snippets of the work (e.g., one sentence in a footnote dealing with a tailor and cloth becomes an almost tragi-comic scene in El Supremo). The work is cited by historians to this day, as one of the few personal accounts, even if biased against him.

Interesting guy

>>2636804
None of those are nearly as strong in the present day as the examples mentioned in >>2636629. You rarely hear someone invoke state/regional pride in modern American political discourse which is of course very hostile rn the way people in the 1850s did about "Yankees" and "Southrons".

Anyone else hate the Cascadian flag? The tree looks dumb, I wish it was simplified or removed or something pic related.

>>2637905
If anything its cities and metropolitan areas that modern americans feel regional pride for, like how people will use area codes to rep a certain region.

>>2637905
Texas is the only one repeatedly at the moment. But do take note we are in a rapidly declining US so expect more rogue governors to consolidate power in their states and roll out the state nationalism to split. Ron DeSantis could have done that. >>2638022 like 561 pretty much rep South Florida. A stable US = states stay. Unstable US = states want to leave