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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Can someone tell me about whether there are classes inside the proletariat other than the lumpenproletariat, the labor aristocracy, and the managerial class? Is there a pyramid for it? Is there a similar differentiation on the classes constituting the bourgeoisie? What'd the lower middle class be defined, as a term? Can someone tell me more about the view on the middle class in general?

File: 1768120756228.png (116.43 KB, 300x300, 1423013179759.png)

>whether there are classes inside the proletariat other than [classes that stand completely at odds with the proletariat]
how do people look at charts like OP and not just burst out laughing

>>2640293
They look cool

Astrology for multipolaroids

>>2640449
The multipolar world is already over doe

File: 1768161808963.mp4 (259.96 KB, 280x498, jingling.mp4)

>>2640365
>They look cool
this you?

File: 1768161962130.png (182.37 KB, 800x600, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2640291
>pic
>superstructural analysis passed off as marxism
oh no no no

>>2640928
I look like this and I act like this.


So, I'll answer this without the sarcasm of other anons.

1) The lumpenproletariat is not a subset of the proletariat. It is distinct. They do not sell their labor power. It refers to prostitutes and other criminals.

2) There are other classes outside of working class and capitalist class. The peasantry still exists in much of the third world. There's still aristocrats in England who live off of taxpayer dollars. Landlords are also a separate class. There's also "La Boheme" or artists who are too poor to be validly considered members of the petty-bourgeoisie.

3) The only really meaningful division within the working class is unionized and non-unionized. Not white collar and blue collar or tradesmen and office workers. It's how they are ORGANIZED that matters more so than what they do for work.

>>2642524
>The peasantry still exists in much of the third world
theyre wage workers lmfao peasantry isnt just when theres farms

>There's still aristocrats in England who live off of taxpayer dollars

theyre much closer to entertainers or tourist attractions than the aristocracy of old

>There's also "La Boheme" or artists who are too poor to be validly considered members of the petty-bourgeoisie.

there can be poor petit bourgeois lol

>The only really meaningful division within the working class is unionized and non-unionized

uh working class means proletarian, not just when you have a job or that would suddenly include CEOs, managers, etc

>Not white collar and blue collar or tradesmen and office workers. It's how they are ORGANIZED that matters more so than what they do for work.

lol youre very stupid if you believe educated professionals can be compared to the proletariat - the mass of immiserated reserveless propertyless workers

failing to compete with fellow petit bourgeois doesnt make you proletarian until after youre proletarianized, not during, not before, after

>>2642530
Doctors, lawyers, and office workers are proletarian. It's not limited to assembly line workers as you seem to believe.


And yes, there are still peasants in India and East asia. They are tied to land in the traditional feudal arrangement.

Marx himself differentiated between La Boheme and the Petit Bourgeois. It's a question of societal power.


Please don't leave ignorant comments like this in reply to mine!!

File: 1768245126021.png (490.02 KB, 449x401, 1660860187510.png)

>>2642551
>Please don't leave ignorant comments like this
LMFAO uygha youre a massive retard who believes there are proletarian neurosurgeons

File: 1768245335536.jpg (10.03 KB, 290x180, 1668632343359.jpg)

also the op pic is even more fucking retarded implying the proletariat doesnt do a heccin revolution just bc they have the Wrong ideas in their heads and does the typical amerilard narrative of "le 99% vs le 1%" bullshit

>>2642553
If the majority of their income comes from their wage, not their investments, they are.

Neurosurgeons can be fired, for instance if they were to grope a nurse. They do not have the same power as a capitalist.

I do not appreciate your rude tone, btw. But I'm not surprised since it's likely you're unemployed and unhappy with your life choices.

File: 1768245639628.jpg (101.08 KB, 1320x1135, retardd.jpg)

>>2642551
>>2642556
>there are still peasants in India and East asia. They are tied to land in the traditional feudal arrangement
lmao youre superimposing these categories wrongly to describe a bunch of shit hole farmers and herders using ethnic political favour to acquire privileges and access to land and markets to compete better. their aim is further commercialisation of their petty production, for profit, which makes it bourgeois, not ""feudal""

>it's likely you're unemployed

middle classer parasite projecting. CEOs can lose their jobs too, theyre working class!! theres a reason marx & engels constantly referred to workers as "reserveless" you ape

>>2642556
>Neurosurgeons can be fired, for instance if they were to grope a nurse. They do not have the same power as a capitalist.

Here's some class analysis from a Communist doctor regarding well paid medical professionals. I hope you find it interesting.

It's a 3 parter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJpnf9i1DjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eBv6tZShbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyvmnKmnvo

>>2640291
>Can someone tell me about whether there are classes inside the proletariat other than the lumpenproletariat, the labor aristocracy, and the managerial class?
In various particular conditions different sections of the working class differentiate and relate in different ways, or may not be proletarian at all. For instance the labor aristocracy presents very differently in a peripheral state like Sri Lanka compared to imperial core states like the US or France, where they are arguably closer to the petty bourgeoisie than any real working class and more numerous proportionally than in the periphery. For another example: in Haiti, the workers within Port au Prince are distinct from workers everywhere else in the country due to the economic structure of the country and politically dominate oftentimes to the detriment of other workers and the rural peasantry. Their vacillation due to extractive relations with the countryside makes them an unreliable social base even for reformism, as we saw with Aristide. Nobody will ever be able to genuinely hand you a universal diagram of what the working classes are in the way you're asking, because that's not how that works. The proletariat is defined by concrete economic relations that must be analyzed in each context, down to the local level you're at. This is why sharpening the blade of analysis is so important for each of us. I was tempted to write another "Boring." reply and move on, but genuinely discussions like this would be a lot more interesting if you actually attempted to present your own class analysis for others to critique.
>Is there a pyramid for it?
It's not a simple hierarchy, no. Class relations constantly shift based on economic conditions and social relations, and even acknowledging that, viewing one class as simply "above" another is an overly simplistic framework. The bourgeoisie dominates capitalist society, but why and how does it maintain this position? Not simply by propaganda and "ideological control", that's for sure. No regime exists that way. The proletariat globally is more numerous and exist at every point of production. Why are they not at the top of the hierarchy? Don't the majority rule?
>Is there a similar differentiation on the classes constituting the bourgeoisie?
The bourgeoisie is internally differentiated, yes. As to how it's differentiated, see the first paragraph of this post.
>What'd the lower middle class be defined, as a term? Can someone tell me more about the view on the middle class in general?
Here's where I think we're getting to the actual reason why you posted this absent of any class analysis of your own. You're looking for reassurance about your class position and relation to production, desperately hoping that someone will spoonfeed you a sound-enough excuse to uncritically ignore the "middle class'" relation to imperialism and production. "Middle class" is a bourgeois economist term lumping together various disparate sections of the upper working class and petty bourgeoisie along the lines of a tax bracket, rather than an actual class. Basically, it's not a term particularly useful to Marxism. Again, you're gonna have to do your own homework on this one. What is your concrete relationship to production? What do you own? What do you produce? If you or your parents own land, what is the relationship of land to production where you're at? Do you sell your labor-power, and if so are you the primary producer of value in the commodity you manufacture? If you sell your labor-power in a job outside commodity production (I'm a teacher, for example) what is the relation of that role to production and the state?

>>2640931
You know it doesn't really help to post this pic because the people you're criticizing don't understand the difference between these things. It's all just "capitalism" to them.

>>2640291
>pic
Do Marxxxists really believe this nonsense?

Prostitutes are proletarians

>>2642860
Wrong. Whores are not proletarian under Communist law because whores exist against Communist law and morality.
http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Law/2007-12/13/content_1384114.htm
Article 66 of Law of the People's Republic of China on Penalties for Administration of Public Security states A prostitute or a person who goes whoring shall be detained for not less than 10 days but not more than 15 days and may, in addition, be fined not more than 5,000 yuan; and if the circumstances are relatively minor, she or he shall be detained for not more than five days or be fined not more than 500 yuan. A person who, at a public place, touts for prostitution or invites another person for whoring shall be detained for not more than five days or be fined not more than 500 yuan.


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