Many men on the left and centre, in critiquing patriarchal norms, have gone further and made a point of rejecting aesthetic standards traditionally associated with masculinity. Over the past two to three decades, this rejection has cohered into a recognizable counter-aesthetic.
This set of aesthetic includes: talking in a nasally and whiny way, upward inflection, limbs flopping around, slouched stance, indesicive movements, intentional shabbiness in dress or over-attention to dress, over-qualification (or redditifcation) of speech (“I might be wrong but…”), distancing or discomfort with tools, mechinary, firearms, navigation, etc. A meme-word captures this aesthetic aptly, “soy.”
Time to change course. It’s one thing to know to not harm women, it’s another to not have a firm handshake.
>activism
masc4masc thread take it to /lgbt/ buddy
The world needs more bullying, as this post aptly demonstrates.
Put on the sissy panties, chuddy
>>2642451Be the change you want to see in the world
What the world truly need is more homosexual men. Be it soy or non-soy
Why have you posted this in /leftypol/?
>>2642443Wrong.
Men are an unnecessary artifact to a more primitive state in our evolution.
Every man should be given finasteride and estradiol until his testosterone levels are near zero.
>>2642528based, thrvke and /thread
Haz is very feminine
>>2642537Preach, internet streamer is female gendered "job"
>>2642528>Men are an unnecessary artifact to a more primitive state in our evolution.Literally the opposite. Asexual reproduction came first, then the male evolved. Why do you think it is easier to transition from FtM than from MtF? Because males are the actualization of females, the next step Men don't get periods, are stronger and more attractive
When artificial wombs become a reality you will have no reason to exist and you (the remaining females) will be forcefully turned into men so we can have an all-male communist utopia
>>2642443Why'd you post haz if you're trying to promote masculinity?
>>2642520Yeah and Californians and Canadians are some of the most soy faggots you'll ever meet
>>2642451Herr Miller should have been crippled when he said you should intentionally litter in college.
>>2642443Leftists were retarded on this, Masculinity was obviously created to benefit men, abolishing masculinity was the wrong choice, we should have abolished feminity, women should be masculine not men feminine, because feminity was invented to subjugate women.
All you have to look is the current world, when leftists were masculine they were strong and powerfull, nowadays, they're feminine, and therefore weak and submissive.
Abolish feminity and make women masculine, not coquettes and make everyone grow a pair, for a true revolutionnary is stoic.
>>2642454only coherent post in the entire thread
>there is nothing wrong in being manlysure
>Many men on the left and centre, in critiquing patriarchal norms, have gone further and made a point of rejecting aesthetic standards traditionally associated with masculinity. Over the past two to three decades, this rejection has cohered into a recognizable counter-aesthetic.aesthetics are largely irrelevant. They are just ornamentation intended to speed up communication of one's values and class interests a little but. But more often than not they miscommunicate or break down communication. Marx already critiqued the essence of political aesthetics and LARP in Ch1 of 18th Brumaire (
emphasis mine):
<Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language. Thus Luther put on the mask of the Apostle Paul, the Revolution of 1789-1814 draped itself alternately in the guise of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire, and the Revolution of 1848 knew nothing better to do than to parody, now 1789, now the revolutionary tradition of 1793-95. In like manner, the beginner who has learned a new language always translates it back into his mother tongue, but he assimilates the spirit of the new language and expresses himself freely in it only when he moves in it without recalling the old and when he forgets his native tongue.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/18th-brumaire/ch01.htm
>This set of aesthetic includes: talking in a nasally and whiny way, upward inflection, limbs flopping around, slouched stance, indesicive movements, intentional shabbiness in dress or over-attention to dress, over-qualification (or redditifcation) of speech (“I might be wrong but…”), distancing or discomfort with tools, mechinary, firearms, navigation, etc. A meme-word captures this aesthetic aptly, “soy.”
>Time to change course. It’s one thing to know to not harm women, it’s another to not have a firm handshake.It's strategically useful (I no longer say "good" if I can help it) to be healthy, to have correct posture, to eat enough but not too much, to avoid alcohol and drugs, to not be slovenly, to be disciplined etc. But it's important alse to remember that Communists are here to be the vanguard of the proletariat, who are immiserated, and therefore, often unhealthy, uneducated, undisciplined, unclean, and un"masculine" because they come from broken families and have been deprived of many things. INB4 you say I am describing lumpen and not proletariat. As class struggle intensifies many former petty bourgeoisie fall into the proletariat, and many proletariat become homeless and lumpen. Downward mobility intensifies with class struggle.
>>2642560>Leftists were retarded on this, Masculinity was obviously created to benefit men, abolishing masculinity was the wrong choice, we should have abolished feminity, women should be masculine not men feminine, because feminity was invented to subjugate women.Well the way this dialectic evolved, it actually started out the way you described. In the 19th century it was unheard of for women to dress like men, but in the early 20th century women increasingly ditched big dresses and started wearing pants and wearing their hair shorter. By WW2 you had mascots like Rosie The Riverter which would have been unthinkable in 1890. Then women's liberation bourgeoisiefied itself and women started getting "feminized" versions of masculine clothing, they started mixing historically "feminine" coded things like makeup with historically "masculine" coded things like denim or business suits. Now you have "feminine" business suits which a man would never wear, but which nevertheless would have been transgressive in 1950 or unthinkable in 1940. Once women masculinized, they re-feminized their own masculinization, and then men started feminizing. Increasingly the discourse changed from abolishing patriarchy to abolishing gendered stereotypes in general, to letting people craft their own subjective gender identity.
Being overly concerned about aesthetics is not very manly, OP
>>2642443ok sure but why did you use a pic of
that guy?
>>2642597Women suits are so ugly omfg. Why can't they wear a tie?
>>2642604But if they wore a tie they couldn't leave their top unbuttoned.
>>2642520>upward infelctionThat's only the first stage. Men will start vocal frying next.
I know it's bait cause you put Haz instead of Hasan. And I'm bait too.
>>2642616>leave their top unbuttonedwhy would they do it? It is ugly in both men and women
>>2642683Sorry, I didn't add anything useful because I am not informed enough on the topic, but I liked what you wrote. Bourgeois feminism really is terrible (porn/prostitution/"sex work" is empowering, femininity used to sell more products, etc).
What I can add is that I remember someone mentioning that German women preferred to be called Arbeiter (Worker) rather than Arbeiterin (feminine suffix) because they felt it was patronizing or something like that. I assume it was similar to what you say.
Now in my language some feminists push for creating the explicit feminine version of words that etymologically shouldn't have an overt feminine. Most of these words coincidentally refer to powerful and political/bourgeois professions (more female CEOs!).
>>2642689 (me)
>>2642597Do you have any source to read on the matter?
>>2642597Yeah, you're writing it better then I did, but it never sat right with me that feminists denounce the patriarchy and claim that men are inherently privileged, while also claiming that masculinity is "toxic" and that femininity was superior, if it was superior then why is there a patriarchy ? Nowadays most feminists just treat women are inherently inferior and must be protected at all cost from evil men who want to hurt them, I get where it comes from, but it just feels like a return to victorian ideas about gender, I feel like a much better message is that despite what women suffer they'll stay strong and fight for what is right, I think it's an issue with leftist movements in general nowadays, where it's more about being the victim and needing protections rather then for the actual issue to be abolished.
>>2642693>feminists denounce the patriarchy and claim that men are inherently privileged, while also claiming that masculinity is "toxic" and that femininity was superior, if it was superior then why is there a patriarchyI think it is in the same way that socialism is superior but we do not have worldwide socialism yet. Also throw a bit of idealism/moralism about what is "good", for them aggression and force are bad qualities (they are pacifist liberals who would oppose revolution for it being violent), so masculinity is worse.
This is a siberia thread.
>>2642700Jannies have died from eating too much sweets during Christmas
It’s okay to be anything other than a chauvinist, that’s it
>>2642689They have a similar thing in French, I don't mind adding feminine versions to words because it kinda helps make it clearer in gendered languages, but in French when you have a mix of men and women you use the masculine pural, some feminists don't like that so they they add a dot at the end of words, you end with sentences like that "Les travailleur.euse sont Heureux.se.s" It just looks retarded and honestly, if women's only problem was grammar rules, I think feminism's quest would be achived (not that it is for that matter)
>>2642698The main difference with Patriarchy is that it dates back since ancient times and is mostly viewed only as a system of oppression, wheras any serious maxist will tell you that capitalism is a step toward socialism and communism.
Obviously the marxist interpretation is that patriarchy is a result, not of an inner difference between men and women in terms of brain, but as a result of the physical biological difference between men and women, as industrialisation and capitalism made this difference quasi-meaningless, women were able to be equal to men in terms of laws and even culturally, this is also why less industrialised and less developped societies are generally more sexist then the West. Patriarchy was not a universal system of oppression but a system that made sense for a context, even the Term patriarchy is outdated, Fathers aren't at the center of neither men nor women's lives anymore.
>>2642443Conventional masculinity is obviously stupid and low status. The only thing worse than being soy is being some masculine LARPer fantasising about defending his strip mall with violence.
The most pathetic loser transsexual furry on kiwifarms is less embarrassing than any man who buys this-or-that masculine supplement from a right wing grifter. I mean, it's not even a close run thing.
>>2642681>It is ugly in both men and womenWrong, men and women should both show off their chests as nature intended. It will motivate everyone to be healthy and fit. We need to RETVRN to ancient Egyptian and Minoan clothing for the good of humanity.
>>2642443Why did you post a 5.5 woman tho?
>>2642730Burkas are the true progressive fashion
thats cool and all but Haz is a complete gayboy
>>2642691No, sorry, I admittedly was just posting from memory and experience
>>2642693> think it's an issue with leftist movements in general nowadays, where it's more about being the victim and needing protections rather then for the actual issue to be abolished.that's just reformism/opportunism: begging the bourgeoisie for "protections" that can be withdrawn by them at a later date.
>>2642443>intentional shabbiness in dress or over-attention to dress"Intentional shabbiness in dress" sounds more masculine to me. A lot of this is culturally coded though.
>>2642537>Haz is very feminine>>2642538>Preach, internet streamer is female gendered "job"Facts. "Soft skills." Communication skills.
>>2642443>rejecting aesthetic standards traditionally associated with masculinityI want to go back to this. Like the fact that you're even talking about "aesthetic standards" is tricky because masculinity is supposed to "seem" natural. It's, like, defined by its lack of an aesthetic standard or a negation of it. Plain clothes, unkempt hair. Anyways here's an anarchist but this is more of less of what I think of in terms of traditional masculinity in my own context. No frills or makeup.
In fact these traditional heterosexuality is just as much of a performance as homosexuality as the ways of walking and talking, dressing and sitting, are things boys learn in their adolescence. (A point this guy has made.)
>>2642789To expand on this, all socialists should project power. There is no reason to misinterpret it as 'masculine' to do so.
Yes, we should practice visual cues associated with strength, like an upright posture, eye contact, a straight arm when raising a fist in salute, and calm decisive movement. Know how to be attractive; politcally.
Yes, we should learn to convey confidence (not arrogance) in our rhetoric. Know how to earn trust with more than just fact.
Yes, the limp-wristed, tantrum fan Haz does not project such power.
>>2642795>masculinity is supposed to "seem" natural.>Plain clothes>No frills or makeup.Clothes before agriculture was more simple. Mostly draped animal furs and skins that later became fitted. Some feathers, shells and shinny stones for decoration. There was no "makeup" beyond colored muds found on the ground.
Seems a lot of femininity is associated with excess extravagance from wealth. Probably because upper class women and men would not need to hunt or farm themselves and hang out in a palace. But even then there was pressure for upper class men to look like they can fight, meaning their clothes will look more practical despite not needed to. On the other hand there was no such pressure for upper class women's clothing.
>>2642789tbf plenty of feminists make arguments directly connecting power symbols with masculinity. Swords, spears, guns and tall buildings are all phallic shaped!
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