It becomes imperative for the various strains of infantile left-deviationists (be they the Bordigist armchairs, the dumpster-diving anarchists, or the idealistic voluntarists still clinging to the metaphysics of spontaneity) to immediately confront the sheer magnitude of their historical illiteracy and sign the attached document with the requisite humility.
It is truly fascinating to watch you petty-bourgeois moralists clutch your pearls over actually existing socialism, entirely ignoring that your axioms are derived purely from liberal ideology and fail to account for the material conditions of a besieged proletarian dictatorship attempting to industrialize a plow-based feudal economy into a nuclear superpower in two decades while facing the combined hostility of the entire capitalist world. This dialectic extends inexorably to the PRC as well; for as it has been aptly noted, the productive forces necessary to defend a revolution must be equal to the productive forces attacking it.
Perhaps if you had actually engaged with Capital instead of merely skimming the back cover of The Conquest of Bread or watching CIA-funded video essays, you would comprehend that a revolution is largely the most organized, centralized, and terrifying thing there is. All that crying about "Red Fascism" because the Soviets didn't immediately dissolve the state apparatus while the Wehrmacht was knocking on the door constitutes a counter-revolutionary betrayal of the proletariat.
So please, put down whatever anarchist, leftcom, or revisionist slop you are currently consuming, stop fetishizing failure, and recognize that your "pure" socialism is a phantom; the Real exists only as the profane, this-worldly, dirty-Jewish muck of class struggle. Formally apologize to the General Secretary for your embarrassing lack of theoretical rigor NOW.
>>2647953I'm reaching the point where I unironically think that you people get sexual pleasure from this.
>>2647953>All that crying about "Red Fascism" because the Soviets didn't immediately dissolve the state apparatus while the Wehrmacht was knocking on the door constitutes a counter-revolutionary betrayal of the proletariat.I'd apologize in tears, but surely Comrade Stalin and All Union Communist Party has to apologize as well! For so many tragedies occured for both party members and many young minds in the high command.
Why did they purge most-sparking souls in their high command? Why did they allow old minds like Kulik and Budyonny to dictate Red Army policies? Why did the Red Army suffered big losses for a tiny ground in the Winter War ( and the original goal was spreading the revolution there! ) only to be attacked by Finland again with more losses!
If there is a betrayal to the Red Army heroes who lost their lives and faced deep aches and sorrow throughout, it came from the People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs (NKVD) and their fabrications.
Marshall Tukhachevsky, Marshall Blyuker, Commander Rokossovsky (arrested) and many ones were crushed in the name of a false, silly premise of being counter-revolutionary saboteurs or foreign agents.
My armchair view is that if you're to have actual contact with normie westoids you more or less need to reject holodomor, the four pests campaign, cambodian genocide, etc. outright. Any attempt even to contextualize would result in you being painted as a closeted supporter for these actions and policies - or genocide. The obvious approach to AES for any morally consistent actor is to disaggregate them viewing these points of contention, and others as separate from the industrial achievements, inequality reduction, workers rights, etc. Really I doubt there's any other way.
Add to this that we know nationalized companies can produce more efficient allocation in natural monopolies, and can correctly compensate for depreciation of natural resources, or can better serve social functions - especially housing, healthcare, and schooling, and building industrial expertise. Plus an internationalist foreign policy, and it perhaps until recently would have gone without saying, a cross-ethnic appeal. That would be a functioning (somewhat radical) social democrat party!
>>2648164if there in good faith you can actually contextualize by comparing it the problems of the American and French Revolutions and point out how the first capitalist and first socialist revolutions actually had similar issues.
>>2648131
In general, making absolutist statements about what can and can't work in terms of ideology is a very undialectical way of thinking. Whether something works or not is contingent on time and place, contingent on material conditions.
>>2648167>You can actually contextualize by comparing it the problems of the American and French RevolutionsI'm not sure I can convince you otherwise, especially if you have experience actually doing this. What are the comparable events in American and French history though? The Native American Genocide is what comes to my mind, but I think it's too distant to be useful, that is there's no feeling of "I did this and it was right" as there once might have been to make a comparable claim.
My opinion is rather irrelevant on this, but I hold the view that hypocrisy isn't valuable for making moral claims, that a second evil can't make a right. Im90% sure the USSR was chorrupt because of challenges un middle managment beaurocracy, and not dictstorships
>It becomes imperative for the various strains of (ultra obscure sectarianism no one cares about) heresy…Have you considered joining a seminary or becoming a preacher instead?
>>2647989You're not wrong. See jouissance and obscene enjoyment.
>>2648183>Tambov Rebellion<Whiskey Rebellion>what happened to all the old bolshleviks?<Thermidorian reaction>Pro-batista cubans and the bay of pigs<loyalists flee to canada, fight in war of 1812>Sanctions used as economic warfare<Absolutist mercantilism isolating US economically(France despite giving direct military aid in the revolution refused any free trade agreements partially out of fear of the spread of republicanism)>centrist with strongman image who doesn't really care abt ideological infighting amongst the revolutionaries and just keeping the State together(Joseph Stalin)<centrist with strongman image who doesn't really care abt ideological infighting amongst the revolutionaries and just keeping the State together(George Washington)>"Communism can only work on a small scale"-Random Capitalist<"Republicanism can only work on a small scale"-Random NobleA lot of the issues your typical well meaning American liberal will bring up about past socialist revolutions were actually things the USA had to deal with as well. I agree that just pointing fingers at the other guys State Violence isn't enough, my goal to show how most of problems they may have with socialism are moreso general issues with civil wars and revolution. Then pose the question if they think just because liberal capitalist republics weren't perfect Utopias at first(most didn't even have universal suffrage at first ffs) does that feudalism is superior? The idea is too just use the same standard used on the American/French revolutions on the ones that happened afterwards.
>>2648272Freud has colonized the brains of liberals so much that they can't stop imagining their intetlocutors masturbating
It's almost like they get sexual pleasure from it
i think the only one sincerely fetishizing failure are the stalinoids, where is the USSR now? in history books and in the minds of old men, every successful "AES" state has survived precisely through becoming another ideology with a socialist graft
>>2648889I also forgot Shays Rebellion and the Kronstandt Rebellion both being incidents where government troops put down a rebellion started by people who fought in the revolution.
>>2648889No doubt revolutions are messy, and often have the behaviors of actors you list, there could be something to be gained here because Americans still have pride in their revolution. You can still come up with some struggles with AES which are difficult to contextualize for modern westerners: holodomore, gulags, the four pests campaigns, and cambodian genocide - and that you probably shouldn't. You need some solution to the "Era of Stagnation" so that should be contextualized - and better yet addressed by improved planning or market mechanisms.
>>2647953Hail Stalin, Sakai and Israel. Long live national liberation!!
>>2649559You are stalinist.
>engaged with Capital
Nothing is written in capital about the revolution thovghbeit
>>2647953Stalin was great! I think he deserves lots of awards!
<First leader of a nation state to recognise Israel award<Number one supporter in the UN for the partition of Palestine award<Biggest supplier of military arms to Israel during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war award<Biggest supplier of oil, grain, manganese, copper, lumber, rubber, and cotton the Nazis award<Helped the Nazis beat the blockades award<Secretly trained the Nazi Reichswehr award<Allowed the Nazis to carve up Poland award <Allowed the Nazis to kill your own son award<Second largest producer of commodities after the USA award<No plans to transition away from commodity production award<Biggest killer of the Old Bolsheviks and Marxist theorists award<Total abandonment of internationalism for nationalism awardWhat a guy!!! I'm sure just 100 more years of MLs doing cultish hero worship towards him and we'll really finally achieve Communism!!!!
>>2648183The War in the Vendée is a pretty good example of how early liberal revolutions often got bogged down in horrific bloodshed against domestic counterrevolutionaries.
>>2648911And they're both examples of reactionary rebellions principally celebrated by the white petty bourgeoisie/labor aristocracy today. Like lmao Shay's little rebellion was a bunch of settler proto-libertarians who didn't wanna pay muh ebil taxes and Kronstadt is the same old liberal rehash of "but muh multi-party democracy!" Boo hoo. Again, it's telling that all y'all ever wanna do is rehash long-settled arguments. Engaging with the vital and alive revolution around the world must be terrifying. Best stick to high school social studies and tailing labor aristocrat anxieties.
>>2649705good bait, 7/10 almost got me
>>2649657nazi revisionist history, an absurd misinterpretation of molotov-ribbentrop among other historical events.
>>2649705why is a leftist parroting easily debunked 'muh gulag USSR slavery totalitarian' propaganda? read parenti you actual retard.
>>2649813>read parenti you actual retard.Huge disappointnent to me after everyone here recommended him.
>>2649809>Never criticise Stalin or you're a Nazi!!Until you infantile MLs stop your unmarxist & unscientific hero worship and history denial there's no reason to engage with you seriously.
There's a reason you can't actually provide any evidence or points to debunk my post.
Because anyone can look at the fucking records and see for a fact how much of a given material Stalin supplied to the Nazis prior to WW2.
Anyone can look at the records on Stalin's support for and recognition of Israel. He was the very FIRST person of all the world's national leaders to recognise Israel.
There's also a reason all MList states have collapsed or adopted state capitalism. Maybe stop being a childish ideologue and ponder about that.
>>2649705>The "economic miracle" under Stalin was mostly a paper tiger created by terror. Then how did the USSR out-produce Germany?
>Slavery based economic systems are extremely inefficient. People work only to stay alive while doing the bare minimum.Do you unironically believe that everybody was threatened with constant execution in the USSR if they didn't work hard enough? You're a grown adult who thinks this?
>>2649818parenti is for people who think they can defeat us imperialism by posting online
>>2649899>Because anyone can look at the fucking records and see for a fact how much of a given material Stalin supplied to the Nazis prior to WW2. Then what happened?
>>2649907Being against the Nazis during WW2 doesn't mean that events prior to WW2 didn't happen or are magically irrelevant.
Nice attempt to move the goalposts and tacit admission that your initial post was BS tho.
>>2649919>Being against the Nazis during WW2 doesn't mean that events prior to WW2 didn't happen or are magically irrelevant.Events before WW2 like trying to form an anti-Nazi alliance, offering to send troops to prevent the annexation of Czechoslovakia, waging a proxy war against them in Spain? Your "critique" ignores literally everything that happened before and after 1939-1940. It's blatantly obvious that the USSR did far more to frustrate the Nazis and bring about their downfall than they did to help them.
>>2649928Sure, nobody is claiming the USSR was literally the Nazis or didn't do the things you mentioned.
But MLoids denying the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact or 1940 German-Soviet Commercial Agreement ever happened and calling it Nazi propaganda to mention them just reads as childish cope in defence of their hero worship.
>>2649946It's not that it didn't happen, it's just irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and whining about it serves no purpose other than to demonize the USSR for something that proved to be inconsequential in the long term.
lol hitler lost
>>2649905Im more interested in socialism.
>>2649919organization is a spectrum
between a book club
and a proletarian
dictatorship
you can barely
manage to flip the pages of a book
yet you think
you can
critique
the man of steel
on state policy
the audacity - rupi karl
>>2649919<Indeed, it would be ridiculous and stupid to close our eyes to the capitalist encirclement and to think that our external enemies, the fascists, for example, will not, if the opportunity arises, make an attempt at a military attack upon the U.S.S.R. Only blind braggarts or masked enemies who desire to lull the vigilance of our people can think like that.What did stalin mean by this in 1938?
>>26489424 Pests you might able too since most countries in the world have examples of well-meaning agricultural/land-use policies that were completely unsustainable and backfired. I actually don't know much about the so-called "Era of Stagnation" in the USSR I'll have to read some more
>>2649682I never made an actual value judgement on if they were a good or bad thing anon, all I said is most of things libs bring up as somesort of gotcha are also things that they did during there own revolutions and gave many examples. Your the one who decided to try and make it into an argument for whatever reason when at no point did I say any of the shit your complaining about.
>>2649902No I dont believe in your strawmen but I do believe that stalinism was a complete abomination of socialism where workers had close to zero control of the state or the MoP.
>>2650002Well you'd be wrong then since even in the absence of formal democratic mechanisms a state can have democratic content if it has a low degree of antagonism between those running the state and the broad mass of the population. The USSR had this quality which is why it saw to the basic needs of all its citizens, maximized social mobility and individual self-actualization, and had far less economic inequality than any capitalist state. Not to mention the pivotal role it played in advancing the objectively necessary revolutionary tasks of the 20th century. If your only concern is whether it met some abstract standard of formal democracy then you lack the conceptual tools to properly assess its revolutionary character.
>>2650021>if it has a low degree of antagonism between those running the state and the broad mass of the population.What a joke. Workers had to trust this new elite to have their best interests in mind instead of their own interest. Just a new ruling class replacing the old.
>I AM THE BIG BOY POSTER, I HAVE SOLVED THEORY BY GETTING MAD ONLINE
>>2650032They don't have to trust anything. It's a question of whether the relations of production can accommodate mutually beneficial relations between different segments of the population. In the USSR they could, in capitalist countries they cannot. Ergo the USSR is more democratic in content than the average capitalist country and represented an important step towards proletarian democracy even if it was imperfect. To say that they just "replaced one class with another" ignores the fact that bureaucrats aren't a class, and even if they were this would be a class with an entirely different relationship to the proletariat as compared to capitalists.
>>2648087LMAO look at the OP not replying to this one
>>2649559THIS!
One of the most formative Marxist text I ever read. Short to. Could carry a copy of dozens to just hand out whenever a comrade says something fucking cringe (happens constantly)
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