/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2665772
>Conservatives are disingenuous as fuck, but leftists are almost detached.

From personal experience it seems almost generational. Like most of the older comrades I've met have been encouraging and really friendly, helps that a lot of them have families and are grandparents. Younger ones it definitely feels like they're waiting for a slip up to berate you or just completely indifferent to whatever work you do.

>>2665782
Isn't the premise behind mutual aid that it's… well, mutual?

Okay, enough snark, allow me to explain a little more. No one is saying everything should be "transactional" including empathy, but the difference is that when it comes to things like charitable giving, there's usually at least something to keep you going: someone saying thank you, someone letting you know you made their day, so on. Say you decide to shovel snow for your neighbors one day, just to help them out: if they don't so much as say "thank you" then you'll feel less of a reason, I imagine, to do it in the future. If you decide that you aren't going to shovel snow for them and they're pounding on your door the next day saying "Excuse me but WHY aren't you shoveling snow out of my driveway?" You'll likely think they're entitled.

So yeah, in that particular example the dude "stopped caring" and got rewarded for it, but if that prior sense of "caring" was just individualized and he's doesn't see even an acknowledgement of that "caring" then there's a chance he'll just say "well they only actually give a fuck when I stop doing shit for them".

There's also, I think, a profound lack of grace in some left wing spaces. I said before that younger leftists often feel like they're waiting for you to slip up just to rake you over the coals for it, an example that comes to mind is one of my old coworkers was involved in some left wing orgs like the SRA and the like. Around COVID he became a kind of Vaccine Skeptic, yes I personally think that's a silly position but I didn't hold it against him. The other people in the org, though? People he knew for years and worked with? It was just instant "Well you're a piece of shit, don't talk to me ever again." He wasn't pushing it, I told him straight up I could respect his decision while getting vaccinated myself, but as soon as he bought into Vaccine Skepticism he was basically persona-non-grata among his former comrades, and I could tell it really hurt him.

>>2666849
I'm surprised to see the "Catholic Church Infiltration" shtick get mentioned on here as often as it does but speaking as a Catholic I can say it almost certainly never happened and is more or less a John Birch style mental illness. There were Catholic clergy that skirted right up to the edge of Communism, with a few wholeheartedly embracing it: Camilo Torres Restrepo for example was a Revolutionary Guerilla and a Catholic Priest who was later laicized (at his own request, mind you) but continued preaching a doctrinal fusion of radical socialism and Catholicism (one of his quotes was, to paraphrase, "Jesus would be a guerilla") and stuff like liberation theology, but there's very little evidence that the church was "infiltrated" with Communists going through seminary and becoming Priests.

It partly, I think, has to do with Fulton Sheen and the culture of The Church at the time. If I remember right he was something of Bella Dodd's sponsor (and also helped convert her) and he was a committed anti-communist. Though to be fair the Catholic Church's position on Communism at the time was in part motivated by repression against Priests during the Spanish Civil War (this is what got Tolkien to support the Nationalists' as well, IIRC) and internal struggles within the Church. Sheen himself had a quiet struggle with a cardinal over the appropriation of charitable funds (to Sheen's credit it seems he was in the right here) and both the reform process of Vatican II and the discussions leading up to it likely caused some psychic distress in conservative elements of the Catholic world.

I mean it's hard to describe how revolutionary Vatican II was at the time, it completely changed centuries of dogma and led to a minor schism with the Sedevacantists. And in periods of immense turmoil, its common to blame some "secretive" group behind it all: Masons, Communists, Jews, what have you. Communists became the perfect scapegoat for why the Church stopped speaking Latin and changed so many elements of Mass. In much the same way that "modern audiences" has become a term of scorn among right wing media consumers, reform in the name of modernism similarly became the conspiratorial scheme of some secretive cabal of Communists rather than an attempt to survive into the coming centuries.

>>2666897
>There's also, I think, a profound lack of grace in some left wing spaces. I said before that younger leftists often feel like they're waiting for you to slip up just to rake you over the coals for it,

Keep in mind, a lot of younger people go into far-left spaces because they have a lot of trauma in their lives, like they’re queer and faded a lot of queerphobia growing up, or they’re autistic or whatever and faced a lot of harsh judgement from others including bullying. Having trauma causes you to develop a highly authoritarian personality. So, these types of people will claim to be triggered by every single little thing and berate the fuck out of anyone who isn’t morally perfect in their eyes. Plus, the culture of having a lot of marginalized identity groups in your space creates a lot of hidden tensions (walking ouyghshells) since you don’t always know when your words or behaviours will be interpreted as oppressive or exclusionary.

>>2666790
>looks at her profile
>is clearly exploiting her baby son for views and engagement
I fucking hate momfluencers.

>>2666897
think we need communist fiction aka fairy tales and myths. like we know theyre myths and anyone can contribute. idk.

>>2666897
>If I remember right he was something of Bella Dodd's sponsor (and also helped convert her) and he was a committed anti-communist.
This is exactly what happened. Sheen was part of a Catholic anti-communist network that specifically sought out former communists to convert them to Catholicism and get them to snitch.

>>2666790
Whittaker Chambers’ great-granddaughter

>>2666979
Gen Alphas and Gen Betas are going to have such a warped understanding of privacy.

>>2667390
Fucking KEK!

>>2649015
>neocons like Irving Kristol,
Didn't Maupin claim the neocons were just Trotskyists on the payroll of the Congress for Cultural Freedom?

>>2667390
Stalin's granddaughter.

Nina Power was a leftist intellectual who is now a conservative. She's a friend-of-the-friend so this is personal.

>>2666790
>>2666849
I might DM her and ask.

I'm petty bourgeois but I became commie (anarcho-syndicalist / council communist, tankies will probably say that doesn't count tho). As for right wing grifters rarely becoming commie, well that's because that is their whole schtick, you generally don't have anything to gain by being commie as a PR stunt and if you're haute bourgeois you may as well be apolitical because it would be impossible to relate to the masses.

>>2664792
One thing I will say about people in anarchist spaces is how many of them seem to have narcissistic mothers. Many times they’ll say they became anarchists largely because they were fed up at how many expectations their moms placed on them and how their anger towards their mothers were the first step in them questioning hierarchical authority. It makes sense then that their mothers’ narcissistic tendencies would rub off on them.

>>2670035
The family dynamic is usually narc mother + socially inept father. No idea why so many socially inept douchebags are attracted to narcissists.

>>2670035
its funny that you mention narcissistic parents since my father allegedly exhibited NPD characteristics(ofc this is just other family members with no medical knowledge making these allegations) and I was a self-identified AnCom throughout high school until getting some more life experience and reading some more theory. I could definitely see narcissistic helicopter parents causing Anarchism to have some more appeal to there kids but what really set me down the path of anarchism and marxism was being really into the environment and realizing a healthy ecosystem and "healthy" capitalist economy are incompatible with one another. That being said I haven't really organized in anarchist spaces so I can't really speak on them sharing traits with their Nmoms.

>>2664792
>I get the impression many of these Dodd and Horowitz types are the same people that engage in Sealioning at every function they appear at and were basically the Leninhats of there org until interpersonal drama causes them to denounce the entire movement for not glazing them enough.
Yes, they're usually the overly self-righteous ones who feel entitled to overstep/violate the boundaries of others on the basis of some "justice sensitivity" bullshit, then when comrades get sick of them they jump into another group.

My favs are the opposite.

>>2651578
>Bella Dodd was a validation junkie, not unlike most of those insecure girls on Tumblr. She was an Italian immigrant who always felt out-of-place, joined CPUSA because she thought communism would help America, and became a successful labour organizer in the party doing legal work for unions. Then, after she got purged for Browderism, she became a born-again Catholic thanks to Fulton Sheen and started snitching on everyone in CPUSA thinking she'd be loved as an "American hero" if she did so.

>Don't know anything about Budenz except Fulton Sheen converted him and his wife to Catholicism and got them to rat people out too.
why is catholicism so attractive to right wingers

>>2676688
In the cases of Budenz and Dodd, they were brought into the Catholic Church by Fulton Sheen, who was connected to Catholic anti-communist groups.

>>2660419
Black activists are turning on immigrants now too.

>>2660419
I disagree with your statement that opposing ICE has nothing to do with the interest of black people but this is largely correct. Libleft coalition politics want to pursue every single goal they have, forcing every single member to participate, and in the end accomplishing nothing. I've ppsted here about how there is a huge pushback from NY Muslims against trans activism in the left, and that is one; many black people don't vibes with Levantines since Arabs control a lot of the stores in the hood and they associate pro Palestinian activism with these Arab storeowners and that is two. Many such examples abound too, and while today they are papered over because Trump is a common threat the moment we get a Dem presidency its all gonna erupt

>>2649015
>Whittaker Chambers, Bella Dodd, and Louis Budenz
>Irving Kristol, Norman Podhoretz, and David Horowitz
>Abby Johnson
I'm not going to armchair diagnose, but I'm certain most of these people had/have autism with PDA profile. David Horowitz, especially, strikes me as having had PDA autism.

>>2660419
>They ask why should they risk being attacked by ICE in order to save Somalis when the Somalis don’t reciprocate that same solidarity?
Somalis in Minneapolis are highly insular. It's not like they came out en masse during the George Floyd protests.

>>2679339
>many black people don't vibes with Levantines since Arabs control a lot of the stores in the hood and they associate pro Palestinian activism with these Arab storeowners and that is two
This is actually a huge problem in Detroit as well that people don't talk about. Detroit has a lot of Palestinian, Lebanese, Iraqi, and Yemeni immigrants who are notorious for running liquor stores and convenience stores in Black neighbourhoods (Detroit is 80% Black for what it's worth). A lot of Black Detroiters are saying these Arabs are stealing Black dollars and not doing anything for Blacks in return. It's identical to how Jews and Asians used to deliberately set up their businesses in Black areas back in the day, which was the main source of racial tensions between those groups. Kind of interesting how ethnic groups that are on the cusp of whiteness gain whiteness specifically through exploiting Blacks. Kind of like how the Irish in America became white once they all started becoming cops.

>>2668747
Is that the lady Maupin has the hate boner for?

>>2660419
>>2679298
/pol/ agitators

There’s no money in the left . But being a right wing grifter makes you a millionaire In a few years . Capitalists will throw money at you in massive donations . This is America it’s about business here

>>2652722
Chloe Cold detransitioned after she was diagnosed with autism and is now on a right-wing crusade to ban gender-affirming care for trans teens.

We don’t see anyone going to the left but liberals because as a 40 year communist.. the left fucking sucks ass and is dead in the water nobody wants to fight for petit bourgeois workers who choose fascism over whatever the left offers 100% of the time. Neoliberalism has defeated the left for now . We can’t seize any means because our means in the imperial core are in china and Mexico . All we do here is collect their surplus labor labor and delude our selves to think people will accept our outdated ideas of the 1930s like anarchism and 70s idipol crap . Just hope for collapse and new ideas will arises and the left will meet the moment

>>2684651
If you support long lived social structures e.g. how lindy it is then you should be a monarchist or anprim.

>>2651435
>welfare fraud
I wish the right would come up with a new lie. They've been on that one since the 80s.

>>2686205
Bro I don't care about trans issues and neither did Marx, this is really isn't a 'gotcha' because it has nothing to do with the left/right distinction in the organic sense, it's psy-op slop that is irrelevant to all but 1% of the population.

>>2686299
So trans comrades don’t matter?

Hate to say it, but I see why the political right is so appealing to disgruntled former leftists.

The left (at least, in the US) has no real political goals. It's confined to berating and cancelling each other over social media. And for what purpose? Weeding out oppressive behaviours? How does that lead us to accomplish our goals on a political level?

The right-wing, on the other hand, knows that it's creating a new world, a worse world, but that's how they want it. They remain politically-focused while the left only acts within the social realm.

>>2649015
Many of these people develop an inner "fuck you" towards their former comrades as well as towards the public at large. Think about how jaded even armchair activists get with the public for not striking, voting for SocDems, etc., while also being THE PERSON providing the ideological ammunition and fuel to the activist base.

>>2660419
>>2679339
>>2679498
I mean, a lot of this has to do with the issue of Black wealth and the fact Black folks feel like they can't get out of poverty because Black money doesn't stay with Black communities. A lot of Black nationalists will attack rich and even middle-class Blacks for having children with non-Black partners (usually white, Hispanic, or Pinoy) because the money won't be passed down to Black hands but mixed hands. Intergenerational wealth is something whites often take for granted whereas it's something Blacks consider crucial to the survival of their communities.

>>2649015
The right pays them or promises them immunity against being persecuted by the feds.

>>2649081
/thread

>>2652722
>It makes sense, then, that someone who was once a part of those highly authoritarian leftist spaces would end up falling into the authoritarian right
Not really. It would make more sense to seek out more libertarian spaces as a reaction.

>>2667390
>>2666790
How did you find them?

>>2699619
I found Bella Dodd’s great-grandniece from one of her mother’s Facebook posts where she said Bella Dodd was her great-aunt. I cyberstalked her from there and saw that her daughter is now an influencer. People need to be way more aware of how much info about themselves they put online.

>>2661687
See this is what people mean, like you can support Palestine without trying to connect two radically different issues, also the Palestinian resistence blueprint has been an objective failure more or less

>>2649156
>there was a trend of ex-Jacobins who flipped to the Holy Alliance against Napoleon
any specific examples of books about this?

This is precisely the trap that unfolds when one's praxis remains suspended in the realm of idealist abstraction rather than grounded materialist investigation. The settler colonial apparatus doesn't merely operate through the barrel of the gun, no it reproduces itself through the very same structural frameworks we deploy to critique it. Those who haven't undertaken the difficult work of excavating the material foundations of settler sovereignty the land-as-commodity, the juridical production of the Native and Black body as modern homo sacer, and the structural necessity of elimination for capital accumulation are susceptible to reactionary tendencies or grifts . Theres no shock they become susceptible to what I term reactionary interpellation. The far right doesn't contradict settler colonialism, you understand? It intensifies it, accelerates its contradictions, defends it. Without a grounded antagonistic positionality towards this, one's "radicalism" becomes mere aesthetic posturing, which won't hold up over the years.

Don't forget the identitarians, the liberal managers of white supremacy's symptoms. They treat race as cultural rather than structural, as discourse rather than as a relation to production. Their praxis inevitably gravitates toward the petite-bourgeois horizon because they've abandoned the class analytic that would reveal how white supremacy functions as a mode of colonial governance securing surplus populations and dividing the local proletariat.

Everyone here is saying MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY but the Occam's Razor answer is that the far right appeals, on a human level, to the same insecurities and frustrations as leftism. So, it's not weird at all to see a former anarchist become a fascist, a former Marxist-Leninist become a TradCath, you name it. I think it's weirder to see a former radical become a milquetoast liberal, like a former anarchist become a Republican.