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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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i find that a lot of leftist discourse is very idealistic, like "X won't exist in our perfect communist society so engaging with it is counter-revolutionary", ie "sex work won't exist, so there's no need to engage with it" or "small businesses won't exist so engaging with them is wrong" or "drugs will be banned under communism, so engaging with the people who consume them is wrong"

This makes for easy theory posting and internet debates, but is really bad for actually engaging in material real world praxis because we do not live under the society we want to create, and the time it will take to create the envisioned society is literally multiple lifetimes, ie even if revolution happened tomorrow, the task of creating the society we want doesn't end, if anything, that's when it really begins. it's this idea that communism is a static utopia that will mysteriously happen in the future. This line of thinking ignores that communism will emerge dialectically from the contradictions of capitalism. This utopianism is ultimately the very counter-revolutionary thought it claims to defend against.

my honest opinion is that engaging in utopianism is significantly easier than engaging in materialism, especially if one is constrained by their material conditions, or consumed by a sense of hopeless nihilism. I think that's also why I piss people off so much, because there's proof that I've been able to *something*, and any amount of *something* is more than nothing, and that's in spite of my own material conditions being well, poverty and struggle. Which means that someone who has more comfort, more resources, more stability should be able engage in praxis too, but the fear of action paralyzes. Praxis means working with imperfect allies, making tactical compromises, making mistakes, failing, being embarrassed, taking losses, trying new things, applying theory dialetically and getting dirty. Utopianism keeps your hands clean and your theory pure. People with clean hands are disgusted by people with dirty ones.

the only thing standing between the comfortable leftist and material praxis is their own choice.

i don't care about theoretical purity. i care about practical efficaciousness. good theory informs us about what practical action is most efficacious. no one today in the west has a good theory about what practical action is most effective at furthering the real movement. "engaging" (whatever that really means, could mean a lot of things, some of them quite unsavory) with petty bourgeois and lumpen economic enterprises could potentially be tactically advisable on a case by case basis. it is not advisable to make it a programmatic premise of a proletarian political project.

why do you talk about sex work that much, just curious

>>2657110
>no one today in the west has a good theory about what practical action is most effective at furthering the real movement
I would say marxists have plenty very good theory, where do you see gaps?

>>2657249
Considering his living situation soon that will be his job.

>>2657110
couldn't have said it better
>>2657263
>I would say marxists have plenty very good theory, where do you see gaps?
nta but significant lack of organization or even correspondence on a international level. local organizing is lacking as well, but that is easier to explain. lack of international correspondence - not so much. marx and engels organized the first internationale from an embryo which was just correspondence between the then-leaders of the movement, centralized in brussles. that, for example, is a signal of bad theory.

File: 1768942761533.jpeg (42.66 KB, 608x680, G-1fDIwWcAAsO_E.jpeg)

>>2657093
X wouldn't exist because a lot of people would be dead or financially cucked
I mean yeah, a lot of people do indeed do that. They sit there and cope with fantasies about a post Marxist society when they aren't even getting the free stuff here, now.

You don't have to engage with them. There's nothing stopping you from bullying them. Also it depends on your examples. Like
>Ie "sex work won't exist, so there's no need to engage with it"
This is basically a clever way of saying
>My name is Jason Unruhe. I'm a crybaby who can't handle being called reactionary for criticizing sex work. I could just double down and say the fact you can sell your pussy but noone wants to fuck my fat rolls that look like a vagina, let alone pay me for it, means you should either not be able to do it, it's illegal now (revisionism), you should in fact be forced to pay higher taxes and shamed for it and I get snap benefits (social democracy), or we just kill you. (Literally any other leftisim)
>I also am too white and too fragile to risk being labled a swerf which is relatively different from being a terf, but it puts me in a bad spot to have to explain the diff and I don't want too. Nor do I necessarily espouse either of those view points. Like maybe I just hate women, did you think of that? No you didn't. SYBAU
>But I'm Jason Unruhe, I can't just leave it at that. I gotta be dialectical…by not being dialectical and just observing my material conditions. My material conditions being I'm poor, I'm mad, and I hate you. Gibs me dats white boy.

File: 1768946679338.jpg (77.8 KB, 1168x657, conspiracykeanu.jpg)

What if there were anonymous shitposters on leftypol that did praxis
But didn't brag about it or ask for donations

>>2657346
Well let's face it man, there's only so many reasons you wouldn't
>You don't like attention and keep a low profile. Possibly autistic and prob aren't a serious threat to the system
>You're a pussy. You don't wanna risk being incriminated for wrong think let alone wrong action, thereby keep a low profile and while that might be smart short term, it also means you are the easiest to compromise

It is natural to the human condition to want benefit. Be it physical benefit of donations or higher yearnings like ego boosts and praise.

Pic very related because let's say you were face to face with this gorgeous bitch whose wrong about everything.
>She knows you steal from Target. Scalping those pokemon cards to sell as singles, free money for the revolution and by revolution I mean you can pay your bills
>Assuming she doesn't just scream to garner mob attention over what's barely a misdemeanor, she won't sleep with you at the very least
>Sad… That's prime rib cunny lost to ideology. Zizak/Jesus wept.
>You know what would make you feel better? A Paypal donation to the ACP, or your discord channel full of other nerds saying she's a libshit and all the other leftists have a septum theory of value and maybe one of them will suck your peepee
>I mean you could just lie but that doesn't mean you gonna impregnate. Lying will just guarantee she leaves you alone. IE you're the coward or the autist.
>To take the lie further just for her delightful loins would be a detriment to you because you can only lie for so long because holy shit she's dumb. You'll either break and punch her or end up lying to yourself and find yourself becoming the reactionary.
>What ever will you do Che Guevara?

They're probably feds trying to cripple the left by making it completely irrelevant and out of touch.

>>2657093
>the time it will take to create the envisioned society is literally multiple lifetimes, ie even if revolution happened tomorrow, the task of creating the society we want doesn't end, if anything, that's when it really begins
yes i keep telling that to the puritanical dumbasses on here. Let's read some theory that says the same thing:

<What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges.


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm


<Will it be possible for private property to be abolished at one stroke? No, no more than existing forces of production can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity.


Friedrich Engels, Principles of Communism, 1847

<To my mind, the so-called “socialist society” is not anything immutable. Like all other social formations, it should be conceived in a state of constant flux and change. Its crucial difference from the present order consists naturally in production organized on the basis of common ownership by the nation of all means of production. To begin this reorganization tomorrow, but performing it gradually, seems to me quite feasible. That our workers are capable of it is borne out by their many producer and consumer cooperatives which, whenever they're not deliberately ruined by the police, are equally well and far more honestly run than the bourgeois stock companies.


Engels, Letter to Otto Von Boenigk In Breslau, August 21, 1890

<Before the victory of the proletariat, reforms are a by product of the revolutionary class struggle. After the victory (while still remaining a “by-product” on an international scale) they are, in addition, for the country in which victory has been achieved, a necessary and legitimate breathing space when, after the utmost exertion of effort, it becomes obvious that sufficient strength is lacking for the revolutionary accomplishment of some transition or another.


Lenin, The Importance Of Gold Now And After The Complete Victory Of Socialism, November 5 1921

<We often say that our republic is a socialist one. Does this mean that we have already achieved socialism, done away with classes and abolished the state (for the achievement of socialism implies the withering away of the state)? Or does it mean that classes, the state, and so on, will still exist under socialism? Obviously not. Are we entitled in that case to call our republic a socialist one? Of course, we are. From what standpoint? From the standpoint of our determination and our readiness to achieve socialism, to do away with classes, etc.


Stalin, Reply to Kushytev, 1928

<Once power has been conquered, the task of construction, above all in economy, becomes posed as the key and, at the same time, the most difficult task. The solution of this task depends upon factors of different orders and varying scope: First, the level to which the productive forces have been developed and in particular the reciprocal relation between industry and agriculture. Second, the general cultural and organizational level of the working class which has conquered state power. Third, the political situation internationally and nationally, namely – whether the bourgeoisie has been defeated decisively or still continues to resist; whether foreign military interventions are underway; whether the technological intelligentsia engages in sabotage, and so forth.


Trotsky, The New Economic Policy of Soviet Russia and the Perspectives of the World Revolution, 1922

<It is absolutely impermissible to repeat such wrong ultra-Left polices towards the upper petty bourgeois and middle bourgeois sectors in the economy as our Party adopted during 1931-34 (unduly advanced labor conditions, excessive income tax rates, encroachment on the interests of industrialists and merchants during the land reform, and the adoption as a goal of the so-called "workers' welfare", which was a short-sighted and one-sided concept, instead of the goal of developing production, promoting economic prosperity, giving consideration to both public and private interests and benefiting both labor and capital). To repeat such mistakes would certainly damage the interests both of the working masses and of the new-democratic state.


Mao Zedong, The Present Situation and Our Tasks, 25th December, 1947.

<The present-day capitalist economy in China is a capitalist economy which for the most part is under the control of the People's Government and which is linked with the state-owned socialist economy in various forms and supervised by the workers. It is not an ordinary but a particular kind of capitalist economy, namely, a state-capitalist economy of a new type. It exists not chiefly to make profits for the capitalists but to meet the needs of the people and the state.


Mao Zedong, On State Capitalism, July 9th, 1953

<“I am convinced that more and more people will come to believe in Marxism, because it is a science. Using historical materialism, it has uncovered the laws governing the development of human society. Feudal society replaced slave society, capitalism supplanted feudalism, and, after a long time, socialism will necessarily supersede capitalism. This is an irreversible general trend of historical development, but the road has many twists and turns. Over the several centuries that it took for capitalism to replace feudalism, how many times were monarchies restored! So, in a sense, temporary restorations are usual and can hardly be avoided. Some countries have suffered major setbacks, and socialism appears to have been weakened. But the people have been tempered by the setbacks and have drawn lessons from them, and that will make socialism develop in a healthier direction. So don't panic, don't think that Marxism has disappeared, that it's not useful any more and that it has been defeated. Nothing of the sort!”


Deng Xiaoping, Excerpts From Talks Given In Wuchang, Shenzhen, Zhuhai And Shanghai, 1992


<Marxism-Leninism is not a dogma, it is a guide to action and a creative theory. So, Marxism-Leninism can display its indestructible vitality only when it is applied creatively to suit the specific conditions of each country. The same applies to the experience of the fraternal parties. It will prove valuable to us only when we make a study of it, grasp its essence and properly apply it to our realities. Instead, if we just gulp it down and spoil our work, it will not only harm our work but also lead to discrediting the valuable experience of the fraternal parties.


Kim Il Sung, On eliminating dogmatism and formalism and establishing Juche in ideological work, Speech to Party Propagandists and Agitators December 28, 1955

<Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat.


Karl Marx, Critique of the Gotha Programme, 1875

<Our theory is a theory of evolution, not a dogma to be learned by heart and to be repeated mechanically. The less it is drilled into the Americans from outside and the more they test it with their own experience […] the deeper will it pass into their flesh and blood. When we returned to Germany, in spring 1848, we joined the Democratic Party as the only possible means of getting the ear of the working class; we were the most advanced wing of that party, but still a wing of it. When Marx founded the International, he drew up the General Rules in such a way that all working-class socialists of that period could join it – Proudhonists, Pierre Lerouxists and even the more advanced section of the English Trades Unions; and it was only through this latitude that the International became what it was, the means of gradually dissolving and absorbing all these minor sects, […] Had we from 1864, to 1873 insisted on working together only with those who openly adopted our platform where should we be to-day? I think that all our practice has shown that it is possible to work along with the general movement of the working class at every one of its stages without giving up or hiding our own distinct position and even organisation […]


Friedrich Engels, Letter to Florence Kelley Wischnewetsky, January 27, 1887

>>2657093
>"sex work won't exist, so there's no need to engage with it"
>"small businesses won't exist so engaging with them is wrong"
>"drugs will be banned under communism, so engaging with the people who consume them is wrong"
Boring, but I'll bite since I don't feel like grading papers right now:
Who says this?!
I swear half of the posts on this site sound like AI hallucinations for how completely disconnected they are from what literally anyone is saying. Or hell, what do you even mean by "engaging" anyways. Do you mean recruiting from those segments, adopting their ideas, struggling with them, or just talking with them? The weaselly way you use that word reflects the audacious dishonesty of this entire strawman "argument".

Sex work is inherently coercive and must be abolished. It's not a career, it's rape. Sex workers are lumpen and their right to life and safety should be defended, women's councils should be formed and armed to enforce this violently if need be, while pimps and Johns should be lynched.
The petty bourgeoisie cannot be relied on to be anything approaching a revolutionary class as a whole, especially in first world settler colonial contexts where their entire way of life relies on imperialism. Some few individuals in this class might place politics first and commit class suicide, but this isn't a behavior that can be relied on to be carried out with any kind of mass consistency. You cannot sweet talk a small business owner into supporting the revolution in any genuine way while remaining in their class position. Struggle where you can, but never get your hopes up.
Lastly, I don't think there's ever been a consistent communist position on drugs beyond "the masses should be clear-headed while decisions need to be made". I certainly don't know of anyone who has advocated that communists not "engage" with anyone who partakes in drug usage, especially since that's not an internally cohesive group in any meaningful way when you investigate it. What drugs are done is different along class lines, but drug usage has been shown to be a pretty universal practice across all class strata, maybe somewhat more prevalent among the bourgeois classes. It would be obviously meaningless and out-of-touch to propose what you're claiming people are saying.

>my honest opinion is that engaging in utopianism is significantly easier than engaging in materialism

Uh oh watch out everybody, he's starting to think about basic truisms!


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