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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1769049470358.jpg (14.91 KB, 380x431, 1743979551318.jpg)

 

Fine. I'll address it. What can we do to stop the incessant infighting between MLs and Ultras?
There is ultimately a middle ground to be found between their positions.
And it is at least in my opinion, it's the positions between both groups that makes the most sense and most closely resemble the intent behind Marx's original aims.
I am a bit of a theorylet so maybe I am missing some crucial ideological perspective that already achieved this, but if not I suppose I am in a sense proposing that stance here.

What do I even mean? Take for example;

Ultras:
>We must abolish the commodity form and money on day 1 of the revolution or you're a state capitalist moderniser falsifier and a betrayer of the revolution
MLs:
>It's fine to have 100 years of market economy, stock exchanges, billionaires etc whilst only making vague promises of transitioning from production for exchange value to production for use value in some distant ever further away future

Ultras:
>You must never ever support national liberation even when the movement is clearly progressive and socialist in character and it's successes will weaken imperialism and capitalism
MLs:
>You must uncritically support almost every single group that opposes the first world and call it AES no matter how anti-communist and nationalistic it is because muh multipolarity

All of the above positions are of course a little exaggerated but typify the types of arguement put forth by both sides.
Instead why can't we use the DIALECTICAL METHOD, end the Marxist infighting, and synthesise a new theory that will allow both sides to work together?

Why not develop a framework where we all agree there will be a steady but brief economic transition period lasting a few years, a decade at most, between production for exchange value Vs use value?
Why not agree to support national liberation struggles as originally explained by Engels himself - when they are progressive, socialist, weaken empire and capitalism while also rejecting support for bourgeois, liberal national, reactionary movements?
Is that not clearly what Marx and Engels both recommended, which was later revised one way or another by later thinkers?

Call me a clown but I really think if people stop caring about their attaching their ego to certain brands of ideological thought we could work together and create the ideological and theoretical breeding ground for a third way.

Both of these groups are just unserious larpers who jerk off to relitigating the same debates for a century plus. Neither of them should be considered worthy of the labels they claim. I'm sick of arguing with strawman parodies of other types of communists.

>>2659123
>strawman parodies of other types of communists
<the entire OP

just rangeban MLoids, they are literally pro-capitalism

>>2659118
>There is ultimately a middle ground to be found between their positions.
thats not how critique or even reality works lol

>>2659127
I'm not going to relitigate every debate had on the internet between both groups in recent times in excruciating detail, the OP post was long enough.
I'm sure both groups will attest to the fact that their ideological rivals make those very arguments in similar enough terms, just as much as they claim the - admittedly exaggerated - representation of their position they cling to so fiercely is a "strawman", in order to protect themselves from contemplating any form of synthesis towards a united Marxism.

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>>2659118
>What can we do to stop the incessant infighting between MLs and Ultras?
Children keeping each other distracted.

>>2659118
>>We must abolish the commodity form and money on day 1 of the revolution or you're a state capitalist moderniser falsifier and a betrayer of the revolution
this is an anarchist position not leftcom

>>It's fine to have 100 years of market economy, stock exchanges, billionaires etc whilst only making vague promises of transitioning from production for exchange value to production for use value in some distant ever further away future

MLs dont say this

>>You must uncritically support almost every single group that opposes the first world and call it AES no matter how anti-communist and nationalistic it is because muh multipolarity

MLs dont say this either

>>Why not develop a framework where we all agree there will be a steady but brief economic transition period lasting a few years, a decade at most, between production for exchange value Vs use value?

The length of the period of development depends on the level of development before the revolution, the size of the population, international relations etc that is on the material conditions not on a subjective choice of what would be nice

read chapter 5 of state and revolution its all about this

>Instead why can't we use the DIALECTICAL METHOD

picking a halfway point between something correct and something incorrect is not dialectics.
material conditions, material conditions, material conditions, material conditions,

>Why not agree to support national liberation struggles as originally explained by Engels himself - when they are progressive, socialist, weaken empire and capitalism while also rejecting support for bourgeois, liberal national, reactionary movements?

reasonable people already do this(critically) and only present uncritically in the face of pro-imperialist shills. ruthless criticism is for behind closed doors in a party meeting among like-minded comrades and public messaging should be decided by democratic centralism and all disciplined comrades adhere to it never exposing flaws of international movements and give free ammo to the forces of reaction

>What can we do to stop the incessant infighting between MLs and Ultras?

Cut Ultraoids CIA funding.

>>2659118
>what can we do?
Voluntarism


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