/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2659199
reddit happened

>>2659199
I am against all religions but I would never ever say anything about Islam

atheism took a turn for the worse, now religion is stronger than ever. i think there might be something to the idea that people need religion.

>>2659204
I don't know enough about it. If I knew Arabic and was from that culture then I could probably find a lot of dumb shit but I'm not so I'll just stick to laughing at MAGA preachers.

>>2659199
>I am against all religions but I would never ever say anything about Islam
Uniting with oppressed religious groups doesn't seem like a bad idea so long as you do it right.

>>2659204
idpol faggot

>>2659213
okay then I'm with the yazidis against shias and sunni

Because it was an utter failure

>>2659210
>I don't know enough about it.
I don't either, but it's a batshit crazy religion. Not just the typical stuff people know it for.

For one: I'm surprised the Jews don't talk about this more, but antisemitism is literally baked into their holy scripture. In Muslim eschatology, well backing up first I got to explain their other crazy shit first:

>Their beliefs about Jesus
They believe that Jesus wasn't crucified. When the Romans came to crucify him, he was like, "Well I'm a prophet, I can't die in that humiliating way! One of you disciples, I will use magic to change your appearance into my own so you can be crucified instead!" Then his youngest follower, a 13 year old boy or something was like "I volunteer Jesus!" Then Jesus was like "Nooo! My son! You're too young to die!" Then the boy said, "No, Jesus I would do anything for you." Then Jesus used magic to make that boy look like him, the boy was crucified, then Jesus flew to heaven.

So getting back to the eschatology. When Jesus comes back, he's going to break all the crosses, then he's going to tell the Christians that he wasn't crucified and they should of all listened to Mohammed. Then all the Christians will see the error of his ways and praise Mohammed and become Muslims.

BUT The Jews, will not be swayed even by Jesus. Instead the Jews will side with the antichrist, the Al-Masih ad-Dajjal. Then all the Muslims will battle all the Jews led by the antichrist and defeat them blahh blah. But even the rocks and the stones will help the Muslims kill every last hiding Jew, except for the Gharqad, because it's a Jewish tree.

Now as far as I can see, their hatred of Jews at this level all stems from they blame the Jews for slandering Jesus and Mary. They're pissed that the Jews spread rumors that Jesus was just a bastard sired by a Roman soldier named Pantera(they also believe in the virgin birth) and they also say that the Jews, I guess at least when the scripture was written, were openly bragging about killing Jesus and taunting them with it or something, at least that's what it says in the Muslims scripture. And it says in the Jewish scripture that Jesus is boiling in excrement in hell, so they were pretty concerned with Jesus back then too.
The Talmudic verse about Jesus boiling in excrement was written:
>The Gittin tractate of the Babylonian Talmud was compiled in Talmudic Babylon between roughly 450 and 550 CE
<The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad between 610 and 632 CE

There is a lot of other shit they write in the book about why they hate Jews, but that seemed to be the most important to them doctrinally and why the Jews will reject Jesus even after he comes back and why they will side with the antichrist.



I'm not bullshitting about any of this either. Just look it up and you'll even see on reddit the muslims defending and rationalizing their belief they're going to have to kill the Jews in the end times.

>>2659210
>doing standpoint theory for Islam
lol
you don't need to know the language to know the central tenets and be able to sniff out the metaphysical idealism central to it. It's an abrahamic religion and bullshit just like its precursors: Christianity and Judaism.

Same with non abrahamic religions like Vedic and Dharmic religions. Buddhism preaching against earthly attachment doesn't mean much when the Dalai Lama wants to own boy slaves.

>>2659258
>quoting a hadith to prove Islam is antisemitic.

you can find a hadith that says anything. that's the funny thing about decentralized oral traditions. Communism, despite being secular, has the same problem. People will quote lenin to debunk marx, and so on.

>>2659274
It is central to the entire Muslim eschatology. I wasn't just citing the hadith, rather the hadith is citing their core eschatology.

>>2659278
I didn't say Islam bad or good. And I wasn't talking about their general feelings towards kuffar. They specifically hate Jews more than all others.

it's kind of "funny" that the west supported the salafists and wahhabists to own the commies and bourgeois nationalists but then cry "muh extremism!" all day

Mohammed must be one of the greatest autists in history. He created a lasting system of learned autism based around his random personal pet peeves.

<The Prophet ﷺ (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said,
>“Allah detests it when two people relieve themselves uncovered and have a conversation.”
<The Prophet ﷺ would take so much care to seclude himself that Al-Mughirah ibn Shu’bah said, “I was travelling with the Prophet. When he needed to relieve himself, he went far away from me.”

To be honest, I get the feeling atheism will start to resurface on the Western left now that Christianity (especially Catholicism) is becoming a much more blatant tool of fascism, Judaism is indistinguishable from Zionism, and pan-Islamism has proven a massive failure in fighting imperialism.

>>2659288
>I get the feeling atheism will start to resurface on the Western left now
when did the left stop being atheist?

>>2659199
1. it's not necessary, religion is dead
2. so far as it is necessary to kill religion, television on sunday did far more to kneecap church attendance (and with it, actually lived religion) than mandatory atheist campaigns ever did.

>>2659204
you're shitposting but there are obvious mechanics here. the reason people get sensitive/angry about islam in particular is because muslims are as a general rule demographically centralized on a non-white group. (unlike christians which, in europe at least, have schizo demography split between geriatric whites, people who think going to weddings and funerals is keeping the faith, and recent african migrants)

those who complain about islam are usually bothered less by the faith, more by the brownness and migration status of its adherents.

>>2659272
It's so boring to read about THOUGH. I know it's a bunch of metaphysical idealism. At least if I grew up somewhat immersed in that culture I'd pick up on a few of the main themes but otherwise it's reading a bunch of autistic rules and also there's magic involved. Not even doing the stuff either (which I don't have any interest in), just reading about it. You know what I mean.

>>2659199
There is literally no point to atheist propaganda in the modern day.

Do you think that the religious right are good people being duped by a religion into being reactionaries? I don't. I think they're reactionaries trying to find ways to make their already-held secular beliefs sound more mystical. I think they would like to believe that their car dealership and second car have the mandate of heaven and God also hates gays and browns, but if you were able to instantly make them atheists, none of their beliefs would actually change. Nor do I see much evidence of it making the masses complacent. It's been a hot minute since I've heard of any poor person being resigned to their poverty because "they're storing their treasures in Heaven." Instead, at least in Burgerland, they seem to be taken in almost entirely by a secular dogma which promises an ascension to an earthly Elysium of wealth and prosperity if they are virtuous enough, which has largely replaced religion in this regard.

So, it's pointless. Worse, we would be directly engaging in radlib culture war bullshit. The radlibs deserve only to be beaten, not to be emulated.

>>2659292
How on Earth is religion dead when atheists are gonna be outbreed by 2050? This sheer arrogance by the atheists about their blah blah blah inevitable enlightened victory is just pure bourgeois whiggism. The future is Africa, and Africa is the most religious place on Earth

>>2659319
everywhere else is rapidly becoming less religious, you retard

>>2659272
To be fair the Dalai Lama and Gelug are one of the smaller sects

>>2659323
That's not true. The prediction of a rapid fall has been disproven because it has relatively stabilized for years now. Religion is far from dead especially when the countries reproducing are religious while countries like in Europe are declining

>>2659348
>That's not true
look at religious statistics in latin america, it has been depreciating for years, even in religious heartlands in europe it's fallen too
>The prediction of a rapid fall has been disproven because it has relatively stabilized for years now
the prediction of a decline has been shown to be true, when the right conditions have emerged
>Religion is far from dead especially when the countries reproducing are religious while countries like in Europe are declining
your statement is half-true, but the countries that are getting more religious (in africa only) are only getting more religious in the short term, because they are reaching stability and decent development, yet in the few countries in africa that are mostly developed, they have fallen

>>2659203
>reddit happened
No, New Atheism happened, which was at its peak back when Reddit was just some lesser-known Digg clone. The damage that New Atheism has done by associating atheism with racist and pro-imperialist positions cannot be understated.

Agnosticism and paganism the only valid positions for communists to have on theism. Either don't waste your time thinking about it or do something cool with it. Being a pious atheist is bourgoise nonsense.

>>2659319
You're assuming religiosity is transmitted 100% reliably from parents, independent of technological and economic development and the impacts that has on society, which is stupid on the face of it. Within Africa, it stands out that traditional faiths have been in freefall while Christianity and Islam have prospered. You're also, tangentially, making the big assumption that most of Africa remains habitable or that western countries allow African refugees to enter if it becomes uninhabitable, but that's another thread…

The "enlightenment" that removes religion does not come from rationally realizing that it's all nonsense, it comes from beams of light emanating from a screen. Stamp Collecting isn't on death-watch because people rationally decided it's a lame hobby, but because people stopped sending letters and found better, cheaper, easier ways to kill boredom.

>>2659348
You're imagining that religion is genetic when it is in fact memetic. I suspect that you would also adopt a very loose definition of what constitutes keeping the religious meme intact. (e.g. I would regard tradcath larpers as a stage of religious deadening even stronger than fedora-atheism, I get the impression you'd view it as a genuine revival.)

People have realized Islam is the true religion of the proletariat

>>2659210
>I don't know enough about it. If I knew Arabic and was from that culture then I could probably find a lot of dumb shit
RationalWiki a shit, but their "Are you going to hell" pages are fun.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_actions_prohibited_by_the_Qur%27an
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_actions_prohibited_by_the_Bible

>>2660669
why religions hate gay uyghas so much

>>2659199
the radical left has largely abandoned reason and enlightenment. it is too afraid to spit at priests and declare them the guardians of oppression, who disguise injustice as a "test" by a veil of tears.
>>2659204
>i would never tell the truth
this is called cowardice.
>>2660581
how is new atheism "racist"?

>>2660590
>The "enlightenment" that removes religion does not come from rationally realizing that it's all nonsense
yes it does.
the more intelligent you are, generally, the less religious.

>>2660743
Because religion is the gayest shit so they have to oppress that otherwise it would just end up in a giant homosexual circlejerk and nothing would get done

>>2660757
this is true but the correlation with economic development and a modern western lifestyle is even stronger. the lowest autism score britons are less religious than the highest autism score malaysians

>>2660757
most intelligent people in the VVest at least do not actually devote their intelligence to think about whether God existed or not. They devote their intelligence to making money. Their atheism is simply a product of capitalism, where no overt attachment to any value system makes you freer to pursue diverse avenues of money making, rather than any serious grappling with high minded philosophical concepts

>>2660590
i know what you are talking about, and that is why i exactly said that the future is religious. Integration to the capitalist circuit and lifestyles make you less able to commit into social reproduction. You will be eliminated within two generations since you people don't have kids, and collapse of labour supply is indicative of overall decay of social structures.

>>2659204
I do not get this one. Islam is the worse religion by far. Shintoism, for instance is relatively fine and modern Islam is worse than Christianity ever was.
Islam used to be only questionable it's not anymore.

>>2659249
This guy think that an integrist state was right to genocide the Coptes because somewhere else in the world, Christianity used to be strong and the Muslim people didn't had time to get to the upper echelon of society.

>>2660664
>Communism with slavery characteristics

>>2660795
woefully optimistic to conclude that religiosity will triumph over the dictats of capital. whether by migration or by shifting development patterns, the machine is not going to want for people.

Sunni animals are beyond criticism here.

communism is too fucking boring of an ideology to capture peoples hearts without a personality cult or religious elements.

every succesful communist has mystical elements and great man elements, you have to be blind to deny that.

communism is perfectly compatible with religion and only retards who take everything marx wrote as absulute truth deny it, social changes are made through religion or great leaders, deal with it.

>>2661023
Would you say this with Christianity? Twisting the words of the holy books is an universal value and Christ kind of had a message about propriety.

I believe in gods and I hate them (especially the most successful one - Yahweh). They suck the gavvah out of people.

>>2661023
Religion sides with reactionary forces in almost all cases. America is the perfect example. The imperial core, and the ones who are most eager to perpetuate imperialism and capitalism are vocally Christian.
Likewise with Russia, when they abandoned communism in favor of the most brutal form of capitalist oligarchy, who filled the void of the soviet state? The Russian Orthodox church. Yeltsin was Russian Orthodox and Putin is Russian Orthodox.
Israel is dominated by ethnonationalist fundamentalist religious ideology. They are underpinned by the belief that they are owed the land of Israel (the "greater" Israel) by God.
Saudi Arabia is a fundamentalist religious Muslim nation which exports the worst strain of Wahhabist extremist ideology.
Fundamentalist Christian Zionists strongly support both Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Denying this is foolish.

>>2659280
Jews are people of the book you twat. Strictly speaking Islam is opposed to atheists and polytheists. This is completely ignored in real life of course because religion is a thin veil for bourgeois goals and ideology.

>>2660590
> I would regard tradcath larpers as a stage of religious deadening even stronger than fedora-atheism, I get the impression you'd view it as a genuine revival.
Tradcaths are a kind of Hitlerite and Hitlerism is a kind of religion. Tradcaths just aren't Catholic. Doesn't make tradcaths atheists.

>>2659287
Smol dick energy from a prophet lmao

>>2659199
Lenin is Dead. Christ and His Church are Alive. Repent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dBdJ7kyqyo

>>2659213
Yea like the Christians in the Middle East?

>>2663025
it says gullible on the ceiling

>>2660785
>Their atheism is simply a product of capitalism, where no overt attachment to any value system makes you freer to pursue diverse avenues of money making
True

>>2660795
>and that is why i exactly said that the future is religious. Integration to the capitalist circuit and lifestyles make you less able to commit into social reproduction.
I think capitalism is going to win, and it has been winning. People have less time or patience to be chained to ancient books of superstitions when compared to everything new on offer.

>>2663025
>>2663030
Alive in raping kids

Leninist principle:
Correctness in the concrete over truth in the abstract.

Compare to feudal times of USSR, religion is not as much of a force any more, so fighting it isn't really worth it compared to uniting the forces that can be united against imperialism.