Made a subreddit to explore the potential of using social media as a facilitator of organizing labor outside market relations. Come check it out, troll if you want, but the general idea is that social media already facilitates market less activity from basic communication, to large scale mass mobilization such as protests, could it not extend to production as well?
https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialProductionFirst project is to make the banner and icon for the sub. Think of like a place to experiment with alternative relations of production, without market relations and incentives. Will it fail? Probably. But we need to actually create an alternative, not just sit around crying about how bad capitalism and it's externalities are.
>>2666071>redditmaybe you should go back there? any leftist subreddit that becomes popular gets shut down. you're an idiot for even trying it.
>social media is marketless
isnt the entire apparatus of the "algorithm" a market concept? a private world of streamlined consumption.
>>2666080Reddit is shit I know. But I'm not gonna build an entire platform just to experiment. If the model proves it has some viability then sure, collaborative labour without market relations would be a perfect project to build.
>>I'm an idiotI'm an idiot because I want to experiment with a new mode of organizing production? Maybe we should just sit on forums shit talking all day, that'll overthrow capitalism for sure.
>>2666082Social media is a tool, that has absolutely been captured by the market. Was the printing press not originally tied the propagation of religious material? Should we dismiss it as tool of indoctrination?
Social networking is essentially a tool for communication and organization.
>>2666088Using collaborative labour without market relations to build a standalone platform would be a perfect project to build.
Sorry typed that like a retard.
>>2666088but social media is inherently marketed. why should i consume the same content you do? it can be shared, but its inherently personalised, like any cultural item. i might like music you dont, so culture develops by a division of labour, you could say.
>>2666092This has nothing to do with what you consume, I don't see how that is related. The point is that social media can organize activity, and it does, even right now. What if it's organizational capabilities were spread to productive spheres without being mediated by the market? Then you have a potential for a new mode of production.
For example, I have seen numerous Facebook groups, where people volunteer to clean up a polluted environment, like a beach or something. No one is there for a wage, no one is making any money, and while not producing anything of "value", it is labor in the abstract.
Wikipedia, Linux, GitHub, are massive examples of productive labour outside market relations producing tangible goods.
While these are all isolated and fragmented, what if you could combine them into some sort of hub, so collective labor can be connected and interrelated, allowing ability to scale off each other.
>>2666094social media is an international market
thats my point
saying that you can use social media for good things is nothing new, and can often be a proper end to consider (e.g. charity, fellowship, etc.)
>While these are all isolated and fragmented, what if you could combine them into some sort of hub, so collective labor can be connected and interrelated, allowing ability to scale off each other.sure, but isnt this just the internet? we are now voluntarily sharing information with one another for the ends of common understanding (e.g. the socratic dialogue and dialectic). i am in support of the general project of the freedom of information, but i think markets are often the best way of realising this.
>>2666096I'm not talking about sharing information, I'm talking about organizing PRODUCTION.
>>2666100you are talking about volunteer work
the mode of production is global, not local
>>2666071Mods permaban this one for voluntarism seriously
>>2666071yeah i understand but reddit is such a cuck app stoped using it after they started trying to ban a sub for making fun of charlie KKKirk
>>2666101This isn't volunteer, it is labour not compelled by market forces. Retard you can't even imagine a world beyond capitalism. Social media is interconnected globally you dumbass, and production can't immediately take on high initial capital projects, use your brain. It is experimenting in small scale, and if the model is viable, expand into higher spheres.
>>2666110Explain voluntarism brainlet
>>2666115Yeah reddit is fucked, but it has a decent platform organization for the initial experimentation. Already aarge userbase as well. Creating a standalone from the jump wouldn't be viable.
>>2666150>labour not compelled by market forcesSuch as? Hobbies? Intellectualism? Book reading groups? Or what?
>>2666071People have jobs man. What are you talking about? The production is already socialized.
>>2666071Congrats. You solved history
>>2666157Book reading groups could be good, but I'm looking to experiment with more productive labor. Wikipedia or Linux are great examples of non market orientated products.
First project on the page is to see if can coordinate the most basic of actual products, the icon and banner for the page. Can people collaborate and produce something without market relations and incentives.
>>2666162Yes genius, we do live under capitalism. If you are interested in communism beyond circlejerking how bad capitalism is, or dreaming of being in charge of it's state apparatus, it requires experimentation of alternate relations of production. Experimentation with the capabilities that new technology provides.
Internet/social media makes possible large scale activity without the mediation of the market (although the platforms themselves are corporate captured). Look at a protest for example, you have mass mobilization and activity. Why not direct this activity to productive purposes.
>>2666175Finally some acknowledgement and respect I deserve
>>2666071>>2666080If you used Reddit at some point and didn't get banned from there, you're not a real uygha. Even my friend who's a totally milktoast liberal who wouldn't say a "controversial" if his life depended on it got banned from there recently.
>>2666176This is just leisure man. I dont understand what you are trying to achieve.
>>2666182I have been banned from it more times than I can count, I will not comment on identity politics of any kind.
This is beside the point though, the platform has good specs and large userbase, ideal for this experiment. Regardless of the dog shit censorship and moderation.
There was a discussion and implementation of an imageboard over in
>>>/tech/26419 and there was talk about a rewrite to integrate into the fediverse for outreach so it's not just another bunker.
>>2666186How do you create another account if you have been banned? I have tried and it won't let me and I can create an account using a VPN either.
>>2666188*and I can't create
>>2666176>productive labourWhat does that mean?
>>2666185How do you define a genuine communist mode of production, without market relations and incentives to drive labor?
What is Wikipedia and Linux? Is it leisure? What is cooking dinner for your family? It is not leisure and it is not voluntary. It is labor and production not compelled and driven by market forces.
Why is it so difficult for so called communists to imagine labor outside of simple commodity production?
>>2666188Personally had to create a vps
>>2666190Labor that produces something useful. Could be as small as turning bread into toast, or producing nuclear energy.
Per Marx, it is the social relations of production, how people organize their activity, that define a mode of production.
>>2666191I am not a communist. What is market forces? Is me applying to job to get money driven by market forces? How?
waste of time, actual leftists spaces on reddit at subverted and made inert through massive bot campaigns the general idiocy of the reddit population as well as being populated by more fascistic elements.
I had about 4 different reddit accounts, i got one banned because i was calling out a person that was hunting for sexually vulnerable folks in various homeless/travelers subs for sex in exchange for housing.
To me, that means reddit on the whole is totally fine and even enables exchange rape.
You can say alot of thing about leftypol, but we alteast attempt to not have our users physically rape each other for basic human commodities.
>>2666191Okay. Posting on leftypol is labour too then
>>2666195Yes it is. Life and production has not always been driven and dependant on production of commodities for exchange. You produce at your job, for currency, in order to exchange for products of consumption
>>2666197Yes reddit is dog shit. But I don't think it is feasible to create a complete standalone platform just to experiment. If it proves moderately viable, of course an early project would be do get off any corporate controlled entity.
But this is not something I even have the programming knowledge to do, and also it should be created in a collaborative environment.
>>2666201Yes it literally is, and creates a source of community and information sharing. This is useful, and it is why corporations capture such platforms to use them for advertising. The users themself create the use commodity.
Labor doesn't just mean bashing something with a hammer.
>>2666202Market forces is not a thing. You didnt explain what market forces are. You didnt name them
>>2666191If i tinker with linux in my free time it is leisure okay?
>>2666223Nah waste of time larping as if it's the early 1900s. We don't need to take control of capitalist governmental apparatus, we are past the point of needing to develop the means of production.
The role of the party you should be to develop and accelerate an emerging communistic economic system, not the cringe shit communist parties engage in today.
>>2666218“In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic.” - Karl Marx, The German Ideology
>>2666217The coercive logic of commodity production, where survival depends on producing for exchange and responding to circulation and prices. That impersonal compulsion is what structures the whole mode of production.
>>2666235Is this guy what commies call a Proudhonist? You are proudhonist.
Proudhonist thread o algo
>>2666235>Nah waste of time larping as if it's the early 1900sMilitant opposition to touching grass.
>>2666237I am not advocating anything even remotely similar to workers coops. The hell of capitalism isn't the boss, it's the firm. Once again another brainlet parading around as a Marxist
>>2666239I'm advocating real life productive labour, you advocate larping as 20th century socialist. Totally irrelevant, activity for activities sake.
No one is dumb enough to fall for capitalism with red flags this century.
>>2666071What the fuck do I, YES MEEEE, need this shit for? I have no use for this.
>>2666071Are you admin? If you have the power to ban people then there is a relation of some kind here, yeah.
>>2666071Whats a market relations?
>>2666240>I'm advocating real life productive labour, you advocate larping as 20th century socialist. Totally irrelevant, activity for activities sake.Most political actions are tied to geography in some way - virtually anything that can improve material conditions like unions, or tenant unions, or community services, etc. Anything that challenges the state, or electoralism.
>>2666250Makes me wonder why I was writing something of a similar project…
>>2666242Do you always want to live in a world defined by production for exchange?
>>2666243Yes and is a valid critique, this is just an experiment, not the final iteration. This in particular needs to be discussed, when creating a standalone platform, how to prevent this.
>>2666244Market dynamics that energe fro production geared around commodity exchange.
>>2666250We are not trying to put band aids on the negative externalities of capitalism. We aim to replace the mode of production completely. Is that not the point of communism?
>>2666088>Reddit is shit I know. But I'm not gonna build an entire platform just to experiment. If the model proves it has some viability then sure, collaborative labour without market relations would be a perfect project to build.https://join-lemmy.org/https://lemmy.ml/You might not need to do that.
Going on lemmy might attract more serious people.
I dont think this is gonna work
Social media is literally designed as a market, maybe if it were its own site id think its otherwise but its a subreddit
>>2666366I'll check it out, thanks.
>>2666369Social media is a tool, that has been in many cases captured by the market. No different than the printing press was captured by religious institutions.
It's a subreddit right now, the idea is to test the viability of coordinated non market production, using social media as a facilitator.
If it it proves viable, a standalone non corporate platform would be an obvious project to collaborate and build.
>>2666071Anon let me help you with one issue you have:
"social production" means production that is done not for individual use but for use by members of society as a whole, such as commodity production
"individual production" is when you cook a meal for your family. It's production for the producer, not for wider society
Feudalism engaged heavily in individual production. Capitalism turns production into social production by alienating us from the means of laboring for ourselves and compelling us to labor in a system of commodity production. If your goal is not co-ops, and isn't expropriating existing productive forces, then it seems like you want people to engage in individual production. People already do this, but the reason it's not dominant anymore is because we don't all live on self-sustaining homesteads. We work jobs and that takes the majority of our time and energy. If the goal
is socialized production, then I ask why anyone would want to do this for free, outside of their hobbies and charitable work, which I assume they're already pursuing if interested and don't need to be convinced to pursue.
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