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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1769620244376.png (178.31 KB, 912x781, 1769620031712.png)

 

How do Stalin-hating Leninists cope with the fact that all of the mass immigration into capitalist countries that Lenin supported due to "progressive potential" has not actually succeeded in breaking down national barriers and uniting the working masses against international bourgeoisie?
In fact the opposite happened. Workers became divided among each other and the bourgeoisie class has strengthened. On top of that, it was now proven that multi culturalism was a failure that only serves to help fuel the rise of reactionary ideologies.

Marx understood this, he even expelled Chinese workers from the international proletarian movement when they flooded the British labor market.

>>2669259
>potential
Do you know what a potential is?

>>2669259
Mods permaban this very obvious /pol/-ACK!

>>2669267
Sorry, but I am just not going to become a Leninist. Ugh I know! But I am not going to, sorry.
I will keep reading opinions of actual traditional Marxists who know how to construct a worker's state that won't fall apart due to sectarian and secessionist movements.

>>2669259
They don't care, and you're retarded for thinking anyone would care. The primary motivation of marxists is anti-white racial hatred, it's the reason why parties like the EFF (economic freedom fighters) loses no support among marxist despite never doing anything for worker and having it's primary campaign be exterminating whites in South Africa.

>>2669259
>Marx understood this, he even expelled Chinese workers from the international proletarian movement when they flooded the British labor market.
wtf are you talking about

>>2669267
If this gets removed and not the months-old bait pedophilic thread I am deleting this app

>>2669545
Does anyone have that image of obese boers working in a plantation and a redhead leftist matcha-drinking soyjak was wipping them or sometimes? One of the boers had a Hitler haircut and tattooed the symbol of the southafrican nazi party
I can't find it in the booru, it seems it has been removed

>>2669574
Mods would never remove their own posts

>>2669259
> Stalin-hating Leninists
i knew it was bait from these words

>>2669259
>has not actually succeeded in breaking down national barriers and uniting the working masses against international bourgeoisie
it is an ongoing process. nationalism constantly redefines itself and moves its goalposts to match its new demographics. this creates the illusion of "no change" but even in the time since lenin wrote these words many nations which once were are no longer, and many nations which were not, now are.

>>2669604
The internet and mass media has been more successful breaking down national barriers than immigration. Immigrants tend to self-seggregate so idk how it is useful anyways

File: 1769627684188.png (3.57 MB, 1475x1750, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2669594
It's from SLAMMER

>>2669259
Stalin-hating Leninists? What rubbish is this lmao, you can't be a Leninist while hating Stalin. You're a Lenin-hating revisionist.

File: 1769628024771.mp4 (1.92 MB, 540x540, PE9JtXSN09OxWEpm.mp4)

>>2669634
>Immigrants tend to self-seggregate so idk how it is useful anyways
I mean if you're going by Lenin's analysis, it's capitalism that generates it on large scale anyways so whaddya gon do. At least some white nationalists realize this anti-immigration stuff is sort of a masquerade.

>>2669641
>whaddya gon do
Nothing. Revolution, I guess?

>>2669646
How's that going

>>2669641
richard is not a wignat, he is just a racially aware liberal elitist that inhabits the authentic imperialist vision of ruling the world. he wants a multi-ethnic global empire, like nick fuentes, because the cream rises to the top in his mind.


>>2669649
I mean, I don't have some blueprint on what to do, or how to form a party, or seize state power either. But we get these threads once a week. It's like, there is no revolution, also there's a lot of capitalism and stuff that is produced by capitalism including mass migration. Gee if this capitalist stuff wasn't happening then maybe it'd be easier to have a revolution, except it is happening and it's totally outside the control of this deadbeat left-wing comedy imageboard.

>>2669648
He did used to be wignat, but he has self reflected in recent years.
He now only wants an ethnostate for his white children and doesn't care about anything else.
That is why he frequently breaks ranks with other wignats on things like women's rights and killing of liberals by ICE.
He knows that if America is to ever become white again he needs the broadest possible coalition to make it happen.
Whites are already a minority in America, so by his perspective, any such division is destructive.
Ultimately he will fail because too many wignats want to see white liberals die so the liberal whites (half of whites) will go against the ethnostate movement.

>>2669655
We can only organize but since I am a pussy I will probably emmigrate to some third-world country so I can "support" multipolarity and anti-imperialism without being beaten up by fascists

>>2669661
Organize yeah, find ways to cooperate with each other.

>>2669660
you can listen to him back in 2012 and its clear that he never jelled well with "the right", hence "the alt-right". he has not really changed, he is just being honest. he wants you to vote for kamala harris, and its not a bit.

>>2669677
I mean Nick does too. Or did anyway, before he jumped on Trump bandwagon again.

>>2669648
He's an elitist and sees liberalism as esoterically elitist. His main grip with the right is it's full of mouthbreathers.

Immigration policy under DOTP is not the same question as immigration policy under dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. If you want Communists to divert their efforts towards immigration crackdowns in order for one section of the proletariat to get a marginally better deal under capitalism then you're a liberal.

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>>2669687
Is he wrong?

>>2669690
Is it now? With Trump we have discovered that once your country takes in certain threshold of immigrants, it will never ever be able to get them out.
ICE has a higher budget than Russian military for fucks sake. What do they have to show for it?


>>2669259
>has not actually succeeded in breaking down national barriers and uniting the working masses against international bourgeoisie?
This process would take generations but we dont have that much time before world goes up in flames because of nationalist retards.

>>2669574
>deleting this app
???

Mao addresses this

>>2669637
Thanks, are you SLAMMER? Do you know why it got removed?

>>2670116
I was being ironic (this is not an app). I was once in an XMPP MUC (multi user chat) and someone called XMPP and "app"

>>2669259
>it was now proven that multi culturalism was a failure that only serves to help fuel the rise of reactionary ideologies.
How do you expect your bait to be taken seriously when you can't even hold back?

>>2670160
I mean it's technically correct there since XXMP is something you run an application for. Here, less so. Joke understood tho.

>>2669726
Dictatorship of the bourgeoisie isn't yours. You have no country.

People must remember that Lenin, Marx etc were around at times when Sociology and psychology was in it's infancy. They thought class would be a far more defining feature in people's outlook than culture, language, family, ethnicity, which in the end is just clearly completely and totally wrong, class solidarity does exist among elites, but barely among working people and largely only among workers of the same ethnicity/culture.
On top of this they didn't understand the fundamental difference between Westerners and many Asian cultures being dignity based where most thirdie cultures are tribe/honour based, this means there is a fundamental clash in how thirdies and westerners/east asian cultures fundamentally see the world.
This is why more developed forms of Marxist Leninism rally more around solidarity within a national/cultural scope, rather than trying to export revolution.

>>2670231
Falsifier gem

File: 1769690162503.webp (81.71 KB, 750x500, 1769690161393.webp)


>>2670231
>libs after watching IShowSpeed in Africa

The Marxist position is to organize for the defense of the rights of all workers, including immigrant workers, with compensation for these workers, unions and workers' organizations for any violations compared to native workers, passing all punishments on to the capitalists, also preventing any way for the capitalist to control the immigrant worker to intensify exploitation, where any profit made from unpaid work or work below the wage of the native worker will lead to intervention that will revert any profit made along with the fines that will accumulate plus the lawsuits in solidarity that will be guaranteed to the workers.

Let's begin with the text addressing the issue of Irish and English workers at the time:

<I shall give you here only quite briefly the salient points.


<Ireland is the bulwark of the English landed aristocracy. The exploitation of that country is not only one of the main sources of their material wealth; it is their greatest moral strength. They, in fact, represent the domination over Ireland. Ireland is therefore the cardinal means by which the English aristocracy maintain their domination in England itself.


<If, on the other hand, the English army and police were to be withdrawn from Ireland tomorrow, you would at once have an agrarian revolution in Ireland. But the downfall of the English aristocracy in Ireland implies and has as a necessary consequence its downfall in England. And this would provide the preliminary condition for the proletarian revolution in England. The destruction of the English landed aristocracy in Ireland is an infinitely easier operation than in England herself, because in Ireland the land question has been up to now the exclusive form of the social question because it is a question of existence, of life and death, for the immense majority of the Irish people, and because it is at the same time inseparable from the national question. Quite apart from the fact that the Irish character is more passionate and revolutionary than that of the English.


<As for the English bourgeoisie, it has in the first place a common interest with the English aristocracy in turning Ireland into mere pasture land which provides the English market with meat and wool at the cheapest possible prices. It is likewise interested in reducing the Irish population by eviction and forcible emigration, to such a small number that English capital (capital invested in land leased for farming) can function there with “security”. It has the same interest in clearing the estates of Ireland as it had in the clearing of the agricultural districts of England and Scotland. The £6,000-10,000 absentee-landlord and other Irish revenues which at present flow annually to London have also to be taken into account.


<But the English bourgeoisie has also much more important interests in the present economy of Ireland. Owing to the constantly increasing concentration of leaseholds, Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labour market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class.


<And most important of all! Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. He cherishes religious, social, and national prejudices against the Irish worker. His attitude towards him is much the same as that of the “poor whites” to the Negroes in the former slave states of the U.S.A.. The Irishman pays him back with interest in his own money. He sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland.


<This antagonism is artificially kept alive and intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers, in short, by all the means at the disposal of the ruling classes. This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class, despite its organisation. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power. And the latter is quite aware of this.


<But the evil does not stop here. It continues across the ocean. The antagonism between Englishmen and Irishmen is the hidden basis of the conflict between the United States and England. It makes any honest and serious co-operation between the working classes of the two countries impossible. It enables the governments of both countries, whenever they think fit, to break the edge off the social conflict by their mutual bullying, and, in case of need, by war between the two countries.


<England, the metropolis of capital, the power which has up to now ruled the world market, is at present the most important country for the workers’ revolution, and moreover the only country in which the material conditions for this revolution have reached a certain degree of maturity. It is consequently the most important object of the International Working Men’s Association to hasten the social revolution in England. The sole means of hastening it is to make Ireland independent. Hence it is the task of the International everywhere to put the conflict between England and Ireland in the foreground, and everywhere to side openly with Ireland. It is the special task of the Central Council in London to make the English workers realise that for them the national emancipation of Ireland is not a question of abstract justice or humanitarian sentiment but the first condition of their own social emancipation.


<These are roughly the main points of the circular letter, which thus at the same time give the raisons d’étre of the resolutions passed by the Central Council on the Irish amnesty.


[…]

<We hit another bird with the same stone, we have forced the Irish leaders, journalists, etc., in Dublin to get into contact with us, which the General Council had been unable to achieve previously!


<You have wide field in America for work along the same lines. A coalition of the German workers with the Irish workers (and of course also with the English and American workers who are prepared to accede to it) is the greatest achievement you could bring about now. This must be done in the name of the International. The social significance of the Irish question must be made clear.


<Letters of Karl Marx 1870, Marx to Sigfrid Meyer and August Vogt In New York


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htm

Remembering that Marx and Engels favored uniting all workers of all nationalities, including immigrants, to fight together for the communist revolution and their shared class interests, separatism was not acceptable to them without some material conditions. Irish separatism was an acceptable alternative due to English chauvinism, which hindered the organization of the English and Irish proletariat. This prejudice stemmed from the intensified subjugation of Irish workers. If the alternative to a joint revolution in Britain is the continuation of this subjugation of the Irish, then Irish independence would be an option for a future socialist federation on more equal terms between the Irish and English.

I'll post the text where you can read "The Question of the General Council's Resolution on the Irish Amnesty" if you're interested in reading it, which explains this point:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/03/28.htm

Now, to answer the question about immigration, I will first cite the general position that differentiates communists from other working-class parties in the manifesto:

<The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.


<The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.


<The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.


<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848), Chapter II. Proletarians and Communists


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

Let's look at practical examples of a political program in an election in a bourgeois democracy, with texts by Marx and Engels that fit what is written:

<(iv) Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.


<(v) An equal obligation on all members of society to work until such time as private property has been completely abolished. Formation of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.


<Frederick Engels, 1847, The Principles of Communism


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

<1. One rest day each week or legal ban on employers imposing work more than six days out of seven. - Legal reduction of the working day to eight hours for adults. - A ban on children under fourteen years working in private workshops; and, between fourteen and sixteen years, reduction of the working day from eight to six hours;

<2. Protective supervision of apprentices by the workers' organizations;
<3. Legal minimum wage, determined each year according to the local price of food, by a workers' statistical commission;
<4. Legal prohibition of bosses employing foreign workers at a wage less than that of French workers;
[…]
<7. Responsibility of society for the old and the disabled;
<8. Prohibition of all interference by employers in the administration of workers' friendly societies, provident societies, etc., which are returned to the exclusive control of the workers;
<9. Responsibility of the bosses in the matter of accidents, guaranteed by a security paid by the employer into the workers' funds, and in proportion to the number of workers employed and the danger that the industry presents;
<10. Intervention by the workers in the special regulations of the various workshops; an end to the right usurped by the bosses to impose any penalty on their workers in the form of fines or withholding of wages (decree by the Commune of 27 April 1871);

<Karl Marx and Jules Guesde, 1880, The Programme of the Parti Ouvrier


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm

Now let's look at Lenin's quotes for those who pretend the Bolsheviks didn't have workers of various nationalities or refused to organize immigrant workers:

<We can demand popular election of officers, abolition of all military law, equal rights for foreign and native-born workers (a point particularly important for those imperialist states which, like Switzerland, are more and more blatantly exploiting larger numbers of foreign workers, while denying them all rights). Further, we can demand the right of every hundred, say, inhabitants of a given country to form voluntary military-training associations, with free election of instructors paid by the state, etc.


<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, 1916, The Military Programme of the Proletarian Revolution: III


https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/miliprog/iii.htm

<6) Freedom of movement and occupation.


<7) Abolition of the social estates; equal rights for all citizens irrespective of sex, creed, race, or nationality.

[…]
<12) Replacement of the standing army by the universally armed people.

<12) The police and standing army to be replaced by the universally armed people; workers and other employees to receive regular wages from the capitalists for the time devoted to public service in the people’s militia.

[…]
<In the endeavour to achieve its immediate aims, the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party supports every oppositional and revolutionary movement directed against the existing social and political set-up in Russia, but at the same time emphatically rejects all reformist projects involving any expansion or consolidation of the guardianship of the police and bureaucracy over the labouring masses.

<V. I. Lenin, 1917, Materials Relating to the Revision of the Party Programme


https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/reviprog/ch04.htm

From here, you can already see that any excuse anyone gives to increase the repressive power of the bourgeois state under any pretext must be opposed by communists. Remember that the proletarian state has the right to use its revolutionary terror to socialize the economy and punish counterrevolutionaries as it pleases, since the state is an instrument of one class to oppress another.

There are many possible actions to be taken with wage equalization, unionization of all workers, the right to radical unionization to organize outside the control of the bourgeoisie or its state, advancement of the legal right to public defense, democratization of the legal and judicial process in addition to the guaranteed public legal right to legal processes for all workers to fight in solidarity together, adding to this with the socialization of needs so that the population has the right to housing, education, health, childcare as a social responsibility of the entire society instead of being at the mercy of all of this that will remain as commodities for profit in the market.

>>2669259
I gave you the Marxist answer here:
>>2670994


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