This site is full of Tankies.
remember Stalin killed all the bolchevique leaders that were key to the revolution and photoshopped pictures to remove them.
Lets have a place for serious marxists to talk.
Not enough imo, but hopefully that will change
someone post that Molotov quote about Stalin being a lamb compared to Lenin
I agree with you but you are being annoying about it. Also, all the "tankies" became multipolaroids. Just let them contradict themselves endlessly with their moralism.
On the one hand, every Communist party needs to purge opportunists to stay committed to its mission. On the other hand, every party that successfully purges opportunists gets accused in the historical record of being run by opportunists, who supposedly purged the committed true communists… the key is to remain skeptical of oversimplified historical narratives, regardless of who puts them forward…
>>2671675How do you call the revolutionaries, that made your position of power, "oportunists"?
Trotsky was a tankie, he defended the soviet invasion of Finland:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1940/04/finnish.htm>>2671672What did he mean by this?
>Unironically using tankie as a slur
Go back to reddit
>>2671735This isn’t 4channel
What are you worthless fags bickering about now?
I truly despise everyone on this site.
>>2671660>Wait, Stalin thinks it's a bad idea to mindlessly attack the capitalist world in a Permanent Revolution? Who cares about going through WW1 and a civil war that killed millions and destroyed the entire economy. We don't need an army, terrorism should work just fine.>Wait, the entire Party thinks I'm an arrogant idiot who's bad at building coalitions and constantly grandstands? But they should have made me the leader. They shouldn't have kicked me out!>Degenerate Workers State! The Workers must stand up by destroying the USSR! Also maybe the USSR should give up Ukraine because Hitler might be appeased. And thank you capitalist west for letting me live and give public speeches against the USSR when you could have me arrested and silenced, so nice of you…Trotsky sure was amazing. Brilliant really.
>>2671754He was based because stalinists piss and shit about him to this day even though he supported the USSR
>>2671752What about other sites though?
>>2671756He himself turned out to be nothing but hot air. What's annoying is his followers pretending he could have fixed everything and we would have communism now if only he was in charge. They have a persecution complex and lean into liberal moralism when convenient. But Trotskyists have no ground to stand on when sobbing about the purges when Trotsky wasn't against violent purges. Also calling the USSR supporters tankies when Trotsky was also fine with using military force.
I respect autistic do nothing Leftcoms more.
>>2671754>Trotsky sure was amazing. Brilliant really.to be fair when lenin managed to tard wrangle him he was a pretty effective revolutionary, even stalin said so
>>2671758>I respect autistic do nothing Leftcoms moreLets not get crazy
>>2671758This I can agree with
>>2671660>muh tankies>trotlmao, kys retard
>>2671754Trotsky never thought attacking capitalist world was a good idea, you are a retard who doesnt even know what permanet revolution is. It is about giving support to other countries to do their own revolutions, and not focusing in improving your own country, as that will fail inevitably. just look at the results of stalinism. USSR just failed.
Trotsky a terrorist? cmon, you are a complete retard
>>2671758>he turned himself nothing but hot airYeah, because he was fucking assasinated.
meanwhile Stalin died of aging, had all the power in his hands, and look at the results: USSR goes back to capitalism, everyone thinks comunism equals to famine and repression.
>USSR goes back to capitalism, everyone thinks comunism equals to famine and repression.
it's always funny when critics of stalinism only can reproduce left anticommunist or rightist talking points and pretend they have a basis in reality
yawn
>>2671831Op is a stalinist troll thoughbeit
>>2671826>just look at the results of stalinism. USSR just failed.the results of "stalinism" were the USSR not getting destroyed by the Nazis, between that and the fall of the USSR many other things happened
>>2671831>>2671835list of things stalin did:
>Killed all the revolutionaries who did the revolution>Photoshopped them out of pictures to look good>Supported the creation of Israel>Killed thousands of people of famine>Killed the revolutions of Iran and Greece, because of economical agreements between Britain and the like>Killed thousands of comunists>Raped woman >>2671732Lenin was absolutely brutal and was all about purging opportunists and revisionists, and consolidating power through physical force, including using secret police (the cheka) to execute opponents.
But liberals who come to communism from a "I like Lenin and Trotsky because they weren't TOTALITARIAN AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORS LIKE STALIN" perspective refuse to understand this.
i actually think that even Lenin was too soft
>>2671850all of those are fake esp the last one which is literally a fabrication by Montefiore which gained traction last year (i wonder why the bourgeoisie has a vested interested to smear his name)
>>2671851Lenin never directed his repression at the members and leaders of the communist party to anywhere near the extent Stalin did.
>>2671886maybe thats just because he died too early
>>2671888Yeah and if he had lived longer I'm sure he would have written a book about how you specifically were right about everything and anybody who argues with you on the internet is wrong.
>>2671826>It is about giving support to other countries to do their own revolutionsUSSR and China both gave tons of resources to countries who proclaimed themselves communist. Most those projects explicitly turned capitalist once the USSR dissolved proving it middling strategy at best. I'm not even saying it was pointless but just supporting outside projects mindlessly isn't a good idea because you don't control these movements. They can always go off the rials, making your investment worthless.
>not focusing in improving your own countryGreat way to be externally conquered by capitalists or Nazis in the USSR's case.
>just look at the results of stalinism. USSR just failed.Stalin was 80% right and 20% wrong. Yes, he made mistakes but it's not like he could see the future. ultimately the majority of USSR's failures and bad polices happened after his death.
>Trotsky a terrorist? cmon, you are a complete retardHe wrote an entire book, Terrorism and Communism, defending the use of terror. Funny thing is I don't disagree with him in principle. The main problem was he saw the USSR as illegitimate and was basically trying to drum up terrorism inside the USSR to overthrow Stalin. It ended up resulting in nothing of course.
>>2671850>>Photoshopped them out of pictures to look goodDamnatio memoriae is historically normal and I'm tired of liberals pretending it's not.
Both Stalin and Trotsky were opportunists
>>2671828>USSR goes back to capitalism, everyone thinks comunism equals to famine and repression.Under Stalin it achieved the peak of its power, wtf are you talking about? Stalin also was long dead when it reverted back.
>>2671906Why are you crashing out? I'm just saying I don't think Lenin would have been much different from Stalin, if you disagree I would be glad to hear your take.
>>2671928You need to invest in your army to defend yourself, sure. but thats not what stalin did. He thought he would develop his country so bad he didnt need others. He dismantled revolutions because he wanted to keep buying and selling with other capitalist countries. He thought USSR alone would bring comunism to the world.
Trotsky was against terrorism, there is a famous article by him talking how terrorism is useless and the one killed will just be replaced by another, the system will keep working the same way. Terrorism is just the only way the lumpemproletariat can do things, but it should be evited by organized socialists.
>>2672147>He thought he would develop his country so bad he didnt need others.The idea he was only for one country alone doesn't hold up. USSR is already several countries in itself and the eastern block is even more countries. It's true he did sometimes decide to sacrifice smaller communist groups for some larger political goal and sometimes he made bad bets. That's part of the 20% wrong that I talked about earlier.
>He thought USSR alone would bring comunism to the world.Never mind all the aid he gave to communist China including giving them all of Manchuria.
>Terrorism is just the only way the lumpemproletariat can do things, but it should be evited by organized socialists.This is only if you define Terrorism as small groups or individuals just randomly creating terror. This is a very limited view of what the word means mostly disseminated by liberals to exclude their own bombing campaigns and assassinations as terrorism.
Anyway, Terrorism and Communism by Trotsky argues that terrorism by the working class is fine but individual or small group terrorism is not. Agree or disagree, this is Trotsky's argument.
>>2671828>everyone thinks comunism equals to famine and repression.The worst Soviet famine happened when Trotsky was a member of the Politburo.
Trots act like their man was sooo different to Stalin.
For what? Beyond Internationalism (the Marxist position) versus Socialism in One Country (a Revisionist position), the differences are nothing more that Trotsky saying "I'd do what Stalin did but better!"
Both sides are just glorified Social Democrats who want an elite political vanguard, totally separated from the struggles of the masses, to become the new ruling class.
Get a grip.
>>2671919Because you are absolutely based and correct. The enemies hate you. You did things right.
>>2672451This, the average poster on this board fears admitting Stalin was right at the dinner table, let alone accepting they'd have to be every bit as "bad" as Stalin was… if not worse.
>>2671660photoshop wasnt around then i think
Every time an online-left+M-L pretends that the PRC has some >moral right to invade the ROC because of the traditions of dead generations, I laugh aloud. "this land was promised to us 70 years ago"
Taiwan is a strategically useful island. Don't pretend there's some righteous justification, or that you need a righteous justification, beyond "I think this Communist Party is progressive and the ROC is aligned with a capitalist imperial power. I believe invasion is a step forward on the path to a communist society."
>>2671670This. OP is a fag.
>>2672283Yum pankoek.
>omg two communists in a vanguard party advocated for a vanguard partyo rly?
The difference has serious broader implications. Look at the PRC. AFAIK most schools of Trotskyism interpret the PRC as a failed revolution which will not be able to establish socialism. Obviously this theory will change how adherents interact with China and issues facing it - while an M-L is more likely to see the PRC as a communist project and support the state less critically.
This doesn't inherently make a Trotskyist in opposition to everything the PRC does; for a similar case, my org did not take a pro-Ukraine stance in the ongoing inter-imperialist proxy war.
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