>muh global elite
>muh pedophile rulers
>muh normies rationalization
>muh conspiracies were true
Bro just say you aren't a communist lmao. I would still hate capitalists if they weren't pedos. Stop the moralism.
But these bourgeoisie….. THEY BROKE THE LAW!!!!!!!!
imagine my shock
>>2675269>we need another thread about thissincerely kill yourself.
>muh system
Like bro, I don't speak neonazi
>I know the bourgeoise broke the law
>but I forbid you to talk about it
huh?
>>2675360the communist stance is that we oppose capitalists because their material interest is in our liquidation, not because they're morally evil.
>we should kill the elites because they worship satan and ate babiesis literally peak peasant brain
Its called agitprop honey
>>2675540Agitprop is making fun of all the MAGA libs that have been supporting a pedophile ring for 10 years.
>>2675269finally someone with half a brain
>>2675521who cares about what *you* want lol idc about your vibes
>>2675540if you dont make the communist program the main point of your agitprop then whats even the point of bringing this shit up? not that propaganda is remotely an important element of class struggle anyway
This new and completely ahistorical tendency (yes it's a new tendency) of trying to on one hand paint propaganda that demonizes capitalists in moralistic terms among others as bad and also shooting down any further analysis of global capitalist networks and the internal intricacies of the global bourgeios as something 'un-marxist' is something that has to be immediately nipped in the bud.
Treating the bourgeoisie as this amorphous almost transcendental blob that flouts on a cloud as mentioned in the holy scripture is fundamentally idealist and has nothing to do with materialist analysis.
>>2675586>and also shooting down any further analysis of global capitalist networks and the internal intricacies of the global bourgeios as something 'un-marxist'thats a funny way of spelling "conspiracy theories" LMFAO
>Treating the bourgeoisie as this amorphous almost transcendental blob that flouts on a cloud as mentioned in the holy scripture is fundamentally idealist and has nothing to do with materialist analysis.cool, even more buzzword babble to justify focusing on individual shit and not what separates the bourgeois, small or big, from other classes
Hot take: I think that the bourgeoisie eating babies is good agitation against the bourgeoisie
>>2675597They'l just market vegan baby meat alternatives. Beyond Baby Burger.
>>2675595>thats a funny way of spelling "conspiracy theories" LMFAOThe whole concept of the 'conspiracy theorist' was literally popularized post-9/11 to justify the Iraq war invasion and paint the opposition (many of which was leftist) as looney. I am pretty shocked, that any respectable leftist would adopt such terminology which is basically akin to using Nazi lingo like Gleichschaltung or Mischling to make a point.
Can you please point out to me which part of my statement is confusing or incomprehensible to you? You seem to have a huge blindspot when it comes to this topic in 20th century Marxist literature. Marx himself very famously but only very briefly touched upon the interconnection of the capitalist class and organized crime when he wrote about strike breakers but he couldn't forsee the degree to which global crime syndicates form one unit with the capitalist states' intelligence and military apparatus to crush leftist opposition, organized labor and proletarian revolutions. If you need a literature recommendation on this topic I recommend radically leftist authors like C. Wright Mills' "Power Elite.
>>2675269>image of nazi catching undercover british because held up the culturally incorrect number of fingers when ordering 3 beers even though his german was perfecti never see this image used in a non-trolling context
>>2675269communism is when you cringe-police the angry proletariat for not using your precise autistic vocabulary at a moment that is particularly ripe for agitation.
>>2675618>dont look at these files! its a conspiracy theory! >sit down on a chair and just think and theorise about the bourgeois yeah i wonder why someone would want to push this line…
>>2675687What line, are you illiterate? I have literally posted half of the Epstein excerpts in the Epstein thread myself, LMAO. It's the guy I am replying to who said that we shouldn't care about that stuff. Apologize and read again.
>>2675401I don't care about your idealist spooks honey
>>2675274We clearly do since even without the /pol/ tourists this place and half the leftist internet is infested with unironic ZOGposters. Might help if this place actually had mods too.
>>2675269Curious nobody pulls this shit when it is Trump or someone else in trouble. Only when it is their fellow Jew. Dude it hasn't even been a week. You couldn't wait a week to start concern trolling
>well I am a communist and we say NO TALKING ABOUT JEFFREY EPSTEIN!<In fact it is highly sus that anyone here wants to talk about the criminal conspiracies of a Jewish person ever! YOU ARE ALL NAZISThe hasbara is way too obvious buddy. You have to tone it down a notch.
>>2677397You are just so easy to see through rabbi.
>>2677397>>2677401You gpt even less subtle after the OP too.
>>2675269The fact that they are worse than we imagined is worth bringing up.
Focusing on capitalist depravity is the best way to radicalize normies and PMC
>>2677404PMC will dilute and take over the movement
>>2677401kek. i'm not a jew, i can say russian saboteur russian saboteur zog zog as much as you want, do you really think your boilerplate opinion is worth presenting here? r/liberal might be more your speed if you want to post things of this level of quality
>>2677406You are right. Better to just give it to them before that. And what movement dude? We are just discussing a major current event and you are going:
>SHUT IT DOWN! >>2677409Communism is only about the working class and can only include tge working class
>>2677409Your moral outrage culture war nonsense has nothing to do with communism
>>2677408What question? I just observed how you guys react when a story involves Jews. If this was just about Trump and Musk and Bannon you wouldn't be calling anyone a Nazi for talking about. I think excess kvetching about the Epstein story will have the opposite effect.
>>2677411Ok… that could be said for like 99% of news we discuss on the board. I guess nothing has to do with communism. The concern trolling is too on the nose my friend.
>>2677412You clearly weren’t on this board for the two years following 10/7, unless Hamas are jews this makes no sense
>>2677412you're projecting your reactivity to news events onto others here. remember to consoom the latest news story after you get bored of the epstein files like the goycattle you are
>>2677414No, nothing the ruling class says or does matters to communism
>>2677415I was and the accusations of antisemitism were constant for just talking about it. Many many many times I saw the posts like:
>WHY ARE YOU POSTING SO MUCH ABOUT ISRAEL!? Don't you know bad things are happening in SudanI've seen that Zio talking point on many websites. The thing id the Zio never posts abput Sudan in any other context other tgan why it is antisemitic to talk about Gaza.
Lot of different hasbara like that was going around and still is.
>>2677416What? You are projecting whatever the fuck you are talking about onto my post you didn't get.
>>2677425explain how epstein is relevant to the communist project
>>2677421Every hasbara talking point was rightfully shut down and shit on by Hamas supporters
If mods don't treat these threads like the Hundred Flowers Campaign you are going to see unironic critical support for Fuentes and Candace on leftypol in like a year, maybe less.
The "anti-western left" outing themselves as seething antisemites was not something I expected tbh
>>2677436careful, they'll accuse you of loving israel if you don't want to play along with their braindead liberalism
>>2677436>>2677438You are right. I say the mods should do a blanket ban on talking about Epstein to be safe.
>>2677440
>Lol, They are all pakis or turks,
Too obvious rabbi.
>>2677441this but unironically, news addiction is actively making the left more retarded
>>2677446That is a good idea. Blanket ban on discussing any news story unless it involves communists or the communist project specifically.
>>2677447
I was already thinking about you because you already made the same thread as OP but he had the decency to wait 3 days to start kvetching. You did it like in 24 hours. Didn't yours get deleted?
>>2677459
Go bump it then. Can't we have just one dedicated hasbara thread about the Epstein thing? How many do we need?
>>2677473
Yours was better and way more subtle, you didn't just lean into calling everyone Nazis.
Watch him get banned for simply stating the trvth
>>2677436the crimes of capiralists still are worth denouncing, even with blatant samefags whining about muh noooticing that is obvious to know they are /pol/fag glowies
Funny nobody is upset about the Paki and Turks comment. I nootice there is only one group that inspires such defense.
>>2677502Free balochistan free Kurdistan and occupied Armenia
>>2677502zog zog zog zog JEWS zog
>>2677504That is just the Pakis and Turks posting that
>>2677512
Jews aren't even a race, they are primarily a religion. They are racially Polish.
>>2677518notice how nobody talks about the (((poles))) and everyone focuses on an irrelevant minority instead
>>2677544i understand why Muslims would jump at this considering how horrible and racist western media had depicted Muslims all these years but this is just embarassing man, these are the same guys who constantly write tweets about how Muslims are the real feminists while never saying anything about how normalized domestic abuse is in MENA
>>2675678I mean, it IS widespread practice for 21st century communists
>>2677411>being upset about raping and potentially EATING children is culture warCome on dude. The capitalists weren't this depraved in the day of Lenin. i
>>2677862Pretty sure communists always propagandized about the depravity of the Nazis and the Royals and stuff too.
I understand OP in that we should focus on systemic critique and not moralizing but noticing that the wealthy do depraved shit like the aristocrats of old and using that for agitprop isnt wrong
>>2677864> Without the tremendous class battles and the revolutionary energy displayed by the Russian proletariat during the three years 1905–07, the second revolution could not possibly have been so rapid in the sense that its initial stage was completed in a few days. The first revolution (1905) deeply ploughed the soil, uprooted age-old prejudices, awakened millions of workers and tens of millions of peasants to political life and political struggle and revealed to each other—and to the world—all classes (and all the principal parties) of Russian society in their true character and in the true alignment of their interests, their forces, their modes of action, and their immediate and ultimate aims. This first revolution, and the succeeding period of counter-revolution (1907–14), laid bare the very essence of the tsarist monarchy, brought it to the “utmost limit”, exposed all the rottenness and infamy, the cynicism and corruption of the tsar’s clique, dominated by that monster, Rasputin. It exposed all the bestiality of the Romanov family—those pogrom-mongers who drenched Russia in the blood of Jews, workers and revolutionaries, those landlords, “first among peers”, who own millions of dessiatines of land and are prepared to stoop to any brutality, to any crime, to ruin and strangle any number of citizens in order to preserve the “sacred right of property” for themselves and their class. <Vladimir Lenin, Letters from Afar, March 1917
> The tactics of the proletarian Party should be to use the fight between the liberals and the Purishkeviches over the division of power—without in any way allowing “faith” in the liberals to take hold among the people—in order to develop, intensify and reinforce the revolutionary onslaught of the masses, which overthrows the monarchy and entirely wipes out the Purishkeviches and Romanovs. At the elections, its tactics should be to unite the democrats against the Rights and against the Cadets by “using” the liberals’ fight against the Rights in cases of a second ballot, in the press and at meetings. Hence the necessity for a revolutionary platform that even now goes beyond the bounds of “legality”. Hence the slogan of a republic—as against the liberals’ “constitutional” slogans, slogans of a “Rasputin-Treshchenkov constitution”.[10] Our task is to train an army of champions of the revolution everywhere, always, in all forms of work, in every field of activity, at every turn of events which may be forced on us by a victory of reaction, the treachery of the liberals, the protraction of the crisis, etc. > [10] Rasputin, G. Y. (1872-1916)—an adventurer who enjoyed great influence at the Court of Nicholas II. “Rasputinism” most strikingly expressed the obscurantism, fanaticism and moral decay typical of the ruling upper stratum of tsarist Russia. <Lenin, The Fourth Duma Election Campaign and the Tasks of the Revolutionary Social-Democrats
>“The appearance in [the royal] court of Grigori Rasputin, and the influence he exercised there, mark the beginning of the decay of Russian society and the loss of prestige for the throne and for the person of the Tsar himself.”<Rodzianko, chairman of the Duma, writing in 1927
>Together with Aleksandr Guchkov he founded a liberal republican party in the Summer of 1917. After the October Revolution or shortly after the seizure of power by Lenin, he left Petrograd and moved to Rostov-on-Don and Crimea. Rodzianko supported Anton Denikin and Pyotr Wrangel but when it became clear the White Army had lost, <he emigrated to Serbia in 1920. There he wrote his memoirs The Reign of Rasputin: an Empire's Collapse.
>“If there had been no Rasputin, the opponents of the royal family and the preparers of the revolution would have created him.”<Yevgeny Botkin, court physician every capitalist in the world could be doing some secret mega jew baby murder ritual and it wouldnt change the fact that the impersonal dynamics of capitalism are what creates and enables these sorts of freaks
>>2677392>>2677401>>2677403>>2677421>>2677442ts is so embarrassing lmfao /pol/tards with a coat of red
i dont deny that jewish supremacists exist, never did. what I deny is this reduction of all the violence and moral decay to jewry instead of understanding how the real organization of people, the real organization of CLASS power, allows shit like this to happen in the first place
it doesnt matter what ethnicities partook in the rape and murder of all these children, what matters is the fact that there were ever people are objectively positioned to do what they did
you are nothing but clay for these people so long as you ignore the concrete reality in front of us
>>2675678>communist analysis is "cringe-police"kill yourself retard
>the angry proletariatyou mean online shitposters with lots of free time?
Notice how they won't reply to a sourced argument. Literally the whole argument they have is just calling you a Nazi and making up strawmen arguments.
>>2675269Actually it is good people find out the rich and powerful do literally meet in rooms and not on horsey merry go rounds in amusement parks to rape their children and live the life on their stolen money. Plus this site already has entire boards for "moralism" and you can even pick your favorites from them.
>>2677881>>2677881>“If there had been no Rasputin, the opponents of the royal family and the preparers of the revolution would have created him.”uygha do you even read the shit you quotemine lmfao
>>2677869And this shit is Gille de Rais or Elizabeth Bathory level of depraved. Even worse than regular aristocrats
>>2677905> To blame jews collectively Things no one said.
Very funny how you then turn around to do the thing you're claiming everyone else is doing. Did anyone else post a racial caricature of Jews ITT?
>>2677898To add to this, since at the moment conspiracies cant be called merely theories I have started and joined every conversation I can about the files and started dropping mass surveillance, war crimes, etc. with a prepared list of sources and how useless liberal and rightwing politics are against the horrors capitalism regularly causes, more often than not being directly in support of said horrors. Trying to lead the conversation towards communism best I can.
>>2677903>Even worse than regular aristocratsYou do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them".
>>2677907Half the retards ITT are focusing solely on the jew aspect instead of the bourgeois aspect, considering plenty of non-jews are involved too. Again, illiteracy prevails.
>>2677911>Half the retards ITT are focusing solely on the jew aspect instead of the bourgeois aspect, considering plenty of non-jews are involved too. Again, illiteracy prevails.Nope. You started this thread trying to slyly call everyone a Nazi, nobody took your bait, then you had to start more directly doing it.
>>2677911Nearly ALL of them are gentiles.
Nearly ALL zionists are Christian. There's more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists.
This is the legacy of /pol/ thinking in some of these posters. Ironic as /pol/ was founded by Epstein himself
Okay so it's cool they're pedos and if you hate them for that too you're just a fucking Chud. *pushes up classes*
>>2675269NOOOOO YOU CANT HATE SOMEONE FOR THE IMMORAL ACTS THEY COMMIT NOOOO
another example of contrarianism on leftypol. these uyghas just wanna disagree with everything. if 90% of people became communists leftypol would become a neoliberal board just out of spite
>>2677929>leftypol would become a neoliberalstop badmouthing our resident dengoids
>>2677534judaism is so fucking funny uygha is cleansing his soul by torturing chickens while watching family guy clips on his phone
>>2677884you had to misquote what i said just to respond to it with a non-argument.
>>2677929>if 90% of people became communists leftypol would become a neoliberal board just out of spitetrvke
>>2677932pvke
>>2677862>The capitalists weren't this depraved in the day of Lenin.The ruling class has been this depraved since class society started.
>CTRL-F : false dichotomy
>0 results
retarded thread
>communism is a subculture and you should be as unintelligible to "normies" as possible
FUCK YOU POSER IT IS YOU WHO IS NOT THE COMMUNIST. GO GET A SEPTUM PIERCING YOU FUCKING LIB
>>2680835shit nobody said award
I will say, the most "blackpilling" thing about the last few years is coming to understand that, despite the fairly sizeable anti-war sentiment and moderate support for a nebulously defined "socialism" amongst the West's centrists and left-libs, the desire to recognise the West as the "bad guy" in their Marvel-based framing of the world is essentially non-existent.
Whether it's invading countries for its oil, expending other countries in intentionally instigated proxy wars, supporting literal genocides wherever in the world it appears that Western influences aren't taking hold of society, or indeed having it proven that the outcome of impossible levels of wealth where the accumulation of more capital is no longer thrilling or meaningful, is the Bourgeoisie's culturally ingrained thirst for cruelty switches from economic deprivation to literal torture and other criminal acts unachievable by the "poors", all of it is framed as merely the result of a few bad eggs that are "letting the side down".
Ultimately, no one in the West desires its own defeat, it all needs to be retained and strengthened even, so that when the "bad eggs" are imprisoned and replaced by people with dyed dreadlocks, they'll use that power for good and attack the excesses of necessity abroad.
OP is correct that moralism is a problem.
>>2680847So western people should moralize about being the bad guys?
>>2680882
nice nazi meme bro
>They hated him for he told them the truth>>2675597>>2677404No one is being radicalized. Don't kid yourself. These people dislike the "bad capitalism" (child raping oligarchs).
>>2677432>We're gonna orbit different ecelebs and obsess over the latest moral outrages on xitter instead!Equally inconsequential
>>2680847By your own admission, you replace libtard marvel geopol with contrarian marvel geopol
>>2680884
Yes? Jeff Bezos was not in the Epstein files, does that mean Jeff Bezos is a good wholesome billionaire and him putting amazon workers in cuck cages is epic chungus 100? I'm not blaming people being angry at Epstein but you have to accept that this is a logical conclusion of basing your class struggle in morality
>>2680952This is also a result of a lot of leftoids confusing class struggle as a moral crusade. Recognizing that the local shopkeeper who volunteers in the community kitchen is a class enemy does not mean that you have to think of him as a child rapist cannibal, it means recognizing that his way of life is parasitical and unconducive to the creation of a whole human society, even if he individually might be a pretty swole guy and someone you'd drink with
>>2677534YHWH be like "I was about to send you to hell for killing innocent people but then you spun the chicken cage over your head so now you're OK"
how tf do people believe this unironically? is it infinity dimensional trolling? Are they pretending to be retarded?
>If you are disgusted by pedophilia and child rape you are a liberal and not a true communist like me and probably an antisemite on top of that.
Horrible horrible thread.
>>2680882
do you think the millions of non-jews killed in the holocaust were also fake or are you only a holocaust denier when it comes to jews?
do you agree with hitler sending jews to palestine or do you only like him when he wasn't doing incidental zionism?
Ok this has to be a poltard raid, they are being obnoxiously stupid and ignoring thoughtful explanations, daily reminder that if you are a antisemitic poltard you are literally Epstein's golem
>>2680958>Local shopkeeper is a class enemyThis is also flawed for similar reasons. The struggle is against capital generally. Not against particular classes. Stalin btw pointed this out correctly (the small business owner/artisan is also being squeezed and disciplined by capital). Bordiga made made a similar point. The reason the petite bourgeois are reluctant to embrace communism is psychological, as their sense of self-worth is tied up in nominal ownership of a sliver of capital. Even though they're forced to subordinate their lives to the latter regardless. The cryptodev techbro "prole" in LA making 6 figures has more to lose in financial terms than a fruit vendor in karachi who makes 7 dollars a day and can barely afford to feed his family.
>>2675562lol infantile retard
>>2680963>you HAVE to endorse the conspiracies being made in real time from this>you HAVE to throw out everything you knowfuck you, and fuck your "disgust"
>>2680966It is. I think Chagosposter is involved as well to be frank. There’s also been attempts to change the discussion to the topic of stolen land, simultaneously, from /pol/ to libshit subreddits.
We are definitely (collectively) striking someone’s nerve.
>>2680972i think the whole distinction of prole vs. bourgeois is to an extent outdated, we have to consider the drastic changes in class society since the second world war if we are to actually analyse how the world functions and has changed if we are to ourselves change that world
>>2680866>>2680948I was quite clear that they should desire the west’s defeat so that none of that is possible any more.
>inb4 cringe claim that the global south is primed to instantly replace the West as the global hegemon and take on the mantle of global oppression Whoever expects a ‘pure’ social revolution will never live to see it. Such a person pays lip-service to revolution without understanding what revolution is.
>>2675269Normies have the exact same reaction to you when you say "bourgeoisie" or "capitalist class" and will write you off instead of listening to your critique because they can immediately put you into a box and stop putting any mental effort into understanding what you're saying because they assume you fit whatever anticommunist stereotype they heard.
>>2680966There are four factions in this thread:
-The Orthodox who preach agnosticism or hostility on conspiracionism.
-Those that view Power Elite Theory as valid materialist analysis and an extension of Marxism in the 20th century.
-Actual anti-semitic Nazi poltards raiding
-Leftypol's resident loliposter faction that are trying to poison the well on any topic that involves noncery.
>>2680963Look I know you derive considerable ecstasy from believing your enemies are moral degenerates whilst pretending people here are supporting them and trying to convince you child sexual abuse somehow isn't gross. But none of that has to do with communism or marxism.
Most of us aren't working for pedophile bosses. No one is genuinely radicalized into embracing communism because of this. None of this is original either. "Billionaires are child raping vampires" was a thing 20 years ago. Variations of it were a thing too 100 years ago. It never leads to anything other than people being funneled into reactionary (anti-communist) movements promising to restore the "good" capitalism led by "good" patriotic capitalists.
I remember 10 years ago people were praising and promoting
Trump because he stood up to the child raping Clintons. There's Der Stürmer articles from ~100 years ago about rich syphilitic jews raping hysterical blonde aryans girls. It never results in (communist) revolution.
>>2680997>Look I know you derive considerable ecstasy from believing your enemies are moral degenerates whilst pretending people here are supporting them and trying to convince you child sexual abuse somehow isn't gross. But none of that has to do with communism or marxism.Yes it fucking does. That's like saying sexism has nothing to do with Marxism. Do you think that it's a fucking coincidence that the majority of victims where young women or something?
>I remember 10 years ago people were praising and promoting Trump because he stood up to the child raping Clintons. There's Der Stürmer articles from ~100 years ago about rich syphilitic jews raping hysterical blonde aryans girls. It never results in (communist) revolution.Ah, more well poisoning.
>>2680979>i think the whole distinction of prole vs. bourgeois is to an extent outdatedexplain why
>>2681017The sharty ultra troll that just arrived here a week ago and doesn't even know how to embed YouTube links is agreeing with your post.
lmao
>>2680993>Elite power theoryElite power theorists usually talks about entire (economic) demographics, Turchin for example focus on unemployed college graduates as degenerating elites, even Yarvin when talking about the cathedral means it in a systematic way of the matrix between journalists and regulators. Talking about child raping jews is not elite power theory its just an antisemitic canard
>Leftypol's resident loliposter faction that are trying to poison the well on any topic that involves noncery.Can you people stop harping on this shit? I have enough of lolisho vs yurifags shitting on each other on xitter, i'm sorry to say but your online culture wars spectacle is just that, spectacle, it has no reality in the real world
>>2680972I have to disagree with Bordiga here. Yes the fruit vendor in Karachi is in no way comparable with a techbro in LA but being a fruit vendor necessitates a condition where people are competing to get your merchandise and you are competing with other vendors to sell fruits, thus generating a mentality of man vs man, bellum omnium contra omnes. But that doesn't mean i am against allying with them, i am pro strategic inclusion of shopkeepers for the same reason i am pro inclusion of peasants and not just landless farm labourers, but i am using that as an example of why moralism is generally a bad yardstick to base your movement
>>2681021>ShartyLast week I was a poltard, make up your mind
>Doesn't know how to embed linksI know how pussy feelsz how about you?
>nooo nooo stop misgendering the rulling class nooooo stop calling them a pedo deathcult nooo real communism is when you invisibilize the depravity of the bourgeoisie noo!!
>>2681022How about you go back to fucking Twitter then and take your strawmen with you. This whole nonsense on how the existence of a globally spanning child sexual abuse ring is supposed to be completely divorced and independent from the class position of their perpetrators is utter nonsense. The whole Elite Theory concept of Higher Immorality is completely dependent on class position.
>>2680975Who are you quoting? The person you are replying to didnt say any of that shit lol.
>>2681041This person you are responding to here is part of faction 4
>>2680993They think disgust at anything involving child abuse is just some expression of a type of Christian Puritanism or moral panic or something, even if it deals with actual child rape.
>>2681040> This whole nonsense on how the existence of a globally spanning child sexual abuse ring is supposed to be completely divorced and independent from the class position of their perpetrators is utter nonsense.It is utter nonsense. Elite theory concept of higher immorality doesn't mean that every elite is a rapist cannibal, it means that they viewed non elites as means to an end which is pretty consistent with Marx's view on alienation of humans from their species being. The manifestation of elite immorality is the normalization of buybacks and austerity, not rape or individual sadism (although elites will protect fellow elites who do commit such a thing, from a sense of class consciounsess)
If you think that SAing minors is just an elite thing how do you explain the predominance of sexual assault against children in broken,lower income families? How do you explain rape cultures in nations like India(rape culture also exist in the US, i'm using them as an example of a more proletarianized country). Actually read about the things you are invoking man
>>2681047>buybacks and austerity, not rape or individual sadismNo one was talking about individual sadism, holy fuck, but the existence of a global and institutionalized child trafficking ring. How about you learn to read and stop using shitty strawman fed through chat gpt?
>>2681054>no one was talking about individual sadism, but aboute a global and institutionalized connection of people who performed individual sadismyou are just doing motte and bailey here. I am not disputing that elements of the bourgeoisie can be sadists and monsters, and they can link up together with other sadists, but the reason why you bring up
>This whole nonsense on how the existence of a globally spanning child sexual abuse ring is supposed to be completely divorced and independent from the class position of their perpetrators is utter nonsenseis explicitly because you think that this networked form of sadism is something uniquely bourgeois. It is not. If you mean it in the sense that bourgs are being subjected to double standards in terms of law enforcement, then i apologize, because that is a sober analysis. However the way i read your post is that you are advancing this sensationalistic, Eyes Wide Shut view of bourgs
Everyone of every class is capable of being a monster, bourg just have the time, money, and resources to pull it off without legal consequences. That’s it, there’s nothing else to say.
>>2681047the epstein ring is different because its a way bigger operation, with direct impact on politics of the world and law will never apply to them, thats part of their class character, you are being retarded
>>2681063yes, i explicitly mention that in my post
>>2681058, the power of the bourgs means that there is a double standard and disproportionate impact of whatever cruelties they decide to inflict on the rest of us. What i am disputing, in case you didn't read my post, is the replacement of sober class analysis with (justified!) moral outrages
>>2681063Western politics were fully zionist long before the Epstein ring and they will be long after. This mossad operation, like most intelligence operations, is just keeping busy, looking busy, and justifying your budget for the next year.
>>2681067yes dumbass otherwise you will fall for "what about the good bourgs" propaganda, why are you people so retarded
>>2681071I knew I was supposed to hate Engels
>>2681072good bait have a (you)
>>2681060>Everyone of every class is capable of being a monster, bourg just have the time, money, and resources to pull it off without legal consequences.This is way to weak of an assertion. This is fundamentally an essentialist view. The reason why they are able to get away with it and are able commit these things comes fundamentally down to their class position, this is not 'just' a mere byproduct of it.
'If other people had the opportunity and the resources bla bla they would do the same' is equivalent to 'If they had the same class position', dude.
>>2681072i know you are jorking my ass but this is actually a good point. If you think that bourgs=child rapist pedo you have to think that Fred Engels is a child rapist pedo
Adopting a sober class analysis means realizing that a bourg can be good person individually, and they can even sympathize with the cause, but it is their role in the division of labour, as exploiters and perpetuator of "man against man" which makes them an enemy, not their individual self
>>2681076sorry, anon, but this is basically just "absolute power corrupts absolutely" which is peak lib dumbassery.
>>2681076There’s plenty of working and lumpen pedophiles out there though, they mainly target their family members
>>2681083im not saying that you cant do that chuddy, you can hate Epstein for raping kids and exploiting the workers, but what is happening in this thread is that people forget about the "exploiting the workers" part in favour of more lurid analysis
>>2681018new classes have formed in the past 180 years that have in part changed the dynamic from prole/bourg that have changed has changed from revolutionary proles and complacent ones along with typical bourgeois elements
>>2681044meds, i don't like such a thing
>>2681083taking an opinion no one seriously holds, here's the actual opinion
>using the epstein sex trafficking ring as a way to make a moral argument against the bourgeoisie while taking in absurdities with minimal evidence will lead to conspiratorial thinking, and degrade your ability to understand what the world iswhat you see
>disliking epstein is moralist >>2681141that doesnt mean the bourg/prole distinction is outdated, in fact it is presupposed in what you are saying
>>2680959One man cant do it. It is spontaneous.
>>2681081>sorry, anon, but this is basically just "absolute power corrupts absolutely" which is peak lib dumbassery.isnt this literally a scientifically proved thing
>>2681263it is proven. But cigar poster is as bad as leninhat poster.
>>2681263>>2681271Scientifically prove it
>>2681263It absolutely is not "'proven scientifically", experiments that people cited to "proof" it like the stanford prison experiment was heavily criticized for spotty research methods and inability to be replicated
>>2681081>>2681263Peak liberal dumbassery is when you adopt the moral essentialist view that some rich people happen to have a good/bad essence and some poor people happen to happen to have a good/bad essence that this is supposed to be completely divorced from class society for some reason which is ludicrous, supposing that they are free individual actors making individual moral decisions quite literally is a core tenant of liberalism.
Yes, if you interpret power as in economic power in the sense of a superior class position is being a corrupting influence then this aphorism holds absolutely true.
>>2681285But what about le class traitors?
>>2681285Some people are unfortunately sexually inclined toward those that cannot consent, whether it be the sleeping, animals, the underaged, there’s probably a mix of genetic and epigenetic factors that produce such an outcome. These people can be lumpen, working class, labor aristocrats, petit bourgeois, or haute bourgeois. Lumpen, working, and poorer petit bourgeois pedophiles usually exclusively target their families as the family unit is sensitive and full of secrets anyway (sometimes you have a priest or a teacher or a school janitor). Those in the haute bourgeois class have wider access, better legal shielding, and the ability to pay for the silence of their victims as well as political protection because they’re the current ruling class.
>>2681296There is nothing in here that contradicts the statement it is replying to.
>>2677881bestiality is gross and degenerate but still not as bad as the epstein stuff
>>2681296Per the emails many members of the ruling class were bringing their own children to the island, presumably for SA
>>2681308Nor is it really meant to
>>2681313For themselves personally or were they trading each other’s kids the way swingers do with their spouses?
Starting to think that the guy with the cigar is harboring some weird psychpatholical anti-proletarian ressentiments, likely a result of their own personal class position which is the peak of irony, really. Even bourgeois social science has shown that anti-social behavior peakes among wealthy people and people of lower social strata are shown to be more generous, and this is something even the least class conscious individual you will ever know has picked up on. It radiates from all this babble about how working class families are supposedly all incestous child abusers.
It's almost like when you are without capital, when you can't buy people and their services like objects or commodities you are required to engage in a minimum of pro-social behavior and solidarity for your own survival.
>>2681313The creepiest ones are where they list the ages of the kids.
>>2681285it is your belief that is closer to moral essentialism dumbass. There is nothing in your class structure that dictates how your moral beliefs should be, otherwise Americans, who are pretty much labour aristocrat in comparison to the global proletariat, should all be racist pedophile rapist cannibals
The part about anti social behaviour peaking among wealthy people is about
>>2681321 how wealthier people will normalize sociopathic behaviours that reinforce their class position; not that they will become complete antinomians who go around SAing children
what you are trying to do is not Materialism. Its trying to tie your perception of morality to class position, so you can end up in a simplistic prole=conventionally morally good, and bourgs=conventionally morally bad. But what Marx pointed out about alienation is that
everyone is socially alienated with their species being,
regardless of their class position , and that this alienation can be overcome after communism, not that proles are kind and wholesome reddit benefactor.
>>2682073addendum: we know, thanks to the advancement of psychological sciences today, that anti social behaviours like sociopathy and psychopathy, and anti social symptoms like BPD and DID and CPTSD happens regardless of your class. The "your morality is immanent to your class position" people do not understand how to explain this, because in their view if you are a prole then conventionally good morality is somehow immanent to your behaviour, and this is considered materialism to them.
These people also could not explain why it is poorer countries, with higher concentration of proles, that have a lower trust society where you are incentivized to grift and destroy common goods for profit, and why is it that the richer a country becomes the more high trust it becomes.
The root of this confusion is that the pseudo-materialist confused class interest with Conventional Moral Goodness. They believe that because you are a prole, then you are good (in the Marxian sense, namely that you have revolutionary potential). The pseudo materialist confuses the Marxian definition of good, with the Moral definition of good, which means that they unironically think that if you are a prole then you are a good person who doesnt kick puppies or beat up minorities for fun. And if you are a bourg then you have to be an evil cannibal jeffrey dahmer tier rapist. But none of this is scientific
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