Theres not enough pushback against the EU.
Look online, look at plebbit, look anywhere, its all pro-EU propaganda, there are rarely any platforms to be against the EU. This is one of the few places where you can shittalk the EU without having hundreads of libtard elitist faggots reply to you with their bullshit.
WTF?
There are tons of places to talk shit about America, but there is next to no organized platforms condemning the EU. And the strangest thing is that brainwashed EU citizens don't think they're tied to the US's geopolitics, they think they have freedoms and are prospering.
As for organizations against the EU in real life within european countries, all of them get accused of being pro-Russian, and even if they are pro-Russian that's the fucking good choice. 99% of the ukorp propaganda is financed and ran by the EU neoliberals.
A ton of the pro-Israeli propaganda is also financed and ran by the EU neoliberals, not as much as the US but still, a ton.
Ledditors on r/Piracy complain all the time about the IP bullshit that's literally being pushed on them by the EU and US but you say something bad about the EU and they call you a rashist and slava ukraini. Who do they think invented patent laws and IP? Fucking subhuman libtards.
the same way the petit bourgeois control the narrative and only shitting on the haute bourgeois is acceptable but the moment you shit on the not as wealthy and not as propertied middle classes you are le evil and le bad you can only shit on the US and israel but not on any other bourgeois nation state
/europol/ manages to be more retarded than /usapol/
incredible
the EU is a useful contrapole to the American empire, their divergent interests have been rapidly sapping consent for US hegemony and the UK and canada are looking like they're on the european side.
without the EU there is no meaningful way to prevent the US soft power from playing european states off of one another, and the trading bloc is in the best interest of all parties in the EU. while it would be beneficial to end all remaining regimes of colonial subjugation by EU member states, the EU is an important axis of resistance to Trumpist fascism. most importantly the EU wields a sattellite network and nuclear deterrent that is key to long term regional stability, if the bloc were to collapse then all authority in the region is handed over to the americans with little recourse to capture their nuclear silos.
finally, as a bloc they can pivot to china and turn global hegemony on its head. separately they can individually pivot to china and be preyed upon by amero-russian backed separatism, sectarianism, and fascist terror just like ukraine was.
your shitty thread has no posters in it because the premise is stupid.
>>2678471>support le smaller business bourgeois countrykys my man
>>2678472sorry that the reality of geopolitical contest under threat of imminent nuclear holocaust favors larger political blocs. nevermind that anti-eu populism is a reactoid position. my support doesn't change shit: the EU is going to outlast trump's cholesterol clogged brain and heart, and even if it wasn't: attempting to break it up is a fools errand, and only has downsides.
hang your local eurocrat.
kick the balls of your local eurocrat.
burn your local EU supporter
EU has been nothing but a imperialist disgrace in eastern europe.
the EU destroyed visegrad and balkan economies.
the EU terrorizes africa, middle east and latin america
Fuck the brussels german-french imperialist diarchy
>>2678475>le realpolitikok just dont call it communism or pretend you are one lol
>>2678457I just wish people on the left didn't put their head in the sand about the fact that EU positioned itself as the opposite to the communist international project and made every effort to fuck communists over, with more enthusiasm than Americans. Their whole project is just not compatible with communism, therefore the EU has to go. And it will because euro ruling class is so powerless against America that a 10% raise in tariffs is enough for them to yield on Greenland. At the same time they're losing all industry to China so there is increasingly no foundation of power.
Yes it's very unfortunate that they were able to hurt so many Ukrainians in such an insidious way but that's increasingly not an issue, maidan itself was EU's last gasp of expansionism and the world has become even more hostile to them since then.
Statistics I see show a widespread discontent with the state of things and the EU project as a whole, except it's disorganized and there is no party so the disintegration will come from capital itself after President Asmongold demands it.
>>2678475It's a neocolonial instrument that already caused a 20-30% drop in population of some European countries. I get the idea that the alternative is Americans still having control through establishing relations similar to ones they have with Israel but the EU is already doing everything Americans want so that state of affairs will leave them and capital as a whole with less control and the working class with more opportunities.
>>2678483psch nothing personnel kid
but honestly the national sovereignty issue is libtarded and non-materialist. every EU citizen is wealthier and the bourgeoisie have way fewer jurisdictions and borders to abuse for tax evasion. plus this way it's only one revolution to cap the metropole.
>>2678492lack of access to education and employment caused a 20-30% drop in population in those countries, and I'm pretty fucking sure everyone who left to get a trade, degree, or job in the north was happy they got the opportunity to do so.
>the EU is doing everything the americans wantthey're regulating american tech companies, restricting US imports, organising international action against the US over greenland and venezuela, and pivoting to china in real time.
sure they're hedging their bets waiting for daddy to put his pants back on, stop pissing in the ball pit and drive them home from maccas and that won't happen but their eventual emancipation is going to cost the US plenty.
>>2678497
>What are you smoking?
The continuity of agenda pack. Liberals like you seethe about an old retard with dementia when what the executive branch of the American government does is exactly in accordance with plans made before him getting to power. EU may outlast Trump (he's old) but it certainly won't outlast the think tanks and interest groups who wrote his policy. Now go back to Snopes.
>>2678497
You are a fucking imperialist apologist, the working class will never concern to "bowing down to putin" because they already worry on their life needs, bills.
Fucking PMC eurocrats are the one chirping their concern trolling bullshit about how the EU is "institutionally better" than america or ziggastan. you are another disputing imperialist bloc that manage to be worse than russia, you all are illegitimate occupiers of eastern europe
>>2678500>EU may outlast Trump (he's old) but it certainly won't outlast the think tanks and interest groups who wrote his policy.It fucking might.
the US thinks it's too big to fail and is pushing itself towards collapse in the belief that their trade partners will bail them out when trump's golf buddies are done buying every stock, bond, and parcel of land in the US. the thing is that all the intrinsics are fucked. there's fuck all productive base in the US, american products are inefficient or error prone, and the infrastructure is gutted. trump is holding bullshit. I'm getting the impression that trump completely deregulating shale oil in 2016 burned through the reserves of the primary input to his economy.
what happens if they call? the bonds default, the stocks crash, and the land needs to be sold for use value and not speculative. can't use any of it as collateral when the banks are going bust. if they make it that far without everyone shooting everyone: still a total wipeout.
it's one big bubble, and deepseek proved it's easy to throw darts.
>>2678500I won't pretend I understand that.
>>2678505There's a lot of bitching in the east about EU, even from elected leaders when they try to make their countries autocrat. I don't remember anyone forcing a country to join but I guess EU money tastes good right?
>>2678510the EU allowed france and germany to buy the formely nationalized industries of warsaw pact by cheap.
look the relations of hungary and germany, plus it is interest of ruling classes of eastern europe to collaborate with the EU
>>2678510They literally got color revolutions from the west and put out jews like Solomon Pasi to quickly put them into EU and NATO
>>2678516Orban is not of the ruling class?
>>2678517A little jewish world conspiracy, how radical.
>>2678492This, the EU is just the liberal version of comintern
>>2678527Lol no russian saboteurs involved in color revolutions, only hwites
even doe that one in peculiar's own wiki admits he was a key figure in pushing towards the EU and NATO
>>2678510The EU money started flowing about one or two decades after Western advisors instructed ex-Warsaw Pact and ex-Yugoslav countries to destroy their own industry. Many times factories were bought by Western competitors of their original owner and were purposefully left to rot. Privatization was an explicit condition for joining the EU and it had be thorough. The former communist countries that were able to join the earliest had to wait for 15 years before receiving membership.
Obviously EU subsidies only fund non-productive investment, mostly in public services, and never in real production where the recipient countries might use it to get back on their feet. The reason why these countries need handouts to maintain public services is precisely because they were told to commit economic self-mutilation by the EU before joining. Also much of these subsidies flow back directly to Western multinationals.
Nowadays the EU leadership has become so stingy that they gave up on further EU enlargement, because they don't even want to give back a tiny bit to these countries when the EU has the economic might to subjugate them anyway. I'm talking about the Balkans of course. Montenegro for example has adopted the euro as its currency when many EU member states still refuse to do so.
>>2678510The money flow is to the west. Whatever western taxpayer gives, western capital gets more and that's the point. The working class in both halves is exploited and enslaved through these programs.
>>2678457The EU is an irrelevant joke. Being against it is like being against the Pacific Islands Forum.
(Actually, that's unfair. The PIF at least has the Treaty of Rarotonga.)
Unless you want to laugh at what a bad idea that Euro was, there's little of substance to deal with. Look at Britain: A shithole American puppet state in Europe, a shithole American puppet state out of Europe.
p.s.
It doesn't help that most of the time, anti-EU parties are just right-wing retards and their support base are genuine imbeciles and bastards. This is certainly the case in Britain, where age and education are far stronger predictions of anti-EU sentiment than economic or class position. /leftypol/ of course likes the lexit meme pushed by a handful of socdems at death's door, but their fantasies of turning the block back to 1975 have no relationship whatsoever to any actually-existing policy pursuits. actually-existing Brexit has been one big joke. Quite a funny one if you don't live in Britain.>>2678535>Obviously EU subsidies only fund non-productive investment, mostly in public services, and never in real production where the recipient countries might use it to get back on their feetThis seems like spin. The great thing about productive investment in a united economic area is that you don't
have to subsidize productive investment because capitalists will engage in it on their own. Hence the massive amount of German car parts that are made in the former Warsaw Pact countries. (e.g. the Volkswagen Up is made in Slovakia, Revoz in Slovenia make parts for Renault, etc.)
You can of course argue this is exploitative and is just shifting production from high-cost domestic workers in France/Germany/Italy to lower cost foreign workers, but that's quite distinct from the idea that the EU is just leaving these countries with no manufacturing base whatsoever.
>>2678535seems like this is an indictment of the post soviet transitional governments and not the EU persay. the wait time and privatization regimes were a shit deal, but clearly not bad enough to return to the communes or restart the factories. you guys had marx and lenin in the curriculum and still trusted the capitalists.
>>2678547>You can of course argue this is exploitative and is just shifting production from high-cost domestic workers in France/Germany/Italy to lower cost foreign workers, but that's quite distinct from the idea that the EU is just leaving these countries with no manufacturing base whatsoeverIt is still true for Balkan countries like Romania and Bulgaria, where many people would starve without seasonal work in Western Europe.
The emerging trend of euro politicians justifying neoliberal austerity through anti-Americanism is the funniest fucking thing
>Citizens! We must cut your healthcare to fund a european army! It's the only way to stop Trumpist imperialism!!
Neither washington or moscow (brussels)
>>2678564And they brainwashed many of the citizens to blame all wrongs on Putin and shill for Ukraine.
>BUT PUTIN HAS CHILDREN'S BLOOD ON HIS HANDS HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT? Maybe Zelensky should give up since Ukraine started it against russian minorities.
>PUTIN WAS ALSO IN THE EPSTEIN LIST! And what did the list say about him? That they tried to swindle him with deals and when they couldin't they backed russian opposition…
>WHATEVER YOU SAY RASHIST, KEEP THE RUBLES GOING. SLAVA UKRAINI! I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU -50000 REDDIT KARMA AND DOX YUO AND HARASS YUOR RASHIST FASCIST ASS!!!Zzzzzzzzzzzz
>euroman why do you support the union of european bourgeoisies?
<but PUTLER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Trvkenuke. Yurop is a dead end. Its the liberal endgame and if yuropistan collapses (which it will) they will eat eachother alive. Sadly this blow will likely come from the right.
>>2678492> 10% raise in tariffs is enough for them to yield on GreenlandAnon its the Americans who yielded on Greenland, and now Germany is talking about nuclear weapons, they're signing trade deals with China and LatAm, have established a rearmament program, etc. The Euro-American split is already proceeding and there's no reason to think that it won't.
>>2678556>post soviet transitional governments and not the EU persayThey were basically just following EU doctrines and western consensus, putting the blame only on them is disingenuous, especially alot of those parties didnt last long when they implement those reforms. Thats how you get right wing socdems nationalists like in pooland.
Russiaboos on this site are the only people more cringe inducing than Europhiles. If you're going to fetishize some stupid bullshit, at least fetishize wealth instead of poverty and the gayest forms of masculine LARPing.
Americans are truly blessed to not have to care about this bullshit. (Though admittedly often dumb enough to do it anyway)
>>2678457>Look online, look at plebbityeah, good, ok
turn off the computer, faggot
>>2678631And coming from a country that benefits quite alot (atleast when it comes to trade) from eu membership, the current trajectory looks like a looming major war either this decade or the next. I think this war (doesnt matter if the EU somehow survives it) will basically be the start of an european "century of humiliation".
>>2678460>the website full of bots sayswho cares
>>2678634>Fetishize wealth instead of povertyAgain another reason why yurops are known to be obnoxious faggots, fuck off
so no one is saying anything about OP's blatantly reactionary picrel to represent the EU..?
>>2678643t. Tedious first world loser fetishizing other people's poverty
>>2678457Aren't there like hundreds of euroskeptic parties across EU nations? I mean, it's all mostly just right-wingers who are anti-immigration, but still serves anti-imperialist goals in a pragmatic sense.
>>2678687euro'leftists' have abandoned everything to the retarded right
eurocommunism was a mistake
>>2678649What's reactionary about it?
>Star of david representsZionists and iSSrael
>Trademarked progess flagRepresents the pinkwashing of imperialism done by the UE in the name of "hooman rights"
>Azov flag, NATO and FBISelf-evident
>Amalgamation of bottom-right symbols and ©These are about bureaucracy and concessions done to repress communism
>papal symbolProtecting clerical pedophiles
>Allah symbolidk, maybe they represent UE supporting jihadists abroad in Africa, the Middle East and Xinjiang to try to attack socialist or anti-imperialist projects
>>2678694Come on Anon, you know that this could just as easily represent how the EU are woke libs who work for the Jews and want to import Muslims to replace whites and turn kids into fags. Given that right wing thought is so much more prolific than left wing thought that was almost certainly the intention behind this image. It would absolutely be at home on /pol/.
>>2678471Bruh, Europe, the continent, is literally littered with dozens of US military bases and tens of thousands of burger soldiers. This is no sovereign bloc, you moron.
>>2678623China should let the europeans starve, so the rest of the world, as they contempt the americans, dealing with euroaches will soon blowback as the EU now can "assert itself" without the need of a US shock collar
I desire nothing but the end and destruction of franco-germam imperialism and the EU
>>2678475>anti-eu populismYou are unironically a neoliberal labour aristocrat shill.
>>2678501>Internationalism is when you support an imperialist powerhouse that feeds on the world vampire-likeKys
>>2678707>China should let the europeans starveThat would be extremely stupid even from a purely self-interested Chinese point of view. China has an interest in multipolarity and the breakup of the imperialist bloc, they should be doing everything possible to encourage European strategic independence and the Euro-American split. Europe alone (or America for that matter) will never be as formidable a rival for China (or communism) than a united transatlantic bloc. Remember that the US effectively checkmated the Soviets by forming an alliance with China in the 70s. If they had done the opposite and driven the Soviets and Chinese back together, then they might not have won.
>>2678687It doesn't. The UK is not one iota less imperialist for having left Europe. If anything, it is worse. There is no reason to suppose other countries would be any better.
>>2678699Why then it has an Azov flag and papal symbol?
Maybe it was some kind of duginist/fourthpositionist eurasianist zigger
If you changed the MAP flag for something representing the Epstein files and the Allah symbol for something representing ISIS it could be a good flag
>>2678715The split between Europe and America is really breaking some multipolarist brains.
>Multipolarity is a reality! American hegemony is dead!<European independence? Absolutely impossible, it will never happen. America will be dominant forever!>Multipolarity is good for communism, we should be encouraging it<Fucking Euroids, I hope the EU is smashed into a million pieces and cannibalized by the US empire It's clear that people have not yet seriously examined this new geopolitical paradigm or how communists should navigate it.
>>2678725>Why then it has an Azov flag and papal symbol?There are pro-Russian Nazis on /pol/, though they are the minority. A lot of rightoids also hate the papacy for being too woke and liberal.
>>2678728Okay thanks
Do you have any idea of what the eagle is?
>>2678727Something you don't see discussed on leftypol frequently is how will finance capital react to the tension between the EU and the United States. The natbourg of the US seems to want to sacrifice the national and financial bourgeoisie of its trade partners, primarily the EU and China, for their own gain. This is a massive conflict of interest and finance capital will be forced to take a side sooner or later.
>>2678732I think it represents the austrian school
>>2678535Based EU-understander.
>Obviously EU subsidies only fund non-productive investment, mostly in public services, and never in real production where the recipient countries might use it to get back on their feet. The reason why these countries need handouts to maintain public services is precisely because they were told to commit economic self-mutilation by the EU before joining. Also much of these subsidies flow back directly to Western multinationals.Example: Hungary recieves EU "gibs" (in reality: an insignificant portion of the enormous profits EU-core economies shovel out of the country is returned, presented as an act of goodwil) for the country to build new multi-lane roads.
Oopsies, you want to build roads with EU funds? You must comply with a hundred pages long set directives that are defined in a way that only German companies can comply with! Oopsies, you privatized your road building industry to German multinationals who let it rot and closed it? Oopsies, we advised you to do that?
You better make a tender now so that at least 3 German companies can make a bid for the project in the name of transparency and due process and what not.
All the """gibs""" you were given landed back in our pockets?
O O P S I E S ! ! !AND THEN UNIRONIC NEOLIB "LEFTIST" SHILLS FROM SAID IMPERIAL CORE COUNTRIES CALL YOU A FASCIST POPULIST WHEN YOU WANNA LEAVE THIS WEALTH-EXTRACTION MACHINE!OOPSIES, IF YOU DON'T LIKE US BEING LITERAL VAMPIRES FEEDING ON YOU YOU IS ADOLF HITLAR!! >>2678736Nothing is preventing Hungarians from leaving the Union.
>>2678734I definitely wouldn't call any force in America "natbourg" since they still very much want to maintain an American Empire. It's just a question of whether they will ditch the post-WW2 approach (inter-imperialist multilateralism, allies/satellites as the basis of their global of their power, America as first among equals, etc) for a 19th century approach (America as a unilateral great power practicing open colonialism). The question you're asking is of course valid, and I would expect American finance capital to oppose a turn away from the postwar strategy. However the Europeans also get a say in this, and if they feel that the relationship with America has been irrepably damaged then it won't matter if American finance capital chooses to maintain the alliance. They need European finance capital on board for that to happen.
>>2678736nooo don't set common standards across a multinational bloc and require competitive tendering so that each country can't just engage in corruption and subsidization of value-destroying "industries", I LIKE when state funds are funneled directly into the pockets of whatever mafia crook has the ear of the inbred retard who's bought the government this year
>>2678742if Europe wasn't utterly impotent it would boot them. That's what makes all the whining about being oppressed by Europe so funny. Just about the only time
anyone in Europe has actually been "oppressed" by the EU is that time Catalan separatists got arrested and sent back to Spain on a European arrest warrant - and that only worked because the Catalan separatists were naive enough to believe not just that the EU was all about liberalism and democracy (lol), but naive enough to believe it would actually stand up to a member state in the name of those beliefs.
>>2678742No but that would require an actual confrontation with the ruling class which rightoids like Orban will never do.
>>2678744lol it's always the neoliberals who claim public tender contracts are perfection and state-backed national enterprises are irredeemably corrupt. fuck off porky. it's not the method it's the class. competitive tenders is just the mafia crook whispering into the ear of the government but with an extra bureaucratic step. you will not get rid of this type of corruption until you get rid of the entire class. notice how the USSR didn't have a problem with every country within their sphere of influence trying to build their own domestic steel industry. redundancy = development. inefficiency = jobs and growth. you lot will celebrate youth unemployment hitting 40% because you're so far up your ass with delusional CGE trade modeling you've completely lost sight of what's actually happening on the ground.
>>2678736And its the classic anti-EU argument of contrasting reality of EU as a neoliberal institution (point nobody here disputes) with what exactly? Some hypothetical fantasy of AES? Hungary joined EU in 2004, do I have to remind you what previous 15 years were like? Alternative to united Europe is Europe of petty right wing US lapdogs. How are you different from american "states rights" guys?
>>2678727I think factor here is that multipolarists threat geopolitics like a theater drama, good guys vs bad guys. Gives them feeling of psychological security in this ambiguity ridden world of ours. Introducing any 3th side undermines that fantasy.
>>2678755The alternative exists literally right next door in Belarus. Collectivized agriculture, nationalized industry. Trade with whoever you want on your own terms without being locked into a monetary straitjacket that will literally start fining and penalizing you for boosting social spending or investment.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2026/01/20/stability-and-growth-pact-council-opens-excessive-deficit-procedure-for-finland/ >>2678751state backed national enterprises are not
inherently irredeemably corrupt but assuming good faith in the case of the ex-warsaw pact countries is laughable naivete. corruption may not be entirely eliminated, but there's a big difference in quality between the anti-corruption mechanisms of Germany and those of Hungary even today.
for heavy/strategic industry (which road construction isn't really, lol, any idiot can build a road) the problem with the EU is that its a half-way house that pleases nobody. if it wasn't a stillborn joke, you'd have union-level industrial policy like the US.
>>2678757just don't join the euro lol
never forget that joining the euro is optional (and stupid), all countries and politicians that did so are just stupid.
one must commit to join the euro to join europe, but it is trivial to avoid actually doing it: just don't join the exchange rate mechanism. a euro entry requirement is stable membership of the ERM for a few years, so no ERM > no Euro.
>>2678592>Sadly this blow will likely come from the right.Europe is ruled by "culturally progressive" neoliberal technocrats. It's already right wing.
>>2678755>I think factor here is that multipolarists threat geopolitics like a theater drama, good guys vs bad guysThere's definitely an element of that with some people. Thinking in these terms leaves them unprepared for when conditions change and actors they previously considered "bad guys" are now, according to the principles they themselves espouse, playing a positive role. Virtually every criticism of the EU made ITT is accurate, however its also very clear that the existence of the EU is necessary for Europe to break free of American dominance, and that this in turn would basically guarantee the destruction of global US hegemony and the unipolar world order. This puts some people in an uncomfortable position I think, since it forces them to change their position on the EU if they are going to be consistent in their reasoning. I think this is also why a lot of people are so insistent that there is no real split between the US and Europe, since it allows them to cling to the outdated roles they've assigned.
>>2678634>fetishize imperialism (of which I am also benefitting as a labor aristocrat) instead of anti-imperialism (which would hurt my class interest)B L A T A N T
>>2678764>russia is anti-imperialisti believe the australians say "yeah nah cunt"
>>2678690>eurocommunism was a mistakeIt was a contradiction in terms, to begin with. "Euro" communism will happen when we'll consider the fake ass continent not as Europe, nor as "Eurasia" (enlightened centrist), but as Asia proper.
Already we have trve mongols in yurop: finglanders, hungaroids, Lithuanians. The rest is basically languages originating from fucking India, with a few exceptions.
"Whites," le "aryans", are Jewish niggers in denial, unironically.
>>2678715It was never an option. It's your idiotic fantasy, you fucking shill.
>>2678777Just make everyone chinese, all the world is a rogue chinese province
>>2678732>Do you have any idea of what the eagle is?It's the Austrian eagle combined with Mises family crest
>>2678742The two strongest political parties (Fidesz, Tisza) are.
Fidesz:
>Back in the day young neoliberal lawyers who were taught in Brit universities on Soros money(Yes, anon, Fidesz fears Soros, because they
were Soros funded anti-communist agents.)
TISZA:
>headed by a literal "ex"-Fidesz apparatchik who """turned against""" Fidesz after he lost his apparatchik job for being a retardBefore them: MSZP/SZDSZ:
>union of literal neolibs + socdems who continued the privatization push post-regime change and were literal compradorsBefore them: MDF:
>THE regime changers, literal Christian-democrat EU- & privatization fetishistsBTW, the latter 2 (3) are now destroyed, Fidesz will collapse too, then TISZA.
More immigration into the EU, have it be enough that the EU can merge with the Arab League
>>2678744>competitive tendering is when only German industry can winL I T E R A L
S H I L L
>>2678777>Already we have trve mongols in yurop: finglanders, hungaroids, Lithuanians>Lithuanians?
you mean estonians…?
>>2678748>if Europe wasn't utterly impotent it would boot them. That's what makes all the whining about being oppressed by Europe so funny.But it is opposed to the economic interests of the EU haute bourgeoisie to boot countries from which they extract surplus value, you drooling retard.
There's a fucking reason why VolksWagen/Mercedes auto-parts are made in India, assembled in Hungary, and finally sold in the EU-core. A Marxist reason you literal fucking labor aristocrat neolib S H I L L S pretending to be """leftists" will NEVER even care to understand because of your class interests! >>2678755>>2678755>Hungary joined EU in 2004, do I have to remind you what previous 15 years were like? Meanwhile, in reality, after the regime change, Hungary had 3(-4) governing parties, all united in their desire to join the EU, all doing the economic bidding (privatization, economic ruin, anti-union, etc.) of the "friendly" EU advisors.
You must remember that classic pic of Osama Bin Biden being a brave "anti-communist hero" then 9/11 happens, iirc from the NYT.
You could literally make the same pic with Orbán from Die Zeit: from hopeful reformer anti-communist to the bad boy of EU.
>>2678768It is against your class interest to recognize anti-imperialism. It is in your class interest to label anti-imperialism as imperialism.These 2 sentences are 110% factual and true.
Kys
>>2678800>>2678811Why do you have typing quirks of 65 year old facebook boomer? Whats up with that?
>>2678796Dat. Always got my balts wrong, sry
>>2678814I get more replies (=more success) than u, bby.
Your labor aristocratic ways are made apparent to more posters.
Enjoy being shat upon, dear """""""leftist""""""", while actual Marxists destroy your optics with facts and reason.
;^)
>>2678757>The alternative exists literally right next door in Belarus"Be like Belarus" is not a winning platform anon, nobody wants that.
>Collectivized agriculture, nationalized industryYou should look into what policies anti-EU parties advocate.
>Trade with whoever you want on your own termsYou cant trade "on your own terms", you trade on terms agreed upon with your trade partner, which are going to skew towards benefit of more powerful party in negotiation. This is why national sovereignty for European countries is a nationalist delusion, it equals being reduced to satellite of major powers.
>>2678821>"Be like Belarus" is not a winning platform anon, nobody wants that. I do want that, but then again I'm from an imperialized nation, like Belarus, against being from an imperialust nation, like yourself.
So obviously, when your labor aristocrat ass says "nobody wants" to imitate Belarus, you are talking about your immediate environment of fart-sniffing labor aristocrats.
Please keep posting so that I may keep destroying you.
P.S. you WILL turn fascist as the liberal you are, when le push comes to le shove.
Russia is the rightful hegemony of Europe, it’s the only way either of them can be independent
>>2678457what is this OP image meant to convey? that the EU is too nazi? too muslim? too LGBT? too jewish? too corporate? too monarchist? too American? this seems like a /pol/cel batch of complaints that has nothing to do with class struggle.
>>2678821>You should look into what policies anti-EU parties advocateThere are a shitton of EU-skeptic/hard anti-EU commie parties all around Europe you C O N V E N I A N T L Y decided to ignore, in alignment with your labor aristocrat class interests, you fucking shill.
>>2678828Eu is schizo is the most benevolent interpretation.
>>2678833Independence from the EU is an ultra position, you’re objectively weaker and will be raped by the US
(which is to say fascist)
>>2678828Yeah, that is a pattern you will notice when dealing with anti-EU elements.
>>2678822No, according to you guys I am from nation oppressed by EU.
>>2678833Give me some examples. And after you give them, I am going to point out they are all irrelevant within their own countries and as such leaving EU would benefit only their right-wing rivals who actually hold power in local politics.
>>2678837>according to you guys I am from nation oppressed by EU.Name it.
>>2678838For small countries it is
>>2678715the only way to "decouple Europe" from the USA is literally to destroy the EU you moron
>>2678727>split between Europe and America the one that happens in your dreams ?
>Multipolarity is a realityit is emerging, but it is not there yet
>American hegemony is deadit is dying, but it is not dead yet
>America will be dominant foreveramerica will dominate europe as long as EU exist. The only way to have european independance is EU destruction
>Multipolarity is good for communism, we should be encouraging ityes
>Fucking Euroids, I hope the EU is smashed into a million pieces yes
>cannibalized by the US empire what? they already are being "cannibalized by the US empire", and it is done through the fucking EU you idiot !
the only hope of a strong independant europe is the destruction of the EU, that you somehow associate the EU with "independance" or "multipolarity" when its clearly a tool for vassalizing europe to the US empire (and force neoliberalism in europe) shows how little you understand about it
>>2678833Because they're irrelevant losers. A handful of socdems and communists wanted a left wing Brexit. Guess what they got? (Spoiler: not what they ordered!!)
>>2678837>Give me some examplesStart googling "political parties of [x EU country]" one by one (as you should already have, newfag), and you'll find them yourself.
As I said, there are DOZENS of actual commie parties shitting on the EU.
>>2678845Now name one likely to be part of a governing coalition with enough leverage to decide what exit will look like.
>>2678842It really isnt "ultra", you are misusing that word. It is obviously a delusion though.
>>2678839Ex east bloc.
>>2678845Please address the rest of my point. Also
>>2678844>>2678843>the only way to "decouple Europe" from the USA is literally to destroy the EU you moronWhy? Explain how would that work. I mean anti-EU parties are overwhelmingly pro-US, so their victory would lead to exact opposite, no?
>>2678837>If an anti-EU communist party comes into power AND leaves the EU only benefits the right-wingNeolib brains are built different.
At the end of the day for them: commie = fascist = totalitarian = george orwelles animu farm 1984
Filth.
>>2678848>If an anti-EU communist party comes to powerThat's some fucking "if" lmao
>>2678848>If an anti-EU communist party comes into powerAre there currently any for whom that is real possibility? Or would leaving EU make it more likely for one to get into power? Or build actual communism once in power?
Lmao if you think a dozen independent European countries will fare any better against the US than the countries hat made up Gran Colombia
>>2678843>the one that happens in your dreams ?It's already happening. The Europeans are signing trade deals with China and LatAm that bypass the Americans, they're undergoing rearmament that reduces their dependence on the Americans, and their even looking at expanding their nuclear arsenal.
>the only way to "decouple Europe" from the USA is literally to destroy the EU you moronHow do you figure that? The only way European countries could ever confront the US is through a maximum of unity, cohesion, and cooperation. Individually and without any mechanisms for collective action they are far too weak to accomplish this. The EU like all bourgeois institutions is a vehicle for the interests of the ruling class. If you're going to argue that it's going to continue indefinitely as a tool to keep Europe subjugated to America then you have to demonstrate either that the European ruling class wants this alliance to go forward despite it no longer serving their interests, or that the Americans somehow control the EU over and above the interests of the European bourgeoisie.
>>2678858>support the consolidation of western european imperialism to fight the usmultipolarity really is one of the greatest grifts ever
>>2678862Because Europe cannot survive a war with America or with Russia, despite the trade agreements all the Euro bourgeois are invested in the American stock market, they would sooner slice the throat of their first born and hand it to Donald Trump to east as a burger than to give up the anti Russian and anti Arab racism that is their whole being
>>2678866There isnt a unity on the topic (European arms companies are certainly salivating at the though of EU military independence), but broadly speaking you are right when it comes to business elite. However politically it is becoming increasingly unsustainable position.
>>2678844BREXIT (which os breakfast) was always already "leftist" for the singular reason that it fractured the dominant imperialist bloc.
This is what you, spectacle/idpol-brained retards will never ever get.
It doesn't matter if britbongs voted for BREAKFAST for the "wrong reasons" (e.g. racism), what ONLY matters: the results.
The results?
Imperialist bloc got more fragmented, hence weaker, hence FALC ce closer.
That's IT.
I'm not a fucking gay/lesbian, latino/african, feminist/trans, etc. idpol brained retard.
I'm a simple fucking prole, and that by itself is no "identity" for whose "acceptance" I must "fight for" inside bourgeois society.
The only thing that I'm interested in is achieving communism, because that is my sole class interest.
I will resist your attempts of anglo-boxxing me and my class into 300 genders, ethnicites, races, cultures, identities - whatevers, because that only would fracture us.
I'm a genderless, raceless, cultureless, identitiless SURPLUS-VALUE PRODUCING SEMI-HUMAN THAT APPEARS IN BOURGEOIS ACCOUNTING MERELY AS VARIABLE CAPITAL.I literally don't give a shit about britbong boomer racist retards making the right choice for the wrong reasons.
The West must burn, fracture, start (actual) inter-imperialist (possibly world) wars against each other so that my
CLASS INTEREST may win.
You fucking disgusting labor aristocrat "oppressed" """leftists""",
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!(
This post has been Chagos-approved even before him seeing it.)
>>2678874The imperialist bloc is no more fragmented you stupid retard, Britain continues to bow to both America and Europe on everything of any consequence.
"the only thing that matters: the results"
The fucking NERVE to say this about the biggest nothingburger in history.
>>2678828Already discussed here
>>2678694 (and following posts)
>>2678879>The imperialist bloc is no more fragmented you stupid retardIn that case you'd have no reason to be se butthurt about BREXIT (which is Breakfast), you retarded labor aristo.
Britain got poorer and got more immigrants and now a hitlerite party is in charge, I don’t see how this is communist advancing, they didn’t even leave NATO, the US can shut Britain’s nukes off remotely
>>2678896>Imperial-core country got worse, I don't understand how that advances communismRead the Book, lmfao
>>2678894Since Brexit UK has been even more of an obedient lapdog of United States, lives of its people gotten worse, and just wait till you Nigel Farage gets to be PM, during Trump's visits you are going to witness the kind of subby shit you normally see in BDSM porn videos.
>>2678898They’re still getting immigrants, thus the brain drain continues and no productive forces are being built as a result, what’s positive here? What’s being built?
>imperial core labaristos reading
>ever
Do you have Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism on NEYFLIX?!
>>2678902What good does reading do anyone? It isn’t productive, you aren’t doing anything
>the most reactionary elements who are most pro-EU are fucking Britbonger "leftists" who are still sour about BREXIT
So predictable, dude, I'm ashamed I couldn't have predicted it.
In any case:
<B-but how does Breakfast advance communism
Idk, man, your boot ceasing stomping on our heads seems like an improvement. It's almost as if CAPITAL EXPORT (crucial term from The Book) has become less dominant from Britbongistan since Democratically™ decided upon Breakfast.
(You literally won't understand any of this, btw. Which adds a second layer of funni to all of this.)
>>2678907Still in NATO, still exporting capital, still importing labor, nothing has changed
>>2678901>What’s being built?In brutal honesty?
Your status as a labor aristocrat is being dismantled and your future status as proletarian proper is being engineered.
Protip: you will NOT like it
>>2678907Britain's net foreign investment position is negative and has been for a long time. That is to say, Britain is a capital importer with the world's boot on its neck.
Once again Brexit changed nothing.
>>2678909You will never have factories with thousands of proles working together in any imperial core factory ever again, nor will they live in the same neighborhoods and go to the same cafes and bars to further their class consciousness. Even if manufacturing returned to the imperial core each factory requires about 10 to 12 people, it’s automated enough for pensions and stocks and a million other ways to keep the labor aristocracy as the only laborers. The revolution is not gonna be from the service sector. Deliveroo will not be deleted.
>>2678908The most enlightening line in this schizos rants is
>I'm not a fucking gay/lesbian, latino/african, feminist/trans, etc. idpol brained retard.This is the main reason why he seems to have such a vested interest in reactionary freaks getting control over Europe, he sees it as a bastion of evil progressivism.
>>2678917If the class war is already lost, why not throw people that aren’t in your demographic under the bus? Who cares? Them and their families? Lovers? Fuck that idpol
>>2678694This is exactly what the flag meant with the exception of the copyright symbols which represent the cancer that is intellectual property laws imposed, which are also one of the most cancerous inventions of colonialist europeans.
>>2678787Its quite literally the symbol of austriety - of the austrian school of economics.
>>2678908Uncultured, historically illiterate, lib-brained, hopeless retard.
>Still in NATOWith Breakfast your country became an internal dissenter, which was always the case inside European history. The UK was historically always on the side of pitting great European powers against each other so that it may continue its (then) colonialist and (now) imperialist ways. This is literally happening right now as an ex-EU member UK is the most fervent pro-Ukro power while the """"continent"""" (already an anglo meme, ideologeme) is having second thoughts about that shit.
>still exporting capitalIt shrank, you mongoloid, especially to the EU-periphery, you laboraristo twat. TESCOs started closing in Eastern-Europe, for example. Yes, this is fracturing and measurable shrinkage.
>still importing laborLess from EU-periphery, more from third world. Which is to say, unracistly, that you cut yourself off MORE from more educated (ex-AES) variable capital more in favor for less-educated.
>nothing has changedThat would mean you'd have ro stop crying about Breakfast, but you won't, because it does the kickening in your economic balls.
Seethe, cry, labaristro.
>>2678916Produce 1 (one) bullet, plz.
>>2678921Could you replace the MAP flag for another pedophile symbol (like Epsteon)? And the Allah symbol for a Jihadist flag? Please
>>2678921>>2678922I bet when you watch WW2 documentary you get confused by all the buddhists.
>>2678924What does tesco closing in eastern europe have to do with anyone’s status as a labor aristocracy in the UK? Everyone with a job there is a labor aristocrat, that’s why anyone moves there, it’s better to be be driving Deliveroo than to have the M19/Rwanda making you mine coltan at gunpoint
>>2678917>Conveniently disregards the most radical part of the post (variable capital rant) to reinforce his percieved victimhoodClassic idpol angle
>>2678926I wanna get a reloading kit, centerfire rifle ammo is expensive
>>2678931Absolutely nobody in this thread in any way mentioned gays or transsexuals or feminists. But you decided to for some reason to bring it up as something tied to EU and relevant to your opposition to it.
>>2678927I'm not adding photos onto a flag so no to the first, and for the second it was either that or a crescent moon with a star but the crescent moon with a star generally mostly refers to turks whereas they've been weaponizing islam as a whole. A jihadist flag could only be something like a generic shahada which still ends up with the name of Allah, so it seems like a pointless task trying to tune it down or replace it with something else.
But it was just an image meant for the OP so whats the point? If you want an image for yourself to use just edit it yourself to your own liking.
>>2678937Okay I will,
I will post it here when it is done
>>2678936>nooo imperialism must go on because otherwise europedos will go fascist without treats and start killing each other in the streetslol?
>>2678924It did not meaningfully shrink. The best you can say looking at the numbers is that it's a wash.
>>2678919>Muh gay/lesbian/trans loversBitch, the last of these ppl I met was in a factory and they didn't push this fucking idpol bullshit about them being fucking gay or whatever, because they were immiserated proles and that was the main thing that mattered to them.
P.s. when this fellow coworker prole came out to me as gay when we worked in this hilarious Scientology-owned factory in Hungary, my first act was to hug him, because I know he gets it harder
I would
NEVER hug a p-bourg or labor aristo gay, fyi.
You are my class enemies.
You will never understand this because all of you are libfash already, hiding under "culturally progressive" flags.
After I hugged my gay prole coworker we had a long discussion about how (wrongly) did AES policy fucked his kind. I, as an unelected representative of the ~200yrs old communist movement have officially asked for his forgiveness for our idiocy, btw. These are the fucking nuances that EU-core labor-aristos will never get, btw. Just because I'm anti-LGBTQIA (an anglo construct, hated by the Chinese, for example,) I'm not anti-gay. My main enemy is class-collaborationist pseudo-polotical categories, like "LGB as such." Bitch what kind of LGB? A p-bourg gay? A lumpen lesbian? A haute bourg bisexual? Fuck off with that shit! I'm 200% behind gayfags when they happen to be proles and 300% against them when they happen to ve my class enemies.
>inb4 banDude, I'm telling you I hug gay proles if they dare to come out to me because we built trust even tho im a straightfag
Like, can you NOT be an anglo for a second?
Thx
When you argue about stuff like capital movement, could you post your sources/graphs, so that the conversation doest no deteriorate into repeating "nuh-uh" to each other.
>>2678945I am asking you, why did you bring it up? Why was that relevant to your critique of EU?
>>2678930>What does tesco closing in eastern europe have to do with anyone’s status as a labor aristocracy in the UK? <What is imperial plunder shared with the labour aristocracy?!The. Book.
Read. It.
After you did I'll give you current date updates to it, very empirical and theoretical as well.
But you won't read it .
>>2678935>Absolutely nobody in this thread in any way mentioned gays or transsexuals or feministsOP pic? Which I already said was schizo, but exactly as schizo, which is to say fascist, good representation of the EU?
Keep up, ADHD labour aristo!
>>2678936Literally the first victims of post-Breakfast voote was Polish and Hungarian immigrant workers (which is to say "mein Eastern European Volk," lol) and it still does not alter the absolute fact that Breakfast in the long run helped pave the way for communism.
You are so idpol-brained, it's incredible.
>>2678942Yes, comrade, absolute fucking lol.
>>2678943Miss me w anglosplaining, please.
>>2678955You were not responding to OP, but to a guy pointing out that brexit did not lead to ascendancy of left wing in UK, but exact opposite.
>>2678947You are addicted to Reddit "fact-" "checker" institutions, fyi.
Google it, ya cunt
>>2678962I tried, could not find. You got a link?
>>2678960I made several >implications ITT that I shit on the so called "left-wing".
I'm not left-wing. I'm a Marxist.
Yes, this distinction eludes the class-collaborationist imperial-core labour-aristocrat mind.
You are almost ontologically inable to grasp what I'm saying.
You can literally be pro-gay(proles, etc.) while being anti(LGBTQIA), for example.
You can be literally be more (culturally, or otherwise) progressive than the cultural policy of the (ex-)EU.
It's called communism.
>>2678973Which is all fine if it was written as response to someone saying EU is good because it supports LGBT or something. But that is no the case. If you are so concerned with class above everything else, why are you the one injecting "idpol" into conversation?
>>2678982
>>2678982
I appreciate you formulating an honest and inquisitive question for once, really. Honestly.
I shit on idpol because it is a bourgeois spook. (Yes, I'm goin the Stirner-way, even as a Marxist, because it's the shortest route.)
The main difference is: identity is a construct of a combination of societal and individual collaboration. Your class position, however, is an objective factor.
Do you understand the difference?
Class position is an objective factor says the EU member state quasi first worlder with an ego complex in a state with a current account surplus
>>2678862>Europeans are signing trade deals with Chinano they dont (the trade deal is in negotiation since 2013), they're putting tariffs on their cars though
>LatAm that bypass the Americansyay, german cars for brasil beef! good bye euro beef industry, masterful play (why would the US be involved ? how does that change anything about dependence to US ? we dont depend on US beef and the deal was in the pipe before trump)
>they're undergoing rearmament that reduces their dependence on the Americansno, because the rearmament is mostly the buying of americans weapons, and the rest is building of weapons systems using their components
not mentioning these weapons are then sent to ukraine to keep destroying europeans interests and do the US bidding
>The only way European countries could ever confront the US is through a maximum of unity, cohesion, and cooperationno. You remind me of our stupid center left libs, "the only way to confront the far right is to do a big left unity that protect the status quo!", blind to the fact the only result is the far right rising even faster and the left loosing all credibility and collapsing
the europeans countries have consistently been less united and less cooperative toward each other since the EU, its purely for the benefits of the porkies. France was 100 times more independent and able to resist the US before the EU.
>The EU like all bourgeois institutions is a vehicle for the interests of the ruling class>this alliance to go forward despite it no longer serving their interestsI've told you repeatedly but you simply dont learn : europorkies see their interest in the global US empire, not in their country of origin. Their wealth isnt made locally anymore. Our biggest billionaires superporkies all went to bow to trump. Why do you think globalized finance centered on the US result in magic national fidelity for porkies ?
>>2678986>Class position is an objective factorIf biology can be considered an objective science so can Marxism.
Evolutionary biology looks at how species prey or parasitize or synergize with eachother in order to propagate a strain of interconnected actualized DNA.
Same can be said about Marxism.
There are outright predators (countries waging blatant imperialist wars, for example), blatant parasites whose only means of propagating is through surplus value extraction (bourgeoisie), and symbiotes of both kinds (secondary/tertiary parasites, e.g. labour aristos, vs. multipolaristas, symbiotes of other classes of ppls who resist said preys and parasites).
It is literally that simple, dude.
I don't give a shit how many genders you have or how many woke ancestral bullshit you have or how many oppression points you've accumulated throught your years of existence.
What matters, in the simplest terms:
>Do you live off of your own labour or off other's labour?There are degrees of answers. You can be the most "oppressed" fucking labour aristo (e.g. lesbian Latam autist, whatever) and still benefit from African child labour in rare-earth mines. You can be the whitest, most anglo-saxon fucking industrialist heir, and still your food on your table, the heating and your electricity in your house comes from fucking economic exploitation.
Just like how certain genetic strains of phenotypes (which is to say the ONLY form of how DNA can appear and function in the real world) reproduce as individuals OR as species, society, human class society follows very similar rules.
Do you understand, child?
You being autist is not an objective factor inside the sphere of objective modus operandi of societal reproductiont even if it gives you meaningless oppression points. An albino ape carries no objective effect on the reproduction of that species.
Do you understand?
That's why I don't give a single fucking shit about you putting your weewee inside a bagingo or a anus.
>>2678984>identity is a construct of a combination of societal and individual collaboration. Your class position, however, is an objective factor.That is a bizarre and undialectical view of the issue. I mean societal factors are objective. Is a woman fighting for her reproductive rights engaging in "identity politics"? A trans person desiring access to medicine? Ethnic minority wishing for equal treatment? These identities are not one-sided, person doesnt just pick them, they are enforced on them by society. You can identify whatever you want, but others will still treat you how they see you. Class position is a social relation, a complex one, and mostly "objective", but even it has a subjective factor of self-identification (a class consciousness).
But all of this is besides the point, because it does not explain why did you bring it up into the conversation. Now the reason why I get so hung up on the issue is that my local """communist""" party also likes using this line, above how modern left is too preoccupied by identity and gays and stuff, instead of focusing on economical issues. But they dont talk about economic issues, they talk about how we should talk less about gays. Its just a thin cover for cultural conservativism. They are also anti-EU and during election entered coalition with right wing parties, and ended up eating shit of course, because everyone whose main politics are anti-EU and anti-gay is just going to vote right wing proper.
>>2678993>France was 100 times more independent and able to resist the US before the EU.Idea that France had any meaningful independence from USA during post-war reconstruction era is a French nationalists fiction. That is when they joined NATO and EU!
>>2679003Also to add, creating EU was largerly motivated by french desire to create european counterbalance to US hegemony.
>>2678993>no, because the rearmament is mostly the buying of americans weaponsThat isn't true. European arms manufacturers are already undergoing expansion of domestic arms production, and are on track to surpass US production in some areas. Germany alone will produce more artillery ammunition than the US by 2027.
https://www.thedefensenews.com/news-details/Germanys-Rheinmetall-Aims-to-Produce-15-Million-155mm-Shells-Annually-by-2027-Outpacing-US-Industry/>the europeans countries have consistently been less united and less cooperative toward each other since the EUThat's a different argument. If you want to argue that the EU undermines unity and cohesion more than it supports it then that's one thing. But the principle remains that Europe can never be independent if its member states are divided. Its also worth noting that this how the Americans see things as well, and they regard the EU as an obstacle to their dominance of the continent.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/trump-eu-break-up-italy-hungary-bloc-b2882684.html>europorkies see their interest in the global US empire, not in their country of originSorry but this is just Kautskyite nonsense that has been debunked in recent years just like it was debunked in 1914. If it were true then there would never be any basis for conflict between capitalist powers. If the international bourgeoisie are so intertwined then why would there be any cause for conflict between the West and Russia? Why would the US threaten European colonial interests in the first place?
>>2678866>Because Europe cannot survive a war with America or with RussiaEurope has nuclear weapons, which means conventional war with either the US or Russia is effectively out of the question for all concerned.
>the Euro bourgeois are invested in the American stock market Globalization and cross border investment did not stop inter-imperialist conflict in 1914, and it won't stop it today.
>anti-EU thread
<Turns out to be a anti-BREXIT ""leftist"" UK labor aristo thread
Curious?!
I remember, btw, that one true Brit comrade who showed statistically, how the most worker inhabited neighborhoods in the UK voted overwhelmingly pro-BREX, while the most aristo regions vooooted aanti-BREX.
>>2679003Your whole angle comes from struggling for bourgeois rights. My whole angle comes from how society is reproduced. (And by reproduced I don't mean "how is babby formed" but how fucking economic system maintains itslelf via producers of economic values and those who parasitize upon that.)
Your whole bourgeois framework is so alien to me, lmao.
I'm literally talking ro an alien, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm saying:
>bro, I work so I can feed myself, my family, my landlord, and my porky, so that we may continue this cycle – and I want to end this fucking cycleYou're saying:
<Sure, but what is the color of your skin?<What is the gender of your child?Bro, idgaf about all of that. I want the garlic option to my vampire problem, you absolute MORON
>>2679017>Your whole angle comes from struggling for bourgeois rights. My whole angle comes from how society is reproduced.So what issues exactly count as "bourgeois rights" and which are "economic"? Is workers protesting for better wages bourgeois? Demanding better social services from state? When they are physically assaulted by police, is police reform a bourgeois right? These things dont exist independent from each other. Dissecting social totality into discrete spheres is useful for purpose of analysis, but you should not fall into error of treating those abstract constructs as real things.
>>2678631right, and they didn't have a single economist to run some numbers on how economic shock therapy was actually going to go? by all accounts polish workers thought capitalism was going to give them free hamburgers, cars, and blue jeans and instead they were unemployed overnight. in the present day they're a bunch of reactionary flogs that went from being holocausted to white supremacist anti-russian slavs. none of it makes any sense.
>>2679025>>>>>>>>>>>>So what issues exactly count as "bourgeois rights" and which are "economic"? Simple.
<What gets us the soonest to a DotP (the political expression of the proletariat to a superstrucural question?Is it maybe,
>What degree of gay are you?🚫
>What yo colour of skin?🚫
>What you think about…🚫
Or:
<How do we, as the socio-economic class being parasatized upon, end this shit ASAP?!💯
>>2679047Then should you not support strenghtening of EU institutions and economic independence from USA, as continental economic command and control infrastructure has to be put in place for communism to be possible? Or political unity that would allow for closer cooperation of workers parties? I fail to see how dismantling of EU would hasten communist revolution.
>>2679055the EU has existed for what, 70 years now and workers parties have been doing worse and worse with each passing year
if anything the EU ensures that a workers party can never seize decisive power and must always defer to neoliberal eurocrats
>>2679029>none of it makes any sense.All of it makes sense. The materialist says irrationality exists not. You may call schizophrenia as a bunch of nonsense of a removed individual, while I point out the social construction of the schizophrenic and his self-defensive fabrications of reality. Yes, schizophrenia makes sense, this is hiw so: A -> B -> C.
Does it make sense from the PERSPECTIVE of civilized, "normal" society? Answer is ambigous. For example hunter-gatherer (le jungle gang) societies have a recorded (by Western™ anthropologists) history of elevating tribe schizos to saman status. Is the shaman "normal" in that jungle society? Absolutely! He's an organic part of it! Is he "civilized?" Well, no, actually, he needz these pills from modern gigacorps to take thrice a day, to get his fucking """brain chemistry""" normalized, even tho he was a completely incorporated member of a human (albeit jungle) society!!!
BTW, the biggest red pill that has come from the West and became a taboo in the Weat the last 2 decades is this: the schizo morher fucker REVEALS how our "sense", how or human rationality, law, our very language is "irrational", which is completely RATIONAL if you look at it from a human-removed perspective: us being a collection of atoms and quarks and shit attempting to grasp the world as very limited beings…) All of this is rational, explainable, moving, changing, real. "Irrationality does not exist. >>2679068Well they are doing better in the west than in eastern europe, so I dont see how we can blame that on EU. Hell, western socialist support have been of great help to our local orgs.
>>2679009>Across both panel data sets, the researchers found the likelihood of a Leave vote increased as property wealth increased. In the Bank of England data for example, a standard deviation increase in property wealth increased Leave support by as much as 7.1 percentage points.>And although the researchers acknowledge that poorer areas of the UK were more likely to have voted for Brexit, their work shows it was wealthier people within those areas that were more likely to support leaving the EU while relatively poorer voters supported Remain. https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/study-finds-wealthy-more-likely-to-have-voted-for-brexitlol
the strongest demographic predictor of brexit vote is education, followed by age, followed by shit-area-syndrome, and as it turns out "shit area syndrome" just subdivides the whole thing again: stupid old well-to-do cunts voted for the dumb risk and younger, poorer, better educated people did not.
"worker inhabited neigborhoods" is a meme category that i seriously doubt exists in any dataset (workers even live at SW1A 1AA you know!), suggesting that the actual data is some bad joke like vote by NRS social grade. e.g. vaguely where you stand in the british class system, where a train driver on £60k a year is working class and petit bourgeois plumber is working class but a nurse on £31k a year is middle class, and where class sticks around, caste like, so that if a miner retires to live off rental income he nevertheless remains salt of the earth instead of ascending.)
brexit is on the whole a nothingburger either way. i am not anti-brexit, i am anti brexiteer. almost all demographic data has desirable people voting against brexit and undesirable people voting for it.
>>2679055>Then should you not support strenghtening of EU institutions and economic independence from USA,It was already pointed out to you by several communist anons ITT that all of this exists only in your fucking imagination..
Actual, hard facts are:1) the EU is US army occupied (the reverse siruation does not exist);
2) The EU was never economically independent from the US (see: post-ww2 economic "aid" and reconfiguration);
3) the EU was always a minor party to the US's intelligence services, meaning the EU is literally infiltrated by CIA spies and double agents, meaning the EU officials – even the fucking seemingly "EU-skeptics" like Orbán are CIA-trained OR CIA-adjacent (Soros) trained;
4) Your whole charade is crumbling as we speak. See the "mysterious" bombing of Nordstream, the buying of 3x more expensive USA LNG instead of the dirt cheap Russian oil, etc.
Idiot faggot moron imperial-core labor-aristocrat shill ape-like paid (and worse: unpaid) idiots will call me a fukkken schizo or whatever but all of the above is 100% true. The EU never existed and will never exist without US control.
End if fucking story, bro.
EU, as an institution = US interests.Anti-USA = anti-EU = push for communism.
End of fucking story.
>>2678722So what, encourage european indepedence as a bloc, so that europe can rely less on the US, while it would be a "win" for multipolarity freaks, it would rejuvenate and allow european foreign diplomacy to be less restrained by american monopoly and more assertive on their imperialism.
This does not end well for africans or eastern europeans, because a united european bloc under capitalistic imperialism that would be emboldened BY china and not USA. If the EU already did enough damage to eastern europe and balkans by stealing their populations, causing the worst depopulation crisis, making eastern european shitholes that had proper industries dependent on eurobux and pornography industry, a "indepedent and sovereign EU" without socialist internationalism and anti-imperialism would result into a EU that seeks to colonize russia, and middle east.
Multipolarity without socialism is just the return of victorian era geopolitics
>>2679085>>2679085>The EU […] will never exist without US controlWhy? You keep repeating it, but dont present any supporting arguments. Especially since in recent year you do see very real fissures in their mutual relations.
>>2679085You are too optimistic. The US supports both the existence of the EU and its dissolution. The Dems lean one way, Republicans the other, but on the whole it's a wash. The great part about being a global superpower is that you make the rules.
You're sitting here feeling all clever because you're going to bet it all on black since unlike these
labor aristocrat liberals you know that the Casino owns and controls all the red spaces on the roulette wheel…
>>2679087>Multipolarity without socialism is just the return of victorian era geopoliticsI'm not advocating for multipolarity without socialism, but I do believe that multipolarity is a strong catalyst for socialism, if not a prerequisite. The more divided the international bourgeoisie are, the less capable they are of maintaining their grip either on their empires or their own populations. Whether this means communists should support the EU or not is up for European comrades to decide. I would lean to the conclusion that they should not, at least not once the split between Europe and America has become finalized. The thing about a Euro-American split is that it would completely change the calculus that many multipolarist communists have come to rely on. Their argument has always been to support emerging capitalist powers as a counterweight to global US hegemony. However without Europe and the transatlantic alliance, that world order is effectively dead. Even the Canadian PM said exactly this. This means they now need to adjust their position from a world where US hegemony is dying to one in which it is dead. Under the former condition, support for something like BRICS makes a lot of sense. Under the latter, we need to sit down and do some serious reassessment of how to navigate this new environment. We're in uncharted waters here comrades, which I dont think are even comparable to pre-WW2 conditions given that in those days there were really no non-Western (excepting Japan), non-imperialist great powers. Interesting times indeed.
>>2678457>even if they are pro-Russian that's the fucking good choicelmao
bad news - genuine europeans who don't like eu dislike russia even more for very similar reasons, it is a lost case
>>2679006>Germany alone will produce more artillery ammunition than the US by 2027do you really think the big money in the arms industry is in the artillery shells ?
>If you want to argue that the EU undermines unity and cohesion more than it supports it then that's one thingI do argue this, thats the core of the argument. The only "unity" europe has is when it does the bidding of the US empire, for example when going all in on ukraine, whining about uyghurs, recognizing guaido, or supporting iran bombing. What happens when theres a euro crisis like greece, migrants or covid ? not unity, a shitshow
>debunked in recent years where ?
>there would never be any basis for conflict between capitalist powersdunno if you have noticed, but not everyone is in the US empire or happy with it. The euro porkies are happy though (although a bit lost by whats happening, but they still desperately cling to it. Even fucking canada show more defiance).
>If the international bourgeoisie are so intertwined then why would there be any cause for conflict between the West and Russiabecause the porkies are way more intertwined within the west than with the rest of the world, and the west porkies understand this and want to keep it that way. Additionally, the masses in the west are fully onboard with the US empire thanks to these porkies propaganda, while the masses of periphery and exploited nations tend more to view it as the oppressive exploitation that it is for them, and this put pressure on the politicians (something that might also happens in europe, but I wouldnt hold my breath, and that doesnt change the fact the elites dont care).
Another factor might be that so much of the superporkies and porkies of the west are made from finance and tech capital, while periphery and semi periphery porkies might more often be from raw resources and industry capital
>>2679163you will never be a "genuine european" gzegorz, they keep you around as an attack dog
>>2679163I am GENVINE EVROPEAN and I hate the EU and have sympathies for Russia (mainly since they are antiimperialist and collaborate with Korea and Belarus)
>>2679163>bad news - genuine europeans who don't like eu dislike russia even moreThat is not true at all, anti-EU folk sees EU as a globohomo cabal, and Russia as a bulwark against progressivism. It gets muddier when it comes to anti-EU politicians, but their voters are generally not anti-Russian.
>>2679179>antiimperialist>collaborate with Korea and Belarusyou're either a genuine russian or a genuine retard
russia is an imperialist country, exemplified by the very policy of puppeting belarus
>>2679171>attack dogin the meantime do you want me to spell out for you who the mutts attacking anyone in vicinity of europe are?
>>2679183people dislike eu because it represented by foreigners encroaches on countries' sovereignty
russia is even more foreign and more encroaching
It's an issue with progressive nationalism in the British isles, the parliamentary parties all see the EU as their saviour if they manage to escape the union. Of course socialists must oppose this.
>>2679183>eurocrat liberal explaining to a polish fascist how he isn't pro-eu and russophobic enoughkeeeek, only on leftypol
hang all eurocrats
hang all russophobic polack roaches
hang walesa
>>2679185>>2679189I dont know about Poland specifically, but far right even in other visegrad countries is not Russophobic. There is some level of caution towards it, but in general is seen as a preferable partner to Brussels.
>>2679185>people dislike eu because it represented by foreigners encroaches on countries' sovereigntyrussia is even more foreign and more encroaching
You would rather be controlled by a 300-yr-old settler-colonial "nation" than one which has precedents (meaning, before becoming a nation) in the continent for far more centuries?
What you said what a bit racist anyways (THE ASIATIC HORDES ARE TAKING EUROPA'S SOVEREIGNTY AWAY)
>you're either a genuine russian or a genuine retardWrong. I am from Spain, being Russian is not a bad thing anyways. Quit being a turbolib racist (are you really a socialist or are you just a socdem? Please answer)
>russia is an imperialist country, exemplified by the very policy of puppeting belarusLukashenko purposfully approached Russia, and they are a sovereign nation with the majority of the economy being state-controlled, so in benefit of the belarussian people
>>2679194Amen
>>2679185>russia is an imperialist country, exemplified by the very policy of puppeting belarusis getting free nukes imperialism? is military cooperation imperialism? was the ussr imperialist too then? does russia control the world reserve currency which which would mean that its government must force everyone else in the world to use its currency because if nations around the world start rejecting it and these nations together reach a critical mass, its economy will collapse overnight from being unable to exploit them? what is imperialism, if not what i've just describe?
>>2679201>>2679203the guy you're talking to is a polack who thinks that communism is an asiatic imposement upon the free european peoples of poland and he will confirm this by responding to me
>>2679204The other date I was talking with a guy with the intent to get to know each other for a relationship. He turned out to be polish, I got worried he would see me like the evil incarnated but thankfully he hasn't responded to me
>>2679116all trump did wrt the eu is forcing them to buy more american weapons and he still refuses to end the ukraine war, even when ukrainians are freezing to death in their own homes and their country is literally collapsing due to how bad they are losing this war
there is no meaningful difference between democrats and republicans beyond rethoric, they are doing nothing but playing good cop bad cop
>>2679203>is getting free nukes imperialism?no one's getting free nukes, lukashenko got russian army setting up camp in belarus whether he liked it or not sold it as 'brotherly help' or something to save face but in the end russians will jew belarusians out of their country just like they did in crimea i can already assure you of that
>was the ussr imperialist too then? yes it was
>does russia control the world reserve (…)it doesn't have to, you're pushing goalposts
>>2679204yes it was and yes i will
>>2679201>so in benefit of the belarussian peopledoes it? in summer i a belarussian on pol said that working full time and doing gigs on weekedns he manages to save 10$ a month. that's less than a lunch for me and i don't work anywhere near as hard
not to even mention how much resources they waste on brutalizing their nation
>Quit being a turbolib racist (are you really a socialist or are you just a socdem? Please answer)i don't think those labels are applicable anymore but i guess socdem if anything
>>2679211Rape yourself and slava Stalinu
>>2679211okay i see where you are coming from, the soviets shouldn't have been so kind as to save you rzczszcz apes from being exterminated (alas, they can't help being nice people like cucktin)
and yes it's brotherly help when russia isn't appropriating value from belarussian workers, which would be especially hard given the state-owned economy belarus has
imperialism is when you have to fight 3-4 wars simultaneously to keep dollar dominance-based economy from imploding
>>2679211>>2679213also have fun being american lapdogs forever and ever and ever
>>2679215What's wrong with what the second anon said?
>>2679213>when russia isn't appropriating value from belarussian workers, which would be especially hard given the state-owned economy belarus hastry googling russian stake in belarus' industries sometime
>>2679213>the soviets shouldn't have been so kind as to save you rzczszcz apes from being exterminatedi'm pretty sure soviets attacked us two weeks after germans did all the heavy lifting because they tried invading and sovietizing (which is basically the same as exterminating except disgraceful) us just a 20 years prior on their own and failed miserably
>>2679225Try not taking foreign land first
>>2679229i agree with the notion, trying to restore ruthenia against ruthenians was idiotic
although it needs to be said that you don't have any more rights to those lands than we do - you're just as foreign
>Stalin liberated the common polish ape from nazi occupation and even gave them ukrainian and belarusian territories (Peremyshl and Belostok), as a consolation prize, foolishly believing that the ape can be trusted to act in a human way
>the common polish ape immediately proceeded to ethnically cleanse ukrainians and belarusians from his new lands, then started endlessly kvetching for decades about how he is a victim of le double genocide
is there a more reprehensible "people" in existence?
>>2679232I am not Russian I already told you retard who seems to not be able to remember 8 posts deep in a conversation
>>2679237then it's even more important for you to know how soviet propaganda justified their invasion of ruthenia and what's wrong with their position
so next time 'soviet imperialism' becomes a topic you can go >maybe there's something to it
>>2679233stalin ethnically cleansed too, you ape
>>2679233The balts, and this guy ^x3
>>2679779Why is the Orthodox cross up there? The Orthodox Church, especially the Russian one, has been one of the most consistent and powerful opponents to imperialism
>>2679783Bulgaria and Romania are part of the UE
>>2679783Half of Orthodox churches supported the creation of the fake banderite church. Orthodox Christianity glows just as much as all the rest.
>>2679788>>2679785Those are heretical offshoots or outright Nazi inventions that only use the trappings of Orthodoxy to advance a western agenda
>>2679791So? This flag is about the UE, Romania and Bulgaria are part of the UE, and their churches use that symbol
This is not about Russia
>>2679797It becomes an attack on anti-imperialism by proxy when you use the symbol of the Orthodox Church to represent Synagogues of Satan. If you must represent the false churches at least use the pentagram
>>2679799But anon, all orthodox churches are false,
and the Russian church aligned with the White army
>>2679785The Bulgarian patriarch Daniil literally sided with the Russian orthodox church over the schism you retarded western bastard.
https://www.voanews.com/a/bulgaria-orthodox-church-elects-new-patriarch-with-pro-russian-views/7678825.htmlKILL YOURSELF, NOW. BULGARIA AND RUSSIA TOGETHER FOREVER.
>>2679783is this uygha serious?
>>2679803Is this for me or
>>2679788 ? Because I don't care about orthodox churches, all of them are bad
>>2679810Wrong. Russian Orthodox Church is Russian and therefore can't be bad, read Lenin.
>>2679813Didn't they side with the white army?
>>2679818
White army was supported by the rest of the west, so not completely Russian
>>2679821
Lets hope all of these people get sent to the meatgrinder so they meet their jewish gods.
>>2679833
They crave for attention.
>>2679833
Thank you🙏 for recognizing slavs as BIPOC, that allows us to say n-word.
God bless you brat.
>>2679211>lukashenko got russian army setting up camp in belarus whether he liked it or not lmao do nafo retards really believe that?
>US ask for greenland
>literally everyone in EU but denmark pitch a plan where US get large chunks of the territory
>denmark get mad and say "no way we wont give territory", threaten to remove the CIA spying base in their country, US apparently back off for now
yes tell me more of the famed unity and independence of the EU
It’s illegal to be both an EU member and a communist country due to the EU’s legislation supporting the right to private property making it impossible to implement a communist economy in any EU member state. So no, it’s impossible to be both a communist and an EU supporter.
As others have pointed out, the massive amount of US bases in key states like Germany, Poland and Italy combined with how the EU acts as one of the branches of the same transatlantic rentier capitalist class, combined with how the EU as of late seems to be militarising alongside implementing a surveillance state, makes any Eurocommunist delusional. Then again, eurocommunists were always stupid:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hoxha/works/euroco/env2-1.htm>>2695684By moving to Russia and joining the special military operation.
>>2679783Proponent of the knout, apostle of ignorance, champion of obscurantism and Stygian darkness, panegyrist of Tartar morals – what are you about! Look beneath your feet – you are standing on the brink of an abyss!… That you base such teaching on the Orthodox Church I can understand: it has always served as the prop of the knout and the servant of despotism; but why have you mixed Christ up in it? What have you found in common between Him and any church, least of all the Orthodox Church? He was the first to bring to people the teaching of freedom, equality, and brotherhood and to set the seal of truth to that teaching by martyrdom. And this teaching was men’s salvation only until it became organized in the Church and took the principle of Orthodoxy for its foundation. The Church, on the other hand, was a hierarchy, consequently a champion of inequality, a flatterer of authority, an enemy and persecutor of brotherhood among men – and so it has remained to this day. But the meaning of Christ’s message has been revealed by the philosophical movement of the preceding century. And that is why a man like Voltaire who stamped out the fires of fanaticism and ignorance in Europe by ridicule, is, of course, more the son of Christ, flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone, than all your priests, bishops, metropolitans, and patriarchs – Eastern or Western.
https://www.marxists.org/subject/art/lit_crit/works/belinsky/gogol.htm Yup, another based china flag anon take
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