/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2687082
im gonna try to start getting into coding and then put a more refined version of this predicition into an essay that ill put alongside others on my site. bless you all

Where does the Zionist entity fit into all this?

>>2687090
once it NeoL collapses (perhaps the board of peace will have something to do with it?) and the masses regain agency, its hard to imagine even the most generally ambieveltnt to pro isreali leaning publics supporting endless defence for gains only really to chemical and tech companies and large multinationals will probably leave as the situtation towards Isreal becomes drastically more dangerous even if the state still remains. the zionists are already now one of the driving reasons for the collapse of NeoL as they have completely discreted its claims to democracy, human rights and reason and its only be the sheer will of the zionist state that the US and other govs have not already divested from them. Israel was indispensible during the cold war and against iran and the 2000s wars but it is teethless against russia and will certainly adopt neutrality if China invades taiwan and not assist the US. there is already sections of the bourgeois desiring to totally move away from israel

>>2687098
Imo Israel is the very heart of this epoch. Its collapse will signal the end of the neoliberal order. It will be similar to the collapse of the Soviet union.

>>2687082
>Return of Vitality and Horror
Oh fuck, I'm gonna nut

>>2687090
Not OP but I feel the process OP is describing in the second paragraph has already started because of the Gaza genocide

>>2687082
>death of neoliberalism
My prediction is that it will happen before 2050, by how things are currently going. Remember the 2008 crisis? It was already enough to make Greece and some other southern european states collapse if they didn‘t get bailed out. Now look at the current debt situation. I doubt the EU could afford something like that again. The collapse of the EU would be the first domino to collapse the entire global economy, includimg the death or an extreme weakening of all current great powers. And judging by the fact that capitalism experiences a major crisis on average every 10 years, I doubt it will happen after our lifetimes.

Admitting we live under neoliberalism is a giant step for most socialists

>>2687331
oops, wrong files

>>2687082
>we exist in the neoliberal epoch
Our material base is pretty much socialist already as Marx described it. the 19th and 20th century are long since past. The random small time producers organized by market forces and profit motive have already been eaten by the big multinational corporations who work with their own central plans, sometimes functioning in the scale of whole nations. Markets and profit motive are pretty much secondary importance. We have huge companies entwined with states and are too big to fail and economy full of meme companies and projects that nobody really expects to ever make a single cent of profit, but the lie of the market mattering is still useful. This just isn't capitalism anymore.

In the terms of political economy the issues we face now are more political than in the economy. We have socialism, but it socialism that is just politics is dead and the point of governments is to administrate society and economy so that 1) society doesn't collapse 2) current social order is maintained 3) the global megaporkies can feel safe and contended 4) wagies get the scraps. The machine is already there the revolution will be restarting politics and remaking the administrative state and it's priorities. I disagree that there is some new stage of neoliberalism, it's just more of the same, but worse, until it gets better of course. The liberal facade of it all unfurling rn can only be a good thing.

>>2687082
Fully automated planned capitalism where 90% of population are NEETs (if they are allowed to exist at all).

>>2687356
Aren't we living this already. if you look at China the "dark factory" (with no or minimal amount of workers) being the new norm and you believe David Graeber (or observe it by your own eyes), that most administrative jobs, especially in middle management are just air and pointless. Mostly so everybody has the opportunity to work and justify their existence to society and themselves. If we really wanted it we could rn kick a lot of people into unemployment in the developed countries.

>>2687368
>If we really wanted it we could rn kick a lot of people into unemployment in the developed countries
And thats whats gonna happen. There won’t even be UBI because they know that the prole has been absolutely brainfucked and will not complain, at all. Or maybe… nah, they are that cocky, lol

>>2687411
You have to not just think that the masses are hopeless, but also that the security state is omniscient and all powerful to believe that is what they realistically might want. If so, why haven't you just killed yourself, if there is no hope? In reality The "goodies" are the first and some cases the last line of real defense against if not an organized revolution, then at least against an giga scale societal upheaval.

plus I think they just want the game that is rigged for them to have losers to abuse, so they can feel better about themselves. Epstein files pretty much show it that their lives are so much more meaningful if they can feel powerful by toppling a country and raping some kids to feel like they "have made it".

>>2687350
nice filename

>>2687350
>I disagree that there is some new stage of neoliberalism
i didnt say it was unless you count viewing the present, recent past & future as the twilight years of NeoL being tantamount to saying we're in a different phase. i believe we'll enter a new phase of capitalism and the true return of class politics. either way what you said isnt contrary to anything i believe or stated imo.
>>2687411
>>2687452
>prole has been absolutely brainfucked
>You have to not just think that the masses are hopeless
bro, remember our epoch, its impossible for them to be anything but at the moment. its why i empheize that we will see a great return of spirit when its ends for better and much worse. we will see many nostalgic for the saftey and conformity of the NeoL age
>>2687331
>>2687339
didnt state clearly in OP but imo its entirely possible the meltdown will be the next year or at least within the next 7 or such. no way NeoL limps to the 40s or even late 30s

>>2687082
>with neoliberalism's death, we will see the Far right and left regain strength and energy, a true return to class politics.

Oddly conservative prediction. You'd think there'd be something new and strange. May as well predict the return of monarchy like the tech-fedualist crowd.

>next stage
You're thinking with a stagest mindset and that's fundamentally flawed. History does not progress in stages.

>neoliberalism is unlike any other capitalist epoch
No. Its very much like the liberalism of the 19th century. Hence the 'neo' part. Sure, some things are different, but the bedrock of neoliberalism is a revival of classical liberal ideas from well over a century ago.

>critical meltdown across the globe and with it the end of everything
Neoliberalism is not in its death stage. Neoliberalism is a lot more fluid and flexible system for Marxist theory to adequately understand it. People have made claims about global collapse before, but that hasn't happened. They underestimated how flexible it is.

>will see the Far right and left regain strength and energy, a true return to class politics. we will likely see a years of lead across the whole of eurasia, south americas and africa but not US or PRC. there will be far more riots, counter culture & demagogues arising from the formly 1dimenional workers
With the internet and social media what we in fact see is a standardization of politics at the global level. Once there were competing political ideologies (communism, neoliberalism, Islamism) today they've all been streamlined into one current. Left and right are now just political identities, tribes or franchises that barely disagree in any meaningful way. People don't form politics on the basis of class identity, but cultural identity and idpol. Class struggle is redundant. The left is extremely reactionary and obsessed with restoring pre-neolib social democracy and the right are equally reactionary. Standardization of culture means that there is no real counterculture anymore. People play acting at it but nothing beyond that. I'd say that the explosion of jihadism in the 2000s was the last real counterculture to exist. People riot but they don't have any alternate vision. They riot to protect the system and just like jihadis, the existence of rioters entrenches the system by justifying further security and mass surveillance.

>>2687082
The next phase of capitalism is so called "phase D" as described by engels in anti duhring. I suggest you read that.

sorry for late replies got busy then very sick
>>2687906
thats entirely possible, i just said that they would return but its also true that other real third way shit will also arise
>>2688418
>stagism
yes, history isnt in stages but it is true that across recent and broader history there is such structural changes that there is a difference between what came before and after. neoliberalism is clearly different from the economically liberal wellfair capitalism which came prior, or say the difference between feudalism and early mechantilism and early capitalism.
>repeat of liberalism
regardless of the underlined reasons and justifications for neoliberalism, it is clearly different in its effects and results upon the whole earth. i think its a partially silly comparison honestly
>its stronger than you think
yeah, that why i say when its dies its going to cause shockwaves on the level that ww1 brought. it is indisputably dying.
<the liberal conscenious/international order(LC/LIO) that even wormed its way into parts of far right and left is entirely discredited
<the international instituions that were propped up by it have proven themselves both entirely controlled by the global bourgeois and also useless
<everyone recongises the uglyness and lack of soul of modern society is has brought about
<hating rich people is now so common that it doesnt even worth mentioning
<the global bourgeois cooperation that kept neoliberalism/LIO alive is now floundering as the goals of the various national bourgeois, militaries and politicians are too contradictory to work together for much let alone a global socioeconomic system
<the globalist economy that kept workers in first world nations wealthy and comfortable enough is now collapsing due to increasing wars, rivial of protectionism and AI
i will give you people have argued that NeoL was dying before but imo none of them had as strong as case as me
>the state of modern politics
i agree with everything you said. the biggest examples of the absolute rot of modern historical epoch is both trump and current gen z revolutions. nixon had to resign when it was revealed he hired some guys to break into the democrats HQ, and people were so livid he kept his head down worried people would try and kill him where as trump is a literal pedophillic rapist who literally tried to overturn the holy golden cow of america DemOcRaCY and has been acting as a bootleg dictator but nobody musters up the will to do much of anything. the gen z "revolutions" were as you said, just a bunch of days of rage but ultimately some nobody from the old adminitration or the military takes control, promises more (liberal) democracy and nothing much changes outside some of the worst abuses being curtailled. nothing structurally changed nor was there any attempt at such unlike the riots or revolutions in the past 2 centuries.
however id say this is all due to neoliberalisms effects upon the whole globe and once it dies we'll see a return to true politics
overall good response even if i disagree with most of it.
>>2688419
thanks, but i cant seem to find anything on it, maybe its translated to something else?

>>2693267
Here
>D). Partial recognition of the social character of the productive forces forced upon the capitalists themselves. Taking over of the great institutions for production and communication, first by joint-stock companies, later on by trusts, then by the state. The bourgeoisie demonstrated to be a superfluous class. All of its social functions are now performed by salaried employees.

>>2687584
Yeah, it is in dire need of more than one new Roosevelt to continue existing, like one for the US, Canada, Japan and like two thirds of the EU each

>>2687082
I thought about this recently.
>its (neoliberalism) contradictions […] have caught up
Indeed. It's because at the end of the day, the illusion of infinite growth was.. an illusion. As long as governments hold debt (with interest), we will be trapped in the capitalist hell that keeps expecting to "outgrow" the debt with higher GDP growth. As we can currently see, with falling birth rates and populations aging more and more i.e. a shrinking workforce the only way for the "line to go up" is through technological advances like robotic automization and AI. It's questionable if this will be enough to offset the deficits, and attempts of importing new workers from other countries have already met resistance from local populations so there is a very real chance that our economies will soon catch up to us and slowly collapse. However even if the technological advances were to offset the decline in workforce, it would only benefit the few rich while the workers get none of the profits and make the wealth inequality even higher than it already is. Imo this could go threefold
a) our governments go full autoritarian crackdown like third world countries to maintain "public order" while only servicing the rich
b) (moderate) socialist policies that aim at redistributing the wealth, reducing government debt and accepting that the times of infinite wealth are over. Economic markets could stabilize at their current level, trying to retain what wealth they achieved so far (by whatever means they used) and hoping for better times (i.e. socialist policies potentially increasing birth rates again)
c) (unlikely) if the current course of politics continues as it does, an uprising against the political and financial elite is the only logical next step, especially with the epstein files exposing the absolute depravity of our elites, their complete disregard for human lives etc etc.. however the way I see it, so far most people prefer a slow decline in living standards, a slow widening over the wealth gap and a growing mistrust (only verbally) towards the elites over actually taking action in fear of even worse living standards.

The way I see it, neoliberalism is dying. Europe is trying to connect more countries to the global market (South America, India, Africa) in an attempt to prolong it but it will die sooner or later. Depending on political events, it could however still take quuiiite a long time until it happens, and until then scandals like the Epstein files could also be long forgotten again.

I think a form of neoliberalism will continue but it will be regional instead of global.
I could see scandinavia surviving as a isolated regional ecomony, athough with much worst conditions.

>>2693847
>The once lauded succdem strongholds will become the last bastions of neoliberalism
Sounds about right

>>2693304
thanks a ton anon! it seems this is from Socialism Utopian & Scientific but was originally meant for Anti Duhring (gathering from the wikipage) either absolutely upstanding of you
>>2693464
roosevelt was the obama/romney of the gilded US. He worked with the Judicary to break up the trusts and get enviromental and other progressive legislation passed but it didnt change the character of capitalism as a whole just made it play flairer with workers and each other. one can observe through his agitation for going to war with germany and his imperalism that was still ultimatetly in support of capital over the interests of the american working class let alone the global proleateriat (same with obama and romnney)
>>2693847
imo unlikely, liberal democracy will probably become isolated and still exist in regional forms but neoliberalism such a particular global arangemnet which requires such specific frames of mind <general stability along supplylines, insane mass consumerism, acceptance of multi national corporation
philosophy
<human rights, government soverignty over personal privacy
& state of technology
<pre ai, mass oceanic shipping, functional and stable communication networks like email
that if like two of these substantially changes the whole thing goes klaploowy
>>2693803
im very mmt minded (modern monetary theory) so i deeply disagree with the emphasis on debt and its relevance especially to first world nations.

>>2694808
>mmt minded
Well I'm still not 100% sure myself if I should believe that debt is just a meme or not but it is definitely not sustainable in a world where growth is finite and it appears that a lot of countries have (temporarily or permanently) hit that ceiling

>>2687090
They fall apart or something