This is the only logical way of understanding the Chomsky-Epstein controversy and what it means for us on the left, and I will die on this hill.
The worst thing Chomsky did was go against his anarchist principles by being friends with a billionaire pervert. There is zero evidence he did anything criminal himself. No woman has come forward and said Chomsky did anything to her on Epstein Island. Chomsky gave Epstein advice on how to defend himself from the media because they were friends and Chomsky believed his friend (no matter how awful of a person he was) was innocent. That’s not a valid reason to cancel someone or Chuck out their lifetime of work.
Let’s be honest: a lot of the stuff said about Epstein is dubious at best. There’s no solid evidence he was a Mossad agent luring in high-ranking global elites in order to get blackmail material on them on behalf of Israel. Not only does this narrative completely ignore capitalism and class interest, but it’s not supported by much. For one thing, most of the girls Epstein was having sex with were over 18. Yes, sone were underage, but it’s most likely they lied about their ages the same way underage groupies in the 1970s lied about their ages in order to bang rock stars. I don’t deny Epstein was a disgusting sleazeball, but he wasn’t some three-headed Illuminati alien sacrificing babies to Satan. There’s also no evidence of Epstein ever being a pimp. None of the women he trafficked have said he was pumping them out to others. One woman, Virginia Giuffre, has made multiple claims that haven’t been substantiated yet the media takes as gospel truth. Some of the things said in the files are so outrageous it’s hard to believe them. Look at it with skeptical eyes.
But back to Chomsky: his work is now being thrown out by 99% of the left precisely because the left operates on a very rigid moralism. They will dogpile on anyone for every single little thing. Modern leftist spaces have no leaders and no real structure, so they’re unable to resolve any internal conflict in any other way than mob justice. This is a huge problem that needs to be addressed and solved.
Is there a way to hold Chomsky accountable for being friends with Epstein without demanding comrades burn his books? There should be.
There is no need to waste time reading a YPG flag liberal's take on anything, their entire understanding of politics come from youtube slop essays.
>>2690953That's why Lenin followed Nechayev's line of thought.
>>2690963No he didn't. Stop spreading this falsification. Lenin was a Marxist.
Remember how democratic confederalists collaborated with Zionism and then once it was betrayed by Zionism (to no one's surprise) they pleaded to Zionism for help?
>>2690970Marxism is just economic zionism
>>2690967
>t. evil person calling his guilt and brain gymnastics nuanced grey areas
>>2690995What’s Chomsky guilty of, exactly? Can we prove it? Has any woman come forward saying Chomsky sexually assaulted her?
>>2691039>erm ackshullay he just watched the billionaire traffic women and took his moneyFuck Glowm Chomsky. You are the company you keep. He probably answered my letter as a child bc he was thinking about bussy, pedo-creep. Rest in piss once his demented ass finally shuffles off the mortal coil. Anarkiddies btfo, you don't see any MLs in the files.
This has to be ragebait/trolling. I refuse to believe even the dumbest rovaja-stan is this retarded.
>>2691099So guilt by association is legitimate, in your view?
How light the left deal with internal issues like this? You believe all of Chomsky’s work needs to be subjected to book burnings, for example?
WRT Chomsky's work, i'll care about this when someone can show me which citations it invalidates.
>>2690946>There’s no solid evidence he was a Mossad agent luring in high-ranking global elites in order to get blackmail material on them on behalf of Israel. Most disingenuous thing i ever read, tbh.
>>2690970Marxism is social democracy Marx himself rejected. All Marxists oppose Marx.
>>2691039He's guilty of being a liberal and bastardizing the sacred name of A.
>>2691101Anyone who still supports "Rojava" in 2026 at the present situation has to be mentally retarded.
>>2691109That I can agree with, but is the Epstein stuff worth cancelling him over?
Every single academic is a grifter.
TBH I think it’s fallacious to assume anyone mentioned in the Emails was in on what Epstein was doing.
>>2690946I don’t feel sorry for anyone who feels “betrayed” by Chomsky. There was a time when half the American left was a virtual Chomsky cult and the man was upheld as being the perfect moral example for leftists to follow. Norman Finkelstein still says this about Chomsky and has been hella hush-hush about Chomsky being buddies with Epstein (interesting). If anyone feels “betrayed” by these new revelations, it’s because they weren’t thinking critically about Chomsky in the first place and were allowing their bullshit moralism to cloud their judgement.
>>2691140Almost every single american I've come accross is a socialdemocratic faggot with a false impression that they're something else. This american illness has spread its infection deep into NATO colonies and rebellious feeling youngsters in the third world.
>>2691140>Norman Finkelstein still says this about Chomsky and has been hella hush-hush about Chomsky being buddies with Epstein (interesting). ironically being one of the few if not only person to come out of the emails looking better for saying epstein deserved to be strangled lol
>>2691142And what has Finkelstein said about his own hero’s reputation being destroyed forever by the Epstein shit?
>>2691151He’s already gone through his mourning period, he had the same for Mao when he met Nixon, then later when Deng Xiaoping took over and Norm decided to dedicate his academic career to the Palestinian cause
Chomsky was weaksauce and an okd man. He always looked like an old man. The only way anarchism can remotely work in the modern world is with high tech with an ai overseeing robots and the economy and shit.
>>2691151Hes an academic, doubtless the academia is more important to him than the gutter press trash.
>>2691157>Chomsky was weaksauce and an okd man. He always looked like an old man. The only way anarchism can remotely work in the modern world is with high tech with an ai overseeing robots and the economy and shit.Chomsky didn't write about anarchism…
You people legitimately don't read books, do you? Embarrassing.
>>2691162In the movie he made he said abolish oppressive hierarchies. Sounds like anarchism to me.
>>2691162You mean the whole book he wrote on the Spanish Civil War wasn’t just shilling for CNT FAI?
>>2691165Anyone can say that, even Milei. Anarchism on its premise is without rulers - to not rule and not be ruled, not "without the oppressive rulers". That kind of distinction is a clear indication of apologetics contrary to anarchism.
>>2691166Orwell wrote a book on the spanish civil war as well. Many bourgeois authors have written lots of books on the spanish civil war. Not a lot of have written condemndations of the CNT FAI being traitors by participating in the popular front as to condemn syndicalist failiure entirely, but those who did are anarchist-communists.
There is no way to smear anarchism when people don't understand its hindu-esque character and the fact that it is majority astroturfed by liberalism.
Classical anarchism doesn't even start with Proudhon and Bakunin, it starts with a greek epic.
No academic figure can be anarchist, academia is pro-status quo, academia legitimizes the bourgeois states' institutionalization of thought.
Anarchists barely exist anymore, most of the "anarchists" you see on the internet are grifters, reactionaries and of course they are simply using the aesthetic like a military chic to promote their own brands of liberalism.
There exist only few authentic AC and they are with AMI.
>>2691162He also had nothing to say sbout china and shilled biden. Weak as a noodle.
Witch hunting on the left has been the biggest plague in the past 15 or so years.
Back in 2013-14 the left was accusing everyone in their circles of being TERFs/transphobes to the point where if you criticized Judith Butler you were labeled a “TERF” and shamed, shunned, ostracized, and had every little thing you did in your past dug up in order to give legitimacy to why you deserved to be ostracized. Then in 2016ish everyone on the left was accusing each other of being NazBols. Same thing. Now with the Gaza genocide everyone in the left has been desperately trying to weed out “liberal Zionists” from among their ranks. Doing something as mundane as drinking a Starbucks coffee or posting a Lady Gaga song on your IG stories gets you denounced as a “Zionist normalizer” and shunned.
Any good leftist who functions on the principle of being anti-carceral will give the accused the presumption of innocence. Witch hunting is an example of acting like a cop even if it’s done with the intent of dealing with exclusionary behaviours. It’s exactly like how #metoo was so toxic: it just assumed the guilt of those accused on hearsay alone. It’s also why fedjacketing is a thing.
>>2691178Which leads me to the next point - there is no real movement right now, there is no movement.
Communism is the real movement against the present state of things? There is no real movement right now, there is no movement.
There is no communist movement right now.
China, the AES, the rest. Nobody is moving, nobody is exporting revolution, they are all only concerned with themselves. Xi moves it from one leg sleeve to the other when it comes to foreign affairs.
If you want to reap the benefits of the present situation, by choosing a lesser evil, you have to be a Sinophile, there is nothing greater in this world right now than China.
China is the most successful socialdemocratic country in the history of mankind.
>>2691187Americans delude themselves that "China's tech industry is 3 years behind the US".
China is at least 30 years ahead of the US. China is the strongest and most developed nation in the world.
China is the sole superpower of this world. The US has more nukes but the effect is the same, nukes are simply deterrents, were all nukes to be launched, the effect would be the same.
The West and America has more influence on the global information space through the internet, but China has complete influence over its own ethernet which has more people than the majority of the world. China has more people than the US and Europe combined, picrel, delusional liberal propaganda fed into western AI LLM can't handle basic facts without resorting to western propaganda.
>>2691187Yeah the us could be like china. People could work 996 and have a keneysian dictator confiscating savings and having a tight leash over the economy.
What that might lead to however is a race to which country can squeeze their workers more.
The alternative is trying something new in my opinion.
>>2691186ACAB means we don’t act like cops to each other.
>>2691157Anarchism can’t deal with the modern state or capitalism in its current form. You need to seize political power to abolish both.
>>2691224Its nuanced s head if state ought to protect the state but other than that with advancements in ai and automation they shouldnt do much more than that and sllow polling for how the resources ought to be allocated then the ai gets to work snd figures it out.
From now on every socialist theorist should be a pseudonymous vtuber so the focus becomes the theory and not the author.
>>2691224If one of your end goals is to abolish it, then isn't that anarchist?
>>2691106>>There’s no solid evidence he was a Mossad agent luring in high-ranking global elites in order to get blackmail material on them on behalf of Israel. >Most disingenuous thing i ever read, tbh.What evidence is there that Epstein was Mossad? Occam's Razor says he was an egotistical asshole porky who got an ego rush hanging out with other elites.
>>2691404His Mossad logo shirt, hanging out with Israeli top guys, loads of zionist drivel about goycattle in his emails.
I mean what else are we going to get unless Mossad themselves admit to it? An email that says "I am Mossad here is proof and documents this is not a joke"?
>>2691307Apollon Karelin thought so, so he sided with the bolsheviks thinking they will bring about anarchism.
>>2691408>His Mossad logo shirt,A $15 IDF shirt that you can buy at any Jerusalem market. Like 2/3rds of your university's Hillel own a shirt like that.
>hanging out with Israeli top guys,He was friends with Ehud Barak. Is everyone who knows Ehud Barak a Mossad agent?
>loads of zionist drivel about goycattle in his emails.So what? That's like saying "oh, you must be a Russian agent because there's a ton of pro-Russia stuff in your Reddit history".
All of this "evidence" is flaky at best. Mossad doesn't recruit foreigners because it's too much of a risk.
How were Chomsky's politics any different from Parenti's? Seems like the only major difference is that Parenti was pro-Soviet and was more of a genocide denier when it came to Bosnia.
>>2691408Both Chomsky and Barak supported the two-state solution, which was pragmatic at the time.
>>2691440Barak obviously wasn’t serious about it, he pulled settlers out of Gaza but not Jerusalem or the West Bank
>>2691441Still. Most Israelis consider Barak a whiny liberal.
>>2691460The one thing worse than genocide.
>>2690946If you were friends with Epstein and went to his island, there's a 99% chance you fucked a 14-year old girl Epstein provided you.
>>2690967
>t. Would go to Jeffrey's island
>>2690946>the Chomsky-Epstein controversy and what it means for us on the leftI'm not "on the left," you stupid cunt. I'm a communist.
<Rojava flagOh, haha, makes sense now.
>>2690953Every anarchist is a fascist in denial.
End of story.
>>2691525What's fascist about anything OP is arguing?
>>2691529>Rojava flag<Wutz fash bout itDuuuh
His relationship with Epstein is easily understood when reading the emails between him and his children, which are heartbreaking.
His children apparently were denying him his own money for selfish reasons. His wife Valeria was forwarding the emails to Epstein, who saw the chance to intervene into Chomsky’s life as a financial wizard. Chomsky was thankful for his help, and so considered him a friend.
>>2691548Wasn't it the case Chomsky's kids hated Valeria, which is what caused them to steal their father's money in the first place?
>>2691549>>2691548Don't care.
Kill all leftoids.
Kill all anarchists.
Only communism go
>apt-get install communism >>2691550Anarchy is the goal of communism.
>>2691186based and chibberpilled take
>>2691552Never was, never will be. Fucking reddit meme poster idiot.
>>2691549I thought so too, not sure now. When Chomsky proposes his son Harry half the marital trust, he promptly accepts. If he really wanted to protect Chomsky, he would’ve rejected the offer.
>>2691561Interesting how Chomsky the "anarchist" has trust funds for his kids.
>>2691570Marx himself gambled on the British stock market. Reminder that during his time Britain was the reigning imperialist capitalist hegemon and Marx had no problem making blood money off the London stock exchange. Investing is proletarian.
>>2691548>Pls mister billionaire pedofile sex trafficker, pls help my 90 y/o husband remove his ingrate kids from their inheritance, so everything can go to me. You are our best friend :'(And retarded libcoms actually find this reasonable lmao
>>2691589Chomsky’s relationship to Epstein was very limited. His wife Valeria is the one who made Chomsky get closer to Epstein, even planning meetings with Woody Allen. Chomsky was just being swindled. His children seem had no integrity either
>>2691404>What evidence is there that Epstein was Mossad?Just because there isn't a smoking gun we cannot ignore everything… From the Maxwell connection to the security cooperation agreement to his relationships, it's all a bit too suspicious, no? This is also considered a likely thing by a large proportion of serious journalists since before you even heard the name Epstein.
>>2691623 (me)
>>2691425>He was friends with Ehud Barak. Is everyone who knows Ehud Barak a Mossad agent?Yes, very good. Now go on to explain away what he was doing with Barak and the circustances of their meetings.
>>2691625by their standards practically nobody works for intelligence except figures like directors or analysts directly employed by the agency. we are never going to find Epstein's clocking in card in Tel Aviv's HQ. same with Maxwell. there's no 'proof' he was working for them. but if it was so easy to proof it like that it just makes the whole point of having covert operatives pointless if you know who they all are
>>2690946Didn't Chomsky literally befriend Big Stein only 2 years after he was Initially arrested as a pedophile?
>>2691626>exactly four years teaching salaryKinda feel bad for him now.
>>2691623What agreements?
>>2690946I will leave links with evidence regarding Neom Chomsky's attempt to co-opt the masses into a left wing compatible with imperialist capitalism and US hegemony.
The first is a link to a PDF text titled "The Mainstream and the Margins: Noam Chomsky vs. Michael Parenti":
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/06/03/the-mainstream-and-the-margins-noam-chomsky-vs-michael-parenti/?print=pdfThe second text is from Lorezoae on the "Popaganda" website, titled "Noam Chomsky and the Compatible Left, Part I":
https://web.archive.org/web/20191115222100/https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2019/03/04/noam-chomsky-and-the-compatible-left-part-i/The third text is "Noam Chomsky and the Compatible Left, Part II" :
https://web.archive.org/web/20191115230624/https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2019/03/05/noam-chomsky-and-the-compatible-left-part-ii/The fourth text being "Noam Chomsky and the Compatible Left, Part III":
https://web.archive.org/web/20191019193428/https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2019/03/06/noam-chomsky-and-the-compatible-left-part-iii/The fifth text being "Noam Chomsky and the Compatible Left, Part IV":
https://web.archive.org/web/20191115222026/https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2019/03/07/noam-chomsky-and-the-compatible-left-part-iv/I suggest you all better archive these texts against opportunists and to inform the misinformed about the left that is compatible with imperialist capitalism, which claims to be against authoritarianism and needs to be fought without exception.
Remember this for you all regarding Chomsky's anti-communism and advocacy of capitalist imperialism before the issue of Zionism and capitalist imperialism in the current situation of the Zionists against Gaza and the Palestinian population. Opposing the financing of imperialist capitalism is correct if some different opportunist appears here trying to co-opt someone here for another "compatible left".
>>2692111Can tankies critique Chomsky ONE TIME without bringing up Parenti?
>>2692111>>2692214Better question: how were Parenti’s politics all that different from Chomsky’s aside from Parenti stanning the USSR?
>>2692027
think he means vivek chibber, marxist scholar who is highly critical of neoliberal indentitarianism
>>2692111>Noam Chomsky vs. Michael Parenti"Liberal vs liberal
Who gives a shit about Epstein?
>>2691766>No more argumentfuck off retard
>>2692215Throughout his life, Chomsky was responsible for spreading propaganda to capitulate people on the left, questioning capitalism in order to moderate them by removing the necessary independence of workers from the bourgeoisie. He used the false discourse of "anti-authoritarianism," normalizing right-wing and anti-communist propaganda to create a controlled left that does not follow the anti-imperialist principle, does not defend the economic sovereignty of foreign countries, and normalizes the narrative of imperialist capitalism that demonizes countries on the periphery of the world to create regime change and dependence on finance capital. Chomsky also creates the false discourse that the empire is inept, fosters attachment to bourgeois democracy, and normalizes the false discourse of the bourgeoisie regarding American hegemony so that the proletariat is not independent in its discourse, which should question all discourse demonizing enemies of the United States and the European Union. Even if you look at Trotskyist websites criticizing Chomsky, you can see that Chomsky's worldview is antihistorical and ignorant in its attempt to understand various intellectuals who contradict Chomsky's false narrative of downplaying the effects of the threat of imperialist capitalism while being hostile to those who resist the current order.
Michael Parenti earns my respect for fulfilling his duty within the imperialist core by questioning all discourses that demonize foreign countries in order to defend "democracy," following the anti-imperialist principle of opposing the foreign financing of imperialist capitalism and being hostile to countries within the imperialist core, defending the economic sovereignty of foreign countries, and not being afraid to defend past socialists while demonstrating that current capitalist imperialism is not something incompetent or innocent that the compatible left wishes to create with lies using the discourse of "anti-authoritarianism." He did the opposite and earns my respect because I recognize the need for force against counter-revolutionaries and agents of financial capitalism who desire freedom and must be crushed to defend economic sovereignty. In the country where I live, I see this truth and I will defend anti-imperialists who should serve as an example for people in the first world who lack the confidence to follow the anti-imperialist principle for fear of being demonized and accused of being insane, lunatic, and "totalitarian."
>>2692274An anti-imperialist left is necessary for the proletariat to gain independence from the bourgeoisie and to have solidarity with the workers of the world; therefore, all attempts to create lefts compatible with imperialist capitalism must be prevented.
>>2691630just say you have no proof but you insist on it because it makes sense in your head.
Most of you guys have no idea how elite society works fundamentally, it works by name recognition and internal cred so elites are incentivized to go out there and just social climb with other random elites as much as possible. 70% of Epstein-related speculations come from proles who do not understand this thing about elite socialization
>>2690946Chomsky is a Zionist.
Doug Lain is a Zionist.
Ben Studebaker is a Zionist.
All Zios must hang.
>>2690946Hooooly this is a spectacular level of cope. Anarchists are so fucking funny man, keep being the lolcow ideology that you are. COMMON ANARKIDDIE MENTAL RETARDATION L.
>>2690946>For one thing, most of the girls Epstein was having sex with were over 18.The absolute state of anarKKKids.
>>2693677
Actually it is quite literally illegal in the US to patronize an establishment that is engaged in sex trafficking, even if you yourself don't end up raping anyone. It's literally in the law.
>>2693677
I agree to a certain extent that the mere association with Epstein isn't enough to convicy Chomsky but describing epstein as "a billionaire who happened to be a sex trafficker" is underselling things a bit I think.
>>2693677
He's always been a useless liberal academic, for those who have false consciousness and believe themselves to have discovered "hot water".
This just goes to show for how long liberal socialdemocrats have been trying to astroturf A. Morons look at them and believe they're criticizing what they claim to represent.
>>2693737Law in the US doesn’t exist for anyone making over $150,000 a year
>>2693737Chomsky isn’t being accused of sex trafficking, sexual abuse, or anything if the sort. He’s accused of being friends with someone who engaged in those things.
>>2693739Critiquing Chomsky’s liberalism isn’t enough to warrant throwing out his works and thought all together.
>>2693783Everybody saying that never intended to read his works in the first place
Interesting how much the hatred of Chomsky ITT seems to have less to do with what he actually did and more to do with “PARENTI BETTER”. Pottery
>>2693737Show us how Chomsky did something illegal.
Chomosky
Chomsky being taken down is the anarchists' version of the USSR's collapse. Anarchism in America will never recover after this. And good riddance.
Anarchism is currently nothing more than:
>sex work
>narcan
>"doctors and nurses are COPS abolish hospitals!"
>"teachers are COPs abolish school!"
>romanticizing disabled retards
>chronically online imbeciles who have zero praxis outside of making a bunch of angry TikToks
Anarchism is dead and will finally be buried for good after this.(Rule 14f - low-quality sectarian bait)
There's quite literally nothing chomsky ever wrote that is of any value
>>2694294You don’t gain a cult-like following if nothing you wrote was of any value.
>>2694124Hitler’s suicide was already the anarchist equivalent of the fall of the USSR, they’ll keep coming back as long as imperialism exists
(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST) >>2694124Literally the only good things to come from anarchism are parties and drugs.
>>2694408Yeah, sorry, you're right.
*of value to the proletariat
>>2694415Hedonism and vice are counterrevolutionary so no
All his fake fucking retarded ling work was at fucking MIT on contract for the military and was supposed to result in voice activated icbm launchers but never went anywhere because he DOESN'T KNOW the first thing about ANYTHING. HE is your anti-imperialist idol? fucking fanboy
>>2694448>fuck linguistics so bad it never recovers and gets eaten by deep learning>be friends with billionaire pedophilesThe only good thing Chomsky will have done in his whole life when he finally croaks it is die.
>>2694294This. Idk about his work in linguistics, but all his works of political science and theory were either done better by others (e.g. Parenti doing Inventing Reality years before Chomsky did Manufacturing Consent) or were just straight up bad (e.g. his takes on AES). Saying that we shouldn't be put off of Chomsky's work because of his personal associations is like saying we shouldn't be put off of a dog's turds just because it bites people. Sorry but I'd rather not have anything to do with either the biting dog or its turds.
>>2694454His work on linguistics is basically crypto-eugenic essentialist slop cooked up at MIT with MIC funding because they were trying to find a linguistic theory that would let them implement "natural language programming", ie give fat US generals the ability to give a plain language command like "Computer, launch missiles on the muslim orphanage" and have the missle system understand and execute.
The claim is that humans have a "language circuit" in their brain, which basically determines linguistic ability on a biological level. If we model this circuitry, we can have a map for translating human spoken child bombing instructions into computer code.
His theory hit a dead end when, like all such analytic brainrot, it was eventually discovered that he just recreated formal computational axioms that are equivalent to the turing machine and formal mathematics etc.
They're still trying to let generals bomb children without having to deal with IT support, but the field has now entirely shifted towards LLM research.
See:
https://www.historicly.net/p/chomsky-linguistics >>2694816How is Chomsky’s linguistic work pro-eugenics exactly?
Are we seriously claiming “eugenics” means anything we don’t like?
>>2694911It posits that language is a feature of biology rather than of social activity
Read lysenko
>>2694922Are Lysenko’s linguistic theories supported by evidence?
>>2694926Yes. The evidence is that every western academic of note is in the epstein files.
>>2694922is there a named work you can point out where he does this ? or like a quote or something just so I know
>>269493
Leading medieval era historian Grover Furr is not.
>Douglas Lain
Im not watching that shit
>>2694932If a pedophile told you that you would die if you drank bleach would you chug it in front of him?
>>2694981I'd at least consider it
>>2694932Kek, I guess that settles it.
>>2694979What’s wrong with Doug Lain?
Question: how is it ideologically consistent to be a police and prison abolitionist and, at the same time, call for everyone named in the Epstein files to be imprisoned and/or hung?
>>2695387Communists are not prison abolitionists. That's a radlib thing.
Usa will need even more prisons acter thd revolution to host all of the international bourgeoisie and their pet fascists
>>2695391>Usa will need even more prisons acter thd revolution to host all of the international bourgeoisie and their pet fascistsWhy?
>>2695403You can't have counterrevolutionaries running around doing counterrevolution.
And putting them to work in gulags is more productive than just shooting them. Proles fed them up to this point, might as well get the investment back
>>2695404Can't you just use restorative justice methods instead of gulags?
Communism isnt about justice
>>2695422the concept of restorative justice is that you make whole what was damaged. This isn't that case because there isn't anything to be restored, we're interested in making new society, not fixing something they damaged.
to high level members of capitalism who are useful and willing, they can stay, and do what's useful, but other than that they're just a threat to keep around. and one which we have zero responsibility to the care of.
>>2695425Then what is it about?
>>2695422How many times did ghe french let marie anotianette only for her to call her cousins in europe asking for armies tonbe sent to crush the revolution?
How do you "restore" someone fully rational and of sound mind acting in their own self interest, that being getting rid of you?
>>2695455You strip them of their power and make them work for others for the betterment of the community to give back what they took. There are anarchist writings on this. The death penalty and prisons aren't the answer.
>>2695474how do you strip them of their power?
how do you make them work for the community?
>>2695425The abolition of class society can be interpreted by many people as a demand for justice. Your insistence on it being otherwise is to the detriment of your own cause. No one is going to go out to rallies for the abstract notion of "ending commodity production".
>>2695474This is going to surprise you but in one of the only large-scale anarkiddie experiments ever devised (Revolutionary Catalonia) the anarkiddies did indeed resort to death penalties/death squads and labor camps.
>>2692546>it works by name recognition and internal cred so elites are incentivized to go out there and just social climb with other random elites as much as possible. 70% of Epstein-related speculations come from proles who do not understand this thing about elite socializationCan you make the jump in reasoning to understand why this behavior makes one a perfect intelligence asset?
>>2695391>Communists are not prison abolitionists. That's a radlib thing.Next you're gonna tell us Communists don't want to abolish the State
>Usa will need even more prisons acter thd revolutionAlphabetization camps will be of far greater importance it seems.
>>2695387Because anarchists are idealist idiots.
>>2696230Are you sure you're not an anarchist?
>>2696230Communists do not want to abolish the state. It will rather whither away.
>>2690995>le good and evil>guiltIdealism
The accusation of anarchism reveals your own conceptual poverty. You see "abolition" and imagine absence, see "no police" and imagine no coordination of reprisal. Your linearity is projected onto what you cannot parse. The framework does not abolish punishment systems…it transforms their form, their social relations, their material basis. You cannot imagine form without content, so you look to engage in a campist argument.
In the real world of history, the state has abolished punishment repeatedly; torture to imprisonment, public execution to carceral discipline, corporal correction to psychological normalization. Each transformation preserved domination through new modalities of interaction based on materially developments within their respective societies. The bourgeois social model cannot exist without reproducing bourgeois results—this is not moral critique but structural mechanics. Centralized state apparatus, professionalized violence, carceral logic: these emerge necessarily from the concentration of economic and political power that defines capitalist social relations. Police and prisons in their current form are not unfortunate additions but constitutive features, required to manage the contradictions that bourgeois society continuously produces. The Marxist framework recognizes that abolition without transformation of social form becomes mere reconstitution; the same bourgeoisie models applied to a post revolutionary society are bound to reproduce the crudest forms of bourgeoisie social relations. The critic who sees this as anarchism mistakes the target. We do not seek to remove institutions and hope for unattainable harmony; we seek to build institutions that produce different results because they embody different relations; this is abolition. The bourgeois model produces police and prisons necessarily; our model seeks to produce necessarily something else, knowing that failure is possible but that the attempt is compelled by the alternative's guaranteed catastrophic failure. The proper revolutionary learns this from history; abolition without structural transformation becomes reconstitution. We do not repeat anarchism's error of assuming institutional absence produces harmony.
Abolition in revolutionary sense comes with transformation. To be a revolutionaries is to be innovators. For people not realizing this, its because the prison's abolition requires organizational imagination they do not possess. The linear thought measures novelty by conceptual distance; our materialist method measures it by practical capacity. If you imagine prison and police abolition as a removal of all future forms of defense and reprisal for harm, that is your own imaginative failure.
>>2696769 IS in response TO
>>2696457.
As for the OP topic;
The association between Noam Chomsky and Jeffrey Epstein while superficially jarring given Chomsky's longstanding critique of power structures becomes intelligible when viewed through the lens of class reproduction and ideological filtering inherent to bourgeois educational institutions.
Chomsky has repeatedly described the education system himself; from primary schooling through elite university credentialing as a sophisticated apparatus of social selection and control. It functions not primarily to cultivate intellectual merit or emancipatory consciousness, but to reproduce hierarchical obedience. As he articulates in discussions drawn from Understanding Power and related interviews the institutional structure rewards docility, punctuality, and conformity while systematically "weeding out" those exhibiting excessive independence, critical questioning, or resistance to authority. The non-compliant are labeled as "behavior problems," "unmotivated," or disruptive, and marginalized in society early on, ensuring that ascent to positions of prestige tenured professorships, Ivy League chairs, influential networks..selects disproportionately for those who have internalized the necessity of compliance. It's well beyond race and class alone, the logic of bourgeoisie control is veiled in every aspect of institutional society.
This filtering mechanism, rooted in the historical transformation of education into a tool for producing disciplined wage-laborers and managerial bodies (a process Chomsky traces back to the suppression of independent agrarian mentalities in favor of factory like regimentation), generates an elite stratum habituated to navigating power without fundamental challenge. Entry into the upper echelons of academia demands not merely technical skill, but a proven capacity for accommodation within dominant ideological parameters. This is precisely the disposition that enables sustained access to exclusive social and financial circuits.
Epstein's milieu, with its veneer of intellectual patronage and cross-class networking among the ruling bloc's academic auxiliaries is something tha represents one such circuit. The capacity to maintain "regular contact" and engage in prolonged exchanges (as documented in released correspondence) presupposes the very compliance and circumspection that the educational filter cultivates over decades. Far from contradicting Chomsky's anarchist-communist analysis of manufactured consent and structural domination this entanglement illustrates its material operation. in most cases the system does not elevate actual revolutionaries to the summits of institutional, intellectual or educational power; it elevates those sufficiently attuned to class hierarchy's veiled demands, even as they articulate critiques from within its sheltered precincts of education.
In Marxist terms, the Ivy League functions as an ideological state apparatus par excellence, reproducing the organic intellectuals of the ruling class while marginalizing counter-hegemonic voices, yet permitting a narrow space for domesticated dissent that never threatens the underlying relations of production. Chomsky's proximity to such networks underscores not hypocrisy perse, but the structural compulsion toward accommodation that the capitalist educational order imposes on even its most lucid critics. There is nothing that was shocking here to me.
Chimpsky and Epstein are both yanks.
All yanks are like that.
American anarchism is dead after this.
My biggest issue with the Epstein shit is that nothing is coming out of it.
Epstein was Mossad? Okay, assuming this is true, what does this change? We were doing direct action for Palestine for over two years and jack shit ended the genocide.
Epstein had politicians in total control? Okay, so what changes from here on out? We already know capitalism needs to be overthrown. In order to fight the rich and powerful we're going to be doing the exact same things we've been doing for decades.
Oh no, we've found out the rich are evil beyond comprehension? Ummm, yeah? Again, how do we remove the rich from power? How does the Epstein shit affect our praxis at all?
Do you think when chomsky was at the island he asked for a monkey instead of an underage girl
Coz, you know, monkeys can't talk
>>2696778you've just forgot about Iron Felix, dear Mauritian nationalist
>>2697271
has anyone asked koko?
>>2696797>My biggest issue with the Epstein shit is that nothing is coming out of it.Wrong, it good propaganda material for class consciousness, and to delegitimize the current world order.
>>2697896And yet we don’t see a mass socialist movement forming around it.
>>2698429The problem is, the Epstein shit is only a critique of CAPITALISTS, not a critique of capitalism. Run-of-the-mill liberals will say they want to remove the ultra-rich from power, or at least greatly reduce their power. There's zero reason to believe the Epstein shit will make people anti-capitalist.
Some woman needs to #metoo Chomsky so he'll finally be accused of something real.
>>2698429Moral outrage against ruling class excess and debauchery alone is not promising ground for building a socialist movement. It's akin to public outrage over any other sort of "corruption": the outed perpetrators are treated as aberrations which must be purged and punished in order to restore justice and cleanse the social order.
This myopic narrative in itself serves only to defend the foundations of the bourgeois democratic order as an authentic human community frustrated by the entryism of bad actors. Like so is obscured the fact that sexual violence and coercion are intrinsic, foundational and functional aspects of all patriarchal societies, and that the epistemic logic of Capital is distilled from the structural dynamics of Patriarchy.
Communists can only highlight this and afirm that the only way to put an end to the systematic abuse at every level is to take practical steps towards abolishing both the nuclear family and private property through violent rupture with the capitalist mode of production and the gendered division of tasks in all facets of life.
>>2690946I'm not gonna chuck out his work.
>There’s no solid evidence he was a Mossad agent … behalf of IsraelSeriously? The entirety of the files and all of his recordings with Ehud Barak and you think he didn't work for Israel?
>>2699195>not promising ground for building a socialist movement.I'm not talking about something that will be a structure for movement building, I'm talking about agitprop / propaganda by the deed / recruitment grounds. Of course you have to use your imagination, and stop thinking I mean the left should simply hold their version of "no kings".
This concern is not with moral outrage as foundation but with missed organizational opportunity. The Epstein revelations of ruling class impunity, institutional protection of systematic abuse, the visible operation of power outside legal constraint have generated mass attention, emotional intensity, and critical consciousness of elite criminality that the left can very well fail to channel. This is not failure to build socialism on moralism; it is failure to connect visible ruling class dysfunction to socialist analysis and current organizational capacity.
Distinction between moral outrage and socialist movement is valid but incomplete and a misdirection of what I mean. Public moral outrage is not foundation but gateway to truth, a moment of visibility where ruling class ideology loses hold, where "meritocracy" and "rule of law" appear as fictions, where masses are temporarily open to alternative explanation and acts. The left's task is not to build on outrage as such but to capture these moments of social rupture, to connect specific scandal and concern to structural analysis, and to channel attention into organizational relationship / capacity.
The Epstein case specifically offered opportunities; demonstration of how capitalist wealth purchases impunity across decades, how legal and political institutions protect rather than constrain elite criminality, and how media concentration enables suppression of anything that may target the elite. These are not moral lessons but materialist ones waiting to be learned. Visible confirmation of theoretical claims about state and capital that typically remain abstract. The failure to capture this energy will not be organizational prioritization of morality but a representation of organizational absence when visible widespread rupture of the bourgeoisie hegemony on legitimacy created possibility.
"The masses are never fully conscious of the tasks of the revolution, nor can they be, until the revolution has begun and has developed into a definite struggle. But it is the task of the party of the revolutionary class to prepare for the revolution, to indicate its inevitability, to explain to the masses their tasks in the revolution, and to draw them into revolutionary struggle." - Lenin
>>2699032Gotta go to work on Monday.
>>2690946Chomsky shat on the Soviet Union.
Ultimately, that's the real litmus test on whether someone is a real leftist or a LARPer/liberal/pseudoleftist/revisionist.
I seriously don't understand why you guys are surprised by this development. I value his contributions on linguistics, but is obvious he has been ideologically compromised for decades.
Anarchists stopped supporting Chomsky when he came out against Antifa around 2017 or so.
The flagship "victims" such as Lisa Phillips, Maria Farmer, Virginia Giufrre, Sarah Ransome are #metoo frauds.
Epstein was not a pedophile. There are no credible reports of "victims" younger than 14.
Nor was he based. He had a small penis, low T, and he died without children.
Stop falling for feminist propaganda.
>>2700359>Epstein was not a pedophileBait
>Stop falling for feminist propaganda.So are you saying the Trump administration is feminist?
>>2690946He was already a liberal who supported the continuation of American hegemony through his voooting and anti soviet stance so why does it suprise you he was friends with pedophile billionaires
>>2699855most people in the former warsaw pact also shit on the soviet union lol. chomsky was a libtard but not for this reason
>>2700424>most people in the former warsaw pact also shit on the soviet union lolbut not most of those that lived under it, and those country have become hopeless pit of pro imperialism reactionnaries
>>2700433older people are more split on the issue, but the majority still don't want it back. we have to somehow overcome the 20th century instead of repeating it
>>2700439Not happening, the only revolutions that happen are CIA backed color revolutions, the proletariat is over
>>2700441there are more proletarians than ever before in history but i agree we probably won't live to see socialism
>>2700442There’s not a single proletarian alive, we have two billion labor aristocrats
Face it: people are only chimping out at the Epstein shit because the victims were overwhelmingly white women. If this has been Black or Native women no one would care
>>2700359I don't know how retards like you found this website but fuck off back to wherever you came from
>>2701046Vast majority of victims are from either the ex USSR or ex Yugoslavia, he wasn’t primarily targeting WASP kids
>>2701046the unnecessary palestine flag attached to this post adds a bit of extra spice to the bait but it also gives the bait away, you can tell it's meant to be bit
Am I the only one who’s sick and tired of the Epstein shit turning into the left embracing the Great Man of History nonsense?
>>2702299
Because Epstein was a global conspiracy.
Chomsky is petite bourgeois which is why all the anarchists he lead follow the legacy of petite bourgeois.
So how will Chomsky be remembered after he finally dies?
I'm guessing he'll be buried in an unmarked grave somewhere in Brazil where he's currently in a coma.
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