/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

I am a retard and forgot the github link
https://github.com/social-production

>Production
anything except consumption is a LARP

>>2712310
you're right, watching drones attack residential apartments is the most effective way to bring about communism, what was I thinking

>what if social media but with some liberal buzzwords about democracy and decentralization
wow im back in 2014

>>2712339
wait you losers actually believe youre actually engaging in communism (aka proletarian association and struggle) with this shit? holy fuck bruh

>>2712352
What buzzwords? this has nothing to do with "association". It is about creating a platform where users can directly coordinate real life productive activity.

communism isnt proletatian organizing and struggle lol. that is just for workers within capitalism. read a book dumbass. communism is an economic system beyond commodity production, the socialization of the means of production and end of division of society into seperate classes.

literally how did you get the idea that communism is workers organizing? so a union is an economic mode of production? holy fuck bruh

>dood we are doing communism our system will coordinate heccin production!!!!!
>engaging with proletarians?? nah dood that has nothing to do with communism
uyghas will do anything but go outside LMAO

>>2712364
>read a book dumbass
says the fucking retard who doesnt know communism is the movement itself and what midwits call a "system" is just this movement expanding to cover all nations and ultimately abolishing class division itself

>literally how did you get the idea that communism is workers organizing?
< Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
lol youre so fucking braindead you dont even realize it yourself

anyway this is the kind of inevitable retardation when you approach communism from an academic point of view (cockshitt et al) bc of ur own class position lol

What kind of gibs do you have for me if I register an account, OP? Is there free weed?

>>2712384
communism isnt about circlejerking the exploited class under capitalism. but they are of course the ones with the most interest and desire to replace the capitalist economic mode of production.

>says the fucking retard
so what is communism to you if not for a system? it is literally just people talking about how shit their position is?
what is capitalism to you? its obviously not a system, i guess its when rich people work together, is that your definition?

>call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
this literally just backs me up you moron. capitalism didnt establish itself by organizing of the capitalist class, it developed from the expansion of trade, and most especially in england where it rapidly transformed its productive powers due to competition. communism similarily will expand its productive organization, the idea that sitting around and crying about how bad your wages are, will somehow create new social relations of production is retarded

>>2712404
yes mass production of weed will be the first to be socialized

>Communism in one computer node

Eastern block semiconductor production was many decades behind everyone else, Soviet computer technology was on lease or even stolen, and yet I'm expected to believe that cybernetics would save it?

>>2712409
>yes mass production of weed will be the first to be socialized
I'm in just let me know when you make the transition to a FOSS platform

>>2712420
you can just say you dont understand p2p
>>2712429
its already opensource on github, more than welcome to come contribute, would love to see it.

why the fuck are people so negative bro, nobody here does anything and whenever someone dares talks about doing something they are ATTACKED

OP I don't really fully understand your idea but good for you for doing something. Like, what does "production" mean here? If I want to be part of a worker-owned peanut butter factory in my country, how precisely does your website come into play?

>>2712615
cheers bro appreciate it. some people here cant fathom that maybe we need to update our strategy from something that failed 100 years ago.

Okay so basically think of the platform as a place where users can create threads for discussion, or "projects". Projects are public discussions/groups with the idea being to produce something. users tag the thread/project by channel/s, channels are user created and could be based on location, sphere of production etc.

You could make a project for example to create a community garden, people are free to join, signal interest, discuss a plan for production, plan for distribution. once plans have been established and selected via polling of members, actual meetups of activity are planned.

further, the platform facilitates collective funds, essentially, in line with the production plan, community raises funds to purchase the means of production, which then becomes part of the platform. via a non profit organization controlled by the direction of the users themselves.

the idea is that after enough time collective funds are no longer needed as the platform would have all the necessary means of production already socialized.

production inside the platform is completely outside of market relations, nothing like a co-op. imagine you had like a group chat for your family and bought property to be used freely by your family. now apply that to all of society.

it allows for socialization and non market/commodity production within the bounds of private property law. we are not naive, the forces in charge would try to shut us down. but this gives us practice in actually organizing outside of price signals, markets etc.

check out the (very earl)y frontend for demonstration. it is highly redditified, but these are basically just to express the idea.

>>2712158
Good job you defeated capitalism, now all you have to do is spread this model to replace worldwide production as the new mode of production. GL doing that with democracy (majority rule / mob rule).

Your truly and humbly, I fart on your efforts.

>>2712675
cheers bro! I'm sure your party vanguard will work next time. ill be voting for you

>>2712615
If you want to be part of a collectively owned peanut butter factory, here's how it would essentially work

>You (or anyone) can propose a peanut butter project on the site.
>People join as members, help plan, and pool resources (money, equipment, labor).
>All planning, funding, and production tasks are organized transparently on the platform.
>Before the peanut butter is made, the platform helps decide (by community vote) how it’s distributed, by need, not profit.
>Everyone can see where resources go and who gets what.

>>2712158
so you guys are into cockshott cybercommunist planning or smth?
who is your community? where are you from? any link with IRL communities and associations?

>>2712761
and have you any link with people already producing something and willing to put it on your platform?

>>2712761
cybernetic planning is definetly an aspect, but this is not explicitly cockshott related. we are a small collective of users primarily organized in a discord, with a small reddit sub too.
We are still shaping the platform, designing architecture/system design, trying to establish exact functioning of the platform, moderator recall. a variety of things. It's why we are reaching out now, we have a general scope, but want more input before we start building.

>>2712768
only thing people are producing at this stage is the platform itself

I see for now you have only the frontend, any idea how feasible it is to involve people pooling actual money without them fearing the organization to simply dissappear leaving them with nothing? While also allowing them to retire their funds if they eventually wish to.

Maybe it goes against your chosen philosophy, which I respect, but I personally wouldn't prohibit projects being oriented towards making more money for the collective. After all, as long as it is community owned and managed it will still be a step ahead your typical capitalist venture, and a few profitable ongoing projects can help the community acquire new things and extend the system. I repeat maybe it's not what you're going for, but it did remind a bit of Kleiner's concept of Venture Communism. Either way, good luck to you!

>>2712409
>the idea that sitting around and crying about how bad your wages are, will somehow create new social relations of production is retarded
yeah lets abandon the struggle of the real working class and all the proles wage slaving…

>>2712661
>we need to update our strategy from something that failed 100 years ago.
gonna be honest fam, the idea you will bring about communism by building an alternative system in the midst of capitalism without directly challenging it sounds like people thinking doing a worker coop will magically bring about communism.

I like the enthusiasm but it seems a bit idealist and disconnected from real life

still, I have sympathy for what you're doing, but I feel you gotta anchor it in established local alt communities and answer their real needs and expand it from there if you wanna get anywhere
typically, if you have a communist mayor in a small town, and offer him to work with the platform and promote it as a base to replace uber eats, connect local farmers with local restaurant, organize shared car rides etc

>>2713068
>Feasible it is to involve people pooling money

We are legally looking into an international non profit asset holding company. With potential lower national companies under control of overarching organization, which could be beneficial for tax and legal asset acquisition.
It wouldn't be an investment vehicle, there would no possible withdrawal of funds. Looking into clauses for foundation of org that would legally require, in the case of dissolution of the org, for assets to go to similar non profit orgs. The legal aspect we will be contact legal counsel once we have a more operational platform.

>Wouldn't prohibit projects orientated towards making more money

Is an interesting idea, and something I have considered. That potentially excess production, or even purposely could use it to acquire larger means of production. It would have to be strategized very seriously, based on member approval. I'm not categorically opposed to it, as a temporary strategy it could prove viable.

>>2713083
>Abandon the struggle of the the real working class

Okay my point was sarcastic against those such as the commentator who believe worker organization is the be end and end all of communism. The abolishment of wage slavery and freeing of the proletariat is the aim of the platform.

>Worker coop will magically bring about communim

Capitalism itself grew within the feudalist mode of production, the conditions proved right for it's flourishing and it expanded and overthrew the dominant mode.
We are not suggesting anything like coops (which are still restricted to market forces), or that it will be simple and easy transition, the political situation will be real. This strategy we put forward is not a wholesale rejection of communist party tactics, just they they take a secondary role, one of defense and acceleration of the developing relations of production.

>Anchor it in established local alt communities

These are brilliant ideas, and something we are looking into, we have members involved with food not bombs, and hope to use them as entry projects once we have the platform going. The prospect of involving local socialist majors etc is a very good idea. We don't expect this to start with energy production or satellites, the plan is that we evolve from the very smallest, minimal capital investments, developing and expanding the spheres of production as we prove credibility and grow in user base

I appreciate the genuine criticism, not simple knee jerk reaction, to what is a new strategy.

>>2713068
In terms of people fearing to invest, we hope to start with very small local, minimal capital investment projects, things like food for homeless type activities. Once people gain some trust, and see the platform in action, people will be more likely to invest in more complex productive practices.

>blockchain social media
so one person posts CSAM and now it's permanently part of the chain

>>2712158
was this the ACP outreach app?
Are you not worried about lawfare with assets held in trust by a non-profit?

Also lol @ this bullshit:
>Voting rules

• Proposal passes with ≥70% yes votes
  
• Minimum 20% of members must vote for result to count
  
• Vote required to remove a manager (including project creator)
  
• Vote required to promote member to manager

>>2713494
>>2713562
I've come to the conclusion this is counter-revolutionary propaganda to poison the well of effective and efficient software to network resources and labor. The Social Production project propagandists are now under arrest.

>>2712158
keep doing your thing. don't let the haters get you down. don't worry about this place. it's just mentally ill people, naysayers, and haters, who think everything short of another 1917 is a nothingburger.

>>2712384
you think you're so cool for spamming this picture

>>2713562
How do you propose we remove "leadership", establish plan approval etc? Everything is up for debate, it's why we are reaching out. These are just example rules to prevent moderation essentially having the ability to dictate. People would not be forced to vote but those who wish to have moderation abilities need to maintain a positive ratio of confidence.
>>2713252
The Blockchain just records transactions, it would say that something happened. The actual data would of course be deleted from database.
>>2713494
Nothing to do with ACP. Assets like everything else would be under management of user base also, written into constitution of foundation. Further legal counsel is needed certainly.
>>2713630
Cheers, I'm not worried, I didn't expect anything less from here. Besides the morons that think 100 year old strategy adapted to largely pre proletarianized fuedalistic Russia is relevant in highly developed capitalist societies, there has been productive criticism.

>>2713630
>who think everything short of another 1917 is a nothingburger.
It is, and I don't hate OP's project.

>>2714250
No reason the political seizure of capitalist apparatus can't happen in conjunction with an underlying transformation of productive relations. Defending and accelerating the growth of the new economy, as opposed to being the primary goal.

Interesting idea, but this feels like something you should be bringing as a tool to irl community groups as a way for them to organize better. If you can prove that local groups could use it effectively, then a goal of a more global platform could slowly build.

>All collective assets are held in trust by a non-profit foundation, managed transparently and only as directed by community decisions
I feel like the platform shouldn't have any centralized control like this. Instead allow existing non-profits to register for their respective areas. Well managed ones will build a reputation on the platform, and bad actors could be filtered out more easily. It also gives a more direct target that isn't the platform itself if people abuse the system.

Also, while crypto is largely a meme for retarded gamblers, baking in a crypto into the platform could be useful. Release coins to participants of verified projects, and eventually use as a transaction medium across different projects/groups. You will have to break the primary form of liquidity (USD) if you want to escape from the capitalist market.

is it an unstructured p2p network or a structured network? what is your bootstrapping process? how does peer discovery work? how do you deal with node churn? do you have a diagram of the network topology? have you written/run any simulations of your network? are you actually building anything or are you just advertising vaporware and expecting someone else to come do all the actual work for you?

>>2714650
>I feel like the platform shouldn't have any centralized control like this
The idea is to put the foundations control of assets under control of collective userbase decisions, set in the legal constitution. Essentially socializing the means of production into the hands of the collective. This is all within the laws of capitalist private property law. We are trying to directly socialize means of production for the whole collective, not for divided organizations.

>baking in a crypto into the platform
Would go against the design philosophy, we are not making a more fair capitalism, or divide produce by individual labour power. We aim to facilitate non-commodity, non-market productive organization.

>>2714757
It's a structured P2P network using Kademlia for discovery and MDNS for local. Bootstrap nodes are handled through the initial coordinator node phase. Peer churn is managed through periodic health checks and a three tier node mode system, Full, Light, and Gossip
We are still in design phase, diagrams exist on the planning repo in the github. It would be great if you want to check it out, put in some input. We are reaching out to the public to incorporate more minds into the design decisions. System design and architecture are being taken very seriously. I personally am not the right person to ask, we have a couple much more experienced system designers.
It is not vaporware, and I'm not just here looking for someone to build it. We simply would like more input for what is an open source project in the early stages. I'm waiting on a response from lead in regards to your questions specifically.

>mfw obvious samefagging
>>2713615
Thank you based cock shott

>>2714757
>>2714650
>Answer from designer
structured p2p, we use Kademlia DHT for remote and mDNS for local peer discovery. for node churn we have dynamic peer lists, content replication. we havent written/run simulations yet since our current focus is finishing the protocol design. we’re still adjusting the documentation as we go but they can check the current system design and network topology diagrams on github.