/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2742033
>but I think modern society evolved in a way we should prioritize freedom+democracy over any authoritarian regime.
the thing is that reactionaries will use the most "authoriatarian" means possible to fuck you up anyways no matter how nice, liberal and democratic you are

>>2742063
That's why I think it is important social organization, education, strong welfare state etc… because these things protect us from authoritarianism (it really does, see the example in western europe how the right wing parties never get to power no matter how popular they are).

I am not a regular liberal/democrat, the "social" emphasis is really important.

>>2742083
yeah and now they are reversing all those things that protected them from "authoritarianism" (meanwhile their daddy the US exported it around the world outside western europe for decades) because they are preparing for war
social democracy just buys you time, its a dead end

The central problem with social-liberalism, progressivism and social-democracy that materialized post WWII is that it teaches it's adherents to be helpless effeminate weaklings. We are only saved by the fact that RWer are all hysteric spaz who cant organize properly and hates each others so we win half our battles without doilg nothing.
You would hardly find a progressive that is pro-martial or genuinely into proactive violence and repression against reactionaries.
This is also tied with their lack of telos. Most intelligent team-workers people are progressives but were too self effacing/effete. Addicted to be the victim in any situation, really likes to represent ourselves as ugly weaklings because being strong and handsome is…. le fascism or wathever adorno decided…
It will sound like a depraved fedpost but this is why the Kirkocaust and those insane transgender mass shooter are a good thing on the long run, it's chaotic and morally wrong but itll have the second order effect of un-pussyfy the socprog like how Breivik/Tarrant unpussyfied the right in the end.
He who doesnt use ultraviolence will never ever be feared or respected.
Queers in the antiquity understood this. Gay guys were warlords and powerful politicians, transgenders were running violent religious cults, pomitics and being mystics etc.

>>2742120
>The central problem with social-liberalism, progressivism and social-democracy that materialized post WWII is that it teaches it's adherents to be helpless effeminate weaklings.
Wrong, the central problem with social-liberalism, progressivism and social democracy (pre and post WWII) its that they are pro-capitalism, simple as.

>>2742123
>>2742120
>>2742119
Funny thing about your arguments is that it is exactly the same arguments a fascist would use.
To me, it is a lack of perspective and confidence in humanity. Your scepticism doesn't help anything at all, it only makes things worse.

>They tend to be more stable and irreversible because of the strong social consensus over time
for the past century we have seen the smooth progression of austerity and stripping of social spending starting from a time when the tax rate on the rich was like 90% under fdr. nothing you are saying makes any sense and it is pure cope. you need to stop operating under the assumption that we are even living under a democracy in the first place. personally i do not have much attachment to democracy as i have never lived in one, ive only lived in oligarchies with various degrees of disfunction. the only problem with authoritarianism is you cant hold the ruler accountable if he is and idiot that fucks up the economy. that is the only reason why i think there should still be some form of voting

>>2742126
for clarification i am >>2742127 and deleted my post >>2742123 because of formatting issues
>same arguments a fascist would use
just because they would use them doesn't mean they are wrong. hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW rose to power partially because they were capable of diagnose the continual failures of electoral politics in bourgeois democracy. the marxist critique of fascism is not its hecking authoritarian but the fact that its class collaboration does not go far enough in pushing past capitalism
>it is a lack of perspective and confidence in humanity
this is moralistic garbage that has no place in serious political discussion. your "humanity" does not have any place in the real world where all parties hand pick candidates according to corporate interests, where to even run in office presupposes a massive amount of wealth or financial backing, where there are colossal propaganda apparatuses that overshadow the voice of any individual or group of individuals who do not have any sort of infrastructure in which to spread counter-messaging. the liberal is so small-minded that even the mass corruption evinced in the epstein file coverup is not enough to finally convince them that electoral politics is horseshit and their "reasonable" reformism is in fact the grandest utopian flight of fancy of them all

>>2742033
Universal healthcare in the US is a revolutionary demand. They're not gonna give up a trillion dollar industry without a fight.

>>2742033
i don't want to look gay in front of my homies by caring about the minorities and LGBTQIA and neurodiverse folx so i larp like it's 1917 and act like a chud. that's why i come to leftist politically incorrect dot org. and yet you damned woke radlibs chased me here and forced me to think about intersectionality again which makes me feel very icky inside… you are literally worse than everything. make it stop!!!! why can't we just go back to a time when men were men and dressed like lenin and women were women and dressed like krupskaya??? i hate you so much. i just want to be a worker in a flatcap in 1917. stop changing the way things work!!!!!

just kidding, my real problem with succdems is they cuck out to imperialists every time

socdem motherfuckers in words: peace freedom and democracy!
socdems in action:

>>2742126
>Funny thing about your arguments is that it is exactly the same arguments a fascist would use.
What part of my post makes you say that?
>To me, it is a lack of perspective and confidence in humanity. Your scepticism doesn't help anything at all, it only makes things worse.
You simply don't understand the way liberalism/social-democracy and what you call "authoritarianism" are connected into the global system we call capitalism. Social-democracy in western europe was contigent on the US putting the same type of authoritarians you fear in power for decades around the world, they relied on the imperial system that keeps causing death and destruction as we speak.
Also, I live in a country where there was an attempt at democratic socialism, and it ended up exactly as I pointed out here >>2742063
their confidence in liberal institutions got thousands of people killed by the inevitable "authoritarian" reaction, so sorry but I my skepticism couldn't be more justified, and you are right, I don't have confidence in "humanity" since that abstraction includes the bourgeoisie and their fascist dogs.

>>2742151
I agree with you to some extent but I still believe it is better to defend these things I listed because it is the best alternative we have to literal fascism.

>>2742165
>best alternative we have to literal fascism.
Who is we? Maybe you will get social democracy for a while, authoritarianism/fascism will move elsewhere.

>>2742138
>this is moralistic garbage that has no place in serious political discussion. your "humanity" does not have any place in the real world where all parties hand pick candidates according to corporate interests, where to even run in office presupposes a massive amount of wealth or financial backing, where there are colossal propaganda apparatuses that overshadow the voice of any individual or group of individuals who do not have any sort of infrastructure in which to spread counter-messaging. the liberal is so small-minded that even the mass corruption evinced in the epstein file coverup is not enough to finally convince them that electoral politics is horseshit and their "reasonable" reformism is in fact the grandest utopian flight of fancy of them all
holy truth nuke

>>2742033
>modern society evolved in a way we should prioritize freedom+democracy over any authoritarian regime.

How about the workers democratically own the means of production? You're conflating 'freedom' and 'democracy' to mean liberal bourgeoisie government. How is one class of people dominating every aspect of modern life 'freedom'?


>We should organize society within this framework and try to reform the system from within.

You people have been saying this for over a hundred years. Have you ever managed to get anything from the bourgeoisie besides scraps?

I'd suggest opening a history book at some point.

>>2742033

>A case for social-liberalism, progressivism and social-democracy.
>BEEP BOOP TRANSLATION
<A case for capitalism, capitalism, and "nice" capitalism

>We should organize society within this framework and try to reform the system from within.

That is never gonna happen, porkies will kil l you, jail you or make your life as hard as possible, or if you might be successful stage a coup against you like they did Allende.

>more stable and irreversible because of the strong social consensus over time.

what? capitalism is killing people and the planet as we speak and you want us to wait over time until everyone catches up and wakes the fuck up? plus there will always be reactionaries who will undo your work. see pink and blue tides, american system ,etc.

>We should invest in education to teach people socialist ideas

The current system is not going to let you do that. and porkies will not allow it, no matter how many elections you win, you will always have to concede.

>so they grow up being strong reformists and end up changing society over time

sure lets just wait 50 years, oh wait fascism is here now. waiting and waiting has done nothing for anyone.

>and fight against right-wing radicalism. That's what I think.

If you are not willing to use authority to put down your enemies, they will use it against you.

Also what will you do about the exploitation of the third world by your corporations? You know the welfare state relies on that right?

>>2742126
Effete non-answer with sentimentalist post-christian platitudes about "the good in each human mannn". Predictable response.
I am not a Hobbesian or a stupid vitalist, i am not even a pessimist since i did point out we win half pur battles without really fighting.
But you do need to be feared and respected, meaning capable AND willing to enact strategic violence on your existential ennemies and the ones that help them, and modern socprogs dont do this, well until the Kirkocaust that is.
It's a travesty for progressives no one kirked Matt Walsh and libsoftiktoks during the Biden years for example, we have only ourselves to blame for reactionaries feeling save enough to wreck shit. Only ultraviolence work against these cockroaches.