The United States simply does not need to be involved in this never ending morally void vendetta over a tiny scrap of land with no significant nature resources and very little actual strategic value. Israel is not necessary for the United States to continue its commanding military presence in the region. Other nations provide better strategic locations and do so for considerably less money and trouble.
Americans have already given Israel more aid than South Vietnam and Afghanistan and there is no end in sight. It's time to walk away from this quagmire. The majority of American voters agree with this, and American foreign policy should represent the will of the people.
Military aid to Israel is illegal under an American law called the "Leahy Law" This law forbids military aid to nations that violate human rights. Israel imprisons hundreds of people with "Administrative Detention" which is jailing people for indeterminate period of time without a trial or even pressing charges. There are also serious allegations of torture and mistreatment of these people who are jailed unfairly.
In fact, any American aid to Israel is illegal under the Symington Amendment which forbids aid to any nation with a nuclear program that refuses inspections of its nuclear sites and does not sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty,
American miliary aid to Israel has also presented a security risk. Israel began selling military technology to Communist China in the late 1980's. The sales increased until Israel was second only to Russia in sales of Miliary Technology to China. These sales were instrumental in the modernization of China's military.
In Summary, American military aid to Israel is illegal, immoral, and unnecessary for the security of the United States.
whoa… its… illegal??? whoa.
>>2742895>The US should endYeah, I agree.
Bad goy
Why would it stop aiding its puppet?
>>2743073Because the puppet is more trouble than its worth.
They should surely be able to say no to their puppet when its own interests conflict with Israeli requests, right?
>>2743079Damn thats crazy, i guess ukraine also controls the west, especially europe
>>2743221Just because telling the truth will increase antisemitism doesn't mean you should believe the lie.
You will never trick USAnos into dismantling the petrodollar. No matter the quality of the atrocities done to preserve US hegemony.
The likely result is what's happening now with a faux liberal anti-zionism controlled opposition which will simply drop the topic and therefore the pressure as soon as it is viable to stop making headlines about it.
See Gaza for how that works. You entrusted your "activism" to media conglomerates and celebrities and generally apolitical organizations on the ground. So when the money saw fit, the incentives shifted and now nobody cares anymore about the genocide and soon, re-settling of Gaza.
There is no sneaking the revolutionary defeatism. You gotta be explicit with your goals AND THEN encourage the sympathies of "fellow travellers". Otherwise the bourgeoisie will simply buy you out and replace you with stooges. Every time.
>>2743246convincing themselves that israel controls the us is a way of absolving themselves of guilt. it means that the great american empire that dropped napalm and agent orange on the brown kids of the past was wholesome and good until evil israel made us bomb schoolchildren (that’s bad).
>>2743261
zog under trump, uog (ukraine occupied governement) under biden
Damn, occupying the us gov sure is easy
What will be next, tog (taiwan occupied governement)?
>>2743270>>2743268Is Norm /pol/?
>In this interview, political scientist and Middle East scholar Norman Finkelstein discusses the ongoing US-Israeli attack on Iran and explains why the current crisis is fundamentally different from the 2003 Iraq War.🔴🔴🔴
>Finkelstein argues that while the Iraq invasion in 2003 primarily reflected US strategic interests, the current escalation with Iran is driven largely by the interests of Israel, with the United States playing a supporting role. >>2743273No, he's just wrong
Toppling Iran would have been a big blow against brics, and especially China
Now that has gone south, its mostly "israel" that will be dealing with the fallout, while the us can just retreat to "their" hemisphere
>>2743281He's not wrong at all.
>>2743284Nuh uh, you wrong
>>2743273Max Blumenthal agrees with Fink too
>>2743273Israel successfully carrying out a genocide completely mind broke a lot of people into being idealist zoggers. It's funny because they do the same the pissraelis do when you point the materialist causes of the holocaust, they break down and accuse you of being heckin problematic. Gaza is the great alibi of the multipolaroids who can't face that Israel and the US are carrying out normal capitalist operations and not some the conspiracy of a globalist jewish cabal since they aren't anti capitalist at all.
>>2743273he's said that in comparison to people like Rumsfeld and cheney, these guys were highly competent and motivated, and its unlikely that they were manipulated or fooled into doing something like the 2nd iraq war.
however the difference with trump and his administration, Trump is a drooling chimpanzee, the rest of them are morons, he can believe that other people did manipulate intelligence and get them to begin a military operation, hoodwinking them into thinking they could just flip iran in a few days.
>>2743318Norman Finkelstein is literally Jewish
>>2743362you can spam hitlerian boer social media posts all day trying to build your strawman it doesn't change the fact that nazis (you) and zionists are the same, epstein literally brainfucked you guys trough /pol/, you're not fooling anyone, it's time to go offline
>>2743281This doesn't make sense, Gaza is obviously a massive break from the norm, and quite obviously so. I don't know why you are painting it as business as usual. Very sus.
>>2743381>If you post about the adl you are Hitler You hasabara bots need to update your training. This does not work
>>2743385>Gaza is the only genocide ever comitedPol mouthbreather
The common denominator for all the awfullness in the world is the west in general, not just the jewish part of it
Imagine what else we were right about. May I interest you in some negro psychometric and crime statistics?(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>>2743415>Imagine what else we were right about.Trump being antiwar?
>>2743424Only normal after the west came to power
>>2742895Who are you talking to? Any war will bring profit to all capitalists in the arms industry, to the financial capital sector using debt, to companies linked to the reconstruction of an affected country, to the extractive sector, not to mention all the companies coupled to supplying a war of imperialist capitalism, to maintaining the US hegemony of the dollar and the maintenance of collaborators and capitalists of the world integrated into the US hegemony of financial capital. Don't forget the technology companies that used this data for surveillance, that use this data to improve the repression of the bourgeois state against workers and communists. Agents of the bourgeoisie will continue inventing jingoistic and chauvinistic propaganda using reactionary useful idiots against what can no longer be profited from, exploiting workers in peripheral countries more intensely to access and control these markets and advance the process of accumulation and concentration of capital as the rate of profit falls.
The correct position is to organize into a revolutionary socialist workers' party independent of the bourgeoisie, uniting the interests of workers worldwide in anti-imperialist solidarity to cut off funding from financial capitalism and its puppets for everything. This means no loans, money, weapons, etc., removing the repressive power of the bourgeois state, democratizing it, and giving space for workers to build dual power, intensifying the class struggle to prepare for the revolutionary situation. The correct propaganda for the masses would be the demand for a public bank without any financial speculation or capitalist administrators, but rather controlled by a workers' statistical council, so that workers' wages are aligned with the price of food and workers' necessities, preventing the transfer of the cost of inflation to the workers. But this must be done by suppressing all private banks, driving them into bankruptcy and eliminating them. This is necessary to acquire financial sovereignty, facilitate the socialization of the economy, abolish private property, anarchy of production, and social classes. Another requirement would be to end all retirement linked to the financial market so that pensions are guaranteed by the government to workers, with the costs passed on to all capitalists, no matter how many go bankrupt, whose properties will be collectivized and expropriated as socialized public property or as workers' cooperatives.
Acting in the common interest of the workers of the whole world is written in the Communist Manifesto so that the proletariat becomes the new ruling class, and this is not based on resentment. Let's look at this quote as an example:
<The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.
<The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.
<The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.[…]
<The distinguishing feature of Communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of producing and appropriating products, that is based on class antagonisms, on the exploitation of the many by the few.
<In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848), Chapter II: Proletarians and Communistshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm >>2743580
Keynesianism is non extant on every other part of the economy
>>2743299well hes actually an idiot(in these matters) and not even a leftist
>>2743595Max is correct about Israel
>>2742895>The US should US doesn't work for you. state is an organ for class rule. bourgeois dictatorship works for capital. us imperialism works for wall street. they should do whatever makes line go up. when fracking boom is over rate of profit dries up. this necessitates elimination of competitors to drive up profit from monopoly rent. when petrodollar weakens line goes down. when venezuela and iran oil off market line goes up. therefore us should invade iran by its own logic, regardless of whether it is smart or even works. the alternative is a negative profit rate which is not a choice under capitalism. you must profit
>>2743597no he is wrong, capital controls us, not israel
>>2743331thats why hes wrong. too close to the issue and blinded by personal bias
>>2743607But he's not blinded at all nor wrong on the matter. He correctly calls things out as they are.
>>2743385gaza has gas deposits and is critical are for reducing insurance rates for pipeline from qatar to israel to med to europe. this eliminates russian competition and puts europe under monopoly control of bp-exxon-shell controlled by wall street. that should(would if it worked) give petrodollar another 10 years.
cant have hamas attacking pipeline infrastructure. that would drive up insurance and make pipeline unprofitable. hence current solution of lng tankers across atlantic but costs are high making margin low. thats why iran-syria-lebanon-gaza is critical
greater israel? no, greater Standard Oil Stock Price, yes
>>2743612no there is no material analysis. this is a communist website. international affairs are driven by the logic of capital not the whims of individual men and their ideology, which are isntead determined by the material conditions of societal reproduction. economy runs on petroleum. israel is a weapon for wall street.
>>2743624Also, Norman Finkelstein definitely does material analysis of matters. You clearly have never even engaged with the guy's material in any form if that is what you believe. Israel is far more than just a weapon of Wall Street as well.
>>2743630i know who norm is and i respect him a lot. but i dont give a fuck he is wrong israel does not control the united states.
>>2743634He is not wrong at all in regards to Israel's influence and power. He has documented this extensively his whole career through books and spoken about it a lot. You are trying to water it down to just Israel controls everything and that's it and if that is not the case then everything is incorrect. No, it's way more nuanced than that.
>>2743641I am not talking about capitalism and what makes a person motivated in capitalism. I'm talking about the influence and power that Israel has. You are making it so that if Israel does not control absolutely every factor than it is that they don't have influence or power which is not the case. There is degrees to these things it's not all black and white. Also, using the photo of a person whose country is in large part influenced by religious prophecies and religious extremists to say that it's purely motivated by capitalism. There is definitely missing the mark. Ben gvir motivation is not simply capitalism for what he pushes for.
>>2743648cut it out with this idealist bullshit about israel and nuance. you arent going to pass off anticommunism here and trick people into focusing on jews. communists are materialists. "having influence" doesnt mean shit. decisions are made because they effect profit rate. the bourgeois state facilitates decision making between competiting capitalists. there is nothing else. the person who is in charge of the country in question openly tells you he is working for exxon and you still think its the other way around. how much of a fucking idiot do you want to be
>>2743648It doesn't fucking matter if Ben Gvir believes in unicorns, unless those unicorns make financial sense they won't be materialized. Whatever delusions zionists have are irrelevant until it makes economic sense to pursue them.
>>2743641No it's jews driven by the logic of domination
>>2743270>occupationBiden's crackhead son was involved in the looting and privatization of Ukraine following the 2014 CIA/antifa/nazi coup. Taiwan is also a settler fascist slavery project of Han Chinese ethnic supremacy, the USA supports them like they did apartheid.
>>2743318>idealist…materialismmaterialism is when you deny objective reality and replace them with anti-Iran Trot zines
>normal capitalist operations and not some the conspiracy of a globalist jewish cabalJeffrey Epstein was an AI futurist, and Israeli AI generated targeted genocide is a world-historic particular event that does not follow your vulgar Marxoid universalism of "normal capitalism".
When old people heard about IBM using tattoos on human bodies to do holocausts, they think "German nazi". When young people today hear about "AI targeted drone bombing of children", they think "Israeli Zionist".
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/palantir-response-to-the-allegations-over-its-complicity-in-war-crimes-amid-israels-war-in-gaza/https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/podcasts/alex-karp-defends-palantirs-work-with-ice.htmlICE is trained by the IDF to see Americans as enemy combatants. ICE has a knee jerk impulse to call Americans "Hamas" (that Nobel Peace Prize winner said the quiet part out loud by doing the same to Venezuela lol, she's right, they resist the globalist cabal of pedos!). ICE follows deportation marching orders from the Canary Mission organization which is centered in Israel. Why would Tel Aviv have so much hegemony over deciding which people are allowed to live, or use free speech in America?
>>2743709
its anticommunist to promote idealism over materialism. fuck off
>>2743718scratch a multipolarista a hitlerite bleeds
>>2742895Firstly, USAmerican schools should stop teaching about Holocaust as an anti-Jewish genocide and intstead teach about it as a genocide of all non-Nordic Europeans (including also most Slavs, lower class Finns, and lower class Balts). Then wait 20+ years until these children grow up.
>>2743726
>people talking about Israel's influence and power
but thats not whats going on here. lots of people have influence and power. there is no point in bringing it up unless you think its proportionally more significant or determinative then raw material economics, which is idealism, and incorrect. if you are merely suggesting that israel has some/equal influence to a random senator or a B-tier state corporation then we have no problem. but thats not what is being suggested
whats that? lockheed alone outspends all of aipac? boeing alone also outspends aipac? exxon has three times the representation as israel? nonono you dont understand foreign policy is driven by individual personal decisions and drumpf was TRICKED by netanyahoo because his daughter married a jew!! if only the empire wasn't so dumb and blind they would understand that it doesnt benefit their citizens and voters to do regime change wars! history is driven by the whims of great men!
>>2743723Jewish power is a material fact, retard.
>>2743841Hitler or Netanyau speech bubble? Call it
>>2743851Are we really pretending that Israel is not Jewish supremacist state by Jews supported by Jews for the sake of Jews at the expense of non-Jews
>>2744200
Israel is absolutely a Jewish supremacist state. You are pushing Zionist propaganda
>>2744308
Jewish supremacist state
>>2744315
>the jewish proletariat
Wrong. There is no zionist proletariat. Zios subsist off baby blood alone so they are bourgeois
>The US should end
yes
>all aid to Israel
also yes but not enough
>>2744327https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/7th-congress/arab2.htmOnly liberal play semetic game. Real men call things what they are, like palestinian communists called the jewish a fascistic colonizer people propped up by imperialism
>>2744445I meant to say semantic but point is doubly made
>>2744468
Your ideology was made up be rich jews and protestants pedos, you are epstein
>>2744477Wrong. You engage in false dichotomy. You speak as if jews are not zionist. Palestine Communist say the jews are zionist.
>>2744481If that were the case non-zionist jews wouldn't exist, and they do, you jewish negro
>>2744482The jewish proletariat as a class is zionist
>>2744315
Wrong. The arab bourgeoisie doesnt exploit the jewish proletariat, the jewish proletariat expropriate and exploit the arab bourgeoisie. Today, according to official accounts of the government, 80% of bank deposits in Palestine are placed there by Zionists. They have taken over 70% of land plots in the central cities, 70% of plantation land in the country, 80% of external trade and a huge proportion of domestic trade, 30% of all arable land, and 80% of all industry of the country. At the same time, the Jewish national minority constitutes only 25% of the population of the whole country. In this way, Zionist capital not only directly oppresses the Arab working masses, but ruthlessly annihilates the petite bourgeoisie and in a huge way pushes out the middle and even the highest strata of the Arab commercial and industrial bourgeoisie.
>the (jewish) proletariat exploit the (arab) bourgeoisie
Ummm… Based???
https://brooklynrail.org/2025/04/field-notes/palestine-people-or-class-part-ii/>The “Palestinian revolution” saw the emergence of a managing class out of the intellectual petite bourgeoisie in exile, which, thanks to the circulation of political rents, was able to integrate proletarians from the refugee camps of Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria (and sometimes even non-Palestinian proletarians from those countries) into its organizations for the struggle. The traditional bourgeoisie was not destroyed but challenged: they had to negotiate with those organizations in order to protect themselves from the armed proletarians wearing the colors of the national flag. This is the typical engine of national liberation movements: a political leadership, aiming at forming a state apparatus, absorbs a social movement with a proletarian or peasant base or, more often—as in Palestine—a base in the rural masses being proletarianized under the weight of colonial relations.[…]
>According to the “classical” model, once the political leadership takes over the state, the interests of the social movement and the political formation start to diverge, and the proles are sent back to work by the newly formed nation state, supposedly for the benefits of the masses. In the specific case of Palestine, this delinking took place before independence was achieved: after the period between the Oslo accords and the second Intifada (1993–2004), the national cadres renounced the fight for independence, content to reap the rents and markets granted by Israel. Since then, the oppression of proletarians still takes the form of Israeli occupation and colonization, but without any perspective of struggle offered by the political organizations born out of the national liberation struggle, because its leaders had been integrated into this configuration as subcontractors. This is the well-known “double occupation,” widely prevalent in discussions in the West Bank.[…]
In the mid-2000s, some fractions inside Hamas pushed for integration into the autonomy agreement and participation in elections, with the intention to become, following the model of Fatah, Israel’s subcontractor for the management of proletarians in the occupied territories. This led to their accession to power in Gaza. Since Hamas took power through military means and without negotiation with the Occupation, it could uphold its image of intransigence, but objectively it nevertheless became a local subcontractor for the management of surplus proletarians.
I loathe the lumpen and their masters
>>2744916Nowhere in that document is it stated that a "zionist class" exists
>>2744916>Our task is not to ignore the national-revolutionary and national-reformist elements but to go to them, to organise with them a united frontOpportunism and National Liberation go together like a horse and carriage. This I tell you brother: You can't have one without the other
>>2745048>Opportunism and National Liberation go together like a horse and carriageits true. But Socialism and National Liberation go together like a horse and carriage is equally true.
>>2745076>Socialism and National Liberation go together like a horse and carriage is equally true.Really? Kind of odd how National Liberation tends to use Socialism to get some speed and then dump it in all but name once the Nation is "Liberated". It's almost as if Nationalists prefer cozying up to the national bourgeoisie to implementing socialism.
I wonder why, what a mystery.
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