/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2748356
Idk, shit happens?

It happened under the ultra-revisionist Gorbachev

it's the ukronazis fault

>>2748356
it was exagerrated by the west

Nothing happened it was all propaganda Chernobyl is still producing energy for Ukraine

>>2748356
It's standard praxis when an accident happens, everywhere.
Fukushima, Three Mile Island or when US nearly nuked their own territory

>>2748356
Didn't happen
But if it did, it was a good thing
It should happen again

>>2748358
lol seriously, there was an accident and they undertook a huge effort to make sure it didn’t get worse

The Russians claim it was sabotage by Ukrainian fascists working undercover in the plant. I'm more inclined to lean towards it being just pure incompetence instead.

>>2748581
what

>>2748356

Well the Reactor was built under Brezhnev (not an ML) and blew up under Gorbachev (not an ml), apart from that the event itself isn’t that interesting, large parts of the world are made uninhabitable by industry every day and doesn’t make front page, the only reason you know about Chernobyl is because it happened in the USSR

>>2748356
So you're saying the Soviet Union did a cover-up when it informed everyone in one day as the Chromobyl disaster occurred, compared to the lies that capitalists and capitalist states told in Fukushima and Marshall Islands? Or how the Soviets prepared for evacuation correctly and contained the disaster responsibly, treating the rescue workers as heroes, while the opposite happened in Japan and the United States. This also occurred with Gorbachev, who only had an interest in restoring capitalist relations in the Soviet Union, wanting to make it a capitalist welfare state; even so, the victims were treated better compared to what happened in other examples in countries where imperialist capitalism prevails.

>>2748596
I wouldn't blame Brezhnev for this; his problem is complacency with the degradation that occurred with the dictatorship of the proletariat under Nikita Khrushchev.

Never happened but it should have happened and if it were to happen it would be a good thing

>>2753778
khruschev was good for the ussr

It was a sabotage operation by the capitalist dogs to make the USSR look bad.

>>2748356
>What exactly is the ml cope
not sure why a standard engineering disaster (the kind of thing that happens all over the world) needs an "ML cope" or why such a thing should be laid at the feet of Marxism-Leninism.

Here in the USA bridges and buildings collapse, people drown in hurricanes, electrical infrastructure is neglected, similar nuclear meltdowns have occurred, potholes in roads wreck cars for years. Even more recent than Chernobyl was the Deepwater Horizon disaster, which ruined the entire gul of Mexico in ways that will be hard to fully grasp for decades. US corporation Union Carbide killed a bunch of working class people in Bhopal India through gross negligence. The Great Seattle fire. The Johnstown flood. That time America blew up an Iranian passenger jet for no good reason, killing hundreds of civilians… the list goes on!

Why are people even ML’s again?

>>2754424
it is the immortal science

>>2754424
why are you even here and not on fucking Reddit?

>>2753778
said something similar once, Chernobyl was a fuck up but any capitalist country would've handled it much worse. If some shit like that happened in the USA now we'd have 30% of population become pro-radiation.

>>2754571
MLs are petty reddit mod tyrants anyway, you would fit in just fine

>>2754619
Reddit is full of smug liberal pricks like yourself yet you're shit posting on a board with large ML userbase without getting banned. You could use some gulag though.

>>2754565
Isn’t that just communism? Seems kinda specific.

The CIA/anti ukraine racism is unhinged russian chauvinist cope not ml. In reality the incident is well known because the USSR communicated almost immediately with the world and did extensive and transparent investigations in addition to spending a lot of resources to clean up.

The big truth is that with nuclear energy something will go very wrong at some point because of human error and organisational mistakes which inevitably happen. In particular for this incident the RBMK reactor was chosen for speed of construction and ability to make plutonium over safety concerns and it eventually led to a human mistake being disastrous.

It depends: are we talking about the actual, historical accident that happend, or about the TV show based on a book written by a guy that lied about working there, and made up a bunch of false claims wholecloth?

>>2754418
Pretty much this. These sorts of accidents happen all the time for a myriad of reasons. One ought to be more concerned with how governments respond to these sorts of accidents. I genuinely believe the Soviets did everything they could to mitigate the damage. Contrast that with the response to the Fukushima disaster where they were just straight up dumping contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean. When other countries were raising concerns about it, the Japanese government threw a fit and called it seeseepee propaganda.

ITT: basically nobody knows why the accident happened

Both Soviet and Western views on Chernobyl blame it on operator error, but in reality the operators didn't even have enough information to know what they're doing was very dangerous.
The RBMK design was rushed and poorly understood, making it dangerous. Its designer knew that it needs to be researched more but he died and the project continued on.
They were in a rush to make RBMKs because, basically, Soviet planners were coalmaxxing and neglected the production of nuclear reactors. The VVER design, which is similar to reactor designs used in the USA, was supposed to be the one used for NPPs in the Soviet Union (and is used today in the Russian Federation), but they did not develop the production capabilities for producing VVER pressure vessels in the required amount. Meanwhile, the newer RBMK design consisted of a bunch of pipes you could already produce. Another commonly repeated myth is that the RMBKs were cheap, however the RBMK reactor is actually more expensive than the VVER reactor, but the VVERs could not be made fast enough.
Another issue is that an accident in the Leningrad NPP already demonstrated faults in the RBMK design that would cause the Chernobyl disaster, but operators of other RBMKs were not told about these problems. RBMKs were also supposed to be upgraded to diminish one of these problems, but due to a failure in management the upgrade for the Chernobyl NPP was delayed and the management of the ChNPP might not have even been aware that they were supposed to do that modification.

I wouldn't say that the Chernobyl disaster was caused by Soviet-style economic planning, but the Soviet Union's style of politics and organization of state enterprises are to blame. MLs will still defend them for some reason, even though they're to blame for most failures of the Soviet Union.

>>2754777
Industrial accidents happen, but I think the issue was really bureaucratism, excessive departmental secrecy. It helped the party run the country but it had its downsides.

Mailuu-Suu was arguably a lot worse but you’ll never hear about it from westerners because Chernobyl happened to le aryan and euro Ukkkrainians and Mailuu-Suu happened in Kyrgyzstan and westoids don’t even know enough about them to even be racist

>>2748356
Do MLs still defend the Soviet Union after Khrushchev? And in any case they wouldn't call the Soviet Union a perfect socialist state anyways so I'm not sure what your point is.

>>2754893
Nobody cares about uranium mining being genocidally dirty though, there are dozens of places like this, even in Japan, US or France

>>2754914
That’s what infuriates me about all the nuclear enthusiasts here, thorium is always two weeks away and waste disposal doesn’t matter