/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

What are all these reactionary concerntroll threads still doing here?

The mentality that causes people to break with the left purely over stuff that SHOULD be inconsequential like trans rights is one that has to be eliminated for exactly that reason. Why is the expectation always "If it's not that important, why support it?" It should be the other way around: if it's not that important, why support reactionaries and sabotage attempts at progress just to stop it? You're telling on yourselves: you care about it A LOT, more than economic emancipation, or you'd be ok with supporting trans people if it meant getting a socialist economy. The fact you're NOT indicates that IS NOT your priority.

>>2751804
>>2751804
What the relation of trans people and socialism here?

>>2751799
The left isn’t bringing up trans people. The right is.

The left:
>we should have universal healthcare
The right
>why so you can give it to transhumanists and immigrants????

Maybe if you stopped letting yourself be triggered like a fucking sleeper agent everytime you hear immigration or trans people you wouldn’t be so stupid.

>>2751799
>Left parties keep losing because they care about "muh privilege" or pendering to transexuals,
Hello, 2016?

>>2751821
Wait, are you saying that trans people are nazoids?

>>2751804
>What are all these reactionary concerntroll threads still doing here?
Here's my schizo idea: the current situation, heavily catalyzed by the Iran war is prone to cause libs and previously 'unpolitical' proles to seek out radical places on the internet. By having apparent leftists post blatantly off-putting reactionary talking points the porkglow will alienate a fair number of these new arrivals from socialism, conditioning them to instead associate it with transphobia, anti-feminism and select forms of racism. While, of course, causing people with reactionary proto-politics to feel at home, thereby further poisoning the well.

>>2751853
Schizo idea

>instead if they engage with the problem of the majority of working class, problems of like healthcare and job security
Left wing parties that only do this got electoraly exterminated uygha, especially after 1991. Oldfag leftism is not coming back anytime soon. George Galloway will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be PM, man.

even if that was true then the Amerikkkan people are my enemy

>>2751862
Actually, the true enemy is yourself, you can't master yourself, then you can't master anything else.

>>2751859
Then what's the future for leftist parties? What should we do to get the people to rally behind us?

>Left parties keep losing because they care about "muh privilege" or pendering to transexuals, instead if they engage with the problem of the majority of working class, problems of like healthcare and job security, then many leftist parties would take power easly
One small problem:

>>2751865
Truth is that once leftist parties embrace anti-immigration polices they would win easly, but instead they need to care about muhammad that raped a 12 years girls.

>>2751873
go back, or lurk moar

>>2751875
>>2751875
Did I say something that isn't true? Once leftist parties embrace hardcore anti immigration ideas then the population would follow them, but instead you see place like here where people somehow think that muhmmad that raped teen girls somehow was victimed of capitalism and has more right then a native.

>>2751799

the parties that don't "pander to transsexuals" openly praise people like Stalin which also doesn't resonate with the majority of the working class outside of russia

Ah yes, it's trans people to blame for the failures of the left.
If only those damn leftists parties would ignore the oppression of and/or spit on minorities and call everything woke!
Then everyone would sit up and become a ML like me!

Grow up.

>>2751799
People want "Peace, Jobs and Bread", not this "Allah, Cosmos, Xi Jinpeng" nonsense. I have no idea why you want to water down your messaging with bigotry and cultishness.

>>2751889
The point is exactly that: if many leftist start to pander to actual majority of working people, instead of demonizing their way of life, then they would get more votes and actually achieve power, but you see many on the left prefer to focus on the question of a tiny minority as if they are central to everything or the key, the modern SHOULD keep in mind the majority and not abandoned the minority, find a balance instead of going schizo and say pander they energy and time to some autistic transexual.

>>2751806
this.

>>2751889
No it's the left's fault for focusing on transhumanistees, they don't need to do that.

The framing of trans issues is wrong. Instead of going for a special snowflake angle they should go
>we dont care if youre black or white, trans or cis, gay or straight. Because a worker is a worker no matter what!

>>2751894
>you see many on the left prefer to focus on the question of a tiny minority as if they are central to everything … find a balance instead of going schizo and say pander they energy and time to some autistic transexual
"Many on the left" is kind of vague. "Many people say!" I think the reality might be that the people you're talking about are autistic transexuals who think they're the center of everything, but pretty much everyone does this, especially online, especially if they're younger and still worked up about the other kids at their high school who made fun of them or whatever. The most advice you can really give is to be like, you'll never see those other kids in your life again so fuck 'em. Also this is also true for the chud who gets triggered and has to act like a snowflake because he goes off to college and sees a flyer up on a wall advertising the LGBTQ+ club which makes him feel "unwelcome" because it doesn't place him at the center of everything. If they make you uncomfortable then just say it, you don't have to dance around this stuff about how "the left focuses too much on…." but it's probably not worth focusing on much either. Why let it bother you so much?

>>2751894
>voting in communism
Tru leftists reject electoralism anyway

These sorts of questions are not the center of socialist politics and you're late to the party anyway. Most 'socialist' electoral campaigns focus on the standard of living and public services like healthcare and hardly bring up sexual minorities. Populism is in these days. Does that make socialist politics more viable? Maybe. But improvements in popularity or seats won in an election are not the critical factor to socialists.

>>2751876
Trump’s whole heartedly embraced anti-immigration policies and his approval is >40 and “abolish ICE” has become a mainstream position now.

>>2751873
labour got decimated, lmao

>>2751987
No, electoralism under capitalism is pointless. Voting only starts to be functional under socialist and communist modes of production.

>Will I get banned here for not pendering to transexuals?
Yes.

I agree with you OP though, trans people and other sexual minorities should not be persecuted if >we are in power, and exclusionary, discriminatory policies should be reversed if they exist but, that's about it.

The problem is rightoid parties that are supposedly pro-worker draw a false correlation between comfortable single-income households and trans people “not existing” outside of niche brothels. I’m not pandering to trans people in refusing to pretend there is a real correlation.

>>2751799
>Will I get banned here for not pendering to transexuals?
I reported you, so lets hope so.

>>2752392
I'm a hardcore global south & second world immigration reductionist (the parasitic "qualified EHC" immigration in particular) and he probably fucked up anti-immigration sentiments for the 10 years to come by turning ICE into a political gestapo indeed.
Your correct point proves that these "dissident anti-woke leftists" arent acting in good faith.

The worst people in the world are trans and support trans so I oppose it. Send them all to gulags.

>>2753094
WAGTFKY

>>2751799
>Left parties keep losing
you mean lib/socdem parties? who gives a fuck?

>>2753144
These one actually win though. This is actually because as controvertial trans rights can be, it is still more organically popular than Based Stalin memes.

Actual left parties keep losing because they still operate as if the financial crash has just happened and the people are still enthusiastic for a radical chic alternative out of protest.
But that time is gone, people went back to boring "safe" technocrats because of overlapping and seemingly permanent global crises that nobody can actually solve locally but only manage and immunize their country against.
A left party today should pretend to be nominally one of these boring technocrats by dropping the infantile chic and sloganeering and instead only promote and focus on what can actually be achieved in one mandate.
Also in most countries leftist parties ignore that you need to first create preconditions for even attempting to steer the country towards socialism. If your country is occupied by foreign capital, foreign political institutions, if you don't even have your own currency and central bank, then you first need to reduce that dependency which is a very tough process because the very tools for achieving it have been squandered away by your compradors. Even if your leftist party controls the military and can coup the state and can survive foreign counter-coups you can't do the same over night with the economy because your starting point likely isn't the underdeveloped agrarian economy of the early 20th century but an economy that is already deeply integrated into and subordinated by Western capital.

>>2751799
The Left got PsyOp'd because they were too over-target with Occupy Wall Street. The Alt-Right was all managed blowback from this to create the Culture Wars so that the proletariat would be too divided to form a cohesive unity and rise up. It's really that simple.
We're 20 years into the culture war now. People have lost jobs, homes, communities and families over this stuff. The only way we're gonna stop all this is if we expose how it all was a PsyOp created by Capitalists to divide us so they can do whatever they want.
That is going to require pruning the Vanguard, real discourse and education. Maybe a bit of forgiveness and understanding, y'know - an actual show of solidarity amongst the Proles. So anyway that means it probably won't happen - but we can dream.

>>2751804
I don't know if you're aware but people are slowly departing the Alt-Right and the American Right in general. Trump was a real wake-up call for people. He didn't actually improve anything, especially not for the White Proletariat that was his base.
Anyone who was actually a serious Alt-Righter isn't Pro-Capitalism. They already have some root Marxist economic belief system whether they know it or not unless you're, like, an integralist or distributist or something - even then once you get down to theory there's not too much of a difference in goals just how you get there. Unless we get into internationalism versus I guess a more nationalistic viewpoint.
Another probable shock to you: before 2008, nobody really gave a shit about queers. Most people probably didn't wish them any harm. What made people want that was the aggressive anti-cis and government-forced propaganda into cultural norms and ways of life that made people unsettled. The rise of the Alt-Right was intentional blow-back, plain and simple.
Nobody would be against rights for Trans people or Queers if that didn't somehow entail batshit insane stuff like abrogating the rights of parents or if there was some kind of mutual respect between sexual orientations. It's really fucking simple but people struggle with this.
You guys probably totally ignored how Epstein and his friends were also plotting pushing transhumanist Fascism at the same time they were allowing the Alt-Right to happen, while in the same breath always pointing out how the Alt-Right was revealed from the same batch of emails to be something they all planned.

>>2751806
Let me guess, it's those fake Lefty "Libruhls," you guys never ever bother to stand apart from who are to blame - yeah? You've just never done anything wrong, ever. The only wing of the whole Political world who's shit don't stink.

>>2751879
Then it seems like to me the real answer would be to take a lesson the Alt-Right never really learned: stop pandering to unpopular foreign historical rivals of certain countries so early in the stages of education, yeah?
The Far Right never ever fucking learned this going back to the days of GLR and the ANP. Nobody with a spine and balls is going to LARP as the guys who tried to kill their grandpas. It's just not gonna fucking happen. The only people who are going to do that are maladjusted social outcasts who like it or not are not going to appeal to anyone in the proletariant and who, probably, have no skills of any value to the Revolution.
The only group on that wing that did figure this out was Patriot Front; they repackaged National Socialism by stripping it of the foreign revenge/power fantasy elements that only appealed to chuds. I can safely tell you they are the largest and best coordinated WP movement in the US. They have resources that would shock you. All that stands in their way is that they're basically just still LARPing like every other Far Right club - oh and it's basically a Pyramid Scheme to exploit racists. So there's that, to.
There are plenty of American figures who could easily be rehabilitated in a Marxist context. All it takes is not reeing because your favorite historical empire you 'tism about and fantasize being some high-ranking official or general in lost to the United States. Don't hate the player, learn the game.

>>2752392
The issue with Trump was he didn't follow through on any of his platform and ICE instead of doing what it should've done was used to prepare us for an AI-powered panopticon and not actually solve any problems at all.

>>2751799
they are called transvestites

>>2751799
>Left parties keep losing because they care about "muh privilege" or pendering to transexuals
no they dont lol

>>2751805
socialism is universal. 99% of <insert minority> are workers

>>2770400
99% of billionaires are workers?

>>2751855
nah thats pretty standard cia shit. like whining about hamas throwing one or two gays of a roof to get libs to support pink drone bombs bs scary muslims are somehow worse than imperialist pedos murdering hundreds of millions of proles

>>2751876
>more right
where do you retards come from. workers have equal right. blame the corporations who import immigrants because they want to suppress wages not the immigrants subject to their bombs. your own inaction is more of a contribution tothis problem than theirs

>>2770403
minority usually refers to immutable traits . billionaire is not a demographic group

>>2751799
>Left parties keep losing because they care about "muh privilege" or pendering to nig- i mean black people
>instead if they engage with the problem of the majority of working class, problems of like healthcare and job security
<they should do this by throwing a section of the working class under the bus so that porky can stratify wages based on arbitrary signifiers because thats "pendering"[sic]
lol great idea 👏
this historically worked out great for unions banning blacks and irish and definitely didnt turn italians into cops

>>2770405
criticizing persecution of homosexuals is not "whining". you are not a leftist.

>>2770287
>Another probable shock to you: before 2008, nobody really gave a shit about queers.
I don't think that's true, rather the moral panic about queers has changed, mutated, or evolved over time to focus now on trans people. There was a lot of anti-gay hysteria on the American right before 2008. It has been memory holed because nobody cares about gay guys anymore (also there are now openly gay and powerful Republican officials like Scott Bessent or CEOs of murder-killbot corporations like Peter Thiel is, rather than just the closet-gay versions). But a bunch of Christfags got really mad after Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage in 2004, and they went on a crusade to pass state constitutional amendments all over the place to throw up legal obstacles in other states, but then they got BTFO'd by the Supreme Court. There was a lot of hysterical propaganda from the right about how same-sex marriage would destroy Western civilization.

This is ancient history now but it was similar. In 2004, this was a wedge issue that helped George W. Bush get re-elected. A wedge issue is a thing where your party is united and the other party is divided, so you exploit the wedge as much as possible. (It was rare for Democratic politicians in much of the country to openly support same-sex marriage then, instead they'd come up with a wishy-washy position like "civil unions.") Obama didn't openly say he supported same-sex marriage until well into his presidency after the polls had shifted enough. So that was a thing. The right also, basically, completely lost that fight in the end. Barely anyone has deep seated negative convictions about gay marriage at this point.

>Most people probably didn't wish them any harm.
But that's also true. Most people didn't think about it that much. Really the normie position was that they didn't have any problems with gays but "didn't want to hear about it."

>Nobody would be against rights for Trans people or Queers if that didn't somehow entail batshit insane stuff like abrogating the rights of parents or if there was some kind of mutual respect between sexual orientations. It's really fucking simple but people struggle with this.
Well, I think there's a danger of imagining your sexual or gender orientation as an avant-garde thing that is going to completely upend gender or sexuality as it exists altogether. As opposed to just normal citizens in the same republic as everyone else. Also people freak out about sex. Like if gays were going on around with banners saying "anal sex now!" It'd just be horrible. Gays were successful because they shifted the frame from being about sex to love/marriage and also liberty, so their demands become accepted by the majority, because it allowed the majority to retreat on the issue in a way that felt like a redemption for themselves (very important in a society marked by a Christian cultural background).

But over time, I think something like that might happen with trans people. A lot of anti-trans stuff is really shallow. Like half of the rightoid guys on the internet privately don't give a shit about it, they just say things because they're afraid of getting cancelled by their own side, and some of them are outright gay/bi. There is online performance for grifting and signalling, but I'm not sure how many people give a shit about tricolor hair nonbinary gas station attendants which is just becoming part of the landscape in many conservative towns.

>>2770412
imperialist pinkwashing is not "criticizing persecution. backwards ideas come from material conditions. progress comes from productive forces which requires sovereignty.
>you are not a leftist.
and you are not a communist.

there is this idea on the left that the extremist right rose in popularity because they speak like the old left, they talk about real working class issues like affordability, which resonates to working people, but thats false. youre operating under a leftist framework and assuming everyone else prioritises the same issues as you do, but the vast majority of people arent leftists and genuinely dont give a shit about those things. not only that, but the extremist right is NOT leftist in rhetoric, they barely talk about the economy, their main concern is immigrants, homosexuals, women, religion or other sorts of idpol, and that is precisely why they are popular (that, and the multi billion dollar funding they get, which even establishment leftists such as socdems dont have)
you dont win elections by talking about the minimum wage anymore, you win elections by saying we need a christian state, women in the kitchen and blacks as a lower caste, this is what appeals to people

>>2751804
FPBP

>>2770439
if this bitch isn't 'woke' then what the hell is she? is she gonna 'left the left'? Oh wait she basically has done already.

Also how does she know that they only do this because she's there, Natalie, wherever you go, you're there.

However I do agree that giving pronouns is obnoxious, if someone has non standard pronouns then it's incumbent on them to inform people of this. There was this insufferable they/them in a space I was in who was called 'John' and had a beard, then got triggered everytime someone said 'him', like sorry John, call yourself 'Sparkle' or something if you want people to instinctively they/them you

>>2751804
It is inconsequential except to the reactionary under the influence of demagoguery and propaganda. I saw a clip of that Alex jones guy calling out Don's dementia and he's obsessed with inconsequential things because he's so emotional and irrational, but he's also a demagogue and zionist so it's partly crowd control on his part.

>>2751804
It is one of their last callouts before they lose all control and are binned permanently. Extinction is on the table and they know it.

>>2770511
>youre operating under a leftist framework and assuming everyone else prioritises the same issues as you do, but the vast majority of people arent leftists and genuinely dont give a shit about those things.
So true.

>not only that, but the extremist right is NOT leftist in rhetoric, they barely talk about the economy, their main concern is immigrants, homosexuals, women, religion or other sorts of idpol, and that is precisely why they are popular
There's an old joke about three guys walking through the middle of nowhere in Texas. One guy is black, the other is a Mexican immigrant, and then other is a generic white guy. The archangel Gabriel appears and says "I will grant each of you one wish." The black guy says, "my people have been treated very badly here, so I'd like if we all the wealth that the white people here have in this modern-day Babylon, but we also return to Africa together and live in peace." The Mexican immigrant says, "it's really tough being an immigrant here, we're looked down upon and made to do all this bitch work, so I'd also like to have this wealth and then return to Mexico where I can be at home with my culture." Then it's the white guy's turn, and he looks at the other two guys, and says "well I'm kind of thirsty so I'll have a Coke."

Really what I think is happening is that we're in a rapid period of change. So people are looking at utopian fantasies of a more homogenized and more simplistic life. They're not going to get it, though.

>>2770545
>There was this insufferable they/them in a space I was in who was called 'John' and had a beard, then got triggered everytime someone said 'him', like sorry John, call yourself 'Sparkle' or something
I've run into that a few times, and it was always from people who seemed to make no effort at actually transitioning. Like they didn't actually seem trans at all. Because I've met some trans people who really did change their names, their clothes, and took hormones, and they weren't like that. They weren't rich either, all of them with the possible exception of one were poor. Like I said, this is something that is more avant-garde or much more about a subcultural aesthetic or mode of activist politics than actually being transgender, and they emphasize the signaling to determine who's on the side of the activists and who's using the language of the enemy. I don't think it's totally possible to separate sexuality from politics, but I could never get into queer theory. It's like, if you want to learn about sex, go out and have it. You don't need to read too many academic texts about it.

>>2770587
>if you want to learn about sex, go out and have it.

based. I honestly kind of look down on they/thems, maybe I am just being intolerant and I don't mind using their pronouns but I also don't really get why they are doing it, transgenderism I get, but it's weird to me why someone would want to have no gender. I don't really get it, and I feel many are doing it for attention, especially if they make no effort to 'socially' transition.

>>2770600
ok that is too harsh. I am sure there are some legit reasons why someone would want to be they/them. But as I said I respect someone a lot more who 'conforms' to they/themness.

Transsexuals are the most advanced section of the proletariat, and I am not even joking.

>>2770641
Explain

>>2770651
Disproportionately left wing, well educated, intelligent, politically active.

>>2770405
>blame the corporations
In the real world and outside of intellectual abstract more than one thing is often true at once. People do blame the corporations, but the thing nobody seems to be able to answer to me is how the American Proletariat is supposed to deal with a theme that's be re-occurring across all attempted class consciousness since the late 19th century: Capitalists have always been able to turn to Nons as a way to scab the Proletariat, because Nons are generally more racially conscious and always willing to take a chance to fuck over Whitey.
Nons generally don't believe in some kind of universal proletariat; they believe in getting there's even at the expense of their fellow Proles.
This is a problem that no other successful Communist country ever had to deal with. These were all overwhelmingly homogenous. Racial D&C would be basically impossible in somewhere like 20th century Russia.

>>2751799
That is the last reason left parties lose. I don't mean just in Amerikkka or even globally. I mean it's a total non issue.
The fact is, even most "woke" people are closer to dark woke. That bullshit about woke is entirely fabricated by the bourgeois including and most definitely it's prevalence. The fact is, trans are valid. The fact is, LGBT do face a lot of oppressions in the micro sense of passive aggressiveness, singled out, family abuse, and the macro sense of targeted individuals politically and their rights circumvented.

People vote left because they want things. They want to be able to work at a job that doesn't treat them like a God damn animal, they want to self actualize, and they definitely would like to see some rich cunts like Elon Musk boil in oil. The problem is the left tries to appeal to liberals. And I mean actual liberals, not "woke". Liberals as in
>You…you can't say Elon Musk needs to be boiled in oil!
Why not?
>Because that's le'violence!
So? Not having a reliable job and your ass out on the street is violence, getting banned by retard pedophile moderators is violence, bombing foreign countries is violence, having the highest incarceration rate in the world and the death penalty is violence, violence is an every day thing for everyone. Say what you really feel…you don't like violent rhetoric directed as the bourgeois class.

The bourgeois class who you will never meet, won't do a motherfucking thing for you, and their existence factually and noticably makes your life worse.

The end.

Yes, we coddle people too much, but it isn't the woke element being coddled. There's no such thing.

>>2751806
>Actually yes. I mean if it were up to me personally, I'd like to see every last one of you fucking die and it hurt. Wah wah, I have lukemia. But, if duh healthcare does go to anyone… It should be transgenders so they're cute and suck my peepee, or the immigrants who don't speak a lick of English and mumble some ai generated rap music at you while stabbing you with a machete

Always double down

you're arguing with ai you fucking retards

>>2770439
>the moral panic about queers has changed, mutated or evolved over time
Very true. As a youngster I was at more than a few of these Pro-Life Marches. The overton window is constantly shifting, but what else is new?
If you want an insider perspective, it's because the place of outrage that these people came from was just over time revealed to be totally non-genuine. People with four marriages talking about the, "sanctity of marriage," didn't hit. The Bible Belt was already having a sincerity crisis and really American Christianity has been for a while. I can't put my finger on it but the truth is this phenomenon isn't exclusive to religion in America - I digress.

>I'm not sure how many people give a shit about tricolor hair nonbinary gas station attendants which is just becoming part of the landscape in many conservative towns.
This is something that I've seen also. We can debate how much of all this is psyops I guess, but like someone told me a while back everyone's some kind of Queer now pretty much and there's just no putting this genie back in the bottle. It's like expecting an actual Segregationist platform ala George Wallace to take on again and be successful, it's just not happening.
I could talk about this at length and say nothing because it's really something I've come to kinda recently, basically that all these, "Traditional American Values," and shit are skin-deep. There isn't some kind of genuine, sincere, religious, family-oriented culture in America anywhere. Capitalism has degraded us all, we are all but conscripts in the Surplus Labor Army. Almost everything we think is traditional started being normal less than a century ago. Our cultural values aren't organic, they're the product of extreme marketing and social grooming. That's why people have thrown it off so easily, it's not authentic.
I'm rambling. My real point is I honestly have no hatred for LGBT+ folks. But there is a serious problem the Left has and it exists parallel with the Race Commies.

Back when I was still a WigNat my biggest platform as an activist was ending in-fighting among the Anglophones especially. I guess as I transitioned to Leftism I've gradually come to feel the same about anything that divides the proletariat: you must have cohesion and a solid core. If you don't have these things you can't go anywhere.

>>2770511
>and that is precisely why they are popular
they are popular because they act like they are anti-establishment and the electoral left is pro-establishment and everyone hates the status quo regardless of how high the average person is on "false consciousness"
>their main concern is immigrants, homosexuals, women, religion or other sorts of idpol,
what "the masses" care about changes constantly, the only constant I can think of is safety and crime, I think you are middle class and you are projecting tbh no offense

>>2770511
I can actually solve this riddle.
If we're talking about Americans here, you can't deny the impact of our history on us as a people. We are individualists on economic topics generally, it's rare instances like the Roosevelts where we've succeeded in getting any kind of collective or state power to actually help the working class.
That's because Americans, a long time ago, internalized that they were on their own. It was the sweat of their brow and the strength of their right arm that settled the country; it's harder to get them to care about some sort of collective economic movement. It's very alien to them.
It's much easier to get them up in arms over the transcendental, the romantic, the idealistic - the intangible things they feel motivate them.

>>2770706
>Almost everything we think is traditional started being normal less than a century ago.
Hobsbawm had a concept called "invented tradition" that was all about this. One was example are Scottish clan tartans. It's a pretty recent thing historically speaking, they're not from the middle ages, and the practice is tied up with the development of modern nationalism. A lot of Texas stuff (where I'm from) was invented in the 20th century and was tied up in promotional stuff for business.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_tradition

>A set of practices, typically ritualistic or symbolic, aims to instill values and behavioral norms through repetition, such as saluting a flag before class. These practices attempt to create a bridge between an uncertain present and an idealized image of the past—an image often as much a creation as the tradition associated with it. Though these "invented traditions" appear to be genuine, rooted in historical images and symbols (whether real or imagined), they are actually of relatively recent origin and deliberately constructed. British historian Eric Hobsbawm, along with Terence Ranger, explored this phenomenon in their edited collection The Invention of Tradition (1983). Hobsbawm argues that invented traditions serve three main purposes: they foster social cohesion, legitimize institutions and authority structures, and solidify value systems and beliefs.

[…]

>Indeed, the sharp distinction between "tradition" and "modernity" is often itself invented. The concept is "highly relevant to that comparatively recent historical innovation, the 'nation', with its associated phenomena: nationalism, the nation-state, national symbols, histories, and the rest." Hobsbawm and Ranger remark on the "curious but understandable paradox: modern nations and all their impedimenta generally claim to be the opposite of novel, namely rooted in remotest antiquity, and the opposite of constructed, namely human communities so 'natural' as to require no definition other than self-assertion."[13] The concept of authenticity is also often questionable.

>>2770586
Morons like you would've purged Zhukov because he fought for the Tsar.
In general, Alt-Righters are some of the most principled people I have met in politics. They genuinely take stances because of moral convictions or an honest concern for their people. I don't see why it's inconceivable to Lefties that many Alt-Righters once they've seen that the wagon they're hitched to doesn't help them that they would eventually quit, y'follow me?
Let's think about it: let's say you're an actual, unironic, read-up NatSoc. Exactly how much more evidence would you need this isn't the way? Your supposed Great Awakening got the most Pro-Zionist, Anti-White man possible into the White House. He has accomplished nothing you voted for him to do, made a sport out of shitting on his base and is advancing the people you see as the authors of all evil at your people's expense.
At a certain point, what does it take to realize
>This ain't it, chief

>>2770587
>Really what I think is happening is that we're in a rapid period of change. So people are looking at utopian fantasies of a more homogenized and more simplistic life. They're not going to get it, though.
Real.
That's the thing I think it's hard for lots of people to grasp: there's no putting these genies back in their lamps. This is basic philosophy, some of the core themes of American Political Thought: a people exposed to and given freedom are not easily returned to slavery. Non-Whites are never going to accept second-class citizen status again and I've been expected to believe, somehow, Whites in this country are prepared to force segregation at bayonet point the same way it was ended. Anyone who thinks that is gonna happen hasn't lived life enough and most Whites really don't want to do that or even believe it's morally right.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle, you can only go forward.

>>2770713
what are some invented texas traditions?

>>2751804
>reactionary
Nice try FBI

>>2770287
Liberal identity politics are reactionary by default.

>>2770740
Then why is it so hard for Leftists to disown these things?
Why is it OK to constantly entertain Anti-White Third Worldist-esque stance?
Why is it OK to accelerate the clash between genders and sexual orientations in the favor of LGBT+ against heteronormative people?
Why - why - does the Left operate under a blatant double standard at the expense of proletarian unity?

>>2770746
You are not inmune to propaganda

>>2770730
A lot of the cowboy / Western stuff was adopted from Hollywood movies in the 1920s/1930s and pushed by businessmen to distinguish the brand from the rest of the South. It wasn't totally made up because Fort Worth was really a cowtown, but the Houston Rodeo (the largest rodeo in the world, they say) really only started to become a thing until after World War II. But it has about much connection to the Old West as the T.V. show Gunsmoke did. From 1870 to 1920 the city billed itself as "the Magnolia City" more akin to New Orleans or Mobile and would have parades similar to Mardi Gras.

>“I don’t want to oversimplify any interpretive theme but I really subscribe to the idea that the notion of Texas as a Western state, when you really boil it down to its essence, it’s really been part and parcel of what is now a hundred-years-and-running effort to escape what C. Vann Woodward called ‘the burden of Southern history,’” says Cantrell.

>Although the Texas Revolution has captured the national’s eye from time to time, it’s been mostly used for internal consumption. To captivate non-Texans, early twentieth-century Texas leaders had much more success with cowboy lore. Which is strange in its own right. Throughout much of the nineteenth century, polite Texans regarded cowboys with contempt, viewing them as unlettered ruffians with dirty jobs. In fact, evidence of this disdain for cowboy culture comes from my own great-grandfather John Avery Lomax, who claimed that his first attempt at gaining wider attention for the cowboy songs he had collected as a child in Bosque County was cruelly rebuffed. According to the story he related in his 1934 autobiography, Adventures of a Ballad Hunter, in the late 1890’s English professor Morgan Callaway told him that the songs were “tawdry, cheap, and unworthy,” whereupon Lomax took his manuscript behind Brackenridge Hall and set it on fire. That reception markedly shifted a few years later when my great-grandfather attended Harvard, where professors Barrett Wendell and George Lyman Kittredge encouraged him to collect the songs and their stories, a project that led to the publication of his first book, Cowboy Songs and Frontier Ballads. The book also captivated former Harvard man Theodore Roosevelt, whose hand-written introduction for it endorsed it as a “work emphatically worth doing and one which should appeal to the people of all our country.”

[…]

>Those trends percolated from the bottom up. There was also a top-down imperative, coming from the state’s business leaders, politicians, and history professors, who began to cast the settlement of Texas in terms of the settling of the American West, rather than the expansion of the slaveocracy. All of this culminated, in Cummins’s view, at the 1936 Texas Centennial celebration, in Dallas. In those pre-mass media days, such events—this was sort of a World’s Fair of Texas, with dignitaries and tourists coming from all over American and the world—were the best way to advertise and get your audience “on message.”

>And in 1936, that message was essentially, “Welcome To Texas, We Are Not the South,” all at the behest of a purpose-built state entity called the Centennial Board of Control. Its mission: to secede Texas from the lingering remnants of the Confederacy. (Note the absence of the Confederate flag in the poster above.)

>In Cummins’s essay “History, Memory and Rebranding Texas for the 1936 Centennial,” he writes that they were to seize “the opportunity to highlight Texas progress to the rest of the nation and thus advance the state’s commercial prospects,” via showcasing Texas as Western and not Southern.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/is-texas-southern-western-or-truly-a-lone-star/

>>2751865
You're genuinly retarded, France is the exact exemple of this, PS went all neoliberal and all went on cultural issues, this lead to the party being completly destroyed in terms of popularity (2% In 2022)
Mélenchon, litterally the guy who ended up third has centered his messaging on working class and economic stuff, thats the reason he's the foremost leftist figure in France.

>>2770789
Melenchon doesn’t capitulate to the right on said social issues though

>>2770676
>outside of intellectual abstract more than one thing is often true at once
yes but one is determinative of the other, one a cause and the other an effect of that cause, one is the base and the other superstructure, etc. Yes normies are fucking dumb, no they its not their fault, and no people who tweet dumb things and vote in ways you dont like dont actually have political power and are not oppressing you. To change peoples minds you change the economic structure, you change social reproduction, which determines consciousness, not the other way around. How do you do that? with political power. first organize then dtop then productive forces then social reproduction and economic structure. you must have the material base to support the ideal superstructure you want as right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby and so on

>>2770678
>>it's OK when
no its not and i didnt say that, its also inconsequential if an individual minority rejects the majority, where it destroys the movement when the majority excludes minorities as a group, since the workers movement for communism is universal rejecting, women, blacks, indigenous, disabled, gays or trans is tantamount to abandoning communism.

Posted it again award

>>2751799
can confirm. i cared a lot about the working class, but then someone said "trans" and i got so heckin icked out i became a chudjak fascist. so true. so true.

yawn

>>2770796
>>2770821
Lefties are doing the thing again where they pretend to not understand what someone is talking about as a debate tactic instead of dealing with the issue.

You can make this same argument for everything on the left

>Stop talking about the USSR, Mao and Stalin, you're alienating the workers!
>Stop pandering to Palestinian terrorists and radical anti-semites!
>Forget violent revolution, that's not what workers want to hear about!

Funny how these never get play on /leftypol/, but endless idpol concern trolling does

>>2770984
Most of the Proles are willing to think about violent revolution, they just see no one they would follow or a plan ofa ction that seems to actually get them what they want. Also, yes, sitting around jerking off your histrionic revenge fantasies doesn't appeal to anyone but fellow maladjusted freaks. Neither does LARPing as being something you're not and can never be accepted in anyway because you weren't born into it.
Do the work. Read the theory. Figure out how to apply it scientifically and stop approaching politics the same way you did when you were 14 coping with map-painter games.

>>2751799
A lot of people are purely selfish and completely willing to throw minorities under the bus but they don't care about oppressing minorities in particular.