I consider myself an extremely "soft" leftist, with a lot of care for "social issues" and personal freedom, but not exactly a hardcore "socialist". I'm not even talking about Marx here (I know some of the theory etc, but I don't agree 100% with it)
I am what the general public sees as a "leftist" and that's fine by me.
I am more of a social-liberal.
I am not american or european, but if I was, I would obviously stick with the Democrats and Social-Democrats in general.
I see most of you guys are not like this, you tend to be more radical to the left. I see no reason for that. For real, the world is not this big war you all seem to be fighting for. Many people stick to the center.
Try to convince me to be more radical, if you can. (I hate authoritarians of all kinds).
I am open to criticism.
Take notice I am:
gay man
from brazil
I support marijuana, lgbt+ rights and things like abortion
I am not completely opposite to capitalism (because I think to stop capitalism you would need an authoritarian government and I don't like that), but I like the idea of reforms and regulations.
I care about poor people, the disavantaged and the homeless.
The idea of supporting the "working class" is good, but some working class people have stupid ideas.
As I said, I am not completely against Marx, anarchists and really radical left, I just don't see myself being good at it because I like to think about every little thing and I think these positions tend to be more inconsistent than mine sometimes (for instance, support for Iran and dictatorships).
I think radical left tends to be a lot anti-gay and mysoginistic. You call us "woke" and neoliberal just like the right wing fascists do when we are just trying to exist. You blame us for losing while your ideas never win in the west and we do (sometimes).
Atheism is also something I can't agree with. I am a progressive lutheran and I believe we have souls and they're connected to God.
(I just don't see god as a "big father" in the sky but as a more neutral/immaterial thing, as it really is).
129 posts and 26 image replies omitted.>>2756502It goes to show that it is systemic to liberal democracy
>>2756453>This surplus value is something marx just inventedwrong, he took it from liberal economists, people that were progressive for their time and that you disagree with, since you are a neoliberal, the ideology of the darkest reaction
>>2756467>Marxism is a failed ideology and should be abandoned.If by this you mean communists were exterminated during the cold war by fascism exported around the world by imperalist liberals then yeah, this is the first valid point you have made. I don't think you would disagree with the fact that currently humanity is heading towards self-destruction, right? This is the result of liberals like you and the wholesome chungus monopolistic big business warmongers you want to protect "defeating" marxism, enjoy it, you already won.
>>2756509Sure, because police in Brazil is about liberal democracy and not literal fascism.
>>2756510Marxism is an evil ideology that makes people completely dumb and power obsessed. He was a literal satanist. Read hegel, understand what the real dialects really are (it has to do with spirit and self consciousness rather than materialism and "productive forces"). Educate youself, become free.
>>2756517>Sure, because police in Brazil is about liberal democracy and not literal fascismThat is police in every liberal democracy that you are praising to no end.
>>2756521How is the police in iran and china going tho?
>>2756519Because brazil is not a "liberal democracy"
are you dumb?
I am not even a liberal, you are saying that.
>>2756528The Chinese police is a terrible example for you because they are quite amicable by all standards. Meanwhile, in Europe…
https://apnews.com/article/britain-riots-unrest-social-media-misinformation-attack-5824d3136675e10d6a25c9e17287c994By the way Iran is not socialist by any definition I don't get why you would bring this up unless you're literally retarded
>>2756531>brazil is not a liberal democracyRetard alert
>>2756531>It's not a liberal democracy because the vibes are not thereYou don't even know what you are talking about lol
>>2756534Yes, china is very amicable.
Why aren't there any chinese posters here talking with us by the way? Can they join the conversation, or the police is being too amicable with them?
And no, brazil is not liberal, brazil is a conservative country. Liberalism implies a set of values that conservatives despise.
>>2756517>Read hegel,I did and I side with Marx and other thinkers against that spooked cuck.
>Educate youself, become free.Says the retard that worships the system of global ecocide that will make his country unhabitable in less than 50 years.
As I said, you already won, there is no need to defend your ideas here.
>>2756541>Why aren't there any chinese posters here talking with us by the way?There are Chinese posters in Leftypol, newfag. Another bad example.
>Liberalism implies a set of values that conservatives despise.uygha are you cognitively challenged. Have you ever read a book in your entire life
>this retard thinks people are arrested for posting on the internet
>meanwhile in the US…
>>2756011>its quite telling that this website is more tolerant towards neo nazis than social democratslook the kind of shit your "social democrat" buddy is saying
>>2756552Conservatives are against freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Only these two values make them completely against core liberal values.
If some people are against that and call themselves libersl they are just lying, like "mbl" kind of people pretending to be liberal but actually being hardcore fascists.
>>2756558Literally, everything I did was being against expropriation and orthodox marxism and that was enough for you to be crying about. Grow up. Being left is not being a terrorist.
>>2756559>muh free speechSo the United States is your ideal of society?
>conservatives are against freedom of speechNo they're fucking not.
>hardcore fascism is when no freedom of speechJust admit you want to insult black people with slurs, little boy.
>>2756564If you're in favor of private property of the means of production, you're not a leftist, by definition. Retarded petista.
>>2756541>>2756559>And no, brazil is not liberal, brazil is a conservative countryYou are actually using the burger definition of liberal. Do you know why Brazil is considered a liberal democracy?
>Conservatives are against freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Only these two values make them completely against core liberal values.I guess the UK is no longer a liberal democracy
>>2756569>So the United States is your ideal of society?NTA but the US doesn't have free speech in the slightest
>>2756569>So the United States is your ideal of societyIt clearly is with the way he is defining liberal. This is the classic Brazilian who feels inferior to what he envisions as a squeaky clean liberal democratic west
>>2756571There is no place in the world that has "freedom of speech", because there are material consequences to speech regardless if they're in the law/constitution or not. That's the point.
>>2756569YES, I AM NOT AN ORTHODOX MARXIST
I AM IN FAVOR OF PRIVATE PROPERTY OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION
AND I AM A LEFTIST, BECAUSE LEFT AND RIGHT DIVISION IS NOT BASED ON KARL MARX'S IDEOLOGY.
Are you happy?
>>2755890You're fine. Don't get your advice for how to be """radical""" from the faggots here. Vaguely left wing is my metric for good enough for most people. I'm pretty radical myself, but not in the way most people here would imagine it. I understand the limits of what is possible in a given situation/moment. What makes me a communist is the desire for abolition of Class, however that happens, or however long it might take.
"We're all social democrats in the short term" - Vivek Chibber
>>2756576 (samefag)
First time reading through the replies and all of you fucking losers dissappoint me lmao. You're so fucking cringe please god learn how to be normal
>>2756575You're not a leftist. Being gay doesn't make you a leftist. Is Nick Fuentes a leftist? Is Clodovil a leftist? Get a grip, idiot.
>>2756576>>2756580Actually you're an evil fascist because communism is evil and against freedom of speech of whatever. According to OP, that is.
>>2756576The idea of "class abolitionism" really gets me because it sounds a lot like "penal abolitionism" and "gender abolitionism" kind of stuff.
To me, being pro euquality doesn't necessarily mean you have to abolish all the differences. I think that's a huge leap.
>>2756582For you, left and right division is based solely on how the person sees the condition of private property.
You toss like 99% of all other cultural, social and even other economic issues in the trash to save your hatred ideology. It shows a lot about you and your endgoals. Clodovil was nicer than you.
>>2756584>The idea of "class abolitionism" really gets me because it sounds a lot like "penal abolitionism" and "gender abolitionism" kind of stuff.<I don't like how this sounds because the vibes are off>being pro euquality doesn't necessarily mean you have to abolish all the differences.Have you ever thought about reading a book before spouting garbage about what you clearly don't understand? You're way out of your depth
>>2756585>You toss like 99% of all other cultural, social and even other economic issues in the trashYou aren't able to correctly describe what left-wing and right-wing mean. You're a closeted right-winger.
>you're worse than a reactionary because you hurt my feefeesLeast schizophrenic liberal.
>>2756575left and right division is generally bullshit, but yes, marxists and capitalists both agree on the terms that private property is what separates the left from the right.
What is your conception of private property?
>>2756575>YES, I AM NOT AN ORTHODOX MARXISTyou are not even an unorthodox marxist lol you consider it evil and the same as fascism and you are glad the communist movement was destroyed, you are an ardent anti-marxist and anti-communist, this makes you a right winger
>>2756593Like how far down the CIA psyop do you even have to be to say shit like "surplus value was created by Marx to justify his evil ideology". Not even right-wing intellectuals think this. Insane levels of ignorance.
>>2756590>>2756591Left: there are inequalities in society, we should fix it
Right: there are inequalities in society, that's good.
The idea that abolishing private property of the means of production is the ONLY way to achieve equality is a radical idea and is solely based on marxism, a derranged ideology made for derranged people who cannot contribute anything to society but creating genocidal and empoverished regimes.
It is an easy way out, that's why it is so popular but also that's why it never works.
>>2756593>>2756597It is insane how you guys deify Marx. It is a religion.
You should fix youselves before fixing the world.
>>2756598how do you eliminate inequality if private corporations work wageslaves to death?
>>2756364I'm baffled that this great effortpost was replied with "but that's just your opinion man", "politics are about feelings", and "the proletariat is probably more reactionary than the elites". Motherfucker.
>>2756605Some people really need this treatment.
>>2756604"effort post"
Nah, just like the valie of a product doesn rely solely based on the work behind it, the value of a post is not based on its "effort". You marxist don't have feelings, that's why you hate people who feel something, like me.
>>2756602Better question, why do you think non-private property necessarily aboloshes slavery?
There are ways to fix problems within capitalism, but fixing problems withing socialism sometimes are way harder.
>>2756608>You marxist don't have feelings, that's why you hate people who feel something, like me.Least hysterical right-winger
>>2756608>Better question, why do you think non-private property necessarily aboloshes slavery?I simply cannot imagine how else to abolish wealth inequality than to abolish private property, and there within the class structure of capitalism.
>There are ways to fix problems within capitalism, but fixing problems withing socialism sometimes are way harder.I will ask again, what do you think private property actually
is.
>>2756609For real? I do respect some right wingers more than I respect some marxists.
I feel they have some valid issues against people like you particularly, but I also recognize you are closer to them than myself.
>>2756601I just agree with him on his analysis of capitalism and what is needed for it to be overcome, its funny that the guy that thinks politics is about "spirit" and believes the epstein class has a right given by God to exploit and rape is calling others religious in a derogatory manner
>>2756611>I do respect some right wingers more than I respect some marxistsNo fucking shit, you're a right-winger
>>2756610You guys are just so theatrical.
"I need society to collapse so my ideology will raise from the ashes".
It is an easy way for doing nothing, tbh.
>>2756612You abolish exploitation with laws against it.
It is not that hard.
>>2756614All property relations in the past have continually been subject to historical change consequent upon the change in historical conditions.
The French Revolution, for example, abolished feudal property in favour of bourgeois property.
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of producing and appropriating products that is based on class antagonisms, on the exploitation of the many by the few.
In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
>>2756614answer the question coward
>>2756613No, I'm not. You're crazy.
Case closed. I'm going to sleep now.
>I do respect some right wingers more than I respect some marxists.
fucking kill yourself you subhuman
>>2756614>You abolish exploitation with laws against it.you are braindead
>>2756614>You abolish exploitation (extraction of surplus value) with laws against it>People have the right to have big businesses>I hate authoritarians of all kindsJust make a fuckin' HTML document and lay your ideas out so you can see them all at once. You can't just let your ideas be this paradoxical and expect people to take them seriously.
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