Hello,
Some changes in website management are happening. As the people who use the website, you've got a right to know. If you've been active on the IRC server you know what this is about.
Essentially for the better part of the year the mod team has been stuck in a series of personal and site management conflicts. The way our "modocracy" works incentivizes as much consent as possible but also has no leader with the final say on things. This tends to create conflicts with a mod team whose members frequently take unilateral action with the idea that after they take it they can get majority approval for it. The current problem is largely due to such unilateral action made by a member of the mod team and the resulting resurfacing of personal and site management differences.
For now the site admin and I have settled on a way to fix this mess through giving me basically the final word on everything. There's not going to be different mods starting votes to expel other mods anymore because I'm the only one who can expel anyone now. There's not going to be incessant arguing over things that are basically irrelevant t most of you and mods leaving (and consequently lowering site quality due to reduced moderation) because I get to just end discussions if they're going nowhere.
The odd mix of democratic centralism and a sort of anarchist council that we had going is going to come back in the future, maybe in an altered form, but for now the watermelon military junta is in charge. Expect to see not too many changes from the normal other than maybe a more strict implementation of the rules and more bans relating to liberal intersectionality garbage because that's what I think the mod team should be focusing on rather than personal nonsense.tankieTankie
>>431552
Thanks to an ongoing gayop, the majority of the staff are now being thrown out to protect a mod who is Leninhat in their spare time. Yes really. This mod has gone out of their way to wreck the site relentlessly and has never gotten punished. Now their friend the sysadmin has decided to install their friend as dictator in order to squash and issue and squash the modocracy. I know not all of you always liked me but I always tried to do my best for the site. The reason you know my name is because I was one of the most active mods, and all of the active mods are being thrown out of power by this decision, in favour of another D0llars who is never active and never does anything for the site, but has the right reactionary-friendly political takes. God forbid we actually try to be a leftist site.
The previous admin, who steered our ship through the split with Bunker, already left months ago over this but I wanted to try and make it work. Clearly though, this can't work.
As I speak one of the mods who stood with me is being suspended for speaking out against this destruction of the leftypol structure we have had for three years, never to return.
Thank you all, and I always tried to do my best for /leftypol/.
With love, Caballo
No, he left years ago, then Krates became admin, someone we all trusted, but he left in disgust at the undemocratic and wrecking actions of Zul's clique. Now Zer0 is sysadmin but unbeknownst to all, he was part of the Hazite clique and he has stabbed us all in the back.
>>431530
Basically, reactionaries keep weaseling their way into power. Space_ and Zul both fit this mold. Space thanks to his alliance with Pyongyang et al, and Zul thanks to his Covid denial views, Haz admiration, and general schizo views.
Here's the new /leftypol/ roadmap:
1. Reverse any controls on posting outside of obvious 'heil hitler' spam
2. Fire most of the mods who won't go along with this putsch
3. Allow soyjak.party users to fully colonise /b/
4. Allow COVID denial to spread
5. Allow workerism and 'redbrown' bullshit to colonise leftypol
Expect this site to become indistinguishable from r/stupidpol or /leftcels/ within weeks.
tt
>>21425lol, stfu gorbachev
don't you have a pizza hut commercial to attend?
>>21429thanks man
>>21425we State Committee on the State of Emergency now.
tankieTankie >>21435nnnsdssd
>>431616noe
I don't remove the blame from caballo et al because clearly they didn't put anything in place to prevent this from happening, and were poor judges of character in any case. But as it stands if the "junta" is in favor of shitting up this site with official support for factional workerist nonsense then I would support another split.
Watermelon, is COVID serious or is it exaggerated? Is Zul
>>21415 the "COVID is a conspiracy" leninhat who posts in USApol?
As it stands, one side calls the other "workerist", and the other responds by saying "radlib". But the relevant point is that one side has suppressed the voting power of the other.
>Mods running things again by not bringing up critical issues onto the board itself until it boils over and detonates
Holy shit, how have you faggots not learned your lesson from last time? If it's even marginally an issue, you bring it up on this board to discuss, you don't keep it under wraps in the element until it explodes. That was the whole fucking point of transparency in the first place, to avoid this. This isn't "your" board, this is our board. Always has been, always will be. When shit comes up, you bring it to us, and you pay attention to the discussion that unfolds. The fact that we don't even know what you retards are defining as idpol or radlib in your chats (that is to say, we don't know if it legitimately is or if it's just false slandering), says a lot about the situation. So right fucking now, pair all of it. I want the entire context of everything, I want both sides of this, and I want real transparency with the anons of this site, you fucking retarded uyghurs. Do it, or fuck off, because obviously none of you deserve to be mods. Next brunch of people who should be mods should be people who don't want to be ones, because then at least those people will treat it as a responsibility put upon them then a social club they want to be in. Get the fuck over yourselves, get back to you jobs, or pass it off to some fresh group of people who will. I really don't care which at this point. I refuse to have this go like every other previous time where you can't do shit like you're supposed to, and where you put personal petty shit over the actual anons and their preference in regards to the board.
>>21449That's not me. COVID is real and the American response to it makes me incredibly angry - the "response" in America is a genocide of the proletariat and nothing else.
I don't know where the "leninhat" accusation came from. I don't usually post under a flag.
tankieTankie >>21452*ruining things
*post all of it
*Next bunch
>>21456>>21459picrel
>>21460These are the people that the new mod team wants to coddle.
>>21406Question for you Watermelon:
There was a questionaire about future site changes on leftypol; The results were never tallied however.
Now that this "coup" is done, will the "junta" be finalizing the report and moving forward with changes?
>>21449>the "junta" is in favor of shitting up this site with official support for factional workerist nonsense then I would support another splitTO ANYONE READING THIS SHIT. JUST THINK.
<juntaClearly a move by the new team explained in a joking manner. Have a sense of humor, for god's sakes, especially on a chan. If anyone here thinks that the new mod team will initiate DPRK 2.0 here is clearly out of their minds. What is said is that due to the temporary imbalance of power radical measures will be taken – as is typical in ANY political shift in human history.
<workerist nonsense"Workerism" is the meme thrown by typically Western radlibs and NEETs at actual communists who point out the fact that for you to be able to play Star Craft 2 online millions of working people have to produce shit (electricity, food, basic infrastructure) for you.
<I would support another splitNo shit. When a new takeover happens, you immediately fall into the category of someone thinking that you were right all along, instead of self-reflecting, then you drop the bomb: "let's split". Well fuck you, honestly.
Advocates of splitting, under the temporary "Junta" should be banned by the new administration effective immediately. It's almost as if this community has seen
TWO FUCKING TIMES ALREADY how "splitters" devolved on 8ch and on bunkerchan.
>As it stands, one side calls the other "workerist"Which is a meaningless slur, you brainlet. You live in a social and biological sense because socialized production.
>and the other responds by saying "radlib"Which is a completely justified response.
>one side has suppressed the voting power of the otherOH NO!!! NOT THE >>>SANCTITY OF VOOOTS!!!!!!<<< WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT VOOOTS!!!>>>/reddit/ >>21499new rules
https://leftypol.org/rules.html should be drafted immediately under the temporary situation, later improved for long-term use
>>21487Honestly I hope they also crack down on some of the lolbert bait threads hard too.
If they can somehow steer the board to be less western focusedI think it will help all around. Maybe get an African comrade to do moderation if possible.
The discourse in the anglo west is not only incestuous, but also of a low quality. Compare with vidabove werein its not even communists.
>>21486Maybe with enough effort you can get him to rape his mom too, fucking Kiwifarms sicko shit. Maybe focus on your own sad life.
>>21484>>21478>>21482https://soyjak.party/raid//res/7751.htmlThis was the big topic
>>21503Yes, Authoritarian against the proletariat, not against the state capitalist class
Read a book
left_communismLeft Communism >>21504Basically, the 'Zul camp' wants minimal, almost nonexistent moderation (which would pretty much let the right take over the board) whereas 'my' faction, the majority, wants to keep up a relatively robust party line in order to prevent the site from becoming stupidpol or leftcels or worse.
>>21514But I was a mod on Bunker the whole time we were there :(
>>21518I started lurking in the 8chan days
Janny autism has always, *ALWAYS* ended up in this shit
Just make a rulebook and force admins and jannies to obey it, none of that "democratic centralism" has ever worked. They should just moderate the site according to the rules.
left_communismLeft Communism >>21528I suspect this is due to a personel shortage more than a loose moderation policy. That or the mods are online at similar times leaving coverage gaps.
Timezone diversity would be hood if the latter is true.
>>21471>comatoastnever trust 7chan
i'm now in support Caballo
>>21528I consistently pushed for higher moderation due to the level of complaints yet I was told I was ruining everything and making up the discontent by people who literally only listened to feedback from Sage and 'Soy Noticer' on the Matrix chat.
>>21542No, it was due to wrecking, I was not allowed to moderate most things that I wanted to. (Or at least a lot of things).
>>21538Well like I said, they colonised /b/ already.
>>21543You fucking idiot, this isn't a fucking country, this is a fucking imageboards
You administer an imageboards the way you should administer an imageboards, with a set of well defined rules that leave no personal interpretation to the jannies
This isn't you even larp site where you tests your communist theories, autist
>b-butJANNIE autism has
YET AGAIN resulted in petty squabbles
left_communismLeft Communism >>21566Basically the faggot mods said 'they deserve it lul for being an avatarfag' (ignoring the fact that soyjakking is the ultimate avatarfagging)
>>21568We tried which is what caused this purge. (Zer0 is the sysadmin)
>>21583if i was mod, i would pass a "no selfie" policy censor that shit, retards
don't let comrades fall prey to this shit
>>21582R u dumb blad? That is the middle option, the 'constitution' option means removing that implicitly
>>21583Shay actually likes her pics being shared though, that's different.
>>21584>>21585I have never posted pics and I never will, for your purposes this is my face. But once again, observe the very fine people who support the incoming junta, schizo retards who just post any dumb polshit.
>>21591>I have never posted pics and I never willI've seen you with my own eyes on video chat sessions. You are a salty, ugly, vegan, fat mother fucker who will never amount to anything.
On a tangent: how does one achieve the state of being vegan AND fat at the same time? Does your diet consist of vegan cakes or what?
>>21487not going to ban criticism of china, belarus, or cuba even though i disagree with most criticism of those states and think the people doing it are useful idiots.
The most bizarre thing about the leftypol mod team is that the people who support more "authoritarian" regimes are the people who are less authoritarian mods.
>>21501working on it
tankieTankie >>21604Soyfag spammer reaching in his anti-janny folder to take a victory lap. Also the 'furfag' shit is a bunkerchanner reference.
You guys got fucking played, lmao.
>>21604defending avatar use is less than ideal, but banning people who let furries live rent free in their minds is good, actually. most anti-furry posting is pure 4chan brainrot based purely on "i don't like thing" which gets in the way of far more interesting analyses of the vanguard of parasocial e-commerce.
on a socialist and indeed a communist website, it is necessary to destroy the weeds of SA-derived furry hate so that a more advanced antipathy can be developed to the maximum extent. what the furry fandom is selling for $500 today, your university classmates will be buying in derivative form on twitch tomorrow.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21624Well I'm going to ask you for a while.
Is Leftypol in the long term going to be a shithole with all the feds, Leftcom, Leninhat, Chadolf, and later King Lear monopoly?!
>>21623This is much more analogous to a return to Dollars. Absentee admin comes in to cuck the mod democracy and do nothing while the board slides into chaos.
>>21627Thanks Socdemanon. I always liked you a lot.
>>21609Pretty sure you're thinking of someone else.
>>21625To be honest I wouldn't say the new admin is a nazbol, that's going a bit far, but Zul and his clique are definitely VERY soft on 'socially conservative leftism'.
>>21616>R u dumb blad?No.
>middle optionyes. i can see that
you didn't say there where something else or a part
just here the mods vote and the image only showing the votes per line
also it was still gay
>>21632>Mod democracyPure shit that ended up in this mess
Create a set of proper rules that leave no room for interpretation and purge the admin team every now and then
left_communismLeft Communism >>21625nazbol gang coup
bottom text
>>21631I think criticism of geopolitical enemies of the USA should be banned if that criticism is being done with state department talking points, we absolutely need a stronger policy on that that promotes principled criticism and not mindless repetition of whatever the US government says.
tankieTankie >>21640>create a set of rules that encompasses every possible postgenius, why didn't we think of that
>>21642back to stupidpol
>>21637No, actually, that's because of dumb jannies that are too stupid to properly moderate this site
Discussing if past "socialist" regimes were actually socialist or not is one of the core principles of lefty discussion
Sorry your autism makes you get all triggered at it.
left_communismLeft Communism >>21645>why didn't we think of thatProbably because all of you have autism
Moderating 4chan is not a problem despite having 1000x the userbase.
left_communismLeft Communism >>21644me, i do.
In all seriousness this would be aimed at posters who do nothing but criticize countries the USA has a problem with. It's not being implemented now anyways.
>>21646nonsense is already banned, no reason to ban it again.
tankieTankie >>21632>This is much more analogous to a return to Dollars.Literally meaningless ramblings of an apparatchik who has been deemed dispensable and obstructive. Please, forgive him, he is mentally challenged. He can not but – as the demagogue he is – refer to past struggles as if they were being fought now.
>Thanks Socdemanon. I always liked you a lot.SOCDEM GOOODEEE
>Pretty sure you're thinking of someone else.Nah, I was there too, and I remember your fat ass vegan face.
>Zul and his clique are definitely VERY soft on 'socially conservative leftism'.<socially conservative leftismLiterally: religious workers, "cis" workers, "white" workers, and so on. Yeah, FUCK ZUL for wanting to include them.
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21632based
so are you definitely purged or is there just a likelihood of it happening in the near future?
>>21641>I think criticism of geopolitical enemies of the USA should be banned if that criticism is being done with state department talking pointsthis seems like a great way to be caught unprepared by state department talking points when users go off site or otherwise have to explain things in a dynamic environment. (to family etc)
tbh i'd go so far as to advocate the hard opposite of this: someone with a mod tag could possibly make threads advancing state department talking points in threads, as part of a stated policy of devil's advocacy, so that people can't just go "ur cia!!" and are actually forced to counteract the points in question. (with the knowledge that they're being pushed by someone who doesn't actually believe them)
a basic skill far too many users lack is to quickly google things to confirm their own knowledge in their minds before posting. having "this is obviously wrong propaganda, but you've got to
prove it." threads would be a good step towards this.
>>21643the flags have their own logic based on whatever the thread i first posted that pic in was:
i am heartless, sabocat goes meow, trotsky is trotsky in a dress, the CPGB-ML is strawmanned, and i should've done something with the dog but i think i was in a rush at the time.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21652>Capicuntuyghur none of the state capitalist regimes you support even abolished commodity production lmao
YOU are the capitalist shill, read a fucking book
left_communismLeft Communism >>21658Apparently I still have mod powers, but one of my fellow mods M00dy was suspended for a week already for talking back to Watermelon. I think the new admins want us to stay and continue to do the actual work of modding while they make all the decisions and tell us what to do. Go figure. I'll remove CP if I see it, other than that I'm not feeling very invested right now.
>>21663Be religious if you want but I don't see why conservative idpol should get a free pass.
>>21656>Literally: religious workers,Why would you play to this? Our job isn't to flatter the relgious to our side
>"cis" workers, "white" workers, and so on.Who the hell rejected these ever? What exactly do you mean by this? There is no "white" socialism, there is only socialism.
>Yeah, FUCK ZUL for wanting to include them.What the fuck do you mean by "include", they were never rejected in the first place. What do you mean by this? No one can get banned for being white in the first place, its an anonymous fucking imageboard. So what do you mean by this outside of actual racialist shilling?
>>21675He was suspended for deleting other people's posts and generally being a shitter in the mod chat to be clear.
>>21685can confirm.
tankieTankie >>21658building further on this:
a secondary advantage of already having official devil's advocacy threads is that low effort bait threads (and in my view, that's what most "CIA" threads ultimately are.) could always be merged into the larger devil's advocacy threads for the same subject matter, bumping them into a higher quality discussion on the same topic.
(if anything, one of the problems with propaganda posted on this site is that, like the posters arguing against it, unless they've read a huge amount on the subject matter in the background they're not very good at advancing new and novel arguments. That is again bad preparation for a lot of the circumstances you're likely to encounter when having a free discussion with someone else, who will often raise intelligent questions rather than falling back to talking points.)
>>21690faggot should be wordfiltered to something else purely as a matter of cultural independence tbh.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21663>>21664FUCK YOU. I ATTEND A FUCKING CHRISTIAN SCHOOL, HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU GENERALIZING US LIKE THAT?
MARITIME SOUTHEAST ASIAN LIVES MATTER
>>21675>I don't see why conservative idpol should get a free passOne of the many sins of your reign is exactly this: you
intentionally relativized the well defined meaning of idpol. If a worker is religious, that is NOT fucking idpol, you retard.
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21694based
>>21701going to make a discussion thread for new rules soon, maybe tomorrow or the day after that. whenever i can get a list of all the shit that needs doing together.
>>21702bruh
tankieTankie >>21694Why should I care about what Gin "kill th
ee troons with hot lead" Jeet has to say?
>>21717yeah i don't like seeing a bunch of green numbers too.
Ban by IP tools should be used less frequently and ban messages are funny, but we should also include a rules citation - you're right.
tankieTankie >>21714>going to make a discussion thread for new rules soonif you're going to do this, i implore you to run with the quality of arguments presented and not just with what the majority of people seem to advance.
if we wind up with malformed anti-imperialist or sectarian rules, the primary beneficiaries will be imperialists and the worst sects and the primary losers will be the userbase as a whole.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21713>If a worker is religious, that is NOT fucking idpol, you retard.I didn't say it was fuckwit, that's you putting your own spooks into it. As if you can't be religious without gaybashing.
>>21714You wanted the top seat my friend, now sit in it.
>>21717The reason to wipe out post histories, or at least a compelling reason to me, is because it actually punishes shitposters. A banned message is just a big red 'pay attention to me' sticker, it's more a reward than anything. What shitposters want is attention, and by deleting their posts you take it away. For that reason it was a useful tool.
>>21728>What shitposters want is attention, and by deleting their posts you take it away. For that reason it was a useful tool.delightfully devilish. (though it does fuck up conversations)
here's an idea which i have no expectation for anyone to code, but which is appropriately sadistic: a button which moderators can use to take away a user's (you)s. their posts remain up, perhaps they are banned for a day or so but when it clears they can return to the conversation - with a catch. all of their posts made to that point will no longer (you) them. the thread reader suffers no inconvenience, but for the poster themselves the experience would be maddening, especially if the system was not publicly announced.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism sage, cuz off topic
>>21696>>trotzjeetThis meme emerged when I dared to crit Infra and was banned for it. If this is your standard for "Trotskyism" then I have no further comments.
>>21700Never left. When we take over, we'll have an AMA here.
>>21703Chicks dig it tho.
>>21705Sorry, str8.
Buy me 2 bottles of gin and maybe another situation will arise then. No guarantees, tho.>>21714Keep it up, comrade.
>>21716Even though I was critical of "tran.s" whatever I was never advocating for killing minorities of any kind (be it ethnic, sexual, etc.). Cope harder.
>>21754Ok but you are a namefag, and that is reddit so your opinion is irrelevant
Seethe more for my amusement
left_communismLeft Communism >>21695Yes, even the most "progressive" religious denominations are regressive/conservative compared to materialism.
>>21702>Caballo(lol)
>we(LOL)
>are on strikeLOL
>>21711>FUCK YOU. I ATTEND A FUCKING CHRISTIAN SCHOOLSo did I.
>>21712if not elected = facism
>>21715>go outside and touch grassBecause those who deny the fucking reality of US imperialism and their fervent legitimizing efforts via the media are the ones who need to "touch grass!"
Fucking rich, dude.
>>21717>this decision was made without any reasonlol
>>21722+1 (subscribed)
>>21725+1 (subscribed)
>>21728booooriiiing
dustbin: of history
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21744why not just push people to fight them
the primary reason to delete a given line should be that it's tedious, repeated a thousand times or whatever, rather than because it's false. if i say, tomorrow, that the soviets are responsible for the state of Botswana today, we could probably have all sorts of interesting discussions about Soviet African policy and the Botswanan economy, even though Botswana-Soviet relations were actually very limited.
on the other hand, if I want to argue that Leftypol are Democrats who support Biden's shit infrastructure bill, that should probably be deleted or anchored or redirected to USApol, and if I want to talk about how "Venezuela was rich before Chavez ruined it!!" that should probably be merged into a Venezuela general where people can spend 5 minutes googling a chart that shows that, for the purposes of Venezuela being rich "Before Chavez", they mean
20 years before Chavez, with two decades of neoliberal poverty in the middle perhaps explaining why Chavez was elected in the first place.
if you just go "oh, ban all of this" you wind up with an insular sort of thing where some /leftypol/ users will "know" that Chavez didn't ruin Venezuela, but can't actually marshal an argument as to why. They'll sort of sew together "America probably ruined everything", but they won't have repeatedly encountered historical context which can be put to far more effective use.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21742lmao
>>21745hard *yawn* from me
>>21756> I think Stalin did no crimesdangerously based
>>21763>caballo is in fact a lib so this is all funnyexactly
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21761>ENFORCE MODERATIONBAN ALL NAZIS, RIGHTOIDS, REACTIONARIES AND SOYJAKERS
DOWN WITH THE CAPITALIST HOARDERS, DOWN WITH THE FOUR OLDS
>NO MERCY FOR THE ENEMIES OF THE PROLETARIAT!
>BOMBARD THE HEADQUARTERS! >>21769>Moderators are party bureaucrats Lol no
That is exactly the problem, these retards LOVE to larp as le being Comintern bureaucrats and forget they are moderating and imageboards, which is why they come up with all these stupid ideas of "democratic mod team" and so on that leads to this shit
This site should be moderated like an imageboard, and this is something these retards do not understand
left_communismLeft Communism >>21781No, actually I win, I have always been critical of the way the board is managed, the other day I was banned for pointing out that Stalin support Lysenko's retardation and pointing out the Doctor's plot was antisemitic (!)
This is basic USSR critique and the fact that these autists have, yet again, fucked shit up brings great joy to me
left_communismLeft Communism >>21785Link evidence.
If true this thread needs to be locked.
>>21786Mod should just ban all fresh IPs.
I say this with the knowledge I'd probably get banned in such a sweep ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
someone ought to do an effortpost about how idpol is always first and foremost social signalling. it is flashing a gang sign, a provocative gesture. in their hearts, most people secretly believe that the board could be brought over to their preferred line if policies were fair, because their position is objectively correct. but when you're arguing all the time about 0.05% of the population it becomes very clear that your concern is not with the major issues of society itself (which could be discussed with far more to gain), it's with sending a signal.
the reality is that it's far more effective to suppress the gang signs entirely. the monkey inside your brain knows everything he needs to know about the other monkey based purely on their position on culture war issues. if you want to marshal monkeys around planning, you're going to have to soak any monkey who talks about idpol until he learns that's just not what we do around here. the gang sign of leftypol.org should be a fist to the face of idpol posters both of the right and of the left. discussion of the matter should, almost inevitably, focus on condemning people for becoming involved at all unless personally impacted in a major way. ("and even then…")
though there's an unfortunate difficulty with putting this into practice: when you do it, it is idpol. when i do it, it is common sense. and of course we can draw more insights from viewing it all as a game of social signalling: there is little to no perceived risk of /leftypol/ being considered nazi by outside observers, but some risk they may perceive /leftypol/ as "liberals"…
amusingly, this is almost perfectly analogous to the case of (non marxist) social class in Britain. it was once observed that rich and poor people in england tended to use the same words, while the middle classes would use "posh" euphemisms. the reason? a truly wealthy person would never be confused for poor, so had no need to use words for social signalling. the middle class on the other hand needed to differentiate themselves from the poor, and good manners was one way to do so.democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism
>>21747Showered two times today, mate.
>>21749Because I was getting raided by Infra shit ("OMG, please cum back" & "fuck uuu" x10) and I don't need that in my life.
In any case:
https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=16888045 (I'm uploading right now).
in any case, thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-IBkhdCC5M >>21791for the most part
>>21786the thread is deleted now, so here
>>21798I never bitched about muh authoritarian regimes. I said it was stupid to use state department claims as being grounds for banning.
this
>>21756is perfectly fine, but hardly what it seemed like it was originally saying
>>21818i am not, nor have i ever been a mod.
(though i enjoy how common it is for people to suspect otherwise.)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21809y
>>21811>>21742>Chicks dig it tho.>>21814literal non-issue
>>21792The problem with talking about any kind of "idpol" is that it is too vague of a term to the point that although it was first coined with good intentions is now used in an indescriminate way to shut down any talk about actual material issues minorities face.
Something that I heard before and thought was a really good idea is that we start making a distinction between "identity politics" and "identity chauvinism", where the former refers to the broad spectrum of politics regarding identity the latter is used specifically to the act of shutting down any discussion on identity that isn't done by members of this identity since it doesn't center the voices of heckin oppressed PoC or something which is something only liberals do. Doing that would allow us to actually look at identity issues in a materialist and scientific manner which can lead us to actual solutions rather than dogma and petty moralization which is what true liberation is all about.
For example: saying that people of a certain nationality are oppressed due to colonialism and imperialism and that we should support their struggle since it weakens the hold of imperial powers on the global working class along with calling an end for unaccountable police forces and border guards is a good thing since it is actually based on a real material goal that can be judged neutrally by anyone regardless of what identity they belong to and can actually bring the gap between identity politics and class struggle.
On the other hand, saying that ALL members of a certain identity group are inherently oppressive/violent/ignorant/etc. is useless and chauvinistic since it is not based on any real analysis and is thus scientifically unfalsifiable and the people who make these claims can't be held accountable for them.
This is in the end the only real distinction that I think can actually benefit everyone and lead to real material change.
>>21829is socio-economic class an identity?
>YESyou are a radlib
<NOwelcome to the club
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21828No.
>>21837leftists are genetically predisposed to splitting.
tankieTankie >>21836No, however this is the narrative purged fuckers want you to believe. What happened has been brewing for months – if not years – now.
>>21837>coupa revolution is not a coup
>>21840you are not addressing your own greentext, tho. There are literal *concretely existing* comprador-bourgeois states existing now that hold open their anuses to the Empire. To say that liberating them from this geopolitcal yoke is meaningless is peak ultra shit.
>>21841Lurk more, newfag, then.
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21839It is still better to use more precise terminology when talking about sensitive topics like that lest they get horribly misinterpreted.
>>21840It is undeniable that imperialist countries constantly stall social progress and coup socialist governments to keep their practically limitless resources and labor power constantly in their hands. Support for anti-imperialist movements even if they're not directly socialist still ultimately helps the workers movement in the end.
>>21848whatever you say flaggot
>>21825your definition of identity chauvanism comes very close to the existing term "standpoint epistemology", though is perhaps better suited to the specifics of
misusing it.
while your position might work well for (say) racial issues in the US, it runs into more difficulty with something like transgender issues, where people's materialist analysis is almost always shoehorned into their preferred escapist fantasy rather than flowing from any real knowledge of the relevant issues. if you don't like the idea of transgender people existing, you're far more likely to conclude that it's bourgeois decadence that will just go away than you are to conclude that sex reassignment surgery will still happen under socialism. conversely, if you're always fighting against teenagers who've learned the magic words "AGP" then you're unlikely to come to the conclusion that (say) the dynamics of the internet and state of gender roles in modern society probably do have some relations to some cases of gender dysphoria, because although that may be true such an analysis is far more likely to signal alliance with those teenagers than it is to improve people's wider understanding of reality as it is.
a dispassionate analysis is both difficult and unwanted: what people want is ammunition for their existing viewpoints. instead of advancing understanding, threads move in circles interrupted by the occasional good shitpost.
the best solution in that specific case, then, in my view, is to garotte any thread that tries to discuss the matter and in cases where a high profile figure takes a view, we should ruthlessly condemn their decision to get involved without having any discussion on whether their view is correct or not, just as we would condemn any other bad decision on their part.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>21853>whatever you say flaggotmy arguments
are
shattered
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21848>To say that liberating them from this geopolitcal yoke is meaningless is peak ultra shit.That is communism, not nationalism, yes
Nationalism implies you liberate the national bourgeoisie from the yoke of bigger foreign bourgeois
left_communismLeft Communism >>21853>Support for anti-imperialist movements even if they're not directly socialist still ultimately helps the workers movement in the end.'No'
Supporting national bourgeoisie in their fight against international bourgeoise does not advance the socialist cause, if anything it hinders it because it createsa multipolar world
If you believe it does, you are a retarded liberal and deserve a bullet to the head
left_communismLeft Communism >>21859>Nationalism implies you liberate the national bourgeoisie from the yoke of bigger foreign bourgeoisso boring, honestly
getting the claws of the Empire off of a nation is furthering the communist cause, full stop.
lenin_capLenin Cap >>21855What argument, midget?
>>21854My issue with any discussion when it comes to trans issues nowadays is that there are very few avenues where systemic and direct discrimination against trans people is actually practiced by authorities, most real material "trans rights" have already been achieved more than 20 years ago in most of the world, instead what's left now is empty virtue signalling that rather than being intended to help trans people are just a way to signal to the liberal elites that you're one of the "good ones" that respects trans people's pronouns and shit as if that is even a real issue for anyone who isn't a terminally online twittertard. All contemporary trans politics consists of nothing but empty gestures and any real issues that affects trans workers are already covered by regular socialist demands, thus trans idpol is mostly useless to the wider socialist movement and, as you can see for yourself if you ignore all the hellish online echochambers, actual trans people themselves. Trans people don't really care about muh pronouns and shit, all they care about is getting their hormones and living a normal life or as close to a normal life as possible.
>>21870All LeftCom posters are based and create intense asspain on tankies and dengists
Sadly anarkiddies like you get the bullet too :(
>>21871Come up with an argument or lube up that ass up boy because you are inferior
left_communismLeft Communism >>21861>If you believe it does, you are a retarded liberal and deserve a bullet to the headEmpty grandstanding that doesn't contribute to the discussion in any way.
I don't need to believe that weakening the hegemonic imperialist powers' grasp on the world actually contributes to the rise and thriving of the workers' movement, any sane person can see for themselves that the rise of alternate economic powers to the US's hegemony, even if they aren't socialist themselves, has directly weakened the US's hold and led to the appearance of obvious cracks in their system which have been exploited by the rising workers' movement, which is why there have been more worker strikes in America in the last two years than in the preceding 40 combined.
>>21900This.
Enough with ironic and unironic shitposting, use the hammer, enforce the rules, save this place from utter destruction.
/b/ is a place to hang out and post topics unrelated to politics, not a place that serves as a refugee for reactionaries and shitposters.
>>21900soyjaking must be censored for the good of /leftypol/, this I'm sure we can agree.
Let /b/ be what it is, a dumping ground for offtopic/misc. threads.
>>21406Hey tripcuck larping bitch
You will never be a famous revolutionary
You,will never be in a military
You will always be a keyboard warrior
Larping cocksucker
>>21889It's an interesting combination. I'll have to tell you, it's an interesting combination– not something that I would necessarily GO with, um, often… but it works! And that's the most important thing, right, it might not necessarily be, you know again, the most COMMON thing, but if it works it works, and, uh, in this case it does…
The garlic is certainly an easily identifiable flavor and every time that you know, you… have one of these little chips (that's what I think of them as), you'll easily be able to tell, "yeah this is the garlic right here", and… yeah! In enough quantity, that BECOMES the prevailing flavor, but otherwise, in a bite, if you just have one of these little chips or something, it's more toned down… actually works well with everything, I can't really complain… and um… *takes a sip and nods*
Yeah, it's more subdued. More muted. It's not something that steals the show and runs away with it… and uh, that's all that I can taste, right? Even as I ate that, that garlic chip by itself– uh, yeah of course it's potent, you can taste it, but it's not overwhelming, not overbearing.
A-again, it's not a bad sandwich… it all works, all blends together. And uh, I think what they were hoping to strike here is uh, the balance.
I thought it was pretty decent… so uh, I can't complain. Little pricey, but again, not over the top, not overwhelming, I think that's what they were shooting for. And I think they achieved just that.
So, out of ten, what am I going to be rating the uh, Garlic Bacon King? Out of ten I would say this is a, uh, easy seven point three, out of ten. Um, definitelybetterthansomeoftheirothersandwiches… recently… y'know, not the world's best! But certainly not the worst, either. So, uh… well there you have it! That was an assessment of the Garlic Bacon King sandwich, from Burger King.
anarchismAnarchism >>21406That looks like a pussy
Also does this mean non hierarchical systems don't work
Why were you not able to work it out without needing a leader
>>21919>Caballofurfag who bans for stupid shit
>Watermelonnuked bunkerchan (depends if you suck janny cock or not)
>>432969Apparently "pro contact" means that they are for interacting with children instead of avoiding them
>>21929Because of jannie autism
These autist actually believe the whole board gravitates around it, that's why their "democracy" only includes their opinions, not the opinions of the userbase
left_communismLeft Communism >>21921Soyjaks are the people's meme. It crosses sectarian boundries, generation gaps. It's more malleable than pepe, and thus it's popularity has reached levels previously unseen.
What is it exactly that makes the soyjak so despised?
>>21947I forgot my name, but I do not have a single 'jak on my harddrive
I feel the people ought to have a voice, even if their voice is always green and on the worst board, /b/
>>21914>>21920>>21938alright faglords, since i had the displeasure of reading the entire thing for the first time to the end so that you dont have to in order to fact check the drama whores on here and am bout to vom because of it:
summary as a reminder, one mod is on there who is a lolishitter and its the hideriposter who also comes on occasion to tell us we're girls and bottoms all the while the other identifiable /GET/anons like lain- and pennyposters are against as are many other anons in that thread. all the open 'pro-contact' pedophiles there are anonymous and otherwise unidentifiable with the exception of rumiaposter who did the coming out party post on that thread.
i need a cigarette. i fucking hate you for this and i hate this fucking site. i hope you faggots get DDOSed by every single kid with a computer living in the people's republic of china.
tl;dr: kys
>>21949soyjak is cancer, in fact the current state of /b/ is highly toxic, it's basically the reason why this happened,
/b/ should be for discussion unrelated to politics and for casual posting, not idiotic mindless shitposting/jakposting if you come here to ruin the place you shouldn't be tolerated.
>>21950I agreed with penny then too doesn't mean he isn't a fag. What you are ignoring is that they said that there were pro loli mods on /GET/
>>21953/GET/ is full of pedos and
>>21950is a derailing coping fag who needs to go back to his loliboard.
>>21953There was an entire pro-pedo thread on there. See
>>21914 for context.
>>21955this
>>21950>all the open 'pro-contact' pedophiles there are anonymousyes on /get/
>>21946What the fuck are you talking about?
How does that have relevance to my post you're replying about?
Your kind needs medical help. All you talk about is bearded men and soy all day
>>21964Mods are silent on this, maybe because it's impossible to tell
>>21975Haz is a cute girl
>>21971He was an original meme for /leftypol/, but the mods pulled the brakes.
The soyjak boogeyman swooped in to fill the meme vacuum.
This could have all been prevented.
>>21406Sounds fine, okay. Horizontal leadership/democracy isn't possible on open websites like this because there is a lack of physical repercussions to fucking around (ie, public beatings, social ostracization/bullying, or rehabilitory labour) and in the worst case scenario, you can just stick on a VPN. If you're going to run an imageboard or internet forum admin has to take the form of muh dicktatorship and anybody who has been a moderator/admin for any amount of time in a community larger than a handful of people would know this.
I'm assuming there must be more to this if people are seriously getting this upset, right? Is there something deeper going on that OP is masking or is the reaction we're seeing just some kind of weird e-drama spergout?
Also, are we on the verge of another split?
jucheJuche >>21954for making me read through that septic tank of a thread just so i could separate the facts out of the drama whores' game of broken telephone
>>21955>What you are ignoring is that they said that there were pro loli mods on /GET/<one mod is on there who is a lolishitter and its the hideriposter who also comes on occasion to tell us we're girls and bottoms>derailingtongue my ass bitch boy, thats been the topic on /b/, /itg/, /meta/ and basically everywhere on here that /GET/ is mentioned. this was mentioned here now, so im spraying my diarrhea about it here. tongue my hairy shitty ass.
>>21966>yes on /get/whered you think? thats where the thread was
>>21970>>21977i hope a gang of vigilantes find where you live you fucking scumbag. because you exist, this faggotry has to be undergone every day now on this site. shoot yourself.
>>21984>i hope a gang of vigilantes find where you live you fucking scumbagI won't tongue your anus but I am now more willing to believe that you aren't one of the bad /GET/ users.
one question remains though–why was the thread allowed to be up for so long. I remember posting gore on the thread and it being deleted so mods were clearly watching it transpire. Just that one mod?
>>21986>one question remains though–why was the thread allowed to be up for so long. I remember posting gore on the thread and it being deleted so mods were clearly watching it transpire. Just that one mod?i remember when i originally saw the thread i didnt enter it because i didnt want to. i felt it was bad news and then heard about it on /b/ so i knew better not to. so i do not know, but that mod's the only one on the thread. im working with what ive got here.
which, btw, is what you do with accusations serious enough to potentially endanger people who havent got shit to do with it, which is also why i fucking hate people spamming it and adding their own agenda to it
>>21988go and detach your genitals with a chainsaw, faggot
>>21964no idea, but i talked to him about it and he thought those people were unjustly banned - so he took unilateral action and unbanned them. Even if he was right he should have talked to some of the other staff first, but whatever. That is in the past now.
>>21991what thread are you talking about here?
tankieTankie >>21989Why do you people all have that weird autistic smug writing style? Like you're trying to imitate an anime character. It's a dead giveaway that you're some kind of weird shut-in autist. I get that you're doing here it to deflect because you're a hyper-individualist degen who can't engage honestly or defend your degeneracy so you resort to smug posting in order to annoy everybody into shutting up, but even when people aren't rightly pointing out that 99% of humanity agree you weird degenerates should be used for medical experimentation, ie when you're just talking casually you still talk in that weird spergy smug anime imitating way.
Are you so insular and devoid of human contact that this is the only way you know how to communicate?
jucheJuche >>21994This should be every mods prime objective.
Deleting posts is too harsh though, because it screws up discussions for future readers.
>>21999Your responses are the equivalent of a young kid throwing a tantrum to get what they want. Everybody thinks this when they see your posts to the point where I'm getting 2nd hand cringe from having to interact with you. You either totally lack self-respect or you're so socially maldeveloped you're incapable of seeing it.
It's pretty obvious that you're a shutin autist with an overprotective helicopter mum and either an absentee or low testosterone father who apparently failed to teach you how to act like an adult human being. At this point, it's clear you're posting this shit as a kind of cope on top of trying to shut up criticism, and it's sad because you lack a development theory of mind + introspection to be able to understand how obviously see through you are. Is your level of self-esteem so low that you can't at least make an effort to be respected by other human beings? Do you enjoy being seen as a worm, or are you just that scared of unfamiliarity and change?
jucheJuche >>22007I'm not talking about hideriposter faggot. Do you seriously think that /leftypol/ is a place to find "other human beings" or even find respect at all?
>>22007>posts in a board that cameout of 8chan<surprised when he finds deviantsbro. /leftypol/ is full of autistic faggots/NEETS/degenerates such as yourself, stop projecting.
>>22010Anon that's a 2D image and has no bearing on reality I hate to break it to you.
>>22011Who's "her"?
yugoslaviaYugoslavia >>22024CHEKA'D
>>22029CUCKSHOOT.
>>22015>but I don't want another split to happen over fuckin avatarfagsthat's why avatarfags are always discourage, because it leads to bullshiting like this and attention whoring from the avatarfag or by 15 year old redditors like
>>22003we have one less avatarfag at least, he was sus with the avatar with bathrobes and shit when comparing to the /get/fags here
>>22003>my twitter>actively using twitter he face funny tho
>>21406>more bans relating to liberal intersectionality garbage While polyps are ransacking dayly?
Stupidpol moment
On a more serious note, do not be too one sided in action, new staff or whomever is in charge at the moment. Decentralize but also centralize the work of moderation, crack down on the glowie propaganda but also the COVID vaccine fearmongering, ban the Nazis and transgender business of either side idpollers but also do not tolerate bigotry against people of color and females, and bring
>>>/b/ under control while also opening up
>>>/leftypol/. And put the
>>>/assembly/ board into the top bar so that it is easier to monitor by the users.
anarcha-feminismAnarcha-FeminismJesus Christ, I was gone for literally 8 hours and this place has already degenerated into an autocracy.
I had a conversation with our sysadmin who talked me out of leaving. Watermelon: Take that gay ass watermelon off the announcement section and try using it for real announcements. Yes drastic changes need to be made, but, this is not it. I have been saying these things need to change for a long ass time but no one listens to me. However, I guess that Right now watermelon, through no action of my own, is in charge.
Here's what we need to do if we want to fix our God damn system as I have been saying not just since dec, but, for like 2 years.
1. We need to put the link to the matrix back up on the announcements.
2. We need to actually start vetting people in the waiting room. (The discord that shall not be named already does vetting which on our part is disgraceful.)
3. We need to open up voting to the congress in the matrix (This will act as a check and balance to the mods)
4. The actions of the mods and decisions of the votes by both the congress and the staff should be upheld and if necessary enforced by the administration. Up to and including addition and removal of staff and Jannies should the mods actually find themselves incapable of doing so.
It's not hard. The reason why the system is failing is because there is no counter balance to the power that mods have. We need a second body made up of the congress who is impartial to the position of the moderators and only want the jannies to do their fucking jobs.
Running shit autocratically is just a nightmare for the people working under it and wont solve anything other than turning leftypol into one persons own cult of personality.
I am unaware of what exact reforms are coming down the line as I am no longer in the staff room matrix, atm, but, these are the changes that need to take place. heed my warning or not. I don't really care anymore.
At this point I am on hiatus.
AMA while you can I guess. because I plan on being on leave for 3 months or more at this rate. Can't really take the stress. Ask away.
>>22037good to see you again!
I have always disagreed with you about the nature of the problems on the mod team and the way the site as run, but I do agree with you that the mods of this site are needlessly stressing themselves out in stupid power struggles.
In response to your points however;
1. Alright, makes sense to me.
2. Makes sense as well.
3. I absolutely disagree with this. Anyone can join the congress room on the matrix, giving that room voting power is a recipe for disaster considering how insecure it is.
4. I have already said what I think about the congress room, but the mod team was tearing itself apart. We've lost three people to this dumb fucking personal conflict including you - and I want to restore some trust in the mod team that runs this site. We clearly can't do that at this point through the dysfunctional "modocracy"
tankieTankie >>22042As I have said many times if we actually get off our asses and vett people then it wouldn't be an issue. It's a false statment that anyone can join the congress. It simply isn't true.
It statistical analysis there is a law that states that out of 100% of a control group only 10% or so will actually participate. If we make the necessary hurdles to jump through the only people that will come out the end will be those who truly want to be part of the congress. I am unsure if I am going to be willing to return if it is going to be a continual autocratic control over the staff. I already deal with that kind of shit at work and this is supposed to be a labor of love for me.
It perturbs me why you of all people ended up getting the position of power that you have, but, you should be aware enough to understand that you are not the one that ultimately calls the shots our system administrators are. At this point in time you have been granted the privilege of this power in the midst of a crisis. Don't be a retard, please. Just keep the retards in line.
>>22044I didn't deliver leftypol into the hands of anyone other than the group that was supposed to control it in the first place. Things have changed a bit since then anyways.
>>22045I don't think we are that good at vetting. We will fail to find /pol/fags at least some of the time, and they're likely to be the most active people there anyways.
As soon as we get a new system and rules in order I will give up being dictator. I very well understand my position - it's not just me that thinks some radical action is necessary. I understand my job of keeping the "retards in line" too.
>>22047leftists have a pre-set unity limit. every ten million posts we go through this limit and split again.
tankieTankie >>220423 & 4 sounds reasonably
>>22045>Just keep the retards in line.nou
>a continual autocratic control over the staff.you mean what you tried to do with caballo.
>>22048Really it's as simple as asking a few questions that are above the average questions that anyone who haphazardly study Marx would know.
I mean, really, do we want anything less in congress? Let's be honest. I guess we can lower the bar for the chat itself, but, the congress should at least involve people, fairly, familiar with theory.
>>22049No, I tried to keep caballo in line with the set state of rules. As for many people. At the end of the day under the (current?) administration I attempted to give my opinions on the matter as pointed as they might have been.
Clearly that wasn't working. I have mad my positions clear as time has gone on and I still stand by them. It's that simple. As much as people want to revise history. It is what it is. I have never sought to remove anyone with out just cause and I have never sought to seat myself in any position of power, permanently. History will absolve me, etc etc etc.
It's simple, if you violate as a mod you should be punished and if you continue to violate you should be removed, if necessary. Removing posts you personally dislike is a violation of the power invested in you as a moderator until there is a clear consensus between the users and staff that such actions are warranted, a-priori.
>>22054>I tried to keep caballo in line with the set state of rules.and look where that got you, motherfuck think he a wise man
>personally dislike is a violation of the power invested in you as a moderator removing is something personal or a dox is something that every mods, much as i dislike avaterfaging and the user should've been banned for that and creepy shit in /b/. even when image was posted before the somewhat decision was understandable
>>22058Images uploaded violently by users that exist as part of the public domain is not doxing nor is altercations of sed images lampooning sed poster. That is not doxxing.
Doxxing is personally identifiable information that reveals the location and real identity of sed user. I Was, actually, against the uploading of pennyfags face, fyi, but, after finding out it was uploaded of his own volition, I mean…eh. It was the deletion of soyjacks that really set me over the edge, tbh.
>>22060I think so too, but this place is full of ex-/pol/ schizos that think that everyone who disagrees with them is a GETchanner pedo.
They are our friends, they always have been, and people wanting to break this friendship over such stupid things should be purged IMO.
>>22063I trust Zer0. I don't get why he is being thrown under the buss, personally. If this was really a power grab and not an (albeit haphazardly attempt) to keep the site functioning then why would he bother even asking me to take a break rather than just let me quit? Apparently I was the lynch pin holding it all together.
>>22064Lmao, no.
>>22028this is to some extent true (depending how you define furries, who are conveniently nebulous), but it is crucial to avoid getting confused in the middle here. that furries often tend to be wealthy* does not imply that
all furries are wealthy. (this may seem like an obvious point, but people love to make such sleights of hand. "furries are bad because they're rich" is a step up from "furries are bad because they're degenerate", but both are vastly inferior to dispassionate analysis)
*or at least, to have high disposable incomes.
>>22037>3. We need to open up voting to the congress in the matrix (This will act as a check and balance to the mods)i'm not going to pretend to remember what the congress is, but i must ask why it (and matrix) are to be preferred over doing things on the board where users can actually see them. (there may be a good reason for all I know)
something like the moderation discussion thread on Bunkerchan, if actually used, would seem to be an ideal small counterbalance to mod power. For all that it was often bogged down in 100 post arguments about someone sad they copped a 1hr ban for spamming the Grundrisse in ROT13 after losing an argument, it seemed like a good balance between free action of mods and user ability to question bad decisions.
I assume this mainly happens in Matrix now (the feedback thread seems much slower), but I and presumably other users don't use it, so anything we may say about this or that matter is going to go unsaid if it's contained on Matrix.
>>22045> If we make the necessary hurdles to jump through the only people that will come out the end will be those who truly want to be part of the congress. This is vulnerable to goodhart's law
uhh, or some other one. I like goodhart's however: yes, you will get those who truly want to be a part, but it should be asked - who truly wants to be a part? Will it be the people most dedicated to running the site in the best way possible for all users - possibly - but equally it's possible that it could be obsessives of one kind or another, the kind of people who're utterly obsessed with their own little hobby horse. You could try to vet them away, of course, but they may slip through if they're sufficiently crafty. (In fairness, some of our most notable obsessives probably aren't.)
I don't have the information to weigh in fully one way or another, but I'd emphasize that if you want to make people jump through hoops you should think very carefully about how you've set it up. It's quite possible that a lot of good people may be discouraged by relatively trivial matters
consider for example that I will spend hours writing in threads like these to put forward views on the site, yet I have never used matrix. Even if you think everything I say is inane and boring and you're better to be without it, there will be others who respond in similarly odd ways to tiny barriers., while bad people may be able to slip around some fairly tedious vetting.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>22054>Really it's as simple as asking a few questions that are above the average questions that anyone who haphazardly study Marx would know.A question I put to you out of academic interest: Would you base the questions on Marx on the basis that:
A) Congress (and presumably the site itself?) should take a specifically Marxist line (And perhaps more specifically Marxist-Leninist, or any other specific ideology)
or
B) That even if a /leftypol/ user is an anarchist, a syndicalist, an egoist, a social democrat, or what have you, they ought to be familiar with Marx as a matter of site culture or basic due diligence.
(And if both, how much from column A, and how much from column B?)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>22061>images lampooning sed poster>That is not doxxing.ok but doesn't change the fact that he well intentioned and to a normal man that is doxing
even if it was
lampooning, stopping that type of behavior can be sometimes for the better and not let it fester, just like stopping avatarfags
>>22065>I trust Zer0. as a user that's not part your
discord circlejerk. I don't
>>22067I actually was floating the idea of the assembly board being added to the public list of boards and open for critique of proposed votes and mod actions. The issue with allowing the board to vote is the barrier to entry is to low for an anonymous imageboard. Anyone can jump on and obstruct; this was originally my idea, to have the board itself weigh in and vote on actions take by the mods, but, the aforementioned objections were brought up as time went on and I find myself agreeing with them, so, I thought about it and settled for the matrix. That is why I think the matrix is the good middle ground.
>This is vulnerable to goodhart's lawAs far as this goes, I mean, I don't find the alternative to be much better. I trust the ability of everyone involved in the board to discern bad faith actors should they leak through over time. It's something we will have to play by ear. For all the faults of the current administration having worked under both an autocratic form of administration and the current one I would take the current one any day, personally. I think wreckers would make themselves known over time.
>>22066I want to be clear if we decided a break from get is neccesary I would support it. As much as it would suck because I have worked with the admins of get for some time now, I would support breaking from them if we so decided. But, we can't make any certain decisions until we fix our current administration
>>22073I mean ULP. Most posters seem to be on bad terms with them. I have gone through their vetting system though and it isn't all that bad, tbh.
>>22076Zer0 has never given me a reason to distrust him in the time I have been working with him, for what it is worth.
>>22068And?
The other two are not and pdf ones still support that nothing has changed
Just think of first two as a bonus
>>22084>one user makes a "you must be new here" joke>everyone is a pedo then.meds schizo.
I honestly can't believe how people like you keep thinking about pedos and GETchan 24/7, it must be tiring…can't you just…move on? get a hobby, stop seething for a change.
>>22086Who are the other mods?
The ones that keep constantly breaking and bending rules to push the site in a direction the see fit? I am not currently part of the staff, so, sorry. In my opinion the action Zer0 and the others took as a system administrator was totally justified.
Though I think Zer0 or one of the other admins should have just done it themselves. This is martial law, brah.
>>22079I would agree that having the board vote is a terrible idea, but having the board discuss them would be by far preferable to having decisions primarily coming as a surprise to the people who use the board exclusively. So long as mods take proper account of the quality of arguments rather than just how many people can rev up their proxies, it's hard to see the issue with having more discussion on-board.
(I suppose it, too, is theoretically vulnerable to the fact that sufficiently obsessive posters can make posts which superficially appear to be wonderful arguments, but which are really entirely hollow, but i haven't really seen that in practice.)
The difficulty with something like Matrix is that sometimes problems arise not because people are wreckers, but because they have good intentions. As an example, if we think back to the imposition of user IDs on Bunkerchan, that didn't come about with the aim of annoying people, but with the aim of making the site better. There's always a risk that by selecting a minority as representatives, you'll get a disconnect like that in the decision making process where nobody is acting maliciously, but by the nature of their approach make a questionable deicison. (In the case of IDs I was actually very impressed with the willingness to listen to arguments and take them on board, but there's always a risk that in a future scenario people may be more inclined to dig in their heels, especially if they regard themselves as the intermediary between mods and users.)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>22089>a user who has been there longer then you pretending to be a /get/fag openly admitted lolicon was common and then 3 years goes on, the user is now a mod encouraging Maps yes.
>everyone is a pedo then.rude stawman owo
>meds schizo.>4fag lingoNo.
>>22092No, no, I want to be clear: I want more discussion on the board itself. Hence why I think opening up assembly is a good idea. I just don't think that allowing anons to vote on anything outside of the matrix is a good idea because of faggotry.
As far as discussion goes, I want that.
And yes, I agree, history has show us exactly what you are talking about man. I haven't forgotten the post id's and the back lash it caused, lol. But, Like I said, the difference between then and now is that if we allowed a venue for people to have a respective say in the process of how, for example, id's came about then they would have no reason to complain because if they wanted to truly impact the momentum of the board then the avenue is open to them via the matrix. Unlike on bunker when we were still working solely from with in the matrix.
>>22096It actually makes much more sense given the context.
So yeah kys
>>22094 >>22077IRL even absent punishment if you fuck around and wreck your community you fuck yourself over to whatever degree, whether you end up physically starving or just having to live in a dysfunctional cesspool. You can also be physically beaten, executed or just bullied until you stop being an ass. It is certainly possible, although not in the fantastic libertine way that some here imagine.
Democracy however, absolutely is not possible in an environment of near-total anonymity, full of malicious people, outright wreckers and where absolutely zero consequences exist for fucking around.
I get that you're probably a zoomer who has never seen what happens in action when it is attempted but e-democracy & free for alls were the default on a lot of online forums & imageboards back in the day, and every single time it was tried it ended in total shit.
As far as things go I'm not in favour of just banning people because we disagree on x issue. I'm as anti-trot as it gets & critical of the Dengists but I'll speak out anytime somebody starts talking about banning them. If anything I'm more tolerant of "freeze peach" than most people here, but the imageboard moderation must absolutely operate as a dictatorship.
If you're concerned about misuse of mod powers then it's better to advocate for a clear code of conduct & ruleset as well as systems of accountability, ie a solid appeal process for bans. As far as I've seen the mod team have been pretty good so far & I have no reason to oppose the current course unless somebody can provide solid proof that this is really just some kind of dumb autistic e-drama powergrab.
jucheJuche >>22079>or what it is worth.that's the thing, your word from a matrix circlejerk doesn't mean anything at all
instead of your bitching in your group of circlejerks have mods that are actually from this community or just mods do the most basic things for once
>>22108No you,
i'm the uygha that reported it
>>22106The bot has been everywhere anon
This an't new and has been going on for some time sadly
>actual CPI hate everyone right now
>>22094The mod is a tripfag
That was another anon using the same flag
>>22114Ok, wouldn't be surprise if that was the same user
either way my point is stands with the same /get/ user base
The more and more i read this thread, i agree with
>>21570either become a democracy with people from here and not fucking Matrix oligarchy for circlejerking each other in your failing relationship group or
>>21570This was my idea btw:
Okay, so basically this is the gestalt official proposal, I was going to write a document with all the ins and outs of my reasoning, for that, you can go back through this chat and read what I have to say. Essentially, my belief is this: 1) there is somewhat of a consensus among mods and regular attendees to mod related discussions that some form of board democratisation is favourable 2) there are numerous different beliefs on what that should be or what it will look like 3) there is fairly wide consensus that the system of moderation decision making currently in place is not fit for purpose. 4) there is also a fairly wide consensus that, although democratisation is favourable to basically all, most recognise to a great or lesser degree real issues, among these, how can we prevent the subversion of such a system. 4) this leaves us in a position that, we must widen the scope of the decision making process on the board, I.e, democratise it, add more voices to the pool of those eligible to vote, while also making sure that pool does not become subverted with bad faith actors.
My proposal therefore aims precisely to target these concerns, in order to complete the above objective of democratisation to some degree.
While the ideal situation would be in my opinion direct democracy, there are very real threats to this, and very real problems with its implementation. Therefore, I suggest measures in order to smooth over implementation issues in a gradual, increasingly democratic fashion.
Thus, in practical terms, I would like the mods to vote on these 3 separate but cohesive proposals 1) that a union of posters be allowed to created by the posters, this union will act as the mechanism by which posters can discuss issues with the board. It will be owned by the posters, so that it’s independence from the moderation team can be assured. Initially, this union would be a place of discussion, and the will of the board discerned by the individuals who made up the voting body of the union. These individuals would be, those collections of posters who are currently engaged in the board moderation and have been long term. Gradually, more and more people would be added to the voting pool long term, it would be the specific job of these individuals to oversee this expansion. 2) in order to solidify this, myself and soy noticer (the initial inspectorate) be inducted in the mod chat, which would give us voting rights but no mod powers. This way, through the above mentioned Union, gradually more posters, judged good faith by said inspectorate, based on their participation in union discussion, could be added to the inspectorate voting pool and therefore the democratic process of the board. 3) I suggest that this action, if voted for by a majority of the mod team, would represent a binding mandate to enter into a gradual, good faith, long term process of board democratisation as described above.
*This might be sloppy I meant to write this from a laptop but needs must. I have thought through things like the constitution of the union etc
>>21406HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Enjoy your "Communism," leftycucks.
HAHAHA
GO
FUCK YOURSELF CABALLO
>>21410<GOES AWAY FOR A WEEK>TURNS OUT CABALLO HAS BEEN YEETEDDAMN THIS FEELS GOOD
>Waah waah LeninistGOOD, YOU COUNTERREV ANARCHO-SOCDEM SNAKE
FUUUCK YOUUU>>21410Caballo please this emotional manipulation is wafer thin.
Perhaps if you had listened for one second these things would not keep happening.
Don’t talk to me about “oh they are right wing boohoo” when you literally don’t even support a United ireland
>>22130>gradually more posters, judged good faith by said inspectorate, based on their participation in union discussion, could be added to the inspectorate voting pool no, see you are just basically saying that you will add people to the inspectorate based on whether they do a good job, but in reality the ones who actually do a good job at being inspectors of the mod's actions are also the ones who are going to be kinda annoying because they'll be willing to call you out. So you'll only end up selecting the less controversial people.
The best way to have oversight is at the very least to have all mods action transparent.
>>22142no. you WILL obey the transhumanist in chief.
you WILL concede to the jannies.
this is the soviet society you chose.
>>22170This is correct
>>22173This is how things have become due to caballo and friends inability to see reason, for the purposes of serving their own narcissistic urges and control freak behaviour .
>>22174Caballo is barely even a social Democrat. More like a Liberal Democrat, and if Zul really is leninhat, he’s one of the biggest and best tankies on the board
>>21929>i just wanna grill>I just wanna join a reading group and meet new comrades>I just wanna learn theorywhy is this board making things so complicated?
Special jannies need their special power and special recognition for their gayops
>>22178>zer0 is succdemThis is news to me. Can anyone else corroborate?
I know for a fact that Caballo is the most liberal (centrist) out of all of them and was the biggest danger, I don't agree with your assessment of him being a demsoc, let a lone deserving of being described as a "socialist". He has explicitly argued anti-revolutionary Blairaite shit in the matrix Leftypol Chat and I remember that at least engelsliker was there to witness and argue back against it, if you don't take my word for it (I deleted my matrix since then).
>zul is a covid denialism schizo in charge of the pol friendship societyDamning if true. He always seemed unhinged in the mod policy debates.
>watermelon is a shameless man-infant that will say anything to be given executive powers. I agree. He's been screeching "JUNTAA!1" to every little problem for what I could see the last 6 months+. I think what you said here is an apt description.
>Maybe you don't have an issue ginjeet […]Not ginjeet, just adding my voice to the thread as an anon not 24/7 glued to the matrix drama.
>>22130Sage, while I support your proposal, you absolutely should distance yourself from the Soy Noticer guy, he reeks of either /pol/ spy/wrecker or fed. I don't trust anyone that is up trying to sway Congress policy
all hours of the day, all days of the week, and in the Leftypol Chat can post nothing other than praises about British imperialism and his abnormally extensive pic collection of Mussolini / Fascist Italy while not being mutilated / liberated. The fact that he's been behind the scenes since Space_ is not a point in his favor.
>>22188is any of what I said incorrect at all?
>one seething modrent free, what one of the 3 special and valid pricks that supported this gayop are you?
>>22122>Don't have the time to read this whole thread but here's my thermonuclear take from skimming it: the Caballo Cabal is in the right here and the move to ban people for "repeating state department talking points" is an exact repeat of OldBO's policy and will kill the board.based.
I repeat again:
>>21658 ,
>>21693democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>22153in the absence of a mod answer, i have answered myself.
with a view to the potential negative outcomes i've seen gestured towards.1. people have been saying things we don't like, repeating mainstream media talking points, etc. this is clearly evidence that we're important enough to subvert and not just a mixture of low-effort trolling, baiting for (you)s, sheer contrarianism, and stupidity.
2. it was never banned. (>b-but i was banned for), no, it was never banned. "shut the fuck up degenerate dogfucker" isn't criticism, that guy who wrote several thousand word essays about the fact the furry economy is "reactionary" because it relies on artisan production methods is criticism. going forward, low effort criticism will probably be preferred to high effort criticism because why make the effort of reading "furry marxist" manifestos and identifying them as "almost nationalist" when you can just say dogfucker dogfucker dogfucker d011ars junior.
3. excessively
4. if it becomes a rule, it will inevitably come down to "you were reported for making an argument at odds with the laziest possible 'pro-socialist' reading" as a matter of the basic dynamics of the situation
5. given the greater concern shown for liberal idpol, reactionaries who argue in
bad faith will probably still slip through
6. any answer would take up too many words for too little benefit. for my position: the board shouldn't have a party line beyond a broad adherence to the left.
7. it will be, and even bad criticisms will probably be left alone. there is, perhaps, even the risk that better (not necessarily correct, but better.) pro-immigration arguments may be discouraged because lol radlib
8. don't know
9. avatar users to be discouraged, soyjaks to be given free reign
10. no idea
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>22207This.
Also it would be nice if you all sticky posted every post made by the news anon, left it stickied for 3 days. Give that task to a newbie as a means to prove themselves.
>>22212i hurt his flimsy ego because he thinks having deletion powers on a 4chan clone makes his pathetic life worthwhile.
literal woman
>>22210exactly keep that shit detained in social media.
the last thing we need is parasocial relationships originating from a fucking imageboard.
>>22216what kind of a nonsequitur is that?
so cleaning up my shit for free makes you popular with the opposite sex?
fuckin jannylogic man. my sides
>>22167>it in google so it ok>rping as genjeetthere pedo threads in 8ch /b/ thanks to that dumb logic
>>22169>>22166stfu bait
>>22187nou
he was man who madess videos
u just know because of the inflreds >>22232this, if none you fucker care about avatarfag and not want to defend avatarfag then banned them if it goes board-wide and not just a small thread or let others discouraged it if it's not doxxing
that shit should've stayed in /get/
>>21410you say things like reactionary-friendly, but really what you mean is anti-establishment
what happened to left-wing meaning against totalitarianism? "COVID denial" or "anti-vax' is an effort that pushes back against the attempt to control a populace by fear. Is that in your view 'reactionary?'
If you want to be a liberal government kool-aid drinker there is every other site on the internet to do it. I'm not sure what the point of leftypol is if we can't even voice opposition to a government (or really, ruling class) that wants to squash us all with fear and, potentially, biological warfare.
From my point of view, the liberals are evil.
>>22237>>22238so, a strawman and the name of a bogeyman
not very bright are you libtards?
>>22240why even make a new site if you want to enforce twitter-level narratives here?
just makes no sense
how do you even differ from establishment thought
>>22243thats a fair point
at least it says something, unlike the other subnormals ITT
>>22092For reference I never opposed letting users have a part in the moderation process, or transparency, or anything like that, I only think that allowing Matrix users to straight up vote on mod matters as if they were mods is a bad idea. We should act on behalf of all users not just the most active and vocal ones. Hence the surveys we've been doing.
>>22099We did try to remove a mod who we couldn't work with though. That's why this power grab was attempted, because the minority couldn't bear to see one of their own be removed for his wrecking behaviour.
>>22111I don't love Stalin but I always advocated for all reasonable leftists (ie not nazbols) to be allowed to post here equally.
>>22122Cheers man.
>>22206The 'new junta' are united partly by their admiration for Haz and opposition to controls on topics about him, which was another nail in the coffin of our democracy, when the majority voted to ban Haz discussion because it was toxic to the board, this (I believe) caused the junta-ists to draw inwards to each other further.
>>22233Maybe I could have done more. I don't know.
>>22235As others have pointed out I'm a Demsoc, not that it matters.
>>22236Leftism means protecting the working people, not allowing them to be massacred in order to keep the economy going - as porky originally wanted to do at the start of the pandemic before overwhelming backlash forced them into moderate control measures. Ironically Chinese people who had a much harsher lockdown have been far more free for the past two years, with little to no pandemic controls outside the affected areas.
>>22142When would have been a good time for leaving?
This was just another inevitability in the history of the board. Coma just sled up the process. The contradictions between the mods who want to make this reddit and the mods who want to keep this true to the nature of image boards couldn't go on for ever
>>22250The reason people opposed your idea to ban Haz from the very beginning(this was when he was still making videos on leftypol) was because your reasoning was stupid.
Caballo wanted to ban Haz for Idpol. On account of the use of the word Anglo as a "idpol slur".
>>22246>because it was toxic to the boardWhich is why i think a ban for the shit 4chan meme or removing the penny face was understand even if i kinda disagree with it, it's the same bullshit.
Still glad he's gone, he was /get/ creep who posted penny porn which i don't trust at all and he spam his shit board wide
just banning an over amount of avatarfaging was the best option
>>22251it's best if you don't know
just another breadtuber that a namefag named sage is in love with
>>434283Exactly. I know I've been accused of being pro avatarfag but I would remove anyone's face pic if they asked me to. It's shitty 'content' for one thing. Make fun of their posts instead.
>>22253I did not immediately jump to banning Haz immediately, it took some time for me to come around to that, but I think it was obvious fairly quickly that he was an insecure, unstable, schizo that was going to harm the left more than ever help it. Now if he was just another content creator, fine, but he was clearly developing a colony that was harming the board. He practically exudes 'cult of personality' energy. And yes, I do think he's an idpoller, a bad one. But since we bring him up, I also removed Haz's dox on many occasions.
>>22253>Caballo wanted to ban Haz for Idpol. based
>On account of the use of the word Anglo as a "idpol slur".not based, although it's now becoming that thanks to haz far as i know
i miss anti anglo meme
>>22258porn of a cartoon child in a children show
There is aged up gumball porn out there but most gumball fans and porn are /ss/ and lolishit
I don't trust them like how i don't trust loud house fans in /co/
>>22261no I mean are you afraid it was made with trafficked peanut mooses or what
this is basically the one instance in which you can be totally sure what you are getting
>>22262>this is basically the one instance in which you can be totally sure what you are gettingYeah,
no trust and i don't want him anywhere near here. not
no guessing Unique IPs: 1