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File: 1626907333109-0.jpeg (9.98 KB, 276x183, images.jpeg)

File: 1626907333109-1.mp4 (34.4 MB, 1920x1080, lol.mp4)

 

Previous thread ( >>210868 ) hit bump limit.

We scientific (STEM) socialism here.

READING
http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
For a complete reading list, see: https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2020/05/01/two-reading-lists/

Cockshott's Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/williamCockshott/

Cockshott's youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVBfIU1_zO-P_R9keEGdDHQ

Cockshott's Blogs
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/
http://paulcockshott.co.uk/

Cockshott's videos torrent archive
Here's the torrent with all of Paul Cockshott's YouTube channel videos up to 27/10/2020 (i.e. Eliminating inequality):
Magnet link:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d5e5cc7a91228fef2ea213f816b27cfea8185961&dn=Paul%5FCockshott%5F%28October%5F27th%5F2020%29&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.me%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.internetwarriors.net%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.cyberia.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fexplodie.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fp4p.arenabg.ch%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker1.itzmx.com%3A8080%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker3.itzmx.com%3A6961%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.zerobytes.xyz%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.tiny-vps.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ds.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.stealth.si%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.si%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3A451%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fretracker.lanta-net.ru%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fopen.acgnxtracker.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.moeking.me%3A6969%2Fannounce
Torrent file:
https://anonymousfiles.io/RileL0Sn/

This thread is for the discussion of cybersocialism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and of course the great immortal scientist himself, WILLIAM PAUL COCKSHOTT.

Archives of previous thread
1) https://archive.is/uNCEY
2) https://web.archive.org/web/20201218152831/https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/997358.html
3) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1092975361

You can make webm related real by contacting Ck on his Facebook or YT channel.
562 posts and 99 image replies omitted.

>>485060
>I find it hard to believe that a science unable to predict its own economic crises is really so rigorous and advanced
I mean yeah. bourgeois political economy exists to prop up the current state of affairs, not to actually understand, critique and surpass it
some neoclassical/Keynesian thought has shades of cybernetics, like how the economy can be steered with taxes. but they're still hampered by the need to defend porky
>Also, how many of you guys in here are non-STEM?
I'm a huge STEM lord. not sure about the others
also Victor Magariño is a treasure

>>485060
alot of those guys and the ones on places like /r/neoliberal are really posturing pseuds who pretend they understand Marx or Economics when they don't.

y'know i've been wondering about something, in an capitalist market economy, where the account of price is supply and demand, if i where to want something to be free, and where to reduce demand and increase production to raise production untill supply is high enough, what would happen ?.

>>485062
>/r/neoliberal
I had to go and have another look at that place and found this: https://i.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/qr5ruf/the_world_is_fed_up_with_chinas_belligerence/
>Now China just picks fights out of arrogance and bullying
>[Xi's] policy shift doesn’t seem calculated in the way I envision world leaders calculating
>The future was China's for the taking, but I guess Xi wanted to seize the whole world himself
>When China lashed out with trade attacks over Australia said we should investigate COVID origins it became very clear that appeasement was going to become expensive
it's afraid

>>485063
this question fits better in a separate thread I think. but I'll bite
>if i where to want something to be free
every single thing useful to humans requires labour anon. nothing is free
>what would happen ?
you'd go out of business

>>485064
when i mean free i mean a product, let's say for the conversation it's toilet paper.
let's also say i'm bezos rich so money is not a problem
so, it is possible, through messing with supply and demand to make TP free ?.

>>485065
I'm confused why you would want to continue making anything that was in such abundance as to be literally worthless.

>>485066
worthless to make money, but it's function still stands, as for the reason, while walking home i tought about a situation where the supply/demand of a market would result in the need to change to a planned economy just because someone cheated it enough to subsitise social programs.

>>485065
people like Bezos aren't communists, for obvious reasons. I don't even understand what you want said with this. you can buy and give TP to people if you want. but the value of TP will always be non-zero, it will always take some amount of labour to make it
in a socialist economy we could decide to make machines that are even better at making TP than what we have now, lowering the value of TP to far below where it would be profitable. or better yet install bidets in every home so TP becomes unnecessary

>>485067
I feel like by the time you made that much toilet paper it would be basically useless just because there wouldn't be a good place to store it all

>>485069
how about you store it up your butt!

Can Cockshott not simulate an economy like a video game would?

File: 1636687264674.pdf (120.56 KB, 232x300, brewster vs cockshott 2.pdf)

>>484951
>>484948
Cockshott's response

>>485071
wdym? we could use model economies and apply planning to them. that's a thing Starcraft bots do

>>484948
yeah, I read this years ago and Brewster comes across as incredibly lazy in his response. Not a surprise given that this was the early 90s and the fukuyamaist end of history. So there was zero urgency to his critique

>>485073
Yes but more in-depth and related to the real world. Seems like it would be number one priority.

>>485075
for sure. but a huge problem is getting a hold of the actual data. and also people willing to give this stuff a try

>>484707
Idk maybe. Can any anon in here try something like that and upload it to youtube?

>>484707
yes but it would have to use a custom server plugin

>>485073
starcraft economy is very simple compared to real life economies. There are only 3 inputs and no intermediate goods.

>>485079
of course. there's oodles of other games. Workers & Resources comes to mind
Starcraft is interesting because it is adversarial. you have to do continuous planning. planning investments (building construction) requires integer variables. this makes optimal Starcraft planning NP

>>484948
<Assume, as do C&C, an economy which generates 10⁶ distinguishable goods and services. A Leontief input/output matrix for such an economy would then need solutions for 10⁶ x 10⁶ x 10⁶ = 10¹⁸ equations to eliminate the variables assuming everything to be an input for everything else.
>letting one's mathlet-ness be on full display like this
embarassing tbh. for those who don't notice, it's 10⁶ equations, not 10¹⁸, the system is actually sparse, and we don't need to form an explicit inverse to find a solution. plus it is very parallelizeable

File: 1636859795653.png (764.74 KB, 1080x2340, Screenshot_20211113-221321.png)

Paul retweeted this.

>>485082
b a s e d
a
s
e
d

>>485082
is this just boomerism or is paul secretly a meme slinging teen at heart

>>485084
my pet theory is that paul secretly posts in here

Even if we do in fact have the physical technology to implement planning as described here, we don't have the social technology, people don't trust each other enough for direct democracy.

>>485086
i call bullshit on this
people trust each other just fine, so much so that the bourgoisie and their lackies actively expend effort sowing distrust amongst people
take that away for even a moment and you see solidarity

File: 1636861173729.png (764.74 KB, 1080x2340, Screenshot_20211113-221321.png)

>>485084
Honestly he might be this isn't the first time he's done this

>>485087
>people trust each other just fine
The people immediately around them sure, but in a huge polarized country there's always some outgroup that's to be feared and resented

>>485088

is that the fucking walmart logo?

>>485090
Yes, my man is People's Republic of Walmart pilled

>>485089
who do you think picks and chooses each outgroup?
and when those who decide lose their grip on power, who do you think ends up more often than not becoming the outgroup?

Warning:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cockshott#Political_views
>Cockshott advocates for a system of a moneyless economy based on computerized central planning and direct democracy called neosocialism*.[2**]
* Leads to this article on the fascist ideology of "neosocialism" from the 1930s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosocialism
** Leads to the following source with no such usage of "neosocialism": http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/index.html

>>485093
I recommend to just replace "neosocialism" with "cybernetic communism", with or without hyperlink, sourcing his recent usage of 'cybernetic communism' in the last decade(s) rather than "cybernetic socialism" (in the 90s).

>>485093
there's a copyright notice on the talk page. do we have a photo of paul with known copyright status?

>>485093
the only time I remember them naming their ideology was something like "post-Soviet socialism"

>>485093
The edit was made by a Wikipedia user Comradeka, who uses imageboard lingo and they/them pronouns on the personal user page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Cockshott&diff=prev&oldid=1046646704
Definitely a troll edit. That user also edits other articles with left-wing relevance, but does not appear particularly trollish in that. Probably has an axe to grind because of Cockshott's gender views.

>>485093
It goes deeper there is a subsection on "neosocialism" for the wiki page on TANS

>>485098
The change was recently done by SnowFire, who appears neither a wingnut nor troll. In the revision history, the user comments: "move passage from Neosocialism here". The user who added Cockshott to the Neosocialism article was WiCoraLee. That was the only contribution WiCoraLee ever made.

>>485093
its sad, but i have not the willpower to fight the corrupt mountain of administrative shit that is wikipedia

>>485099
>That was the only contribution WiCoraLee ever made
Glowie confirmed

Thanks whoever made the edit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH6ur0X4wMI

NEW VIDEO
<The UK mixed economy before and after
>An account of 150 years of UK economy.
>Source data from two publications and research done in the 1970s by me, Allin Cottrell and Greg Michaelson
>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247788259_Testing_Marx_Some_new_results_from_UK_data
and
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8RH-5TFBDTATTBHbXI1enFUdlU/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-vBCJBPilG1EF1YjuznL18Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH6ur0X4wMI

NEW BLOG POST
>Interview with After the Oligarchy
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2021/11/16/interview-with-after-the-oligarchy/

>>485105
Also released as video
https://youtu.be/6XuXNWGe0Eo

>>485106
yeah I listened to it in the car
I think paul should have made clear that planning starts with the base, with the most basic goods. services is something you can bring in later. it's also almost impossible to answer a lot of those questions without actually having cybersocialism in place. he does address some presuppositions however, like a lot of what is now done by the petty bourgeoisie should become effectively salaried work

>>485106
on the question of people lying to the system, this is something I expect would quickly be made illegal. there are also statistical methods to detect it, possibly even if there's only a single firm in a field, like the rocket example. but there I expect there's heavy involvement from the democratic body. in any heavy capital investment you want oversight

seems this thread has reached the bump limit. should I start a new one? if so I'll steal the OP from this one, with minor changes

>>485107
Distinguishing between "services" and "le base tangible commodities" is completely irrational and arbitrary.


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