No.493107[View All]
UKRAINE THREAD 3.0The last one got to 600 posts.
Original post:
Is there a proxy conflict coming?
US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
To check for news:
https://liveuamap.com/esTo check for (military) planes:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ 602 posts and 129 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. No.493710
>>493705Then you’re wrong and actual european communists see it as the incubator for future fascism
No.493711
And I understand that 3rd worlders including Russians feel threatened by Europe but war and chaos will end up killing you too if it turns nuclear.
No.493712
>>708755
>which of course is not a ground for annexation.
No, it is not, but that annexation is also not credible grounds for US intervention other than sanctions.
>your kleptocratic leader knows that the only way he can hold power is by keeping population (idiots like you) in perpetual state of worry about external enemy. and little wars like in 2008 and 2014 is just enough to keep you enslaved. now we have another escalation because he intends to keep raping you until he dies and you will all swallow it.
I'm not Russian, anon. I'm just sayin that the Russian government (if they're smart) do not plan to annex Ukraine, as they could never hold it, and they especially could not hold it when given that NATO and the US have ostensibly shown support for Ukraine. What I do not want to see, and I'm sure you'll agree, is a war in Ukraine, because civilians will die in large numbers. This is not a low-intensity conflict like the one that happened in Georgia and South Ossetia. This time it will be a very large war if it happens.
No.493714
>>493710I disagree with them as every single piece of information indicates that actual fascists want to dismantle EU.
No.493717
>>493705>I want to believe it can move towards socialism without American influenceI want to wake up tomorrow in world communism and with the best boner of my life, but that doesn't make it plausible, does it
No.493718
>>708779
>mutt batalion fan and US cuck shed defender starts posting anticommunist memes after people did not defend their poor neonazi shithole.
like pottery.
No.493719
>>493710Many communists see the EU as a necessary evil to put the breaks on US imperialism
No.493720
>>493693You're right, it's not, but the US also has more combat experience, better logistics, and a better integration of the services on the level which cannot be matched by Russia alone. If the US intends only to defend Ukraine, it's going to win, and it's going to win hard.
No.493721
>>493714Hardly, there's tons of pro EU fascists, fascists like Oswald Mosley supported pan European organisations and it has its roots in the nazi New Order project.
EU is a bourgeois parasitic regime that talks about defending Europe the exact same way nazis did and do.
No.493723
>>493719Every communist party in Europe supported Brexit and communists were and always have been the largest opposition to the EU from the 70s onward.
No.493724
>>493709Yeah, the very slow and flashy "we're totally gonna invade guys" does look more like an attempt to look threatening and force negotiations than actually wanting war
I mean, I know this kind of stuff takes time even when it's real, but it's suspicious
No.493725
>>493719>EU as a necessary evil to put the breaks on US imperialismDoesn't look like it's doing a very good job
No.493726
>>493704So Russia is the aggressor because of Putin?
>>493707All the news sites I read seem to imply it. What do you read? I don't want to read biased stuff.
So if NATO is the aggressor here, one should advocate for anti NATO aggression, without wanting Ukraine to be annexed by Russia. But where does that leave Ukraine? Why do they want to be with NATO anyways?
No.493727
NO WAR BUT THE CLASS WAR
No.493728
>>493697>They can have their simulation however they want. They are poor fighters on the ground. They only ever win due to total air superiority and they haven't been in a conflict where they didn't have it.Yes, and this won't be any different. This is like saying that an individual is only good at fighting because he has a gun and has never been in a conflict where he didn't have it. The US picks how it wants to fight. Also, I disagree on your characterization of the US as being poor fighters on the ground. The initial operations in Afghanistan lacked air support for the most part and yet they accomplished their mission. Any urban war, the like which is expected in Ukraine will not involve air assets knocking down buildings left and right so as to not damage infrastructure or local civilians. The US has fought wars like that too and won every time.
>Korea maybe and Vietnam shot down quite a few of their planes.Yes, they did, but those were more even matches than what you would see today.
No.493729
bros, i'm really worried. usually these habbenings just fizzle out after a week or two. but reading all the updates of embassies closing down, people relocating, worrying about their families in europe. when will this fizzle out?
No.493730
>>493720>the US also has more combat experienceYeah, I guess losing every war since ww2 counts as "experience"
No.493731
>>493729Its part of Russian PsyOp to keep Western public in state of fear and anxiety. They seem to rethink this whole invasion as Russian army is quite weak compared to NATO.
No.493732
>>493726>So Russia is the aggressor because of Putin?No. Russia is becoming threatening because of him, but it is not yet the aggressor in this particular case because they have stayed within their borders. If they invade Ukraine, then this would be an act of aggression, and the US should determine whether it is or is not beneficial to defend Ukraine. The US and the rest of the European Community think that it would be a very bad thing to allow one nation to invade and annex territory of another nation the way it was done in the 20th century. Part of the global capitalist project is an assurance of peace so as to allow easy flow of capital. The invasion of Ukraine would badly disrupt that assurance.
No.493733
>>493730Last I checked the government put in place in Iraq was still standing. Kuwait was defended from Iraqi aggression, and North Korea was pushed back from the south of the peninsula. Vietnam stood for a while after leaving it and so on. Combat-wise, the US is very good. The main problem, and this is something you can look at for modern history is that the US military is not designed for building things. It's designed for destroying them. You cannot invade a country and try to change the minds of the people on the ground. It's the wrong tool for the job. The main reason the US loses wars is because it picks wars that cannot be won in the first place. The solution should be diplomacy, but that is what the US fails at the most. The Americans are poor diplomats, and this is a failure much bigger than any military one.
No.493734
>>493729The closing of embassies is an overreaction to show that the US thinks the Russians are going to invade. Also, some people actually went from the US to Ukraine in that same trip from the same state dept. This is a switcheroo. The Russians now have a choice: Say nothing, and let the US write the narrative, or de-escalate. This is a political move and nothing more. However, if this fails, I think we will have a war.
No.493735
>>708831
And I understand what your perspective may be. It may even be downright criminal, but from a US perspective, that tiny strip of land, which is a valuable asset for the Russians was not worth risking another international conflict, especially when the war in Afghanistan and the war on ISIS was ongoing. Now it's a much bigger deal because President Biden has something to prove after his failure in Afghanistan. Neither he nor Putin can afford to back down, which is why this is a credible path to war. I think we are both hoping that this does not happen, though.
No.493736
>>493732>aggressor in this particular case because they have stayed within their borders.Explain Crimea and Donbass.
>inb4 hurr durr no russian military there No.493737
>>493728Russians actually have A.a.
No.493738
>>493729I don't think it's going to. The US has no physical means of stopping Russia, is refusing to acquiesce to any of Russia's demands, and since the EU doesn't have the military to stop then either, so Russia forcing the issue is the only possible outcome. The Biden admin's strat atm is just stalling for time, but the talks aren't going anywhere in part because they're trapped by five years of anti-Russian fear mongering and their ineptitude exacerbating the pandemic and sending Biden's approval rating down the tubes, making them in desperate need of a "win."
At this point the only way for this to "fizzle out" would be for the US to cave the or for Russia to decide that Ukraine becoming part of NATO is fine, and neither of those is likely to happen.
No.493739
>>708831
lmao
No.493740
>>493738But Russian troops invading anywhere where there isn't a clear pro-russian majority (Western Ukraine, Baltics) will still end up in disaster as there will be firece nationalist resistance getting endless supplies of weapons from the west. Russia doesn't wanna do something as stupid. They have the east and crimea. That is it.
No.493741
>>493735>has something to prove after his failure in Afghanistan"""""failure"""""
No.493742
Why was my post deleted?
No.493743
>>493736>Explain Crimea and Donbass.Crime and Donbass are separate incidents where I will agree that Russia was the aggressor. What I don't agree is that at the time the US saw intervention as warranted.
>>493737Yes, so does the US. It may be a contested air war at first, but the US can afford to lose many more aircraft than the Russians, and has enough armor to punch through and take out AA batteries if it has to. AA isn't an impenetrable shield.
No.493744
>>493702It doesn't matter what pundits are saying, it is all just posturing. If Russia invades and Biden doesn't do anything, then they will switch sides and attack Biden for not defending European allies.
No.493745
>>493733>IraqRemoved a puppet dictator and the country immediately descended into civil war, spawning ISIS and getting the US kicked out of the country
>KuwaitHad to put together a coalition to defeat the dictator that didn't fight back because they were fucking bankrolling him to begin with
>North KoreaDidn't defeat NK and technically still unresolved to this very fucking day
>Vietnamlmao you have to be fucking kidding. It was a shit show every step of the way that failed to stop NV operations and ultimately resulted in NV victory after SV fucking collapsed almost immediately
They couldn't even win in Afghanistan after 20 fucking years and 8 trillion dollars spent
lol they were able to beat Greneda though. USM ftw!!
No.493747
>>493738>US to cave the or for Russia to decide that Ukraine becoming part of NATO is fine, Never going to happen. NATO is seeking Finnish and Swedish memberships quite strongly because of this situation and NATO open border policy would be threatened by this. Ukraine could separately make a deal about NATO with Russia but both parties have extremely low trust for each other so any agreement is difficult to obtain.
No.493748
>>493745>Removed a puppet dictator and the country immediately descended into civil war, spawning ISIS and getting the US kicked out of the countryThe goal was to remove Saddam and establish a government. That was done, and the martial prowess of the US stands. They didn't lose the conflict militarily.
>Had to put together a coalition to defeat the dictator that didn't fight back because they were fucking bankrolling him to begin withCome on, anon. You don't believe that. There was fighting, even after the ceasefire. The fact is that the US is far more competent at destroying things than you think. It's just that it also thinks that it's the answer to every question.
>Didn't defeat NK and technically still unresolved to this very fucking dayThe original plan was to push them back to the 38th parallel. McArthur violated his orders and wanted to push into China, but the original goal of the operation was met.
>lmao you have to be fucking kidding. It was a shit show every step of the way that failed to stop NV operations and ultimately resulted in NV victory after SV fucking collapsed almost immediatelyTwo years is not almost-immediately, and it also collapsed because we stopped funding them, not because the NVA or the VC had much military success in direct conflict with US forces.
>They couldn't even win in Afghanistan after 20 fucking years and 8 trillion dollars spentAt the time of the US withdrawal, major military operations had already ceased. The people taking charge in day-to-day operations were the ANA, who were successful at their jobs just as long as the US kept supplying logistics. That was what fucked them. Of course, Biden knew this was the case. Just look at the helicopters we gave them, replacing their Hind models. The only ones that could work on them were US contractors, and we withdrew those. Afghanistan almost looks like sabotage. However, do you think Taliban forces had any military success in direct conflict with US troops? The answer is no.
No.493749
>>493740Which is why Russia isn't planning on invading Ukraine. Ukraine is big and poor and Russia has no interest in having it. The whole "Russia's going to invade" is burgerstan propaganda. The most likely thing is Russia making long distance strikes on NATO material and installations I'm Eastern Europe.
No.493751
>>493748>Germany was never defeated in battle in WWI you guyz! War isn’t just about le army’s ability to fight
No.493752
>>493749>The most likely thing is Russia making long distance strikes on NATO material and installations I'm Eastern Europe.I agreed with your post until I read this. Its full retard to think that Russia would attack a stronger enemy.
No.493753
>>493747Ukraine making an independent deal with Russia also isn't gonna happen because Kiev has been in the US's pocket since the 2014 coup.
No.493754
>>493749Okay, time for Rumor mill again:
The current model of how a Russian invasion of Ukraine would go is for a pro-Russian group to stage a coup of the Ukrainian government, giving Russia justification to partake in "peacekeeping operations IOT prevent conflict spilling over the border into Russia." This would then put the US on the spot as it could be seen as the aggresssor if it then decided to cross the border into Ukraine at the same time. Timing is key, and so is defense of the Ukrainian government. For this reason, one can reasonably expect that "civilian" "advisors" are operating in Ukraine at this time. If on the other hand, a coup fails, the Ukrainian government would have all the justification it needs to host US troops inside its borders and then Russia would have to take the initiative in starting this war. It's all about timing and control.
>>493750I do not think the US plans to invade Russia, at least I would hope not, but we have done much dumber things.
No.493755
>>493753If invasion happens Ukrainians are forced by gunpoint to sign agreements they cant refuse.
No.493757
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No.493758
>>493751>War isn’t just about le army’s ability to fightBut Germany was defeated in WWI. It lost the ability to maintain combat readiness and conduct combat operations. That's as defeated as you get other than the other side literally in your capital. But you are correct, war isn't just about your ability to fight. However we were discussing that ability at the moment. You cannot on one hand claim that the US has poor soldiers while also admitting that the US sucks at war for reasons other than its combat ability.
No.493759
>>493740They want more influence on the internal Ukraine politics, but that is it, yup.
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