UKRAINE THREAD 3.0The last one got to 600 posts.
Original post:
Is there a proxy conflict coming?
US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
To check for news:
https://liveuamap.com/esTo check for (military) planes:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ >>493112Based
Literally just the western MSM trying to find a way to force america into another war. It’s all larp
>>493114Take it for what they're worth, but some of the American glowies who are going on CIA think-tank podcasts and talking about this are suggesting that the Russians are doing it this way to maintain a kind of tactical or operational surprise, knowing that there's no chance of maintaining *strategic* surprise in the modern era given that other countries like the U.S. can see everything they're doing (with satellites). To put it in plainspeak, the Russians know that everyone knows they're coming, but no one knows when exactly it will come. That also means, if Ukrainians panic and mobilize their forces, the Russians could use that as a casus belli.
So, the Russians build up their forces gradually over a long period of time until they have enough troops near the border to invade, and then it only takes them a few days to actually launch an invasion from their forward positions, along with surging the last stuff that would be the clearest tip-off that they're up to something (logistics, along with aircraft which can be more easily flown to nearby air bases).
But, as you pointed out, the longer the Russians keep their dudes standing around, the more it costs them, which also degrades their fighting capacity the longer they're there. So that's why these glowies think an invasion – if it happens – is going to happen sooner rather than later. They also seem to think that not doing it would be bad for the Russians as well, because doing all of this only to send the troops back home – after they've been presumably gearing up for in invasion – would demoralize their own men; like a giant case of blue balls.
>>493116eh, this is mostly equipment in place and not actual soldiers
all the numbers about "muh 150,000" troops are if you include the entire southern military district and what not
Plus, another Blinken-Lavrov meeting took place the US is set to have another one this week with more firm possibilities on a security agreement.
This whole thing is 90% theatre, especially for the US in terms of distracting from a dismal domestic policy and outlook
>>493118It's not 1914. Russia is a comprador state, built on selling out to NATO capitalists, not a world empire rival.
>>493119Many Russian communists see it the same way I do. They regard Putin as a Vlasovite running an occupation government that sells off Russian resources and Soviet era industry to foreign capital.
>>493111>The day when I and Leninhat are actually in agreementThese are dark times
Dark times indeed
Godspeed o7
>>493121Realistically I don’t think the US will start WWIII over this
If nothing else they literally cannot win in really any circumstance and Europe won’t fall on their sword for Burgerstan, if America pushes this far enough NATO might finally unravel as Germany decides they need gas for the winter above all else and the French decide they prefer being alive, every other NATO country is a joke and even counting Germany and France and the UK leaves America as the only military that can actually challenge Russia
NATO doesn’t need Ukraine to exist and fighting for Ukraine is an existential threat, ultimately I do not think WWIII will occur here
>>493140I hope this is sarcasm
The last thing any wage worker wants is NATO having another excuse to sell off workers to corporate billionaires in charge of the arms industry.
>>493151They would risk Ukrainians fighting a war, trained and armed by Americans, and who would lose. The US would not risk an actual war fought directly with Russia. They have said they will impose harsh sanctions, which will only aid the movement away from the US and the dollar
>>493149Germany wants the Russian gas pipeline no matter what, and Germany going against US could be the beginning of Euro states siding with Russia or China over US, or at least playing both sides, instead of broad American domination.
>>493133kek
>>493131I don't think the *Leninist* can even be called like that.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/01/19/beware-hawkish-pundits-pushing-war-over-ukraineLibtard friendly link detailing how Ukraine is full of Nazis
https://johnmenadue.com/ukraine-good-russia-bad-its-not-as-simple-as-reputable-us-media-claim/For conservatards use this link it's the same article with a headline more amenable to them criticising mainstream media
The attitude of the publication don't be their cup of tea, but it'll tickle their ego that you sent them a link to an article on a serious serious obscure policy journal
>>493165That does make this weird. But aside from the question of whether they are going to invade this time… both Georgia and Crimea had a limited window of opportunity to get in, so they did. Ukraine was in turmoil as Yanukovych had just fallen, and there were still active uprisings happening in Crimea and Donbass. In Ossetia, on the other hand, they had been reinforcing their local troops since April, so that's several months before the beginning of hostilities in August, but in the end they acted with the justification / pretext that Georgia endangered the peacekeeping mission in Ossetia and shelled Ossetian civilians, and they needed to respond immediately.
Meanwhile in the ongoing case, there is no urgency, nothing is pressing Russia into acting right away, even if the long delay is seemingly giving Ukraine time to prepare, it has no means of doing so in a meaningful way. That is, Russia is confident Ukraine is on its own. Otherwise we can now expect Putin to back down now like a coward, which doesn't sound like Putin.
>>493171https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_PolandGermany had 66 divisions when entering Poland, it is far more than 100k solders.
Just saying..
>>493146I'd have to cope if something happened, which is clearly not the case.
Stop projecting though it's bad for yourself.
>>493184Well
if they're occupation authorities Russia moving troops into donbass
isn't an invasionMaybe it's a climb down save face move
>>493130There is a small problem with that line of
>NATO doesn't need Ukraine exist They do, the whole point is to have NATO expand onto the Russian borders. To place Missiles close by and eventually invade Russia. The US is in a state of Crisis and the only way to keep the debt flowing is to have constant wars, by having these constant wars you can keep people occupied. Its a sick way of doing it but remember the Cold War Never ended it just shifted focus. It might not be WWIII yet but it will come close and we will just see how Nuclear Annihilation suits everyone.
NATO members will order more fleets and fighter planes into Eastern Europe amid a worsening standoff with Russia, with the bloc citing reports that Moscow is building up troops on its side of the Ukrainian border.
In a statement issued on Monday, the US-led military faction’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that he welcomed the commitment of “additional forces to NATO,” vowing that he will “continue to take all necessary measures to protect and defend all Allies, including by reinforcing the eastern part of the” bloc.
According to his comments, a handful of member states have made announcements that they will step up their current or upcoming deployments, including Denmark, which is sending a frigate to the Baltic Sea and four fighter jets to Lithuania “in support of NATO’s long-standing air-policing mission in the region.”
Spain and France are focusing on southeastern Europe, with Madrid reportedly contemplating dispatching ships to “join NATO naval forces and is considering sending fighter jets to Bulgaria.” Meanwhile, Paris “has expressed its readiness to send troops to Romania under NATO command.”
At the same time, Washington “has also made clear that it is considering increasing its military presence in the eastern part of the Alliance,” the statement said.
https://www.rt.com/russia/546945-nato-dispatching-warships-ukraine/>>493195Ok.
With the US, I kinda understand why they're overplaying this, they are a great power and doesn't really believe what they're saying.
But the UK?
I mean, the UK kingdom feels schizophrenic when it comes to Russia, like it is quite literally coping so fucking hard for russian troops being in russian soil, not invading anything, and they're saying this retarded shit constantly, like a dog barking at a stranger.
>NOOOO YOU WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH I'M SURE IT'S GOING TO BE CHECHNYA BUT LIKE A 1000 TIMES WORSE DON'T YOU DARE PUT TROOPS MENACINGLY>NOOOO >>493203they will blame the russians while obv. the nazis are in ukraine
like, can you imagine Putin ordering his troops to detect and execute Jewish ppl? ofc not
>>493194Ok this is the first thing of some substance.
Calling the Union State treaty between Russia and Belarus a Russian occupation is a clearcut escalation, at least from a diplomatic standpoint.
>>493213Bruh
How the turn tables
>>493131true that
Also compare our resident 'Leninists' (read retards and fags) to Russsel Bentley
<The time of the "Unipolar World" is over. In fact, it has been for some years now, and all that remains is for Russia to administer the coup de grace to the fascist zombies who still imagine themselves as the masters of this now bygone era. When Russia finishes this undeclared but ongoing military war in Ukraine and Eastern Europe, the economic war will begin in deadly earnest, and may in the end prove to be as destructive as a third world war. If Russia can save the world from fascism, just as it did in the last century, the world will again owe Russia a debt that can never be repaid. But let's hope the debt will not so easily be forgotten this time, and the gratitude, respect and support of every decent human being on the planet will be forthcoming. Good luck to all good people in the hard days ahead. May God protect the innocent, and may the rest of us get everything we deserve. Davai. https://www.greanvillepost.com/2022/01/14/expect-escalation-of-conflict-in-donbass-and-ukraine-soon-says-donbass-journalist/This is basically the last dying gasp for the degenerate USA. They either let history pass and the American empire falls within a decade or they ratchet one last gamble
World war 1 was almost entirely instigated by UK and world war 2 was egged on and instigated by UK again and both times they were able to stop the rise of Germany
USA could start a world war and feasibly win it ( i doubt it) and put off rise of Russia and China for another 30 years
Americans are psycho and antihuman enough to do it
I expect Ukro-Nazis to escalate the war, Russia to finally end the franken-state of Ukraine and teach nazis some humanity to then spiral to an economic war where the dollar will quickly go to Zimbabwean levels of inflation.
Without Burgers ability to consoom using an inflated dollar predicated on imperialism the retards will be cheering for a world war
>>493225>Lol, you are clowning dog. If there's an 'economic war' the USA and allies will win easily, Russia is nowhere near able to compete with NATO. They will get mildly fucked by sanctions like last time and then the west will eventually give up and return to normalLmao now you're clowing
If there's an economic war serious enough to hurt Russia, Russia can just switch off gas supplies to Europe and watch everyone freeze in their beds in February
Gas prices have already risen %500 in places like UK and Germany
Secondly, the only economic effects the West can do against Russia is disconnect them from swift like neocons advocate
Except the German bourgeois came out and said taking Russia off swift is off the table
https://www-handelsblatt-com.translate.goog/politik/international/ukraine-krise-swift-sanktionen-vom-tisch-eu-und-usa-ruecken-vom-ausschluss-russlands-aus-globalem-finanzsystem-ab/27982580.html?ticket=ST-152922-fJ9fffUeArFgDSd9nRcL-ap6&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=wappAnd russia has made itself sanction proof since 2014 by buying up huge gold reserves and foreign currencies
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2022/01/21/how-russia-spent-years-sanctions-proofing-itself-from-the-west.htmlThe West is cucked in the confrontation and the Ruskies know it
>>493230>dedollarization has been cancelledNOOOO WTFFF
Multipolarity bros I don't feel so good
>>493231Russia for a win doesn't need to "take over Ukraine"
They just want a neutral country as their neighbour. Russia would be happy with Nato out the country and a federalised Ukraine where the russian speaking parts have equal power
If Russia cuts ukraine down the western side to Moldova they clear our Nato out of Ukraine and Moldova in one coup de grace
>USA do not believe that it's existential for the United States.Afghanistan was just the start. When empires can't expand they unravel
>>493231Recent converts from the West to Russia/Belarus includes such significant personalities as Gérard Depardieu, Steven Smeagol, and Edward Snowden.
What comparable forces does the West have, defecting from Russia?
That's right, you have NONE. Already we see Hollywood and French cinema turn against the degenerate West, and prominent politicians as Snowden dunking on America.
Marxism-Leninism-Putinism is the way. Embrace MLP.
>>493235>Russia won't do this because they can't afford to, their economy would be permafucked if Europe stopped buying their gas. This is why this whole situation is a nothingburger.Russia would only cut gas supplies if something like SWIFT disconnection happened
The German bourgeois have already ruled that out so the West has no economic leverage over Russia. Russia switched it's economy to China
And the raft of sanctions in 2014 meant that the Russians had to invest in their own local agriculture… Which made them the largest wheat exporter in the world
https://www.worldstopexports.com/wheat-exports-country/Russia brought this ultimatum cos they know they can cuck Nato. What's more this has all been coordinated down to the letter with China and Xi
They know China has their back
And Russia (and China) are doing it at a time where they both have hypersonic missiles whilst the fags in USA can't even launch one
>>493243I mean that's a happooning in my book. WW3 is obviously not possible here
>>493244The West slowly digs its own grave with sanctions
>>493249no u
>>493248Yeah I feel that if Russia was gonna invade they wouldn't have waited for a bunch of USA/Euro deployments, maybe their plan was just to waste the west's money and effort, I don't know.
>>493245>The 'missile gap' is meaningless, nuclear war will obliterate all sides regardlessHypersonics returned MAD though.
Prior to that the USA thought their missiles shields would catch must nukes
Hypersonics returned MAD as nothing can stop a hypersonic
What's more hypersonics can be launched from the back of trucks anywhere. Which means all that fancy naval equipment like USAs 11 aircraft carriers are now nothing more than floating coffings to Russia, China and DPRK (who also now have hypersonics)
So even in a conventional war hpersonics would be used - just not necessarily nuclear tipped)
>>493252Nuclear weapons aren’t that useful in war if they were NATO would be spamming them endlessly
There just used as a scare tactic, now ordinary bombing strikes those get deadly quick if you remember what the USA did to Cambodia and North Korea
>>493256Same
Every time NATO says something will happen the opposite occurs. NATO can only ever solve a problem they themselves caused in the first place, a good example was western media screaming endlessly about Ethiopia balkanizing due to the tdf but that just never happened regardless of endless sanctions and coup attempts
>>493255In 2018 Putin unveiled hypersonic capability in a huge press conference stating the rules have changed
So the Russians think it's a game changer and given their escalation in Ukraine I'm inclined to take Russian view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOxhsrQH7Yw >>493259Log off. Nothing is happening. Literally nothing
ever happens.
>>493261Fair enough
Fukuyamachads, you win
>>493265But what if there IS a major habbening and I miss it?
Also I live in a country neighboring Ukraine, very close to the border too, so if anything happens it definitely does affect me
>>493267Have a TV, radio or news stream on in the background son, if there's a happening that's big enough to affect you it'll be breaking news
When that happens jump back on leftypol but in the meantime you may as well just leave this thread updating in the background and get on with your study lad
>>493269Yeah i know but the Russian market has a degree of security which makes it kinda separate from Us ones.
>>493270The very existence of Russian stock market means there's a good deal of people that do give a shit about it, and include it in their decision making.
>MOSCOW, January 24. /TASS/. The risk of the Ukrainian Armed Forces staging provocations in Donbass is now higher than before, Russian Presidential Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Monday, when asked what was the Kremlin’s view of the risk of a Ukrainian offensive and provocations against the self-proclaimed Donbass republics.
>"The risk is there, it is very high. It is higher than before," the Kremlin spokesman pointed out.
>At the same time, Peskov declined to answer the question when, according to the Kremlin, Ukraine might launch an offensive operation in Donbass. "Let’s not behave like our vis-a-vis and engage in what looks like hysterical actions," the Russian presidential spokesman said, hinting to Western allegations about Russia’s possible invasion of Ukraine.
So according to Kreml, Ukraine is preparing an invasion of Donbass and probably Russia itself with the support of NATO.
>>493268>Is this what you Russian commies actually believe? We already have laser weapons in space for the USA. We can desintegrate your shitty Sonic weapons on an atomic level at a press of a button the very moment you launch your nukes and they blow up while still in your country, causing a bigger catastrophy than chernobyl times ten.What some 4cuck retard thinks
Meanwhile
<“Right now, we’re helpless,” Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.), a senior member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in advocating for more investment in hypersonics, along with missile defense.<But in congressional testimony last week, Hyten conceded U.S. missile defense cannot stop hypersonics. He said that the U.S. is instead relying on nuclear deterrence, or the threat of a retaliatory U.S. strike, as its defense against such missiles.https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380364-china-russia-eclipse-us-in-hypersonic-missiles-prompting-fearsYou are a helpless and defenceless faggot lol
>>493279Pretty sure he was joking lol
"Russian commies" is a dead giveaway
>>493287Nah man
We’re pussies the us army isn’t built to go to war with countries that can actually defend themselves much less Russia. We wouldn’t nuke them
>>493289There would be no need for conventional forces in this type of war as most of your enemies populations would have died.
>>493290False flag operation are made for this reason.
>>493294>Theres no way the U.S can enter into a major war with how divided and weaken it is from the pandemic.Yes, you're correct.
But do the elites (and the CIA) know this?
What makes you think they haven't deluded themselves?
<Bloomberg has publicized utter jaw-dropping fake news recently, claiming that Xi Jinping had asked Putin not to attack Ukraine during the Olympic Games," she noted. "Frankly speaking, I did not expect this level of disinformation from Bloomberg not because it is an unconfirmed fact but because it is sheer impossibility and unbelievable stupidity. I could have expected it from some US newspaper but not from Bloomberg. They used to be less susceptible to these types of propped-up leaks, but now they seem to have given up on that," Zakharova stated.https://tass.com/politics/1392335<On Monday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry refuted a Bloomberg report which claimed that the Chinese leader had allegedly "asked Russian President Vladimir Putin not to invade Ukraine during the Beijing 2022 Winter Olympic Games." <"The report was purely made out of thin air. It seeks not only to smear and drive a wedge in China-Russia relations, but also to deliberately disrupt and undermine the Beijing Winter Olympics. Such a despicable trick cannot fool the international community," Zhao Lijian, spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said at a routine press conference. <The Chinese Embassy in Russia also refuted the report, saying in a statement sent to Russian news agency TASS on Saturday that the news "is a hoax and provocation." The embassy noted that China's position on the Ukrainian issue is consistent and clear.https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202201/1246802.shtml >>493311>Occupied donbass.Either way tbh.
Also quite curious how they started to change saying the republics of donbass into "russian occupied territory"
What's next? "Russian Occupied Goverment"?
>>493316That hasn't happened.
There's been countless war tensions, it's the bourgeoisie trying to scare us
>>493325Probably
alot of prostitutes iin germany are also czech
>>493335I believe it was a very casual comment made by a government guy on tv. When asked if they were going to do it, he said its not off the table. It wasn't really an announcement by the goverment to international bodies. If the shit that's spouted on CNN and Fox News were propagandized in this manner, the US would "declare" horrible shit every day of the week.
Could have been another instance though, the article linked is about another thing.
>>493321There probably won't be significant anti-war protests because American media has successfully convinced most that Russia a dangerous bad guy and only the US can stop their evil. There would probably be less resistance than to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'm also not sure if I agree with people who are saying conservatives would pivot to anti-war to own the libs. Yes, blind contrarianism is a part of their grift, but war is one thing both parties tend to consistently agree on.
>>493343if you want to beat the americans just cut them off from their supply lines
mutts can't survive a week without new ammo since they can't aim
>>493352>but for some reason NATO just didn't create any infrastructure therethey would be retarded if they did so.
NATO in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania is encircled by Russian and Belarusian forces all they can do against Russia is waging delay battles.
>>493360strawman
>>493361Lol is that true
>>493363Yes.
t. Former Canadian soldier
(Google translate:)
In Ukraine, the scenario of Georgia in 2008 is repeated to the smallest detailThere are all signs that the West is preparing to use Ukraine to attack the Donbass, following the example of Georgia's aggression against South Ossetia in 2008.
This was announced on the air of the Russia 1 TV channel by the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry Maria Zakharova, the correspondent of PolitNavigator reports.
“We do not rule out further large-scale information manipulations and provocations. We do not rule out the conduct, including military provocations. Moreover, Bloomberg revealed the plans, the material was submitted with a link to the Olympic Games. They fired past, possibly hit themselves. Because everyone remembered the year 2008, also the Olympics, also the Olympics in China, only in summer. Who, then, committed a provocation, aggression, who attacked whom? Let me remind you that it was Saakashvili’s aggression, I don’t even want to tell Tbilisi, because it was not the people of Georgia who did it, it was performed by Saakashvili, who attacked South Ossetia,” Zakharova said.
She also recalled the chronology of events in the summer of 2008.
“What happened a month before this aggression that unfolded at the entrance of the Beijing Olympics? US Secretary of State visit, then it was Condoleezza Rice, Tbilisi. A press conference with Saakashvili, during which they spoke about the advantages of NATO, about the plans that the United States has for Georgia in this direction, a lot was said. Exactly one month has passed since then. This visit took place in the period from 9 to 10 July 2008, when the aggression happened, you remember very well, in fact, in the first days of the Olympics. That's all, here's the classic story of the preparation of multi-level provocations, ”concluded the representative of the Foreign Ministry.
https://www.politnavigator.net/na-ukraine-do-melochejj-povtoryaetsya-scenarijj-gruzii-2008-goda.html>>493387>JUST START AND SUPPORT INTER-IMPERIALIST WAR BRO!!1!!!!! IT'S DIFFERENT THIS TIME.Even if Ukraine joined NATO how does that physically 'hurt' or 'bully' the Russian state and its people?
Ukraine is not like Taiwan-China where its basically a cold civil war.
Ukraine IS de-jure and de-Facto its own country.
Russia has fucking nukes.
>>493390Because Russia would be an idiot to tolerate an international organization created in the first place to attack its interest and sovereignty to get an inch closer to its border.
Are you seriously this fucking dumb or just an eternal idealist? I don't know which country you are from, let's say Denmark, and imagine if the main world power created the Anti-Denmark Alliance (ADA) that starts spying on you, sabotaging you, works for destroying Danish sovereignty, sows distrust in your government through constant propaganda, swears to use its nukes against you first, your government then collapses, getting reassurance from the ADA that since you now stopped your bad Danish ways, they won't go after you any more if you comply, and you do comply, but turns out complying with ADA means that they freely loot your country's resources, economy, killing a hundred thousand out of your 5 million Danish compatriots, so you realize that their "peace offer" is actually just continued war in disguise, so you kick them the fuck out and re-install a more authoritarian system to protect your sovereignty, and 20 something years later a neighboring country joins ADA showing signs that it will comply with the same murderous agenda.
That's why.
>>493387So to get this straight
Ukraine is property of Russia?
>>493399He was implying NATO or Ukraine is the bully, Putinboy
But honestly, do you really, truly believe, in your heart of hearts, that Ukraine would ever actually attempt to invade Russia of all countries?
>>493400>Putinboyt. Libtard
>But honestly, do you really, truly believe, in your heart of hearts, that Ukraine would ever actually attempt to invade Russia of all countries?They can't, instead, they get anschlussed.
>>493404>Putin 'won't stop' with Ukrainebased
>U.S. considering controlling exports to Russia if there is an invasion of Ukraineliterally your loss
>Pentagon Puts 8,500 Troops on 'High Alert' Amid Ukraine Tensionsas expected
>Anxiety in Ukrainemaybe next time don't let nazis & NATO puppets in power
>Why is Ukraine coming up so much in American politics?gee, idk
>Putin Shores Up Cuba, Venezuela Tiesbased
>U.S. puts troops on alert and NATO sends ships, fighter jets to Eastern Europe as Russia continues buildup on Ukraine borderas was expected
>Biden to meet with European allies about Ukraine as US considers sending troops to regionas was expected
why are burger sources so basic shit? Like, "hey guys, did you know Ukraine exists" is news for you?
>>493410You’re the one that directly referenced Nazi Germany’s annexation of Czechoslovakia in reference to Russia potentially invading Ukraine while also saying you’re in favor of such an action
The first and only person to directly reference the Nazis was you in fact, which actually says a lot about
you >>493408>Realistically is there a single country on the planet that would simply allow state secession?I don't care. Next time don't let nazis into power and don't take away minority rights from your population if you don't want them leaving your country in an area where that "minority" is like 90%+ of the population.
>>493410he's a fed, not even kidding
>>493409>So you’re pro annexation of Czechoslovakia by Nazi Germany?are you fucking retarded
Imagine accusing a commie of hypothetically supporting a fashoid regime invade a neutral country. This case is the reverse of it.
>>707701
>The people who run them don’t want to do their job.
It's not that they don't want to do their job it's more like their public job description and their actual job description don't match. My highschool for example got an influx of forcefully relocated lumpens. THe people there who wanted to take a chance for a better life for their sons and daughters were the minority. Most piled up trash, stripped the appartments down to the copper and left, illegally rented it to actually desperate people and so on.
Whether it was carjacking, stealing, drug dealing organized crime… most of the parents had no interest in keeping their young at school, the only reason they did so was because of the government paying them a weekly bribe to do it. When they realized the school would falsify attendance to keep up the facade of "integration" they took many of them to "learn the trade" with their family. The point was to give them everything free, bribe them with over the top welfare and hopefully they'd keep quiet, still criminals, but not make any PR problems for the municipality about that whole bulldozing shantytowns business.
In that sense, the director and higher ups of the highschool were on the same tune. Their positions benefit from political favor and so their job is to minimize the trouble for the city hall. The higher administrative posts are just bureaucratic leeches, figures of authority whose job is to to be the political liaison to the institution but have no actual job to do but be bossman/woman. So it didn't matter if the relocated students beat people up, mugged them at knifepoint or otherwise flaunted all social and institutional norms, within the highschool grounds. The highschool would never involve the police or write them up.The new students would rack up literal hundreds of "writeups" that were nonetheless never processed further, when less than a dozen would start risking temp expulsion. Because doing so would leave a paper trail of trouble about the relocatees, if nothing else because the parents would stop have receiving their anti truancy welfare temporarily.
>>493424Yes yes, CIA whatever
Surely Russian communists are proud supporters of the Russian government and are hoping it will fight a war with NATO, this isn’t largely a desire of bloodthirsty westerners who feel bored with their lives
>>493428>Le CIA is anyone that isn’t a proud supporter of the Russian Federation and the United Russia PartyPathetic
>>493431I am actually quite close minded to the idea of a continental European war
>>493426>Surely Russian communists are proud supporters of the Russian government and are hoping it will fight a war with NATOThat's a very good thing if true. And? It makes you cry a lot? That's bonus points for them.
>>493420he's joking
>>493418based
>>493437>Boringyou can fuck off from this thread anytime, but you keep coming back shitting it up
CURIOUS
>>493439right, right, previously it was
>fucking commies want to spread revolution>we need to undermine them, take their resources, and crush their sovereigntyand now it's
>these fucking Russians don't want to spread revolution anymore>we need to undermine them, take their resources, and crush their sovereigntyThis makes a HUGE difference when determining which side you should support.
>>493442Really a stretch though isn't it. WW3 is not going to habboon
>>493439The main point is that if a security treaty was agreed on back then as the Soviets wanted and as the Westerners didn't want, Ukraine wouldn't be at risk of becoming part of the Mongolian Khanate 2.0 today
>>493449>dropped flagcope and seethe
because the invasion will be a step towards
union restoration >>493449Last post
But never forget “porky on porky violence” is never capitalists actually fighting each other
It’s actually “prole on prole violence in the name of porkies”
Anyway, “communists” have fun shilling for the deaths of working class people at the behest of capitalists because said capitalists rule a government occupying the same geographic landmass that Soviet Russia did, cheers, chauvinists
>>493451>Last postthis faggot will be back tomorrow
they always are
>>493451>Last postGood riddance, pseud.
>Anyway, “communists” have fun shilling for the deaths of working class people at the behest of capitalists because said capitalists rule a government occupying the same geographic landmass that Soviet Russia did, cheers, chauvinistsexcept that we're not like such, faggot
fuck back to reddit, amerilard
for the invasion is a prelude to the
restoration of the Union >>493406Because they are not interested in actually spreading their style of government, convincing others, etc. they just want your stuff and will conquer you to get it and install a comprador bourgeoisie.
The Wealthy West Club is full, and the rest of the world is not invited.
>>493408They've been trying to invade the Donbass for years and were stopped both times by Russian mobilisation
Zeldnsky has referred to East Ukrainians as "species" and said anyone that feels Russian should go to Russia
Ukro-nazis are currently putting signs up on Russian speaking people's businesses saying they don't respect Ukraine and 'real' Ukrainians shouldn't buy stuff from there and harassing them
The current state of Ukraine is run by ethno nationalists and needs to be wiped out
Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.
No real reason for NATO to actually not accept, you would literally have world domination, aside from China.
This is because of a very simple reason, NATO wants to balkanize Russia. The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.
Russia is the major country that will get a benefit from climate change, it's a country with a lot of natural resources because it literally owns about 1/8 of the planet or so.
It's the literal counterpart of the US, and the US wants it destroyes so it can truly be the world dominator without having no one to actually stand to them. Also Russia has lotsa nukes.
Not saying tho that Russia is an anti-imperialist nation, it is a capitalist nation and capitalism itself enables imperialism, it's a feature, not a dlc. But the thing is that NATO is searching for Russia is to be completely destroyed and balkanized in 5 states or more.
Also the Rimland theory is more important (at least that'd what NATO officials believe) than what you think.
So in thic conflict I support Russia for these reasons.
>Russia is actively defending itself against an outside invader that wants to mutilate it out of paranoia.
>Ukraine isn't worth a damn supporting, they have incorporated in their army neo-nazi paramilitaries.
>Ukraine is also a shithole that would be better under russian control… Probably (not that hard of a test tbh, being better than a comprador regime for NATO isn't that hard).
>More power to Russia means less power to the US, which will make it more aggressive. Supporting Russia is literally accelerationism to ww3, but accelerationism nonetheless, and no, I don't want ww3, I don't like to happen, but one thing is to not like war and the other is to delude oneself into believing that it will not happen, it will happen because it's the natural course of capitalism. This is more asking for a swift death than a prolonged, painful suffering under late stage capitalism.
>Seriously, fuck the Ukrainian goverment.
>In fact, fuck ALL nato states, including mine.
Despite this, I recognize that:
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialist because imperialism is the capitalist drive for profit natural course of action, read imperialism, the last stage of capitalism. Every capitalist country will become either imperialist, or imperialized, and Russia clearly isn't being imperialized as, say, Togo is.
>Russia is ruled by a capitalist class, the same class that killed the Soviet Union and thus killed AES.
>The russian state is actively smearing the soviet union, by example making the gulag archipelago a required reading in schools, meanwhile putting into a shrine a fake version of Stalin, deluding themselves into thinking he was a fascistic strong dictator instead of the antithesis of fascism which is why russian rightwingers love to say that they liked Stalin but hate Lenin, despite the former being literally a disciple and rightful succesor to Lenin's theories and politics.
Also btw this also applies to China.
>>49346495% of the territory ? are they crazy ? do they even think NATO is going to siege down the entire country or something ?
Also Ukraine would get diddly squat in that scenario.
>>493476I know.
That just make it funnier! He could have said the afghan war, but I suppose saying that would make the US look bad because they also lost that one.
>>493458We can distinguish between the national bourgeoisie and the comprador bourgeoisie. The national bourgeoisie develops the productive forces of a country, employs scientists and specialists to have technology developed, builds infrastructure to aid production, and tries to export its surplus products to other countries. The comprador bourgeoisie on the other hand act in a country on behalf of another country's national bourgeoisie, classically in a colonized setting, and for the purpose of resource extraction from the colonized country to the colonizing country, so they don't actually develop productive forces beyond what is necessary to steal shit, and typically are involved in mercantile/trade businesses, and when they build infrastructure it's only for the purpose of streamlining resource extraction out of a country. A typical example is Latin America, where to this day roadmaps can be quite insane because they were built for example from mines in the heartland to the nearest port so they could be shipped, and not for connecting cities like in a normal country, which extracts its own resources just to have it turned into end products in different cities. After neoliberalism and offshoring the character of both changed. The comprador bourgeoisie are basically overseers of production in third world / capitalist periphery countries, where they lobby (and bribe) for worse working conditions on behalf of the capitalist core country's national bourgeoisie, ensuring that relatively high paying jobs (research and development, administration, etc.) can stay in the core, while actual immeserated production remains in the third world. A good example is ex-socialist bloc countries, where they intentionally destroyed the factories, but kept the mines (etc.) and the required infrastructure to extract resources, so that their markets could be prepared to buy international businesses' products and can't produce on their own, while keeping the resource extraction going. It's basically reselling your own "stuff" to you for the profit of another country's bourgeois.
>>493466KPRF are full of people that supported Gorbachev in the 80s and are UR controlled opposition anyway.
The stance of socialists since WW1 has always been to say 'No.' to inter-imperialist wars between capitalist empires.
>>493482Cope
What about ww2? Or the Russian civil war?
Or any war of liberation for the right of self determination?
If you think a literal Nazi State that had its government overthrown in 2014 by USA and is attempting to create an ethno state in a State that has a lot of ethnic Russians is an "inter imperialist war" you're either
-cia
-trot (same as above)
-or a long haired peacenik faggot that thinks socialism is just about "being nice"
Kprf are correct on this
>>493488>What about ww2?The various communist parties associated with the USSR globally didn't support the war until 1941 when the USSR was attacked.
>Or the Russian civil war? Revolutionary war of socialists on one side and Liberal republicans + reactionary's on the other side.
>Or any war of liberation for the right of self determination? Anti-Imperialist struggle as defined by Lenin.
What is going on in Ukraine is clearly none of the above, With the USA and Russian-Fed simply wishing the state to be part of their respective economic exploitation bloc(s)
>>493489Actually no.
The petrodollar is literally the reason why the US isn't on weirmar's germany levels of inflation.
By forcing everyone to trade oil with dollars, it makes it so you can print and print and print dollars without it being devalued to zimbabwean hell, because every country needs dollars in order to buy oil.
In fact, this is the reason why Iraq was so rapidly invaded, because they started trading oil for euros instead of dollars.
The US has always been on the brink of complete economic collapse because of this. Thanks to the petrodollar, they can fund all their shit and their military, cause they can always print more money, and because everyone needs it, it will never "devalue" like crazy.
They literally just can print more money, and that's the foundation of the US. Literally what a five year old would suggest.
>>493490>Russian-Fed simply wishing the state to be part of their respective economic exploitation bloc(s)Cope.
Russia's taking active measures in the region and you call that wanting to exploit? I understand your mindset, but this can't be applied to all countries who invade someting for some reason. You think China invading Taiwan is because that they have massive oil reserves? No!
>>493179i'm gonna kill myself if this happens,
i can't take it anymore
2022
>>493140>There should be a warSays the same spoiled urbanite philosopher scum
Nobody said revolution will be peaceful, But where are the ukrainian communists in this all?
Are they the one leading some fight? No.
This is two porkies fighting, It's not good for any, Sure, The spoils may inspire some new communists but try not to get a hard-on for the civilians that are going to be lost for that to happen
>>493490No, Crimea is a warm-water port, and Russia was pursuing one, since 🅱️eter the Great, you idiot.
>"Russia is imperialist!" crowd knows jack-shit about geopolitics, history or strategic interestsReally puts the cortex in a vortex.
>>493492I can clearly explain why China-Taiwan is nowhere near as similar as Russia-Ukraine.
China views Taiwan as an actual province of China to be governed same as any other as part of its state. And that Taiwan will be equally subject to development as every other part of China, Taiwanese citizens will be granted Taiwanese citizenship, and no hyperexploitative system will be established.
The Russian relationship to other post-soviet states in the aftermath of the collapse of the USSR clearly is not an attempt to ‘revive the USSR’ or anything else to that effect but is to establish a band of third-world exploited states in Central-Asia and Eastern-Europe it can manipulate economically through organs such as the EEC for the Russian national capitalist class
>>493497>Establishing a warm water port has nothing to do with economics or economic necessity.>Russia is only doing what it does because of Idealist romantic nationalist concepts of greater Rus >>493500Not that Eurekan anon, but personally I'm more of the belief that Russia and the Ukraine can go fuck themselves, and my main concern lies for the independence for the DPR and LPR, because they at least have the
slim possibility of sticking it to the Ukraine and not becoming mere puppets for Russia.
>>493499>>Lenin said imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism>>Russia is a pretty capitalist>>therefore it is imperialistWhere is the flaw in this thinking?
May not be on par with american imperialism
But how do capitalist countries exist and function without doing a little bit of imperialism?
>>493321Rise above it, Jack. These e-celebs have little to no influence on real politics. The only people who take their shit seriously are kids in their late teens or early 20's who'll just move on to simp for another e-celeb in 6 months/ 2 years. They're hardly a threat or a meaningful source of genuine political action. They're just loud mouth pieces with all bark and no bite.
Their pseud-opinions on the matter means as much as the pseud-opinions on this hellscape of a board and have equally as much influence on foreign policy.
>>493499>small capitalist country doesn’t do imperialism because it doesn’t fit into my dumbass American centric vision of it being the great satanNews flash jack. Everyone under capitalism does some level of imperialism these days. Even tiny ass end proxies like Australia and Indonesia do imperialism on their own for the sole purpose of national interests. It’s a systemic problem.
Hell even what you dumb western mf call aes does imperialism to an extent due to the simple fact that it creates more profits. The US being hyper-imperialistic is like the big gangster controlling other bastards.
>>493505>They're just loud mouth pieces with all bark and no bite. I mean this applies to regular news anchors too, no?
Do they have influence
>>493504List imperialism committed by Central and South American countries. Go.
>>493506Is this CIA? Pretending to be a third-worldist or whatever, horribly butchering Marxist theory, shilling against the current target of NATO aggression and then going "Noooo, it is
you who doesn't understand imperialism"?
>>493507Again, influence on WHO? Considering the fact that a good chunk of the American people don't trust mainstream media or journos for that matter. The problem isn't entirely the medium itself, but rather that your average consumer hasn't developed critical thinking skills to know any better and turn to an alternative.
https://opentheword.org/2021/01/02/poll-americans-dont-trust-mainstream-media/>>493508I take it you haven't seen what Australia's doing in East Timor?
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/since-when-did-it-become-a-crime-to-report-a-crime-bernard-collaery-exposes-the-timor-sea-betrayal/https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/australias-shameful-history-mistreating-east-timor >>493476>even with heavy losses they got the land they askedYeah, nah. Finns overexaggerated Soviet losses tenfold, and then the West collectively decided that Finnish war propaganda is more trustworthy than Soviet numbers, and then anticommunists came in power in USSR and decided that Finnish war propaganda is more trustworthy than Soviet numbers.
Pray tell me how finns could have killed that many Soviets with no antitank weaponry, with half the army fighting in civilian clothes with civilian firearms, with no artillery, with nothing but static bunkers, which were based off Maginot line and with Finnish army instructed by French and British instructors who showed to the whole world their complete incompetence barely a year later? Hell, Poland also had French and British instructors helping their armies out, and French and British weaponry. The only fucking nations who learned no lessons in WW1, lol
>>493513>Yeah, nah. Finns overexaggerated Soviet losses tenfold, Nope. Our records are quite accurate for WW2 situation but Soviet records are a mystery because 200 000 soldiers "missing".
>with no antitank weaponry,Molotov cocktail and other explosives. Tanks don't really work that well in dense forest.
>with half the army fighting in civilian clothes with civilian firearms, Not true.
>with no artillery,If anything Finnish artillery was a huge success story because leadership was extremely competent.
>>708066>>493515>200 000 soldiers "missing"Where do you get those 200k soldiers "missing"? That's fucking right, Western reporting.
>Molotov cocktail and other explosives. Tanks don't really work that well in dense forest. Gee, all Germans had to do in WW2 against tanks was to throw Molotovs, apparently. Huh, and the Germans went to the trouble of pointing an AA gun at them instead - Germans are totally subhuman compared to godly finns who can destroy tanks with Molotovs, lololol
>Not true. True-true, it's according to both official Finnish stats and to Mannerheim's memoirs. He phrased it like a heroic defence/sacrifice kind of thing, though.
>If anything Finnish artillery was a huge success story because leadership was extremely competent.If anything, Soviets steamrolled Finland faster than they planned, due to utter incompetence of Finnish command. Stalin planned to win that war in a year, instead it took only a winter, and ended in COMPLETE ENCIRCLEMENT OF THE FINNISH ARMY AND SOVIET TANKS ON A FREE HIGHWAY TO HELSINKI. That's the level of competence of the Finnish army we are talking about.
>>493509Why?
I'm asking you a question
I didn't make any statements, I don't know if they south american central countries have done imperialism
Are you saying they have not?
>>493510Influence on policywonks, people who are can make a difference
Do you think in liberal democracies, the people being influenced by media can achieve anything meaningful? Like stopping a war
I don't particularly think so, The vietnam war didn't stop because of them, they might have been 1% in the list of reasons to stop but they never were a major cause
Same with Iraq war and what not
>>493510>>493511Wow, you were right
Never heard of timor before
Seems all capitalist countries are doing some form of foreign exploitation
>>493517>Wikipediahttps://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/molot1940.htmHave a read. Again, Soviets were planning to fight that war for a year at best, instead they steamrolled Finland, which was a nice surprise for them. Finns, being the sore losers that they are, started spreading propaganda that they were super heroic and had 10 to 1 K/D ratio. Same as with Germans. Funny how despite gazillion losses, Soviets never conscripted kids into the army, but Germans and Finns? Oh boy.
>>493518Go read my link. That's Molotov's report to the Supreme Soviet. Wikipedia is pure unadulterated propaganda.
>>493521>Finns, being the sore losers that they are,How ironic.
>Soviets never conscripted kids into the army, but Germans and Finns? Oh boy. Yes we had 4 entire divisions consisting from children that Soviets steamrolled. It was really sad.
>>493523>How ironic.What's ironic about being destroyed so thoroughly that in the "continuation war" Finns refused to advance at all without German divisions? USSR destroyed Finland's offensive capabilities in the Winter War. Gee, I wonder, how much damage to country of what, 3 million people, with 10% of population getting consripted, and losing 60k out of that 300k figure, would do to Finnish morale and the ability to do any military moves.
And don't fucking forget how Finnish ARMY, not some auxillaries, ARMY, was using looted Soviet weaponry. Because, you know, it turns out that Molotov cocktails of Winter War actually didn't work and were a pure propaganda.
>Yes we had 4 entire divisions consisting from children that Soviets steamrolled. It was really sad.Soviets didn't have 18 yos as officers, but both Finland and Germany had. Because of the lack of manpower. Because USSR was fairly fucking efficient in destroying enemy manpower.
>>493525>>493524It's meant to say that Finns were good, actually, and held their ground against both sides. You know, how Italy, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary all did when Soviets/Allies entered their countries. Utter nonsense.
>>493527>Finns reached their natural borders and fortified their positionsWhat a bunch of Finnish cope. Finns were bled dry by Winter War, that's why they had no will to fight on. When Soviet focused their attention to Finland, Soviets steamrolled, YET AGAIN, Finnish "natural borders" and forced Finland to betray Germany. Just like they did with other small countries in Europe, by the way.
"Better negotiation position" has still resulted in Finland not getting fucking anything out of that war except dead Finns, with Finland banned from joining any alliances to this day, and with USSR having a free reign of Finnish territorial waters. Gee, what a victory that was for you.
>LeningradDidn't you fucking know that Soviets have constructed sturdy supply lines to feed Leningrad in 1941-42? Finland, just like Germany, planned to genocide Leningrad, but they failed utterly at that, with German tank divisions getting slaughtered, and then defenders of Leningrad repelling any and all attacks afterwards. Germany failed at EVERY objective they had in WW2, that's the reality of the war. Out of initial plan Barbarossa NOTHING was achieved. Archangelsk-Astrakhan line (and that implied Finland pushing to Archangelsk, by the way) was NEVER achieved.
>>708116>This is really funny when you think that Soviets failedWhere's fail, you retard? Finns have constructed a Maginot line like French and wanted to stall until British and French came and relieved them. Stalin planned for a year-long campaign, instead it was all over in 3 months, with British getting straight up excluded from the peace talks because FINLAND WAS FUCKING DESPERATE FOR A PEACE BECAUSE IT'S WHOLE ARMY WAS ENCIRCLED. Finland got blitzkrieged, and everything to the contrary is a Finnish cope unsupported by the factual evidence - both Britain and France planning to send 100k large armies to Finland to help, and not getting to do that because Finland surrendered faster than those troops arrived.
>>493530>What a bunch of Finnish cope. Finns were bled dry by Winter War, But this is not true. 50 000 deaths was an acceptable cost for not being conquered.
> When Soviet focused their attention to Finland, Soviets steamrolled, Also this is not true. Soviet tried this steamrolling with 1,5 million men but our positions held because masterful use of artillery that killed tens of thousands of them while their divisions were grouping for offensive.
>Where's fail, you retard? Finns have constructed a Maginot line like French and wanted to stall until British and French came and relieved them. This is wrong on so many levels. Having fortification of bunkers doesnt mean its the fucking impenetrable maginot line meant to hold entire Red Army for months. Finland did seek foreign help during winter war but no plans were made on this idea that the French army would help us from the other side of Europe. We were not allies the British nor the French.
>>493531Not big anymore but we have traditions as a close friend and neighbor of Soviet Union.
>>493530Kek, at least from all the happonings this has emerged.
Good posts anon lmao
>The soviets in the end managed/forced the reactionary goverments to betray GermanyYup, just like Romania and partially Hungary. Oh, how many lives were wasted for some fucking germaboos.
>>493530<bu-bu-but Soviets were stalled in a first month of war! Unsuccessful offensive that didn't break through Mannerheim line!Soviets DENIED Finland a field to maneuver in the first month of war, taking the flatlands near Leningrad and forcing the Finns to group their armies IN FORESTS AND SWAMPS BEHIND THEIR BUNKER LINE. Meanwhile, Soviets could bring in tanks and artillery and set up them however they wanted and in whatever formation they wanted, because, you know, FLATLANDS WITH NO OBSTACLES. When Soviets brought everything they needed in a couple of months, they broke through the bunker line with ARTILLERY FIRE, with INFANTRY BREAKING THROUGH, and then tanks FOLLOWING THROUGH AND POURING BEHIND THE FINNISH LINES. Then Soviets hounded Finns till some city and COMPLETELY ENCIRCLED ENTIRE FINNISH ARMY. When the peace talks happened, SOVIETS GAVE AN ORDER TO DESTROY THAT POCKET, which gave a huge fucking sense of urgency to Finnish diplomats, and resulted in Finland losing territory, it's waters and islands, as well as any offensive capability Finland had.
>>493533>50 000 deaths was an acceptable cost for not being conquered.
<The war in Finland has exacted heavy sacrifices both from us and from the Finns. According to estimates of our General Staff, on our side the number killed and those who died of wounds was 48,745, or somewhat less than 49,000 men, and the number wounded 158,863. Attempts are being made on the part of the Finns to minimise their losses, but their casualties were considerably bigger than ours. Our General Staff places the number of Finnish killed at not less than 60,000, without counting those who died of wounds, and the number wounded at not less than 250,000. Thus, considering that the strength of the Finnish army was not less than 600,000 men, one must admit that the Finnish army lost in killed and wounded over one-half its total strength. Such are the facts.
>Soviet tried this steamrolling with 1,5 million menAre you retarded enough to believe that USSR committed half of it's total army to Finnish War? USSR fought Finland with the forces of it's Leningrad Military District alone, you copefuck.
>Having fortification of bunkers doesnt mean its the fucking impenetrable maginot line meant to hold entire Red Army for months. It was meant exactly for that, just like French instructors told Finns. French have built that line, French have trained the Finnish army, and the result was similar to what France has experienced.
>>493534holy shit there was a Finnish Socialist state
I hate the whites
>>493537NOICE
>It is socialist and democratic-socialistwut, it's okay, it's okay
victory and allies are important
>>493542>what happened ?,Fall of Soviet Union and ideological shift.
>cucked out to the libs?Exactly that. They are now just another flavor of social democracy.
>>493547Exactly the same position defeated Wehrmacht generals had, lol. Keep coping
>We say its a defensive victory because Soviets planned to conquer all of Finland.Finland was offered a land exchange, offering land triple the size of what Soviets wanted. Due to Finland being dumb and willing to throw Finns under Soviet artillery fire, Finland has lost everything, was forbidden from joining any alliances, from hosting any other country's military, lost access to the White Sea, lost islands, let USSR roam freely in it's territorial waters, and gained nothing in return. And as a cherry on top, Finland forever became known as a defeated Nazi collaborationist government who even sent out jews for Hitler's whims, as well as creating concetration camps for Russians. And you lost MORE TROOPS THAN SOVIETS! Pure fucking cope.
>>493550holy shit i didn't know that finland attacked soviets before anything
this screencap needs to be uploaded to leftybooru
this is nuts
so how did these fashy state break down into social democrat nordic model of today?
and what exactly can be done today when they ban communist parties again?
did the finns try underground commie parties? violence?
>>493548>and gained nothing in return.Finland was the only Axis country not to be conquered and occupied.
>And you lost MORE TROOPS THAN SOVIETS! Pure fucking cope.You are entertaining. You seem to have lost relatives in the hands of Finns or something.
>>493553>holy shit i didn't know that finland attacked soviets before anythingSoviets faked artillery attack in 1939 and blamed it on Finns. Finland invaded Soviet Union in 1941 when we saw opportunity to get our land back.
>so how did these fashy state break down into social democrat nordic model of today?Communism was legal after WW2 and fascism was outlawed. Social democrat + communist alliance fixed the country and made it a wealthy Nordic welfare state. Now its being dismantled by neoliberals.
>>493558For every such monument in russia you will find 20 in hoholstan
duginbots and putinoids are retarded, but I cannot care less if hohlotards get land backed by russia
>>493490>What is going on in Ukraine is clearly none of the above, With the USA and Russian-Fed simply wishing the state to be part of their respective economic exploitation bloc(s)<Just straight up ignores the socialist nature of the DONETSK PEOPLES REPUBLIC and the Luhansk People's Republic (caps to emphasize the socialist name they deliberately took) <Straight up ignores the fact one side massacred a load of communists/socialists and trade unionists <Straight up ignores that communists are executed in Western Ukraine in the street <Neonazis from all over the globe are flocking to Ukraine for training I know which side I'm on.
You can keep yelling Neither Washington or Moscow as much as you like like a stupid trot
The world's proletariat benefits by Ukrainian state getting smashed
>>493563Is the democratic people's republic of congo socialist?
LNR/DNR are socialist in aesthetics only.
You're really overstating you're case, given that you're still right - literal nazis who want to aspire to be like OUN grandaddy are far far worse than russian revanchism.
>>493547Nice royal "we".
The distinction between the Finnish front of 1941-1944 and the rest of the fascist invasion by their allies in Germany, Romania, Hungary, is a false one. The Soviets considered it part of the Great Patriotic War and the Finnish/Karelian front of the overall conflict.
>>493573I love how that retards picture includes UKip as some sinister Russian plot
Brexit was genuinely popular with the masses
A lot of the Russia haters in UK turned out to be complete fakes
Take Carole Cadwalldr, the Rachel Maddow of UK. She went on a Ted talk and accused Aaron Bank's of being in the Kremlin's pocket
I genuinely believed her at the time thinking Russian money in London is probably doing it
She's now in court after Bank's brought a libel case to her and she just DROPPED THE DEFENCE OF TRUTH
https://pressgazette.co.uk/carole-cadwalladr-drops-truth-defence-in-arron-banks-libel-battle-but-insists-claims-were-in-public-interest/Now where do these hysterical claims against Russia come from, NGOs from the USA
>>493585Honestly, it very well could be. No original thought was posted, just regurgitation from the links.
We should test it to see how it might reply. Perhaps type up some keywords.
>>493590Would not the more appropriate be authoritarian/security state liberal-libertarian.
Ie. Market liberal in economy and culturally libertine/permissive but with a highly repressive security apparatus for anyone with real aspirations to significantly alter the economic system.
Identitarian competition of the rightoid type allowed as long as it is kept larpy, consumeristic and violence restricted to the lumpen and poor.
>>493576Thank the American reich
>>493521wow so the Germans actually lost more? What's up?
>>493586>This too. As theotherthread said,euros are more primed for fascism than anyone on the planet, being basically the golden city for petit bourgeois fat off of imperial plunder and unequal exchange but terrified to death to lose it.NATO is fascism though
Fascism can only have meaning under context of imperialism and the seeking of new markets to expand
It is NATO blitzkriegs and bombs defenceless countries, that deliberately spread radical islam across the globe, that have supported massacres of communists worldwide and support the most reactionary colonial ventures like Israel etc
This doesn't even look at NATO history in how they ratlines Nazis out of Germany and put them to work in cia, or the amount of Nazis in West German government or literal Werhmacht generals entering NATO command structures
>>493554oh shit the neolibs are dismantling it?
porky not even happy with porky lite
they want to go full fucking pig
>>493594Maybe, but just don't see them going full ethnic nationalist. Big porkies has too much money to lose in that.
Some kind of Pinochet 1973-83 but with delapidated social program remainders and fully hyper degenerate porn-drug-violence culture.
>>708216It's hilarious that UKip is on there
Also the portrayal of the National Front in France as this Uber evil party when En Marche (Macrons party) recently accused the National Front of being soft on Islam putting Marine Le Pen in the position of defending Islam
>Gerald Darmanin, Minister of the Interior for the ruling Republique En Marche party, slammed Le Pen as having gone “a little soft” on the issue of Islam in France as the pair debated on Thursday on the France 2 channel.>“You’re not tough enough here,” Darmanin told Le Pen. “If I understand you right, you’re prepared to not even legislate on religion, and you say that Islam is not even a problem” but rather “ideology, the Salafists, the Muslim Brotherhood,” and so on, he argued, suggesting the right-wing candidate had gone soft since the last election.https://www.rt.com/news/515437-lepen-defends-islam-macron-minister/Which is just proof that liberal-fascists like Macrons En Marche party will move to the right of parties that NGO bots describe as far right to retain their iron grip on power.
The democracy liberal-fascists afford is a theatre with nice decorations, curtains, tinsel and the appearance of fair play etc.
Neoliberals will tear that all down and have you staring at a brick wall if they need to stay in power
>>493580This, the peoples republics are disliked by both the Ukrainian junta and the Russian bourgeoisie for their communist presence.
I hope Lugansk is renamed back to Voroshilovgrad.
>>493617It's a stupid hoi4 mod that's all about narrative story telling after nazi ww2 victory.
But the narrative always finds ways to sympathize and humanize the nazis, and meanwhile trys to paint communists as worse.
The mod paints Lysenko as basically being worse the Mengele, which is insane
(I think all the "Lysenko was ackshually right" people are dumb as hell, but the propaganda about 'evil mad scientist' Lysenko have gone too far)
I think it came about that some of the devs were clearly e nazis, and the game necessarily attracts e nazis
Anyway Speer is wholesome 10000000 democracy angel dindu nuffin wrong thanks for the gold based nazi dengism <3 <3 <3 free the slaves but only a little bit hehe X3 generalplan ost all is forgiven :DDD
>>493627It's the russian colour revolution
Based.
>Pov you're a weak, dumb cunt and piece of shit mediocrity that has failed up the US government and you suddenly have to sit in a room and do diplomacy with this guy Croatia to Withdraw Its Forces From NATO in Event of Russia-Ukraine Conflict
https://sputniknews.com/20220125/croatia-to-withdraw-its-forces-from-nato-in-event-of-russia-ukraine-conflict-1092505242.htmlIs Germany a Reliable American Ally? Nein
Berlin goes its own way, prizing cheap gas, car exports to China, and keeping Putin calm.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-reliable-american-ally-nein-weapon-supply-berlin-russia-ukraine-invasion-putin-biden-nord-stream-2-senate-cruz-sanctions-11642969767 German foreign minister: Cutting Russia off from Swift 'not sharpest sword'
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-foreign-minister-cutting-russia-off-swift-not-sharpest-sword-2022-01-21/Western governments drop plans to cut Russia off from SWIFT – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546324-germany-us-swift-sanctions/Political advisers to hold four-way talks on Ukraine in Paris
Political advisers from Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany will hold "Normandy format" talks on eastern Ukraine in Paris on Jan. 25, a source in Russian President Vladimir Putin's administration said on Saturday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/political-advisers-hold-four-way-talks-ukraine-paris-2022-01-22/ >>493637Such a format has been operating since 2016 at the very least.
If anything this just means that there is still some margin for talks between EU states and Russia.
>>493643BREAKING NEWSIslamist attack on Kiev! 100 dead and 500 injured!
Our intelligence says that they were payed by Russia to go through this attack in order to insult on Ukrainian traditions, as they did in 9/11.
Alongside the Quran, they also had a Putin shrine.
We must declare war on Russia so no more islamist attacks are made in Ukranian soil.
>>493644from RT
⚡️KIEV: Gunman OPENS FIRE Near Ukrainian Security Service HQ (Warning: Clip 18+)
Reports have emerged of an unknown man firing a shot over a crowd of people at the HQ of the Ukrainian Security Service in Kiev.
Authorities are investigating the situation but have not confirmed if there were any victims or if anyone else was armed.
>>493652Obviously world war 3 was never in the cards
>>493651Will NATO bend over for US?
>>493664He doesn't extend into impeachable offenses. Trump was guilty of what he was accused of. Republicans just refused to vote to convict. An impartial jury would have convicted Trump, but there is not concrete charge against which you can convict Biden in the same circumstances. I don't like either, just for the record.
>>493665Biden isn't completely politically retarded, so he didn't do anything that you could claim is an impeachable offense. Trump did, twice over.
>>708700>If you think Russia annexing CrimeaDeclared themselves independent with even American owned polling companies putting reuniting with Russia in the 90 percentile
https://www.rt.com/russia/350798-no-regrets--almost-all/> and starting a war in Donbas isn’t a solid reason to be extremely nervous when a dictator is moving hundred thousand troops and all sorts of military equipment right up to your border - nothing will convince you.Russia doesn't even want Ukraine. Russia has been trying to get Ukraine and the West to abide by the Minsk accords (which Ukraine and the West signed)- which means Donbass has some autonomy but is still a part of Ukraine
It is Ukraine that has broken Minsk accords time and time again by shelling Donbass and referring to ethnic Russians as "species"
>>708741Endgame: Russia becomes part of NATO.
>>493683I don't know why you have a problem with this. They train more often and in bigger exercises than any nation in the world. The standards for the individual infantryman are higher than almost any nation and especially for non-western nations. Not really that far-fetched to believe that this is the case. Let's not forget the Armor that would be much more prevalent in a conflict with industrialized nations. The US has arguably the best armored forces in the world, and it can field much more of them much faster than anyone else. I think it's fantasy to think that conventional Russian forces are somehow going to push the US back.
>>493686>Russia doesn't even want Ukraine. Russia has been trying to get Ukraine and the West to abide by the Minsk accords (which Ukraine and the West signed)- which means Donbass has some autonomy but is still a part of Ukraine >the westNo such thing, and the only signatories are Ukraine and the Russians. Germany and France only acted as mediators, and Minsk II failed to stop the fighting anyway, so neither party is currently abiding by those accords.
>It is Ukraine that has broken Minsk accords time and time again by shelling Donbass and referring to ethnic Russians as "species"It is unknown who started the fighting up again. However, these talks never worked and a proper solution is yet to be found. They'll never work because the separatists arguably do not answer to a government (though we all know they do) and the Ukrainians do not want to lose more territory.
>>493689>Is Russia really the aggressor? No.
>I've heard someone say that if Ukraine decides to ally with the West, then they have a sovereign right to do so. In an abstract sense sure, but at the same time Russia has its own security to worry about, and that would be compromised by the further expansion of NATO on their borders. It's just unrealistic to expect them not to react to this the way they have. Their demands for Ukraine to remain neutral are perfectly reasonable.
>>493714Hardly, there's tons of pro EU fascists, fascists like Oswald Mosley supported pan European organisations and it has its roots in the nazi New Order project.
EU is a bourgeois parasitic regime that talks about defending Europe the exact same way nazis did and do.
>>493709Yeah, the very slow and flashy "we're totally gonna invade guys" does look more like an attempt to look threatening and force negotiations than actually wanting war
I mean, I know this kind of stuff takes time even when it's real, but it's suspicious
>>493704So Russia is the aggressor because of Putin?
>>493707All the news sites I read seem to imply it. What do you read? I don't want to read biased stuff.
So if NATO is the aggressor here, one should advocate for anti NATO aggression, without wanting Ukraine to be annexed by Russia. But where does that leave Ukraine? Why do they want to be with NATO anyways?
>>493697>They can have their simulation however they want. They are poor fighters on the ground. They only ever win due to total air superiority and they haven't been in a conflict where they didn't have it.Yes, and this won't be any different. This is like saying that an individual is only good at fighting because he has a gun and has never been in a conflict where he didn't have it. The US picks how it wants to fight. Also, I disagree on your characterization of the US as being poor fighters on the ground. The initial operations in Afghanistan lacked air support for the most part and yet they accomplished their mission. Any urban war, the like which is expected in Ukraine will not involve air assets knocking down buildings left and right so as to not damage infrastructure or local civilians. The US has fought wars like that too and won every time.
>Korea maybe and Vietnam shot down quite a few of their planes.Yes, they did, but those were more even matches than what you would see today.
>>493729I don't think it's going to. The US has no physical means of stopping Russia, is refusing to acquiesce to any of Russia's demands, and since the EU doesn't have the military to stop then either, so Russia forcing the issue is the only possible outcome. The Biden admin's strat atm is just stalling for time, but the talks aren't going anywhere in part because they're trapped by five years of anti-Russian fear mongering and their ineptitude exacerbating the pandemic and sending Biden's approval rating down the tubes, making them in desperate need of a "win."
At this point the only way for this to "fizzle out" would be for the US to cave the or for Russia to decide that Ukraine becoming part of NATO is fine, and neither of those is likely to happen.
>>493736>Explain Crimea and Donbass.Crime and Donbass are separate incidents where I will agree that Russia was the aggressor. What I don't agree is that at the time the US saw intervention as warranted.
>>493737Yes, so does the US. It may be a contested air war at first, but the US can afford to lose many more aircraft than the Russians, and has enough armor to punch through and take out AA batteries if it has to. AA isn't an impenetrable shield.
>>493733>IraqRemoved a puppet dictator and the country immediately descended into civil war, spawning ISIS and getting the US kicked out of the country
>KuwaitHad to put together a coalition to defeat the dictator that didn't fight back because they were fucking bankrolling him to begin with
>North KoreaDidn't defeat NK and technically still unresolved to this very fucking day
>Vietnamlmao you have to be fucking kidding. It was a shit show every step of the way that failed to stop NV operations and ultimately resulted in NV victory after SV fucking collapsed almost immediately
They couldn't even win in Afghanistan after 20 fucking years and 8 trillion dollars spent
lol they were able to beat Greneda though. USM ftw!!
>>493745>Removed a puppet dictator and the country immediately descended into civil war, spawning ISIS and getting the US kicked out of the countryThe goal was to remove Saddam and establish a government. That was done, and the martial prowess of the US stands. They didn't lose the conflict militarily.
>Had to put together a coalition to defeat the dictator that didn't fight back because they were fucking bankrolling him to begin withCome on, anon. You don't believe that. There was fighting, even after the ceasefire. The fact is that the US is far more competent at destroying things than you think. It's just that it also thinks that it's the answer to every question.
>Didn't defeat NK and technically still unresolved to this very fucking dayThe original plan was to push them back to the 38th parallel. McArthur violated his orders and wanted to push into China, but the original goal of the operation was met.
>lmao you have to be fucking kidding. It was a shit show every step of the way that failed to stop NV operations and ultimately resulted in NV victory after SV fucking collapsed almost immediatelyTwo years is not almost-immediately, and it also collapsed because we stopped funding them, not because the NVA or the VC had much military success in direct conflict with US forces.
>They couldn't even win in Afghanistan after 20 fucking years and 8 trillion dollars spentAt the time of the US withdrawal, major military operations had already ceased. The people taking charge in day-to-day operations were the ANA, who were successful at their jobs just as long as the US kept supplying logistics. That was what fucked them. Of course, Biden knew this was the case. Just look at the helicopters we gave them, replacing their Hind models. The only ones that could work on them were US contractors, and we withdrew those. Afghanistan almost looks like sabotage. However, do you think Taliban forces had any military success in direct conflict with US troops? The answer is no.
>>493749Okay, time for Rumor mill again:
The current model of how a Russian invasion of Ukraine would go is for a pro-Russian group to stage a coup of the Ukrainian government, giving Russia justification to partake in "peacekeeping operations IOT prevent conflict spilling over the border into Russia." This would then put the US on the spot as it could be seen as the aggresssor if it then decided to cross the border into Ukraine at the same time. Timing is key, and so is defense of the Ukrainian government. For this reason, one can reasonably expect that "civilian" "advisors" are operating in Ukraine at this time. If on the other hand, a coup fails, the Ukrainian government would have all the justification it needs to host US troops inside its borders and then Russia would have to take the initiative in starting this war. It's all about timing and control.
>>493750I do not think the US plans to invade Russia, at least I would hope not, but we have done much dumber things.
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