[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / edu / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / wiki / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/leftypol_archive/ - leftypol archive

Our own National Museum
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon


File: 1642259766355.jpg (187.29 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault-2.jpg)

 No.493760[View All]

Is there a proxy conflict coming?

US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/

Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/

US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/

Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/

Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/

CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/

Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/

Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/

US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/

US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/

Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
585 posts and 75 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.494346

>>494337
>defending yourself from outside threat means you are an aspiring empire yourself

 No.494347

>>494339
>Since the opinion in storeshittistahni geostrategic circles is that brezenski drawing the Soviets into Afghanistan was a masterstroke that allowed them to take over eastern Europe and the current Washington geostrategic aim is to destabilise and take over Central Asia they are probably trying out the old stratagem of striking east to attack west
too 4D chess2me, fam

 No.494348

>>494346
Every single state justifies the actions it takes beyond its borders as self-defense, do you not yet realize this?
And they are all always correct because empires are in a genuine life and death competition and are all trying to destroy each other
Again and again we circle a drain, you have not given me a reason to support any faction

 No.494349

>>494340
>All bourgeois states are aspirant empires.
That sounds cool on paper, but then you look at the last 50 years of conflicts and its always NATO countries doing the couping and conflicts, like USA, Turkey, Israel, Saudi-Arabia.

And when you look at counter-examples closely, it turns out that they aren't actually counter examples, like Saddam Hussain asking permission from NATO to invade, and getting buttfucked for it.

Reality is NATO has "monopoly" on imperialism, and so far nothing indicates that Russia would want puppet regimes of its own outside its direct vicinity.

>Russian companies own oil fields in Central Asia, they literally are extracting resources from other countries and exploiting their labour force.

If this is the definition you go by under global capitalism almost everyone already is "an imperialist," while in reality the actual and overwhelming benefactors of this are "the West." Kazakhstan is a perfect example with US companies and the IMF privatizing their resources. Interesting that they share the largest border with Russia, yet somehow their wealth flows towards the US, a country which isn't even bordering with them, but according to you it is Russia exploiting them.

Curious, one is almost tempted to say, a peculiarly anglo, way of looking at the world.

 No.494350

>>494340
>>494341
>>494342
ah, yes, the ultra/anglo gang, the force of geostrategic reason

 No.494351

>>494345
HOW? They didn't even share a fucking border, allowing for soviet tanks to defend the claim, while France itself being NATO, plus surrounded by other NATO forces on all sides.

 No.494352

>>494350
>Anglo
Got to love this new acceptable form of idpol on this board

 No.494353

>>494352
>Got to love this new acceptable form of idpol on this board
What about burger?

 No.494354

>>494348
>Every single state justifies the actions it takes beyond its borders as self-defense, do you not yet realize this?
Except some countries have legitimate claims for self defense. I'll break it down for your infantile mind:
>USA "self-defending" itself in Iraq, Afghanistan = bullshit
>Russia stopping NATO encroachment as self-defense = valid

but sure, lies = truth, when it comes to anglo-analysis

every act of military action is EXACTLY like the USA occupying Afghanistan. Nuance doesn't exist, and everyone is imperialist, ESPECIALLY those countries that aren't NATO members.

 No.494355

File: 1642637565910.png (155.71 KB, 1362x644, ClipboardImage.png)

>>494353
Anglo is just short hand for Aus/Can/USA/GB/NZ and to a lesser extent all their beta orbiters like Germany and the rest of NATO.

 No.494356

>>494352
>idpol is when by magical chemistry your personal opinions appear to align with your Empire's interests

 No.494357

>>494354
>i'm defending myself by forcing other countries to adopt a friendly foreign policy to me

 No.494358

>>494355
Is the last 1 a hobbit? I knew those fuckers were shiffty.

 No.494359

>>494357
Yes. Welcome to realpolitik, you stupid shit.

The Russians didn't freely chose NATO encroaching on them. The countries in Russia's vicinity didn't freely chose Russia enforcing its own necessary defense.

INTERESTING how you fail to see the chain of causality, starting from the USA.

 No.494360

>>494349
>That sounds cool on paper, but then you look at the last 50 years of conflicts and its always NATO countries doing the couping
That's because it's only recently that rival capitalist blocs have emerged capable of standing up to NATO. Even if NATO is the primary aggressor (and they are) that doesn't change the fact that the forces which drive it in this direction (endless accumulation, monopolization, etc) are still operative in Russia.
>so far nothing indicates that Russia would want puppet regimes of its own outside its direct vicinity.
Right, and what happens when those puppet regime are tapped put, and they are no longer capable of sustaining acceptable levels of profit accumulation? Do the Russian capitalists just pack things up and go home? Obviously not, they then look further outward, looking for new sources of labour, new markets, new resources to exploit. They look for places where people are more poor, more desperate, less organized, where rates of profit are higher. This is the underlying feature of capitalism which drives imperialism, it is the imperative of accumulation. All capitalists are subject to it, regardless of their nationality.
>If this is the definition you go by under global capitalism almost everyone already is "an imperialist,"
Many countries are. What else do you call it when capitalists exploit the labour and resources of another country, and use military force to sustain a comprador regime and protect their investments from being threatened by the very people they exploit? Is this not what happened in Kazakhstan?
>US companies and the IMF privatizing their resources. Interesting that they share the largest border with Russia, yet somehow their wealth flows towards the US
It flows in both directions, otherwise the Russians wouldn't have bothered intervening to stabilize the Kazakh comprador regime and preserve the status quo. Kazakhstan's foreign and economic policy was characterized by taking all comers and prostitution itself to all exploiters.

 No.494361

>>494354
>USA forcing other countries to adopt a preferential foreign policy is bullshit
>Russia forcing other countries to adopt a preferential foreign policy is bullshit
Seethe more, Putinoid
> Nuance doesn't exist
It clearly doesn’t for you Putinfags, since you think anything other than support for Russia is support for NATO
Keep seething, you will never be a communist

 No.494362

>>494361
>>494361
>>494361
>>494361
>>494361
>>494361
>>494359
>INTERESTING how you fail to see the chain of causality, starting from the USA.

 No.494363

>>494359
It's not 'self defence' to invade the countries that border you because you dislike their choice of allies, that's imperialism

 No.494364

you guys do realize NATO isn't a united entity politics wise, right

 No.494365

>>494359
>Welcome to realpolitik
You mean your cynical defense of one porky or another because you know you aren’t actually a communist deep down inside but rather likely a self-hating westerner?
> INTERESTING how you fail to see the chain of causality, starting from the USA.
>>494362
Don’t care about this stupid chain between the two porky factions nigha, the dumb russian fucks trusted America and destroyed socialism in their own country and dismantled their only justifiable defense against NATO which was the Warsaw Pact, they (being the people who currently run Russia that you worship) embraced capitalism and are now being encircled because of their own betrayal of the socialist experiment, oh well

 No.494366

>>494360
>That's because it's only recently that rival capitalist blocs have emerged capable of standing up to NATO.
So let's get this straight. According to you Russia, whose primary concern is self-defense as of now, is the RIVAL of the USA, whose primary concern is "primary aggression". It seems to me that you are conflating the colonizer/colonized dichotomy with the competing imperialist/imperialist dialectic.

Also, what "other capitalist blocs?" Turkey is part of NATO. If you think China is capitalist you are an idiot.

 No.494367


 No.494368

File: 1642638211461.png (347.81 KB, 766x636, 1638906614217.png)

>they're still going
>in multiple threads
So it's safe to assume shit is about to go down in Ukraine?

 No.494369

>>494364
When push comes to shove (anti-communism), they are. Plus there is internal but non-antagonistic competition WITHIN NATO, like how Turkey is trying to get some spoils of war in Lybia, or Saudis deciding to fuck with Yemen.

As for determining how united they are actually… when was the last war between NATO countries?

 No.494370

>>494368
Idk man I'm just so fucking tired of every thread discussing pointless shit with no actual substance

 No.494371

>>494352
Anglo is shorthand for the British empire and its degenerated spinoff empires. AKA the anglosphere.

 No.494372

Biden must give Putin ‘bloody nose’ if Russia invades Ukraine – US senators
https://www.rt.com/russia/546565-republicans-putin-bloody-nose/

Ukraine planning 'false flag' Donbass incident – militia
https://www.rt.com/russia/546554-donbas-false-flag-ukraine/

 No.494373

>>494366
The question is, self-defense against what exactly? The current Russian government were ultimately the ones that chose to dissolve the USSR, the US assisted them, but they destroyed the USSR themselves which was why their country went into turmoil, history would have been far different had they not chosen to do this.
We both know the US is not actually going to invade Russia, not because the US is “good” or not a belligerent warmonger, it absolutely is, but because Russia has the most nukes in the entire world and with their hypersonic missiles they have the most advanced nuclear arsenal as well, and Russia is known, like all nuclear-armed states, to possess a dead hand system that will do a full-scale launch at its enemies if the legitimate government falls to foreign invasion
So the actual threat to Russia is, for all intents and purposes, losing its own sphere of influence
Now, when discussing competing capitalist states who are combating over spheres of influence, what am I supposed to call this exactly?

 No.494374


 No.494375

>>494372
>Biden must give Putin ‘bloody nose’ if Russia invades Ukraine – US senators
Yeah, Biden should just give him a bloody nose, for Putin will give him an even more painful blow. If Russia loses much, the US will lose much more.

 No.494376

>>494372
>RT
What about Western memestream media? Atrocity propaganda and war drum beatings usually accompany this stuff.

 No.494377

>>494374
Again, do you think realistically, the US is going to invade Russia, or that NATO will invade Russia? Especially when NATO doctrine would necessarily draw the entire bloc into the war if any of them invade Russia? You’re saying the threat is placing more bases around Russia as if this somehow turns it into something beyond a competition for spheres of influence, and yet the only way for it to be something more is if an actual invasion of Russia or a missile attack is on the table. So do you think an actual invasion or missile attack is on the table?
Russia won a stupid game, which was dissolving the Soviet Union, and won a stupid prize, which was completely losing its sphere of influence and being totally surrounded so it can no longer act beyond its borders

 No.494378

Biden predicts Russia 'will move in' to Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/russia-ukraine-joe-biden-news-conference/index.html

Ukraine warns Russia has 'almost completed' build-up of forces near border
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/18/europe/ukraine-intelligence-russia-military-build-up-intl/index.html

Biden live:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpT0EB2zdE4 (probably talk about Russia)

 No.494379

>>494377
>Again, do you think realistically, the US is going to invade Russia
This is what is happening realistically:
>>494344
>>494335
>>494247

 No.494380

>>494379
So there will be no invasion or missile launch, so Russia is not actually facing an existential threat, so this is actually over spheres of influence and determining how much one can act beyond their national borders; thanks for playing

 No.494381

>>494369
that push will never come to shove anymore, which also means that russia will dogwalk them since they have no idea what exactly their objectives are while it’s crystal clear for russia (irredentist annexation and increasing their sphere of power)
this problem is actually a big motivation behind political unification of the EU, because then they can be united against Russian power plays instead of falling into disarray and strategical confusion everytime

 No.494382

>>494380
You don't understand how states work – largely regardless of class character, btw. If nukes are a means for deferring direct war, one state will never allow another have a one up over it. NOTHING is stopping the USA developing its own hypersonic missiles. The fact that they would much rather nazify a country and move missiles there just shows how desperate they are. Russia has precedent with Georgia with acting the way it will act again against Ukraine.

Both Ukraine and Russia will benefit from this on the long run, getting rid of literal nazis, and allowing again ethnic equality in the region.

COPE MORE

 No.494383

>>494382
If the US is desperate and on the verge of collapse, why are you arguing that Russia is desperate and on the verge of collapse?

 No.494384

>>494381
>irredentist annexation
If you think Donetsk or crime are annexations, just look up an ethnic map. Allowing majority Russian areas in the hands of nazis would be insane.
>increasing their sphere of power
Restoring, actually. The US promised it won't spread NATO towards Russia. That promise will be enforced whether they cooperate or not.

>this problem is actually a big motivation behind political unification of the EU, because then they can be united against Russian power plays instead of falling into disarray and strategical confusion everytime

Yeah, about that Russian gas…

 No.494385

>>494383
>why are you arguing that Russia is desperate and on the verge of collapse
I'm not. Maybe read again?

 No.494386

>>494385
>Russia has hypersonic missiles and can strike the US at any time
>US has nukes near Russia and can strike Russia at any time!
>US is desperate and collapsing so trying to save itself!
>Russia is not desperate or collapsing but encircled and on the verge of being destroyed and trying to save itself
So either WWIII is inevitable or we’re stuck we’re we’ve been since the USSR developed nukes, oh fucking well

Still don’t care about your porky state

 No.494387

>>494386
you can't read for shit and you project your own preconceptions on my words

American, I presume.

 No.494388

>>494381
>this problem is actually a big motivation behind political unification of the EU
But it would surely fail, for the political union of the EU is based off imperialism and that if Russia unifies the European continent it will surely bring it in a communist direction.

 No.494389

New Thread
>>699376
>>699376
>>699376
>>699376
>>699376

 No.494390

>>494373
>So the actual threat to Russia is, for all intents and purposes, losing its own sphere of influence
How blurry is that line though? If no nuclear adversaries are to consider war, how much encroachment is acceptable before one side threatens open military confrontation? The US/NATO keeps spinning their arms and everyone else keeps backing away because getting hit is conducive to war, and we are past such barbaric things as open wars between nuclear powers. Everyone else though, lives on the whim of who can destroy them.

the US is always fighting a defensive war of expansion, or a defensive war of anti terrorism , or a defensive war for resources… At which point is NATO expanding not "defensive"?

 No.494391

>>494386
>So either WWIII is inevitable
Yes.

Still want NATO reduced to nuclear ash.

 No.494392

>>494390
The first issue with your reply is believing I claimed the US is actually defending itself
What I asked specifically was whether or not you think the US will realistically invade or attempt to invade Russia, if the answer is no then clearly this isn’t actually an existential struggle for either side despite both sides claiming that it is

 No.494393

>>494366
>So let's get this straight. According to you Russia, whose primary concern is self-defense as of now, is the RIVAL of the USA, whose primary concern is "primary aggression". It seems to me that you are conflating the colonizer/colonized dichotomy with the competing imperialist/imperialist dialectic.
France was "defending itself" from a literal German invasion in 1914 too, but that didn't change the fact that France was still a power driven by the imperative of endless accumulation the same as Germany was. The point I'm trying to make is that Russia is animated by the exact same forces which animate the US and NATO, and unlike a country like Iran or Syria, it's actually in a position to dominate its neighbours (and much of the world) through imperialism if granted an opportunity to do so. Indeed, it would necessarily have to do so, because again, the same forces which cause NATO to be imperialist are also at work in Russia. ​Ergo a Russian victory over the West in Eastern Europe wouldn't be a victory over imperialism.
>Also, what "other capitalist blocs?"
Russia.

 No.494394

>>494329
Because they sold the idea the the U.S. was a cool thing to the CPSU, they sold the idea, through the events of the Berlin Wall, that everything can be a hunkydory wealthefare state with succdemory

This is what people like Bernie Sanders, and members went to do to the USSR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KCoR6UYs1k (1988, way before the USSR dissolution)

Sanders was related to people of the Socialist Workers Party, a gang of troskyites, the same that attacked insanely Stalin, making Gorbachev like a "sensate" response, if you will.

>Soviet officials were prepared to make about their own society frankly I thought that they would be there to tell us that everything is wonderful and that certainly was not the case, for example, they are absolutely open in acknowledging that they are not a democratic society and that those people we spoke to want to become a democratic society and right now they are in the midst of an extraordinarily important and turbulent point in their history at least some of them want to try to determine how they go from where they are.


These are other names:
>Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism: This group was formed after the Soviet coup of 1991 by Manning Marable, Carl Boice, Leslie Cagan, Charlene Mitchell, Angela Davis, Pete Seeger and numerous others who were expelled from (or left) the Communist Party for supporting Mikhail Gorbachev and the pro-democracy faction of the Russian government. Free of the CPUSA, the CCDS founders hoped to unite the divided American Left, and received support from a number of well-known leftists, including Noam Chomsky

https://web.cortland.edu/worrellm/dropbox/red%20groups.pdf


This is western, anglo, leftism trying to appeal the USSR into "democracy", Yeltsin was a sub result from the aggressions that started since the funding of NATO.


You all want, the sabotard, the ancom, the other "grillpill retard" and "dark marxist" to accuse imperialist Russia, but even the mildest succdem of the U.S. was a pawn that served, not to praise their system, but to call it "undemocratic" the USSR system even if they were invited as guests.

Reagan was bad, but these wolves dressed as sheep were destroyed the USSR.

I find hilarious the rightoids attacking Bernie or other communists, when people like them did this shit to the USSR, propped up people like Anatoly Chubais, and now let the U.S. call them "le bad olygarchy" that they themselves created



The anglos are the worst shit ever happened to socialism.

 No.494395

>>494303
You aren't wrong but please keep meta in /meta/


Unique IPs: 15

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / edu / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / wiki / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]