No.505178[Last 50 Posts]
Let's mantain the civil discussion we were having in the last thread.
Last thread got full.
Original post:
Is there a proxy conflict coming?
US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
To check for news:
https://liveuamap.com/esTo check for (military) planes:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/I'm gonna post my opinion about the russian matter in here as well, it's my post, you can't do nothing about it:
Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.
No real reason for NATO to actually not accept, you would literally have world domination, aside from China.
This is because of a very simple reason, NATO wants to balkanize Russia. The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.
Russia is the major country that will get a benefit from climate change, it's a country with a lot of natural resources because it literally owns about 1/8 of the planet or so.
It's the literal counterpart of the US, and the US wants it destroyes so it can truly be the world dominator without having no one to actually stand to them. Also Russia has lotsa nukes.
Not saying tho that Russia is an anti-imperialist nation, it is a capitalist nation and capitalism itself enables imperialism, it's a feature, not a dlc. But the thing is that NATO is searching for Russia is to be completely destroyed and balkanized in 5 states or more.
Also the Rimland theory is more important (at least that'd what NATO officials believe) than what you think.
So in thic conflict I support Russia for these reasons.
>Russia is actively defending itself against an outside invader that wants to mutilate it out of paranoia.>Ukraine isn't worth a damn supporting, they have incorporated in their army neo-nazi paramilitaries.>Ukraine is also a shithole that would be better under russian control… Probably (not that hard of a test tbh, being better than a comprador regime for NATO isn't that hard).>More power to Russia means less power to the US, which will make it more aggressive. Supporting Russia is literally accelerationism to ww3, but accelerationism nonetheless, and no, I don't want ww3, I don't like to happen, but one thing is to not like war and the other is to delude oneself into believing that it will not happen, it will happen because it's the natural course of capitalism. This is more asking for a swift death than a prolonged, painful suffering under late stage capitalism.>Seriously, fuck the Ukrainian goverment.>In fact, fuck ALL nato states, including mine.Despite this, I recognize that:
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialist because imperialism is the capitalist drive for profit natural course of action, read imperialism, the last stage of capitalism. Every capitalist country will become either imperialist, or imperialized, and Russia clearly isn't being imperialized as, say, Togo is.>Russia is ruled by a capitalist class, the same class that killed the Soviet Union and thus killed AES.>The russian state is actively smearing the soviet union, by example making the gulag archipelago a required reading in schools, meanwhile putting into a shrine a fake version of Stalin, deluding themselves into thinking he was a fascistic strong dictator instead of the antithesis of fascism which is why russian rightwingers love to say that they liked Stalin but hate Lenin, despite the former being literally a disciple and rightful succesor to Lenin's theories and politics.Btw this also applies to China.
No.505180
Does anyone know anything about land ownership in Ukraine and oligarchs? I heard some conspiracies and don't know if they make sense. Also why does Eu want from Ukraine?
No.505184
>>505180the EU doesn't want ukraine, NATO does. ukraine is poor as shit and doesn't have much to offer, the european union offered them associate status rather than full membership for that reason (basically they'd have to do what the EU says while reaping none of the benefits).
No.505185
>>505178>The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.Retarded take, Russia isn't menacing Nato. Nato kinda lost it's reason to exist since the dissolution of the Warsaw pact.
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialistTheorylet that skipped reading Lenin, not every capitalist country is imperialist.
In the Ukraine boogaloo, Russia is on the defense, they are holding an anti imperial position, because the Russian bourgeoisie does not want to be integrated in to the hierarchy of the global capitalism below the US bourgeoisie, they want to be peers on an equal footing. Russia's maneuvering is done for security concerns, there is no Russian capital trying to expand into Ukraine, because economically Ukraine would be a deficit acquisition.
>Btw this also applies to China.China is proto socialist and anti imperialist.
OP is parroting US propaganda
OP touched 2 key US propaganda talking points
<Russia as a threat to Nato <Denial/omission of Russian security concerns Also be mindful about the timing of criticism. If somebody is criticizing Russia during peace time it's probably genuine. But during a crisis that potentially could become a hot conflict there is a good chance it's disingenuous and intended for drumming up consent for war. Even if the criticism specifically disavows war. Propaganda messages are about drawing lines between friend and enemy, everything else in propaganda messages is meaningless padding.
No.505186
Fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia, especially fuck Nato, critical support to the breakaway republics of Luhansk and Donetsk
There, before the thread devolves into a pissfight yet again
No.505187
>>505185>I'm a US glowie because I support Russia against NATO.How does it feel being retarded?
Regardless:
>Retarded take, Russia isn't menacing Nato. Nato kinda lost it's reason to exist since the dissolution of the Warsaw pact. Do you know the Heartland vs Rimland theory?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RimlandYou might think that it's retarded, but it is, regardless, really ingrained in anglo military theory. Also that Y deems X as a menace doesn't mean that X is menacing Y, just that Y deems X a menace. This is, NATO deems Russia existing as a menace in of itself, not that Russia is menacing NATO, at the same time that the Nazis deemed the Jews as a menace to Germany, but the Jews weren't menacing Germany.
>Theorylet that skipped reading Lenin, not every capitalist country is imperialist.Every capitalist country has the ability, and the urge, to be imperialist. Imperialism is a core feature of late stage capitalism, it's investing in underdeveloped countries because in other countries the returnal of investment is higher. Imperialism is the export of capital by enterprises in order to exploit another country, be it with agreements (what China is doing in Africa) or by force (what the US did to Iraq). If Russia could, they would, that's what I'm saying.
Imperialism is a full feature of capitalism, is it's natural development. If given the case that russia isn't exporting capital (which I doubt, look at central asia) then it isn't because they don't want to, but because they can't do.
A capitalist nation can't be anti-imperialist, it can only be anti-other_countries_imperialism.
>In the Ukraine boogaloo, Russia is on the defense, they are holding an anti imperial position, because the Russian bourgeoisie does not want to be integrated in to the hierarchy of the global capitalism below the US bourgeoisie, they want to be peers on an equal footing. Russia's maneuvering is done for security concerns, there is no Russian capital trying to expand into Ukraine, because economically Ukraine would be a deficit acquisition.I know, and I said so in the text. What Russia is doing is for legitimate defense against NATO trying to balkanize Russia because they fear Russia because of the Heartland vs Rimland theory.
>China is proto socialist and anti imperialist.<China is proto socialist.Citations needed. Explain why.
<China is Anti-imperialist.Was Japan being anti-imperialist when they declared war against Germany, which had colonies in China? Imperialist nations compete against eachother, and support anti-imperialist movements of the other side.
The US supported the Viet Cong against Japanese occupation, does that make them anti-imperialist? The germans supported and sent Lenin towards Russia, does that make the Second Reich anti-imperialist? The nazis supported Mahatma Ghandi, does that make them anti-imperialists? (yes I know Ghandi was disgusting, but that doesn't mean that he didn't fought somewhat againt british imperialism)
The only anti-imperialist countries ever were those that had or have AES, and that's because they weren't capitalist.
>Also be mindful about the timing of criticism. If somebody is criticizing Russia during peace time it's probably genuine. But during a crisis that potentially could become a hot conflict there is a good chance it's disingenuous and intended for drumming up consent for war. Even if the criticism specifically disavows war. Propaganda messages are about drawing lines between friend and enemy, everything else in propaganda messages is meaningless padding.Suck my cock and balls, I'm supporting Russia and literally saying that NATO wants to balkanize it. I'm saying that everything Russia does towards Ukraine is in legitimate defense against NATO's objective of tearing it into pieces (which is the reason why so much "future borders of the world" maps seem to love balkanizing Russia, it's the unspoken objective of NATO, turning Russia into 5 or more states). This doesn't mean that I don't see that Russia is a capitalist nation. I am, as some would say, critically supporting Russia.
That's the message, to critically support both Russia and China against the US and it's puppet states. To critically support something is to support it critically, being critical of it. I support Russia
despite it being capitalist because I'm inside of a NATO country.
No.505188
>>505179>The US has acquired intelligence about a Russian plan to fabricate a pretext for invasion of Ukraine using a faked video that would build on recent disinformation campaigns, according to senior administration officials & others who were briefedWhy isn't people discussing about this?
They're already setting the ground up in order to say that, whatever actions Ukraine tries to make it becomes fake news.
Like:
<The US says that Russia is planning to fabricate a pretext for the invasion using a fake video.<Have the Ukrainian army invade somewhat Crimea.<Someone tapes the incident.<Russia is clearly pissed as the ukrainian army has trespassed Russian territory.<"Oh, look, it is so obvious that Ukraine wasn't really invading Crimea, it was the Russians who made up the video using hiper-realistic ukrainian uniforms in order to justify the invasion!"This is a lot more serious than it looks.
No.505189
Reminder that being Pro-China makes you Anti-Soviet.
No.505190
>>505185Both Russia and NATO are imperialists in Ukraine. Ukraine deserves to be independent and not rely on either of them. Neither Washington nor Moscow. Support self sovereignty from all exploitative states if you're a true leftist and anti-imperialist.
No.505191
>>505190If Ukraine could be imperialist it would, fuck off, false-flagger.
All capitalists nations deserve to be scorned and, sometimes, critically supported, by communists.
No.505192
>>505191I support the self sovereignty of not only Ukraine but also the Donbass Republics. Both are being exploited by NATO and Russia in this inter-imperialist competition.
No.505194
>>505193Don't shit on them too hard neo liberalism is just so shit they want the apocalypse to happen.
No.505195
Did Russia already invade Ukraine? If so, all my support to the latter.
No.505196
>6 full threads about a nothing burger
the absolute state of leftypol
No.505197
This is the sixth thread and still nothing has happened, can y’all get a life plz?
>>505193Based Lear.
No.505201
>>505198>>505188>We are about to not do some heinous shit, but be unconcerned citizen, it's all the lies of the enemy. You can trust in us, we even know when the enemy is going to lie about the things we aren't doing! Very advanced intelligence.
>Now due to this thing we are not going to do, but we know is going to be reported as if we did, we need to prepare in a way identical as if we were going to do the thing, which we are not doing. In fact, the enemy may very well preemptively lie to you, implying that we are preparing to do the thing and not preparing to stop them from responding to the thing, that we are not doing. Confused?
>They are tricky , these Russians. No.505202
>>505190NATO serves western monopolies. If the US gets a stranglehold on the global supply of oil it will usher in a hundred thousand years of the darkest reaction and split proletariat and bourgeoisie into two distinct species.
No.505203
>>505187Strange post, on the one hand it advocates to critically support Russia against Nato expansion, and on the other hand it makes theoretical claims that Russia is imperialist because of capitalist urges.
>>505190>Ukraine deserves to be independentRussia's proposed conflict resolution is very close to that.
No.505204
>>505178How many minutes are we till midnight?
How long until
America invades? No.505205
>>505189Reminder that you are retarded.
No.505207
Sabre-rattling NOTHINGBURGER!
No.505208
>>505203>Strange post, on the one hand it advocates to critically support Russia against Nato expansion, and on the other hand it makes theoretical claims that Russia is imperialist because of capitalist urges.Yea, it's called "to critically support". Critical support isn't full support, but support against a common enemy (the US and it's NATO vassal states).
No.505212
>>505181What did they do to all the Poles and Carpathians? Genocide 'em?
No.505213
>>505185>Nato kinda lost it's reason to exist since the dissolution of the Warsaw pact. Kek no it fucking didn't. NATO's reason to exist is the maintenance and expansion of Anglo-Americna hegemony and the enforcement of the capitalist world order. There are still anti-American countries, still communist (more or less) countries. The cold war never ended because people will always resist imperialism, and the science of communism is eternal and will give rise to renewed revolutions.
Anything in the way of a unipolar world with the US at its head is a menace to NATO.
No.505214
Joint statement from Putin and Xi is coming today (or tonight)
No.505216
>>505213Satanic trips of truth. NATO is a "defensive alliance" that has literally never waged a defensive war in its entire history.
No.505217
God i hate libtards
No.505218
>>505216>NATO is a "defensive alliance" that has literally never waged a defensive war in its entire history.That's the best kind of defensive alliance tho…
No.505220
>>505218<if I just invade every country that doesn't bow down I'll never have to fight a defensive warThat sure describes Am*rican strategic thinking. But eventually they'll run out of weak countries and will only have nuclear-armed superpowers and smart, nuclear-armed small countries like NK to bully.
God willing Iran will complete its nuclear program and have a reliable deterrent against expansion of Zionist hegemony. And then America will eat itself like an ouroborous because it's run out of other people's resources.
No.505221
>>505185>Nato kinda lost it's reason to exist since the dissolution of the Warsaw pact. Reminder that Nato was founded before warsaw pact and soviet union actually asked to join it and let germany unify at the same time in 1954. Yankees said no and after that warsaw pact was founded as an response to Nato. Nato was never about peace but about containtment of USSR and keeping western europe in line and under the US thumb as independent europe would have naturally started to integrate itself with the eastern europe instead of the transatlantic anglo world.
No.505222
>>505221>independent europe would have naturally started to integrate itself with the eastern europe instead of the transatlantic anglo world.Really? That sounds delightful, if highly over-optimistic hindsight view of the time.
No.505223
>>505222 (me)
*Really? That sounds like a delightful, if highly over-optimistic hindsight view of the time.
No.505224
>>505221>Reminder that Nato was founded before warsaw pact and soviet union actually asked to join it and let germany unify at the same time in 1954.The more you know.
>Nato was never about peace but about containtment of USSRIf USSR containment was the purpose, Nato should have gone away after the Soviet dissolution.
>keeping western europe in line and under the US thumb as independent europe would have naturally started to integrate itself with the eastern europe instead of the transatlantic anglo world.Currently the Nato posture is pretty damaging to EU economic interests, and on a ongoing basis that would cause the dissolution of Nato. Many influences shape the direction of development in geopolitical affairs but economics always remains the deciding factor. Everybody optimizes for economics, because the alternative is death.
No.505226
>>505222It was the path of least resistance geopolitically for eastern and western europe to integrate and it is so even now. Also in the 1940s and early 1950s soviets were seen as the liberators and allies of Europe and US even more so than the americans. Also people were war wary after Europe was burned to the ground just few years earlier and calls for sable ratteling with people who everybody were seeing as allies didn't resonate among the people. The porky elite and arms manufacturers of course begged to differ. Communist resistance movements were popular and at a spot to take over even in western europe. CIA of course intervined every time it looked like it might happen like in in Italy. And things like US invasion in korea helped to finally draw the frontlines for cold war in Europe and in people's minds and that cemented the american block in the west and soviet block in the east.
No.505227
How is Ukrainian economy doing, btw? I heard they are in a tailspin because the their access to foreing capital is limited because nobody wants to give loans with reasonable interest rates to a country that western media says is going to be invaded any minute now. Right now Nato warmongering alone is hurting Ukraine more than any actual act of war by any party. This is apparently the reason why Ukrainian government is saying to the west is overeacting and should cool down.
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1546868/ukraine-tells-west-not-to-panic-over-russian-troop-buildup No.505228
>>505223>highly over-optimistic hindsightThey had to do fascist coups in italy and turkey against the democratic will of the people, and both were done with the explicit intention of blocking the USSR from access to the mediterranean and atlantic.
No.505232
>>505220> it's run out of other people's resources.They'll just go for proxy wars in south America and Africa while keeping a hysterical global media mood, acting as if every act of a nation outside their influence is some incredible threat that keeps the USA on the verge of launching nuclear first strikes, for self defense of course. They won't actually do shit in Asia or Europe but the capitalist subservient media will keep these cold war vibes and bias when referring to live new wars while the US subjugates South America and devastates Africa with proxy wars. And the usual harassing on the periphery of nono countries that have nukes or close alliances with one which does. "Low yield" nuclear weapons will be deployed from planes and rocket artillery in these proxy wars to straight out depopulate whole streaks of land whose only value to imperial powers are mineral wealth anyway. No ICBM no risk of MAD, we promise to only nuke the proxys.
At some point, someone too steeped in the subsequent jingoist brainrot will be in a position to do something catastrophic , probably from the NATO side, but who cares when most of humanity will perish after the nukes anyway.
No.505233
>>505231live(UA)map. is Ukrainian so ofc it would be labeled as propaganda.
No.505235
>>505230U.S accusing the other-side of what they’re about to do.
That’s a classic tactic right there.
No.505236
>>505225They have neo-nazi militias so no.
No.505238
>>505236Why are there so many Nazis in Eastern Europe, for fucks sake, do these people not know about Generalplan Ost? Like even if you're going to be a fascist you can't be a generic Slavic nationalist?
No.505240
>>505236source on the donbass republics having nazi militias?
No.505241
>>505212Yeah, mostly by the Banderites during ww2
No.505243
>>505230>US officials alleged Thursday that Russia has been preparing to "fabricate a pretext for an invasion" of Ukraine by creating "a very graphic propaganda video" that would depict a fake attack by Ukraine against Russia.
<Ukraine actually attacks and kills people<but we already counted for this, guys, and already have said that it's Russian provocation! You have no reason not to believe us!Who let kids and senile idiots rule a nation, lol. Can't even do a provocation properly, they use a fantasy-land logic nobody buys in real life
No.505244
BREAKING: RUSSIA/CHINA: We call on NATO to turn its back in Cold War approaches. China and Russia will now work together to stop color revolutions & militarization of space, external interference. China stands with Russia and opposes further expansion of NATO
Nothing new to people following this from the beginning, but now we see it in an official statement.
No.505245
>>505244Kissinger is rolling in his hopefully soon grave.
No.505248
>>505238You’re underestimating the sheer amount of people in Eastern Europe that hate themselves and wish they were westeners
No.505251
>>505249Bears and dragons are cooler than eagles.
No.505252
State department caught lying live on stage by an AP reporter. They assured us that Russia was going to shoot a war movie with crisis actors, only proof being their assurance. A faked flm is the type of thing that only the US would think of (see: White Helmets in Douma), they projected it onto Russia
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1489336004637044746#m No.505253
>>505244post the source you moron
No.505254
>>505243<Ukraine actually attacks and kills peopleyeah maybe cause their turf is fucking occupied?
No.505257
>>505256tfw the state department is now operating on /pol/ logic
No.505258
>>505255I think he was saying like, "our statement about it IS the proof" which is just hilarious
>>505256It is proof when you can simply invent reality
No.505259
>>505254>their turf is fucking occupiedyou mean controlled by secessionist rebels?
No.505260
>>505252What the actual fuck
No.505261
>>505250>>505253i don't know where the Anon got that from but here is what i found this
https://nitter.net/ASBMilitary/status/1489591228752699397>>505249This rings true, US aggression towards both China and Russia seems to have a unifying effect, because the US presented it self as their common foe. But is that a mere acceleration of the formation of Eurasian power, or is it the cause of it ?
No.505262
>>505254>yeah maybe cause their turf is fucking occupied?Usually i would oppose secessionism, because breaking up countriesmakes government loose efficiency of scale.
However a big foreign superpower overthrew their legitimate government and installed Neo Nazis in power. In a country that was invaded and destroyed by the original Nazis. You can't exactly blame people for trying to break away from that.
No.505263
>>505261It's the cause, up through the early 2000s, Russia was trying to integrate into the "euro community" and had attempted to approach NATO on joining formally.
It never got beyond the very preliminary ideas/stages though
The US failure to capitalize on their geopolitical victory in the 90s will end up in the history books as one of the largest missed opportunities
No.505265
>>505254Didn't the US/NATO coup Ukraine twice? How many times does a puppet government need to be installed for arguments of sovereignty to be moot?
No.505266
>>505263Capitalist countries are structurally incapable of maintaining peaceful relations with those not in their sphere of influence.
No.505268
https://mobile.twitter.com/feliciasonmez/status/1489321450251169798
>At today's WH and State Dept press briefings, reporters pressed for evidence to back up U.S. gov't statements about recent events in Syria and Russia, respectively. In response, officials suggested those reporters might be more inclined to believe ISIS/the Kremlin. Yikes. 1/x
>Aboard AF1, a reporter asked WH press secretary Jen Psaki for evidence to back up the claim that Qurayshi denotated a suicide bomb.
>Psaki asked whether skeptics think the U.S. military is "not providing accurate information and ISIS is providing accurate information." 2/x
>The reporter did not back down:
>"But I mean, the U.S. has not always been straightforward about what happens with civilians," she said. "And I mean, that is a fact." 3/x
>Then, at the State Department, spokesman Ned Price was repeatedly asked for evidence of the U.S. government's claim that Russia plans to create a "false flag" propaganda video as a pretext for invading Ukraine. 4/x
>Price responded: "If you doubt the credibility of the U.S. government, of the British government, of other governments and want to, you know, find solace in information that the Russians are putting out, that is for you to do." 5/xhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/03/ukraine-russia-fake-attack-video-us-claimsThe US government is high on its own supply. They've completely checked out from reality and are sleepwalking into a war they're gonna lose hard.
No.505272
>>505268It's like a reverse Gleiwitz
No.505273
>>505238Some believe the nazies actually didn't want to genocide and enslave slavs or anything like that, that it's a jewish conspiracy and the usual, you know what to expect.
No.505274
>>505263>up through the early 2000s, Russia was trying to integrate into the "euro community" and had attempted to approach NATO on joining formally. >It never got beyond the very preliminary ideas/stages thoughWhy might this be? Because NATO would have lost it's reason for existing if Russia had joined. Not that Nato was ever about defence against Russia or eastern block. Soviet union had neither the capacity or willingness to invade western Europe after WWII nor were western European populace scared of their ally against the Nazis. NATO was from the beginning about drumming up a Russian threat and use that threat to keep the western capitalist countries subservient to US interests and with that carve for itself a sphere of influence. It was never about keeping Russia out it was about keeping European countries in. A unified Europe would have meant more cooperative Europe and if it didn't turn communist it could have created actual competition inside the imperialist block and that was a big no-no.
Also Russia tried to join in NATO previously in 1954 and it was also turned down. That just proves my point.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/molotovs-proposal-the-ussr-join-nato-march-1954 No.505275
>>505204currently sitting at 100 seconds. once we break that final minute barrier id say the true priority of the world should be to bring it as quickly to zero as possible
No.505276
Nothing is going to happen.
No.505277
>>505274>Why might this be?Heartland vs Rimland theory.
The objective of NATO is to balkanize Russia.
No.505278
>>505276I mean, it looks a lot like the US is elaborating it's casus belli.
No.505280
>>505244Says it all lol, Dengists have a much better relationship with Yeltsinite Russia than they did with the USSR.
No.505281
>>505279>>505276No one in this thread besides you two is considering whether WW3 will happen
No.505282
>4000 posts in
<Nothing happened
No.505283
>>505282No bro Russia is going to invade in December/January/February….
No.505284
>>505283Does Russia
need to invade?
No.505285
>>505284NATO won't invade either.
No.505286
>>505209everyone who uses this image or quote should be shot on the street
No.505287
>>505285They can't stomach fighting a competent state military.
No.505288
>>505240Iosif Zisels, head of Vaad Ukraine, the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine, has said that that Russia is "infected with the ideas of revanchism and that is very closely linked to fascism".
According to Zisels, neo-Nazi organisations – which have prospered in Russia for over 20 years, and fuel tensions in the country after the fall of the Soviet Union – are now operating in Ukraine after being active in Moldova and Georgia.
Zisels says the most powerful far-right unit is the Russian National Unity (RNU) movement, led by ultra-nationalist Aleksandr Barkashov.
Barkashov visited Ukraine twice this year, in March and May, and is currently based in Donetsk.
This paramilitary organisation, which advocates the expulsion of non-Russians from the country, was founded in 1990. Its red-and-white emblem resembles the swastika icon used by the German Nazi party in the 1930s and 1940s.
Barkashov's son is fighting in separatist groups in eastern Ukraine, says Zisels.
Among other Far Right groups alleged to be operating in the Ukraine is Aleksandr Dugin's Eurasian Youth Union, right-wing elements of The Other Russia dissident coalition, and the resurrected 'Black Hundreds'.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-who-are-russian-neo-nazi-groups-fighting-separatists-1463489 Many mercenaries are related, directly or indirectly, to the Russian National Unity (RNU) movement of Alexander Barkashov, traditionally very active in the regions close to the borders of Ukraine and North Caucasus, and which offers serious paramilitary training (see one of their propaganda videoclips). The RNU is supposedly closely associated to members of the self-proclaimed government of Donetsk and in particular of Dmitri Boitsov, leader of the Orthodox Donbass organization, who is said to have been taken orders directly from Barkashov.
The volunteers come from several other Russian nationalist groups: the Eurasianist Youth inspired by the Fascist and neo-Eurasianist geopolitician Alexander Dugin; the now-banned Movement Against Illegal Immigration led by Alexander Belov; the group ‘Sputnik and Pogrom’; the national-socialist Slavic Union of Dmitri Demushkin; several small groups inspired by monarchism such as the Russian Imperial Movement; and some from the more Western-oriented groups such as the Russian Social Movement of Konstantin Krylov, often defined as a ‘national-democrat’.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/06/26/is-anyone-in-charge-of-russian-nationalists-fighting-in-ukraine/ No.505289
Why don't they just partition Ukraine and Belarus between the ethnic russian eastern sides and the more ukrainian/belarusian respective western parts like they did with all these other eastern euro ethnicities after ww2, i thought the had learned the lesson
Ukraine and Belarus were never supposed to function as stand-alone states anyway
No.505291
>>505288Still nowhere near as bad as the Ukrops who have neo nazis integrated into their military. There are also far-left russian and international militias in Donetsk. There are no left wingers fighting for Kiev.
No.505292
>>505288They really are lightskin Indians.
No.505294
>>505293Cope, Seethe and Mald.
No.505296
>>505291>Still nowhere near as bad as the Ukrops who have neo nazis integrated into their military.The LPR and DPR do as well though. I would still be in favour of critical support for them, but the role of right wing elements in Donbass shouldn't be ignored.
No.505299
>>505297Modern black hundreds.
No.505300
>>505299Don't you mean black duo?
No.505301
>>505288what no pussy and no prospects do to people
i bet the old fart in the centre was a pioneer back in the day
No.505303
>>505288Is there a non-ukrainian source by any chance? I would find it a lot more believable if the allegations didn't come from groups which are likely to have a bias.
No.505304
>>505288>Source's given:<Washington post.<I(nternational)B(usiness)TimesDunno fam
>>505302The azov batallion has literal marches in ukrainian cities. They are given permission by the Ukrainian goverment to give classes on stuff to children, they call it "patriotic education". You tell me what Luhansk and Donbass has.
No.505305
>>505304>You tell me what Luhansk and Donbass has.Fascist militias. I'm not denying that the fascist influence in Ukraine is greater, but it obviously exists in Donbass as well and shouldn't just be dismissed.
No.505306
>>505247its funny (or at least used to be) you fat bitch
No.505307
>>505283as much as i think its a total nothingburger, even back in november the west was saying the invasion would be happening in the new year. you're like the retards in the 70s who said 'those idiot treehuggers in the 60s said thered be total collapse by like, ten years! look at us now!'
No.505308
>>505288I don't doubt that there are russian neonazis in Donbass but
>international business times>wapo No.505309
>>505261Why is this not being discussed more?
If this is true (I'm still skeptical and haven't dived into it) this would be a massive shift in foreign policy of China.
No.505310
Old story but
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/ukrainian-rightists-burn-alive-39-at-odessa-union-building/Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
On their way to attacking the union hall, which was occupied by anti-Kiev government demonstrators fearing for their lives, the rightists recruited members of a Ukrainian football club, the Chernomorets, according to numerous reports in the European press and on line.
Many of those who attacked and burned the building wore swastikas and other fascist insignias, according to observers. Eye witnesses said that the fascists were armed with bats, shields, and metal chains and that the people inside the union hall had run there for protection from them. After the attack by the rightists streets around the trade union headquarters were reportedly stained with the blood of those who had jumped from windows to escape the flames.
Women and children were reported to be among those burned alive after initial rounds of shots and Molotov cocktails were thrown into the building by the right wingers.
The right wingers who burned the union headquarters had already set another pro-Russian encampment in Odessa afire. That encampment consisted of rows of tents in Odessa’s Kulikova Field Square.
Police said that many of the victims at the House of Trade Unions had choked to death before burning up. The majority of the victims were found lying dead on the floors but some had jumped from windows, according to police.
As the union hall was engulfed in flames, photos posted on Twitter showed people hanging out of windows and sitting on windowsills where they appeared to be preparing to jump.
According to numerous reports those who jumped and survived were surrounded and beaten by right-wingers, including members of the football team.
The videos and photos showed Ukrainian riot police standing there doing nothing to stop or prevent the violence. The Ukrainian police said they could do nothing because they were “unarmed.”
Right Sector has bragged about its role in the killings on line and on YouTube:
“At first we broke through the side, and then we came through the main entrance,” said one pro-Kiev rightist who identified as a member of the group.
As the building burned some of the pro-Kiev activists said on Twitter that “Colorado beetles are being roasted up in Odessa,” using a derogatory term for the St. George’s ribbons worn by many of the anti-Kiev government demonstrators.
There were few official media outlets present, thus the heavy reliance on live streamed social media.
“The aim is to completely clear Odessa of pro-Russians,” said Dmitry Rogovsky, another Right Sector activist whose hand was injured during the fighting.
Increasing violence by the rightists is a growing embarrassment to the U.S. and the European Union, which have backed the right wing coup in Kiev and have tried to pin the blame for Ukraine’s troubles on Russia. Leading circles in those countries had hoped to use the coup government to force an IMF-designed austerity program on the Ukraine. If the right wingers continue to embarrass the West, however, U.S., EU and IMF plans for the Ukraine could go awry.
No.505311
>>505309>Why is this not being discussed more?Many color revolutions have failed recently, and we all assumed that it was proof for the CIA rotting from the inside. We assumed that it was taken over by self centered careerists gaming it as an institution, you know the neo-liberal subject that is good at climbing the power-ladder with out being actually good at what they do. At least their recruitment adds are giving off vibes like that. But maybe it's just China and Russia tutoring other countries to defend them self against CIA ops. There isn't much to debate about because it's all speculation atm.
No.505312
>>505288>>505290>>505297Plenty of people went as tourists to Donbass to pose with guns and with flags for political capital. Show me those guys actually doing any fighting
No.505313
>>505305>it obviously exists in Donbass as well and shouldn't just be dismissedYes it should. On the one hand we have entire military formations integrated into the state armed forces, with several parties represented in the national assembly and often supporting or pressuring the government in policy changes, amid a country that is basing it's national identity in no small part of nazi collaborators as national heroes, with streets and stadiums named after them, and monuments erected throughout Europe. On the other side is a smattering of individuals and very marginal groups, half of whom are probably outright FSB honeypots. A large enough quantitative difference is a qualitative difference.
Equating the minuscule far right presence in the Donbass with that in Ukraine is a bad faith rhetorical sleigh of hand that might as well have come straight out of Langley for its obvious goal: further demonize the enemies of NATO, and continue the ignoble "neither Washington nor Moscow/Beijing" controlled left opposition narrative. You pull the same shit in the PRC thread, fuck you.
No.505314
>>505313Russian fascists initially sided with Ukraine, actually. Then they got "better". "Fascist international" demanded that they supported Ukrainian nationalism, and half of them did, but very quickly popular opinion turned against Ukrainian fascists so much that Russian fascists first shamefully, then upenly accepted Putin as their lord and saviour. Those who weren't smart like that got offed either politically or physically.
No.505315
>>505282It's just the same bidenbot baiting and people falling for it
No.505316
>>505313>and continue the ignoble "neither Washington nor Moscow/Beijing"They literally are against that you dumbass, the US line right now is that anyone who takes a both sides position of is literally a heckin Russian agent.
No.505317
>>726856
Shanghai has a transgender children’s clinic, thought you ought to know
No.505318
>>505187anime pfp = post discarded
No.505319
>>505313>On the one hand we have entire military formations integrated into the state armed forcesIn what way are these fash in Donbass not integrated into the armed forces? Donbass military is composed of militias, and this includes far right militias who see their cause as being compatible with that of Donbass. It's not as if these people are alone either, it's not uncommon to find Tsarist and pro-Orthodox imagery and attitudes among many of the fighters there. Even the flag of the DPR itself literally has a Russian Imperial eagle on it.
>Equating the minuscule far right presence in the Donbass I didn't equate them. I pointed out their existence and said that this should be taken into account when analyzing the nature of the DPR and LPR as political projects. And you're saying we should just pretend they aren't there because that somehow helps NATO? You do understand the meaning of the phrase "critical support" do you not? If you are concerned that pointing out the presence of fascist elements in Donbass will cause people to support NATO, maybe the actual solution is for Donbass to expel these elements.
>continue the ignoble "neither Washington nor Moscow/Beijing" controlled left opposition narrativeNot taking sides in conflicts between reactionary capitalist powers is literally the only principled communist position. What difference does it make so long as our irl agitation and activity is directed against our own governments? If my actual activity is directed against Western imperialism, why do I also have to delude myself about the nature of the Russian state or the forces fighting in Donbass?
No.505320
>>505319Copied from
https://critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/afghanistan-past-present-and-future-a-marxist-analysis/>After the Russian Revolution, there was much discussion in the Communist International on what should be the attitude of Marxists when imperialist countries find themselves involved in wars of conquest against pre-capitalist countries. In the Second International, right-wing Social Democrats like Edward Bernstein argued that such imperialist wars should be supported because the imperialist countries were bringing the gains of capitalist civilization to backward and “barbaric” peoples.<But the left-wing Social Democrats and the Communists after the Russian Revolution rejected this argument. The main enemy the workers’ movement faces is world imperialism and not the pre-capitalist formations that survive in various parts of the world.>Communists, the leaders of the Third International explained, should strive to achieve proletarian leadership over the struggles of the peoples of pre-capitalist areas wherever possible. Communists should oppose the leadership of these struggles by religious and clerical forces such as that of the Afghanistan Taliban. But if clerical, tribal, and even monarchist forces find themselves at the head of struggles against imperialism anyway, communists are duty bound to support all struggles against imperialism regardless of their leaderships.<The defeat of imperialist invaders, regardless of the leadership of the forces fighting imperialism, is a blow against imperialism, the main enemy of the working class, while a victory of the imperialist invaders strengthens our main enemy. The debacle in Afghanistan will make it harder — though, of course, not impossible — to start new “easy-to-win” wars against “backward” countries. Far from overcoming the “Vietnam syndrome,” U.S. imperialism will now have to overcome the “Afghanistan syndrome.”>For example, in 1935 fascist Italy invaded the African country Ethiopia, then ruled by the autocratic Emperor Haile Selassie. In pre-capitalist Ethiopia, slavery still existed. There were socialists in the 1930s who argued for neutrality in the war between Italy and Ethiopia. Mussolini and Selassie were both “dictators,” these socialists argued. And even under Mussolini, Italy didn’t have chattel slavery while chattel slavery did exist under Selassie. Despite the fact of the existence of slavery in Ethiopia, all Marxists in the 1930s worthy of the name defended Ethiopia against the Italian imperialist invasion. Even if Italy in the 1930s had been a parliamentary republic, like it is today, communists would still have supported Ethiopia in its struggle with Italian “democratic” imperialism.>Similarly, Marxists in the 1930s supported China under the blood-soaked anti-communist dictator Chiang Kai-Shek in his rather reluctant struggle against the imperialist Japanese invaders. Again there were socialists in the 1930s who argued that there was nothing to choose between imperialist Japan and the dictator Chiang Kai-Shek. But the Marxists of those days knew that if the Japanese imperialists were successful in colonizing China, not only would Japanese imperialism but world imperialism would have been greatly strengthened. But if the Japanese were defeated, not only Japanese but world imperialism in general would be dealt a powerful blow. And this is exactly what happened. No.505321
>>726856
The wretchedness of being a far-right Trumplord and condemning American imperialism. If I were histrionic and paranoid I would wonder if this is a way to smear the left among liberals.
No.505322
>>505320Is Russia in a pre-capitalist country? Or is it a capitalist great power with both the means and internal imperatives to become imperialist, that's literally ruled by the people who destroyed the USSR?
>But if the Japanese were defeated, not only Japanese but world imperialism in general would be dealt a powerful blow. And this is exactly what happened.Highly debatable. To the extent that the defeat of Japan led to the defeat of imperialism in general, this is only because the communists defeated the KMT. If Chiang had won the Chinese Civil War afterwards, then China would have remained a semi-colony of the West and world imperialism would have been just as strong as if the Japanese had won. It was the CPC that struck the blow against imperialism, the KMT were just agents of Western imperialism against Japanese imperialism.
No.505325
Joint Statement of the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China on the International Relations Entering a New Era and the Global Sustainable DevelopmentThe sides reiterate the need for consolidation, not division of the international community, the need for cooperation, not confrontation. The sides oppose the return of international relations to the state of confrontation between major powers, when the weak fall prey to the strong. The sides intend to resist attempts to substitute universally recognized formats and mechanisms that are consistent with international law for rules elaborated in private by certain nations or blocs of nations, and are against addressing international problems indirectly and without consensus, oppose power politics, bullying, unilateral sanctions, and extraterritorial application of jurisdiction, as well as the abuse of export control policies, and support trade facilitation in line with the rules of the World Trade Organization (WTO).
http://en.kremlin.ru/supplement/5770US says China ties won’t stop Russian economic ‘catastrophe’ after any Ukraine invasionThe warning comes after Chinese state media publishes Putin’s pledge that Beijing and Moscow would resist Western sanctions pressure
The US says it has an array of tools it can deploy if foreign companies, including those in China, try to evade export control actions over Ukraine
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3165764/us-says-china-ties-wont-make-consequences-if-russia-invades?module=hard_link&pgtype=article No.505326
>>505319>In what way are these fash in Donbass not integrated into the armed forces? Link to 1 (one) official state document or pronouncement of the republics in question announcing or formalizing this. That's what integrated means.
No.505327
>>505323Roepcke was one of the biggest shills for attacking Syria for years and years.
No.505328
>>505326The difference is that Donbass does not have a regular army in the same way Ukraine does, so the mere presence of such militias on the front line is about as close to integration as these groups can get.
No.505329
>>505322Can you explain how "pre-capitalist country" status changes the argument?
No.505330
>>505329Because capitalism is inherently imperialist. All capitalist countries with the power to become imperialist will become imperialist. Hence, Russia cannot act as a genuinely anti-imperialist force in the long term, because it is on an inevitable path to imperialism itself. This isn't the case for a pre-capitalist country.
No.505331
>>505330NTA, but this is stupid. Capitalism tends towards imperialism if conditions allow it, but that doesn’t mean all countries at a given juncture are imperialist. Hell, imperialism relies on imperializing and preventing other capitalist countries from being imperialist.
Do I think Russia has the likelihood of becoming imperialist in the near future? Sure. But is it now? No.
No.505332
>>505330In the quote you were responding to the author says
>>505320> Even if Italy in the 1930s had been a parliamentary republic, like it is today, communists would still have supported Ethiopia in its struggle with Italian “democratic” imperialism. No.505333
>>505331This isn't incompatible with what the anon you're responding to said though
>>505330 No.505334
>>505330>Russia cannot act as a genuinely anti-imperialist force in the long termCountries aren't people, they are systems that can't be disingenuous or genuine.
If Russia acts accordingly we count it as anti-imperialist.
You are talking about anti-imperialism as if it was a moral principle and you are making arguments that the Russian rulers don't really believe in that, and that's probably the case but socialist countries can't act on moral principles either.
>on an inevitable path to imperialism itselfCapitalism will probably be over long before Russia can reach the imperial stage, so this is a theoretical concern.
Imperialism may have a minimum rate of profit requirement and be snuffed out before capitalism it self ends.
No.505335
>>505323half of leftypol would gladly believe this as long as it was the WAPO reporting on it
No.505336
>>505334>Countries aren't people, they are systems that can't be disingenuous or genuine.I was referring to the actual character of their policy, ie a country is genuinely anti-imperialist when their policy consistently opposes imperialism as a system, rather than opposing the imperialism of one country just to impose their own.
>If Russia acts accordingly we count it as anti-imperialistBut it doesn't act accordingly. Russian companies exploit the resources and labour of countries within their sphere of influence, especially when it comes to Central Asia and its fossil fuel reserves. Any aid they render to actual anti-imperialist forces is in spite of their real class character, and is only done for strategic reasons in the short term. They're like the Germans sending support to the Bolsheviks or the Easter Rising.
>You are talking about anti-imperialism as if it was a moral principleNo im talking about it as an outgrowth of the imperatives of the capitalist system, imperatives which drive the Russian economy and thus its policy. Capitalist countries are driven to imperialism by the need to endlessly accumulate capital, something which effects Russia just like any other capitalist country.
>Capitalism will probably be over long before Russia can reach the imperial stageThat's an absurd statement. We have no idea how long capitalism will last, and it certainly doesn't seem like its about to dissappear anytime soon. Moreover, there is no specific stage Russia has to reach before it becomes imperialist. It's capitalists will seek to maximize their profits wherever possible, they aren't going to sit around and wait until Russia reaches a certain stage before they start doing so.
No.505338
>Russell Bentley was born in the US state of Texas in 1960, and he became interested in communism at the age of twelve after reading the works of men such as Ho Chi Minh and Che Guevara. Bentley would decide to join the Vostok Battalion of the Donetsk People's Republic in December 2014, believing that the new government of Ukraine was fascist, and that Russia was not an authoritarian state, but an ally of the Donbass rebels. Bentley would take part in fighting the Ukrainian Army on the front lines until June 2015, and he entered the information warfare branch of the armed forces of the DPR. Bentley released videos of himself in Donetsk, and he was also interviewed by Vice News on one occasion. Bentley celebrated the death of pro-Ukraine American fighter Mark Paslawsky, and he accused America of being a fascist police state, accused all Ukrainian soldiers of being Nazis, and claimed that Russia was less of a dictatorship than America. By July 2016, he had been baptized into the Russian Orthodox church.
A real American cowboy fighting for Russia?
What a character, we truly are living in historical times.
No.505339
>>505338I hope he was an actual goddamn communist
.
No.505340
>>505338> he became interested in communism at the age of twelve after reading the works of men such as Ho Chi Minh and Che Guevara
>he had been baptized into the Russian Orthodox churchkek
this is the average american tankie
No.505341
>>505336>a country is genuinely anti-imperialist when their policy consistently opposes imperialism as a systemRussia is not consistent but, but a.t.m. they're net anti imperialist.
>But it doesn't act accordingly. Russian companies exploit the resources and labour of countries within their sphere of influence, especially when it comes to Central Asia and its fossil fuel reserves.What are you talking about Russian fossil fuel capitalist have not been able to expand at all, the US blocks all paths to new oil . Russia may be able to expand oil exploration in the arctic in the next 2 decades a little.
>Any aid they render to actual anti-imperialist forces is in spite of their real class character, and is only done for strategic reasonsDoesn't matter, anti imperialist actions are anti imperialist actions. Lenin recognized this over hundred years ago, that some bourgeoisie are put into a position where they have to act as progressive force. It doesn't matter weather their hearts are pure or not.
>No im talking about it as an outgrowth of the imperatives of the capitalist system, imperatives which drive the Russian economy and thus its policy. >Capitalist countries are driven to imperialism by the need to endlessly accumulate capital, something which effects Russia just like any other capitalist country.Imperialism grows out of financial capital forming an imperial bourgeoisie. Russia doesn't have enough financial capital for that, and they will never get it because established imperial capital won't let anybody new rise up. Industrial capital alone is not able to fund imperial expansion and domination against that competition.
>That's an absurd statement. We have no idea how long capitalism will last, and it certainly doesn't seem like its about to dissappear anytime soon.Are you calling Marx absurd ? People have calculated the falling rate of profit, it's going to approximate zero some time after 2055-2060. Imperialism will collapse before that, there is a minimum profit rate for empire. If i had to guess, i would say imperialism will become physically unsustainable by 2035-2040.
>capitalists will seek to maximize their profits wherever possible, they aren't going to sit around and wait until Russia reaches a certain stage before they start doing so.They might want to but they aren't able to.
No.505342
>>505341>What are you talking about Russian fossil fuel capitalist have not been able to expand at allThey are already acting as imperialists in Central Asia.
>Doesn't matter, anti imperialist actions are anti imperialist actions. Lenin recognized this over hundred years agoLenin specifically said that not all anti-imperialist struggles are worthy of our support. I would say that in Ukraine and Eastern Europe more generally Russia is in the right, however this doesn't mean that the overall character of the Russian state is not reactionary and imperialist itself.
>It doesn't matter weather their hearts are pure or not.It's not a question of "pure hearts". It's a question of understanding how Russia is likely to behave if they gain the upper hand over the US. They are a country that actually has the capability to fill the power vacuum left by America as it declines, and they will almost certainly use this as an opportunity to expand their own imperial sphere.
>Imperialism grows out of financial capital forming an imperial bourgeoisie. That's just the mechanisms that inevitably forces capitalist countries to become imperialist. They are still perfectly capable of doing so before they reach this stage. If a Russian capitalist has an opportunity to raise profits by exploiting foreigners, he isn't going to refuse just because Russia has not yet reached the financial monopoly stage of capitalism.
>People have calculated the falling rate of profit, it's going to approximate zero some time after 2055-2060. People have also been predicting the imminent collapse of capitalism for always a century. Many unforseen things can happen in the next 30 years that could result in the RoP being revived, I don't think we should make any such assumptions.
No.505343
>>505341> People have calculated the falling rate of profit, it's going to approximate zero some time after 2055-2060. Imperialism will collapse before that, there is a minimum profit rate for empire. If i had to guess, i would say imperialism will become physically unsustainable by 2035-2040.sauce
No.505344
>>505276This. I don't understand why people are still talking about this Nothingburger, LOL.
No.505347
>>505342>They are already acting as imperialists in Central Asia.Are they really ? I certainly haven't heard of anything like that. I'll look into that later.
>I would say that in Ukraine and Eastern Europe more generally Russia is in the right, however this doesn't mean that the overall character of the Russian state is not reactionary and imperialist itself.contradictory take, first you say critically support Russia in it's anti imperialist struggles, but then you say it's imperialist.
>It's a question of understanding how Russia is likely to behave if they gain the upper hand over the US.Russia's economy is small compare to the US's, the potential of that happening is too far in the future.
>They are a country that actually has the capability to fill the power vacuum left by America as it declinesAmerica isn't leaving behind a power vacuum, nothing will follow in the US's footsteps, the hegemonic game is over.
>People have also been predicting the imminent collapse of capitalism for always a century. 2055-60 is not "imminent"
>Many unforseen things can happen in the next 30 years that could result in the RoP being revived, I don't think we should make any such assumptions.No the theory is rock solid on that, the falling rate of profit is a physical limitation of reality, read Cockshott he explains the demographic dimension that isn't very clear in Marx's texts.
Anyway i don't think you have a case to call Russia imperialist. They have a really powerful military, but they don't have the economic strength necessary for imperialism.
>>505343The most recent one i know off is by Micheal Roberts and it's on his thenextrecession blog, you have to go look for it your self I'm too lazy, but here is a "look at this graph" picture.
No.505349
>>505347>Are they really ?They are. They own billions in oils and gas assets in Central Asia and maintain thousands of troops stationed throughout the region on foreign soil. Somehow if one of those governments were to go socialist and nationalize those Russian-owned oilfields, I get the feeling like those soldiers wouldn't just sit around doing nothing.
>first you say critically support Russia in it's anti imperialist struggles, but then you say it's imperialistI'm saying that Russian policy is imperialist in some regions but not others.
>Russia's economy is small compare to the US's, the potential of that happening is too far in the future.Yes but it's still much larger than many of its neighbours, and is also backed by Russia's role as a major fossil fuel supplier as well as it's military power. If the US were out of the picture I don't think they would have a very hard time imposing themselves on countries like Mongolia, Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltics, Armenia, etc.
>vacuum, nothing will follow in the US's footsteps, the hegemonic game is over.Again I seriously doubt that.
>No the theory is rock solid on that, the falling rate of profit is a physical limitation of realityIn the long term yes, but there are many things that can counteract it in the short term.
No.505350
>>505331This is the most reasonable take IMHO.
Russia is showing some signs of imperial inclinations (usage of PMCs in Africa,CSTO treaty usage), but it's too weak to be an imperial power on a global scale.
No.505351
>>505349>They are. They own billions in oils and gas assets in Central AsiaSource?
Last time I checked, to put an example, most of Kazhakstan oil is owned by it's state company, which is like 72% western owned, 8% russian and the 20% left from the state.
No.505353
>>505222Not really. The USSR knew it would be rejected and when they where they used it as proof that NATO was an anti soviet alliance and then created the Warsaw pact.
No.505355
>>505351>In 2001, Kazakhstan was able to build the CPC pipeline, which is the first private pipeline running through Russia and whose project was essential for providing export routes to the future increase of oil production from major fields, Tengiz, Kashagan and Karachaganak. However, directly and indirectly, Russia managed to own more than 40% of the Company’s share, through a 24% stake hold by Russian Federation, Lukarco’s 12,5% share and Rosneft-Shell Caspian venture’s 7,5% stake.>Concerning the exploration and development in Kazakhstan, Russian companies are a little behind of Western and Chinese companies. Indeed, Russia is more relevant in the export sector than in the development sector. Russian presence in the Kazakh fields is mainly represented by the energy private company, Lukoil. The Russian private company owns a 5% stake in the TengizChevroil Company, through its subsidiary LukArco; a 13% stake in the Karachaganak Petroleum Operating and 12,5% stake in the CPC through LukArco. Additionally, since 1995 Lukoil has hold 50% of the Kumkol North field operated with a 25-year license by Turgai Petroleum…Just from skimming the section on Kazakhstan from PDF related. Russia clearly exports capital to Central Asia, and as we saw in the recent CSTO intervention in Kazkahstan it will use military force to protect those investments.
No.505357
>>726856
>Keith Woods
>Nicholas J. Fuentes
No
No.505358
Critical support for literal nazis fighting in Donetsk.
No.505359
@728741
>literal nazis
Wow they must be some of the oldest people in the world lul
No.505360
Flight trackers and showing large amounts of Russian air transports from Russian bases in Central Asia. Also, more Russian AF units are moving closer to Ukraine.
No.505362
>>505358>>505359go back both of you
No.505365
>>505248you got me right in the feels :<
No.505366
>>505360links to trackers pweeze
No.505370
>>505354"The Saker" is a Far-Right schizo Duginist Vlasovite who promotes the Anti-Communist and Anti-Semitic canard (created by the Nazis) that the USSR was controlled by "Judeo-Bolsheviks" on the Neo-Fascist "Unz Review" website known for Holocaust denial and Orientalist Qanon (Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin jointly take on the "savior" role of Trump, while Trump takes on the "secret helper" role of "Q", with the "Decedent West" taking on the role of the "Global Pedophile Cabal" and the "Traditional East" taking on the role of the "Real American Patriots") conspiracies. The fact that Dengists take this Anti-Communist Reactionary seriously, and that most Anti-Communist Fascists love Dengist China (both the "Unz Review" and /pol/ love "Xi Jinping thought"), should tell you that Dengism is a Far-Right Fascist ideology.
No.505371
>>505370nobody fucking asked you queer
No.505372
>>505200He kinda looks like Steve Albini
No.505373
>>505370Hey King, I agree with most of your takes, but why do so many of your posts read so similar? Are they written by a bot?
No.505374
>>505373Of Course I'm a real Human Being with Emotions and own Agenda, because I write like this doesn't mean ]U_Up3ZTTX4m/ZW"H}kD^S]22>[X]8H[:HB[M_]r[{Km[2KA<)<jkVaLL[GhBRnk`>VC.?}@KM:v9%wa,Vh(25-/yAR?k8Us*G>fW^3%r;($H{8KH6re%-B#"3#!{G'rjG3\$Z[x^FqR{##?:H*@~__U?t.Sjw(mT}-Uy]cmKdd25F:+h*Cw3qA+KN;D?Y'&*pcR~meZP$C@'*uVjq&2T,hjD{6Mp>x)M/v.{/7j?_RHFWTT9y3XsR^>29:N(2&P
No.505376
Nooooothin'bürger!
No.505377
>>505373Thanks for the compliment. I'm sorry that I write like that, its a bad habit of mine that is probably the result of constantly discussing the same topics and getting the same responses from most posters, LOL.
>>505374That's really funny, 😂.
No.505378
>>505377>probably the result of constantly discussing the same topics and getting the same responses from most posters,Good points, most arguments on here tend to be circular, especially when it comes to the people you are debating with, Stay based comrade o7
No.505379
>>505376Sure, It's not going to lead to any war. But the fact that it lead to China and Russia openly uniting over the issue of NATO expansion and color revolutions is "HABBENING" enough.
No.505381
>>505380>Hohols>White Pick one
No.505382
>>505370Margaret Thatcher supported the pound over the euro does that mean that we on the left should now support the EU just because she did something actually smart for once?
YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT IS A LOGICAL FALLACY. Your retardation is astounding. Who gives a shit if a fascist supports china? There are MLs who supported Trump simply because they viewed him as more destabilizing to America than Hillary! What are you, 12? "Oh the bad side did x so we have to do y" GROW UP.
No.505383
>>505380Redditoid jerkoff thread
No.505384
>>505362Sorry i meant national socialist. No need to get offended about a slur.
No.505385
>>505370>most Anti-Communist Fascists love Dengist China One of the dumbest takes I’ve seen all day. Go to /pol/ for five minute and you will see how the Chinese are depicted as a socially backward bugman people.
No.505386
>>505378Friendly reminder to all anons that king lear is a schizophrenic narcissist. You're wasting your time arguing with a mentally ill invalid.
No.505389
>>505388This message dosent work at all lmao
"Hands off Ukraine" they don't even support Ukraine at all
If they meant that they'd be angry as well over Russia intervention there it would make sense but they don't care about that aspect.
This "hands off" message made sense when it's countries they support and believe in self determination for it.
If it ends up with Russia taking over Ukraine they won't be throwing a fuss
No.505391
>>505390What did i say that is false?
When their message was"hands off" Venezuela, cuba, Iran etc it was logical because they support those countries and do not want intervention from anywhere
With Ukraine they directly dislike the sitting government and do not have an issue with Russian interventing there just nato.
No.505392
>>505388>People just seeming normal>Groups united on something>Message simpler than usual>Girls making 40% of the groupRare optics W from Us leftism.
No.505393
>>505307Yeah well they were right.
No.505395
>>505370There's a whole network of these sites, it's the neofascist milleu.
No.505396
>>505394Any missile defense system can be overwhelmed by inferior missiles through sheer attrition and number of missiles launched. This was the rationale behind Hamas attempting to overwhelm Israel's Iron Dome system. Hamas misjudged the amount of rockets it would take and only got a few through the shield but the theory is sound.
If war starts in the near future America won't have enough of these to even make a difference. The US Navy is already dead on arrival. AEGIS cannot match up against Russian/Chinese tech and is entirely untested outside of simulations and manufacturer boasts (and of course with the defense industry privatized they have no incentive to undercut their own products and contracts by admitting faults lmao).
In the end imperial arrogance and neoliberalism will be the death of the US armed forces. Only an idiot like Friedman could think that mass privatization could lead to good results, but we will reap the benefits of their mistake.
No.505397
>>505394Didn't watch. Not sure how SM-6 with a range of 300km will intercept missiles launched from thousands of km away. A "slow" hypersonic missile traveling at mach 5 will travel the 300km range of an SM-6 in 3 minutes. The ship (most likely platform) launching the SM-6 will have 3 minutes to find, track, and guide the missiles on target. Keep in mind ships have a limited number of guidance radars (4 on US navy Arleigh-Bruke class destroyers IIRC) so each ship can only guide 4 missiles to target at a time. Given the limited 3 minute time window, a typical ship cannot launch and guide more than interceptor 4 missiles. Typical doctrine is to fire 2 interceptors at every attacking missile which means a typical ship can defend against 2 incoming missiles. The fact that ships can carry over 100 missiles is irrelevant in this scenario because there is not enough time to launch all those interceptor missiles. Even assuming a 100% interception rate (which is not true), the attacker must simply launch 2-4 times as many missiles as there are defending ships to overwhelm the defensive systems. However expensive hypersonic missiles may be, they are orders of magnitude cheaper than a navy ship.
Also, faster missiles will shorten the time the defenders has to respond and the attacking missiles can perform evasive maneuvers as well to reduce the chance of getting intercepted.
No.505400
>>505394I'm calling a cope on this one. First of all it is harder to build a effective anti-hypersonic missile than it is to build a hypersonic missile and if US doesn't even have a passable prototype of hypersonic missile and since American missile tech and especially missile defense has always been second rate compared to Russian tech, I find it unlikely that US has a reliable capability shoot down hypersonic missiles. The maneuverability of these hypersonic glide vehicles and other hypersonic types also requires for the intercepting missile to be more maneuverable than the incoming missile, since if it can change direction and altitude at will it demands that the anti-missile must be able to react actively at hypersonic speeds to not miss, since you can't just predict the future coordinates with standard ballistics calculations and such. There is one more thing about this maneuverability thing and that is the ability just go around any missile defenses, not just like when Chinese hypersonic missile went around the world to strike it's target, but also in smaller distances these missiles could maybe circle around the target and strike it from every direction. And since the anti-missile needs to be more accurate than the missile it is looking to shoot down, you will always need more missile defense than the opponent has missiles flying at you and that always leaves the door open for saturation attacks. There is also one interesting thing about about the Russian zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile that I read that when it flies in the atmosphere at hypersonic speed, the air on the missile's surface turns into plasma and that in turn absorbs radio waves and makes it invisible to radars. So if you buy the Russian claims, a US carrier group for example might not even see the thing coming, no matter how good the US capability to shoot one down is.
The function of US military machine is not so much that it can destroy any nation and it's military anywhere it wishes, but about the threat it poses and the effect that has on behavior of foreign nations towards the US and it's demands. I there are even a speculations that US navy for example is dead meat if it ever approaches China on the pacific with hostile intent, that alone would have negative impacts towards US morale and more importantly the image and that veneer of invulnerability and strength that is one of the greatest asset that American military still has. So it would make sense to for US military to talk big even if they knew their sailor boys would most likely have an express ticket down to the Mariana trench or Mid-Atlantic Ridge if war ever happened with China or Russia.
No.505402
>>505401possibly the most based man in the current political climate, it only makes sense the total unity in vocal denouncement of him everywhere you look, only more of a sign of the utter pozzed nature of the west
No.505404
lol nice to come to leftypol only to see ML straight up worshiping some capitalist strong man, never change
No.505408
>>505405>he has a swiss bank account just like in my communist bideo game tropico!ok "comrade"
No.505409
>>505408You mock but El Presidente is a better leader than 90% of western ones
No.505411
>>505410leninhat I think it might be a bit of an overreach to say everyone that works for an NGO is a fascist
No.505412
>>505408>Making shit up just to save face after losing an argumentk lol
>>505411That's not what was claimed. See 0:16
>>505403people who were honest weren't touched. People who received NED money were shut down.
No.505414
>>505411NGOs function on the front lines of the modern day battlefield. stop being a faggot
No.505415
>>505404A capitalist strong man that's selling his country out to the corrupt, oligarchic Russian state and plans to integrate with them in the future. MLs that support this are morons lol.
No.505416
>>505415>A capitalist strong man that's selling his country out to the corrupt, oligarchic Russian state and plans to integrate with them in the future. Lukashenko is currently maintaining a de facto socialist economy, and the primary forces opposing him are pro-Western neoliberals demanding privatization and integration of Belarus into the Western economic sphere (ie becoming an EU colony like the rest of Eastern Europe). Obviously he is the preferable option in this situation, and the extent to which he can even be called a capitalist is pretty debatable.
No.505417
>>505416Both the EU capitalists and Russian capitalists are shit. Any nation that professes neutrality and gives the finger to both would get my support. A "socialist" picking sides in this inter-capitalist conflict is just a larper.
No.505418
>>505417>These entities are equally bad>If one were to win the conflict, it’d be just the same as if the other were to Shut the fuck up, liberal
No.505421
>>505417>Both the EU capitalists and Russian capitalists are shit. Any nation that professes neutrality and gives the finger to both would get my support. A "socialist" picking sides in this inter-capitalist conflict is just a larper.What's your nationality
No.505422
>>505418Whatever, larper. Tell me more about the glories of eastern capitalism and how it's totally different from western capitalism.
No.505423
>>505417<Both the EU capitalists and Russian capitalists are shit. Any nation that professes neutrality and gives the finger to both would get my support. A "socialist" picking sides in this inter-capitalist conflict is just a larper.That's rich; listen little burger that's just liberal drivel
, and you sure as shit are no ancom, LARPing cunt!
No.505424
>>505419Is that Bordiga? what is that abomination?
No.505425
>>505411People like Roman Protasevich are fascists.
No.505426
>>505424Yeah I think the stalinoids tried to do some sort of infantile representation of Bordiga because Lukashenko truly is the actual existing socialist
No.505428
>>505423Is this what leftypol has been reduced to? You guys seem perfectly ok with capitalism and imperialism as long as it's done by the East instead of the West. Stop calling yourselves communists.
No.505429
>>505428They'll just tell you it's not real imperialism or capitalism because it's precisely not done by the west. Why would you do a real movement instead of geopolitical side taking anyway
No.505430
>>505427>>505426No, its that internet baby meme mixed with either bordiga or contsanza.
No.505431
>>505411Liberals are fascist and NGOs is their preferred modus operandi. LuCHADshenko is right in crushing them.
No.505432
>>505231>>505230if NATO really is pursuing the batshit insane strategy of attacking russia and claiming that evidence of the attack is made up by Russia, the smart response from Russia would be preemptively to bring in foreign journalists to record the attack, providing video and picture evidence of the event that can't be said to be government propaganda. Civilian photos on social media would also be useful.
No.505433
>>505256Russia will perform a false flag
source: myself a few seconds ago
No.505434
>>505418Liberal is as devoid as a term as tankie at this point.
No.505436
>>505432>if NATO really is pursuing the batshit insane strategy of attacking russia and claiming that evidence of the attack is made up by Russia, the smart response from Russia would be preemptively to bring in foreign journalists to record the attack, providing video and picture evidence of the event that can't be said to be government propaganda. Civilian photos on social media would also be useful.literally all of this, and any possible variant that could be concocted of this, would be dismissed as russian propaganda, false flag, made-up or incorrectly sourced material, etc. you simply cannot win the media war when it comes to this, westerners will not accept a single word from russia or the east as being truthful
No.505437
Would be real fun to have skirmishes in Chernobyl, it's right there by the belarusian border
No.505438
>>505432I low key kind of wonder if this would also be an excuse for the US to bring back The Draft.
It’s pretty clear we won’t be getting healthcare or student debt forgiveness as those would mean less meat for the grinder—a way to get around that would be mandatory conscription with those things as a pallet cleanse to make it go down easier.
No.505441
>>505438Well golly gee, turns out the Pentagon does have some advocates demanding the Draft return.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/04/05/all-volunteer-force-cant-meet-pentagons-future-needs-advocates-warn/And here’s an especially interesting bit…
> AVF Forum member, retired Army Col. Larry Wilkerson, laid out some of the reasons he thinks that the current volunteer force isn’t up to future challenges such as Iran, Russia, China, nuclear proliferation and the climate crisis.
<“We need more skulls for the skull throne! How can we beat the Russkies if we can’t throw men at them?!” No.505444
>>505443>encourage the western European powers to rebuild their own armies so they don't come crying to Americakek this is literally American imperialist propaganda. They're tired of being a bunch of beta simps with a massive military budget while their Euro client states keep small militaries and put the money into social programs and infrastructure. NATO has been trying to get them to commit to a larger military contribution for years.
No.505446
>>505435>RAND Corporation - OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS. EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS. >Published > Research > Issue Papers >Center for Russia and Eurasia Ukraine and the Caspian<An Opportunity for the United States © RAND 2000
>by Olga Oliker
>The United States has said that the Caspian region, and the development of its energy resources, is a key national security interest. It has also made clear its commitment to the independence of Ukraine. But current options for Caspian oil transport are beset with political and logistical problems and, therefore, fall far short of guaranteeing the safe, secure export of Caspian oil in the short or long term. At the same time, Russia's increasing stranglehold on Ukraine's energy imports does not bode well for the smaller country's ability to maintain its hard-won sovereignty, and it increases the risk that Ukraine will call on the United States and its NATO allies to stand behind it against Russia. The development of an export route for Caspian oil through Ukraine is a cheap and effective means of ameliorating both problems, and thus an approach that Washington should support.
>Caspian Oil, the United States, and Ukraine
>The Caspian Sea basin has attracted considerable attention in recent years, due largely to speculation as to the potential size of the region's natural gas and oil reserves. While analysts continue to debate whether the resources will ever prove truly significant, states are making policy choices in the apparent belief that they will. The United States is no exception. The potential for energy wealth has already led Clinton administration officials to class Central Asia and the Caucasus as a region "vital" to the United States.[1] Washington hopes that the development of natural gas and oil there will lead to reduced reliance on Middle Eastern suppliers for both the United States and its European allies. It also sees successful exploitation as the key to independence and prosperity for the Caspian states. This independence and prosperity, it is believed, will in turn foster democracy, something Washington has long held as a central policy goal for all of the former Soviet Union.
>One of the primary points of contention has been the question of how Caspian oil and gas will reach customers. The easiest, most direct route is through Iran, but Washington has been vehement in its opposition to Teheran's involvement in Caspian development. Moscow advocates an expansion of current transport routes—through Russia and over the Black Sea (or, in the case of natural gas, under it).
>The Baku-Ceyhan route begins in Kazakhstan. Already tankers ship oil from Kazakh ports to Baku, where it joins Azerbaijani oil in a journey along a newly refurbished pipeline to and through Georgia. Baku-Ceyhan's supporters hope to build an additional pipeline from Georgia to Turkey, culminating in the Turkish port of Ceyhan. Such a route would have tremendous political advantages for its participants—and for the United States. It avoids both Iran and Armenia. It traverses Turkey, a longtime friend and NATO ally, as well as Georgia and Azerbaijan, key NATO Partnership for Peace states with which U.S. ties have been growing exponentially in recent years. […]
>Analysis suggests, however, that constructing Baku-Ceyhan would take longer and cost more than just about any other potential export alternative—and probably more than most current estimates (now running at $2.5 to $4 billion). The route passes through particularly harsh terrain and unstable secession-minded regions in Turkey and Georgia. […]
>What else is on the table? The Iran route is anathema to the United States, and likely will remain so for some time. Even if it were not, it seems ill advised to ship oil billed as an alternative to reliance on the Middle East through one of the Middle East's largest oil producers. A proposal to ship the oil over the Black Sea to and through the Balkans seems equally imprudent, given the instability of that region.
>Happily, there is another alternative. For years, Ukraine has advocated a route through Azerbaijan and Georgia, over the Black Sea, and through Ukraine to Poland. Although this proposal has been all but ignored in Washington, it has real potential. Most of the necessary pipeline already exists. Ukraine's ongoing improvements to its refinery and pipeline infrastructure, given some foreign assistance to speed the process, will make it sufficient both to handle the "early" oil, extracted in the next few years while Baku-Ceyhan is still building, and to process even larger quantities later. Perhaps most important, the price tag would be relatively small: the cost of a few miles of pipeline (estimated at $400 million) and facility development and improvements (about $600 million).
>Why, then, has this option not been seriously considered to date? One reason is that despite Azerbaijani and Georgian support and Kazakhstan's ongoing export of oil to Ukraine along this same route, the United States' single-minded championing of Baku-Ceyhan has drawn investor attention away from this possibility. Ukraine's abysmal investment climate and lack of energy sector reform have not helped either. Current tax laws penalize rather than invite foreign investors[…] And the fact of the matter is, the United States needs Ukraine to hold on to its independence.
>The Link to Ukrainian Sovereignty and Why It Matters to the United States
>Over the course of the 1990s, U.S. policy toward Ukraine underwent a significant transformation. Washington's initial interest was narrow: to make sure Ukraine fulfilled its commitment to become a non-nuclear weapons state. But with that goal accomplished in 1996, the relationship has continued to grow and expand into what is today a close and substantive friendship to which the United States has devoted considerable resources. Recently, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright identified Ukraine as one of four countries deserving of Washington's particular notice and assistance, promising to help sustain this "partner and friend['s]" democratic path.[2] To Ukraine, its ties with the U.S. are its last and best guarantee of security and sovereignty. For centuries, Ukraine has been integral to Russia's empires, both Soviet and Czarist.[3] […]
>[…]While Ukraine has potentially large domestic reserves of oil and gas, their exploitation would require considerable foreign investment. Although interest has been expressed by a number of companies, most notably British Petroleum, Ukraine's aforementioned legal and tax framework has continued to repel investors. Furthermore, even if efforts to reform the investment climate were successful, the prospects for exploiting Ukraine's oil and gas wealth are strictly long-term, a question of several years at least.
>Ukraine's coal sector was long a primary source of energy for this country—nearly half of its domestic energy production. Unfortunately, today the coal industry is a liability rather than an asset. Grossly inefficient methods of production have significantly contributed to the overall energy arrears problem. Miners often go unpaid for months at a time. But fixing the coal sector to make it work at all better would be overwhelmingly expensive. Interestingly, however, there are believed to be significant gas reserves in the Donbass, the very region where Ukraine's ailing coal sector is centralized. If the tax and investment laws were to be fixed, then, the development of Ukraine's domestic gas production could serve to revitalize the area. […]
>[…]Last but not least, the fact remains that what Ukraine's energy sector needs most is internal reform. This includes not only revisions to investment and tax laws, but also significant changes in how energy is allocated, purchased, and paid for at all levels, including both households and industry. The growth of the barter system and debt arrears at the local level have fed Ukraine's huge debt to Russia, increasing incentives to continue to "purchase" energy from that country. But the political difficulties of implementing effective reform mean that Ukraine also needs some strong incentives to take the necessary steps.
>To recap, the Ukrainian export route will provide a secure and reliable complement to Baku-Ceyhan for Caspian oil export, one that does not require the United States to abrogate its commitment to Turkey, but which nonetheless serves as an excellent hedge should Baku-Ceyhan fail. It will also strengthen Ukraine from a security standpoint, enabling it to better withstand Russian pressure and, thus, significantly decrease the likelihood that it will ask the United States and NATO to defend it from its large neighbor. Furthermore, in diversifying Ukrainian energy imports away from Russia, this policy solution creates significant incentives for domestic energy sector reform as well as reform of the overall investment climate, which, in turn, should lead to development of Ukraine's own oil and gas resources. […]
>[…]In order to avoid the painful and potentially dangerous decisions that would force, the United States should move now to help Ukraine diversify away from Russian energy. Because it could also enable Washington to help to provide a more secure and reliable route for Caspian oil, this policy is particularly advantageous. https://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP198.html No.505449
>>505446
>Even if Ukraine can make its own fuel rods, however, it must still ship the spent fuel to Russia, to waste processing facilities in Krasnoyarsk. Furthermore, Ukraine's nuclear sector as a whole suffers from underfunding, inefficiency, and safety concerns. Ukraine has hoped to use foreign assistance, promised by European lenders and the G-7 in connection with the decommissioning of reactors at the infamous Chornobyl nuclear power plant, to build new facilities. Unfortunately, foreign funders are unconvinced that Ukraine needs new nuclear power plants and have been hesitant to invest in an industry that they see as a hazard.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Lithuania
>In 1994, Lithuania accepted US$36.8 million from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development's Nuclear Safety Account to improve safety at the Ignalina site. Under the grant, both the reactors had to be closed within 15–20 years. Moreover, in order to join the EU, Lithuania had to decommission one reactor immediately and the second by 2009. The EU agreed to pay for decommissioning costs and some compensation through 2013. Strong public opposition followed, because of fear for electricity price hikes.[1]
>Lithuania agreed to close the plant as part of its accession agreement to the European Union. Unit 1 was closed in December 2004; Unit 2, which counted for 25% of Lithuania's electricity generating capacity and supplied about 70% of Lithuania's electrical demand,[2][3] was closed on December 31, 2009. Proposals have been made to construct a new nuclear power plant at the same site, but plans have not materialised since then.
>The Lithuanian government forecasts that the electricity price for households will rise by 30% from 2010.[9][23] Analysts expect that the shutdown could cut Lithuania's gross domestic product growth by 1–1.5%, and increase inflation by 1%.[9] Ignalina's production will be compensated for by production of the fossil fuel Elektrėnai Power Plant as well as by imports from Russia, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, and Belarus.[9][24]
>The closure may test Lithuanian–Russian relations.[25] Responding to concerns that Lithuania would become more dependent on Russian energy sources that could be withdrawn if relations deteriorate, President Dalia Grybauskaitė issued reassuring statements in late 2009.[25]
>Lithuania imports 70% of its power from Belarus, and the average price of electricity is among the highest in EU.[26][27][28] In 2015, transmission lines connected Lithuania to Sweden (700 MW) and Poland (500 MW).[29] No.505451
>>505405Based comrade Luka.
No.505452
>>505445The absolute irony of this post.
No.505453
>>505417>Any nation that professes neutrality and gives the finger to both would get my support. Have you ever noticed that this is impossible?
No.505455
>>505417>gets dismantled by IMF and humanitarian bombingNo regrets?
No.505456
>>505454>OOF.jpgAh, yes - United Arab Republic, Saudi Arabia and Cuba, very neutral. Good to see people supporting Monarchist Cambodia and Yemen. And Sukarno, what a guy. Surely nothing bad will happen.
Looking at the Non-Aligned Movement as something to be admired, instead of self-discrediting bullshit, is the same as white nationalists looking at Japan as a "success" of ethnic nationalism.
No.505457
>>505456The UAR was quite neutral. And I noticed you left out Nehru, whose non-alignment influences Indian foreign policy to this day.
No.505458
>>505457Yeah, the Indian government was anticommunists who were more than happy to suck up soviet money and resources and now is led by neolibs who want to play the us and russia off of one another to get the best deal from both sides.
The indians and the chinese fought a war in 1962, btw.
No.505459
>>505458If that's the best course for their country, fine. Cuba was also very pro-USSR because that's the only way their revolution could survive. Too bad if it pisses you off.
>The indians and the chinese fought a war in 1962, btw.Yeah, over territory disputes. And? China also invaded Vietnam after they put down Pol Pot's insane regime.
No.505460
>>505459You mean when India took in the Dalai Lama?
And Cuba took in support from the USSR and became a Marxist-Leninist State in the process. India did none of that shit and murdered Marxists in West Bengal. India is a representation of the failures of the non-aligned movement for actually moving history and the people occupying its countries forward
No.505461
>>505445>>505447I don't see what's sus about that, this well armed secretive organization says they are the people. We should believe them (they fight against the US maybe). True communists right there folks.
No.505463
>>5051837 days to the river rhine finna become 2 days to the dniepr
No.505466
>>505445>no access to the sea>gigantic anchor on flaghuh?
No.505468
>>505467Based Russia is still Stalinist.
No.505469
>>732592
Ugh. Franquist piece of shit. Get banned.
No.505471
>>505447Glowies sure love smearing Donbas as nothing more than Russian nationalists.
Cope and seethe you imperialist fucks. I hope Putin shits on all of you.
No.505472
Embedding error.
Interesting breakdown by BE. Posting here for all you hapooners.
No.505474
>>505471Yeah it has a big communist presence hidden by fascists. Of course, the Russian and Ukrainian governments worked together to suppress them.
No.505475
>>505439Ngl I would to see them get smashed by a Russian rocket artillery barrage but it's not gonna happen.
No.505476
>>505471Dude, I'm not even anti-Donbass or whatever, chill the FUCK out with the edge, please? It's hard for me to even process what you're trying to say when it's written in such a weird, abrasive tone like this. I'm not trying to start a conflict or anything, and although I sadly expect otherwise, I hope you can respond to me in good faith as well.
No.505477
>>505453With competing imperialist powers sabotaging any chance for countries to have their own independent policy, it's not hard to see why it's rare in this day and age.
No.505478
>>505467No need to raise awareness in Germany, Goebbels came up with it.
No.505480
>>505479It's just USA trying it's hardest to make it seem like American wishes came true. Reality, however, is that Germany is just doing "eh, okay" over and over again, not committing to anything.
No.505482
>>505481And yes the Ukrainian fascist is pregnant with poljak
No.505483
>>505481give the ukrainian a pig head first.
No.505485
>>505480>Germany is just doing "eh, okay" over and over again, not committing to anything.>"eh, okay" […], not committingYour own logic doesn't even check out there, badly coping kraut (don't get so attached to your ruling class, the EU is no better than the US when it comes to imperial games - they're allies)
No.505491
So given that Russia is not the agressor, what reason would Ukraine have to attack. Like what would be the precipitating event of a hypothetical war.
No.505492
>>505467What website is this where you get all kinds of updates?
No.505493
>>505491they want to take back donetsk and luhansk, if anything. but it doesn't matter anyways cuz a false flag is on its way to justify them rolling in
No.505494
>>505178>Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.Yeah, gorbamoron, but since Putin said that the USSR fall was the worst geopolitical catastrophe in the 20th century you understand that discourse doesn't come from the ones holding power in Russia.
https://apnews.com/article/d36b368c6ad44bb2b8e883fc8d800514<Putin: If he could, he’d try to prevent 1991 USSR collapse No.505495
>>505477Exactly, so "bro, just have self-determination" can be easily dismissed
No.505498
>>505467What I love is that Holodomor is never going to be taken as seriously because it was a famine pure and simple, shitty situation that would suck to be in, socialist or no. The Holocaust was a real targeted thing with clear intentions. Even with Mao with the GLF the only criticism is "bad management of land", again not targeted but another shitty situation. The Holocaust was a concerted concentrated systematic extermination of a peoples.
No.505500
>>505491>So given that Russia is not the agressor, what reason would Ukraine have to attack.Getting back it's separatists provinces + invading crimea.
Don't worry, they won't invade, but Russia will make it look like they did with hyper-realistic uniforms and hyper-realistic blood. Trust me, the US intelligence said it.
>>505494><Putin: If he could, he’d try to prevent 1991 USSR collapseThen why doesn't he bring it back? Or did he just want the territory the soviets held and ignore everything else they did?
Also Putin tried to join once, if I'm correct, the other time was with Yeltsin.
No.505504
This thread is your brain on happening addiction
No.505506
>>505505Countries brag about their nuclear arsenal all the time
No.505507
>>505506Uh-huh, and you think this state of affairs means it is stable and will persist forever, and that you will always be saved from nuclear war by one vote short of unanimity?
No.505508
>>505505I was referring to the desire for war between Russia and Ukraine but that as well.
No.505509
>>505484every single one of those stereotypes is factually correct.
source: refugee from ukropland
No.505510
>>505507Stop jizzing your pants over boring-ass saber rattling, Russia and USA don't want to end the world otherwise they would have done it already
No.505511
>>505509salo is great, no shame in eating it
No.505512
>>505471this kind of enthusiasm about DNR/LNR. Most of communist/nazbol/nationalists already left those places. These people usually get disillusioned because of the ruling bureaucratic backstabber of those "people's repblics" and their oligarchic masters in Russia.
Just because Kiev junta is shit, it doesn't mean that the republic are doing great.
No.505514
>>505512where did these communists go?
No.505517
We need more Ukraine and Joe Jiden YTPs in times like these
https://youtu.be/AfOian3cYewhttps://youtu.be/8VL4wM6Zfw4Someone on here could probably do a great one
No.505518
>no nuclear winter yetNOTHINGBORSCHT>>505516what game
No.505520
>>505500>Then why doesn't he bring it back?probably because he doesn't wnt to end up bayoneted up the ass like gadaffi
No.505521
>>505500Implying he cares about socialism or that his oligarch billionaire power base wouldn't dump him in a ditch and elect another leader.
Even absolute dictators (which Putin isn't) don't go around pissing off the people backing them.
No.505524
>>505522Would be so typical of NATO to do a preeminent invasion because of the foregone conclusion that Russia will
No.505526
>>505524Russia's industrial logistics for their military is located in the Russian hinterland, out of reach. The Ukraine's however would be in the battle zone. A Nato assault would ground to a halt very quickly, and get pushed out by a counter offensive. The US and Nato military brass must be aware that they can't remote supply the Ukrainian military. Their strategy is more likely going to be baiting Russia to make the first move to get them into a more exposed position
No.505528
>>505500>Then why doesn't he bring it back?That's not a burden for him alone.
>Also Putin tried to join onceNot believing until seeing. The last time a U.S. politician seriously suggested Russia should join nato was in 2000, was Bill Clinton, Putin was already in power and he declined the idea.
No.505529
>>505527>AT LEAST THE US DOESN'T THREATEN [OTHER COUNTRIES] MILITARILY, ONLY RUSSIA DOES.MY UYGHUR WHATTTTT
No.505530
>>505527>Musktards , lolberts and rightoids tools aiming for fascism and their ideas are generally retarded.<But also all imperialism is bad but specially that not done by the US and everyone should be ruled by the US to reduce harm and nothing the US does is exploitative and I love Agent Kochinski ,he's a really sensible leftist.Post for the job you want not the job you have ,eh?
No.505532
>>505479we dont take that. 80% (of not just the east) are against helping Ukraine in an armed conflict.
You must understand that theres one God in Germany, and its not even money, its stability. Its is our trauma out of the 30 years war and all the snowballing that came after.
If our goverment is not able to provide stability, Scholz is out.
No.505533
>>505531Yeah well the way the question is worded is weird, I would say that it is in America's best interests, but I also don't support what's in America's best interests, so….
No.505534
>>505531the eternal boomer strikes again!
No.505535
>>505527brainlet herehow does one counter the
>"NATO will never invade Russia because Russia has Nukes">"Thus, Russia has no reason to be afraid"argument?
No.505536
>>505532>You must understand that theres one God in Germany, and its not even money, its stability.Probably the truest thing uttered on Leftypol today
No.505537
>>505531Part of this has to be that all the anti-Trump conservatives who are as hawkish as anyone in America all became Democrats since Trump happened
>>505535I think it's very naïve, that argument says that Russia's only security should be the threat of global nuclear holocaust, an extremely shitty defense tactic that no one wants. The US doesn't accept that as their only defense for the same reason
No.505538
>>505531Ya, now ask them how they feel about going to war China.
No.505539
>>505535>being this bad at game theoryAsk them how missiles in Cuba caused a crisis then.
No.505540
JVPITERIANPutin makes deal with Macron over Russian troop buildup – FT
https://www.rt.com/russia/548618-troops-withdrawal-belarus-border/ No.505542
>>505535They would have the capability of shooting down Russian planes in Russian airspace and could impose a no-fly zone like they have done in other countries.
If NATO had control of Crimea or Georgia they could put anti-missiles there and potentially cover launches from Russia which would upset the balance of mutually assured destruction and significantly and exponentially increase the likelihood of a US first strike, which is something that they have been trying to normalize with research into "tactical" and "mini" nukes that are to be used against ground troops.
No.505544
>>505542I am in terminal based mode
No.505546
Abkhazian and Ossetian mercenaries have been spotted in Donbass
No.505548
>>505547nice political retardation.
No.505549
>>505547hello, based department?
No.505553
>>505551why is non-burger politics so entertaining
No.505554
>>505553Bourgeois political theater
Brits do this shit too. They get rowdy and jeer each other in the commons.
No.505555
>>505551Good, some Slovaks know what ideology treated them as untermensch. And they know what ruling class is playing with fire protecting that ideology.
No.505556
>>505550Isn't weaponizing space supposed to be illegal?
No.505557
>>505556Putting nuclear weapons in space is illegal. Conventional weapons are ok.
No.505558
>>505547Putin, the ultimate centrist.
No.505559
Russian Anti-US song (title in Japanese)
https://youtu.be/ccjnc0YpJx8 No.505560
>>505527>Agent Kochinski, who has good takes on the situation Holy fuck
No.505562
>>505561>bowtie weareropinion discarded
No.505564
>>505561As I just posted in the burger thread, we're waiting for what I suspect is a plot twist.
The US wouldn't be doing this retarded sharade if it didn't have a plan. So, what is its plan? What's the end goal here?
No.505568
>>505564It’s already started:
>claim Russia is orchestrating a false flag attack>attack orchestrated by the U.S. happens, but U.S. can now muddy the waters and say that it’s fake>Russia invades>Now they have their stupid excuse cancel Nordstream 2 and sanction Germany if they don’t comply. No.505569
>>505563He might go all out.
Hard to say.
But what other recourse does he have when it’s very clearly their intention to tighten the noose around that country’s neck?
No.505571
>>505563Damn this is the first time I've seen Putin actually crack and lose his cool in an interview. He seems stressed as hell.
Undoubtedly the military is even more pissed off than him and want him to be tougher but Putin himself wants to make a deal with the West and is frustrated that they aren't being reasonable.
No.505572
>>505571>>505570>>505569Do you guys think reddit liberal reaction to that video would be bad or good. Idk if I should post it on reddit.
The one of Putin talking about NATO and Ukraine. If bad i won't
No.505573
>>505572Reddit liberals are legit NPCs who believe everything the CIA tells them. You'd have better luck convincing a /pol/tard that Putin isn't a baby eating monster than you would a r*dditor
No.505574
>>505572I don’t use reddit, but I’m guessing you will get called a Russian sympathizer by liberals.
No.505576
>>505575I thought /pol/ hated him because he's tolerant of Muslims and Jews lol
No.505577
>>505576there's an ongoing intellectual debate about this but the general consensus is in favor of him for standing up against the ebil globohomo based on liveleak hate crime videos
No.505578
European banks panicking over Russia-Ukraine crisis – reportsBanks in Italy, France, and Austria are most exposed
European banks are concerned that the payment system which connects them to Russia could become a casualty of the Ukraine crisis, Reuters reported on Wednesday, citing its sources. The banks describe the potential disconnection of Russia from SWIFT as an “atomic bomb” for the industry because it would prevent the repayment of debts, it said.
According to research by JPMorgan, European banks with subsidiaries in Russia are most at risk from economic restrictions. The study said a handful of lenders, including UniCredit, RBI, France’s Societe Generale, and ING of the Netherlands, have notable exposure to the country.
Data from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) shows Italian and French banks each had outstanding claims of some $25 billion on Russia in the third quarter of 2021. Austrian banks had $17.5 billion, while US banks were owed some $14.7 billion.
Foreign bank exposure to Russia has more than halved since the US and the EU introduced anti-Russia sanctions in 2014, BIS data shows. Back then, the SWIFT international payment system had refused to consider delisting Russia from its services in response to calls it had received.
However, the renewed threat to cut Russia from the payment network, which handles global financial transfers and is used by more than 11,000 financial institutions in over 200 countries, is a major concern for international banks.
The short-term consequences of such a ban are opaque, and might backfire, according to Jan Pieter Krahnen, a finance expert at Frankfurt’s Goethe University and adviser to the German Finance Ministry. He told Reuters that in the long term it could lead to the establishing of a parallel mechanism that would be “a loss for the global system, and also facilitate conflicts further down the road as opportunity costs vanish.”
Heinrich Steinhauer, who represents the German lender Helaba in Moscow, explained that
such a move would be tantamount to a giant debt forgiveness program by prohibiting payments. He described it as a “sort of atomic bomb,” saying “For many this would be a catastrophe. For many in the European Union and Russia, and less so for the US because economic ties are fewer.”
https://www.rt.com/business/548754-european-banks-russia-ukraine-crisis/lol
No.505579
>>505578>Debt ForgivenessFINALLYTHE OPPRESSED PROLES OF SOUTHERN EUROPE LABORING UNDER THE YOKE OF THEIR GERMAN MASTERS AND THE FOURTH REICH (EU) SHALL FINALLY BE FREED FROM THEIR AUSTERITY BURDEN THROUGH THE SACRED PRACTICE OF THERMONUCLEAR WAR.
No.505580
>>505578imagine if Russia is actually kicked out of swift and in desperation EU has to switch to some Russo-chinese payment system.
No.505582
>>505578Nooo, America. Please don't go to war with russia.
Think about my hecking profiterinos
No.505583
>>505579I mean if I look at this right, it's only Russian debts that are under threat, if you want a debt writeoff then your country is gonna have to invade someone and get sanctioned, sorry bro
(also even if Russia got disconnected western banks would still get their blood from the stone somehow)
No.505584
>>505578So what would be more damaging, Russia being excluded from SWIFT overnight or Russia ceasing to supply Europe(except Belarus) with fossil fuels overnight?
Seems like Europe is one turn of the Russian gas knob from doing a Kazakhstan. And then what, the USA starts putting down unruly European wagies in the name of Human Rights and liberty?
DOOO EEEEEETTTTT No.505586
>>505585I will house a Ukrainian qt woman. I am doing my part as an American patriot to help
No.505589
>>505580ECONOMIC DECOUPLING LFG
>>505563He is not bluffing. Americans have indicated that they won't start WW3 to protect a non-NATO country. Eastern Ukraine is free real estate for Russia if they want it.
No.505590
>>505563Where can I find this video uploaded somewhere else so I can text it to my family? I'd rather not have to email it.
No.505591
>>505567This is almost as fun as the Azerjanny drone signed by Erdogan.
No.505592
>>505576>>505577Not really they also cheered on the Taliban. /pol/ is more anti-imperialist than reddit libs would ever wish to be albeit for the wrong reasons
No.505593
>>505571Putin is a rational actor, but westoids are so saturated with glowuyghur propaganda that they've begun to get high on their own bullshit supply. That's why he's giving Euros the reality check, he isn't fucking around and he wants them to know how serious the situation is.
No.505595
>>505567>Nazi sympathizers in Ukraine are "freedom lovers">Imperial Japanese sympathizers in Taiwan are "fighters for democracy"get me off this wild fucking ride please
No.505596
Here is the explanation of the diplomatic breakdown. Basically, the rights for countries to democratically choose to join NATO are supposed to be tempered by the security concerns created for nearby countries by the act of joining NATO. This just means that countries shouldn't be able to join NATO just to gang up on a non-NATO country, even if their precious democratic processes have decided to do so. These conditions for joining NATO have been internationally agreed on, but NATO is not only ignoring these conditions in their communications, it is citing older agreements that had none of these conditions. It is trying to bury the more recent agreements and ignore those conditions and focus on the country's right to join if they have an acceptable democracy and choose to. (Ukraine btw does not have real democracy and probably wouldn't be a part of NATO for decades anyways.)
Q: Has Moscow forwarded to the U.S. side the answers to their written materials sent in connection with Russia's proposals on security guarantees? What was the subject of today's phone conversation with E. Blinken? What contacts are you planning to have in that regard?
Sergey Lavrov: Today we heard some reports from the State Department saying that there was supposedly a response from Moscow to the document the Americans sent in response to our initial offer on security guarantees in Europe.
There is a misunderstanding here. When we received the U.S. reaction about a week ago, we started studying it. It was immediately clear that the Americans preferred to concentrate on discussing the important, but secondary issues in their own way: whether it was impossible to agree on mutual non-deployment of striking weapons, including intermediate-range and shorter-range land-based missiles, which were previously covered by the New START Treaty, which the US destroyed, transparency in exercises, measures to prevent unforeseen incidents between combat planes and ships, and other such confidence-building steps.
On the key issue that prompted us to take initiatives with the United States and the North Atlantic alliance, the response has been negative. I am referring to our demand that everyone implement in good faith the OSCE's 1999 Istanbul and 2010 Astana agreements on the indivisibility of security.
These agreements stipulate not only freedom of choice of alliances, but also condition this freedom on the need to avoid any steps that would strengthen the security of any state at the expense of the security of others. On this key issue we have seen in the reactions of both the United States and NATO an extremely negative attitude. They are focusing solely on the principle of freedom of choice of alliances, completely ignoring the condition that was agreed at the highest level on the inadmissibility of infringing on the security of other states in doing so.We are also concerned that other NATO countries, for example France, recently said through its Foreign Minister that they insist on the need to ensure security on the basis of the documents, which preceded the Istanbul Charter and the Astana Declaration. At the same time it cites the document of the Paris OSCE summit of 1990, in which there was no requirement not to strengthen their security at the expense of the security of others.
In other words, our Western colleagues are simply trying not even to ignore this key principle of international law agreed on in the Euro-Atlantic area, but to consign it to oblivion. To prevent this from happening, when we received the reaction from Washington to our initial proposals, I described in detail what we are now talking about in a separate message and sent it to all the foreign ministers of OSCE states and a number of other states so that they knew our position.
Today I have confirmed to Secretary of State Blinken that we will not allow the topic to be muddled. We will insist on an honest talk and explanation why the West does not want to fulfill its obligations or only selectively and in its favor. Mr. Blinken agreed there is something to talk about. Let's see how things go. At this stage, we are completing the interagency coordination of proposals on other issues that we have received from the United States. We will report them to our president.
https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/1796663/ No.505597
>>505555>Good, some Slovaks know what ideology treated them as untermenschnazis didn't treat them as subhumans. they were their good allies (and also the last allies on the european continent in 1944).
Their soldiers were awarded by Hitler personally.
No.505598
>>505594I appreciate it but I'm looking for subs not dubs.
No.505599
>>505598search for "putin macron" on youtube
No.505600
>>505563Say what you want but I like Putin as a person. He has this charisma.
No.505601
>>505547Based political compass meme wow
No.505602
>>505600maybe he has charisma but that's evereything. he's a coward who never fulfills his promises and when he does he fucks everything up.
No.505603
>>505513I can bet the last is truth
Is like in the latinoamerican world every single nation would call their language "-ean": nicaraguan, el salvadorian, cuban, mexican.
Fucking nationalist spooks lmao
No.505604
>>505603Not that much. There’s considerable admixture from polish, while russian has considerable admixture from old church slavonic. They’re still both east slavic, but very different languages.
No.505605
>>505603Ukrainian and Russian are pretty much exactly as distant from each other as English is from Dutch.
No.505606
>>505578I wonder how much Turkish Porkies are exposed to this shit.
If they are exposed we could have literally Turkey/Italy/Spain/Greece/Austria economies imploding at the same time.
Posadist dream scenario incoming?
No.505609
>>505596Very concise explanation of the Russian side of the story.
No.505611
>>505605No. More like German and Dutch
No.505614
>>505571>>505572>>505573He's fine. Pretty sure that torture thing at the end was a joke.
No.505618
>>505617Ukrainians demonstrating top class and moral superiority as usual
No.505622
>>505621They didn't put the 88 in order to be more subtle.
No.505629
Met with an Ukrainian tourist a week ago. Asked his opinion about the ongoing situation.
>muh russia bad
asked him about NATO expansion
>yeah, that's lame, but Crimea
asked him about 90% of Crimea being Russians and voting to join Russia
>well, okay, but that's still not ok, cuz uhm… our clay
asked him about Ukraine passing anti-minority language laws
>well… yeah… that's lame
asked him whether Russians had been legitimized to leave a country that outlaws their language
>… i understand what you are saying
asked him about nazis being in power, being in a military
>yeah, i don't support that
so yeah, the overall impression I got is that the avg. Ukroid is totally the victim of fucking Burger meddling dictating their country's policy. RT is 100% correct to point out that Ukraine keeps getting ABSOLUTELY FUCKED by burger policy, and the avg. Ukroid citizen doesn't want any of this shit.
No.505631
I do love how quickly you can get seemingly "anti-war" radlibs to go full fucking hawk with just some thinly veiled moralistic US propaganda.
They never, ever learn their lessons, they did the same with Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq etc they cry about now how bad US imperialism is, but they cheer for it every single moment into the next conflict because "this time it's different"
Subs like r/LabourUK, r/Unitedkingdom, r/Worldnews, r/moderatepolitics etc are fucking glow central rn.
Your average Radlib atm is literally full Neocon. Hell has frozen over because even your typical US Hawk Realpolitik IR experts are like "wtf" over NATO moves and rhetoric on the current situation.
No.505632
>>505631There's a (D) next to the POTUS' name. The time for peace talks is over.
No.505635
>>505634So did they get Turkey in on this this time or what?
No.505636
>>505631Of all ideologies forcefully perpetuated, spontaneously reproduced, and floating around largely unnoticed, moralism has the strongest hold of the wast majority of citizens of bourgeois states. The reason it has such a firm clutch on us is that it is supported by four different ideological apparatuses at the same time, which reinforce and inform each other:
1. The legal system
2. The family
3. The media
4. Religion
Without going into too much detail, the legal system introduces the ideal and the criminal citizen, the nuclear family constrains your worldview and inherits you your parents' morality, the media constantly spoon-feeds you the same dozen moral dilemmas and their solutions even in the most seemingly innocuous shows (what if told you that for example pretty much all sitcoms like The Simpsons and Family Guy are all morality plays?), and religion (and I'm counting here secularized religions as well like humanism) just repetitively drills into your head obedience to a dead moral code that nobody abides by, in reality just showing you the socially acceptable forms of moral transgression, which is to say all of the elements of this symphony produce stupidity and evil presented as cleverness and goodness.
What really happens when somebody hits the switch that has IMPERIALISM written on it and suddenly "it's on" is merely invoking your conditioned moralism which then gets massaged by rationalizations in the media to be oriented against X country and then "Thou shall not kill" shows its true colors when its unpronounced "…without good reason" receives the actual emphasis, your lizard brain invokes your good family values and those "other people" suddenly seem like holding the exact opposite ones, and then the international laws (what a joke) gives the final green light.
So to answer to this part:
>They never, ever learn their lessons– the case is actually the opposite. They DID learn their lesson. They were good students, good sons and daughters, outstanding citizens, conscientious media consumers, good Christians and humanists all along. And when a few people here and there, some libertarians, few liberals, socdems, Christians actually go "wtf, I don't want war"
they are the bad students, sons and daughters, etc. because they took the letter of morality literally, they understood "Thou shall not kill" at face value, naively, which is to say they didn't learn the prime lessons of cynicism, relativism, inauthenticity, self-debasement, and unquestioning obedience.
And moralism dominates the entirety of the lives of the average citizen. 90% of people become interested in politics due to moralism, and continue to see politics through the ideological lens of morality to the end, which is the perfect trap of never having the capacity to enact any systemic change, and to let the 10% hold all power in their political parties, who, turns out, were the grade A students all along, because they see through the charade, and use the given ideological apparatuses to their personal and class advantage. And moralism is in consumption – just think about Karens and insisting on what they "deserve". And moralism seeped into the most intimate parts of our lives, people live joyless marriages, because that's what's "moral".
and sho and and shniff my gott
No.505639
Is the German government really be willing to kill their economy and economic connection to Eurasia over the wishes of the Burger government? Why can't patriotic Germans fight for national sovereignty against the American occupiers?
No.505640
>>505639The germans won't get rid of North Stream 2. They need both the Eurasian economic connections and the Transatlantic military protection, so they'll just pussyfoot around the issue giving more or less definitive statements until this whole thing blows over.
Also, remember that Germanies ruling party sees North Stream II as their "thing", so I doubt they'll drop it.
No.505642
>>505640But if they keep pussyfooting around eventually Washington will put its foot down and the Germans will have to take a clear and decisive stance.
No.505643
>>505642I wouldn't expect any heroic sacrifices from the party that killed Rosa.
No.505644
>>505642>But if they keep pussyfooting around eventually Washington will put its foot down and the Germans will have to take a clear and decisive stance.They'll be pussyfooting around making a clear and decisive stance then.
>>505643>I wouldn't expect any heroic sacrificesIf the US can't find a cost competitive energy substitute for Russian gas, they'd be the ones demanding the sacrifice from the Germans.
No.505645
Reminder to all of you that if it's necessary, Germany will cuck out because all NATO countries are literal vassals to the US.
Reminder that Japan (not a NATO member, but the point still stands) killed it's economy in order to not be so menacing towards the US.
No.505646
Nothing is going to happen.
No.505647
>>505646Very much have already happened, jackass.
No.505649
>>505647Not really, it'll be the same fake drama and a magic deal will be arranged. Already got cretins like Macron talking about how "mighty noble Russia needs to be respected".
No.505650
>>505441Rounding out this trifecta of "Dear God, they might actually bring the draft back." Fears, here's a document from a school of army studies basically saying "Yeah we'll probably need to bring back the draft if the working class doesn't want to fight for globalization."
https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4013coll3/id/4242/rec/30pg. 27 they pretty much out and out say it.
No.505651
>>505592>Cheering on the Taliban lol
No.505652
>>505650Americans, how do uou feel getting drafted along your zoomer generation to die for Ukraine?
No.505653
>>505652I wont die for Ukraine. Period.
No.505654
>>505652I'll sooner defect and fight in a communist militia for the DNR and LNR than fight for the Banderite dogs who killed members of my extended family in the Wolyn-Galicia massacres.
No.505655
>>505652>>505654Ya. I don't know what any of that means. But I refuse to bleed for America, Ukraine, or anything NATO affiliated.
No.505656
>>505652How do they expect a draft to succeed in the first place? I don't see a scenario where there isn't mass resistance in the streets over this. Many Americans aren't ready to abandon their bourgeois lifestyles.
No.505657
>>505650The last time the USA had that was in Vietnam when it came closest to revolution since the 1930s.
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/Vietnam/heinl.html No.505658
This is gonna be the biggest nothingburger in the 21st century, mark my words. Same with Taiwan.
No.505659
>>505656Honestly I've just sort of come to expect that the ruling class is woefully out of touch. Like, you've got Biden and Dianne Feinstein who both probably have Dementia. Senators have shat themselves in the middle of press conferences. You've got upper-middle class types who are honestly confused and stunned by Trumpists because from their perspective the economy is
great! Why, just look at their stocks! Why are all these fucking plumbers and electricians and interns and service workers so angry?
Point being it really wouldn't shock me if they think people will just have to go along with it. Or that the protests would dissipate immediately. I could see some geriatric fucks in Congress thinking "Now this'll toughen those lazy millennials/zoomers up!" Rather than the reality of this being a country that's done nothing for us now demanding we go fight and die for no reason.
No.505660
>>505659>You've got upper-middle class types who are honestly confused and stunned by Trumpists because from their perspective the economy is great! Why, just look at their stocks! Why are all these fucking plumbers and electricians and interns and service workers so angry?Oh goodness, do you really think that Trumpfags are just a bunch of heckin' poor brainwashed proles going against their own interests?
No.505661
>>505660 (me)
To elaborate, I do agree that for the mostly Democratic "PMC" section of the upper-middle class, things are going pretty well, and for the mostly-Trump supporting small business section of the upper-middle class, things are not going well with COVID; however I do not feel bad for,
and in fact enjoy seeing their demise.
No.505662
>>505660Hardly; all the data shows that his increase in working class votes were insignificant.
However my point was that the upper-middle class is completely segregated from the anger afflicting local petite-bourgeois and actual proles. My point wasn't that interns and service workers were Trumpists (I'm a service worker myself) but that if you're in the narrow category of upper-middle-class "professionals" or people who've benefited from the knowledge economy, you simply can't conceive of the anger driving people "below" you on the socio-economic hierarchy.
I mean for their faults, the petite-bourgeois that make up Trump's base are more or less tied to their communities, to their towns, to their locales. They may go on a vacation to the Grand Canyon but they're not cruising around Indonesia enough to consider themselves a "global citizen" like some cosmopolitan coastal types do. They drift towards Nationalism because they see their towns in the midst of opioid epidemics and just the general havoc wrought by globalization.
No.505663
>>505662And to add onto this, proles such as myself, we just don't have any fucking options. Even by attending college we might find ourselves in what I'd term a "post-collegiate paradox" where we get our degrees but job offers still are barely better if not
worse than what we're making currently. They expect years of experience for entry level positions, so on. Some upper-middle class midwit might just think "Well take a course on programming to make yourself more valuable!" But they don't even understand how difficult that is to manage when you're trying to pay off debts, bills, rent,
and work multiple jobs to survive.
No.505664
>>505646>>505649>>505658This. Anybody who believes in the Hapooner "World War 3" fantasies is a imbecile (most likely a Dengist and/or Duginist who believes in the Orientalist Qanon narrative that the "Traditional East" is in a cosmic struggle with "Decedent West") that doesn't understand the integration of all countries into the Global Imperialist-Capitalist System and the fact that Inter-Imperialist conflicts in the 21st century are only used to corral the Proles at home with Jingoistic Nationalism and to force the Periphery countries to be exploited by the Imperialist Powers.
No.505665
.
@StateDept
has issued an updated advisory warning Americans against traveling to Ukraine & telling those in country to depart now.
It notes that "the U.S. government will not be able to evacuate U.S. citizens in the event of Russian military action anywhere in Ukraine."
https://twitter.com/jmhansler/status/1491905435024121857?s=20&t=-i0e8gJ8R1rp9ehzszWL-w No.505666
>>505664Your version of "both sides bad" dogshit is the least intelligent one I have heard.
No.505670
>>505565Even the arab minorities were happy to see Russia helping the independence of those territories, I remember. West journous peddled them in the west, and later on multiple polls adressed the majority (+90%) of them were happy.
No.505671
>>505565>"activists"Great job at tackling pro-Western forces, mate.
No.505672
>>505664Not a single Dengist wants this war. It’s entirely NATO fags
No.505673
Has anyone looked into acquisitions of Ukrainian business by foreigners? I heard this crisis was manufactured by the west to crash the price of Ukrainian assets so they could be purchased cheaply.
No.505674
>>505664Always the retard king schizo can't grasp how important Russia is against imperialism. If it weren't for Russia, Syria would fall. The exact moment Russia intervened, the Syrian government could not only avoid their demise (Damascus was sieged in the worst moment before the Russian intervention), they retook control of almost every lost territory, and they are only stopped now because they would be attacking imperial countries that Russia can't hold.
Is Ba'athism not socialist? just because is islamic? or just because they are "brown"? just confess you are a racist and chauvinistic retarded person, and everyone will understand.
No.505675
>>505673It is one of the many theories behind this rampant hysteria from the anglos (U.S./U.K.). One of those that doesn't sound pulled out the ass hair.
No.505676
>>505674Russia is an imperialist state and Syria is one of their subjects. Just like America is an imperialist state and Saudi Arabia is one of their subjects. Russia wants to imperialize Ukraine while Ukraine wants to imperialize the Donbass Republics. Both sides are under the influence of capital interests like World War 1 and you're the retard for not figuring this out.
No.505677
>>505676>their subjectsRussia's preferred pronoun is "her", in fact that's the preferred pronoun of all countries.
No.505678
>>505674Capitalist countries by definition cannot be Anti-Imperialist, and according to the Leninist definition, Imperialism is when Core countries export Capital to Periphery countries in order to extract their natural resources and exploit their cheap labor so they can bring Surplus Value back to to their Monopolistic Corporations, not when you oppose U$ foreign policy. In reality, the Syrian Intervention was a classic example of modern Russian Imperialism as they launched airstrikes in order to keep the Comprador Assad in power in exchange for Gazprom gaining exclusive rights to Gas fields under Syrian government control, just like what the U$ did in Operation Desert Storm (restore the Comprador Kuwaiti monarchy in order to maintain Exxon-Mobils control of Kuwaiti Oil fields). Finally, any description of Baathism as "Socialist" is quite absurd as the ideology is basically Fascism with Arab characteristics.
No.505679
>>505676Except NATO is the aggressor, they've been trying to starve out the Russian people since 1991 and both sides have nukes.
Russia literally cannot defend itself with its conventional forces against the full might of NATO, especially not if Ukraine is a member right on its borders.
Putin knows the dangers of appeasement, of letting Hitler have "just one more country" to annex and hoping he'll leave you alone. He knows strategy and geopolitics.
>One ought never to allow a disorder to take place in order to avoid war, for war is not thereby avoided, but only deferred to your disadvantage. No.505680
>>505679NATO literally cannot invade Russia unless all their nukes somehow disappear
No.505681
>>505679No, you don't get it. Both sides are aggressors and have imperialist intentions. NATO vs. Russia isn't much different than the Allies vs. Central Powers in World War 1.
No.505682
>>505678Russia is not a core country you fucking retard you don't even read what you shitpost and pretend like you understand what you read. Not even Western observers believe that Russian went to Syria for gas. Pants on head retarded as usual you fucking namefag. Russia has even written off debt that Syria owed to them in the past before the war even started. Kill yourself.
No.505683
>>505681So standard imperialists vs. genocidal hegemonic imperialists? I'll take the former as the lesser evil.
And no, if Russia were to have a revolution tomorrow and Putin and his oligarch cronies were strung up in Red Square, the new red army would have the same interests in blocking western imperialism from encroaching on its borders just as it did in 1918.
Nice to see an anarkiddie simping for expansionist hegemony pushing for CIA interests in a worthless country that will lead directly to nuclear war, though.
No.505684
>>505676>Russia is an imperialist state and Syria is one of their subjects>imperialism is when you stop imerpialism, the more imperialism you stop, the more imperialist you are, and when a whole bunch of imperialism is stopped, that's what called super imperialism!> Just like AmericaAmerica doesn't send the Moscow Philarmonic to Syria to play and sing operas in Damascus so people can cope with the destruction of their land in meaningful ways.
>and Saudi Arabia is one of their subjectsExcept Syria do have control of their own sovereignty with Russia co-operation, sak does not have that.
>Russia wants to imperialize UkraineThe whole fucking time Russia political ruling class has said they don't want to invade
>inb4 muh 5d chessis not like ukraine is already highly dependent on Russia's economy/energy. Retarded take.
>Both sides are under the influence of capital interests like World War 1Hollly false equivalent argument pulled out of your ass.
>you're the retard for not figuring this out.Whatcha gonna do to save Syria if Russia falls tomorrow,
huh?
nothing? then STFU.
>Capitalist countries by definition cannot be Anti-Imperialistlol USSR under NEP surely was imperialist, then.
>Imperialism is when Core countries export Capital to Periphery countriesI already gave examples on how Russia lost giant quantities of money due to Venezuelan sanctions and had to step down rosneft operations, DESPITE the puppet guaidon't told Russia they can be best buddies if they let down Maduro. Your take is moronic. Yes, capitalists are not our friends, but not all capitalism is on the same degree, and that was shownn in Syria.
>the Syrian Intervention was a classic example of modern Russian ImperialismLLOOOOOOOLLL the Syrian government
INVITED Russia lmao, was the USSR imperialist when they intervened in Afghanistan and killed Amin because other communists invited the USSR?
>keep the Comprador AssadThere you are, to you ba-ahtism is not socialist, fucking racist expoltard.
>is quite absurd as the ideology is basically Fascism with Arab characteristics.>reeeee my interpretation in my head about socialism, despite I haven't done my socialist revolution, is correct, and deviations are fascism reeeeeFucking Christ take a book on Syrian ba'athism, libgen has tons of them.
No.505685
>>505682They are a Semi-Periphery country that exports Capital to Periphery countries in order to extract their natural resources and exploit their cheap labor so they can bring Surplus Value back to to their Monopolistic Corporations, which still meets the definition of Imperialism.
No.505686
>>505685You were given countless times examples of them not being imerperialistic. Give one example, with link how they exploit Syria. Go on, retarded namefag piece of shit.
No.505687
>>505684I'm sorry but when Capitalist countries launch military interventions to keep their Comprador puppets in power so they can have their Corporations continue exploiting their resources, that is not "Anti-Imperialism", it is literally Imperialism according to Lenin himself. Also, an ideology that promotes a One-Party state combined with a "Corporatist" variety of Capitalism and a massive dose of Bourgeois Nationalism is blatantly Fascist.
No.505688
>>505687>I'm sorry but when Capitalist countries launch military interventions to keep their Comprador puppets in power so they can have their Corporations continue exploiting their resources, that is not "Anti-Imperialism"
No, no, no, don't condescend sorry shit on me. If Richard Merhudst, a based
SYRIAN antiimperialist appreciates Russia, I don't want fucking condescending shit on a retarded racist armchair.
>it is literally Imperialism according to Lenin himselfThis was already discussed and even Putin himself said he would take back the USSR, and stop its dissolution, if it was possible for him to go back in time and have the power.
>an ideology that promotes a One-Party state combined with a "Corporatist" variety of Capitalism and a massive dose of Bourgeois Nationalism is blatantly FascistOh yeah, Lenin was a fascist for using the NEP lmao.
No.505689
>>505683>Imperialism is good only when muh heckin based eastern countries do it. If you don't agree with me, you're a CIA shill that wants nuclear war!!!Hey listen dumbshit, fuck ALL imperialism and warmongering whether western or eastern. It seems like you folks are unable to grasp this simple concept.
No.505691
>>505688If you want to understand why I view Baathism (along with Dengism, Eurasianism/Duginism, National Bolshevism, etc.) as a form of Fascism, read this highly informative link to an article from Massline.org articulating the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist conception of Fascism
http://www.massline.org/Politics/ScottH/Fascism-MLM-Conception.pdf .
No.505692
>>505691>I believe what my cult says, I have no independent thinking abilityYou definitely embody the american mindset well, stupid and oblivious to your own stupidity.
No.505693
>>505691lol and not one single of them is mentioned in the .PDF. JFK.
Syria government has fought alongside communists in Syria to retake control, with the Russians, to stop western imperialism. Fascists never collaborated hand to hand with communists on a military front.
No.505694
>>505692Can you at least have an open mind and read the article I linked before you shit on it? Also, its very hypocritical for Dengists to call Maoism a "Cult", when their ideology is essentially a Orientalist version of Qanon (with Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin taking on the "savior" role of Trump and Trump taking on the "secret helper" role of "Q", while the "Decadent Western Imperialists" take on the role of the "Global Pedophile Cabal" and the "Based Eastern Imperialists" take on the role of the "Real American Patriots"), LOL
No.505695
>>505694I read the article, which is how I know you're a retarded schizo cultist.
No.505696
>>505693The article clearly states that Dengist China (and all other Revisionist states) is a Fascist country, and that any Capitalist state that is not a Bourgeois Democracy is by definition Fascist (Baathist Syria would blatantly fall under this category).
No.505698
>>505695May you please cite statements from the article that are "retarded", "schizo", or "cultist", LOL?
No.505699
>>505698I was talking about you not the article, retard.
No.505700
>>505697Calling everything a cult is a glowie tactic
No.505701
>>505699But you said me linking the article was evidence that I was all of those things, so what in the article do you disapprove of so strongly?
No.505702
>>505701You're posting apologia for bourgeois democracy. Not surprising from a retard who thinks voting for biden accomplishes anything. Proof of your burgerfied brain.
No.505703
>>505617Do they do song covers do you guys think?
Do you guy's think there's like an Azov official Ukranian cover of Erika and the Horst-Wessel song floating around on Ukrainian internet?
No.505704
>>505683>And no, if Russia were to have a revolution tomorrow and Putin and his oligarch cronies were strung up in Red Square, the new red army would have the same interests in blocking western imperialism from encroaching on its borders just as it did in 1918.This part was so supremely retarded it took me 5 minutes to attempt to reconstruct what your point was.
<You know what putin is doing?<Defending his borders.<You know where his borders are located?<Russia.<You know what else was located in Russia?<The Soviet Union.<You know what they did?<Defended their borders.<You know what that means?<Putin = Communist.<Checkmate, imperialists. No.505705
>Both Russia and Ukraine.
>"We literally aren't declaring war on each other. Russia only moved it's army because NATO is schizing out."
<"…"
>"We need to invade ukraine incase Russia invades ukraine"
No.505706
>>505702What in the article is "apologia for bourgeois democracy", LOL?
No.505708
>>505707The article explicitly states this about Dengist China,
"There are also some regimes, such as present-day capitalist China, which must be considered to be a relative “soft” form of fascism as compared with Germany and Italy in the 1930s. There are of course very tight laws restricting the democratic rights of the masses, including the working class, as well as constant attempts to imbue them with the ruling class‟s ideology. But for the most part the workers and masses are left pretty much alone to think as they wish until they actually protest publicly or try to change society in their own interests. Nevertheless contemporary China is a clear example of fascism, as far as the basic Marxist conception is concerned. Revolutionaries are arrested and imprisoned, and sometimes tortured or executed, and no revolutionary organizations or publications are allowed. Moreover, it would still be fascism there even if the bourgeois rulers were to allow contested elections (as they sometimes already do on the local level), as long as the democratic rights of free speech, a free press, assembly, protest, and organization among the workers and peasants to advance their own interests were still prohibited."
No.505709
>>505708>There are also some regimes, such as present-day capitalist ChinaExcept this is not "dengist" China, you retard. "Dengism" is a term that died with Deng, because with his death, a series of leaders rolled out different reforms to those reforms. and Modern's day China is not even close to what Deng had because now we see more state control not seen in Deng's era.
And if you want to talk about Deng's reforms, the fact that Mao attacked the USSR and for that fact decided to ally with the U.S., you should praise Deng for following the same exact policies that were taken because he saw the USSR as "social imperialism".
lmao retarded shit. instead of forming a guerrilla with popular support, like Mao in his based moments, you prefer to hear reasonings from a lolnoone (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_line, where the fuck are these guys? in loldead places of revolutionary processes, mobilizing farts) who hasn't achieved a socialist revolution talking precisely when Mao decided to be an utter retard.
Everything that doesn't adjust to my ideology is revisionist, ergo a fascist. LOL.
What ones have to read in l/pol/ from namefags.
No.505712
>>505711By that logic, socialism with chinese characteristics is better than western neoliberal capitalism.
No.505713
>>505712in the analogy, neoliberalism is the shit-eating, chimp-brain.
No.505715
>>505714So you retract your previous assertion that the text was shilling bourgeois democracies? Ok then.
No.505716
>>505710If you read the article you would understand that it is stating that both Liberalism and Fascism are Dictatorships of the Proletariat, but that “Fascism is the open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, most imperialist elements of finance capital” and thus materially worse for the Proletariat. The article also states that the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist position is that Revisionism in power is Fascism, as exemplified by Khrushchevism and Dengism.
No.505718
>>505716>If you read the article you would understand that it is stating that both Liberalism and Fascism are Dictatorships of the Proletariat<Liberalism and Fascism are Dictatorships of the ProletariatMaybe I was wrong about you being a schizo, you might just be a bot.
No.505719
>>740243
So retard schizo or bot.
No.505722
>>505718I'm so sorry for that embarrassing typo, I meant "Dictatorships of the Bourgeoisie", LOL. I must be getting tired (My Laptop is running out of battery life anyway), LMAO.
No.505723
>>505722Apology rejected.
No.505724
>>505721I wonder how he would react if you changed it from Canadian truckers to Kazakh oilriggers…
No.505725
>>505724He would then call it "Le Ebil CIA plot" like the good little Deng beetle he is, LOL.
No.505727
>>505726It is related because the same people who believe Dengist China is "Socialist" are in this thread portraying Putinist Russia as equivalent to the USSR (when it is the Bourgeois Dictatorship that emerged from the Revisionist clique that destroyed the USSR), and using this to manipulate Communists into taking sides in Inter-Imperialist Conflicts like the Ukraine situation.
No.505729
>>505664This is the same thing that social democrats were saying before WW1.
War is a need for capitalism anon, it's out of their control, they simply NEED to do it.
Read this:
https://grossmanite.medium.com/socialism-or-extinction-decaying-capitalism-driving-humanity-towards-potentially-nuclear-third-8586d4ed9c3e No.505730
>>505727Anyone who's actually in danger of picking sides without any context or understanding, as in believing that Putin = Stalin 2.0 and China = moneyless, classless society just because they each have tensions with the West is not old enough to be on this site.
No.505732
>>505730Some people are legally adults but are still retards
No.505733
>>505730I don't think Putin (nor Xi IMHO) are the champions of the socialist cause worldwide, but I can see a good deal of merit in the reasoning of anons ITT for wanting Russia to BTFO the Us.
In this precise moment it would be historically progressive.
Also stop making strawman its unbearable.
No.505734
>>505729I’ll give the guy who wrote this article credit for at least trying to have a substantive (though highly flawed) argument and for at least being smart enough to realize that Dengist China is a Capitalist and Imperialist state. However, I cannot ignore three critical flaws in his thesis.
Firstly, the fact that the integration of all Imperialist Countries into the same Global Supply Chains is a major deterrent against World War 3 that didn’t exist during the last two (I get their was trade between all the Imperialist powers before World War 1 but the British Empire didn’t outsource all their production to Imperial Germany). A prominent example of this is how would Silicon Valley and Wall Street allow the U$ to go to war with Dengist China when all of their factories (that produce trillions of dollars in Surplus value) are their?
Secondly, even if I’m wrong and World War 3 did break out for some strange reason, I highly doubt the authors (rather alarmist) assumption that it would be a Nuclear War. The reasons for this are rather obvious, being that though I don’t believe it would cause Human extinction (the “Nuclear Winter” theory was a bit sensationalist and the U$ and Russian arsenals have significantly reduced in numbers and yield since the end of the Cold War), a Global Nuclear exchange between the Imperialist powers (the U$, Russia, China, etc.) could easily collapse Industrial Civilizations and thus remove the material basis for the Global Capitalist-Imperialist system itself, thus making it nearly impossible that the leadership of the Imperialist powers would ever let this occur (the refusal of both sides in World War 2 to use Chemical Weapons is a good historical precedent for this cautious behavior).
The third, final, and arguably most critical flaw I see in his Thesis is his failure to imagine the dark side of Automation. According to him the 4th Industrial Revolution is going to bring the rate of profit to zero and magically destroy the Global Imperialist-Capitalist System and usher in a Global Communist Utopia. However, what if due to World War 3 never happening, Climate change remaining a gradual, long term process, that only Scientists notice, the collapse of the Socialist bloc, and the constant bombardment of Capitalist propaganda (particularly in the form of Western Pop culture) on the psyche of theProletariat worldwide, the Revolution never happens, and Socialism remains a forgotten dream and lost hope of the oppressed, with the Proletariat made redundant by the 4th Industrial Revolution and condemned to slowly wither away and die out in a futuristic Dystopian Cyberpunk society where Capitalism truly is the “End of History” and the Bourgeoisie achieve Immortality through Transhumanism, making some even wonder if they were truly the “Revolutionary” Class all along?
No.505736
Reminder: NOTHINGBURGER!
No.505739
burger logic like the invading iraq to bring freedum shit
No.505742
>>505741>send thousands of tons of military equipment to the totally legitimate ukrainian government>it somehow ends up in the hands of the totally unaffiliated fascist paramilitaries>russia withdraws troops from the border, but repeats troop buildups over time, increasing the weapons tonnage>fascists sperg out and kilotons of weapons start going off across the countryWhat's the odds on this happening?
No.505744
>>505743>occupation authoritiesThank you unbiased media
No.505745
>>505740Well yeah that's how it's done, like the NED funding shit isn't an indication of direct US government support, so when a state lets private groups operate in its territory against foreign actors doing paramilitary or hacking shit it's called indirect.
No.505746
>>505743That is a provocation though
No.505747
>>505721What a fucking moron
No.505748
Ex-Russian separatists on whether another Ukraine war is possible
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/10/ex-russian-separatists-on-whether-another-ukraine-war-is-possible
>Men who left Russia in 2014 to join rebels in eastern Ukraine have differing views on where today’s conflict is headed. No.505749
>>505704impressive lack of reading comprehension. or mb you just want to strawman.
<You know what putin is doing?<Defending his borders.<and if it was a socialist state<you obviously would approve of them defending themselvessee we just proved you dont care what they do, you will blame them even when theyre doing basic self defense action even a socialist state would do
your strawmaning is just the mark of your stupidity and hypocrisy, cause you have 0 actual arguments
No.505753
>>505733>>505732>>505731Yes, the strawman is actually what the namefag's side is claiming. No one is really doing that, because it's ridiculous and childish and binary-brained.
No.505755
RUSSIA'S FOREIGN MINISTRY SAYS CAN NOT ACCEPT EU AND NATO RESPONSE TO LETTER BY LAVROV(Not sensationalism, just reporting it in all caps as the tweet was written)
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1492106722386792450?s=20&t=D8RkbAlQoWV7DwCyy6r63Q No.505757
After Zhirinovsky, Russian Communist leader Gennady Zyuganov has been also hospitalizedhttps://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1492135505970008068?s=20&t=D8RkbAlQoWV7DwCyy6r63QHere's to him being replaced with someone less cucked.
No.505760
>>505759The Russians are trying to sap his precious bodily fluids
No.505761
Word on the street is that Russia has stopped coal and gas imports into Ukraine, and so Ukraine is getting all its nuclear reactors up and running in preparation for severing their grids at the end of the month.
No.505763
>Russian military exercises being duplicitously interpreted as a prelude to invasion
Do they take me for a fool? Never in all of history has an invading force telegraphed its invasion plans by staging exercises in view of the enemy, thereby completely destroying the element of surprise and allowing them to prepare their defenses.
This is all performative posturing, theatrics. Russia's attempt to throw its weight around and show the world that it has power and can defy the west.
No.505765
>>505763Someone pointed out that an actual prelude to invasion would entail staging support services nearby in anticipation of casualties, that the US had medical ships in place months before the invasion of Iraq
No.505767
>>505765Makes sense. This is just not how you plan a genuine invasion. Sitting there for months thinking about it, allowing your enemy to establish a solid defensive perimeter and shore up supplies and armaments and strengthen its contacts with allies. Such ritualized preparations are just an intimidation tactic.
No.505768
>>505757Vlasovites bumping off potential dissent?
No.505769
>>505757The decision on planned hospitalization was made in connection with the current epidemiological situation, as well as due to surgical medical interventions carried over in recent years, Yushchenko explained.
“From yesterday and, I think, until the beginning of next week, this will be a planned hospitalization, which is designed to prevent any difficult situations in this difficult epidemiological time,” the spokesman said.
According to Yushchenko, now Zyuganov feels great and is busy with the current party work. His words were also confirmed by the first deputy chairman of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Yuri Afonin, who noted that the party leader is in good health and mood.
https://then24.com/2022/02/11/zyuganov-was-hospitalized-in-the-moscow-central-clinical-hospital/ No.505770
>>505734Does anyone want to respond (respectfully and intellectually) to my in depth critique of the article posted by FSLN anon?
No.505771
>>505729Yeah war against the proletariat.
No.505772
>>505770Sorry, but I can't take you seriously.
No.505773
>>505767It can either mean:
1. Russia is just flexing and trying to intimidate the west and send a message. It has no plans to launch a politically and economically costly full scale invasion
2. Russia is on the fence about invading and has not abandoned the prospect of a diplomatic solution. But they still want to put their cards on the table and back up their case with a display of its military capabilities.
3. Despite strategic abnormalities Russia is planning a genuine invasion and is so confident in its advantageous position that it does not attempt to prepare in subterfuge.
No.505774
>>505772Did you at least read my in depth critique of the article FSLN anon linked?
No.505775
>>505774i read the post and found your tendency to slip into nick landian speculation to be typical of your ilk
No.505776
>>505773>so confident in its advantageous position that it does not attempt to prepare in subterfugeThis only happens in movies. Even the US after building up an overwhelmingly advantage in the lead up to the Gulf War did not telegraph what they were going to do and managed to achieve operational surprise when the ground operation unfolded.
No.505777
>>505775The reason I did that (I personally feel Nick Land and his NRx degenerates are Vile, Misanthropic, pieces of shit, but it is important to take note of these seemingly “delusional” concepts because they have a massive impact on the thinking of the 21st century Bourgeoisie, particularly Silicon Valley, and to ignore what are Class enemies are planning is suicidal) was because I feel it is important to illustrate the dark side of Automation (particularly the 4th Industrial Revolution) in a Capitalist society, which the Author seemed to ignore by imagining that it would inevitably lead to a Socialist Revolution, despite the fact that their are more obstacles to this (especially in the Imperial Core) then people want to imagine, and the more likely scenario is the Dystopia that I alluded to.
No.505778
>>505777>the dark side of AutomationThere is no such a thing. Automation drives down the rate of profit, makes capitalism even more unstable, and gets us closer to liberation.
No.505779
>>505770no because you're not worth the time
No.505780
>>505763>Never in all of history has an invading force telegraphed its invasion plans by staging exercises in view of the enemyI don't want to be pedantic but you're wrong there because it did happen, Japan did in fact do that and this is for this exact reason that the second Sino Japanese war began, and this is a major conflict leading up to world war two.
No.505781
>>505780Japan staged various incidents and hardly hid its expansion
No.505784
>>505749wtf? you think i should approve of a capitalist state defending itself? where the fuck do you think we are? i want to see all capitalist states go down in flames. you truly are a higher tier of retard.
No.505786
>>505785False flag executed. Beginning the nuclear code sequence…
No.505787
>>505777Automation will change completely our lives from top to bottom.
Its very possible that will end badly, but it must also be acknowledged that it provides a chance for socialists.
No.505788
>>505785I hope if they do it, they have the decency to start on a weekend. I'd rather get nuked at home than at work.
No.505789
>>505770Why would someone take you seriously if I gave you an extended critique in your article from LOLNOONE like
http://www.massline.info/mlms/mlms.htmHis retarded takes comes in many flavors:
http://www.massline.info/rcp/expel/>The highly deficient sort of top-down socialism which was originally established in the DPRK was—if anything—a more extreme form of the bureaucratic type of socialism which existed in the Soviet Union in the Stalin era. Since—as in the USSR—the DPRK regime did not know or use the mass line in politics, industry or agriculture, this type of society tended to soon become more and more undemocratic and authoritarian. Over the years it has degenerated totally away from anything which can be remotely considered as genuine “socialism” (which, after all, must most essentially be based on the rule of the people themselves). The DPRK is now best characterized as an ultra-nationalistic form of state capitalism, directed by a tiny militarily-obsessed elite social class, and for the primary benefit of that very privileged governing class. Even more absurdly, this DPRK ruling class has turned its regime into one which is very close to a hereditary absolute monarchy, which was ruled first by Kim Il Sung, then by his son Kim Jong Il, and now by his son, Kim Jong Un.<PURE CRAPPISTAN FROM THIS MORON.And the silly idea that Maoists like you and him, decide to rebrand what fascism is taking in count revisionism, starting from the "social imperialism" theory that Mao brought, tells me that you suffer a severe cognitive dissonace.
In that exact theory Mao in which he says "social imperialism" also said that the USS "will end the world with nukes", 20 years later, the USSR dissolved, and the nukes never arrived. And if a huge chunk of that speech in which it is the "social imperialism" theory is utter nonsense (there were three theories together: third world theory, social imperialism theory, and the USSR nuking the world theory) what makes you believe the rest of his speech isn't also utter nonsense. And that "social imperialism" is the starting point of "Scott H." who can easily be CIA H.
As I said, and you
didn't reply instead of taking the years where Mao was based as an example like going and forming a guerrilla with popular support, Maoists like you prefer to take the weirdest time of Mao.
Krushit was a moron stopping the projects with China, and that caused Mao to be like this? 100% correct. Is it correct for Mao to be this way? lol no. His main defect is that he never could understand other's material conditions after WWII.
So, no. Russia is not a "fascist" state, China is not a "fascists" state, Nicaragua is not a "fascist" state, Bolivia is not a "fascist" state, Cuba is not a "fascists" state, and that "anti revisionist" shit has become more like pure virtue signaling among psudo-communists that are armchairing their revolutions, like you, king schizo.
t -minusban for being too off-topic No.505790
>>505789 (me)
This is from where he defines DPKR:
http://www.massline.org/Dictionary/DE.htm#DPRK>>The highly deficient sort of top-down socialism which was originally established in the DPRK was—if anything—a more extreme form of the bureaucratic type of socialism which existed in the Soviet Union in the Stalin era. Since—as in the USSR—the DPRK regime did not know or use the mass line in politics, industry or agriculture, this type of society tended to soon become more and more undemocratic and authoritarian. Over the years it has degenerated totally away from anything which can be remotely considered as genuine “socialism” (which, after all, must most essentially be based on the rule of the people themselves). The DPRK is now best characterized as an ultra-nationalistic form of state capitalism, directed by a tiny militarily-obsessed elite social class, and for the primary benefit of that very privileged governing class. Even more absurdly, this DPRK ruling class has turned its regime into one which is very close to a hereditary absolute monarchy, which was ruled first by Kim Il Sung, then by his son Kim Jong Il, and now by his son, Kim Jong Un.And the expel link is funny at best.
No.505791
<China accuses the U.S. of fabricating and waging a crisis, manipulating Ukraine, to control Europe.
Unique IPs: 202