No.576140
fuck euro war, who cares
No.576141
Is there anywhere I can donate to the Russian world effort?
No.576142
>>576141You could always go over and volunteer.
No.576143
>>576141https://kcpn.info/help/probably not a good idea unless it's in bitcoin though
No.576145
>>576141some of the pro Russian telegrams will probably point you in the right direction
No.576146
>>576143Bitcoin isn't secure I've heard monero is moreso though
No.576150
>>576144>grainy>black-and-whiteI hate idealists.
I HATE IDEALISTS!
No.576154
>>576151do these ghouls own MIC stock or something? what makes them so hard for war?
No.576155
>>576153They've been circling the drain for a year and a half, at this point it's just a matter of if Putin decides to actually finish the job before NATO steps in.
No.576158
>>576157Would be good if someone would do a chart of
Create your own corruption lever/"think thank" No.576160
>>576159A: Russia isn't communist, don't care
B: Most countries don't have open Nazis as a core part of their army, and my country isn't giving billions in military aid to them
C: Don't care
D: Of course there are some conspiracy schizos, but it's true that the western media is lying about almost everything nowadays, the western media are the ones that told us all about Ukraine's Nazi issues until 2022 (see B)
E: Ukraine was bombing the land which (mostly) desired to be part of Russia, also Ukraine doesn't have a hope in hell of winning the war so they should seek an exit from it rather than perpetuating pointless slaughter. Also my country sucks balls, no way would I fight for it, and neither would plenty of Ukrainians which is why they fled abroad.
No.576161
>>576155I'm going to guess that everyone is waiting to see how 2024, as an election year in many relevant places, is shaping the political landscape. A thing to keep in mind is that Ukraine's main utility is to keep Europe under US control and generate grievances to advance the cold war. The military stuff is probably just money changing hands by now.
>>576154Also the author:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_Rose>Gideon Rose is a former editor of Foreign Affairs and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He served as Associate Director for Near East and South Asian Affairs on the staff of the National Security Council from 1994 to 1995 under the Clinton Administrationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_RelationsAlso also:
https://swprs.org/the-american-empire-and-its-media/https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2023/06/04/15-reasons-why-mass-media-employees-act-like-propagandists/ No.576162
>>576159>Attracted to ultra-macho, racist, sexist Russian military culture>Usually homophobic>Always an asreholeNah, that fits as well.
No.576163
>>576159>deboooonking a propoganda pamphletlol lmao
No.576166
>>576159>the communistPure strawman, no one actually thinks Russia is communist, liberals are just fundamentally incapable of engaging a principled anti-imperialist position so they have to deflect with strawmen
>the lefty antifascistThere is plenty of evidence that Ukraine's state involvement with the far-right goes far beyond "just having some neo-nazi problems like any other country". Russia having "as many nazis" is a laughably and blatantly false tu quoque as Putin purged most prominent Russian nazis in the same time Ukraine was promoting them, many of them even ended up fleeing to Ukraine
>the contrarianImagine trusting Western MSM or Ukraine's state propaganda.
>the peacenikI would in fact urge surrender if the choice was between "hundreds of thousands dead and my country's economy and demography ruined forever" and "formally give up a couple of regions that we haven't had any control over for 8 years and stop bootlicking the West so hard"
No.576167
>>576159>ANobody thinks Russia is communist, nor are they "standing up for the little guy" in an altruistic sense. However their actions are shaking the US grip on global politics, which makes it easier for exploited people to assert their own power as the international bourgeoisie becomes more divided and weaker. Russia is helping the little guy essentially as a side effect of their actions.
>BUkraine is objectively a fascist country, not because it has a lot of fascists, but because fascists have much more power, and this is reflected in their policies. Fascism is best defined as the use of terroristic repression against the left to preserve the power of the ruling class. This far more accurately describes Ukraine (where virtually all socialist parties are outlawed and trade union activity is heavily restricted) than it does Russia (where communists are the largest opposition party). Not to mention the openly Nazi units incorporated into their military, or the state-sponsored veneration of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators. These types have far less influence in Russia, which is why many Russian Nazis are fighting for Ukraine.
>D Won't bother because it's not applicable.
>EThe war is NATO's fault, and most of the world sees it that way. No state would allow a military alliance dominated by a hostile, aggressive power like the US to set up a proxy government on its most vulnerable border. The US literally almost started WW3 over Cuba doing something similar. Many policy analysts in the US itself were warning that Russia would react this way as far back as the 90s, and the war could have been avoided if the US had given guarantees that they would not admit Ukraine into NATO. Russia is reacting in a predictable and rational manner, regardless of how you feel of the morality of it. If I lived in a country with a government like Ukraine's, there's no way I would take up arms to defend it. There's nothing about it worth defending.
No.576168
>>576156Would it be possible to track who actually calls for expansion of production capacity? Because my personal bias tells me, those articles come almost exclusively from random chumps and the Pentagon itself.
>“We went through six years of Stingers in 10 months,” Gregory J. Hayes, Raytheon’s chief executive, said in an interview earlier this month, referring to 1,600 of the company’s shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles sent by the U.S. government to Ukraine. “So it will take us multiple years to restock and replenish.”What the fuck are these timetables?
No.576169
>>576155>>576164im not sure why he's not using the time-tested strategy of mobilizing enough people to create a million 10-width divisions and just moving in on all fronts. russia has been autistic about just attacking from the east when it probably should have done naval invasions, parachuter cheese and an army on the north side by now
No.576170
>>576169Maybe the Land Doctrine tree is bigger than we think and has some insane bonuses at the end.
No.576171
>>576170Russia and Ukraine are both using 'desperate defense' tree
No.576172
>>576159A. is a strawman that nobody here believes (Russia isn't communist), but Russia is standing up to the hegemonic West and effectively for the little guy, whether Russia likes it or not.
B. Ukraine's issues with neo-nazis are more significant (and disqualifying) than Russia or almost any other state. Polls of randos are irrelevant to the character of the state and security forces.
D. The MSM systematically lies about Ukraine, the war and its causes and history to manipulate people into supporting the proxy war. Russia's case wrt Ukraine also has many valid points, but these all get defined as "propaganda". D is basically just exaggerating and mischaracterizing a reasonable view to discredit it,
E. first sentence is the correct position. second sentence is a non-sequitur that ignores the context and causes of the conflict, and opinions of the people who live in the "occupied land", probably none of which applies to the peacenik's country.
No.576175
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/china-ukraine-russia-peace-talks/Tldr international peace negotiations can herald the rise of a new power, in this case China. Eurasia is rising and Brzezinski predicted it as the pivotal issue. Western imperialism faces an existential challenge
No.576178
>>576159I mean all of these are about finding some kind of contradiction in a Westerner supporting Russia over Ukraine for pathological reasons. However, only one side here talks about the degeneration of a global system while the other talks about barbaric threats in its absence.
Since this is no longer the 1980s, there are a lot of Westerners willing to talk about the former. There are many different ways left or right of doing this, however what unites them is that they're just small internet fringes of a wider popular dissatisfaction, division, apathy, or what have you with liberal capitalism. The endless wars while the middle class rot is what did it imo, younger generations coming of age from the recession on are so disaffected
So of course there's a variety of Western people who no longer believe in their government's role in the world. It's just, we have to lash out at this instead of reflecting because the empire is declining.
Ukraine is polarizing because it represents bourgeois democracy degenerating into fascism. Right now either you think democracy is being rejuvenated by threats to it or you think it's degenerating into the logic of a global class dictatorship.
No.576179
>>576178>I mean all of these are about finding some kind of contradiction in a Westerner supporting Russia over Ukraine for pathological reasons.Guess patronizing people as confused or misguided isn't exclusive to idealist communists. :^)
No.576181
>>576177Literally just fly over and tell them you want to shoot hohols
No.576182
>>576141Do I get a state donated Russian gf like Jackson Hinkle if I donate
No.576184
>>576183A better death than a nazi deserves.
No.576185
>>576184 (me)
>>576183wait fuck you this is a russian hero being killed
No.576186
>>576183/k/opers trying to gorepost after what happened to their pet NATO army last week is just so pathetic lmao
like have some self respect
No.576189
>>576186Why do they do it? Do they think anyone cares?
No.576190
I heard that Ukrainians are total mobilizing Ivano-Frankovsk?
No.576191
>>576189they think posting their opposition's death will change the outcome of a war, same shit as posting Kill/Death ration tbh
No.576192
>>57619110 to 1 in the Russians favour fwiw
No.576196
>>576191What motivates people to seek out and post gore videos online? I do not understand it. Is it some sort of fetish thing?
No.576198
>>576196They feel pain from their side losing, so they deliberately seek out those who support the enemy side and try to get revenge for bad fee-fees onto them
No.576199
>>576197why waste your time in that shithole though?
No.576200
>>576199Used to be that a two years tour of duty of arguing for Communism on /pol/ was required to be an effective /leftypol/ak tankie
Should we bring this one back ?
No.576201
>>576192recently or overall?
i think things are much worse for ukraine then people generally say outloud because k/d/r posting is cringe
No.576202
>>576201During this offensive, I think overall is about 2:1 in favor of Russia but certain people are a lot more optimistic than me. That being said, the fact that Russia has had one mobilization and Ukraine has had something like 10 (albeit smaller) and are even starting to mobilize Western Ukraine should definitely tell you something
No.576203
>>576199Because "stepping outside my echochamber" (lmao) did more to entrench my beliefs than anything ever could.
No.576204
>>576202He who uses more artillery, tanks, jets, etc equipment suffers less losses and scores more kills. Historical Nazi cope of "our Aryan soldiers without equipment and support kills thousands of barbarian commies" is just that, cope.
No.576205
>>576195Wait so
1. NATO claims rockets were fired at Kiev while the African delegation was there
2. Africa claims that no such thing happened and the meeting went on as expected
3. The video evidence clearly shows the African dude in a bomb shelter
So if the video evidence is on the side of NATO, what am I to conclude here?
No.576207
>>576205The African dude in the video is clearly outside
I assume we're talking of a photo of the president?
No.576208
>>576206I really don't think pol's narratives are all that deep
No.576209
>>576206What if the beliefs being entrenched by this process are the correct ones ?
No.576210
>>576208NTA but that's why the comic said "equally
shallow counternarrative". I think they are challenging you to prove that your narrative is deep, not that /pol/'s is shallow
i haven't read the whole conversation though No.576212
>>576197>I posted on /pol/ under the commie flag for yearsself harm
>I am immune to death threats.people who self harm usually are
No.576215
>>576205>what am I to conclude here?That he was given a guided tour of a bomb shelter…
No.576216
>>576205The guy says they took the President to a bomb shelter but not him and while he was outside the bomb shelter there were no explosions. NATO also claims that the Russians shot 6 khinzal missiles (the kind that Russia has used like 3-4 times during the entire war) at Kiev during this period but there’s no evidence because they were all shot down. Now forgetting the fact that there were 0 reports of a dagger in the air at all, the Patriot is only even theoretically capable of shooting down a khinzal if they know the target and are positioned in a certain way specifically for that target (and this has again never been proven to work) but somehow they shot down six with 0 evidence. And you find this credible?
No.576218
>>576197>I posted on /pol/ under the commie flag for yearsyou take posting too seriously. this isn't a tour of duty. if you want to kill nazis go sign up to fight in your home country, ukraine.
>I am immune to death threats.yeah because they were from anonymous faggots on the other side of the planet and not from a lynch mob right outside your house
>Because "stepping outside my echochamber" (lmao) did more to entrench my beliefs than anything ever could.If you needed to talk to retarded nazis on 4chan to become an entrenched communist you're high key retarded, especially if you're working class. the benefits of communism should be obvious to you because of your material interests.
No.576219
>>576217i see lolberts post that one all the time, so some people take the punchline very seriously.
No.576220
>>576213I'm cringing, but not as much as I should have judging by my cringe when Ukrainians did
No.576221
>>576214Technically those mudpies are being produced for use value ;o)
>>576210I think that's a correct reading of their argument, however my counterargument to this is that the effect in question is real, it's part of why various religious groups such as Mormon missionaries, Jehovah's witnesses doorknock
My wager here is that communism is objectively correct and therefore the deepest there is to wit an objective understanding of reality, entrenching it is worth it on its own and therefore exploiting this effect is worthwhile as an initiation for some especially if they already understand the objective correctness of communism and need only hone their rhetorical skills in support of it in dialogue
No.576222
>>576218Tankanon causes massive seething p. 64236732234
No.576224
>>576223Tankanon causes massive seething p. 64236732235
No.576226
>>576225Tankanon causes massive seething p. 64236732235
>>576224>>576222>>576221 No.576231
>>576226>>576228>>576230Is this why mods had a banning spree?
No.576232
>>576231>mod(s)it was just m00dy going ape shit, read the logs
No.576233
>>576232always the same person eh
No.576234
>>576232What I am saying is, let's not be like that, ok?
No.576235
>>576210I'm pretty sure that they are saying a single narrative is an incomplete description of the world which consists of different competing narratives that come from different perspectives. Its kind of like ethics in that which narrative is important to you is subjective and determined by what ends you are investigating.
So “the history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles” is false as a universal proposition because there are different perspectives on history. If you are not interested in changing the way things are then class struggle wont be important to you and history could be about your favorite books and movies instead.
The hidden assumption is that allowing a single narrative to dominate your perspective(such as being committed to human emancipation) leads to a "totalitarian" psychology. In the end it really is just repackaged anti-communism.
No.576236
>>576235>If you are not interested in changing the way things are then class struggle wont be important to you and history could be about your favorite books and movies instead. You may not be interested in history, but history is certainly interested in you
No.576237
>>576234>point out that it's retarded to think posting on /pol/ is praxis<TANK ANON CAUSES SEETHING>sure bud<WOAH WOAH WOAH LET'S NOT GET ROWDYi get that he has all the based opinions when it comes to the war, but it's pathetic to be a lickspittle
No.576238
The press in my country said that the Russian MoD is currently fighting for Rivnopil', I checked the map, and thought "how the fuck did they get passed the frontline by almost 30km, passed the first defense line, without seeing any kind of peremoga anywhere?"
I think it's probably some intern who did a mistake, but it only confirms for me that mainstream journalists are absolutely worthless in our day and age.
No.576240
>>576235Bothsidism. Libs really love their both sides, civil discourse and such. It is liberalism's inherited countermeasures against feudal lords - in a feudal society with random ass class such as church land lords or cossacks or such, and the need to protect themselves against kings, libs got for themselves this idea about both sides needing to be understood and appeased. It's a nonsensical idea in the age dominated by liberalism, and libs themselves don't care about the other side in slightest anymore, but oh well
No.576241
>>576239you're either him or sucking him of. sad.
No.576242
>>576206>counter-narratives must be deepNo, they don't. I can argue any opposing point better than my opponents can, that's the real problem with echo-chambers - I give benefit and sympathy to those that don't fucking deserve it. We live in a material reality, and it's viable and
optimal to judge the validity of a position by the crowd around it, and my opponents are absolute imbeciles, scumfucks, degenerates, and gulag fodder.
No.576243
Have you claimed you Russian gf yet?
No.576244
>>576241Such is the postmodern mind
Unable even to conceive of objective truths and reality
No.576246
>>576242you needed to go to /pol/ for
years to realize that?
No.576249
To continue the argument for there being an objective reality ie. Communism that rules over narratives
Notice how ukrainian tank anon is not dying in the kievan regime's volksturm
Is it not a good thing to have objective reality utterly entrenched through the process described in
>>576206 >>576221 ?
In fact could it not be said that it is objectively good to have objective reality entrenched into ones worldview?
No.576250
>>576248>lady-pedeoh god i forgot those geriatric crackers called themselves centipedes
No.576255
>>576254I'm pretty sure there was one way early on lol
No.576256
>>576252>polemicalSo when will libs openly start referring to Hitler as "controversial"? He used to be the darling of Western conservatives before the whole Holocaust business came to light.
No.576259
>>576211There's nothing inherently wrong with postmodernism beyond the fact that it's difficult to get into, given that it builds on modernism which builds on like, all of western philosophical tradition.
Also is dialectical materialism even modernism? I thought that was later
No.576260
>>576167so glad you came around sabo. Not as a Putin bootlicker, but in nozt leaving the US blameless here
No.576262
>>576252>claiming that ukrainians still revered stepan banderaisn't there footage of zelensky doing this?
No.576263
>>576252So then operation Aerodynamic or whatever that effort was called to use the tiny minority of butthurt Nazi collaborators failed during the cold war… only to succeed decades later in supplanting Ukraine's national identity. And this time it wasn't the rehabilitated Nazi spy apparatus or spycraft, it was done through soy-dripping PR, NGOs and empowering lumpen thugs with surplus junk.
And the part that is so weird about this is these glowops seem to work all the same, even if they are a continuation of something already admitted to and partly declassified as a glowop from 70 years ago.I am not smart or well read, but this stuff defies common sense. If money can exert this sort of power through media even with today's availability of information, then what is the point of political education? What sort of agency can be wrought from the masses if such uncritical control is possible?
The US/NATO is all but declaring war on China pretty much arbitrarily as far as the PR goes and it's just another culture war talking point. Immigrants welfare, abortion oh yeah and a decades long project towards realizing the "BILLIONS MUST DIE" trope. But anyway, let's go back to idpol and celebrity gossip.
No.576264
>>576263>If money can exert this sort of power through media even with today's availability of information, then what is the point of political education? What sort of agency can be wrought from the masses if such uncritical control is possible?A lot of money is spent minimising the political education the masses get. And with the collapse of most communist parties into irrelevance, and the descent of "the left" into IDPOL butt sniffing, there is not enough people doing the ground work to educate the masses.
No.576268
they're trying again:
Enemy launches new offensive on Zaporozhye front: US Bradley attack at Orekhovo
▪️ Ukrainian troops with NATO armoured vehicles have launched a new wave of offensive operations near Orekhov on the Rabotino-Verbovoye line, at the junction of the positions of the already well-known 291 and 70 regiments.
▪️ The enemy has conducted an artillery preparation and a column of enemy equipment is trying to break through to our positions, firing.
▪️ The AFU has already suffered its first losses in armoured vehicles and assault infantry.
▪️ The enemy is conducting its first daytime attack in recent times, before that it preferred night-time offensives.
No.576269
>>576263Ukrainian nationalism wasn't imposed from the top-down. CIA helped, but ardent nationalists were born and raised in Ukrainian SSR.
No.576270
>>576268>The enemy is conducting its first daytime attack in recent times, before that it preferred night-time offensives.Running out of night vision equipment?
No.576271
>>576269Proof that USSR was too liberal
The only solution to Nazis is complete and utter liquidation
No.576272
>>576271Well Destalinisation was the greatest example of revisionism, Khrushchev was the original America-simping, I'm-too-good-for-violent-revolution "Communist" and I'm surprised he doesn't get more circlejerking online amongst western leftists.
No.576275
>Op-ed: Putin's emphasis on destroying NATO supplies over taking land proves his desperation to win
No.576276
>>576272Don't give them ideas, I've spent long enough weaning one of my best friends off Trotsky
No.576277
>>576273The Torygraph is probably the best source of Ukrainian copium that exists. I keep the app on my phone just so I can chortle at my notifications
No.576279
>>576276But it is weird right that when it comes to seething about revisionists, the western left is ranting almost exclusively about Deng Xiaoping and his economic reforms that kept the PRC in existence, whereas Khrushchev and his open placement of America and it's economy on a pedestal as the yardstick for development, making the USSR and USA directly comparable and even placing the US as significantly ahead of the USSR and trying to follow Americas footsteps with that Cornman arc, surely this is so ideologically backwards for a communist leader it's only obvious that a large part of why the USSR no longer exists is because there wasn't a de-Khruschevication of Soviet society after he was removed the idea that Communist and Capitalist nations not only could, but
should be compared. That certainly does more to restore capitalism in a capitalist nation than mere market reforms.
No.576280
>>576279Restore capitalism in a communist nation*
No.576281
>>576279There is plenty of ranting about Khrushchev when people talk about the USSR. But the USSR is dead so there is no hope there. People just wish the PRC was less revisionist or at least funded revolution like the revisionist USSR did.
The lack of internationalism is my primary issue with the PRC.
No.576282
>>576281Well isn't that ass-backwards
>Let's not critique what failed, let's critique what workedBecause IMO beyond economic critiques a lot of western leftists buy into the idea of China being an authoritarian state and unironically advocate for quasi-Khruschevian social reform and again treating NATO nations as the yardstick for freedom and human rights
No.576283
>>576282I just said people critique Khrushchev. But the fucking USSR is gone so it offers no hope to revolution now.
Also, most of the critiques of Khruschev apply to post-Mao leadership of the PRC. Deng was just better than Gorbachev as he didn't destroy the Party. But he still ceded ground in the class war to the capitalists, and if the PRC in the future wants to move towards communism it will have to fight inside and outside the Party to do it.
>buy into the idea of China being an authoritarian stateIt is an authoritarian state. And that's a good thing. It's the only way to keep liberals in check.
No.576284
>>576283>The PRC only exists because not only was it revisionist, it did revisionism very wellTo me this just sounds like you're buying into the idea that "real communism" doesn't work, because every AES ends up being revisionist and therefore the difference between surviving and falling to capitalists is just how successful you are at revisionism.
But China isn't part of NATO, it hasn't handed over its industry to western owners, Marxism is still taught at a university level in China rather than a footnote in Political Economy classes as an example of a wrong interpretation of history and economics, the vast majority of Eastern Europe, who were influenced by Khruschevian "communism" is the opposite. China has preserved some Marxist thought in it's society despite resorting to Markets for further development of productive capacity and has been used to grow the proletariat in China in both terms of size and wealth, whereas the Eastern European Communist parties just completely surrendered to Capitalism and accepted the ruin of millions because "ackshually perhaps the US ain't that bad".
To me European Communism was solely revisionist and went the way it did by either design or not really believing communism to be *that* important when American proles have bananas and porn, whereas China just reformed successfully without revising itself in to actual unironic capitalism.
No.576285
>>576284>To me this just sounds like you're buying into the idea that "real communism" doesn't workNo, that was Deng when he decided that planning was less effective at economic growth than markets. Thus undercutting the very basis for Marx's theory of the inevitability of communism.
>because every AES ends up being revisionistBecause nearly all AES was dependent upon the USSR and so followed them into revisionism. There was a reason why Mao split with Khruschev. The CPC spent years detailing the exact issues with the revisionism occurring in the USSR. But Maoists lost when the Cultural Revolution failed, and Deng's faction took over the CPC.
>But China isn't part of NATO, it hasn't handed over its industry to western ownersNeither has Iran.
>Marxism is still taught at a university level in China rather than a footnote in Political Economy classesRevisionist Marxism but at least there is a chance some anti-revisionists might try and reform the CPC in the future.
But if you think the capitalist roaders who are benefiting economically from the current "mixed economy" will go quietly into the night you haven't been paying attention to what happened to the USSR.
>whereas China just reformed successfully without revising itself in to actual unironic capitalismKhruschev "reformed successfully" without doing unironic capitalism. It was the next generation that fumbled and destroyed the USSR.
No.576288
>>576195Based Africans not playing around with westoid/yt bullshit manipulatiln tactics. A western politician would have said: "We didn't hear bombs, but we were moving fast, there may have been bombing in another part." African is just like nope, not heard bombs, not heard alerts, not seen explosions.
No.576289
>>576284>USSR isn't part of NATO>USSR hasn't handed over its industry to western owners>Marxism is still taught at a university level in the USSRThese points are a pretty low bar, and were all true for Khrushchev era USSR as well. I don't really care about this revisionist vs anti-revisionist, China vs USSR debate anymore, but I wonder why Khrushchev is the one who is always blamed. If you were talking about Gorby I would fully agree but Khrushchev era USSR hadn't made nearly as many concessions to the capitalist class and market economy as modern day China has. (I'm not necessarily saying that means modern China is bad, or that dogmatically adhering to the sacred texts of Marxism-Leninism is the most important thing. I just think this line of reasoning is inconsistent.)
No.576290
So why is it that Deng set a precedent with his reforms but Khrushchev is innocent when drawing unfavorable comparisons between the USSR and US and it was just his successors who thought "if you can't beat them, join them" that destroyed the USSR but they got this line of thinking out of nowhere?
Y'know the revisionism of Eastern Europe deposited it's proletariat straight back into late-stage capitalism, either as an imperialist state or a colonial state where wages are low and unemployment is high and capital is exported or expropriated, but the "revisionism" of China has seen it through a latent bourgeois revolution where the significant development of the productive forces occur and the China has seen massive improvements in the conditions of the proletariat, albeit as expected no where near as much as their bourgeoisie, but this is all part of the plan, this is how it was always historically destined to work for reasons I surely don't need to explain.
Isn't this just kicking the dirt that China hasn't found a way to short circuit the historical developments considered crucial to the development of the productive forces that drives civilisations forward until resistances get too high to slow it down and revolution occurs? China hasn't changed this and nor does it want to, proles in Eastern Europe will need to "rediscover" Marxism when the time comes, much effort is expended in hoping Eastern European will forget communism for ever, but Chinese proletarians won't need to rediscover anything, the knowledge and the correct interpretation of society is not obscured from them.
No.576291
>>576289The comparison is in the results of these revisions today, it's only a low bar when you want the comparison to exist before the results of these reforms/revisions have been created.
>Russia tried to join NATO>Russia wanted to sell their industry, just for a good price>Marxism is not taught in Russian universities No.576292
>>576291This is true, and I agree that it's less likely China will crumble into something like the former USSR. But why is Khrushchev specifically the one to blame? I've followed these discussions for years and I've never been able to truly understand what was so horrible about Khrushchev. There was no capitalist class to speak of during his leadership and the USSR still actively supported revolutionary movements and socialist states around the world. The cause and effect is not obvious to me.
Meanwhile Gorby's reforms were drastic and destroyed the USSR in just a few short years, there's a clear cause and effect there. I don't think that was inevitable, Gorby fucked everything up either intentionally or by sheer incompetence.
No.576295
>>576290>So why is it that Deng set a precedent with his reforms but Khrushchev is innocentNo one fucking says that. In fact most (online) Dengists argue the opposite. That Khrushchev was a dangerous revisionist and Deng wasn't a revisionist despite going much further than Khrushchev did.
>Isn't this just kicking the dirt that China hasn't found a way to short circuit the historical developments considered crucial to the development of the productive forcesThis is rejecting Lenin for Plekhanov.
This is what shits me about Dengists. You say Lenin and Stalin where correct when Dengist theory is just Plekhanov and Bukharin re-heated.
Pick a fucking side.
>>576292Khrushchev not only smeared Stalin in his attempt to seize control of the CPSU (from which he was purged for crimes he accused Stalin of). He weakened Leninist discipline, rehabilitated people who had been rightly purged during Stalin's time, and began reforms that were the beginning of marketisation by stealth. Gorbachev never would have been general secretary if it weren't for the reforms of Khrushchev.
No.576296
>>576292It's just a matter of opinion I suppose, IMO Khrushchev introduced that competitive dimension on the Soviet side in the cold war despite being a drastically different society with very different aims, going Ga Ga over American supermarkets was a bad idea because they're a result of imperialism and not anything like American ingenuity or pragmatism or access to lots of corn and the USSR therefore couldn't replicate American 'successes' anyway.
During Leninist and Stalinist times, there weren't really any such comparisons with the US, just a focus on what is needed and plans to achieve whatever it is. Huge expenditure into stuff like the space race, arms race, trying to grow corn just because it grows well in the US, this all comes from competitiveness with a form of society that's by Marxist definitions is in the past when you've got Communism.
While sending the first man in to space is a proud achievement, it doesn't actually prove Communism to be a more advanced society than Capitalism, but then why was so much effort expended on it? The USSR would have secured it's territory with perhaps a couple hundred of nuclear weapons, so why did they build thousands and then also build the largest conventional army in the world on top of that? It was all competing with the western bourgeoisie for bragging rights and I think that was the kernel of counter-revolution that introduced pointless competition with capitalism on silly, irrelevant metrics that ultimately let politicians in the East to think they'll never win against capitalism in these dumb metrics and therefore "if you can't beat them, join them" and thereby allow much more aggressive forms of counter-revolution to exist out of some kind of bizarre understanding and solidarity with them by the end that allowed for bloodless colour revolutions.
China picked markets and chose to make the unpopular decision to not rush or short circuit necessary historical developments, but AFAIK they never adopted markets to compete with the US, their metrics for economic development is still concerned with stuff that actually matters like how much high speed rail has been lain, other than just seeking statistics and shit.
That's why in my opinion, the reforms China made are acceptable, while Khrushchev did not collapse European communism himself, his weird simping for America and desire to compete directly with them was a fatal ideological deviation that was never purged and festered until Communist Parties started thinking capitalism wasn't something worth resisting tooth and nail.
No.576297
>>576279It's because retards spend more time reading The Guardian than they do theory. As soon as you understand dialectical and historical materialism, China's path to socialism makes perfect sense. "Maoists" are dogmatic and act like this one guy had all the answers for all eternity, Mao would outright disown all of them.
No.576298
>>576295Calm down, getting angry isn't going to solve anything.
Lenin had his NEP and it's explicitly said by Engles in the principals of communism that private property is not something that can be removed instantly or even prematurely before this revolution is naturally caused by the growth of the productive forces are outgrowing those who own the means of production for private intereste, the reasons for which were discovered during the Cultural Revolution sadly.
No.576299
>>576296Well put, you have given me some stuff to think about. Thanks, anon.
No.576300
>>576285>No, that was Deng when he decided that planning was less effective at economic growth than markets.It was also true
>Thus undercutting the very basis for Marx's theory of the inevitability of communism.No it didn't.
No.576301
>>576270They finally understood that Russia had adequate equipment for such tactics lmao
No.576303
>>576298>Lenin had his NEPWhich he explicitly said was the allowance of a free market and capitalism. And Dengists will piss and moan if you say the PRC has free markets and capitalism.
Stalin was also on the side of ending the NEP and Bukharin was for continuing. Therefore, again, you cannot support the theories of both Stalin and Bukharin.
>Engles in the principals of communism that private property is not something that can be removed instantly or even prematurely before this revolution is naturally caused by the growth of the productive forcesWhich is the line Plekanov took. So, again, you can't support the theories of both Lenin and Plekanov.
No.576305
>>576294>>576302This stuff makes me more sad than anything
No.576307
Lukashenko quoting Stalin.
https://eng.belta.by/president/view/lukashenko-hosts-meeting-on-hr-policy-159667-2023/
>The president said that such a representative composition of the meeting was absolutely reasonable. “We are going to discuss the most important issue today. Human resources. Cadre are key. They decide everything. It is true,” the head of state said.Stalin said.
>"That is why the old slogan, “Technique decides everything,” which is a reflection of a period already passed, a period in which we suffered from a dearth of technique, must now be replaced by a new slogan, the slogan “Cadres decide everything.” That is the main thing now."duginbased.webm
No.576308
>>576304The probing will continue until morale improves!
But yeah that's the sort of crap I said they'd come up with weeks ago. The offensive won't be official until it has made a large breakthrough.
No.576309
>RYBAR AND TPYXA HAVE DIRECT CONTACTS TO EACH OTHER
>TPYXA ADMIN ALREADY ARRESTED BY SBU
>THIS PROVES THAT THIS WAR WAS SET UP BY THE WAR CORRESPONDENTS TO GROW THEIR AUDIENCE
No.576311
>>576303>Supporting something Engles said>Reeeeeeee noooo that's Plehkanov thoughtOkay dude.
No.576312
>>576308The question is what will be the narrative if the offensive has no large scale breakout before Ukraine is forced to abandon efforts and regroup? "The tests came up inconclusive, we found no weakspots?"
No.576313
>>576274if russia captures 100% won't they be required to pay the debt though
better capture 99.1% and let the westernmost region pay up the blackrock/raytheon shit :^)
No.576314
>>576181thats dumb, you were being facetious :(
No.576315
Honestly for some comrades, factionalism is way more important than just applying basic Marxist ideas to situations as they arise.
>This situation has come up
>Hmmm I think I saw this being discussed by this Marxist theorist in this book
>Perhaps that would be applicable to this situation some how?
<REEEE NO THAT'S GOLDSTEIN THOUGHT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!
>But the situation is different to that
<REVISIONIST! CLASS TRAITOR! MARX IS SPINNING IN HIS GRAAAAAVE!
No.576316
>>576311Plekhanov was the "orthodox" Marxist saying Lenin and the Bolsheviks were radicals who would doom Russia by trying to force a proletarian revolution before the "productive forces" were ready.
So, again, you can't support both Lenin and Plekhanov.
No.576317
>>576313Leave a government in exile on Snake Island.
No.576318
>>576294Who put up the flags?
No.576319
>>576315In what ways were the ideas of Plekhanov and Bukharin wrong in Russia, but correct in China?
No.576322
>>576319>Why should different nations, histories and epochs matter?I don't need to explain why China is a different case when you've already got three significant material differences there. To think there is one historical truth to implementing Marxism and any variance there is just factionalism where you're for some reason needing to defend the legacy of your favourite revolutionary is really dumb and I'm not entertaining it.
Lenin vs Plekhanov is a retarded framing of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, perhaps you should just go back to liberalism where defending factions is the limit of political thought.
No.576323
>>576322>where defending factions is the limit of political thoughtThat is exactly what you are doing. You are defending Deng but you can't actually explain why Deng was right and Plekhanov was wrong.
Dengists would be more honest if they just said Pelhanov and Bukharin were right but then they couldn't pretend to support Lenin and Stalin.
No.576324
>>576139has to be the worst "armored" carrier I've seen this month, looks like a large lamb rotisserie
No.576325
MoA is down. That a regular thing?
No.576326
>>576323Why is Deng vs Plehkanov even a thing though? Different nation, different history, different global position, different epoch. Lenin and Stalin for example didn't exist in a world where the societies they created ceased to exist, let alone the revisionism of Khrushchev.
Like I said, this is a retarded framing of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, the world didn't end in 1921, the USSR wasn't founded and that was the end of Communist history, but ultimately that's what this seething about
>REEEE NO PLEKHANOV AGREED WITH ENGLES OUT OF ORTHODOXY>YOU HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH ENGLE BECAUSE LENIN DID BECAUSE THE NATION, HISTORY AND EPOCH WAS DIFFERENT!You just want that one interpretation to be a one-size fits all, you're decrying one orthodoxy with an other and though Marxism-Leninism is very good at orchestrating revolutions, the argument between Lenin and Plekhanov was around orchestrating revolution and Lenin was correct, he was correct in Russia and he was correct in China when Mao applied Leninism to China. The modern PRC aren't face with the issue of seizing power over an imperialist state, the CCP are already in control, what their focus on is socialist development and that's why
LENIN VS PLEKHANOV CHOSE ONE is retarded.
Like I said, please return to liberalism if you just want tribalism.
No.576330
>>576301Believing in their own propaganda about RuSsIA DoEsN't HaVe NiGhtViSion got many guys killed…
No.576331
And also every canal is now disconnected from the "lake".
Agriculture in Crimea and especially the Melitopol area is done for.
No.576333
>>576331TUV
TOTAL UKRAINIAN VICTORY
SOON TRAITORS WILL STARVE TO DEATH - GLORY TO STEPAN BANDERA
No.576334
>>576333>>576329I like how half of the thread is MUH THEORY STONK, but only resorts to profanity when facing some minor challenge.
No.576335
>>576328>Soviets built the dam to withstand small nuclear explosions.What a load of shit lol
No.576336
>>576334our theory is pretty good tho
No.576339
>>576334>resorts to profanity when facing some minor challengewhat challenge?
>>576328>Soviets built the dam to withstand small nuclear explosionswhat is the source for this?
No.576340
>>576337It's more what follows after liberalism degenerates into a clash of civlizations. the root of the problem is why liberalism did not come to define global capitalism after the world achieved it. the answer is either an essential, nationality-based division of progrses and reaction or a global system that privileges a few nations.
No.576343
>>576339>what challenge?How did the dam get blown up without
>Russians doing it>Russians not noticing Ukraine doing it, under their own feet No.576344
>>576341Now we know the Ruskies didn't do it because that's Crimea's drinking water, so therefore who did it and how?
No.576345
>>576341Yeah 20 meters of concrete already under strain from holding back thousands of tonnes of water.
No.576346
>>576333WWG1WGA
Banderites in control
No.576348
>Putin orders study of gays. 16 Jun, 2023 11:27
>The Russian President has ordered the creation of a special institute focused on examining homosexuality and gender identityhttps://www.rt.com/russia/578142-putin-orders-lgbtq-study/
>Russia is set to create a new psychiatric institute dedicated to studying, among other things, the behavior of LGBTQ people as well as issues dealing with gender roles and identity, Health Minister Mikhail Murashko revealed during a discussion in the State Duma on Thursday.
>Amid a lower parliament discussion of a bill that would ban sex change operations in Russia, Murashko was asked by Deputy Anatoly Wasserman to what extent the Health Ministry was paying attention to studies on psychological and, if need be, psychiatric methods of bringing misconceptions about gender back in line with reality.
>The minister responded by pointing out that there are several medical research centers in Russia that are already studying this issue. He added that President Vladimir Putin has also ordered the creation of “an additional institute on the basis of our federal center of psychiatry to study not only these, but also a number of behavioral areas, including social behavior.”
>According to the Health Ministry, this new institute will be formed on the basis of the Serbsky Center for Psychiatry and Narcology. Murashko noted that LGBTQ research will further be expanded upon and included in the obligatory scientific studies in addition to what is already being done today.
>LGBTQ groups in Russia have decried Murashko’s statement, suggesting that such research is akin to so-called “conversion therapy,” which is a set of physical and psychological methods aimed at treating non-heterosexual orientations and gender identity. Such methods have been condemned by the World Health Organization and the United Nations, which have called them pseudoscientific and likened them to torture.
>However, neither Murashko nor any other representatives of the Health Ministry have explicitly mentioned conversion therapy in their statements and it is unclear if lawmakers have any intent to introduce such methods or legislation.
>On Wednesday, lawmakers adopted a bill in the first reading that would outlaw almost all sex reassignment surgeries as well as gender changes on official documents in Russia. The legislation, if passed, would only allow limited surgical procedures aimed at remedying “congenital anomalies” in children.
>Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin pointed out that the primary goal of the new bill is to protect children and pointed to statistics in the US, where he stated the proportion of transgender people among teenagers is already three times higher than among adults thanks to LGBTQ propaganda. No.576349
>Soviet built stuff is all shit and falls apart easily, nothing like muh superior western capitalist construction built by waged wunderworkers
>Ackshually that soivet-built Dam was made to withstand nuclear explosion and was therefore extremely well made and wouldn't easily fall apart at all
The duality of NAFOids
No.576350
>>576348Yep, another sobering reminder the critical support for Russia is very critical indeed
No.576351
>>576348Breaking news: Putin orders study of OP
No.576352
>>576343And this is related to Marxist theory in what way?
No.576354
>>576344>Now we know the Ruskies didn't do it because that's Crimea's drinking water, so therefore who did it and how?Ukrainians under gross Russian negligence?
No.576355
>>576353The difference in capability is kind of irrelevant though, even with the upgrades the M-55S is not going to be tanking shells on the frontline, it's also going to end up being used as a mobile field gun in which case it's exactly the same as T-55s or even T-54s because they've got the same gun, same HE shells, same rate of fire.
No.576356
>>576348seems like a double down on current policies
No.576357
I hope the mods can seriously consider wordfiltering hohol/khohol. It makes absolutely no sense for communists to slander entire ethnic groups when there are plenty of Ukrainian communists and activists who have been persecuted for not toeing the ultranationalist line, and there are also millions of ethnic Ukrainians within Russia itself. It cheapens the discussion and makes actual essentialists far more comfortable spewing their crap.
No.576358
>>576357Ha right, and I think Third World comrades should stop putting
>Death to anglosin their Twitter bios because it's unfair to me and hurts my fee fees lmao
No.576359
>>576356If the burger reich hadn't tried to start WWIII with Russia I'd even care
No.576360
>>576349>The press service of the Ministry of Health of Russia RBC reported that the content of Mikhail Murashko's speech in a speech at the plenary session of the State Duma was distorted. They clarified that "we are talking about the development of the Serbsky Federal Center for Psychiatry, whose program is currently being developed. The Institute will study aggressive human behavior, the influence of environmental and genetic factors on aggressive behavior, as well as the development of predictive behaviors: dependent, autodestructive behavior, victim behavior, behavior under stress, maladaptive behavior, disorganized behavior."Sounds like a case of "scientist rapes journalist" or the guy running his mouth without knowing.
Only news I can find that are specifically framing it as a "LGBT research institute" are from Western and liberast sources.
I am roughly 80% certain nothing will come out of it, but we'll see.
>>576357What about orc/zigga?
No.576361
>>576358I think people who like that stuff are a minority of any community no matter where you are.
No.576362
>>576360>What about orc/zigga?Orc definitely, it's pretty much the same intent as hohol in dehumanizing entire populations that include many individuals with whom you'd probably get along in building something. Zigga is just referring to a supporter the same way NAFOid is, I think that's okay but also annoying.
No.576363
>>576359>>576356>>576351>>576350>>576348I found more inform on the bill now. I went to Russia state duma website to have the most precise details and I am translating it to English.
http://duma.gov.ru/news/57290/
>MPs support amendments to ban gender reassignment
>The bill introduces a ban on medical workers to perform gender reassignment surgery, except in cases of treatment of congenital physiological anomalies of sex formation in children. Among the authors of the initiative are Vyacheslav Volodin and leaders of all factions
>At the plenary session on June 14, a draft law was adopted in the first reading , establishing a complete ban on medical interventions aimed at gender reassignment, as well as excluding state registration of gender reassignment without surgery. Almost 400 deputies from all factions headed by the Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin became its authors .
>“The worst thing is the molestation of children,” said Vyacheslav Volodin at the plenary session. “In the United States, where these new pseudo-values are promoted, the proportion of transgender people among teenagers is already three times higher than among the adult population. This is the result of propaganda. The number of children receiving hormone therapy has more than doubled in five years. Pumping up children with hormones begins at the age of eight. Over five years, from 2017 to 2021, more than 2,000 gender reassignment surgeries were performed on children aged 13 to 17.”
>“We do not want this to happen in our country. Let the diabolical policy be carried out in the USA,” the Chairman of the State Duma emphasized.
>Amendments are proposed to be made to the federal laws "On acts of civil status" and "On the basics of protecting the health of citizens in the Russian Federation."
>"Medical workers are prohibited from carrying out medical interventions aimed at changing the sex of a person, including the formation of a person's primary and (or) secondary sexual characteristics of the other sex," the draft law says.
>Also, in accordance with the amendments, "medical interventions related to the treatment of congenital physiological anomalies of sex formation in children are allowed by decision of the medical commission of the federal state healthcare institution." The list of such anomalies will be approved by the Government of the Russian Federation.
>As the Chairman of the State Duma clarified, the final version of the document can be adopted in the spring session. “We will be able to consider the bill in the near future during the spring session. It all depends on us,” he said. No.576364
>>576363Looks like bourgeois liberal democracy at work
Liberal democracy couldn't possibly be a shit form of government that leads to such things could it?
After all, if it was would not such things also be gaining traction in burgerland or bongland?
No.576365
>>576363sounds like they're plagiarizing from reactionaries stateside; nothing new under the sun with bourgeois liberalism
No.576366
>>576213So this is the power of capitalism
No.576367
>>576357>It makes absolutely no sense for communists to slander entire ethnic groups/ukraine/ isn’t a thread for communists though
its a thread for Russian nationalists
No.576368
>>576367Then why is it allowed on the board at all
No.576369
>>576368it’s a temporary arrangement
we /chug/chinlets will leave when HOHOLS are finally btfo
No.576370
>>576348It would be kinda funny if the people in this institute make a genuine scientific inquiry on LGBT people and come to same conclusion as people in the West and consequently get their shit kicked in by the FSB.
But in all likelihood they'll just repeat what the people in the Russian government wants to hear.
No.576371
>>576370>people in the WestAround half of burgeria is Taliban tier on social issues, the rainbow flags painted all over the bombs and embassies that kill innocent children are just an attempt to hide that shame
Don't give the west that kind of credit it doesn't deserve it
No.576373
>>576326If you believe Bukharin, Plehanov and the mensheviks were all wrong in saying russia wasn't ready for socialism because the productive forces were insufficiently developed (ie. you believe russian productive forces were sufficiently developed for socialism in the 1910s-1930s), then it's incoherent to claim Deng/'Dengism' is correct when claiming China in 1980s-now has insufficiently developed productive forces for socialism unless you want to argue that the China of today is behind the Russia of 1917 in terms of productive forces development. The difference in material conditions is opposite to what it would need to be for this claim to make sense. It's that simple, not a tribalistic defence of a particular theorist or faction, just clarity about the incompatibility of two positions vis a vis eachother.
I think today's self-proclaimed 'dengist' MLs aren't actually cofnused about this or have an internally incoherent view because they don't think of 'Lenin - Stalin - Deng, no contradiction!' in terms of their theory and what they believed about marxism, socialism or productive force, but rather in terms of campism and continuity of power, because in those terms you can draw a direct line between them, the ideas and goals changed dramtically and aren't consistent with eachother but because it's all one camp that doesn't matter. Same way that the same people won't see contraction between third period social fascism and the united front, both came from Stalin so it's all folded in neatly.
At the end of the day for these people political statements, theory, etc. are not sincerely held thoughts about reality but weapons tactically deployed whenever expedient in a constantly shifting campist struggle that their worldview and 'political activity' consists of.
That's the real meaning of 'but the conditions are different' it isn't a statement corresponding to addressing theory in it's actual context and meaning but to a fundamental banality of theory and it's pragmatic use to justify the current state of things, ideology in it's true sense.
No.576374
>>576373>If you believe Bukharin, Plehanov and the mensheviks were all wrong in saying russia wasn't ready for socialism because the productive forces were insufficiently developed (ie. you believe russian productive forces were sufficiently developed for socialism in the 1910s-1930s), then it's incoherent to claim Deng/'Dengism' is correct when claiming China in 1980s-now has insufficiently developed productive forces for socialism unless you want to argue that the China of today is behind the Russia of 1917 in terms of productive forces development. The difference in material conditions is opposite to what it would need to be for this claim to make sense. It's that simple, not a tribalistic defence of a particular theorist or faction, just clarity about the incompatibility of two positions vis a vis eachother.This ignores that capitalism in its morbid symptoms has generated new needs and desires
Many new needs and desires
No.576375
>>576372yes i worry for the future of Transnistria
No.576376
>>576373I think most """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""dengists""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" are just M-Ls who regardless of whether they agree with Deng believe that any deviation he made does not mean China is not worthy of support
No.576378
>>576341Could've been an ATACMS
No.576379
>>1501054
where is it? cant find it on the booru
No.576382
>>576373>blah blahI'm not saying China isn't "ready for socialism", what I'm saying is they already have had their revolution in terms of deposing the previous feudal government and have secured control of the state and are progressing through socialist development now in the way they see fit. You still can't compare this to disagreements between Lenin and Plekhanov whether Russia can have a revolution to depose the Tsar and form a Socialist government, that discussion has already come and gone in China with Mao utilising Leninism to bring a Socialist government to China.
Plekhanov died before the USSR was even founded, Lenin didn't really live that long into socialist development once having founded the USSR, that's why the conditions are different, the disagreement you're trying to apply to modern China predate anyone having a Socialist state. You'd have to be either a moron of intellectually dishonest to think the two situations between Pre-Soviet Russia and the modern PRC are so similar, pre-revolutionary debates are applicable to a post-revolutionary state 100 years later.
No.576383
>>576373>the ideas and goals changed dramtically and aren't consistent with eachotherIdeas and goals are consistent between Lenin - Stalin - Mao - Deng. Stalin is actually most applicable to today's China, because China was even more underdeveloped than Russian Empire .
No.576384
>>576285>he decided that planning was less effective at economic growth than marketsits not that it's less effective in a vacuum, it was definitely less effective when most of the world capital, technologies and industry was in the capitalist west that straight up refused trading with socialist states except for getting cheap raw resources
allowing the capitalist to come, invest and develop the country was definitely the right choice as long as the party kept its grip on power and could keep them in check
even repelling the iron bowl was because it was the only way to get into the WTO
I believe deng to be a communist, but also someone who was able to think in geopolitical terms and about the place of his country in the global arena
krushev on the other hand was an incompetent buffoon, pretty good at politicking internally but absolutely awful at running a state. The sino soviet split, the shitting on stalin, the retarded meddling in agriculture, the praising of capitalist west, all this is on him and the party of these years.
No.576385
>>576374The implication being that the 'threshold' at which productive forces are sufficiently developed for socialism has vastly increased? If that is the case then socialism is an eternally retreating horizon like that one radio yerevan joke. Which is very convenient for dengists, 2050 can become 2100 and so on.
Now the response to this can be 'well, of course the threshold is different, capitalism has advanced and built up more advanced productive forces, so for socialism to be possible we must outpace them' so therefore socialism is only possible where there are the most advanced productive forces, a moving threshold, but then you're back to plehanov, kautsky and the mensheviks saying socialism and revolution should only be carried out in the advanced capitalist countries and the Bolsheviks were mistaken, they carried out a historical abberation and setback.
Then there's then issue of the USSR, if you do believe this threshold is shifting and more developed productive forces are neccessary then how can the USSR be claimed to be socialist if it's developement never exceeded the west, certainly not as much as China has today. And yet most MLs obviously uphold the USSR and the eastenr bloc as socialist and its socialism as self-evidently possible despite capitalism in the west continuing to 'raise the threshold'. Moreover the belief is widespread that the failure of the USSR was due sinister revisionist elements and not inability to compete and match the rising threshold of productive forces development for maintaining socialism, so another inconsistency.
And if you do believe that this was the case and the USSR wasn't able to satisfy these needs due to insuffiently developed productive forces then you're back to Bukharin claiming the same and advocating markets and support for the peasantry to continue controlled capitalist development of productive forces.
No.576386
>>576384>even repelling the iron bowl was because it was the only way to get into the WTOiirc one of Deng's major regrets he expressed when he made the comment that he would consider himself lucky if he was judged 50% good 50% bad was breaking the iron rice bowl
No.576387
>>576385>The implication being that the 'threshold' at which productive forces are sufficiently developed for socialism has vastly increased? Socialism was possible 100 years ago, it's possible now. It's not about the machines, it's about the relationships and society. People must realize how it works. People can take responsibility for social needs of their communities even today in the most capitalist countries, and we talk about making people one big community. It's a massive education effort, psychological effort, not just machines
No.576388
>>576376This tbqh, I just don't think market reforms as part of socialist development is the crime many ultras think it is, instead I think the revisionism of Khrushchev introduced an idiotic form of competition with Capitalist states based on metrics they've set, that results in shit like the USSR being considered to have been "stagnating" in the 1970s when most other capitalist countries were having economic crashes not seen since the Great Depression. That turned what should have been a resounding victory for Communism, a maintenance of high living standards when all around the USSR is chaos into a perceived failure because
>erm yes but what about the growth? have you even considered the GDP?and that's a far worse crime as an ideological deviation instead of
>need productive forced to be developed>lets use the tried and true method of markets to get thereState capitalism? Sure, but they're not ideologically cucking themselves to the idea that the US is to be envied or even fought based on economic statistics.
No.576389
>>576385go to /prc/ or make your own thread if you're just going to be autistic
No.576390
>>576328why would russia have blown it ? they loose crimea fresh water, they loose their defensive positions and minefields, they give ukrainians an easier time crossing the river
on the other hand, we know because ukrainians were proudly saying it and russian confirmed it, that ukrops bombed the dam with himars, destroying the machinery, and talked about destroying it.
finally theres the real possibility that the combination of bombardment weakening the structure/creating critical weak points, and very high water level eventually caused it to fail.
but its funny watching dumbfucks with 0 reliable info proudly saying a random fucking dam would need a nuclear charge just to be able to conclude "russia bad"
No.576391
>>576387>>576385I could go with a hot take on social issues and medical costs but let's keep it clean
The soviet union produced the best hunting shotgun bar none
Hunters in the soviet union needed no other gun other than the one with the soviet stamp of quality on it their needs were satisfied even many USano hunters needs were satisfied by it
Now look at things after the era blackest reaction breaks out after the fall of the soviet union, does one excellent best for purpose shotgun satisfy the need of hunters or are their all sorts of firearms and props for them
needed No.576392
>>576388market reformism develops socialism liberalism destroys socialism and ultras do not understand the distinction
No.576393
>>576367>its a thread for Russian nationalistsSTFU, all my communist hommies support Russia.
No.576394
>>576391People's gunsmiths made shotgun for the people
No.576395
>>576390That reminds me, the kievan regime has been attacking that dam on and off for a while now even preceding the counteroffensyiv yeah?
No.576396
>>576357>It makes absolutely no sense for communists to slander entire ethnic groupshohol is not an ethnic slur. it's the american equivalent, burguer. a nationalistic ukrainian who's too dense for their own good (i.ex. using Russian technologies, then complaining it's Russian)
No.576397
>>576385There isn't a "threshold" people set and transition to communism at that exact point, Marx has already theorised that under socialism private property and eventually the state withers away due to advance development of the productive forces outgrowing the existing relations of production and private ownership of productive property.
If China is developing their productive forces, and they are, then transition to communism is a matter of material dialectics already defined by Marx, is that Plekhanov thought as well? Was Marx wrong there that this will be a natural development that instead of just needing a "push" with revolution, it ackshually needs ultras like you to say
>That's it! That's enough productive capacity for the next few centuries, I declare communism now! Come on everyone, put the private property in the bowl I'm redistributing it No.576398
>>576395Yeah. They've been shooting at it with HIMARS and bragging about it. Russia could hardly mount massive repairs with hundreds of tons of concrete considering it was a warzone, meaning its integrity would have been eroded over time
No.576401
I haven't been paying attention in months, so is this war ever going to end?
No.576403
>>576328ukraine plenty of times attacked the dam with himmars. it's been recorded cannister on the dam from the himmars rockets.
it's make no sense for Russia to blow a structure that:
Held water for Crimea
Avoided the terrain to becoming a marsh in areas they want to control.
/k/o(ink)pe.
No.576404
>>576385The productive forces only need to be developed worldwide to the extent that imperialism becomes too difficult to be worth it for imperialist countries. Making imperialism nearly impossible to engage in is akin to abolishing class on the global and international level, leaving only class in its rootless form to be dealt with. Multipolarism isnt a return to past nationalistic spheres of influence, but rather it is a world where the majority of the world wants to continue trading and peaceful coexistence while the increasingly reactionary imperial core wants to stop it because it is becoming increasingly difficult to pay for the expenses of the imperialist war machine without suffering heavy losses in any country they attempt to coup or invade.
No.576406
>>576401In around a fortnight experts suggest
No.576407
>>576385>that the failure of the USSR was due sinister revisionist elementsIt literally was though. You seriously think Pizzaman and his acolytes were innocent? that they didn't knew what their reforms would eventually cause?
No.576409
>>576353>imblying Russia doesn't do overhaul/k/ope.
wow, so much kopers earlier this morning. huh.
No.576410
>>576353he is literally doing the meme lmao
No.576411
>>576304what a way to test things, destroying half the modified leopards deminers provided by the west.
No.576413
>>576252nyt is doing a good job with this shitty historical revisionism. at this point, they are at one step of claiming hitler dindu nuffin wrong, one step too close.
>>576256will we start to ask
when hitler started to be praised again, rather than
when it was permitted to whitewash nazi crimes too much, sooner than I expected.
No.576415
bonk
>>576414Absolutely no idea from this angle
No.576418
>>576417Ukraine really is uber retarded for being talked out of Cucktin's peace plan
No.576419
>>576259>There's nothing inherently wrong with postmodernism beyond the fact that it's difficult to get into, given that it builds on modernism which builds on like, all of western philosophical tradition. Instead of getting angry and shouting, I would like to politely inform you that you are completely mistaken.
Just because something comes after or is "built on" something "good", doesn't mean that something is also "good". Postmodernism is the belief that we can never really know what's going on, in other words, we'll never be able to know "true reality", so we have to invent stories and narratives that best or in the simplest terms describe it.
Postmodernists are against "grand narratives" and categorically reject dialectical materialism, because grand narratives imply that all the individual actions people do, add up to something more, that there emerges a recognisable pattern from seemingly random events.
For postmodernists, life is a series of random events that have no relation to one another. Which is why they love Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, because they believe that means "randomness" is built into the very fabric of matter. But it doesn't and it isn't.
I could also be completely wrong, don't believe meI've attached a book I haven't read, it's on postmodernism. Pretty sure it agrees with me that postmodernism is dumb.
No.576420
>>576419>I've attached a book I haven't read, it's on postmodernism. Pretty sure it agrees with me that postmodernism is dumb.lmao, I love the honesty
No.576421
>>576415kek, did the tank just blindly went ahead and the driver got scared believing the tank will catch fire?
No.576422
>>576416>KInda weird that the Ukronazis are probing the same exact spot for weak points with the exact same massive armor forces Not that weird if your plan is to throe people and vehicles at the defenses until they run out of mines and ammunition. Remember, Russia is about to run out of everything.
No.576423
>>576420the spirit of /lit/ is still alive on /leftypol/
No.576425
>>576252>accused collaboratorDon't get too offended by the NYT doing this, this is the same sidestepping of the issue that you see with Taiwan which is just a "self-governing island claimed by the mainland". I guarantee people there are well aware that Bandera is not an alleged Nazi just like they know Taiwan's own constitution says it's part of China. They're just interpreting it in a way that doesn't damage the West and its liberalism. Meaning, the West recognizes Bandera as a Nazi collaborator but maybe not the historic Soviet/Russian idea of collaborator.
Keep in mind this is just part of a kind of ideological fragility that's coming into play often these days. The #1 weakness that is the concern here is the penchant for liberal contradictions to be used against liberalism by its enemies. This sensitivity was developed a lot during the Cold War. Meaning, this has nothing to do with Bandera and his victims but what some Westoid is struggling with regarding history and how much, beyond a certain point, their system polarizes history in democratic ways. They fear democracy undoing itself by instead leading history to a very undemocratic contradiction like colonialism rather than being the most resilient system which overcomes such things. They're functionally blind to the crisis of globalization because a lot of it is democracy contradicting itself yet Westoids are eager to fight out its antagonisms. It doesn't represent the world, it doesn't even represent all of Ukraine, and that empowered Russia to reject the West's unilaterally asserted international or democratic mandate to unite Ukraine. They could instead challenge it as NATO expansion coming to threaten rebellious regions of nationalist Ukraine. As a result, any contradiction in democracy has to be lied about because it can never be what actually polarizes us. It's always the preceding conflict between democracy and another form of government, but capitalism develops over time to erode this idealist division of the world.
pic not rel
No.576426
>>576424precisely. this war has shown the complete disregard NATO/UA/EU have for (non-European) human life. "To the last Ukrainian!" was never a joke.
No.576428
>>576425I disagree. they rationalize that bander-ack is innocuous as Taiwan is not part of China the same way they believe those things.
you have to bring people that believe these things to have them writing the propaganda very convincingly, or else it will have cracks and could be weak.
No.576429
>>576425>collapse of NATO or warUhh don't make me hard
No.576430
>>576417Full translation please? I can see tanks listed.
No.576431
>>576321>>576294>>576318the idea was to remember all states of Russia state, but seems everyone was not that happy that other flags weren't included, such as the "grand-ducal" flag with the
Savior (picrel).
No.576432
>>576248>Older lady-pede hereWhy would they call themselves something so close to pedo? kek
No.576435
>>576252People focus on how the west denies Bandera worship, but even that is anchoring the conversation far from where it should be, because there are tons of openly-revered nazi collaborators
besides Bandera in West Ukraine
No.576436
>>576294That's a big flag.
No.576439
>>576430>The maximum number of materiel and personnel in the AFU during peacetimebold (larger) is the Ukrainian position, cursive (smaller) is the Russian position
>Personnel: 250/85 thousand>Tanks: 800/342>Other armored fighting vehicles: 2400/1029>Gun artillery: 1900/519>Rocket artillery: 600/96>Anti-tank guns (?): 380/96>Mortars: 1080/147>ATGMS: 2000/333>AA missiles up to 75 km range: 200/190>AA guns: 119>portable AA: 608>Aircraft: 160/102, incl. 74/50 combat aircraft and 86/52 support aircraft No.576440
>>576439Seems like Russia considers tanks and similar to be an offensive army, and aircraft as defensive? Judging by the demands
No.576441
>>576427Yup! That's it.
>virgin Ukrop wehraboos LARPing as soldiers from 1944vs
>chad Russian sovietboos LARPing as soldiers from 1944 No.576443
>>576442Yeah, I was a bit confused since that's an outdated designation. Any artillery nowadays is an "anti-tank gun"
No.576444
>>576439Why such specific numbers?
No.576446
>>576443>Any artillery nowadays is an "anti-tank gun"Not really. Anti-tank guns work by being pointed
at the tank. Artillery works by lobbing shells.
You'll notice anti-tank guns have that shield, to protect the crew from small arms fire, meaning that they are meant to be deployed where they get in contact with infantry. Artillery is way behind the front, and it has Anti-Aircraft protection, but not small arms protection.
No.576447
>>576444Probably has to do with how many go into a typical unit
IIRC Versailles numbers were similarly autistic
No.576448
>>576444why not such specific numbers? If Russia asks for the demilitarization of ukraine, a number must be on the table. and that's seriously a limited number.
No.576449
>>576397>Marx has already theorised that under socialism private property and eventually the state withers away due to advance development of the productive forces outgrowing the existing relations of productionNo he doesn't. He theorized that the development of the productive forces outpaced the relations of production, which results in a revolution. The revolutionary government then actively expropriates the ruling class, thus eliminating private property, eventually causing the state to wither away as the conditions which necessitate it are abolished. Private property doesn't wither away the same way the state does, it its deliberately done away with. You're making it sound like China can just reach socialism by developing its productive forces enough, like it's just going to happen naturally if the line keeps going up, but at some point it will actually need to expropriate its bourgeoisie entirely.
No.576450
>>576449Engel's suggests expropriation via swapping private property with government bonds in a situation like current China in what he effectively described as the expropriators pensioning off the porkies as if they were being made redundant with the added bonus of them not even being able to complain that their property was stolen from them at one point iirc
No.576460
>>576459sweaty, because ukraine is not stained in the bloods of others, duh.
No.576462
>>576457mfw the deranged libs have gone from
>"Russia is East Ukraine! China is West Taiwan!" to
<"NATO is West Ukraine!" No.576463
>>576328It's very hard for structures to withstand direct nuclear hit, it's likely rated to survive a hit from a small distance away. Plus, directed munitions.
No.576464
https://nitter.net/VlStarodubtsev/status/1669975176337915905>Nova Poshta co-owner proposes that UA privatizes and deregulates all its education, close the Min of Education and stop funding any science and education related projects, as it harms the businessBack to the 90's baby, everything in cuckraine will get privatized.
No.576466
>>576451Is it me or is that vehicle pile got bigger
again?
No.576467
>>576466Definitely looks bigger to me too chief
Swear the first time I saw the pile up there were less and wider gaps
No.576468
>>576466It's bigger. First they sent more Bradleys to try and evacuate some of the vehicles, and then tried to do another smol counteroffensyiv through the exact same spot earlier this week iirc
No.576470
>>576385Can't socialists just advance the productive forves faster than capitalists since it's a more efficient form of governance
No.576472
>>576471what's wrong with onions
No.576473
>>576470That was Deng's wager yes
No.576475
>>576471the funniest thing about this image is that they have set their system to use a cursive font on the windows
No.576476
>>576469democrat glowops 100%.
No.576477
>>576439>it's versailles 2.0Finish the job Cucktin goddamnit. Germany rose again from Versailles, they didn't rise up from a full carving up and infrastructure destruction.
No.576478
>>576477nah the west and their coerced allies aren't ready to demonize the ukrainian nazis,
yet. it won't be Putin, btw.
No.576481
Why has nobody done a thorough denunciation of Rybar yet? Ukrainians are already all over their man, having sensed the Zrada
its quite newsworthy IMO, largest channels on their respective sides are secretly traitors/working together
No.576482
>>576473Didn't the USSR try to do the same
No.576483
>>576482Well they didn't try so much as succeed
Unfortunately for us the rot began with Kruschev not actually reading the
Economic Problems and cancelling tractor sharing and artels
No.576484
>>576438look at those rats in the comments defending their grandfathers/fathers
No.576485
>>576483Why did he do away with MTS?
No.576486
>Reddit lib mods still having their blackout tantrum, making thousands of subs private.
>But let /r/politics, /r/news, and /r/ukraine keep going.
Not suspicious at all.
No.576487
>>576385>2050 can become 2100China is already Socialist the '2050' goal is that of modernization.
>how can the USSR be claimed to be socialistThe Soviet Union had access to its own World System so being cut off from the global economy wasnt an instantaneous death sentence for its nation economy, although it later ran into major problems in the '80s.
>>576386Zhou Enlai was one who first proposed to get rid of that, not Deng.
>>576387>Socialism was possible 100 years ago, it's possible now. Yes it is 'possible' to cut your self off from the world economy in order to larp as lower stage Communism, but your country will fall behind and be destroyed. When Marx and Engels talked about achieving full lower stage Communism they thought of it being birthed from the most powerful and developed Capitalist countries (UK,USA,Germany,France, etc), thus they didnt account the fact that Socialism would have to contend with an Imperialist world system that will stop at nothing to destroy Communism. Socialism must be superior to Capitalism, if it isnt it wont survive..
No.576490
>>576216As I understand it kinzals have to slow down approaching a target because at hypersonic speeds they are covered in plasma that stops any navigation signals getting through. For the same reason you can't track them with radar until they slow. That slowing down buys you ~20 seconds to spot, aim, fire and intercept something that is still pretty fast - it just isn't happening. You are more likely to get lucky by one malfuntioning.
No.576491
https://twitter.com/johnnyjmils/status/1670073019966926849journo talks to civs in mariupol
nafoid butthurt aplenty in the comments
No.576493
>>576474>nato needs to apply to join ukraineAs I said, the higher on the hierarchy you imagine yourself to be, the more entitled you feel to support.
No.576495
>>576491I also love liberals experiencing cognitive dissonance always use the word "surreal".
No.576497
>>576496Ukraine, from before the SMO.
No.576498
>>576492>Candace Rondeaux is the Senior Director for the Future Frontlines program at New America, an open-source public intelligence service for next generation security and democratic resilience. She also directs the Planetary Politics initiative, a cross-disciplinary program that aims to find solutions to the wicked problems posed by digitization and decarbonization in a multipolar world.
>Rondeaux is also a professor of practice with the Center on the Future of War at Arizona State University and a faculty affiliate with ASU’s Melikian Center for Russian, Eurasian and East European Studies. She is also lecturer and instructor in security studies at George Washington University and Tulane University. She has covered the rise of the Wagner Group since 2018, traveling to Ukraine and other hotspots frequently for field research. Fluent in Russian, she has testified in Congress on Russia’s strategic use of irregular paramilitaries around the world. Prior to joining New America, she led the RESOLVE Network for the U.S. Institute of Peace, a global research consortium on conflict and violent extremism. She served as a strategic adviser for the Lessons Learned Program at the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan, where she helped lay the foundations for one of the most comprehensive archives of interviews with decision makers on America’s longest war. She has covered political violence and armed conflicts around the world, including in Afghanistan and Pakistan where she covered the conflict there as bureau chief for the Washington Post and senior analyst for the International Crisis Group in Kabul for five years.
>An award-winning investigative journalist, Rondeaux started her reporting career by covering cops, courts, and crises as a staff reporter for the Post, St. Petersburg Times, New York Daily News, and New York Observer. A regular contributor to the Intercept, Daily Beast, and World Politics Review, she was part of the Pulitzer Prize–winning team at the Washington Post that covered the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007. She started her career in book publishing in New York, handling translations and supporting global rights management for Franklin & Siegal Associates and HarperCollins. She holds a B.A. in Russian Area Studies from Sarah Lawrence College, an M.A. in Journalism from New York University, and a M.P.P. in International Affairs from Princeton University.soooo, a glowie.
No.576499
>>576492>>576498>Candace Rondeaux is the Senior Director for the Future Frontlines program at New America<As of 2017, the New America had net assets of $26,788,098.[1] Top donors to the organization in 2021 included the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Bloomberg Philanthropies, Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, and United States Department of State.>Prior to joining New America, she led the RESOLVE Network for the U.S. Institute of Peace, a global research consortium on conflict and violent extremism. <The United States Institute of Peace (USIP) is an American federal institution … USIP was established in 1984 by congressional legislation signed into law by President Ronald Reagan.>She served as a strategic adviser for … the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan>in Afghanistan and Pakistan … she covered the conflict there as bureau chief for the Washington Post and senior analyst>senior analyst for the International Crisis Group in Kabul for five years<The Swedish ONG Transnational Foundation for Peace and Future Research alleged in 2005 that the ICG board of directors' had close ties to Western governments, a lack of independent scholars, and an absence of an objective standard theoretical framework.GLOW LEVEL OFF THE SCALE
No.576500
>>576353>M-55S is a 1990s complete overhaulLMAO the sheer /k/ope, the M-55S is the same old ass T-55, just with ERA blocks and new sights. The T-55M is a better armored tank in base if you take the ERA off of the M-55S, by the sheer fact of having laminated armor added on to its hull front, and spaced additive armor on the turret called "Brezhnev's Eyebrows". Both are irrelevant, because the T-55 is vulnerable to basically any anti-tank weapon currently fielded, and ERA isn't going to change that fact. It's a mobile pillbox and the rifled gun is good for accurate long range fire, making it a heavily armored SPA system.
No.576501
>>576496Stop posting shitty gore
No.576502
>>576341The Ukrainians fired several hundred HIMARS rockets at the thing, and while the Russian SAM forced intercepted most of them, enough hit to do damage. Rockets can be set to detonate after embedding themselves to maximize structural damage, pair that with a sudden release of floodgates upriver and you get enough pressure to bust a dam.
No.576504
>>576503>someone else, please to the bare fucking minimum possible labour on an imageboardget fucked cunt
No.576505
>>576353Overhaul of fucking what? The base armor or the gun? Neither? It's just extra ERA plates? Shut up and stop coping.
No.576508
>>576507Spain without blood or monarchy. :^)
No.576510
Offensyiv status?
No.576512
>>576510it has psychologically broken through to melitopol now
No.576514
>>576512Actually, they are psychologically occupying Ankara.
No.576515
>>576492>Those demonic crazy eyes Genuinely frightning. All the devils have made their home in the West.
No.576516
>>576511Realistically, what'll happen if they don't go full out with what they have left in an offensive by the end of this summer?
No.576519
>>576516>wut happen to the ukraine if things keep going in this tragic farcical railroadSad
So many chances for this to have been avoided
So much thrown away for the Burger Reich and perfidious Albion
Makes a person contemplate whether they'd hit the red button and nuke washington and london if they had it in front of it
No.576521
>>576517the bougies are spending their time making this kind of shit while the poor are actually doing the fighting lol
No.576524
>>576516that Nato summit is July 11-12, so they probably have to go full out before that.
realistically, they've lost already.
No.576526
>>576524>Nato summit is July 11-12Love "countries" having to make military strategic decisions based off signalling strength to their vassalage patrons.
No.576528
>>576521Well, a WW2 museum somewhere in Ukraine is missing an armored car.
No.576530
>>576511Counteroffensyv status:
>The Russians are on the offensive (across their big ass defense perimeter, from behind their minefields) and therefore no advances means we are winning>It hasn't started>The losses are not real<Its merely a test ←←←>The losses are not real (again)>Those villages are really important! The enemy is in rout! We are unstoppable! To victory!>The enemy is desperate, they are about to use nuclear|chemical weapons! Quick stop the fighting! (please) >"Russia claims to…" "the statements could not be independently verified" "Please respect operational silence">It was all a psyop, in your head, nothing was real>The losses are severe but greatly our favor>HELP WE ARE BEING GENOCIDED! No.576532
>>576530>It hasn't startedMacron said it started a few days ago, so I don't think the West is going to indulge Ukraine's bullshit. The West wants results.
On the other hand, I think the whole "West will soon pull support" thing is an op.
No.576535
Why is Ukraine so important anyway? Why not just the two countries fight it out let it be?
No.576537
What I'd love to see China do is say something like "We have been trying to get a peace arrangement, but NATO aggression is persistent. If NATO countries continue to supply arms to Taiwan and Ukraine, threatening our own national security, we will be forced to begin supplying our own arms to our allies."
But our side wouldn't dream of it…
No.576539
>>576532Support won't get pulled. Westoids have shown an absolute inability to cut their losses throughout history.
No.576542
>>576539>Support won't get pulled. Westoids have shown an absolute inability to cut their losses throughout history.I think that Ukraine is too important as a border/transit state and US handle on Europe to let it go. If it really was about partitioning Europe for themselves, then the USA dropping Ukraine or letting it fall into the European NATO to deal with, it woudl be giving up a bargaining chip and economic interests overturning US dictates. And this seems specially relevant if the USA wants to turn to China because that surely would include big demands of European trade as well.
Also I think Ukraine's new government is useful to keep around as virtuous rightoids to center when it comes the time to frame something as explicitly anti-socialist/communist.
No.576545
>>576363>Reactionary right wing nationalist government create reactionary right wing policies>b-but critical support guiseLet this be a reminder that the only critical support you should offer are to the nations/countries/movements that genuinely want a socialist government.
Save your "critical" support for them.
No.576548
>>576539>Except Vietnam>And Afghanistan>Bolivia>Syria>VenezuelaYou know, I think a NATO has been pulling way too much support recently, they can't keep doing it and remain at the same level.
No.576552
Thoughts on this blog?
<SITREP 6/15/23: Kakhovka Powerplay Heats Up as AFU Readies For Round 2https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-61523-kakhovka-powerplay-heats>>576363Is it banning HRT? Otherwise, the clear anti-LGBT framing aside, it seems pretty reasonable to have sex reassignment surgery require adulthood.
No.576554
>>576550I mean there are wars in the world still going on that have killed way more people than the Ukraine war, but they aren't in Europe so nobody gives a shit.
No.576556
>>576554Difference here is that it's not a NATO play not panning out, like Syria, it's a NATO enemy
actively fighting back and defying them. This cannot stand.
No.576560
For those who are concerned about the meta here, the quicker Russia wins and the Burger reich loses the quicker we can go back to the fun posting struggle sessions on the issues involving Gender and Sexual Minorities instead of awkwardly wandering back to the 1930's era soviet union and it's social mores
No.576567
>>576545Yep thats right, no supporting Palestine or Yemen. Fuck them
No.576569
>>576562Bruh the most exciting thing from this would be a biblical flood of molten lead that covers the lands.
No.576575
>>5765671. Palestine actually has a communist movement.
2. Russia isn't being genocided by Ukraine, wheras Palestine and Yemen are being actively genocided by imperialist/ neo-colonial governments.
3. Pretty sure Palestine or Yemen suffers from oligarchs who are turning a profit because of this war.
Nice false equivalence.
>>576571>In the modern day, we would understand that progressive Russia is dealing a blow to the reactionary and dwindling western powers. >New social order not dependent on the hegemony of the United StatesGermany is making bang for their back by continuing to do trade deals with Russia, and Russia's invasion has only emboldened other European members to join NATO. While it can be said to strike a blow against the US and hell even the UK, other imperialist powers within western Europe have benfitted from the war. The bourgoise are only progressive in so far that they are made subservient to a socialist government, otherwise as Lenin said (if you actually did read them) they will inevitably serve their own interest. Russia has no interest in being a progressive force, but rather an oppositional one to challenge US hegemony. It brings nothing but the continuation of international capitalism, only one in which the US won't have a monopoly on- which as we know is not a garuntee of the emergence of socialism. This is petty campism and you know it.
And if what is quoted by Lenin is within context, then surprise surprise, Lenin was wrong. The national bourgoise are not to be trusted and they must be brought to heel to serve a socialist movement.
To say only a DotP can be supported isn't a cop-out, it's actually to hold to your principles and realise that this is a bullshit capitalist war which has resulted in neither the advancement of the working class, but rather the bourgoise growing in wealth while thousands of people are killed and displaced from their homes.
No.576577
>>576575Secondly, in regards to homophobia- this doesn't mean that two wrongs ought to make a right. You can call out the Russian government for what it does to its civillians, but that doesn't mean that the civillians themselves deserve genocide or any Russian for that matter.
There is a clear power imbalance between Palestine and Russia, a clear difference in conflict, and a clear difference in history and you know it
No.576579
>>576575>The national bourgoise are not to be trusted and they must be brought to heel to serve a socialist movement.https://archive.is/CNp7X!
No.576581
>>5765751. Palestine has no more of a communist movemnet than Russia
2. Yes they are and what do you think would happen if Ukronazis entered the Donbass or Crimea?
3. Not even sure what you are trying to say here because it is so poorly written
No.576584
>>576575I think at the end of the day you need to just admit that your analysis is just infantile Yemen and Palestine are good because they are small and Russia is bad because they are good. You literally cannot explain in any way why critical support is ok for Yemen and Palestine but not Russia (despite none of them being socialist) besides the virtue of being small and bullied
No.576586
>>576584Why shouldn't we support people who are being victimised?
No.576588
>>576586I didn't say we shouldn't. He is the one who said you cannot offer critical support to anyone besides socialist movements
No.576590
>>576575>1. Palestine actually has a communist movementContrary to the impression given by the lying western media the communists not the liberals are the largest and most effective opposition in Russia not the vowsh tier shitlibs they parade out as the russian opposition
No.576592
>>576586But being attacked is not virtuous in and of itself or you get nonsense like Finland and Poland were virtuous in 1939 or Tibet was virtuous in the 50's.
No.576594
>>576590The KPRF are a fucking joke though, complete controlled opposition and right wingers to boot.
No.576596
>>576594They are useless but how are they right wing?
No.576601
>>576592Well I kinda think invading Finland was wrong, as for the other two, Poland was harm reduction, and Tibet was a feudalist shithole that was much better off after being invaded. If the people of these countries would be better off if the countries oppressing them won then we should support the invading country but obviously that's not the case in Palestine or Yemen.
>>576596Wasn't it one of them who proposed the latest gay panic bill?
No.576603
>>576601Finland was also quasi-fascist just like Poland. And the people of Ukraine would be better off if their fascist regime was removed
No.576607
>>576588Worth noting here that Putin dragged his heels and did everything to avoid this confrontation short of curling up at Biden's feet in a gimp suit
It was in fact a motion by the communist opposition to recognise the Donbass People's republics as they were coming under attack by the Kievan regimes literal Nazi forces that forced Putin's hand
The political damage a big giant sized Odessa incident style happening right on the Russian border when the communists had recognised the republics left him no choice
It's actually hilarious that Burgers carry on about the Putin dictatorship
He's the motherfucking Angela Merkle of Russia and the Russian political system is the one that acts like libs thinks bourgeois representative diplomacy ideally and the burger political system that operates in the liberal stereotype of Russia
No.576609
>>576603If the USSR had annexed Finland I think I would have supported the winter war more, as is it just seems pretty silly and cynical. Like Finland is evil enough to invade but we also can't be bothered to remove their government.
As for Ukraine, well, I dunno, I kinda think the Russian and Ukrainian governments are as bad as each other. Maybe the Ukrainian is marginally worse but not sure this war is worth it on that basis alone.
No.576611
>>576607>Russian political system is the one that acts like libs thinks bourgeois representative diplomacy ideally*closer to how libs
*operates idealy
No.576613
>>576579See, that's what im talking about, though I hardly see how this compares to russia as they seek to maintain their oligarchs in power.
>>576584>I think at the end of the day you need to just admit that your analysis is just infantile Yemen and Palestine are good because they are small and Russia is bad because they are good.I've yet to see Palestine engage in acts of imperialism and supression of ethnic minorities like the Russian Federation has- including but not limited to their supression of the Chechneans or Sami people.
>>576581
>1. Palestine has no more of a communist movemnet than Russiahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine
>2. Yes they are and what do you think would happen if Ukronazis entered the Donbass or Crimea?Ethnic Russians of seperatist republics, not civillians of the Russian government. The Ukraine was bombing seperatist republics who were rightfuly resisting a US backed coup. But as I stated, this has now lead to Russia co-opting a national liberation movement. In 2014, The Ukraine didn't go out of its way to launch an invasion into Russia and start killing their civillians.
3. Not even sure what you are trying to say here because it is so poorly written
Im trying to say that this war won't bring about socialism, but rather just build up and maintain capitalism- albeit one without the US- that is if Russia wins this war and NATO is crippled.
Furthermore
Neither Palestine nor Yemen have gotten to the point of being a major capitalist power, or one that exterts and element of hegemony. And you have the audacity to call me infantile.
No.576615
>>576573can't believe ukraine conscripted sargon
No.576617
>>576588>I didn't say we shouldn't. He is the one who said you cannot offer critical support to anyone besides socialist movements<guys we must support governments that knowingly repress and neuter socialist orgs and working class movements and benefit oligarchs…. because they're fighting the other government knowingly represses and neuter socialist orgs and working class movements and benefits oligarchs… because… WeLL JuST bECaUsE ok You uLtra Pathetic.
No.576618
>>576613>In 2014, The Ukraine didn't go out of its way to launch an invasion into Russia and start killing their civillians.So?
Literal Nazis on this side of the border or that side doing literal Nazi things with the illegitimate burger puppet regime's full support and backing
What is distinction?
No.576622
I’m a little z-pill short and stout
How’s the war proceeding
No.576624
>>576622The counter-testfensyiv is going according to plan. Moscow to surrender soon.
No.576626
>>576617><guys we must support governments that knowingly repress and neuter socialist orgs and working class movements and benefit oligarchs…. because they're fighting the other government knowingly represses and neuter socialist orgs and working class movements and benefits oligarchs… because… WeLL JuST bECaUsE ok You uLtraThe premise of your argument is contested →
>>576607You've got to defend your premise here before furthering your logic based on this premise
No.576628
>>576517is he tryna sing en espanol lol
No.576630
>>576613Russia in no way suppresses the Chechen people. The Chechen Republic is basically autonomous within the Russian Federation. While the Chechen wars were horrible. The 2nd Chechen War occurred because US/SA/Israelis ensured that the salafi faction won power in Chechnya and invaded Dagestan (after Russia gave them de facto independence following the first war). When the Russians won, they gave pretty much full autonomy to Chechnya and the Chechens purged the Salafists and returned to their traditional sufi ways.
As for Sami people, I don't know much about them but I used to live in the Mari El Republic (which is not autonomous and is ruled over by Russians, to be fair it is over half Russian) and don't really think Russia suppressed them in any way and more just didn't give a shit about their culture (as opposed to the Soviet Union who nurtured their culture). I don't think that's right thing to do, but I fail to see how Russia suppresses them any more than say the Kurds have suppressed their ethnic minorities. Obviously, I should reiterate that in every way this is inferior to the Soviet model but again when you are comparing them to non-socialist countries, this is a completely moot point
No.576633
>>576613>supression of ethnic minorities like the Russian Federation has- including but not limited to their supression of the Chechneans or Sami peopleSource?
No.576635
>>576617>one country is allied with the largest socialist country in the world>one country is allied with the country who's greatest goal is to destroy the largest socialist country in the world<wtf I can't figure out which one is preferable>also forgot to mention the second country is also fascist, worships nazis, actively stated their goal is the eradication of russians from their country and made it literally illegal to join a union<damn these still seem exactly the same to me"pathetic" indeed
No.576637
>>576635Heh, some Russian antiwar leftists have apparently given up on trying to paint Russia as the imperialist in the light of mounting evidence that it didn't prepare for nor want the SMO, and are instead trying to push the narrative that it's a proxy war between the US and China with Russia as China's vassal.
Of course if that was the case I'd be even more Z.
>China is waiting for Russia to weaken itself so it can collect its debts in the form of Siberia!Good, I'll be there for my Chinese passport.
No.576640
>>576626>the communist party made him do it Yes, Im sure the fact that the DPR and LPR repressed their respected communist parties and instead have parties that are more Pro-Russia than Pro-Communist has nothing to do with it.
>>576630>Russia in no way suppresses the Chechen people. Stopped reading there. You fully well knew what the first Chechen wars were about.
>But Russia grants the chechnens their own autonomous republic While being part of the Russian federation and only acting within the guidelines that the Russian federation serves them- they are not equals to the Russian government. I may as well say Australia doesn't currently repress indigenous Australians because we have the voice/ indigenous members in parliament.
No.576642
>>576640Maybe you should stick to talking about Australia? Because you haven't in any of your posts demonstrated you know anything about Russia
No.576644
>>576635>one country is allied with the largest socialist country in the worldSaid socialist country also does trade deals with Saudi Arabia which knowingly genocides yemeni people, alongside advocating a two state solution to Palestine- something which most Palestinians reject.
>one country is allied with the country who's greatest goal is to destroy the largest socialist country in the world.A socialist country which currently has more economic soft power if not equal to the united states. The US is still willing to do trade deals with China, and sees it as an economic competitor- China itself has yet to contribute anything meanigful to the death of international capitalism other than continuing to do trade deals with socialist countries that the US has embargo'd, offering them financial support, but by no means a meaningful way to overall end the embargo. Now are there reasons for it that are out of China's control- of course, but a spade is still a spade.
>also forgot to mention the second country is also fascist, worships nazis, actively stated their goal is the eradication of russians from their country and made it literally illegal to join a unionAs opposed to a country that's getting it's philosophical underpinnings from Dugin. Since when do two wrongs make a right?
><damn these still seem exactly the same to me>"pathetic" indeed<I'm not owned, i'm not owned No.576646
>>576644Oh so you are also an anti-China goon. Not bothering with you anymore. Kill yourself chomo
No.576650
>>576644>As opposed to a country that's getting it's philosophical underpinnings from Dugin. Since when do two wrongs make a right? I don't think highly of ziggers and Cucktin, but they aren't getting any inspiration from Dugin.
He is pretty irrelevant from a philosophical POV, he just edge-coated nationalistic Kremlin talking points lately.
So the relation is reverse, the government sets the tone and Dugin repeats with his own spin.
No.576652
>>576640>Stopped reading there. You fully well knew what the first Chechen wars were about. You can't just "well, it's self-evident" out of this one. How exactly are Chechens suppressed in Russia? Give specific examples and incidents. They have a national autonomy, Chechen is an official republican language which is taught in schools, they are allowed to practice Islam and have the largest mosque in Europe. If Russians in Ukraine were as "repressed" as Chechens are in Russia, there would be no war, because Chechnya's autonomy exceeds the initial demands of Donbass federalists.
No.576654
>>576644Why should we care what Palestinians want when they are just reactionary right wing nationalists?
No.576656
>>576642hrrrm
>>576640My brother in Marx do you even know about the Odessa incident?
No.576658
>>576622Catastrophic Ukrainian losses in pyatixatki although they have captured the village
Some kind of Russian ammo depot was just destroyed in Kherson oblast, supposedly by a Ukrainian air force? Drones perhaps?
No.576660
>>576658Catastrophic how? 2k dead?
No.576662
>>576646>ur anti-china if you point out policies it's currenlty engaged in ok, bitch.
>>576654>calling every single palestinian a reactionary right wing nationalist<in spite of evidence provided of a communist movment that's fighting israelok, lad.
No.576664
>>576662Halloa sir, I am wondering if perhaps you missed my post querying you on whether you are aware of the Odessa incident
No.576666
>>576662Russia has a communist movement as well but you were happy to throw them under the bus.
Also, what exactly is the Palestinian communist movements stance on LGBT issues?
No.576670
>Palestine
>socialist
uhhh OK boomer, it's no longer 1978.
No.576679
>>576668>u-ur an ultraMeaningless buzzword. Cope.
>>576664Im fully aware of the Odessa incident, and hell i've touched on it- that doesn't stop the fact that the LPR and DPR are now serving as proxies for Russian policy, after having their national liberation movements co-opted by them.
>>5766661. Except i didn't.
2. The communist party was right in pointing out the sovereignty of the LPR and DPR but as i said- the LPR and DPR have notably thrown their own communist movements under the bus.
>Also, what exactly is the Palestinian communist movements stance on LGBT issues?I wouldn't know as i've yet to see any sources on them. And if they were anti-LGBTQ that's certainly a problem, but that's more deserving of critical support as opposed to a bunch of russian nationalists.
No.576683
>>576679(me)
Besides, a communist movement has a better chance of actually discovering and coming to the conclusion that LGBTQ people aren't deragned/ corrupted bourgoise decadence.
the DDR and Cuba being prime examples- hell even China allows for gender reassignment surgery in particular provinces.
No.576685
>>576679>meaningless buzzwordNope, it describes retards like you pretty well. You're not interested in a proletarian revolution, you're not interested in dislodging global American hegemony, you just want to sit on a morally high pedestal of your own making whilst accepting the global dominance of the US because "at least it's not X or Y".
Frankly I don't even care if Russia, Iran or any other non-western country is bad, the US is still at least ten times worse and the American state needs to be destroyed first and foremost.
There is no justice in this world until the USA as we know it is dead and buried.
No.576687
>>576601It was about not trusting Finland not to let Germans in to flank Leningrad when war eventually breaks out. Thats why Kremlin saw that border readjustment was needed and they proposed a land swap the Karelian tribe areas (that Finland had raided just after the Finnish civil war in expansion sense) further north with the ares close to Leningrad. It was not bout Finland being a threat by themselves or being "evil". Those who do not know Finnish civil war had ended in less than two decades ago in German intervention on the white side. The country was run by ex-white guard that most definitely were german sympathizers.
No.576689
>>576679>1. Except i didn't. In
>>576545 you said people shouldn't critically support Russia because reactionaries currently hold power. I hate to break it to you but in Palestine religious reactionaries hold more power than they do in Russia.
Seems like you just wanted to play a game of both sides while still pretending to support Palestine.
>I wouldn't know as i've yet to see any sources on them. And if they were anti-LGBTQ that's certainly a problem, but that's more deserving of critical support as opposed to a bunch of russian nationalists.<calling every single Russian a reactionary right wing nationalist No.576695
>>576689Yeah this guy still is just dancing around the fact that his entire world view is that small countries are virtuous and big countries are bad. He would rather dance around this fact than just admit its ok to critically support Russia. It would be more bearable if he wasn't both autistic and narcissistic to the point that he replies endlessly for hours like he actually has something interesting or insightful to say
No.576697
>>576695His crying about China also proves this when China literally negotiated peace in Yemen and between Iran and Saudi Arabia
No.576699
>>576672>>576693ACTUALLY EXISTING BROCIALISM
No.576702
>>576695I would also like to say a lot of the "analysis" of the more /isg/ types (for lack of a better term, they aren't really ultras because ultras are just completely autistic and will happily say they don't care about Palestine, they just coopt ultra rhetoric whenever it is expedient) really are driven by hatred of Russia specifically because they see it as an extension of their own culture war in their western countries. Amusingly, they refer to those who critically support Russia as "contrarian"", and in their mind I don't even think it is in bad faith. I think they legitimately can't believe that their opponents are not marred in the same ideological dead end that they are. Thus, if someone is critically supporting Russia, it must be because they want to "own the libs"
No.576704
>>576691Ukrainians are hitting a proverbial brick wall along the Zaporizhia front. Whatever little ground they gain is almost immediately retaken by the Russians and are losing a shitton of NATO hardware in the process.
No.576706
>>576672>>576677>>576681>>576693this proves the reactionary and misogynistic nature of this general thread
No.576712
>>576706MORE WOMAN OLIGARCHS
PUTIN SHOULD HAVE SAT HIS ASS DOWN AND LISTENED
No.576716
>>576689>In >>576545 you said people shouldn't critically support Russia because reactionaries currently hold power.This whole thread is filled to the brim with people sucking off Cucktin, a conservative politician who isn't even a good reactionary.
Critical support for Russia is either Russia circlejerking or hoping for beneficial effects anywhere else but Russia.
A Russian victory in Ukraine will cement reactionary power in Russia well into the distant future. A Russian defeat would just result in another reactionary taking it's place.
No.576722
>>576716Russian victory = NATO defeat
It's really that simple
No.576728
>>576720>>literally the term Cucktin is used more than his actual nameYeah, this is what happens when reality doesn't live up to the insane strongman politician propaganda.
They say Cucktin because they probably expected him to be the reincarnation of Attila, Stalin and Hannibal at once and do more le based and le redpilled stuff.
No.576736
>>576732NTA but feminist doesn't mean you're a woman. it's an ideological label tbf
No.576738
>>576728You seem very butthurt. Here's what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to make a chrome extension that changes every single 3 words in /ukraine/ to "muh both sides" so you won't have more mental breakdowns over the fact that people have slightly different analyses to yours
No.576740
>when /leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect is not supporting a cucktator that disdains communism
No.576742
>>576736anarch
a signals femininity. and yes, i know what these people and their ideology are, I have seen them wreck multiple organizations
No.576744
>>576740>you support Cucktin<no i don't>well you wish he was stalin🤔
No.576746
>>576740you seem to be upset that people wish for the fall of the imperial hegemon - why does that make you angry?
No.576752
>>576748>>576746>>576744>>576738Found the Cucktinists. Anglo cruise missiles hit a large ammo dump and possibly another base in the last 24 hours, but Cucktin still delivered zero of the promised direct repercussions against the eternal Albion.
Cucktin drew a red line at delivering lethal aid to Ukraine, which devolved to a red line against artillery, tanks, missiles and finally planes.
There is no sane reason why one should stan this moron.
No.576756
>>576697>China literally negotiated peace in Yemen and between Iran and Saudi ArabiaI may just be too cynical, but I read these "peace negotiations" as "non aligned" concession hedging than settling disputes. It just so happens that the US wants war and China wants trade. Which is a good start, but it's still a literal bid for peace, which can just as well be outbid.
>>576728I know it's a lib classic, but it's still funny when Putin says something anti-LGBT sounding, after doing male model photoshoots and playing the stoic teetotaler strongman. Like, it's ironic in general when these figures (western included), themselves completely above laws or taboos comment on virtue, law or values. But come on, your public persona is just fitter, gayer, Steve Seagal.
No.576758
>>576716>This whole thread is filled to the brim with people sucking off CucktinAs has been established already, no it isn't. Even when people here thought Cucktin was more competent there wasn't much (unironic) admiration of the man, just the hope that he would be an effective foil to NATO and Ukro-Nazis.
>Critical support for Russia is either Russia circlejerking or hoping for beneficial effects anywhere else but Russia.Nope, we were just talking about the communist movement in Russia. I regularly express the hope that Cucktin stalling the war might give the CPRF or other Russian communists a chance at taking power.
>A Russian victory in Ukraine will cement reactionary power in Russia well into the distant future. A Russian defeat would just result in another reactionary taking it's place.So many motherfuckers even dumber than Trotsky on this issue.
No.576760
>>576708>>576710>>576714>>576718>>576724way to prove my point, boys =-/
>>576732>leftist politically incorrectwhat you're doing is
rightist politically incorrect.
leftist politically incorrect is pic related. =-) happy to help you understand
>>576742you're overthinking it sweetie. men can and should be feminists. all real communists are also feminists. ☭☭☭☭☭
No.576763
>>576752>OMG UKRAINE IS WINNING!111!Oh look, another westoid falling for his country's propaganda
No.576765
so im guessing because of all the anti-putin cope it means the russian military made some advances recently
No.576768
>>576765btw unlimited genocide of NATO
No.576773
>>576756>going topless in the sun is actually gayI will never understand how liberals get away with blatant homophobia. But it nicely reveals that LGBT "concerns" are simply a cudgel against their ideological enemies. The "rights" they pride themselves with are only a few years old and subconciously they know that they are on thin ice even in their own nations, so they have to use them to maximum effect internationally while they still can. Tragic, especially for LGBT minorities, but not unexpected
No.576775
>>576760>being leftist politically correct is posting r/socialism memes from 2015just admit the video is funny
No.576777
>>576763>>OMG UKRAINE IS WINNING!111!You said that. In fact, even while losing, Ukraine kills ordinary Russians with weapons that would not be delivered if Cucktin didn't appease and condition the West into crossing Russian red lines absolutely uncontested.
No.576779
>>576773>LGBT derail>>1502121>topless slut derailbroads,
shushthe menfolk are talking
No.576781
>>576777I agree Putin is a cuck but realistically what do you want him to do? He gave nukes to Belarus and they still don't care
No.576783
>>576771Sex once a month in the missionary position with the lights off is the objective Leninist position.
No.576785
Shit I'm seeing from the Ukrainians is approaching highway of death tier. Iraqis were smart enough to give up at this point. Ukrainians still rush forward to certain death because they've been brainwashed by fascism
No.576787
>>576775reactionaries often hide behind "humor," honey.
>r/socialism memes from 2015i see imageboards are your safe space and material from outside the edgy milieu of imageboards is offensive to your snowflake feelings
No.576791
>>576787lol ok at first I thought you were serious but this is a pretty good bit ngl
No.576793
>>576781Let us all be reminded that "cucktin" started a fucking war when west didn't back down on genociding Donbass and getting ukraine into nato. Nobody ever say again that Kremlin just lets west walk over them as they please.
No.576799
>>576795don't care as long as you are not a muh both sides chomo
No.576801
>>576781>realistically what do you want him to do?What about actually increasing his efforts in
fighting the Ukrainian army? Controversial, I know. Cucktin-defenders like tankposter will immediately kick and scream. They will pull out the strawmen that increasing effort actually means nuking the place or bombing civilians, but, no, you can simply increase your regular war effort, Cucktin. It was hinted several times that a new invasion from a different direction was an option to keep the Ukrops on their feet, but nothing ever happened.
No.576803
>>576801The Ukrainian army is currently being obliterated
No.576807
>>576781>I agree Putin is a cuck but realistically what do you want him to do? He gave nukes to Belarus and they still don't careBasically anything that isn't symbolism at this point.
Even "giving" nukes to Belarus is just symbolism. They're still Russian. Russian nukes also exist in international waters of the Atlantic and Pacific ocean. Are the US goong to just nuke the whales if Russia launches a nuclear missile from the Atlantic?
Are they just nuking Belarus if a Russian nuke starts from there?
The physical location of nukes is far secondary to the ownership.
No.576810
>>576801>more Russian soldiers need to die so I can see colours change on my Telegram mapsSilence, child
No.576812
>>576809it's very easy to turn the flag off, sweetie. sorry i've triggered you =-)
>>576797no. you shush.
>>576799i am in favor of the global south crushing the global north. it's a shame that p00tin is the tip of the spear, but i accept it
No.576816
>>576812>removes flag so cant be filtered>adds name so can be filteredok
No.576818
>>576812>i am in favor of the global south crushing the global north. it's a shame that p00tin is the tip of the spear, but i accept itGood, so you can accept that your criticisms of Russia are worthless until America is dead
No.576822
>>576820lmao cucktin looks so smug in that photo
No.576826
>>576807>Even "giving" nukes to Belarus is just symbolismAre you retarded? How are nukes "symbolism"? They are direct protection against color-revolutions, like the one attempted just a few years ago. And how is moving nukes closer to NATO "symbolism"? He has to show some kind of threat because his cuck behaviour allowed NATO to become way to comfortable
No.576832
>>576818sweetie, i never criticized russia. i criticized the misogyny of this thread. =-)
the russian people have a proud history of countering misogyny faster than their european counterparts
No.576834
>>576832If you can't handle a bit of edgy humour then fuck off back to Twitter you normie loser
No.576840
>>576810>more Russian soldiers need to die so I can see colours change on my Telegram mapssee, exactly the strawmen I'm talking about. thank you for proving my point in mere seconds after I posted. grinding thousands of your own troops to pulp because you're too cucked for a quick victory that your armed forces are obviously capable of is simply pathetic.
>>576828>it doesn't matter that thousands of Ukronazis and billions in NATO equipment are being liquidated, I need my fast victory so I can post memes on the internethuh, you were just concern trolling about Russian losses, but now they're suddenly a-ok, just minutes later. It seems that criticism of Cucktin's cuck behaviour and his obvious sympathies for the west that stop him from doing what he knows is necessary make you upset - why is that?
No.576842
>>576838don't make me get the leash =-)
No.576846
>>576836Go away genderpol schizo
No.576850
>>576844compensating =-)
>>576846here's some soviet genderpol for you
No.576852
>>576836>women are good at estimating lengthlmao
No.576858
>>576828>>it doesn't matter that thousands of Ukronazis and billions in NATO equipment are being liquidated, I need my fast victory so I can post memes on the internet>fastAgain, you're building straw mans.
>we're letting the mass shooter run rampage for another hour because that cost him a thousand bullets at least No.576863
>>576848>waaaaaa Russia didn't take Kiev in 2 weeks and now I look stupid in front of my liberal friends waaaaaaaaCite where I said that.
Cucktins own plan was swift victory but in his foolishness and subconcious adoration of the West
he had no backup plan No.576867
>>576861I didn't make it I just saved it, but yes I do have a sentimental attachment to it
Here's one that predates the /pol/ boardsplit and the /lit/ hejira
No.576871
Observe how shills now use Cucktin instead of Putler to try to blend in.
No.576878
>The Cucktin SMO must be going according to le Plan because *I* want it to be won in a flawless victory whilst I sit in the cushy imperial core and shitpost on the internet
No.576879
Ukraine counteroffensive losing momentum against Russian fortifications
<Kyiv’s counteroffensive is losing ground against Russia’s heavily fortified positions.
<Airstrikes and artillery attacks are reportedly slowing Ukraine’s advance.https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/global-affairs/ukraine-counteroffensive-losing-momentum-against-russian-fortifications/video/8cca71399323bf2293cf489359699641Ummmm Ukropbros… western media is reporting the counteroffensive isn't going so well. How do we damage control this?
No.576883
>>576878Well if you think you know more about how this war should be won because you play so much HoI4 then I suggest you go volunteer for the front lines. Otherwise shut the fuck up and let actual military people handle this.
No.576885
>>576869>>576871>Oh, you want Russia to beat NATO? Hrmpf, that is actually a NATO positionThe absolute state of /ukraine/. We reached that point at sometime last week, but glad we could go there again, lmao
No.576887
>>576871sweetie if you actually lurked for as long as i have you'd know that 'cucktin' came from the angry little man known as iron felix =-)
No.576889
>anfem master baiter immediately derails the thread
damn I guess Langley finally figured out the most effective method of derailing threads after trying the "muh both sides" shit for a year
No.576890
>>576889sweetie plenty of people are talking about the SMO in between my posts. no need to be so upset. you attribute far too much power to me =-)
No.576892
if russia wins it means westerners will get a higher rates of ownership as the world will shrink for the wests hegemonic dominance and more concesisions will need to be made to workers to stop them for asking for the same that the east has
No.576894
Considering the inverse relationship of this thread getting shat on and the success of the ukrainian troops on the battlefield, it seems that the latest attack on P'yatykhatky must really have been as catastrophic as russian telegram sources describe it.
No.576896
>>576871It's Cucktin and not Putler because Putin isn't even acknowledging his enemies as what they are.
It's Cucktin because he is some bureaucrat weirdo that doesn't even micromanage his army and generals.
Also Cucktin because he would never have the balls to swallow the KCN and off himself with a bullet.
No.576898
>>576889works flawlessly in real life, too. witnessed it many times unfortunately
No.576900
>>576894The biggest liberal butthurt online always comes when Ukrops are getting their shit packed in contrary to delusional Western expectations. It's the most delicious form of copium
No.576902
>>576900>The biggest liberal butthurt online always comes when Ukrops are getting their shit packed in contrary to delusional Western expectationsso
always? =-)
No.576906
>>576900It's just this thread moving up in the catalog and people from the rest of the board come visit.
Happens on all boards, especially 4chan when they scream pol or reddit, it is just gnothi seauton.
No.576910
>>576902Particularly now since the counter-offensive has been so hyped up for months. Remember when it was supposed to be the "spring counter-offensive"? Yet even now in summer they still can't confirm if it's actually happening or not lmao
No.576914
>>576908This is not *the* anfem anon. I disagree a lot with them but they are unquestionably unique and non repetitive. This is just some ukrop larping as radlib
No.576918
>>576910it's never happening. i suspect the ukrainian military is broken. i pray for a swift end to the misery of the people in donbass. every second the west drags out their pathetic proxy war so they can sell liquid gas to the germans, shit will get worse. I think as well of the suffering animals in peoples apartments. dogs and cats ears must hurt from the constant explosions =-(
No.576920
>>576914probably just some NAFO retard
No.576922
>>576914i am neither a ukrop nor a radlib nor
the anfem anon =-) i'm just a broad here to annoy you
No.576924
>>576920if you read my posts you would understand i am on the side of russia. i usually lurk here but I thought the blatant celebration of misogyny was worth a comment. as suspected me saying one thing got a dogpile of replies, which proved the sensitivity of the gentlemen involved. =-)
No.576926
>>576883>Well if you think you know more about how this war should be won because you play so much HoI4 then I suggest you go volunteer for the front lines. Otherwise shut the fuck up and let actual military people handle this.Whenever the actual military people say something negative, it gets dismissed as dooming here and some weirdass copium handler gets posted instead.
No.576930
>>576918>i pray for a swift end to the misery of the people in donbass.noooooooo, you have to drag this out as long as possible!!1! for reasons!!! to really show the Ukrops who's boss!!!
No.576934
>>576924You're on an imageboard, the last thing you want to do in a place like this is attempt to moderate people's language. Normie social media is more suited for you if you can't handle people making off-colour jokes
No.576936
>>576912But seriously, how did such a cup end up in a bunker on the frontlines in the Ukraine war? Is the Bundesliga that popular? Or just a freak coincidence?
No.576938
>>576934ummm, smash the heckin staterino instead of making edgy jokes!
No.576941
>>576887>you'd know that 'cucktin' came from the angry little man known as iron felixhe was right and gets proven right every day. free iron felix
No.576943
>>576938I'll take both thanks, I like my edgy jokes, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. There's a million Marxist online spaces across Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, fbi.gov, etc. that will police user language to your liking. Insisting on staying here only means you're going to continuously butt heads with those of us who don't fit in well with normie spaces
No.576945
Anfem anon won me over, you guys are seething way harder than he/she is. Somebody pointed out your misogyny, no need to cry about it.
No.576946
>>576926Lolw
Remember when this thread was shitting Prigozhin for complaining about lack of ammo? I wager that something similar happened with NAFOids. Armchair generals are truly something
No.576952
>>576941The problem with Iron Felix wasn't that he was wrong but that Cucktin broke his brain and he couldn't stop rage posting.
>>576946>Remember when this thread was shitting Prigozhin for complaining about lack of ammo?Wasn't he at one point demanding more ammo just for Wagner than Russia had been using across the whole front? I'm just an armchair historian but frontline commanders have never not complained about not enough arty.
No.576954
>>576672This isn't even misogynistic wtf Putin shushed her because she started talking during the national anthem. He was reminding her to show respect, hence why she immmediately does an embarassed laugh since she knows she screwed up.
No.576956
Can you retards please ignore the obvious attention whore?
No.576960
itt:
>ukraine is getting btfo rn, lets all doom and complain about cucktin
No.576961
>>576956I shook my magic 8 ball
It told me
Very doubtful. No.576963
>>576952>he couldn't stop rage posting.Which was completely justified.
>Wasn't he at one point demanding more ammo just for Wagner than Russia had been using across the whole front?Why would the most intense battle not require enormous amounts of firepower? Why is trying to preserve manpower by trying to compensate with artillery a bad thing? Why does that make him a whiny complainer? Why do you compare him to regular commanders, not acknowledging that a PMC needs to stay attractive and can not senselessly waste lives, like the other retarded commanders can?
No.576965
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/69780Two weeks after the start of the counter-offensive, Ukraine suspends attacks due to "huge losses", writes the Wall Street Journal.
Ukrainian forces have largely halted their advance while commanders take stock of the past two weeks and analyze ways to break through Russian lines without massive casualties.
Journalists write that Russian aviation was able to strike at Ukrainian armored columns with Western models of equipment and stop several attacks.
Ukrainian officials "maintain an optimistic tone" and say their forces have moved forward on a number of fronts.
But, according to the newspaper, these advances "so far do not pose a direct threat to the main lines of defense of Russia, built in a few months in the Zaporozhye and Donetsk regions."
No.576967
>>576960Ukraine could have been BTFO many months ago
No.576969
>>576967[citation needed]
No.576971
>>576952>Ukraine aborts offensiveNo way dude. After hyping it up all these months? Biden literally bragged about the offensive during the G7 meeting lol, no fucking way they're going to cancel it. Even if Kyiv wants to NATO will physically round up the AUF and throw them head first into the front
No.576975
>>576971https://t.me/mangopress/15120According to Alexander Mercouris at the Duran, citing reports from anonymous sources in the White House; Zelensky himself personally called US secretary of defence, General Milley, and asked for “permission” to call off the Counter offensive, asking for more weapons and stating that the losses already incurred were “unsustainable”.
According to Mercouris’ sources, Milley reacted to this suggestion with blind rage, and told Zelensky that the offensive must go on with the weapons already supplied.
Seems as though the US Nazi Death Empire is growing tired of its expensive Puppet’s constant requests for billions of dollars more in weapons.
(Note: we cannot attest to the veracity of Mr. Mercouris’ source).
No.576978
>>576963>Why would the most intense battle not require enormous amounts of firepower?Bakhmut was not Stalingrad or Berlin. Despite the declaration by some here it was obviously not the last gasp of the AFU.
>Why is trying to preserve manpower by trying to compensate with artillery a bad thing?Who said it was? The question was whether Wagner deserved the entire allocation of artillery and other sectors should be left without.
>Why does that make him a whiny complainer?Wanting the entire artillery allocation for a war on just your sector, and publicly ranting about it, is what made him a whiny complainer.
>Why do you compare him to regular commanders, not acknowledging that a PMC needs to stay attractive and can not senselessly waste lives, like the other retarded commanders can?So Wagner should get more arty to protect their mercs and Russian army conscripts should pay for it with their blood?
No.576980
>>576961>>576956but… but… but le gril! le sex! le gril!
No.576982
>>576978Well maybe he wanted them to assign more artillery and shells in general???
No.576984
>>576961>anfem literally go the thread to fill to 600 and then fucked offmission complete!
No.576988
>>576978>So Wagner should get more arty to protect their mercs and Russian army conscripts should pay for it with their blood?They fought the hardest in the last few months. During the last phase of the Bakhmut shitstorm it was not an exaggeration to say that the Wagnerites literally hold the rein of the war, had they lost the entire Russian army could've been routed
No.576992
>>1502252
new bread
No.576995
>>576982As I said before frontline commanders always want more. That doesn't mean supplying more is possible or sustainable. The Soviet stockpiles were deep but not endless.
I was sympathetic to Prigozhin's complaints until I saw his demands were for more arty than was being expended across the whole front.
>>576988If it's just down to Wagner then Russia has already lost. One unit can't be the firefighters forever.
No.576997
>>576978>Bakhmut was not Stalingrad or BerlinThe most intense battle of
this war you dishonest retard.
>obviously not the last gasp of the AFUtrue, but obviously important to them to be trapped in a meatgrinder.
>whether Wagner deserved the entire allocation of artillery and other sectors should be left withoutliterally nobody claimed that
>Wanting the entire artillery allocation for a war on just your sector,again, made up. resource allocation is obviously a problem in Cucktin's pathetic effort, as the Kharkov offensive could not be stopped, even with the artillery the other sectors had, as you claim.
>So Wagner should get more arty to protect their mercsYes.
>and Russian army conscripts should pay for it with their blood?who claimed that, you dishonest retard. they should receive proper support, too. the Russian army is obviously capable of it with their insane soviet stockpiles. oh and by the way, they paid in blood anyway not only because of Cucktin's refusal to pursue victory but also because of their retarded commanders
who did not complain and simply sent them against the Ukrop lines to die. complaining is good.
No.576999
i can make the new thread but give me some mins to collect news together. Also help me out if you like to, but pls dont forget the link
No.577001
>>1502272
disgusting. Why? I dont know whether that kid is Ukrainian or Russian and dont care. Mods can you block that one?
No.577002
new xleb >>1502277
No.577004
>>576575>It brings nothing but the continuation of international capitalism, only one in which the US won't have a monopoly onThis is why BRICS is called progressive
No.577006
>>577002Le west… hab fallen
No.577008
>>576706now, now…
having a vagina grants you the right to interrupt the national anthem?
either way, he would have you hushed if you had a pennis. don't pat yourself on the back for your troll post.
No.577010
>>576952>The problem with Iron Felix wasn't that he was wrongHe was wrong lmao. Everything he said about Putin was western lies
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