>>578747I think Putin was genuinely afraid for his life, otherwise he wouldn't have cucked out so quickly and ousted Shoigu and Gerasimov.
I still can't believe how fucking stupid of a decision this was. Prigozhin committed treason and marched on Moscow nearly unopposed, destroying the barebones barricades that the Russian military was able to lay in his path, all during the middle of a ukrainian counteroffensive. He singlehandedly demoralized the entire Russian military while giving a massive morale boost to the hohols because *holy fuck Russia really is just a paper tiger and NATO tanks could reach Moscow within a day of driving.*
Prigozhin deserves a bullet to the head, and Putin is too much of a retard cuck to do it. Instead he doubles down, pardons him for an armed uprising, and gives into every single demand he asks for. Fuck Prigozhin and fuck Putin for doing any of this shit. This is the culmination of Putin's cuckoldry, it's like he's been unlocking his cuck chakra gates this entire war so he can unleash the Final Cuck.
>>578848Been listening to a Hassan stream he's pointing out all the contradictions then coming to the conclusions that don't scare the kids
Let that sink in
>>578838>No you're speculating about how butthurt NAFOids are there that it didn't turn to a civil war,Nope, that post is laughing at NAFOids reaching for "psyop!" not about them just accepting the coup fell apart.
>You keep on fucking yourselves and it's way too predictable.Take meds. Whether or not people here take clownish positions makes no difference to the real world so why would you care?
>>578823>>578838Why do you people always sound panicked and out of breath when you type?..
>>578848>ousted Shoigu and Gerasimov.Stop living in Narnia, retard.
>>578867They're amusing.
It's beyond me why they don't move to /k/anon @
>>>/AKM/ if they're really into guns
>>578917Now tell us how we shouldn't be allowed positions of leadership when the revolution comes because we'll get people killed.
Because in your delusional fantasies you think /Ukraine/ is going to be the vanguard party.
>>578989You dumb fuck, AKs haven't used 7.62 in fifty fucking years.
Do you see what I mean when I say that nobody on AKM has ever touched a gun
>>578848 (me)
You know what, let me ask you guys a followup question. Obviously this was Putin's most massive cuck moment of the entire war, possibly of his life. Will he cuck out even more, or did we finally hit rock bottom?
>>579160why hang on an imageboard just to seethe about the edgy userbase ? why people being happy to see nato and nazis getting fucked makes you so angry ?
>more indicative of Soviet failure>desperately rejoice in the mass murder of soldiers at the front>You will get your reckoning one day.lol. go touch grass man, I think you badly need it
>>579209>It's actually because Russia lacks 'rule of law' that it is the state which is more likely to just vaporize a mutinyThis a good analysis but it's premises are westoid nonsense
For example against the current wartime laws one can take the defense of truth for the crime of publishing false statements about the war
Everything based on the Wshington consensus view of reality when it is ap5llied to other countries can sagely be applied to Bergeristahn
>>579247I side with comrade Lukashenko
Why don't
(You)?
>>579213I don't get your anger. It's not Russia and ziggers which caused the degeneration of the post cold war order into war on Russia and China. It's the colonizers and their imperialist alliance of liberals and fascists to protect the core.
The source of this is bourgeois democracy becoming the logic of a global bourgeois dictatorship which upholds Western civilizational supremacy cherished by liberals and fascists
I think you'd have more of a point if BRICS plus le rogue states abandoned Russia given a confrontation with the West, meaning the core periphery antagonism is flawed and the only international resistance based on it has to be united via the international proletariat. But that didn't happen. Enforcing the global dictatorship did polarize us along core periphery lines, and now it's time to strike back
>>579247This isn't the point you think it is. Multipolarity is based on nations, not states, and what you are pointing to is an internal contradiction between white and red Russia that can only be resolved after the defeat of imperialism.
This is little different from a calculation Lenin himself had to make in Turkey, Persia, and China.
>>579327Comment under the vid:
>Lenin was representing Jewish interests and he acted according to Jews gainsWTF?
>>579336Capitalism has a global epoch had promoted a world arranged by national relations. That's why we say nationalism is bourgeois and yes a new, modern construct.
If we are going to understand divisions of progress and reaction under world capitalism, we need to look at nations and their classes. The state is based on these things
>>579341It is literally true most Russian Jews were starving peasants and workers
Trotsky was peasant
>>579307It's not a real coup, it was to make a dramatic memory of what a little trooper he was standing up for the military against the corrupt and feckless MoD to pull out of his ass when he inevitably runs against Putin or Putin's successor in the United Russia party for President.
The fact he killed innocent soldiers to achieve this memory shows just how badly the world needs for him to not be in control of nuclear weapons.
>>579421Insider information
That's good makes us ahead of the curve
>>579426LITERAL fedpost
fed
e
d
>>579410>You really think they wouldn't try to negotiate to solve the crisis instead of destabilizing the situation furtherthe situation ended in a dead road.
>particularly if the rebellious militia had support from a part of the ruling class?sorry, in what scenario? the hypothetical u.s. scenario, or the Russian? prigozhin didn't have support of part of the ruling class.
>There are processes the state would have to go through unless the militia just starts shooting at police and national guard. It has these processes exactly so it doesn't undo itself at first sign of crisis in society&
>>579414>There were attempted negotiations in Ch*na during the Gate of Heavenly Harmony incidentyeah, that's why a chief head of the GRU and a general sat down with the bald troll. the bald troll asked an impossible, as if he commands the ministry of defense and one of the general chiefs of the SMO to go where he pleases.
that's when I said: the integrity of the state is at stake (imagine a lolcow, lolnoone, ordering these figures publicly as if he is above the state), then the state ceases negotiations. and that's where you see the Ka-52 flying over them, and an airstrike over them, the national guard (Rosgvardia) taking positions, etc.
>>579452lmao he thinks he'll be remote controlling drones instead of being sacrificed by his superiors to try and zerg rush the PLA
poor thing
>>579464>>579468I bet he saw that penguin sticker, associated it with some
smard gompuder thing, and as a good larper, bought it, and voila: Linux poser.
>>579596🇷🇺💀 "March of justice" PMC "Wagner" to Moscow. Results of the Saturday
In Russia, the so-called "March of Justice" by Yevgeny Prigozhin and PMC "Wagner" to Moscow ended. In the morning it became known that the Wagnerites entered Rostov-on-Don and blocked the headquarters of the Southern Military District, as well as a number of key buildings of law enforcement agencies in the city center, after which they moved further north along the M-4 highway.
▪️While moving along the convoy of Wagner PMCs, the planes of the Russian Aerospace Forces worked on them, after which the fighters began to shoot down Russian aircraft. During the day, from the actions of the "Wagnerites" aviation lost seven vessels, five of which did not carry any weapons. Among them are three Mi-8 MTPR - specialized scarce electronic warfare helicopters and an air control center based on the Il-18 aircraft with a crew.
Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed the nation, calling the situation an armed rebellion and a stab in the back by Russian servicemen performing tasks in the SMO zone.
The rebellious march ended two hundred kilometers from Moscow, when, through the mediation of Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, the Russian authorities and Prigozhin managed to reach a compromise, the details of which are still unknown.
The head of the PMC "Wagner" said that they were satisfied with the terms of the agreements, the march was over and the fighters were returning to the field camps, after which the "Wagnerites" began to leave Rostov-on-Don. According to some information, Aleksey Dyumin, the governor of the Tula region, also took part in the negotiations.
🔻One of Prigozhin's demands was the resignation of Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov. Considering that, according to the source, the rebellion was stopped on favorable terms for the head of the PMC, there is reason to believe that in the end the leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry will be removed.
At the end of the day, the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, Dmitry Peskov, said that the criminal case against Prigozhin would be dropped, and he himself would "leave for Belarus."
#Russia #wagner
https://t.me/rybar_eng >>579576they a strela-10, and the aird radar module of the S-300. also in some videos you can see that many of the pickups trucks they used, in the back there was a guy with an igla.
and yes, wagner has some pilots, and in ukraine, particularly Artyomosk, they have done some sorties. some officer recently awarded a hero for the Artyomovsk liberation, read to Putin a poem of two pilots of a Su-24 during the award. the su-24 that was hit by ukrainian AA defenses, rather eject, according to the story, the pilots flew the plane to the convoy they were aiming, killing them both.
>>579567You do realize that there are no feds here, right?
Like there are fewer than a hundred regular posters here, most of whom are scared of social media or even going outside. The only thing you accomplish by calling everyone a fed is lowering the overall level of discourse.
If you ACTUALLY think someone is a fed, just report their post.
>>579584>He made an oopsie guys, we all make mistakes.He seems to be in the position where he can go " oops sorry I blew up your aircraft, no grudges" and get away with it. I'd call that winning hard, if the rest of the event wasn't proof enough.
Prigozhin walked into the headquarters of one of the RF military districts witohut opposition, and sent a column to Moscow to coup Putin, mostly undisturbed by the rest of the army.
It's either a psyop where Prigo (or the faction he belongs to) is the winner, or a real event where he is the winner outright and the Kremlin really had no support in the military.
<The Kremlin announced late on June 24 that Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko negotiated a deal under which Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin will travel to Belarus without facing criminal charges in Russia; some portion of Wagner Group fighters will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD); and no Wagner personnel will be charged for their involvement in an armed rebellion.
>Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov announced that Russian authorities will drop the criminal case against Prigozhin and that Prigozhin will go to Belarus, thanking Lukashenko for his role in mediating the deal with the “higher goal to avoid bloodshed.”[1]
<Lukashenko’s press service earlier broke the news about the deal, reporting that Lukashenko negotiated with Prigozhin and claiming that Lukashenko and Putin agreed to undertake “bilateral actions” to resolve the crisis earlier in the day.[2] Lukashenko stressed the importance of avoiding a ”bloody massacre” and ensuring security guarantees for Wagner fighters.[3]
>Prigozhin released an audio message after the initial Belarusian report, claiming his “march for justice” achieved its goal and that he ordered Wagner forces back to their training grounds to prevent the situation from turning bloody (after Wagner forces already killed over a dozen Russian personnel).[4]
<Prigozhin notably did not mention Lukashenko‘s involvement or the details of any negotiated deal in his own statement. The specifics of the deal, how and on what timeline it will be implemented, the expected outcomes for each party, and the extent to which all involved parties will follow the agreement, remain unclear at this time.
>The Lukashenko-brokered agreement will very likely eliminate Wagner Group as a Prigozhin-led independent actor in its current form, although elements of the organization may endure under existing and new capacities.
<The Lukashenko-brokered deal notably strips Prigozhin of control of Wagner Group in exchange for dropping criminal charges for rebellion and treason.
>The deal will, if executed as framed by Peskov, subordinate some portion of the Wagner Group under the Russian MoD, as Defense Minister Shoigu has long desired.
<However, it is unclear how the Kremlin will define Wagner personnel as having not participated in the rebellion, and Peskov’s announcement does not specify the fate of Wagner personnel who did participate, other than receiving a pardon.
>These personnel could potentially sign contracts with the MoD on an individual basis; demobilize in Russia (a likely dangerous course of action for Kremlin internal security), travel to Belarus in some capacity, or deploy abroad to support Wagner’s previous main effort of operations in Africa or the Middle East.
<It is unclear if Wagner forces will willingly cooperate in their integration under the Russian MoD, or if the Russian Armed Forces will willingly serve alongside Wagner Group personnel in the future.
>Putin’s stance on Shoigu and Gerasimov remains unclear at this time, and Peskov specified that any military reshuffles are exclusively Putin’s prerogative and were ”hardly” discussed during the negotiations.[32]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-24-2023 >>579658The theories that center Prigozhin neglect to explain how he would have the support inside the military and the rest of the government to not get immediately obliterated, at the very least after he is *officially* labeled a traitor calling for insurrection. Because if you need to explain that, then Prigozhin the man stops being the most important piece and the event becomes much larger than the official resolution would support.
And of course, getting away with it is a clear indication his side wasn't the one who lost the game of chicken.
>>579661
>Russian sources posted footage reportedly of Russian Ka-52 helicopters striking claimed Wagner targets on the highway in Voronezh.[10] Wagner forces may have shot down up to three Mi-8 MTPR electronic warfare helicopters, one Mi-8 helicopter, one Ka-52 helicopter, one Mi-35 helicopter, one Mi-28 helicopter, and one An-26/Il-28 transport aircraft, resulting in the deaths of at least 13 pilots and airmen - and one of the single deadliest days for the Russian air force of the war in Ukraine to date.[11]
<Wagner Group columns on the M4 highway possessed a substantial amount of heavy equipment. Various milbloggers claimed that the Wagner column was comprised of up to 4,000 personnel and between 40 to 50 pieces of equipment, including MRAPs, T-90M main battle tanks, BMP infantry fighting vehicles, Pantsir air defense systems, and Grad MLRS systems.[17] One milblogger remarked that Wagner’s apparent combination of a fast-moving convoy protected by a layered mobile air defense umbrella (comprised of Pantsirs and MANPADs) that effectively defended ground forces from Russian government aircraft was reminiscent of Wagner’s tactics during previous operations in Libya, though the Wagner Group‘s theoretical ability to sustain independent operations in Russia is unclear.[18]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-24-2023 >>579677>I don't agree with it at all. It was obviously more prudent not to immediately respond with open warfareI agree, the worst possible resolution for any sides involved would be to military confrontation. It denies them the legitimacy of the existing government and makes it contingent on proving themselves by force. But that only makes it a game of chicken. Both sides escalate and escalate towards military confrontation and the first one to back off, loses.
We are told Prigozhin "turned back" but the fact that he had the support to do this much, and walk free and rich and just barely do enough to save face for the Kremlin says that it was the Kremlin who conceded to his faction's demands to avoid the military clash.
>>579673>all supposed challenges to liberal capitalism are melting away Is this a joke? I don't see where the 90s are going to get restored. Left and right are returning and polarizing society over aspects of bourgeois dictatorship and the antagonisms it supposes, which were revealed by prosperity drying up, while the semi-periphery nations assert themselves.
So much of this crisis has to do with liberal-capitalism undoing itself and people rejecting the increasingly degenerated means to save it, like factional ruling class feuds and reinforcing containment of old Cold War antagonists. The world increasingly has no interest in either, it's not democratic to anyone but the middle class liberal in the West.
>>579703>Can someone explain what the material benefit of antagonizing Russia for 30 years was?Wild guess:
An RF that is *somehow* integrated into NATO and remains a neocolony despite the tremendous potential for industry and volume of resources ( and size and distance of the centers of power from the USA) would be a bigger boon to Europe that it is to the US and would give the EU too much independence. The benefit is being able to do this shit and having western Europe by the throat on demand.
If it was Eurasia vs the USA, even if the USA could rip a bloody hole in the middle east, then the EU would be less inclined to accept being vassals for the losing side, because their economies would be less contingent on the USA upholding the "rules based order".
>>579698think anon, think
>prigozhin, a bourgie>stramwen the MoD of Russia continouslyWhat would it be, but money.
>>579758if the statement reads out inmediatly an alphabet soup /fed/u.s. department policies/ pro-imperialism argument, what makes you think the rest is good-faith arguments?
you know what? yes, they are correct, and Svietlana is the real president of Belarus.
>>579758It's
(you)r home now
>>579774>burger reich is not an empire and thefore not fallingAll these things are merely coincidences happening to the brave agentic Naz^H^H^H sorry I mean librals of the ukraine
Breddy good /k/rope
>>579833This one is slightly more important because it is topical
https://counteroffensive.substack.com/p/the-cynical-calculations-of-a-wagnerStill not worth reading unless you are bored and have nothing better to do
>>579845Breddy good job getting paid to write what brain broken liberals want to hear
I wonder what his
real opinions are
>>579673What a magnificently cursed picture for Twitter to inline.
>>579681It used to mean that the tweet you were about to read had a 50% likelihood of being utter dogshit. Now it means a 99% likelihood. Funny number number going up means world more gooder.
>>1513082So that's why they want to ban Tiktok, the warmongering liberaloid hates peace-loving discourse.
>>579857>>1513079>>579860Imagine pretending that Putin has any balls left.
He had the man pardoned that killed more than a dozen Russian soldiers, six helicopters and a plane by causing an armed mutiny.
This sets the bar for the next one trying his luck.
>>579934>>1513109Predictable Cucktinist replies.
All you can do is to deflect towards other topics because you know how gutless the Kremlin grandpa is.
>>579722some anons start liking putin because he's "anti-idpol" (hates fags) in spite of his anti-communism, then it slowly snowballs into liking him for steamrolling holhols and denying he was ever anti-communist (he was in the KGB!!!!)
My (critical) support of Putin is this and this alone: He is better than whatever the west would replace him with (Yeltsin 2.0, or Navalny, or some schizo like Prigozhin)
>>5798931. february cleared the way for october
2. no. he specifically meant october because he referenced the land lost by the signing of brest-litovsk (signed by the bolsheviks)
3. he has on many other occasions blamed lenin for the creation of ukraine as an independent nation state
idk the reason people try denying any of this like he's some kind of communist. the whole reason to support him is that he's anti-NATO, not pro-communist
>>580024 (me)
Everybody makes mistakes, even Lenin
>>580024 (me)
>>580028 (me)
Consider it this way, the ukranian Nazis as told by the burger Nazis – although
sadly they probably don't need the encouragement – have been toppling statues of Lenin their founding father and national savior
If given his way Trotsky would have torched the Ukraine to the ground
>>580048idk counteroffensyiv status because i am not ukrainian nor invested in their victory. also it wasn't bait.
>no one has said Putin is communistthey were simply denying he is anti-communist
>>580051>If given his way Trotsky would have torched the Ukraine to the groundI'm not being metaphorical or hyperbolic here
Trotsky would have literally burnt the entire ukraine to the ground if he could and then razed it with salt
He was Ukranian, he
knew >>580059wtf i love trotsky now
revive 4th international but first nuke lvov
>>580055>they were simply denying he is anti-communistHe's never said anything but the most mild criticisms of communism like less than half a dozen times ever. He's said just as many good things about the Soviet union as well.
T. researched this in depth one of the 453 times this stupid banal baseless shit was spammed ITT
>>580055>he is anti-communisthe's not either one.
if that were the case, he would have promoted the same anticommunist agenda that ukraine, baltics, and your king of the west.
sucks to be (You)
here, your cheap (You).
>>580002>1. february cleared the way for octoberNo thats stageist cope, their is no reason you need a bourgeois democratic revolution before a Communist one.
>2. no. he specifically meant octoberNo he talks about 'behind the army' which was the Czarist generals who sold out the troops (Mercouris makes this point aswell)
>3. he has on many other occasions blamed lenin for the creation of ukraine as an independent nation stateHe's correct.
>>580002Here is what he actually said:
>"Such a blow was inflicted on Russia in 1917, when the country was waging the First World War. But the victory was stolen from her. Intrigues, squabbles, politicking behind the back of the army and the people turned into the greatest shock, the destruction of the army and the collapse of the state, the loss of vast territories. As a result — the tragedy of the civil war."This doesn't really single out the bolsheviks as indeed they weren't the only ones doing politicking (that was mostly liberals like Kerensky and tsarists like Kornilov, you know the guy who actually did a similar armed coup attempt). It is also objectively correct in a way. The Tsar and the February Government led Russia into catastrophe, then bolsheviks seized power and had to piece the USSR together from a million little pieces.
>>580082As a wise man once said…
Early 1900s Russian history is Harry Potter for Communists.
>>580084The marishkova will go off the charts at this point
Go read Stalin's
Dialectical and Historical Materialism or if you're terminally incapable of reading Stalin, Trotsky's the ABCs of materialist dialectics
>>580111tbh replace "Russian people" with "liberals", "reactionaries" etc. and he would be 100% right
correct diagnosis, wrong patient
>>580113maybe he has nazi heritage, that counts for a lot in NATO
>>580093>>580119oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.
red alert, don't post tank seks.
>>580152Why would soviet people care about this sort of nonsense, the weapons should just work that is how things should be
Great care and solidarity from that new friend
though >>580077>No thats stageist cope, their is no reason you need a bourgeois democratic revolution before a Communist one.february cleared the way for october in a literal materialist way, not in a theoretical stategist way. If the February revolution had not happened, Lenin would not have returned from exile, published his April Theses, and prepared the Bolsheviks to take power by October. I'm not doing "stageist cope" my interlocutors are denying that Putin is anti-communist even though critically supporting him against NATO is perfectly justified without needing to pretend he's communist.
>No he talks about 'behind the army' which was the Czarist generals who sold out the troops (Mercouris makes this point aswell)the tsarist generals were always selling out the troops. They were doing that during the Russo-Japanese war. They were doing that all through WW1. That didn't start in 1917. Putin referenced 1917 for a very specific reason and you're tiptoeing around that.
>He's correct.No. he's not. Because Ukraine being its own SSR and receiving territory from Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev, is not the reason for the reactionary Banderite regime that exists today. The reactionary Banderite regime is a byproduct of the 1940s Nazi occupation of Ukraine and of the 1990s dissolution of the Soviet Union and of CIA projects like Aerodynamic, and of the NED funding right wing groups in Ukraine. Lenin had nothing to do with any of that.
>>580160shit is dangerous.
meanwhile, commissar of ukraine.
And the post in TG with the video posted a quote of agent z:
>Don't give me rides, gimme ammo. >>1513263>ban fedjacketingit's obvious for some of us when someone is just parroting alphabet soup agencies talking points, as an example:
>>579661starting with that crap. then pretends
>one can read a single passage of disagreement.ffs. when one knows, one knows.
Marine, 36th brigade, sent to the front line without them knowing.
>>580168A collapse of a huge country with millions of casualties is objectively a tragedy anon. Imagine if the bolsheviks seized power in a Russia that was less factionalized and devastated thanks to the ineptitude of Nicholas and the Februaryists.
Putin's had his share of stupid anti-Soviet quotes (although, quite mild ones compared to what every other post-Soviet leader except Based Luka says) but this one didn't feel like it to me. It's just a generic "let's all get along" message.
>>580180Just
HOW SCARY!, my asshole got really tight! spookie hours.
vidrel, banderite (see the OUN patch in the helmet) narrates events before the 1st of may, where two tanks got counteroinked >>580193he also mourned the USSR collapse.
The collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century.
don't feed the ultra troll who still insists Putin is anticommunist at this point when plenty of evidence mounts to say he is not.
this was already discussed, but the recurrent trolls come over and over, and over.
>>580229Fuck I'm going to miss the bus
Who cares why he thinks he mourned it, the important fact is that he did
>>580229> it fractured the unity of Russian peoples>of the 20th centuryyeah buddy, because the Russian society is the most important thing of the 20th century.
fucking bias garbage opinion.
>>580227>The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step.Damn Stalin was
Zigger…
>>580245He didn't help kill the USSR. He just didn't do anything to stop it. He was literally just some KGB dude when it happened. In the 80's he was literally in Germany the whole time lol
I don't like Putin (and I agree he is somewhat anti-communist) but you are going crazy at this point
>>579818It's becoming increasingly normalized, even mainstream , to justify the cold war in materialist terms even if still glazed with idealism. So the west is deploying this cover of calling everything "imperialism" to muddle the waters, because otherwise to even address the matter of preserving the "liberal order" or the "rules based order" or whatever other euphemism , results in acknowledging western imperialism.
So now everyone is calling everything "imperialist" interchangeably with all the other liberal snarl words. And give it a year, I bet "imperialism" will come to be made synonymous with the big evil, the great BAD, (Chinese)"communism".
>>580235>>580243Ziggers please. Yes, he cares about Russian people and territories being under a common state.
You soyjack over him mourning the USSR, while he mourned the demise of Zarist Russia YESTERDAY
>Namely such a blow was dealt to Russia in 1917, when the country was leading the First World War War. But the victory was stolen from her. >Intrigues, squabbles, politicking behind the backs of the army and the people turned into the greatest shock, the destruction of the army and disintegration state, the loss of vast territories.http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/71496 >>580280he mourned yesterday the tragedy of the state being dismantled and the people under it suffering the fragmentation, not their leadership.
obssessed gargabe.
counteroffensyivyivyiv status?
another lepoard 2a6 counteroinked.
>>580210Saying basic facts like "Putin is anticommunist" is trolling now. I remember when the objective position of this thread was "Putin is anticommunist but we critically support him against NATO." Now it is "Putin was never anticommunist."
WTF happened?
>>580260Ztards are disgusting liberals
>>580288The USSR was the state in power that was supposed to overcome the unfortunate necessity of the national bourgoisie of the imperialized nations of the world. It was the next and progressive step in the history of socialism of that region. If you cant understand that then you are just lazy or idiotic. Theres your scientific answer for you
>>580173even so I don't see the utility in denying Putin's anticommunism. Just admit you critically support him
in spite of it and move on. The revisionism surrounding Putin is weird. This is Yeltsin's successor we're talking about. Just because he was KGB doesn't mean he's hiding his power level.
>>580217>>580317In hindsight, idolizing pinochet as a model probably put putin on a collision course with the west precisely because pinochet, while an ancap, was a very authoritarian dictator, and this would have been a good indicator that putin was intending to centralize control rather than tending toward further decentralization of state power. The west overlooked his idolization of pinochet most likely because the west loved pinochet; he overthrew a democratically-elected communist, put an end to cybersocialism, and ruled over a now irrelevant personal fiefdom in latin america. On the other hand, putin was replacing the USSR's pinochet, and was in charge of europe's biggest country. Conflict was inevitable, but the west must have its neoliberal strongmen, otherwise profits will fall and the line go down. It chose to overlook putin until he became a problem. Putin was the west's fault.
>>580323>>580312Upload it :D
(spoil it)
>>580332>The USSR was the state in power that was supposed to overcome the unfortunate necessity of the national bourgoisie of the imperialized nations of the world. It was the next and progressive step in the history of socialism of that region. If you cant understand that then you are just lazy or idiotic. Theres your scientific answer for youno retard, a scientific answer to address
why not siding with Russia on the premise that Stalin underlines.
you are not only a troll, you can't read.
>>580330Putin Internet Defence Force.
It doesn't matter where and why you bad-mouth him, someone will say that you're wrong because he is communist, anti globohomo, loves the third world, defender of Christianity or whatnot the local audience wants to hear.
>>580337>Putin was the west's faultthis has always been my position on russia. the russo-ukrainian war is a fight between hollowed out privatized neoliberal states created
by and
for american imperialists. To the extent that anyone here supports one over the other, it is because of their
incidental anti-NATO characteristics, rather than any
inherent socialist tendencies. NATO made Putin.
>>580339Well ok.
(Obviously fake GORE, ban the anon who asked not me if it's too much)
>>580350>NATO made Putinyou forgot nato created Saddan Hussein, betrayed him and Iraq, and only realizing that, starts to oppose nato, and then nato kills him.
you are too stupid to go past the past.
>>580352thanks
>ban the anon who asked not me if it's too muchjesus, man.
>>580077>No thats stageist cope
>The first successes of the February Revolution were due to the fact that the proletariat was followed, not only by the masses of the rural population, but also by the bourgeoisie. Hence, the easy victory over tsarism, something we had failed to achieve in 1905. The spontaneous formation of Soviets of Workers’ Deputies in the February Revolution was a repetition of the experience of 1905—we had to proclaim the principle of Soviet power. The masses learned the tasks of the revolution from their own experience of the struggle.
>Had not the popular creative spirit of the Russian revolution, which had gone through the great experience of the year 1905, given rise to the Soviets as early as February 1917, they could not under any circumstances have assumed power in October, because success depended entirely upon the existence of available organisational forms of a movement embracing millions. The Soviets were the available form, and that is why in the political sphere the future held out to us those brilliant successes, the continuous triumphal march, that we had; for the new form of political power was already available, and all we had to do was to pass a few decrees, and transform the power of the Soviets from the embryonic state in which it existed in the first months of the revolution into the legally recognised form which had become established in the Russian state—i.e., into the Russian Soviet Republic. The Republic was born at one stroke; it was born so easily because in February 1917 the masses had created the Soviets even before any party had managed to proclaim this slogan. It was the great creative spirit of the people, which had passed through the bitter experience of 1905 and had been made wise by it, that gave rise to this form of proletarian power. The task of achieving victory over the internal enemy was an extremely easy one. The task of creating the political power was an extremely easy one because the masses had created the skeleton, the basis of this power.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/7thcong/01.htm
>The revolution was carried out upon the initiative and by the strength of one city, constituting approximately about 1/75 of the population of the country. You may say, if you will, that this most gigantic democratic act was achieved in a most undemocratic manner.
>Tugan-Baranovsky is right when he says that the February revolution was accomplished by workers and peasants – the latter in the person of the soldiers. But there still remains the great question: Who led the revolution? Who raised the workers to their feet? Who brought the soldiers into the streets? After the victory these questions became a subject of party conflict. They were solved most simply by the universal formula: Nobody led the revolution, it happened of itself. The theory of “spontaneousness” fell in most opportunely with the minds not only of all those gentlemen who had yesterday been peacefully governing, judging, convicting, defending, trading, or commanding, and today were hastening to make up to the revolution, but also of many professional politicians and former revolutionists, who having slept through the revolution wished to think that in this they were not different from all the rest.
>Not a political idea, not a revolutionary slogan, not a conspiracy, and not a revolt, but a spontaneous movement suddenly consuming the entire old power to the last remnant.” Spontaneousness here acquires almost mystic character.
>The mystic doctrine of spontaneousness explains nothing. In order correctly to appraise the situation and determine the moment for a blow at the enemy, it was necessary that the masses or their guiding layers should make their examination of historical events and have their criteria for estimating them. In other words, it was necessary that there should be not masses in the abstract, but masses of Petrograd workers and Russian workers in general, who had passed through the revolution of 1905, through the Moscow insurrection of December 1905, shattered against the Semenovsky regiment of the Guard.
>maybe the intellectual life of those circles of the intelligentsia was scientific, who slavishly adapted themselves to this liberalism, senile since childhood, protecting their imaginary independence the while with long-dead metaphors? In truth here was a kingdom of spiritual inertness, spectres, superstition and fictions, a kingdom, if you will, of “spontaneousness.” But have we not in that case a right to turn this liberal philosophy of the February revolution exactly upside down? Yes, we have a right to say: At the same time that the official society, all that many-storied superstructure of ruling classes, layers, groups, parties and cliques, lived from day to day by inertia and automatism, nourishing themselves with the relics of worn-out ideas, deaf to the inexorable demands of evolution, flattering themselves with phantoms and foreseeing nothing – at the same time, in the working masses there was taking place an independent and deep process of growth, not only of hatred for the rulers, but of critical understanding of their impotence, an accumulation of experience and creative consciousness which the revolutionary insurrection and its victory only completed.
>To the question, Who led the February revolution? we can then answer definitely enough: Conscious and tempered workers educated for the most part by the party of Lenin. But we must here immediately add: This leadership proved sufficient to guarantee the victory of the insurrection, but it was not adequate to transfer immediately into the hands of the proletarian vanguard the leadership of the revolution.https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/ch08.htm >>580356>you forgot nato created Saddan Hussein, betrayed him and Iraq, and only realizing that, starts to oppose nato, and then nato kills him.Didn't "forget" this. Not sure why you're changing the subject to something I didn't "forget" and that you have no evidence of me "forgetting."
My position here is that Putin is anti-communist but should be supported for his anti-NATO tendencies. But I keep running into revisionists who feel the need to pretend he
isn't anti-communist and also want to pretend I'm some kind of NAFO troll for pointing out that he's anti-communist.
>you are too stupid to go past the past.You are digging into the past for examples unrelated to our conversation and claiming I have "forgotten" them but are also too stupid to go past them. Try making a coherent statement.
>>580361>is anti-communistagain he's not. as I pointed out here:
>>580224 and here
>>580075if he's anticommunist, god I would love the west was this anticommunist.
he's not communist, just in case you go spazzing and change what's said>>580330this nwever happened, lmao
>>580164>Putin referenced 1917 for a very specific reason and you're tiptoeing around that.
>The bourgeoisie, frightened by the refusal of the Mensheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries to join a bloc with the Cadets, and by the probability of the democrats being quite capable of forming a government without them and governing Russia against them, are doing their best to intimidate the democrats.
>During the past half year of our revolution, we have experienced very strong spontaneous outbursts (April 20-21,[1] July 3-4) in which the proletariat came very close to starting a civil war. On the other hand, the Kornilov revolt was a military conspiracy supported by the landowners and capitalists led by the Cadet Party, a conspiracy by which the bourgeoisie has actually begun a civil war.
>The spontaneous nature of the movement leading to the proletariat beginning civil war is thus beyond doubt. On the other hand, there is not even a trace of anything resembling spontaneity in the Kornilov revolt; it was merely a conspiracy of generals who hoped by fraud and by the force of military command to carry part of the army with them.
>We all know the aims of the Kornilov revolt, and no one among the democrats disputes that those aims were a dictatorship of the landowners and the bourgeoisie, dispersal of the Soviets, and preparations for the restoration of the monarchy. The Cadet Party, this main Kornilovite party (by the way, it ought to be called from now on the Kornilov party), possesses a larger press and greater forces for propaganda than the Bolsheviks, but it has never dared and still does not dare to tell the people openly either about the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie or about the dispersal of the Soviets, or about the Kornilovite aims in general!https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/sep/29.htm
>At the first stage of its development the Russian revolution transferred power to the imperialist bourgeoisie, and created, alongside of that power, the Soviets of Deputies, with the petty-bourgeois democrats in the majority. Our Party remained, before and after May 6, a minority opposition. This was inevitable, for we are the party of the socialist proletariat, a party holding an internationalist position. A socialist proletariat whose outlook during an imperialist war is internationalist cannot but be in opposition to any power waging that war, regardless of whether that power is a monarchy or republic, or is held by defencist “socialists”.
>The struggle against our Party, therefore, began in the very first days of the revolution. And however infamous and abominable the forms of struggle carried on by the Cadets and the Plekhanov people against the party of the proletariat, the meaning of the struggle is quite clear. It is the same struggle as the imperialists and the Scheidemann people waged against Liebknecht and Adler. This is a struggle of the whole of bourgeois society, including the petty-bourgeois democrats, however r-r-revolutionary they may be, against the socialist, internationalist proletariat.
>In Russia, this struggle has reached a stage where the imperialists are trying, through the petty-bourgeois-democratic leaders, the Tseretelis, Chernovs, etc., to destroy the growing power of the workers’ party at a single hard and decisive blow. As a pretext for this decisive blow, Minister Tsereteli has struck upon a method repeatedly used by counter-revolutionaries: the charge of conspiracy. This charge is a mere pretext. The point is that the petty-bourgeois democrats, who take their cue from the Russian and the Allied imperialists, need to do away with the internationalist socialists once and for all. They think that the moment is ripe for the blow. They are agitated and frightened, and under the whip of their masters they have made up their minds: now or never.
>The socialist proletariat and our Party must be as cool and collected as possible, must show the greatest staunchness and vigilance. Let the future Cavaignacs begin first. Our Party conference has already given warning of their arrival. The workers of Petrograd will give them no opportunity to disclaim responsibility. They will bide their time, gathering their forces and preparing for resistance when those gentlemen decide to turn from words to action.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/jun/26.htm >>580369>again he's not. He's not in the CPRF. He does not support the CPRF. He does not claim to be communist. He rarely mentions class struggle. He is a multimillionaire with a huge investment portfolio. He was Yeltsin's hand-chosen successor. He saw Pinochet as a model. He mourns the USSR for the same reason he mourns the tsarist empire: Because of the loss of
national stability. He is a bog-standard conservative bourgeois nationalist. That is objectively anti-communist in its class character. You can support Putin all you want against NATO, but there is zero (I repeat ZERO) utility in this revisionism of pretending he's not an anti-communist.
>as I pointed out here:You did not "point" out anything. You merely issued blanket denials and called contrary evidence "cope."
>>580374>>580373mmm delicious salty tears.
deflect all you want.
>>580364I feel you bro.
I not so long posted how I don't have Putin in my heart in any particular special spot, like Luka, Xi, Fidel, Raul, Evo, Mao (early days), Lenin, Chávez, Stalin…
I wish I could attack him from the left, but with substantive arguments, but here is not possible with the ultras.
>>580384an anticommunist can't have a reasonable argument about taking socialism back to Russia and agreeing with a communist about looking a path forward, btw, interested in the Chinese model
>inb4 China isn't socialistgo on, say it, you stupid ultra.
>>580390>>580388also I love this deflection "haha you ULTRA, if you think PUTIN is anticommunist I bet you also think CHINA is anticommunist"
1. we aren't discussing china, we're discussing putin
2. I don't think china is anticommunist, so way to burden your position with a dumb assumption about me that isn't even true
3. what a deflection
>>580389sheet_he_just_come_out_and_say_it_HEVC_x265.mkv
fake elections and westerners behind the scenes
>>579733fucker is the one-handed king
>one handed fucking axechops wood while bitching about liberals
>one handed aklike it's an umbrella
>>580417A horrible cost that liberals like Cuckler helped create
>>580416Bro real talk how many lead ingots you sucked on while you were a kid
>>580418More like liberals like Stalin and Khrushchev. :^)
Also, imagine describing Western hostility towards Russia as a "historical accident". Real historical literacy right there. Is this what reading too much theory, and not enough data that theory is based on, does to a mf?
>>580421Neck yourself ztard
>>580420Accident as in Cuckler and his libshit friends happily accepted their new roles as gusanos, compradors. But unlike most SSR's and Warsaw Pact countries, the USA chose to balkanize the RF instead of accepting it as a junior partner like the EU countries.
>>580424I haven't looked into India, but I'm guessing that current mentions of India being on the cusp on great growth with Modi are the exact same bullshit as the exact same mentions before Modi, because there has never been any actual attempt at actually development the godforsaken country. All that cunt Modi is doing is seizing on that old source of bullshit for himself without actually doing anything to actualize that potential, and the West is gladly helping his comprador ass keep India throttled (not that the previous rulers of India weren't comprador, they just were so to a lower degree) while claiming it's finally the country's time to shine. Basically, just a Bolsonaro who didn't completely fuck his abominable power project yet.
How close am I to the truth?
>>580427I completely lost respect for him very recently when he shitted up Latin America.
>>580405A T80. that 120mm cannon hits hard, so it seems.
and yes, those are kypis. very characteristic mud flap.
>>580407BF3 told me a MRAP
>>580453>>580407kek, posted in a hurry.
>BF3 told me a MRAP can withstand a 120mm direct hit.what a lie.
>>580423of course, a couple of groups of reactionaries would love to get rid of Putin.
>>580455didn't know that, kek. now to the trash his TG.
>>580452>Because NATO refused the RF you massive fucking moronAnd do you think the circumstances are likely to revert that disposition? Because otherwise whatever Putin thinks changes nothing if the material circumstances still force the RF to be in opposition to US/NATO and dependent on China.
Another thing is that, unless Prigozhin's stunt was fully staged as a psyop, Putin seems to be a figurehead. One that just got publicly mogged by a loudmouthed clown persona after promising said clown fire and brimstone. So Putin's personal opinion on things may matter even less than previously assumed.
>>580459To prove a political point? Retard
>>580458I think that if they were to change. If, say, the USA permitting European integration in order to focus on China, I would have no doubts that the RF will gladly throw itself into the gas tanks of Germans, Anglos, French, and Italians
>>580464Holy fuck. You cannot be obtuse. Stalin wanted to join NATO because it was obstensibly post ww2 alliance of great powers to maintain international peace, not an anticommunist alliance. He wanted to prove it was a farce in order to have the justification to create the Warsaw Pact
Putin wanted to join NATO because it wanted integraiton as a junior parter within the Pax Americana
>>580465>it was obstensibly post ww2 alliance of great powers to maintain international peaceno, by the time bretton woods already happened, and the Soviets knew there was a lot of fishy things about the u.s., nato wasn't saw as a way to maintain peace. they wanted to join to
see what is…https://dzen.ru/a/Y4ItbTYv7BFxsiyyMachine translated:
<Stalin believed that NATO was not a peaceful organization
>Initially, NATO consisted of 12 countries that positioned the tasks of the union as "ensuring the security of each of the members of the treaty." For Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, such a formulation seemed stupid, and therefore the attempt of the USSR to join NATO was a completely logical step. Stalin ordered that documents be prepared as soon as possible for an application to join NATO.
>And everything was done fairly quickly. Already at the beginning of 1949 (NATO was officially founded on April 4, 1949 - ed.), the then Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR Vyshinsky sent a note to the British Parliament, in which a request was written to consider the possibility of the Soviet Union joining NATO.Not only that, Stalin also wanted to create the same neutral zone away of the USSR, like Putin wants to do, but still comes closer:
>In a note dated January 29, 1949, to the government of Norway, the USSR stated that the proposed creation of NATO provides for the creation of bases for this bloc near the Soviet borders. Therefore, in that document, Norway was “asked” whether it intended to join NATO, and whether this would mean the creation of military bases on Norwegian territory. At the same time, through diplomatic channels, the USSR proposed the creation of a North European zone of neutrality, and a similar idea had been put forward by Sweden since 1948.https://topwar.ru/26930-stalin-i-nato-hronologiya-sobytiy.htmlAlso, noteworthy, Krushev in their 'de-Stalinization' double-down the same intention to join.So this join attempts are more like:
>bro, is this organization about invading us or not?and in each rejection, it's proven the west wants to invade Russia.
>>580476>It's not Stalin or Khrushchev directly that ask for these sorts of things, it's the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Molotov. I'm aware. I was simply asking who was general secretary when this negotiation happened because you said pic related.
>And I doubt either Stalin or Khrushchev had any illusions about NATO.wasn't suggesting to the contrary.
>>580369Putin is an anti-communist, but the Ukraine crisis is specifically about decommunization. Decommunization as a way to expand global capitalism selects for Europeanness by selecting for those nationalities which can form a nation-state out of a multinational state (which define the east per Stalin), repeating a process the bourgeoisie historically depends on. The multinational state is supposed to be the USSR whose ties are now conserved by the Putinist All-Russian empire.
In reality the multinational state is the SSR in question, they are not nation-states and they internally contradict with the process of "a nation becoming a state" that defines the west per Stalin. That internal contradiction is rationalized as 1989 happening all over again, but now the empire is internal. But it's still the confrontation with an empire from which emerges the liberal bourgeoisie. So Russians in Donbass represent an 'empire' and need to deal with the foreign-sponsored 'decommunization' of Ukrainians becoming a state, which is just national supremacy in a multinational SSR with a liberal-democratic veneer. Once that reactionary colonial war is out of the way, Ukraine can develop an open society, unite the nation and Europe, and contain Russia, which is enraged by how much democracy is flowering in the region as it degenerates.
>>580478Putin will go soon or become a powerless "emperor" at best
after yesterday's happening, the real coup is just a few months away
>>580482the Friday night. he said that Russia will eventually end up like Latin-American tier garbage governments if the Russian state is not resolute in crushing prigozhin or allowing him to do whatever he pleases.
See:
>And, yes, I thought that something like this would be closer to the fall, but rather already in the fall and always against the backdrop of new defeats at the front. Although in advance (more than once, who on my page for a long time can testify) publicly suggested that Prigozhin could play a significant role in the coup or its attempt. Therefore, for me, the rebellion right now is also a bit of a surprise. The hasty withdrawal of Wagner from the front and Prigozhin's active struggle for "a place near Belgorod" gave me the idea that he was preparing a "march on Moscow" (from Belgorod to Moscow is definitely much closer than from Lugansk). But the competition was won by Akhmat. And, finally, Prigozhin's actions are a real stab in the back and cannot be perceived differently by me. Not to mention the fact that his possible rise to power will immediately cause:>- rebellion in Chechnya and the beginning of the 3rd Chechen campaign (inevitable);>- a very likely collapse of the front and the enemy's invasion of the Crimea, the fall of Donetsk and Lugansk;- the beginning of the process of disintegration of the Russian Federation;
<- A short, but very dirty and bloody period of the "dictatorship of the Latin American model." Without rules and without laws - according to criminal "concepts".throwing mud over Latin America out of nothing.
https://t.me/strelkovii/5643Not the first time, when I dig up more:
>On the page of "Colonel Kassada" (B. Rozhina) I observe an undisguised triumph over the "triumph of the left in Bolivia". If I understand something in Latin American affairs, then Rozhin's "party" joy (stupid, if only because the "leftists" (including numerous "Trotskyists" and their ideological followers), coming to power, many times brought countries Latin America to complex economic and political collapse, but never to prosperity) is premature.
>I believe that in the end we will observe 2 scenarios in Bolivia:>- a new military coup BEFORE or immediately AFTER the return of Maduro;>- the triumphant return of Maduro, a large-scale flight from Bolivia of all "European" (in terms of original origin) ethnic elements, coup attempts, civil wars and complete degradation.
>Whether I'm right, or B. Rozhin, the party-jubilant Internet-leftist-theorist, is right - the next few years will show.https://t.me/strelkovii/618 >>580484Again with that reasoning…
another speech of Putin:
https://www.belrussia.ru/page-id-7543.html>“As for the small discussion that unfolded at the Council on Science and my assessment of the Soviet past, I, like millions of our citizens, was a member of the Communist Party. And not just the Communist Party, but worked for 20 years in an organization called the KGB, and it is the heiress of the Cheka, which was called the armed detachment of the party. I can’t say that I was an ideological communist, but nevertheless <I treated it with care. I was not a functionary, I was an ordinary member, but I did not throw away the membership card, did not burn it. I really liked and still like some of the ideas of the Communist Party. If we look at the code of the builders of communism, it is very reminiscent of the Bible, and this is not a joke.”again, he's not anti-communist. anti-communist have no sense of respect for communism at all, and given the fact anti-communists once in power anti-communism, they are very recalcitrant reactionaries towards communism.
No, he's not communist, and I reckon some moronic attacks to the USSR.
>>580490I don't think a ¿Monarchist? whatever could do a "broken clock speaks truth twice a day" so easily, and I was correct.
I bet that he is referring to Sicario-yellowesque hollywood stereotype with latin america of lawlessness and gringos overhead. Although sadly, this is truth to an extend for most of latam history after the spanish left the mainland.
Mexico had Santa Ana more than 3 times as president (lost them half their country and still got the chair again), Central America imploded, same with Colombia and in the end, a consolidation of even a pale bourg state just was archieved in the XX century in the small banana republics.
But the second part seals that he is a retard.
>Maduro will bring economical chaos to BoliviaThe gamer move of joining both countries seem to have happened only in his head
>If Maduro (lmao) wins heckin race war/fleeingHow can anyone take this seriously?
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