No.578652
>>578648>Now go build your third camp!Ok centrist coward lmao
No.578662
first for rev defeatism
NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR
No.578667
I hear the mainstream news here keeps hyping up a Russian civil war and I can't help but feel optimistic knowing how the last one happened.
No.578680
You think glowies got to Prigozhin in attempts to start a civil war or was he just this autistic.
No.578684
>>578680A man without shells can be driven to drastic action.
No.578694
>>578648I can't help but feel like this whole thing has been a fucking disaster.
No.578699
>>578671I'd buy that T-shirt for one of my in-laws in NYC and tell him it's just a vintage heavy-metal band. He'd be none the wiser.
No.578704
>>578680Speed of de-escalation made me lower the chances of glowie involvement from 60% to 10%.
No.578710
Worth remembering too that direct contact isn't the only – or even the ideal – way for glowies to pull this off. The ideal way is for Prig himself to believe he's acting without glowie involvement. Who knows how many rumors they've been feeding into his group, possible tech activity, etc.
No.578715
>>578684What zero shells does to a mf.
No.578720
>>578680Autistic no doubt. And he won.
No.578739
>>1512554
Cos all criticism of Stalin doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
No.578747
So Priggo went back with his tails between his legs to the front? Or did he scare Cuckler into using Lukashenka as an intermediary because he was legitimately afraid of the ultranationals that make up the non-convict elite of the private army?
No.578751
>>578743Lol, I wonder what Kojeve would think of retards like Fukuyama or Allan Bloom butchering his philosophy.
No.578756
Can it be safely said that Prighozhin's attempted gamer move seems to have had no effect on the frontline in Ukraine? From what I've heard the large majority of Wagner's forces are still in Ukraine.
No.578779
>>578756Wagner units were on R&R near Rostov. This whole thing kicked off because Wagner camps supposedly out of range of Ukraine got hit with rockets. Prigozhin claimed the Russian MoD did it.
No.578784
Great now back to our scheduled programming of
>THE SMO IS GOING SWIMMINGLY WITH NO SETBACKS AT ALL THIS IS GOING EXACTLY HOW WE WANTED IT TO JUST TRUST ME BRO DRAWN OUT WARS ARE ACTUALLY REALLY STABLE AND NEVER CHANGE
No.578788
>>578784this but unironically get dunked westoids
No.578793
>>578743The poor cleaners who have clean all that day old cum and drool from the walls of western halls of power.
No.578802
>>578775Hasan needs to make a masterclass into how to be a man in your mid-thirties while making content that appeals to 17 year olds.
No.578807
>>578784im tired of winning
No.578813
>>578798This is why you must ride the middle of the dialectic between it being over and it being back.
No.578818
>>578784Offensyiv status?
No.578823
>>578798Yeah while ziggas get to pretend that nope, definitely no splits in the very top of Russian leadership, no sirree definitely no problems there and no need worry now that Lukashenko has solved this problem for the next thousand years. Shoigu is doing a great job and Gerasimov holds all the power of Soviet military science in his head.
No.578833
>>578823Nice /k/ope. Most posters here don't think it was a psyop and have been speculating about what it means for the future.
No.578838
>>578833No you're speculating about how butthurt NAFOids are there that it didn't turn to a civil war, and to do that you also must now mentally downplay in your own brain was just happened over the past 24 hours. You keep on fucking yourselves and it's way too predictable.
No.578843
>>578725This but unironically.
No.578848
>>578747I think Putin was genuinely afraid for his life, otherwise he wouldn't have cucked out so quickly and ousted Shoigu and Gerasimov.
I still can't believe how fucking stupid of a decision this was. Prigozhin committed treason and marched on Moscow nearly unopposed, destroying the barebones barricades that the Russian military was able to lay in his path, all during the middle of a ukrainian counteroffensive. He singlehandedly demoralized the entire Russian military while giving a massive morale boost to the hohols because *holy fuck Russia really is just a paper tiger and NATO tanks could reach Moscow within a day of driving.*
Prigozhin deserves a bullet to the head, and Putin is too much of a retard cuck to do it. Instead he doubles down, pardons him for an armed uprising, and gives into every single demand he asks for. Fuck Prigozhin and fuck Putin for doing any of this shit. This is the culmination of Putin's cuckoldry, it's like he's been unlocking his cuck chakra gates this entire war so he can unleash the Final Cuck.
No.578853
>>578838Why are you so upset that the conductor of the Orchestra is now in Belarus just near kiev?
No.578858
>>578848Been listening to a Hassan stream he's pointing out all the contradictions then coming to the conclusions that don't scare the kids
Let that sink in
No.578863
Hello fellow /k/opers, pretty crazy what happened yesterday, our boys in Ukraine must have made some pretty crazy gains amidst all the confusion right?
No.578867
>>578833This autism about le /k/ope meme is fucking annoying. Nobody cares about that board except u.
No.578872
>>578838>No you're speculating about how butthurt NAFOids are there that it didn't turn to a civil war,Nope, that post is laughing at NAFOids reaching for "psyop!" not about them just accepting the coup fell apart.
>You keep on fucking yourselves and it's way too predictable.Take meds. Whether or not people here take clownish positions makes no difference to the real world so why would you care?
No.578877
>>578867Seems like you cared enough to make that post big boy.
No.578883
>>578823>>578838Why do you people always sound panicked and out of breath when you type?..
>>578848>ousted Shoigu and Gerasimov.Stop living in Narnia, retard.
No.578894
>>578743Collapse status, NATOcels?
No.578905
>>578883Because that anon is mad we don't see the genius of his position that instead of explaining he creates strawmen to project against.
No.578911
>>578867They're amusing.
It's beyond me why they don't move to /k/anon @
>>>/AKM/ if they're really into guns
No.578917
>>578883Ziggas are desperately fucking stupid and I am now convinced you need a bullet in your head. Especially those of you who think this was all a nothingburger, probably the same ones who spent months crying that Wagner doesn't exist and is lib fanfiction.
No.578922
I still don't know what /k/ is and I'm not gonna look into it
No.578926
>>578917Which part of it's where the rejects are sent to do deniable blackops work didn't you get the first time?
No.578931
>>578747>So Priggo went back with his tails between his legs to the front?<Wagner trade offer.<I receive: everything I want<You receive: me not killing youIdk m8 seems like a win for the mercs.
No.578936
>>578917Now tell us how we shouldn't be allowed positions of leadership when the revolution comes because we'll get people killed.
Because in your delusional fantasies you think /Ukraine/ is going to be the vanguard party.
No.578941
>>578905I don't care if you agree with me, I just want to call you a retarded faggot before you inevitably meet an early death as a useless Westoid disposable male
No.578947
>>578911Its a small irrelevant board that has no influence. Why get specifically butthurt about this board supporting Ukraine when entire internet is doing the same?
No.578952
>>578941The projection is lighting up Uranus.
No.578958
>>578848I dont understand. What demands did priggo have? Were Gerasimov and Shoigu really deposed? This means that Priggo has the RF by the balls.
No.578963
>>578947Because it is a pun ya dumbass.
No.578968
>>578911/AKM/ is kind of a garbage board tbh. It's just slavaboos jerking off over how AKs totally aren't garbage rods, euros that have never touched a gun, and people who HAVE touched guns being called glowuyghurs.
No.578974
>>578917Seething Bitch-Boy.
No.578979
>>578802what did he do now
No.578985
>Why get specifically butthurt about this board supporting Ukraine
Why do you get specifically butthurt about this much smaller thread lmao
No.578989
>>578968you simply have wrists too weak to handle the mighty 7.62
No.578994
>>578936Hopefully others will kill you first, I will be happy to help out with such a task, the left will need it for sure
No.578999
>>578968oh wow so you actually are a /k/oper
No.579004
>>578989You dumb fuck, AKs haven't used 7.62 in fifty fucking years.
Do you see what I mean when I say that nobody on AKM has ever touched a gun
No.579009
>>578994You'll be in a mental institution ranting about ziggas long before the revolution comes, lmao.
No.579014
>>578963/co/pe dumb uyghur.
No.579019
>>578931I still dont understand what Priggo was seetjing about. Was he hels back by Cuckler on purpose? He basically has the most veteran corps of the RF military under his ownership no? This is tragically hilarious. Fuck the RF and fuck that humanity-betraying Putin. I hope Priggo ends up chopping his head off and then dying of a painful cancer
No.579024
>>578994Just as a reminder, this anon is driven to this level of being mad because people aren't watching 8 hour video essays from Pete the Marxist about Yo Gabba Gabba
No.579029
>>579009Yes because sane leftists spend all day wishing for a regional war to bring them communism and the more dead Russian conscripts there are that just means communism is being built even harder. No you dumb massive faggot, you are the lunatic. Kill yourself or I guarantee you will die a worse death in the war you so desperately want to fight in.
No.579034
The thread is going to shit again. Talk about the war, not some other shitty imageboard thread please.
No.579038
>>579019i think he was upset about how MoD is keeping the war limited in means (ie. not striking decision-making centres) which leads to unncessary deaths of the russian military personnel instead of actually fighting with the full capability of the russian army
No.579043
>>579029Sane leftists instead spend all their time literally in tears about other people who agree with them 99% but won't go muh both sides
No.579051
>>579024No that's some /isg/ faggot. I am telling you straight up to kill yourself, no need for a video essay. The best thing a zigga can do for socialism is to kill themselves right now.
No.579055
>>579051post youtube history
No.579059
>>579029Who is wishing for a war? One is occurring and it is accelerating the decline of the West no matter how much you try to form thought plasm to save yourself.
No.579063
>you are crying lol
<no you are crying
alright see you guys later
No.579070
Good morning I'm horny :3
No.579073
>>579038I still dont understand why Cuckler hasnt authorized destroying desicion making centres
No.579077
I enjoy that the psychic gestalt of ziggas is causing this one butthurt anon to regularly visit a thread he hates to screech at people to kill themselves.
No.579080
>>578848 (me)
You know what, let me ask you guys a followup question. Obviously this was Putin's most massive cuck moment of the entire war, possibly of his life. Will he cuck out even more, or did we finally hit rock bottom?
No.579084
i see the /k/oping nafoids are still here
ukraine must be getting slaughtered, don't even need to check the news
No.579087
>>579073This is going to make some anon have a mental breakdown about "muh ziggers defending pootin" but Putin is a gaywad for the record. That being said, he literally has struck decision making centers and a decent amount in the last few months
No.579092
>>579073Because Xi ordered him not to win the war but to keep the entire West busy
No.579096
>>579043Why would I be crying over the thought of dead /ukraine/ ziggers? You know those videos of dead UA troops lined up in that warehouse in Soledar? It would be so nice to see you cretins lined up like that too.
No.579103
>>579096There is literally no reason to be this upset just because you disagree on whether muh both sides or not. Go outside or lose some weight or something
No.579116
>>579103So are you going to blow your brains out or not? Do it for Stalin.
No.579121
>>579116So you also hate Stalin?
No.579126
>>579112I also watched that Jonny Bravo video, fucking algorithm
No.579130
>>579121No we need to honor him by performing a mass human sacrifice of /ukraine/ ziggas. You in or not?
No.579135
>>579130Why are you so upset, legitimately? You understand this is not normal behavior right?
No.579145
>>579130>>579135He half believes what he said there, literally but since he's right near the frontlines…
No.579149
>>579142lmao what is this soccer narration
No.579157
Just woke up from a six month nap, has Cucktin been deposed yet?
No.579160
>>579135You've already hypernormalized a war that is more indicative of Soviet failure and turned into a cheerleading session for adrift communists who have nothing else in their lives except to desperately rejoice in the mass murder of soldiers at the front. You will get your reckoning one day.
No.579165
>>579142Why does this need a spoiler? There's nothing nsfw in there
No.579173
>>579165Pretty sure a guy gets his arm blown clean off
No.579177
>>579169>thinking putin represents the only anti western sentiment in RussiaI shiggy
No.579184
>>578947>Why get specifically butthurt about this board supporting UkraineWhy does this board have to support Ukraine when it's not necessary for opposing Russia?
No.579188
>>579160Interesting and do tell, what is the difference between normalizing something and hypernormalizing something
No.579192
>>579188What do you think it means you idiot, you should commit hypersuicide right now.
No.579200
>>579192I think it means you are an idiot who is angry for no reason
No.579203
>>579160why hang on an imageboard just to seethe about the edgy userbase ? why people being happy to see nato and nazis getting fucked makes you so angry ?
>more indicative of Soviet failure>desperately rejoice in the mass murder of soldiers at the front>You will get your reckoning one day.lol. go touch grass man, I think you badly need it
No.579209
>>1512626
>if some militia marched on the US capital they'd be vaporized
As a burger, I can tell you this is not correct. There would be negotiations, roadblocks, etc.
It's actually because Russia lacks 'rule of law' that it is the state which is more likely to just vaporize a mutiny.
No.579213
>>579200It's too late, little zigga. You had many chances to stop your bullshit but you didn't. Now you reap what you sow because I will come after you anime villain style.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST - BE AN ANNOYING DIPSHIT SOMEWHERE ELSE) No.579219
Counterof-…. cou-… uh.. what's the general status?
No.579222
>>579215those clean book spines lol
No.579226
>>578858>Been listening to a Hassan stream he's pointing out all the contradictions then coming to the conclusions that don't scare the kidsWhat did he mean by this
No.579231
>>579213Why are jannies so fragile faggots?
No.579235
>>579219Its Over (it never even began)
No.579238
>>578680Why do you people think anything that you don't agree with from another nation just means it's western glowies? This thread has become a brain rotted mess for a long long time now.
No.579243
>>5792192 more weeks Prigoshin will reach Kreml.
No.579251
>>579209>It's actually because Russia lacks 'rule of law' that it is the state which is more likely to just vaporize a mutinyThis a good analysis but it's premises are westoid nonsense
For example against the current wartime laws one can take the defense of truth for the crime of publishing false statements about the war
Everything based on the Wshington consensus view of reality when it is ap5llied to other countries can sagely be applied to Bergeristahn
No.579258
>>579247Im not surprise because Putin was next in line after Yeltsin. Same anti-communist government different leader.
No.579260
>>579247I don't know what you mean, Putin is clearly invading Ukraine so he can recreate the USSR.
No.579268
>>579247I side with comrade Lukashenko
Why don't
(You)?
No.579273
>>579213I don't get your anger. It's not Russia and ziggers which caused the degeneration of the post cold war order into war on Russia and China. It's the colonizers and their imperialist alliance of liberals and fascists to protect the core.
The source of this is bourgeois democracy becoming the logic of a global bourgeois dictatorship which upholds Western civilizational supremacy cherished by liberals and fascists
I think you'd have more of a point if BRICS plus le rogue states abandoned Russia given a confrontation with the West, meaning the core periphery antagonism is flawed and the only international resistance based on it has to be united via the international proletariat. But that didn't happen. Enforcing the global dictatorship did polarize us along core periphery lines, and now it's time to strike back
No.579279
>>579247>Putin blames Lenin>Putin blames Lenin and the Bolshevik revolution Both of these literally never happened, why are Ultras so fucking dishonest?
No.579287
>>579268Belarus is borderline AES and it needs to enjoy uncritical support from communists around the world.
No.579290
>>579247The hilarious thing is if anything is comparable to ambitious individuals "going behind the backs of the army and the people" then surely it's the illegal dissolution of the USSR, but he wouldn't say that now would he?
No.579296
>>579247<the shitty speeches of cucktin are more important than the material effects of his struggle with the west
>they would throw these cretins into the deepest cuck pit for the shit they have done to the workers of these nationsyeah, I would too if I was in position to. No communist is in that position though. Which is why, after analysis of the overall situation, we end up with critical support for now
No.579299
>>579247This is simply Marx's thing about how a revolutionary group becomes reactionary once it's in power. Even when Putin 'brought Russia back' after Yeltsin's whoring of the country, it wasn't long before they became reactionary. People in any have an extreme ability to not understand how to analyze what's going on in Russia even in the most basic of terms. At this point there is no longer any hint of anti-imperialism in this conflict and all that's left is military elites both within the ministry and from without with the PMCs making moves.
No.579303
>>579247This isn't the point you think it is. Multipolarity is based on nations, not states, and what you are pointing to is an internal contradiction between white and red Russia that can only be resolved after the defeat of imperialism.
This is little different from a calculation Lenin himself had to make in Turkey, Persia, and China.
No.579307
Mercenary coups don't really have a track record of success in the 20th and 21st centuries, I don't know what Prighozen was thinking here
No.579316
>>579247>anti-communist said bad thing about lenin>…AND THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD SIDE WITH BIG SATAN, NATO AND PIGKRAINE!!You're getting fired if you keep up with this weak shit, fed.
No.579320
>>579311>Russia is struggling for national sovereignty with imperialism after a dispute emerged, sourced in Putin freezing decommunization, over Russia's developmental path as the world globalized <but he said Lenin bad Yea anon is right, look at global relations between nations. Not so much states, definitely not so much governments managing them. History is primarily defined by the first one.
No.579323
>>579303There is no red Russia, red Russia has been dead since 1991. There's a new ruling class now that's totally divorced from the Soviet Union.
No.579334
>>579323I think the point here is that ruling class hasn't really solved the historical divide of that nation, it's immature after only a few decades.
No.579336
>>579320What nations bro? The nation is something that has only been a thing for the recent 500 years of our history. The larger history has not been defined by nations because nations didn't exist.
No.579341
>>579327Comment under the vid:
>Lenin was representing Jewish interests and he acted according to Jews gainsWTF?
No.579345
>>579336Capitalism has a global epoch had promoted a world arranged by national relations. That's why we say nationalism is bourgeois and yes a new, modern construct.
If we are going to understand divisions of progress and reaction under world capitalism, we need to look at nations and their classes. The state is based on these things
No.579349
>>579341It is literally true most Russian Jews were starving peasants and workers
Trotsky was peasant
No.579352
Russia is literally done for
No.579370
>>579352Excuse me, is the war over? Are hohols marching on the Kremlin right now? Prigozhin never had a chance, he couldn't have gotten out of Rostov even if he decided to quit being a coward bitch and drive to Moscow. Stop with this fantasy where you think Putin is a cuck, he was in control the entire time and remains in control now.
No.579376
>>579307It's not a real coup, it was to make a dramatic memory of what a little trooper he was standing up for the military against the corrupt and feckless MoD to pull out of his ass when he inevitably runs against Putin or Putin's successor in the United Russia party for President.
The fact he killed innocent soldiers to achieve this memory shows just how badly the world needs for him to not be in control of nuclear weapons.
No.579385
Hey guys here's where I'm going to show you how genius Putin will end NATO:
No.579389
>>579215Based Linux tho?!?!?!?!?!?
No.579398
>>579352Two more weeks until Russia collapses!
No.579402
>>578922It's a 4chan board, mostly run by feds.
No.579406
>>579209nah, nonsense. if the integrity of the state is at stake, there wouldn't be negotiations. here, in burguerland, Russia, or wherever.
No.579410
>>579406>nah, nonsense. if the integrity of the state is at stake, there wouldn't be negotiations. here, in burguerland, Russia, or wherever.You really think they wouldn't try to negotiate to solve the crisis instead of destabilizing the situation further, particularly if the rebellious militia had support from a part of the ruling class? There are processes the state would have to go through unless the militia just starts shooting at police and national guard. It has these processes exactly so it doesn't undo itself at first sign of crisis in society
No.579414
>>579406There were attempted negotiations in Ch*na during the Gate of Heavenly Harmony incident
No.579421
>>579393You call us NATO enjoyers glowies, but there's no way the ziggers on here aren't a bunch of ivans and vlads posting from an FSB office.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST - /chug/let) No.579426
>>579402Ah yes, the militia board that hates federal agents is run by feds. Tell me anon, is this site run by feds too? Is every site that hates feds actually run by feds, or just the ones that you don't visit?
No.579432
>>579421kek go die for your democracy westoid
No.579436
>>579421Insider information
That's good makes us ahead of the curve
No.579452
>>579432Why die when I can drone strike someone from the comfort of my gaming chair?
No.579456
>>579452NAFO retard outing himself yet again eh?
No.579461
>>579426LITERAL fedpost
fed
e
d
No.579468
>>579464gamers dont use linux
No.579469
Its amazing how Panicked NAFO is, they cant seen to figure out what narative they should be running with.
No.579477
>>579452>Why die when I can drone strike someone from the comfort of my gaming chair?lol you wish. this isn't the era of irregular colonial wars anymore, you'll be digging holes in the jungle if you want to keep pruning. hop to it and enlist now, democracy isn't going to save itself.
No.579487
>>579410>You really think they wouldn't try to negotiate to solve the crisis instead of destabilizing the situation furtherthe situation ended in a dead road.
>particularly if the rebellious militia had support from a part of the ruling class?sorry, in what scenario? the hypothetical u.s. scenario, or the Russian? prigozhin didn't have support of part of the ruling class.
>There are processes the state would have to go through unless the militia just starts shooting at police and national guard. It has these processes exactly so it doesn't undo itself at first sign of crisis in society&
>>579414>There were attempted negotiations in Ch*na during the Gate of Heavenly Harmony incidentyeah, that's why a chief head of the GRU and a general sat down with the bald troll. the bald troll asked an impossible, as if he commands the ministry of defense and one of the general chiefs of the SMO to go where he pleases.
that's when I said: the integrity of the state is at stake (imagine a lolcow, lolnoone, ordering these figures publicly as if he is above the state), then the state ceases negotiations. and that's where you see the Ka-52 flying over them, and an airstrike over them, the national guard (Rosgvardia) taking positions, etc.
No.579492
>>579452lmao he thinks he'll be remote controlling drones instead of being sacrificed by his superiors to try and zerg rush the PLA
poor thing
No.579503
>>579464>>579468I bet he saw that penguin sticker, associated it with some
smard gompuder thing, and as a good larper, bought it, and voila: Linux poser.
No.579505
>>579215Peak redditor physique
No.579510
>>579432Sadly western countries are not democratic.
No.579514
>>579495What does making a burger have to do with having legs or not? He shoulda been able to make a burger as soon as he was recovered from his amputation.
No.579520
>>579514Maybe there's something different going on here for this burgerstahni case
No.579527
>>579469What are these le nafoids panicking about? Im genuinely curious.
No.579531
>>578710it wouldn't be hard for peers to identify wagner's likely second rate intel operation and feed it disinfo. luka's involvement makes me lean towards some kind of multi dimensional brics astral plane chess
No.579542
>>579539are there any Anna's in east Slavia or is it all this
No.579550
>>579546They might be right on that one. In politics appearances matter, this whole situation exposed how fragile his position actually is.
No.579555
Is anything happening in the war or is everyone back to calling everyone else a fed
No.579567
>>579555layers upon layers of fedposting for now. Despite the chaos in the russkie rear the hohols havent managed any gains at all
No.579576
>>579563Wagner now has an air wing
No.579580
>>579546All of /leftypol/ needs to rally in support of Putin. Last thing we need is a revolution in Russia like the one they had in 1917.
No.579584
>>579563>Prigozhin said that the Il-22 plane was shot down by mistake.>pardoned of everythingHe made an oopsie guys, we all make mistakes.
No.579592
>>579426>Ah yes, the militia board that hates federal agents is run by feds.I remember seeing some old news, by the time, that feds openly post in boards of 4chan, like MLP. Vault 7 leaks have that information, but as is for now, google and yandex buried those articles, back in 2017, where I specifically remember that the CIA and fed posters helped trump to win, posting in 4chan.
No.579596
>>579563I'm hearing some people claim this story is unsourced and unverified. Same with any proof the helecopters were shot down. Crazy how hard it is to get any reliable information on this war and even this highly public situation.
No.579600
>>579596🇷🇺💀 "March of justice" PMC "Wagner" to Moscow. Results of the Saturday
In Russia, the so-called "March of Justice" by Yevgeny Prigozhin and PMC "Wagner" to Moscow ended. In the morning it became known that the Wagnerites entered Rostov-on-Don and blocked the headquarters of the Southern Military District, as well as a number of key buildings of law enforcement agencies in the city center, after which they moved further north along the M-4 highway.
▪️While moving along the convoy of Wagner PMCs, the planes of the Russian Aerospace Forces worked on them, after which the fighters began to shoot down Russian aircraft. During the day, from the actions of the "Wagnerites" aviation lost seven vessels, five of which did not carry any weapons. Among them are three Mi-8 MTPR - specialized scarce electronic warfare helicopters and an air control center based on the Il-18 aircraft with a crew.
Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed the nation, calling the situation an armed rebellion and a stab in the back by Russian servicemen performing tasks in the SMO zone.
The rebellious march ended two hundred kilometers from Moscow, when, through the mediation of Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, the Russian authorities and Prigozhin managed to reach a compromise, the details of which are still unknown.
The head of the PMC "Wagner" said that they were satisfied with the terms of the agreements, the march was over and the fighters were returning to the field camps, after which the "Wagnerites" began to leave Rostov-on-Don. According to some information, Aleksey Dyumin, the governor of the Tula region, also took part in the negotiations.
🔻One of Prigozhin's demands was the resignation of Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov. Considering that, according to the source, the rebellion was stopped on favorable terms for the head of the PMC, there is reason to believe that in the end the leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry will be removed.
At the end of the day, the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, Dmitry Peskov, said that the criminal case against Prigozhin would be dropped, and he himself would "leave for Belarus."
#Russia #wagner
https://t.me/rybar_eng No.579605
>>579576they a strela-10, and the aird radar module of the S-300. also in some videos you can see that many of the pickups trucks they used, in the back there was a guy with an igla.
and yes, wagner has some pilots, and in ukraine, particularly Artyomosk, they have done some sorties. some officer recently awarded a hero for the Artyomovsk liberation, read to Putin a poem of two pilots of a Su-24 during the award. the su-24 that was hit by ukrainian AA defenses, rather eject, according to the story, the pilots flew the plane to the convoy they were aiming, killing them both.
No.579609
>>579600>the criminal case against Prigozhin would be droppedPreviously unimaginable levels of cuckoldry
No.579625
>>579080>not cuck bottomOne job
No.579629
>>579609Cucktin deserves his nickname. I hope Lukashenko hired not only Prigozhin but entire PMC Wagner.
No.579633
>>579617It's either that or stop crying, I'd prefer the thatbut the the crying does provoke some
schadenfreude No.579641
>>579637Of course, everything is going according to the plan. Also, only in your schizo brain does recognizing Putin's cuckoldry == supporting Ukraine.
No.579645
>>579567You do realize that there are no feds here, right?
Like there are fewer than a hundred regular posters here, most of whom are scared of social media or even going outside. The only thing you accomplish by calling everyone a fed is lowering the overall level of discourse.
If you ACTUALLY think someone is a fed, just report their post.
No.579650
>>579645You're gonna get 10 (you)s containing various le awesome sauce glow memes
No.579654
>>579584>He made an oopsie guys, we all make mistakes.He seems to be in the position where he can go " oops sorry I blew up your aircraft, no grudges" and get away with it. I'd call that winning hard, if the rest of the event wasn't proof enough.
Prigozhin walked into the headquarters of one of the RF military districts witohut opposition, and sent a column to Moscow to coup Putin, mostly undisturbed by the rest of the army.
It's either a psyop where Prigo (or the faction he belongs to) is the winner, or a real event where he is the winner outright and the Kremlin really had no support in the military.
No.579658
The guys at the RWA podcast have this theory, that seems possible, about how Prigo was banking on the counteroffensyiv being a success, which would cause enough backlash from the russian high command to support his coup attempt. And when that didn't happen he went for it anyway with the expected results.
No.579661
<The Kremlin announced late on June 24 that Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko negotiated a deal under which Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin will travel to Belarus without facing criminal charges in Russia; some portion of Wagner Group fighters will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD); and no Wagner personnel will be charged for their involvement in an armed rebellion.
>Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov announced that Russian authorities will drop the criminal case against Prigozhin and that Prigozhin will go to Belarus, thanking Lukashenko for his role in mediating the deal with the “higher goal to avoid bloodshed.”[1]
<Lukashenko’s press service earlier broke the news about the deal, reporting that Lukashenko negotiated with Prigozhin and claiming that Lukashenko and Putin agreed to undertake “bilateral actions” to resolve the crisis earlier in the day.[2] Lukashenko stressed the importance of avoiding a ”bloody massacre” and ensuring security guarantees for Wagner fighters.[3]
>Prigozhin released an audio message after the initial Belarusian report, claiming his “march for justice” achieved its goal and that he ordered Wagner forces back to their training grounds to prevent the situation from turning bloody (after Wagner forces already killed over a dozen Russian personnel).[4]
<Prigozhin notably did not mention Lukashenko‘s involvement or the details of any negotiated deal in his own statement. The specifics of the deal, how and on what timeline it will be implemented, the expected outcomes for each party, and the extent to which all involved parties will follow the agreement, remain unclear at this time.
>The Lukashenko-brokered agreement will very likely eliminate Wagner Group as a Prigozhin-led independent actor in its current form, although elements of the organization may endure under existing and new capacities.
<The Lukashenko-brokered deal notably strips Prigozhin of control of Wagner Group in exchange for dropping criminal charges for rebellion and treason.
>The deal will, if executed as framed by Peskov, subordinate some portion of the Wagner Group under the Russian MoD, as Defense Minister Shoigu has long desired.
<However, it is unclear how the Kremlin will define Wagner personnel as having not participated in the rebellion, and Peskov’s announcement does not specify the fate of Wagner personnel who did participate, other than receiving a pardon.
>These personnel could potentially sign contracts with the MoD on an individual basis; demobilize in Russia (a likely dangerous course of action for Kremlin internal security), travel to Belarus in some capacity, or deploy abroad to support Wagner’s previous main effort of operations in Africa or the Middle East.
<It is unclear if Wagner forces will willingly cooperate in their integration under the Russian MoD, or if the Russian Armed Forces will willingly serve alongside Wagner Group personnel in the future.
>Putin’s stance on Shoigu and Gerasimov remains unclear at this time, and Peskov specified that any military reshuffles are exclusively Putin’s prerogative and were ”hardly” discussed during the negotiations.[32]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-24-2023 No.579664
>>579080This was rock bottom
No.579668
>>579658The theories that center Prigozhin neglect to explain how he would have the support inside the military and the rest of the government to not get immediately obliterated, at the very least after he is *officially* labeled a traitor calling for insurrection. Because if you need to explain that, then Prigozhin the man stops being the most important piece and the event becomes much larger than the official resolution would support.
And of course, getting away with it is a clear indication his side wasn't the one who lost the game of chicken.
No.579677
>>579668>The theories that center Prigozhin neglect to explain how he would have the support inside the military and the rest of the government to not get immediately obliteratedI don't agree with it at all. It was obviously more prudent not to immediately respond with open warfare
No.579681
>>579673Seems the meaning of the blue checkmark hasn't changed a bit in the final determination
No.579689
>>579661
>Russian sources posted footage reportedly of Russian Ka-52 helicopters striking claimed Wagner targets on the highway in Voronezh.[10] Wagner forces may have shot down up to three Mi-8 MTPR electronic warfare helicopters, one Mi-8 helicopter, one Ka-52 helicopter, one Mi-35 helicopter, one Mi-28 helicopter, and one An-26/Il-28 transport aircraft, resulting in the deaths of at least 13 pilots and airmen - and one of the single deadliest days for the Russian air force of the war in Ukraine to date.[11]
<Wagner Group columns on the M4 highway possessed a substantial amount of heavy equipment. Various milbloggers claimed that the Wagner column was comprised of up to 4,000 personnel and between 40 to 50 pieces of equipment, including MRAPs, T-90M main battle tanks, BMP infantry fighting vehicles, Pantsir air defense systems, and Grad MLRS systems.[17] One milblogger remarked that Wagner’s apparent combination of a fast-moving convoy protected by a layered mobile air defense umbrella (comprised of Pantsirs and MANPADs) that effectively defended ground forces from Russian government aircraft was reminiscent of Wagner’s tactics during previous operations in Libya, though the Wagner Group‘s theoretical ability to sustain independent operations in Russia is unclear.[18]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-24-2023 No.579694
>>579677>I don't agree with it at all. It was obviously more prudent not to immediately respond with open warfareI agree, the worst possible resolution for any sides involved would be to military confrontation. It denies them the legitimacy of the existing government and makes it contingent on proving themselves by force. But that only makes it a game of chicken. Both sides escalate and escalate towards military confrontation and the first one to back off, loses.
We are told Prigozhin "turned back" but the fact that he had the support to do this much, and walk free and rich and just barely do enough to save face for the Kremlin says that it was the Kremlin who conceded to his faction's demands to avoid the military clash.
No.579698
>>578675wtf did lukashenko do??
No.579703
Can someone explain what the material benefit of antagonizing Russia for 30 years was? I really cannot understand it. I understand they thought China both was not hostile to them and was going to collapse like the Soviet Union but surely at some point they realized that China endangered them and I feel like even a 12 year old looking at a map could understand that Russia and India (who are both a package deal btw) would be necessary for containing China. What was the point of bombing Yugoslavia, just for the State owned enterprises in Kosovo? What was the point of expanding NATO? It makes no fucking sense
No.579710
>>579703You cannot comprehend the logic behind a Westoid nazi, for to them the Slavics were always nothing more than subhuman.
No.579718
>>579673>all supposed challenges to liberal capitalism are melting away Is this a joke? I don't see where the 90s are going to get restored. Left and right are returning and polarizing society over aspects of bourgeois dictatorship and the antagonisms it supposes, which were revealed by prosperity drying up, while the semi-periphery nations assert themselves.
So much of this crisis has to do with liberal-capitalism undoing itself and people rejecting the increasingly degenerated means to save it, like factional ruling class feuds and reinforcing containment of old Cold War antagonists. The world increasingly has no interest in either, it's not democratic to anyone but the middle class liberal in the West.
No.579722
>>579279Anon putin did definitely condemn the bolshevik revolution consistently throughout his career (and revolutions in general), as well as more specifically blame Lenin for the creation of Ukraine as a state
No.579729
>>579703>Can someone explain what the material benefit of antagonizing Russia for 30 years was?Wild guess:
An RF that is *somehow* integrated into NATO and remains a neocolony despite the tremendous potential for industry and volume of resources ( and size and distance of the centers of power from the USA) would be a bigger boon to Europe that it is to the US and would give the EU too much independence. The benefit is being able to do this shit and having western Europe by the throat on demand.
If it was Eurasia vs the USA, even if the USA could rip a bloody hole in the middle east, then the EU would be less inclined to accept being vassals for the losing side, because their economies would be less contingent on the USA upholding the "rules based order".
No.579746
>>579698think anon, think
>prigozhin, a bourgie>stramwen the MoD of Russia continouslyWhat would it be, but money.
No.579754
>>579746I think he just gave him an off, seems like Pierogi did this out of desperation with Wagner being forced to sign contracts and the counteroffensyiv failing. When he saw he had no support, he accepted the off ramp (and for the record I'm sure letting Pierogi keep his money was a big part too)
No.579758
>>579750>cant read a single passage of disagreement without sperging out.wow this is classic leftypol.
No.579762
>>579758if the statement reads out inmediatly an alphabet soup /fed/u.s. department policies/ pro-imperialism argument, what makes you think the rest is good-faith arguments?
you know what? yes, they are correct, and Svietlana is the real president of Belarus.
No.579766
>>579758It's
(you)r home now
No.579770
>>579762Reminder that there is a whole ass official Wikipedia for the Taraskevica dialect of Belarusian that is essentially a collection of gusano fanfiction such as using the white-red-white flag for Belarus and listing Lukashenko as the "head of Russian occupational government"
No.579778
>>579774I'm assuming this man is advertising a substack article?
No.579782
>>579770what aghast me is that the moron believed he can post that garbage and don't his bs called out.
No.579790
>working in Tech
No.579793
>>579774>burger reich is not an empire and thefore not fallingAll these things are merely coincidences happening to the brave agentic Naz^H^H^H sorry I mean librals of the ukraine
Breddy good /k/rope
No.579797
>>579786betting 5 labor vouchers this same person calls Russia an imperialist
No.579801
>>579774Oh fuck, the collapse is coming sooner than I thought.
No.579825
>>579822Ahahah funi clock man
No.579829
>>579703The material benefit is protection of the american hegemony by strengthening its military alliance and keeping potential adversaries down. That said the US didn't antagonize Russia for all of those 30 years, and they didn't thought China would go down. They backed China at a time this country was much weaker because they didn't want the two nations to team up, and also to have an ally against the Soviet Union, which paid off by the way.
No.579833
I disregard the opinion of anyone who posts a Substack blog.
No.579837
>>579833This one is slightly more important because it is topical
https://counteroffensive.substack.com/p/the-cynical-calculations-of-a-wagnerStill not worth reading unless you are bored and have nothing better to do
No.579841
>>579833I like substack, what's your problem
No.579853
>>579845Breddy good job getting paid to write what brain broken liberals want to hear
I wonder what his
real opinions are
No.579860
>>579857none of those were actual nuclear threats btw, just straight up natoid headcanon
No.579864
>>579673What a magnificently cursed picture for Twitter to inline.
>>579681It used to mean that the tweet you were about to read had a 50% likelihood of being utter dogshit. Now it means a 99% likelihood. Funny number number going up means world more gooder.
>>1513082So that's why they want to ban Tiktok, the warmongering liberaloid hates peace-loving discourse.
No.579868
>>1513082
Everybody with a tiktok account get on tiktok now
Post as many photos as you can
No.579876
>>1513089
jewcomrades… we lost…
No.579880
>>1513089
Fuck off with your dog dick
No.579883
>>1513089
Jews BTFO, we did it Zbros
No.579893
>>579889February you retard.
No.579897
>>579889Is he just trolling at this point?
No.579908
>>579889yevegny tried to make the imperialist war a civil war
No.579912
>>579857>>1513079>>579860Imagine pretending that Putin has any balls left.
He had the man pardoned that killed more than a dozen Russian soldiers, six helicopters and a plane by causing an armed mutiny.
This sets the bar for the next one trying his luck.
No.579916
what's the vibes among the ordinary russian civies.
No.579919
>>1513109
Putin is a big man he can take this if it works to his advantage
No.579922
>>579889You know that October wasn't the only thing to happen in 1917 right?
No.579942
>>579934A third party will enter the war by next year. Mark my words.
No.579946
>>1513121
cope in depth
No.579949
hi ziggas, /k/ here. i can't believe it's over. prigozhin was supposed to turn eveything around. we were so close. it was finally happening. and now we're back to trying to rationalize a failed counteroffensive. all the leopards are dead. there's nothing left and nothing that will work. it's a terrifying time and i don't know whether to cry or end it all. it feels like we're on a sinking submersible heading for the titanic. i can't breath. there's no hope. our /k/opes keep getting more absurd and embarrasing. russia is simply too good at this. the world is changing and i am scared. please hold me.
No.579953
>>1513121
The Mariana Cope.
No.579956
>>1513121
Has he been working out?
No.579959
>>579934>>1513109Predictable Cucktinist replies.
All you can do is to deflect towards other topics because you know how gutless the Kremlin grandpa is.
No.579963
>>579926The great patriotic war but as a farce this time
No.579971
>>579722some anons start liking putin because he's "anti-idpol" (hates fags) in spite of his anti-communism, then it slowly snowballs into liking him for steamrolling holhols and denying he was ever anti-communist (he was in the KGB!!!!)
My (critical) support of Putin is this and this alone: He is better than whatever the west would replace him with (Yeltsin 2.0, or Navalny, or some schizo like Prigozhin)
No.579975
>>579912>when you maintain control of the country, you lose!Fuck Putin etc, but this reeks of butthurt by someone who was way too invested in a coup.
No.579979
>>579912Lmao at least a couple hundred Russian soldiers die at the front or of wounds every day you dumbass, and how many planes and helos have been lost? Ziggas routinely cannot perceive the scale of the war.
No.579983
>>1513135>>579934>>1513109>>1513079at least get some new memes into the rotation
No.579987
>>579703the point of expanding NATO, antagonziing Russia, etc. etc. was to simply privatize and deregulate and loot former soviet/warsaw pact countries (like Ukraine) and to turn them against Russia so that Russia could eventually be balkanized in the same manner. It's all about balkanization of large nations into tiny compliant neocolonies run by comprador bourgeoisie who are willing to sell natural resources for cheap and import expensive finished goods. Also the goal is to maintain asymmetrical development of world economies so that capitalist imperialism can continue indefinitely. if the whole world becomes more or less equally developed, there's nowhere left to export capital, and the conditions for international proletarian solidarity increase.
No.579998
>>579703>Can someone explain what the material benefit of antagonizing Russia for 30 years was?Europe felt entitled to redivide the former USSR out of decommunization and how it (supposedly) unites Europe, however what really changed and antagonized Russia was NATO neocontainment as a stopgap way to guarantee this conclusion. So when this conclusion clashed with resistance in Ukraine, suddenly NATO assumed a new responsibility of crushing resistance to this conclusion on top of containing Russia, especially when Russia turned around and offered security guarantees to this resistance after Ukraine imploded into factional and sectarian conflict thanks to decommunization.
No.580002
>>5798931. february cleared the way for october
2. no. he specifically meant october because he referenced the land lost by the signing of brest-litovsk (signed by the bolsheviks)
3. he has on many other occasions blamed lenin for the creation of ukraine as an independent nation state
idk the reason people try denying any of this like he's some kind of communist. the whole reason to support him is that he's anti-NATO, not pro-communist
No.580009
>>579998it's always about maintaining asymmetrical development of nations by privatizing, deregulating, balkanizing, and looting nations that threaten to become "peers" to the imperial core
No.580014
>>1513121
The damage control from the Ukraine side is always hysterical.
No.580017
>>579979russia has had only 15 helicopters of this type, you moron, its a huge loss
No.580024
>>580002>3. he has on many other occasions blamed lenin for the creation of ukraine as an independent nation statThat one's entirely justifiable
No.580028
>>580024 (me)
Everybody makes mistakes, even Lenin
No.580032
>>580017Quiet you NAFO wunderwaffen loving loser fedboi.
No.580042
>>580017How many Leopard 2R HMBVs does the entire world have?
No.580051
>>580024 (me)
>>580028 (me)
Consider it this way, the ukranian Nazis as told by the burger Nazis – although
sadly they probably don't need the encouragement – have been toppling statues of Lenin their founding father and national savior
If given his way Trotsky would have torched the Ukraine to the ground
No.580055
>>580048idk counteroffensyiv status because i am not ukrainian nor invested in their victory. also it wasn't bait.
>no one has said Putin is communistthey were simply denying he is anti-communist
No.580059
>>580051>If given his way Trotsky would have torched the Ukraine to the groundI'm not being metaphorical or hyperbolic here
Trotsky would have literally burnt the entire ukraine to the ground if he could and then razed it with salt
He was Ukranian, he
knew No.580066
>>580059wtf i love trotsky now
revive 4th international but first nuke lvov
No.580070
>>580055>they were simply denying he is anti-communistHe's never said anything but the most mild criticisms of communism like less than half a dozen times ever. He's said just as many good things about the Soviet union as well.
T. researched this in depth one of the 453 times this stupid banal baseless shit was spammed ITT
No.580075
>>580055>he is anti-communisthe's not either one.
if that were the case, he would have promoted the same anticommunist agenda that ukraine, baltics, and your king of the west.
sucks to be (You)
here, your cheap (You).
No.580077
>>580002>1. february cleared the way for octoberNo thats stageist cope, their is no reason you need a bourgeois democratic revolution before a Communist one.
>2. no. he specifically meant octoberNo he talks about 'behind the army' which was the Czarist generals who sold out the troops (Mercouris makes this point aswell)
>3. he has on many other occasions blamed lenin for the creation of ukraine as an independent nation stateHe's correct.
No.580079
>>580002Here is what he actually said:
>"Such a blow was inflicted on Russia in 1917, when the country was waging the First World War. But the victory was stolen from her. Intrigues, squabbles, politicking behind the back of the army and the people turned into the greatest shock, the destruction of the army and the collapse of the state, the loss of vast territories. As a result — the tragedy of the civil war."This doesn't really single out the bolsheviks as indeed they weren't the only ones doing politicking (that was mostly liberals like Kerensky and tsarists like Kornilov, you know the guy who actually did a similar armed coup attempt). It is also objectively correct in a way. The Tsar and the February Government led Russia into catastrophe, then bolsheviks seized power and had to piece the USSR together from a million little pieces.
No.580082
Isn't this the Ukraine thread? Why are you guys getting jebaited into talking about things that happened over 100 years ago?
No.580084
>>579975If you display weakness and don't set an example on your adversaries, they will try again.
No.580086
>>580063Lenin was cool with Makhno's shit
No.580089
>>580082As a wise man once said…
Early 1900s Russian history is Harry Potter for Communists.
No.580091
>>580084The marishkova will go off the charts at this point
Go read Stalin's
Dialectical and Historical Materialism or if you're terminally incapable of reading Stalin, Trotsky's the ABCs of materialist dialectics
No.580095
>Shoigu has zero actual military experience or background
>gets put in charge of Russian Armed Forces
How does this happen and why does Putin tolerate it
No.580097
>>580095>zero actual military experience or backgroundsource?
No.580099
>>580059yeah because he was tasked to deal with all the problems there. makhno, the nationalists that later on became the nazi collaborators a.k.a. banderites, etc.
No.580103
>>580095You realize that's not uncommon right? The Minister of Defence is not a general, he is a civil servant and an accountant for the army. Lots of Western defence ministers are civilians whose only "military experience" is writing for NATO think tanks. Shoigu actually did serve in the Army btw.
No.580107
>>580095He is the defence minister. His military rank is purely ceremonial. He is a civilian, just like every god damn defence minister everywhere.
No.580109
>>580103also, he has been in the office during the Syrian operations. So he has a lot of experience.
No.580113
>Stoltenberg has zero actual military experience or background
>gets put in charge of NATO Armed Forces
How does this happen and why does Biden tolerate it
No.580114
>>580111Killing Fields for Liberals when?
No.580120
>>580107Just like any other neoliberal countries you mean. China Cuba, DPRK, Venezuela, Syria have generals with military careers as defense ministers.
No.580127
>>580111Genuinely reads like an except from Mein Kampf, just throw a good bit of "Bolshevism" in there.
No.580129
>>580113Nice cope, Shoigu seems to be constantly shit on in hardline Z channels and most obviously by Priggy himself.
No.580131
>>580111tbh replace "Russian people" with "liberals", "reactionaries" etc. and he would be 100% right
correct diagnosis, wrong patient
>>580113maybe he has nazi heritage, that counts for a lot in NATO
No.580133
>>580093>>580119oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.
red alert, don't post tank seks.
No.580139
>/ukraine/ is still hell bent on zpeedrunning the 2001 to 2007 PNAC neocon fanatic believer timeline
Lol. Lmao even.
No.580149
>>580120Shoigu is a general. I mean sure most of his career was in disaster management, but the Chinese MoD is also a missile and satellite armchair general. I do think Shoigu is inadequate for his job but it's not because you need to be some epic level 90 warrior to be a MoD.
No.580156
>>579829>They backed China at a time this country was much weaker because they didn't want the two nations to team up, and also to have an ally against the Soviet UnionThat was in the 70's, which was more then 30 years ago. By the time the Soviet Union dissolved, the Sino-Soviet split had effectively been mended (although not to full cooperation). And yes, even during the Yeltsin administration, the US was still antagonizing Russia
No.580159
>>580152Why would soviet people care about this sort of nonsense, the weapons should just work that is how things should be
Great care and solidarity from that new friend
though No.580164
>>580077>No thats stageist cope, their is no reason you need a bourgeois democratic revolution before a Communist one.february cleared the way for october in a literal materialist way, not in a theoretical stategist way. If the February revolution had not happened, Lenin would not have returned from exile, published his April Theses, and prepared the Bolsheviks to take power by October. I'm not doing "stageist cope" my interlocutors are denying that Putin is anti-communist even though critically supporting him against NATO is perfectly justified without needing to pretend he's communist.
>No he talks about 'behind the army' which was the Czarist generals who sold out the troops (Mercouris makes this point aswell)the tsarist generals were always selling out the troops. They were doing that during the Russo-Japanese war. They were doing that all through WW1. That didn't start in 1917. Putin referenced 1917 for a very specific reason and you're tiptoeing around that.
>He's correct.No. he's not. Because Ukraine being its own SSR and receiving territory from Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev, is not the reason for the reactionary Banderite regime that exists today. The reactionary Banderite regime is a byproduct of the 1940s Nazi occupation of Ukraine and of the 1990s dissolution of the Soviet Union and of CIA projects like Aerodynamic, and of the NED funding right wing groups in Ukraine. Lenin had nothing to do with any of that.
No.580166
>>580164> stategist*stageist
No.580168
>>580079Why is he talking about the collapse of the tsarist state like it was a tragedy? Either he is blaming the bolsheviks, or he is mourning the empire. And despite that I still think NATO should get their shit pushed in by him. I don't see the point in denying his anti-communism. Critical support despite that. No contradiction.
No.580170
>>580160if he has to start firing I wonder if it could handle the recoil
No.580171
>>580111>Is this what lib brainrot does to people?Yes. Are you new
No.580173
>>580164>The reactionary Banderite regime is a byproduct of the 1940s Nazi occupation of Ukraine and of the 1990s dissolution of the Soviet Union and of CIA projects like Aerodynamic, and of the NED funding right wing groups in Ukraine. Lenin had nothing to do with any of that.Lenin abolishing the Donetsk-Krivorog SSR and appending it to Ukraine did contribute to the ethnic/linguistic dispute that we have today.
No.580175
>>1513266
>The posts per hour would drop by at least 50% lol
Politely, i don't care. The tending towards posts per hour has only actively made the site worse tbh.
No.580177
>>580160shit is dangerous.
meanwhile, commissar of ukraine.
And the post in TG with the video posted a quote of agent z:
>Don't give me rides, gimme ammo. No.580180
So did something happen, why did the clowns get the courage to show themselves again?
No.580181
>>580173SSR/ASSR autism really did a number on the world
No.580183
>>1513263>ban fedjacketingit's obvious for some of us when someone is just parroting alphabet soup agencies talking points, as an example:
>>579661starting with that crap. then pretends
>one can read a single passage of disagreement.ffs. when one knows, one knows.
Marine, 36th brigade, sent to the front line without them knowing.
No.580185
>>580178I still think Wagner could solo the Baltoids ez
No.580187
>>580185then show us your calculations
No.580189
>>580178times I wish reactoids were right about something
No.580191
>>579733this explains nothing but im in tears thanks anon
No.580193
>>580168A collapse of a huge country with millions of casualties is objectively a tragedy anon. Imagine if the bolsheviks seized power in a Russia that was less factionalized and devastated thanks to the ineptitude of Nicholas and the Februaryists.
Putin's had his share of stupid anti-Soviet quotes (although, quite mild ones compared to what every other post-Soviet leader except Based Luka says) but this one didn't feel like it to me. It's just a generic "let's all get along" message.
No.580195
>>580187Well they don't have bullets or helicopters or tanks anymore so I think it would be pretty easy
No.580199
>>580180Just
HOW SCARY!, my asshole got really tight! spookie hours.
vidrel, banderite (see the OUN patch in the helmet) narrates events before the 1st of may, where two tanks got counteroinked No.580203
>>580201and they also donated those quads to ukraine lol
No.580206
>>580201Looking up the equipment of Baltoid armies is funny, they scrapped basically everything Soviet in order to buy from Germany, USA etc. Even Ukraine didn't do that.
No.580210
>>580193he also mourned the USSR collapse.
The collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century.
don't feed the ultra troll who still insists Putin is anticommunist at this point when plenty of evidence mounts to say he is not.
this was already discussed, but the recurrent trolls come over and over, and over.
No.580220
>>580217>1993If that all you've got, then he must truly be based.
No.580222
>>580217>the germans applaudeddawg wtf
No.580225
Wagner will establish Outer Heaven in the Baltic region.
No.580227
>>580220Ziggers sucking bourgeois cock will never not be funny. Stalin would have had you skinned
No.580229
>>580210>he also mourned the USSR collapse. The collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century.>don't feed the ultra troll who still insists Putin is anticommunist at this point when plenty of evidence mounts to say he is not.>this was already discussed, but the recurrent trolls come over and over, and over.He mourned the collapse of the USSR because it fractured the unity of Russian peoples, not because of communism.
No.580233
>>580222One can never tell when the KGB man is trolling unlike with the Caught In the Acts.
No.580235
>>580229Fuck I'm going to miss the bus
Who cares why he thinks he mourned it, the important fact is that he did
No.580237
>>580227Why is it that you are incapable of making a point without succumbing to homoerotic fantasy?
No.580239
>>580237Shut the fuck up, vulgar class traitor
No.580241
>>580235Who cares what he mourned, the important fact is that he oversaw the neoliberal shock therapy of the 90s.
No.580243
>>580229> it fractured the unity of Russian peoples>of the 20th centuryyeah buddy, because the Russian society is the most important thing of the 20th century.
fucking bias garbage opinion.
No.580245
>>580235Dog because he wanted to turn it into a chauvinist project. HE HELPED KILL THE USSR. He is one of the liberal chauvinists that eroded the goodwill of the different proletarian nations which rotted the USSR from the inside out. Youre such a fucking childbrained moron
No.580248
>>580227>The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step.Damn Stalin was
Zigger…
No.580250
>>578725We have you, tank anon <3
No.580254
>>580245He didn't help kill the USSR. He just didn't do anything to stop it. He was literally just some KGB dude when it happened. In the 80's he was literally in Germany the whole time lol
I don't like Putin (and I agree he is somewhat anti-communist) but you are going crazy at this point
No.580256
>>579818It's becoming increasingly normalized, even mainstream , to justify the cold war in materialist terms even if still glazed with idealism. So the west is deploying this cover of calling everything "imperialism" to muddle the waters, because otherwise to even address the matter of preserving the "liberal order" or the "rules based order" or whatever other euphemism , results in acknowledging western imperialism.
So now everyone is calling everything "imperialist" interchangeably with all the other liberal snarl words. And give it a year, I bet "imperialism" will come to be made synonymous with the big evil, the great BAD, (Chinese)"communism".
No.580258
>>580248Lazily pouring Stalin over Putinsky and the rest of the revisionists, liberals, and traitors that cannibalized the USSR from the inside just makes you more of a moron than anything else. The USSR was the transition of liberal nationalism into proletarian fraternity between nations. And retards like Cuckler betrayed all of us by choosing to remain a right wing chauvinist piece of shit. The USSR was not a colonial possesion, but libtards like Putin made sure it turned into one
No.580263
>>580256I agree and noticed this. I remember when I was younger, the term imperialism outside of Marxist circles was almost only used talking about the 19th century and shit, and when I was first entering Marxist circles, it even seemed almost antiquated to hear the term being used to describe America (of course it was right, I just didn't understand it yet). Now I see liberals throwing the term around to all of America's enemies trying to steal it I guess
No.580265
>>580256Imperialism is just a stage of capitalism Russia China and the US are all participating in.
No.580276
>Imperialism is just a stage of capitalism Russia China and the US are all participating in.
I see the same retard from the last sunday returned.
No.580278
>>580270o/u on how many Iraqi babies murdered by that truck alone, line is 10
No.580280
>>580235>>580243Ziggers please. Yes, he cares about Russian people and territories being under a common state.
You soyjack over him mourning the USSR, while he mourned the demise of Zarist Russia YESTERDAY
>Namely such a blow was dealt to Russia in 1917, when the country was leading the First World War War. But the victory was stolen from her. >Intrigues, squabbles, politicking behind the backs of the army and the people turned into the greatest shock, the destruction of the army and disintegration state, the loss of vast territories.http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/71496 No.580282
>>580280tbf Russia is a country where the Tsar, Lenin, Stalin and Putin all have poll favorably, its a bit schizo
No.580286
>>580217It doesn't matter what Putin as representative of the RF state *says* but what he does. That is the problem now, it doesn't matter if the talking heads *say* they "talked it out". Something huge has happened in the RF and it's not clear what are the consequences.
No.580288
>>580258what a waste of quads having a retarded tantrum, instead of addressing what Stalin said and providing a scientific counter-argument.
No.580292
>>580276>nooo imperialism is when… le bad! when america does things!It's not though
No.580294
>>580274I only read Xi Jinping.
No.580296
>>580288Stalin obviously didn't thought an inter imperialist struggle had a revolutionary character so there's not much to say here, all the problem lies on the mistake zigs do when they equate Russia with the USSR just like their burger liberal counterparts
No.580298
>>580292For all practical intents and purposes it is.
No.580300
>>580280he mourned yesterday the tragedy of the state being dismantled and the people under it suffering the fragmentation, not their leadership.
obssessed gargabe.
counteroffensyivyivyiv status?
another lepoard 2a6 counteroinked.
No.580304
>>580298Primary and secondary contradictions?
No.580307
>>580296>Stalin obviously didn't thought an inter imperialist struggle had a revolutionary character Yeah remember when Stalin gave that speech saying 'Both sides are Bad!' when Roosevelt and Churchill joined the WW2.
No.580313
>>580292Im not sure i agree with the definition of imperialism that says "the export of capital from the imperial core to the periphery" since imperialists dont exactly want to export their manufacturing and industrial capabilities to everyone else, but moreso they want to export the labor involved with production to the periphery i.e. sweatshops in bangladesh, and that the export of capital is downstream from the export of jobs. However i hate imperialism mainly because i believe it is the process of conquering and enslaving the world solely to benefit the whims of a fraction of a fraction of the world's population, the western unipolar bourgeoisie, in order to maintain profit margins. Also because it honestly doesnt benefit me much at all except to have cheap commodity prices, whereas my cost of living and hrt remain exorbitantly high
No.580315
>>580307Comrades, we have just received word that the United States has been brought into our war with Germany. Learning that this has now become an inter-imperialist war, we have now adopted the stance of revolutionary defeatism. I have called Adolph Hitler to surrender immediately, so that the working classes in Germany and the US have the ability to rise up and overthrow their bourgeois states
No.580317
>>580254>somewhat anticommunist>bitches about the USSR and Lenin at every chance he getsDelusional. He is the successor of Yeltsin because we would have become Pinochet if he have had his way
No.580319
>>580300>pointing out things is hohol demoralisationgrow up
No.580323
>>580312I've seen this video, it's so obviously staged it's funny
No.580326
>>580321Its a NAFO account, just report and move on.
No.580330
>>580210Saying basic facts like "Putin is anticommunist" is trolling now. I remember when the objective position of this thread was "Putin is anticommunist but we critically support him against NATO." Now it is "Putin was never anticommunist."
WTF happened?
No.580332
>>580260Ztards are disgusting liberals
>>580288The USSR was the state in power that was supposed to overcome the unfortunate necessity of the national bourgoisie of the imperialized nations of the world. It was the next and progressive step in the history of socialism of that region. If you cant understand that then you are just lazy or idiotic. Theres your scientific answer for you
No.580334
>>580173even so I don't see the utility in denying Putin's anticommunism. Just admit you critically support him
in spite of it and move on. The revisionism surrounding Putin is weird. This is Yeltsin's successor we're talking about. Just because he was KGB doesn't mean he's hiding his power level.
No.580337
>>580217>>580317In hindsight, idolizing pinochet as a model probably put putin on a collision course with the west precisely because pinochet, while an ancap, was a very authoritarian dictator, and this would have been a good indicator that putin was intending to centralize control rather than tending toward further decentralization of state power. The west overlooked his idolization of pinochet most likely because the west loved pinochet; he overthrew a democratically-elected communist, put an end to cybersocialism, and ruled over a now irrelevant personal fiefdom in latin america. On the other hand, putin was replacing the USSR's pinochet, and was in charge of europe's biggest country. Conflict was inevitable, but the west must have its neoliberal strongmen, otherwise profits will fall and the line go down. It chose to overlook putin until he became a problem. Putin was the west's fault.
No.580339
>>580323>>580312Upload it :D
(spoil it)
No.580343
>>580332>The USSR was the state in power that was supposed to overcome the unfortunate necessity of the national bourgoisie of the imperialized nations of the world. It was the next and progressive step in the history of socialism of that region. If you cant understand that then you are just lazy or idiotic. Theres your scientific answer for youno retard, a scientific answer to address
why not siding with Russia on the premise that Stalin underlines.
you are not only a troll, you can't read.
No.580345
>>580330Putin Internet Defence Force.
It doesn't matter where and why you bad-mouth him, someone will say that you're wrong because he is communist, anti globohomo, loves the third world, defender of Christianity or whatnot the local audience wants to hear.
No.580350
>>580337>Putin was the west's faultthis has always been my position on russia. the russo-ukrainian war is a fight between hollowed out privatized neoliberal states created
by and
for american imperialists. To the extent that anyone here supports one over the other, it is because of their
incidental anti-NATO characteristics, rather than any
inherent socialist tendencies. NATO made Putin.
No.580352
>>580339Well ok.
(Obviously fake GORE, ban the anon who asked not me if it's too much)
No.580354
>>580347I already have that one saved but I usually post the original because the dark knight soundtrack and vine booms and hotline miami shit at the end gets kinda ear-rapey
No.580356
>>580350>NATO made Putinyou forgot nato created Saddan Hussein, betrayed him and Iraq, and only realizing that, starts to oppose nato, and then nato kills him.
you are too stupid to go past the past.
>>580352thanks
>ban the anon who asked not me if it's too muchjesus, man.
No.580359
>>580077>No thats stageist cope
>The first successes of the February Revolution were due to the fact that the proletariat was followed, not only by the masses of the rural population, but also by the bourgeoisie. Hence, the easy victory over tsarism, something we had failed to achieve in 1905. The spontaneous formation of Soviets of Workers’ Deputies in the February Revolution was a repetition of the experience of 1905—we had to proclaim the principle of Soviet power. The masses learned the tasks of the revolution from their own experience of the struggle.
>Had not the popular creative spirit of the Russian revolution, which had gone through the great experience of the year 1905, given rise to the Soviets as early as February 1917, they could not under any circumstances have assumed power in October, because success depended entirely upon the existence of available organisational forms of a movement embracing millions. The Soviets were the available form, and that is why in the political sphere the future held out to us those brilliant successes, the continuous triumphal march, that we had; for the new form of political power was already available, and all we had to do was to pass a few decrees, and transform the power of the Soviets from the embryonic state in which it existed in the first months of the revolution into the legally recognised form which had become established in the Russian state—i.e., into the Russian Soviet Republic. The Republic was born at one stroke; it was born so easily because in February 1917 the masses had created the Soviets even before any party had managed to proclaim this slogan. It was the great creative spirit of the people, which had passed through the bitter experience of 1905 and had been made wise by it, that gave rise to this form of proletarian power. The task of achieving victory over the internal enemy was an extremely easy one. The task of creating the political power was an extremely easy one because the masses had created the skeleton, the basis of this power.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/7thcong/01.htm
>The revolution was carried out upon the initiative and by the strength of one city, constituting approximately about 1/75 of the population of the country. You may say, if you will, that this most gigantic democratic act was achieved in a most undemocratic manner.
>Tugan-Baranovsky is right when he says that the February revolution was accomplished by workers and peasants – the latter in the person of the soldiers. But there still remains the great question: Who led the revolution? Who raised the workers to their feet? Who brought the soldiers into the streets? After the victory these questions became a subject of party conflict. They were solved most simply by the universal formula: Nobody led the revolution, it happened of itself. The theory of “spontaneousness” fell in most opportunely with the minds not only of all those gentlemen who had yesterday been peacefully governing, judging, convicting, defending, trading, or commanding, and today were hastening to make up to the revolution, but also of many professional politicians and former revolutionists, who having slept through the revolution wished to think that in this they were not different from all the rest.
>Not a political idea, not a revolutionary slogan, not a conspiracy, and not a revolt, but a spontaneous movement suddenly consuming the entire old power to the last remnant.” Spontaneousness here acquires almost mystic character.
>The mystic doctrine of spontaneousness explains nothing. In order correctly to appraise the situation and determine the moment for a blow at the enemy, it was necessary that the masses or their guiding layers should make their examination of historical events and have their criteria for estimating them. In other words, it was necessary that there should be not masses in the abstract, but masses of Petrograd workers and Russian workers in general, who had passed through the revolution of 1905, through the Moscow insurrection of December 1905, shattered against the Semenovsky regiment of the Guard.
>maybe the intellectual life of those circles of the intelligentsia was scientific, who slavishly adapted themselves to this liberalism, senile since childhood, protecting their imaginary independence the while with long-dead metaphors? In truth here was a kingdom of spiritual inertness, spectres, superstition and fictions, a kingdom, if you will, of “spontaneousness.” But have we not in that case a right to turn this liberal philosophy of the February revolution exactly upside down? Yes, we have a right to say: At the same time that the official society, all that many-storied superstructure of ruling classes, layers, groups, parties and cliques, lived from day to day by inertia and automatism, nourishing themselves with the relics of worn-out ideas, deaf to the inexorable demands of evolution, flattering themselves with phantoms and foreseeing nothing – at the same time, in the working masses there was taking place an independent and deep process of growth, not only of hatred for the rulers, but of critical understanding of their impotence, an accumulation of experience and creative consciousness which the revolutionary insurrection and its victory only completed.
>To the question, Who led the February revolution? we can then answer definitely enough: Conscious and tempered workers educated for the most part by the party of Lenin. But we must here immediately add: This leadership proved sufficient to guarantee the victory of the insurrection, but it was not adequate to transfer immediately into the hands of the proletarian vanguard the leadership of the revolution.https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/ch08.htm No.580361
>>580356>you forgot nato created Saddan Hussein, betrayed him and Iraq, and only realizing that, starts to oppose nato, and then nato kills him.Didn't "forget" this. Not sure why you're changing the subject to something I didn't "forget" and that you have no evidence of me "forgetting."
My position here is that Putin is anti-communist but should be supported for his anti-NATO tendencies. But I keep running into revisionists who feel the need to pretend he
isn't anti-communist and also want to pretend I'm some kind of NAFO troll for pointing out that he's anti-communist.
>you are too stupid to go past the past.You are digging into the past for examples unrelated to our conversation and claiming I have "forgotten" them but are also too stupid to go past them. Try making a coherent statement.
No.580366
>>580343You moron Ive been arguing against Cuckler's fetishization by the ztards of this board, not against "supoorting"(lol) the RF's little war in the Ukraine. Which, by-the-by, the only reason why that tragedy is happening because the USA decided to colonize the RF like the rest of Eastern Europe, not integrate it as junior partner like it does with France, Germany, UK, Turkey, etc, which flies right in the face of libshits like him to whore out in profitable fashion what was built by proletarians
No.580369
>>580361>is anti-communistagain he's not. as I pointed out here:
>>580224 and here
>>580075if he's anticommunist, god I would love the west was this anticommunist.
he's not communist, just in case you go spazzing and change what's said>>580330this nwever happened, lmao
No.580370
>>580268Why is "Siberia" written on the tank?
No.580372
>>580164>Putin referenced 1917 for a very specific reason and you're tiptoeing around that.
>The bourgeoisie, frightened by the refusal of the Mensheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries to join a bloc with the Cadets, and by the probability of the democrats being quite capable of forming a government without them and governing Russia against them, are doing their best to intimidate the democrats.
>During the past half year of our revolution, we have experienced very strong spontaneous outbursts (April 20-21,[1] July 3-4) in which the proletariat came very close to starting a civil war. On the other hand, the Kornilov revolt was a military conspiracy supported by the landowners and capitalists led by the Cadet Party, a conspiracy by which the bourgeoisie has actually begun a civil war.
>The spontaneous nature of the movement leading to the proletariat beginning civil war is thus beyond doubt. On the other hand, there is not even a trace of anything resembling spontaneity in the Kornilov revolt; it was merely a conspiracy of generals who hoped by fraud and by the force of military command to carry part of the army with them.
>We all know the aims of the Kornilov revolt, and no one among the democrats disputes that those aims were a dictatorship of the landowners and the bourgeoisie, dispersal of the Soviets, and preparations for the restoration of the monarchy. The Cadet Party, this main Kornilovite party (by the way, it ought to be called from now on the Kornilov party), possesses a larger press and greater forces for propaganda than the Bolsheviks, but it has never dared and still does not dare to tell the people openly either about the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie or about the dispersal of the Soviets, or about the Kornilovite aims in general!https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/sep/29.htm
>At the first stage of its development the Russian revolution transferred power to the imperialist bourgeoisie, and created, alongside of that power, the Soviets of Deputies, with the petty-bourgeois democrats in the majority. Our Party remained, before and after May 6, a minority opposition. This was inevitable, for we are the party of the socialist proletariat, a party holding an internationalist position. A socialist proletariat whose outlook during an imperialist war is internationalist cannot but be in opposition to any power waging that war, regardless of whether that power is a monarchy or republic, or is held by defencist “socialists”.
>The struggle against our Party, therefore, began in the very first days of the revolution. And however infamous and abominable the forms of struggle carried on by the Cadets and the Plekhanov people against the party of the proletariat, the meaning of the struggle is quite clear. It is the same struggle as the imperialists and the Scheidemann people waged against Liebknecht and Adler. This is a struggle of the whole of bourgeois society, including the petty-bourgeois democrats, however r-r-revolutionary they may be, against the socialist, internationalist proletariat.
>In Russia, this struggle has reached a stage where the imperialists are trying, through the petty-bourgeois-democratic leaders, the Tseretelis, Chernovs, etc., to destroy the growing power of the workers’ party at a single hard and decisive blow. As a pretext for this decisive blow, Minister Tsereteli has struck upon a method repeatedly used by counter-revolutionaries: the charge of conspiracy. This charge is a mere pretext. The point is that the petty-bourgeois democrats, who take their cue from the Russian and the Allied imperialists, need to do away with the internationalist socialists once and for all. They think that the moment is ripe for the blow. They are agitated and frightened, and under the whip of their masters they have made up their minds: now or never.
>The socialist proletariat and our Party must be as cool and collected as possible, must show the greatest staunchness and vigilance. Let the future Cavaignacs begin first. Our Party conference has already given warning of their arrival. The workers of Petrograd will give them no opportunity to disclaim responsibility. They will bide their time, gathering their forces and preparing for resistance when those gentlemen decide to turn from words to action.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/jun/26.htm No.580373
>>580369>again he's not. He's not in the CPRF. He does not support the CPRF. He does not claim to be communist. He rarely mentions class struggle. He is a multimillionaire with a huge investment portfolio. He was Yeltsin's hand-chosen successor. He saw Pinochet as a model. He mourns the USSR for the same reason he mourns the tsarist empire: Because of the loss of
national stability. He is a bog-standard conservative bourgeois nationalist. That is objectively anti-communist in its class character. You can support Putin all you want against NATO, but there is zero (I repeat ZERO) utility in this revisionism of pretending he's not an anti-communist.
>as I pointed out here:You did not "point" out anything. You merely issued blanket denials and called contrary evidence "cope."
No.580374
>>580369Cuckler is anti-NATO by accident. Cuckler is anticommunist by nature of his status as a bourgeois dictator
No.580375
>>580368tbf it’s a bit disingenuous when you are replying to anons who are replying to another guy who is saying we shouldn’t critically support Russia because Putler is anti-communist. But for the record I agree with you and only one guy is saying Putin isn’t anti-communist (charitably I’ll assume he is saying this in relation to other liberal statesmen but you never know if someone is a full retard)
No.580376
>>580374>>580373mmm delicious salty tears.
deflect all you want.
No.580377
>>580370because that was where they were planning to go after toppling putin
No.580378
(also "cuckler" cracks me up every time)
No.580379
> In the event that Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Wagner PMC appear on the territory of the Republic of Belarus, we will have to strengthen the entire eastern flank of NATO (c) Lithuanian President Nausėda
No.580381
>>580292It's intrinsically tied to the US. The US united the great nations that achieved capitalism in its monopoly stage and centralized a capitalist world system. It's through the US and the way it negated European divisions could the latter's colonial order turn into an international order led by the US, which sits atop the UN-led one in a sort of dual power situation. It's the order of the metropolitan core of world capitalism. Without the US and the way it unites imperialism, all imperialist states would lose power to the international order outside of this core through their feuds. The BRICS semi-periphery champions the latter order and its militant Sino-Russian core wants an end to this dual power situation, thus multipolarity and its anti-imperialism. The UN-led international order displacing the unipolar one means their periphery regions can self-integrate more freely.
No.580382
>>580379lol sorry buddy, nato is overextended enough as it is, no refunds
No.580383
>>580364I feel you bro.
I not so long posted how I don't have Putin in my heart in any particular special spot, like Luka, Xi, Fidel, Raul, Evo, Mao (early days), Lenin, Chávez, Stalin…
I wish I could attack him from the left, but with substantive arguments, but here is not possible with the ultras.
No.580388
>>580384an anticommunist can't have a reasonable argument about taking socialism back to Russia and agreeing with a communist about looking a path forward, btw, interested in the Chinese model
>inb4 China isn't socialistgo on, say it, you stupid ultra.
No.580390
>>580388<inb4 China isn't socialist>go on, say it, you stupid ultra.I don't think that though! I think China has a bourgeois political economy because they have to survive unipolarity, but is otherwise governed by a sincere Communist party trying to bring about socialism. I regularly point this out to ultras. How about you ask me what I think instead of assuming what I think?
No.580391
>>580376also you're responding to two different people here who don't even necessarily agree with each other on the finer points. don't know if you realize that.
No.580392
>>580390>>580388also I love this deflection "haha you ULTRA, if you think PUTIN is anticommunist I bet you also think CHINA is anticommunist"
1. we aren't discussing china, we're discussing putin
2. I don't think china is anticommunist, so way to burden your position with a dumb assumption about me that isn't even true
3. what a deflection
No.580394
>>580392So you think China is socialist?
No.580395
>>580370max level shitposters
No.580397
>>580376If i was stuck in a room with a ztard and kissinger with a gun and two bullets id shoot kissi ger twise and then smash the ztards skull into the floor with the butt of the gun
No.580398
>>580389sheet_he_just_come_out_and_say_it_HEVC_x265.mkv
fake elections and westerners behind the scenes
No.580399
>>580396a poorly faked video posted by your regular ukrainian news TG channel (Cyrillic: TP/XA)
No.580400
>>580389Who cares? The RF, a liberal country, will either become imperialist or succumb to imperialism. There is no alternative
No.580401
>>580389If only revolution came in the west…
No.580402
>>580394I think they are governed by a socialist party but have a transitional political economy that is embedded in a unipolar capitalist system beyond their immediate control. I think they are sincerely making a long term effort to transition away from capitalism, but that their transition depends on a lot of things going on outside the country.
No.580404
>>580402>>580394also i like how you continue to steer the conversation away from the original subject
No.580406
so, it was El Tanquetazo to test the waters
according to the canon, the real thing comes in September
No.580407
>>580405Damn he's just like me in WoT! >:3
No.580408
>>580350>incidental anti-NATO characteristics>inherent socialist tendenciesYou mean, like… material actions triumphed over ideological purity once again?
No.580409
>>580408Vulgar materialism hours
No.580410
>>580409Oh yeah? What makes it vulgar? Not enough pissing and shitting myself over ideology?
No.580411
>>580404I'm not the other guy and I'm not disagreeing with you, but the post I responded too seemed weasdely for deliberately changing the word "socialist" (or more specifically "not socialist" to "anti-communist". Other than that, mostly agreeing besides that I think it is pretty retarded to try to imply there is a difference between materially and circumstantially
No.580413
>>579733fucker is the one-handed king
>one handed fucking axechops wood while bitching about liberals
>one handed aklike it's an umbrella
No.580414
>>580412who cares if the cat is black or white as long as private property is defended
No.580415
>>580410You dickride Putin because he is forced to fight NATO. A historical accident. Then you cover up your slavish salivation of your fetish using socialist quotes. Fuck off. The proles of Ukraine are being shoved into Ukro-nazi arms at the behest of Kalibr missiles, all the while RF proles are being belt fed the most esoteric of liberal-chauvinist attitutes as propagandistic education. A multipolar world will give a better chance at communism, but thats all it will give
No.580416
>>580415bro real talk, how many vaccines did you get as a kid
No.580417
>>580415>A multipolar world will give a better chance at communism, but thats all it will giveIt's more than we get now, and it's enough. I accept your consneeding.
No.580418
>>580417A horrible cost that liberals like Cuckler helped create
>>580416Bro real talk how many lead ingots you sucked on while you were a kid
No.580419
>>580417It's pretty funny how in the end (unless they are omega-austistic ultras or actual legitimate libs) they will always admit they agree with us but are just buttmad about some shit they made up in their head
No.580420
>>580418More like liberals like Stalin and Khrushchev. :^)
Also, imagine describing Western hostility towards Russia as a "historical accident". Real historical literacy right there. Is this what reading too much theory, and not enough data that theory is based on, does to a mf?
No.580421
>>580418Not enough apparently because I still retain the ability to read your spergouts
No.580425
>>580421Neck yourself ztard
>>580420Accident as in Cuckler and his libshit friends happily accepted their new roles as gusanos, compradors. But unlike most SSR's and Warsaw Pact countries, the USA chose to balkanize the RF instead of accepting it as a junior partner like the EU countries.
No.580428
>>580425>sit on top of way too much resource wealth>Western porky wants it for themselves, instead of compradoring them>accidentlel
No.580429
>>580426How is it glowie? Because Im saying that Cuckler will never betray how his massive fortune is made? By never refusing to be a bloodsucking parasite? You are infantile
No.580430
>>580428By their measurements, yes. What you thought they would sell and privatize to develope their allresdy manufacutred productive forces? Retard
No.580431
>>580425>>580429>>580430Do you mind just not posting? Your autism is annoying and clearly you are doing mental damage to yourself
No.580432
>>580431Neck yourself ztard
No.580433
>>580432I'm asking for your sake, not mine
No.580435
>>580434>>580433Socialism is when i bury the ussr and beg nato for acceptance
No.580437
>>580435Who's fighting NATO now?
No.580438
Even as a former Putler poster I am in awe of the Cuckler posting. It used to be that even obviously joking usage of Putler could send a zigga into a frothing rage.
No.580441
>>580438>frothing rageI'm sure it was real in your head.
No.580442
>>580437The islamic state?
No.580443
>>580441Putler is a NAFO psyop you fed!!!!
No.580444
>>580424I haven't looked into India, but I'm guessing that current mentions of India being on the cusp on great growth with Modi are the exact same bullshit as the exact same mentions before Modi, because there has never been any actual attempt at actually development the godforsaken country. All that cunt Modi is doing is seizing on that old source of bullshit for himself without actually doing anything to actualize that potential, and the West is gladly helping his comprador ass keep India throttled (not that the previous rulers of India weren't comprador, they just were so to a lower degree) while claiming it's finally the country's time to shine. Basically, just a Bolsonaro who didn't completely fuck his abominable power project yet.
How close am I to the truth?
No.580445
>>580388>an anticommunist can't have a reasonable argument about taking socialism back to Russia and agreeing with a communist about looking a path forward<a bourgeois politician ruling a bourgeois state is not anti-communist because he made vague positive comments about socialism to another (infamously cucked) politician What zero material analysis does to a mf.
No.580446
>>580444"Service-based economy" is the greatest prank the West has pulled on India.
No.580448
>>580394Yep. Even the Cuban, DPRK government confirm them to be socialist
No.580450
>>580446I'm convinced that a third of the indian economy is based on swindling boomers out of money with fake tech support scams, and that if the scams stopped the indian economy would collapse overnight
No.580451
>>580449The Five-Year Plan (to build Call Centres)
No.580452
>>580437Because NATO refused the RF you massive fucking moron
No.580453
>>580427I completely lost respect for him very recently when he shitted up Latin America.
>>580405A T80. that 120mm cannon hits hard, so it seems.
and yes, those are kypis. very characteristic mud flap.
>>580407BF3 told me a MRAP
No.580454
>>580453>>580407kek, posted in a hurry.
>BF3 told me a MRAP can withstand a 120mm direct hit.what a lie.
No.580455
>>580453You had respect for some nobody monarchist?
No.580456
>>580423of course, a couple of groups of reactionaries would love to get rid of Putin.
>>580455didn't know that, kek. now to the trash his TG.
No.580458
>>580452>Because NATO refused the RF you massive fucking moronAnd do you think the circumstances are likely to revert that disposition? Because otherwise whatever Putin thinks changes nothing if the material circumstances still force the RF to be in opposition to US/NATO and dependent on China.
Another thing is that, unless Prigozhin's stunt was fully staged as a psyop, Putin seems to be a figurehead. One that just got publicly mogged by a loudmouthed clown persona after promising said clown fire and brimstone. So Putin's personal opinion on things may matter even less than previously assumed.
No.580459
>>580452Psst. Stalin asked to join NATO, too.
No.580460
>>580457I'm gonna eat those rabbits
No.580461
>>580460Never ate rabbit but I've heard it tastes "gamey"
No.580462
>>580459not only that, he wanted to join the bretton woods accord and participated openly in their cretion (though most of their proposals got rejected, like the europeans. the u.s. felt really smug those years)
No.580463
>>580459To prove a political point? Retard
>>580458I think that if they were to change. If, say, the USA permitting European integration in order to focus on China, I would have no doubts that the RF will gladly throw itself into the gas tanks of Germans, Anglos, French, and Italians
No.580464
>>580463Ah, so Putin's attempt was completely different, and proved no political point?
No.580465
>>580464Holy fuck. You cannot be obtuse. Stalin wanted to join NATO because it was obstensibly post ww2 alliance of great powers to maintain international peace, not an anticommunist alliance. He wanted to prove it was a farce in order to have the justification to create the Warsaw Pact
Putin wanted to join NATO because it wanted integraiton as a junior parter within the Pax Americana
No.580466
>>580465>b-b-b-but his motivations!So? He got reminded that NATO is, was, and always will be an anti-Russia alliance.
No.580467
>>580466not in any special way. NATO is anti every nation that it imperializes, youre such a romanticist
No.580468
>>580466>So? He got reminded that NATO is, was, and always will be an anti-Russia alliance.The fact that he needed to be reminded is what's sad
No.580470
>>580468Reality takes its toll. It is not negotiable.
No.580471
>>580465>it was obstensibly post ww2 alliance of great powers to maintain international peaceno, by the time bretton woods already happened, and the Soviets knew there was a lot of fishy things about the u.s., nato wasn't saw as a way to maintain peace. they wanted to join to
see what is…https://dzen.ru/a/Y4ItbTYv7BFxsiyyMachine translated:
<Stalin believed that NATO was not a peaceful organization
>Initially, NATO consisted of 12 countries that positioned the tasks of the union as "ensuring the security of each of the members of the treaty." For Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, such a formulation seemed stupid, and therefore the attempt of the USSR to join NATO was a completely logical step. Stalin ordered that documents be prepared as soon as possible for an application to join NATO.
>And everything was done fairly quickly. Already at the beginning of 1949 (NATO was officially founded on April 4, 1949 - ed.), the then Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR Vyshinsky sent a note to the British Parliament, in which a request was written to consider the possibility of the Soviet Union joining NATO.Not only that, Stalin also wanted to create the same neutral zone away of the USSR, like Putin wants to do, but still comes closer:
>In a note dated January 29, 1949, to the government of Norway, the USSR stated that the proposed creation of NATO provides for the creation of bases for this bloc near the Soviet borders. Therefore, in that document, Norway was “asked” whether it intended to join NATO, and whether this would mean the creation of military bases on Norwegian territory. At the same time, through diplomatic channels, the USSR proposed the creation of a North European zone of neutrality, and a similar idea had been put forward by Sweden since 1948.https://topwar.ru/26930-stalin-i-nato-hronologiya-sobytiy.htmlAlso, noteworthy, Krushev in their 'de-Stalinization' double-down the same intention to join.So this join attempts are more like:
>bro, is this organization about invading us or not?and in each rejection, it's proven the west wants to invade Russia.
No.580472
>>580469NTAnakanon, but read:
>>580471 No.580473
>>580450in their senility boomers have become accidentally anti-imperialist and begun transferring wealth to the global south
No.580474
>>580472thanks. What was the fake reasoning NATO put forward for each rejection?
No.580475
>>580470Yes and the reality is that Putin needed to be reminded of what's obvious. Cheers.
No.580476
>>580469It's not Stalin or Khrushchev directly that ask for these sorts of things, it's the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Molotov. And I doubt either Stalin or Khrushchev had any illusions about NATO.
No.580477
>>580474good question, and I have no idea. perhaps they addressed some security issues, or incompatible doctrines, don't quote me on that.
No.580479
>>580478Libs have a deep stetted fear that whoever replaces Cuckking is not going to be the "good lib" they dream of but rather a guy whose finger will not tremble when he pushes the nuke button.
No.580480
>>580478The truth broke their brains
No.580482
>>580453>I completely lost respect for him very recently when he shitted up Latin America.lmao when?
No.580483
>>580476>It's not Stalin or Khrushchev directly that ask for these sorts of things, it's the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Molotov. I'm aware. I was simply asking who was general secretary when this negotiation happened because you said pic related.
>And I doubt either Stalin or Khrushchev had any illusions about NATO.wasn't suggesting to the contrary.
No.580484
>>580369Putin is an anti-communist, but the Ukraine crisis is specifically about decommunization. Decommunization as a way to expand global capitalism selects for Europeanness by selecting for those nationalities which can form a nation-state out of a multinational state (which define the east per Stalin), repeating a process the bourgeoisie historically depends on. The multinational state is supposed to be the USSR whose ties are now conserved by the Putinist All-Russian empire.
In reality the multinational state is the SSR in question, they are not nation-states and they internally contradict with the process of "a nation becoming a state" that defines the west per Stalin. That internal contradiction is rationalized as 1989 happening all over again, but now the empire is internal. But it's still the confrontation with an empire from which emerges the liberal bourgeoisie. So Russians in Donbass represent an 'empire' and need to deal with the foreign-sponsored 'decommunization' of Ukrainians becoming a state, which is just national supremacy in a multinational SSR with a liberal-democratic veneer. Once that reactionary colonial war is out of the way, Ukraine can develop an open society, unite the nation and Europe, and contain Russia, which is enraged by how much democracy is flowering in the region as it degenerates.
No.580485
>>580478Putin will go soon or become a powerless "emperor" at best
after yesterday's happening, the real coup is just a few months away
No.580486
>>580484you are correct but the anon you are talking to is beyond reason. they are perfectly convinced putin is not anti-communist even though he is a member of an anti-communist party and the ruler of a bourgeois post-communist government who has personally accumulated a vast bourgeois fortune during Yeltsin's privatizations by taking direct ownership of means of production. All they see is based former KGB agent who owns the libtards and is anti-imperialist by sheer accident of history.
No.580488
>>580484>Russia, which is enraged by how much democracy is flowering in the region as it degenerates.The neocolonies of the post Soviet states is obvious. Democracy is not flowering anywhere, in fact, liberal democracy is retreating from the effects of its own instability and rushing to the hands of the fascists
No.580489
>>580486There's simply no doubt that as of recently Putin is not anticommunist but at the very least communist curious
No.580490
>>580482the Friday night. he said that Russia will eventually end up like Latin-American tier garbage governments if the Russian state is not resolute in crushing prigozhin or allowing him to do whatever he pleases.
See:
>And, yes, I thought that something like this would be closer to the fall, but rather already in the fall and always against the backdrop of new defeats at the front. Although in advance (more than once, who on my page for a long time can testify) publicly suggested that Prigozhin could play a significant role in the coup or its attempt. Therefore, for me, the rebellion right now is also a bit of a surprise. The hasty withdrawal of Wagner from the front and Prigozhin's active struggle for "a place near Belgorod" gave me the idea that he was preparing a "march on Moscow" (from Belgorod to Moscow is definitely much closer than from Lugansk). But the competition was won by Akhmat. And, finally, Prigozhin's actions are a real stab in the back and cannot be perceived differently by me. Not to mention the fact that his possible rise to power will immediately cause:>- rebellion in Chechnya and the beginning of the 3rd Chechen campaign (inevitable);>- a very likely collapse of the front and the enemy's invasion of the Crimea, the fall of Donetsk and Lugansk;- the beginning of the process of disintegration of the Russian Federation;
<- A short, but very dirty and bloody period of the "dictatorship of the Latin American model." Without rules and without laws - according to criminal "concepts".throwing mud over Latin America out of nothing.
https://t.me/strelkovii/5643Not the first time, when I dig up more:
>On the page of "Colonel Kassada" (B. Rozhina) I observe an undisguised triumph over the "triumph of the left in Bolivia". If I understand something in Latin American affairs, then Rozhin's "party" joy (stupid, if only because the "leftists" (including numerous "Trotskyists" and their ideological followers), coming to power, many times brought countries Latin America to complex economic and political collapse, but never to prosperity) is premature.
>I believe that in the end we will observe 2 scenarios in Bolivia:>- a new military coup BEFORE or immediately AFTER the return of Maduro;>- the triumphant return of Maduro, a large-scale flight from Bolivia of all "European" (in terms of original origin) ethnic elements, coup attempts, civil wars and complete degradation.
>Whether I'm right, or B. Rozhin, the party-jubilant Internet-leftist-theorist, is right - the next few years will show.https://t.me/strelkovii/618 No.580492
>>580488>The neocolonies of the post Soviet states is obvious. Democracy is not flowering anywhere, in fact, liberal democracy is retreating from the effects of its own instability and rushing to the hands of the fascistsYea decommunization doesn't produce liberalism. I don't know what you call a Ukrainian nation state carved out of the 'empire' represented by Donbass and other multinational areas, but it's not a liberal democracy like the Western nation states. It's a farcical recycling of western nationalities becoming states that represents a multinational eastern state fighting itself to the benefit of exploiters
No.580493
>>580484Again with that reasoning…
another speech of Putin:
https://www.belrussia.ru/page-id-7543.html>“As for the small discussion that unfolded at the Council on Science and my assessment of the Soviet past, I, like millions of our citizens, was a member of the Communist Party. And not just the Communist Party, but worked for 20 years in an organization called the KGB, and it is the heiress of the Cheka, which was called the armed detachment of the party. I can’t say that I was an ideological communist, but nevertheless <I treated it with care. I was not a functionary, I was an ordinary member, but I did not throw away the membership card, did not burn it. I really liked and still like some of the ideas of the Communist Party. If we look at the code of the builders of communism, it is very reminiscent of the Bible, and this is not a joke.”again, he's not anti-communist. anti-communist have no sense of respect for communism at all, and given the fact anti-communists once in power anti-communism, they are very recalcitrant reactionaries towards communism.
No, he's not communist, and I reckon some moronic attacks to the USSR.
No.580494
>>579296Leftists by nature tend to be word masturbators. A single tone-deaf phrase can break their brains, while another single tone-deaf phrase can make them cream their pants. An example of the latter – many examples actually – can be found in Cucktin's annexation speech and other speeches last year, in which many people were hoping for some kind of concrete ultimatum that would compel Ukrainian surrender but got a bunch of titillating history-lesson phrases instead.
No.580495
>>580489>as of recently Putin is not anticommunist but at the very least communist curiousHe is nationalist and interested in breaking away from NATO and might even be interested in a more dirigisme like economy, and reversing the privatization and looting that happened under yeltsin. But nationalization of key industries is not enough to say someone isn't anti-communist. Plenty of anti-communist leaders nationalized key industries.
No.580496
>>580489He really wants to be a full-on anticommunist but material conditions hit him on the head really, really hard. He wants to venerate Gorbachev's death, but at the same time the people who support Russia against the West are not liberals like himself but rather communists and third world countries
No.580498
>>580490I don't think a ¿Monarchist? whatever could do a "broken clock speaks truth twice a day" so easily, and I was correct.
I bet that he is referring to Sicario-yellowesque hollywood stereotype with latin america of lawlessness and gringos overhead. Although sadly, this is truth to an extend for most of latam history after the spanish left the mainland.
Mexico had Santa Ana more than 3 times as president (lost them half their country and still got the chair again), Central America imploded, same with Colombia and in the end, a consolidation of even a pale bourg state just was archieved in the XX century in the small banana republics.
But the second part seals that he is a retard.
>Maduro will bring economical chaos to BoliviaThe gamer move of joining both countries seem to have happened only in his head
>If Maduro (lmao) wins heckin race war/fleeingHow can anyone take this seriously?
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