/leftypol_archive/ - leftypol archive

>>585486
Oh my Lord!!

i don't believe in the termite in the basement/hologram/controlled demolition shit but i do believe that the intelligence agencies knew about the attacks and let it happen to start the war on terror

>>585490
this. 100%

>>585490
The schizo theories like thermite and controlled demolition are most likely seeded by the government to make general speculation about the event associated with said schizos. If the US government did 9/11 they would have just flown the planes into the buildings. It's not like they would have a hard time obtaining Boeing 747s considering, you know, Boeing is a huge military contractor. They also could have just remote controlled them or even put extra explosives on board to ensure the towers fell. There is no reason at all to do all those complicated extra steps.

The only aspect where that's somewhat plausible is the whole Building 7 thing, but if that was a controlled demolition they just rigged it separately to go off when the towers went down. The Pentagon being hit by a cruise missile or whatever is also possible since we don't have a shitload of footage of it from multiple angles.

It's possible they redirected the real flights and shot them down over Canada or some shit like that, but the most likely scenario is basically the official story except that it was orchestrated behind the scenes by various intel services probably including US assets to some degree.

>>585494
>1st video
It's standard procedure in news production to record stuff to play back a bit later. Inconsistencies like this are 100% expected. The people being british means that most likely the reporter is standing in front of a screen playing non-live B roll footage of the city because that's what they could get their hands on at the time.

flood

>>585497
>Afghanistan opium
Oh boy whatever you do, don't cross-reference the geopolitical maneuvering around controlling Afghanistan with the rise of the opioid epidemic.

>more than zero replies
>no-one's pulled out the playlist
shameful display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Channel_memorandum#List_of_songs

>>585504
>Also included under the ban were several happy and celebratory songs (famously including Louis Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World"), as Clear Channel believed playing joyful music in the aftermath of the attacks was inappropriate.
lol
lmao

>>585502
fentanyl doesn't use poppies tho

>>585506
No, which is part of why the US left Afghanistan when it did. Fent and other synthetic opioids beat out heroin and controlling the poppy fields lost relevance.

Reminder that >>>/edu/8394 is the Conspiracy Theory thread with 9/11 discussion feel free to repost effort-posts.

>>585490
I was already an adult when 9/11 happened and I can tell you that nobody on the conspiracy forums believed in something like holograms, which nevertheless was constantly debunked in the MSM and if you were critical of the US government, you got confronted with that epic debunking. The theory you refer to on the other hand was so popular online it even got its own abbreviation: LIHOP.

My instincts also told me the US government could not be behind it. I can imagine them killing US citizens in a false flag, but surely they would have killed more ordinary people instead of high-income yuppies.

What’s the reason 9/11 happened anyways? It occurs to me that growing up the explanations I got were tantamount to just “they hate us for our freedom.” And it’s one of those things I’ve never really focused on. Seems like all it accomplished was giving America a blank cheque for adventurism.

>>585512
>What’s the reason 9/11 happened anyways?
Osama Bin Laden wrote a "Letter To America" explaining his ideology behind doing 9/11. In the letter, Bin Laden accuses the United States of a range of grievances, including military occupation, support for Israel, economic exploitation, cultural invasion, and support for autocratic regimes in the Middle East. He uses these perceived injustices as reasons to justify the violence perpetrated by Al-Qaeda. Bin Laden argues that the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were a response to American policies that have caused suffering and death in the Muslim world. He calls for the United States to reconsider its actions and urges individual Americans to convert to Islam and reject their government's policies.

Osama's ideology was a sort of reactionary form of anti-imperialism. Osama is an interesting figure because he was essentially a war tourist failson from a wealthy Saudi family and heir to a construction/real estate dynasty. He traveled to Afghanistan with his "Arab mujahideen" (Afghans are not Arabs, hence the distinction) and helped fight the soviets. This is where he first became famous and also possibly got funding/weapons directly or indirectly from the CIA's Operation Cyclone. After the Soviets left Afghanistan, Osama Bin Laden took his small group of loyal mercenaries and converted them into construction workers in Sudan. After the USSR fell, he turned his sights on the USA, who he saw as almost as bad as the USSR (he hated the USSR for being a militant atheist communist state, but with that out of the way he turned against the USA more, who he saw as degenerate jew-loving capitalists) .

He orchestrated the 9/11 tacks with 19 hijackers, 15 of whom were Saudi. His family's ties with the Bush family went back to 1976, mostly through Saudi oil business and construction work. So many people saw the Bushes and Bin Ladens as having done 9/11 together.

Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]
"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]
Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not. Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him.
While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:
(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:
(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
a) You attacked us in Palestine:
(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.
(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.
When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.
(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.
(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.
(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;
(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.
(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.
(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.
(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.
(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.
(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.
(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.
(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.
(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.
(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!
(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:
(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.
(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.
(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.
(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.
(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.
(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.
The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question:
Why did they attack us in New York and Washington?
If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so we are addressing it using the language it understands.
(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.
(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.
It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.
(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.
(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.
(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.
We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.
(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:
(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?
(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.
(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.
(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.
Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?
(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.
(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.
(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.
(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.
(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.
(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.
(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?
(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.
(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!
(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.
(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.
(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.
(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.
What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"
(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.
(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.
(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.
(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.
(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you.
If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise." [Quran9:13-1]
The Nation of honour and respect:
"But honour, power and glory belong to Allah, and to His Messenger (Muhammad- peace be upon him) and to the believers." [Quran 63:8]
"So do not become weak (against your enemy), nor be sad, and you will be*superior ( in victory )if you are indeed (true) believers" [Quran 3:139]
The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire life:
"Think not of those who are killed in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive with their Lord, and they are being provided for. They rejoice in what Allah has bestowed upon them from His bounty and rejoice for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve. They rejoice in a grace and a bounty from Allah, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers." [Quran 3:169-171]
The Nation of victory and success that Allah has promised:
"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other religions even though the Polytheists hate it." [Quran 61:9]
"Allah has decreed that 'Verily it is I and My Messengers who shall be victorious.' Verily Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty." [Quran 58:21]
The Islamic Nation that was able to dismiss and destroy the previous evil Empires like yourself; the Nation that rejects your attacks, wishes to remove your evils, and is prepared to fight you. You are well aware that the Islamic Nation, from the very core of its soul, despises your haughtiness and arrogance.
If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice and the goodness, guidance and righteousness that we call them to, then be aware that you will lose this Crusade Bush began, just like the other previous Crusades in which you were humiliated by the hands of the Mujahideen, fleeing to your home in great silence and disgrace. If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.
This is our message to the Americans, as an answer to theirs. Do they now know why we fight them and over which form of ignorance, by the permission of Allah, we shall be victorious?

>>585493
>The schizo theories like thermite and controlled demolition
Except they're not? There is evidence in analyses of the metal and there are photographs of literally molten Steel Beams that google has done its best to purge from the internet, the "Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams" meme didn't just come out of nowhere, it's a literal fact. The planes struck the structure near the top and even they had been packed with explosives, would have simply destroyed the top. The structure of the WTC was built SPECIFICALLY with the possibility of a plane crash in mind and so was sectioned, so that if one section's support beams failed for some reason (and those fuckers shouldn't have failed against what amounts to a thick aluminum can that can be busted up by a bird strike) then the rest of the building would remain standing. But nope, the WTC collapsed straight down like someone cut a puppets strings, in literal free fall. That is PHYSICALLY impossible unless you have controlled demolition of the support beams. I've seen it done before too, it's common practice for construction companies, but never on buildings that big because of the possible collateral.

Furthermore the evidence of the supposed terrorists passports being found in the wreckage site was so implausible its fucking laughable. The list of inconsistencies is endless.

As to the USA not being able to be behind it, need I remind people of Operation Northwoods, which was basically this in a nutshell? Except it was a Cassus Belli to attack Cuba instead of Iraq.

This stream of "The USA didn't do it and there was no thermite" smells like a glowie op trying to blend in by "admitting" to some fuckery that is undeniably obvious, but denying more lesser known stuff. I'm not even going to mention that the US government sold the wreckage metal as scrap to China to be melted down, so nearly all the criminal evidence on site is gone now.

https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/evidence-overview
https://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/jc50.2008/9-11Sharrett/2.html
https://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf
>Mangled WTC steel bought by China
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2002-01-27-0201270268-story.html

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228660396_Active_Thermitic_Material_Discovered_in_Dust_from_the_911_World_Trade_Center_Catastrophe

Undisputed Facts Point to the Controlled Demolition of WTC 7
https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2017/04/28/AE911Truth-NIST-Written-Submission12-18-07.pdf

It's not even 9/11 yet dawg.

>>585516
this is addressed in the OP

>>585515
retard alert

>>585515
If it was controlled demolition, why did america frame the saudis and not iraq/afghanistan?

>>585517
As you can tell I didn't read OP.

>>585518
No argument, glowie

>>585519
>why did america frame the saudis and not iraq/afghanistan?
You clearly don't remember what was actually said or who was accused and who the USA atttacked.

The only 9/11 that matters.

9/11 Trutherism is a denial of the existence of imperial blowback.

>>585523
No glowie, stop trying to dress up your lame attempt to discredit those that try to unveil the truth. Obfuscating it with leftist talking points, doesn't make it any less of a scam. The blowback exists, but the CIA not only wanted it but needed it.

>>585524
>Saying that the most significant example of imperial blowback in history was a false flag by the American government isn't a denial of imperial blowback
Okay.

You know, sometimes shit just happens. Everything isn't connected to some grand, purposeful, convoluted scheme.

>Oh, but the government wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan!
They didn't need to destroy the World Trade Center to do that. It is actually completely possible for a national tragedy to be a thing that legitimately happened AND for the government to have used it cynically to further their foreign policy goals.

>>585525
glowie
>They didn't need to destroy the World Trade Center to do that
they didn’t NEED, they could have made up some other shit but letting a new pearl harbor happen was too good to pass

>>585525
>>585526
Actually instead of just shitposting I'll give you a great counterpoint, and one with profound anti-CIA results: Stuxnet.
For a decade, since 2010, the security community discovered Stuxnet as "the world's first [known] cyber weapon", a worm written by US and Israeli agencies, programmed to cause nuclear industrial equipment in Iran to malfunction (e.g. centrifuge spinning to fast and cause physical damage) affecting at least 14 sites. These machines were air-gapped; not connected to the internet or other networks, implying someone had to infect the computer locally.

That's basically all we knew until about a couple of years ago, and it was considered an impressive success and evidence of the groundbreaking cutting-edge supremacy of the US's hacking capabilities, next-level shit. Instead of spoiling the newly-uncovered blowback with a shitty typed recount, I redirect you to pod/vidrel, skip to 3:32.

gotta repost this leftypol classic

>>585529
Ready for the two year anniversary, thanks comrade.

>>585529
>LQ
please

>>585531
wym

>>585532
we need the HQ copy too, 1080p BluRay rip 7.1 surround sound bass-boosted edition

>>585526
>>585528
>Destroying the World Trade Center and killing thousands of people in what was and is arguably the world's most important city isn't significant example of imperial blowback
>Actually some computer virus is more significant

>>585527
>th-they needed to be dramatic!
You know, a good false flag doesn't actually do that much damage and also can be carried out secretly enough that you can frame whomever you're trying to frame, and then doing it in a way that points a finger at the person or group you're trying to frame. It wouldn't involve completely destroying the World Trade Center with potentially thousands of people complicit in the undertaking, and which pointed to people who were only peripheral to the people you actually wanted to attack.

A false flag flag operation would have looked something like setting off a bomb in the World Trade Center with planted evidence conveniently pointing to some bogus joint operation between the Taliban and the Fedayeen Saddam.

It wouldn't involve crashing two planes into the towers with a possible controlled demolition which completely destroyed the towers and then had the evidence point to Al Qaeda, a small jihadist militia based in Afghanistan, but had no real, direct affiliation with the Taliban and was directly hostile towards Iraq.

>>585535
>Actually some computer virus is more significant
By far.

>>585536
>akchually some power grids getting fucked up is way more important that a massive amount of destruction and death in the beating heart of world commerce
This is what vulgar contrarianism looks like, folks.

>>585535
>>some computer virus
a computer virus that did what…?
what's up with people just reducing events happening to the most retarded thing ever
>stuxnet made to blow up nuclear shit in iran
<oh some computer malware was programmed? XD so what!!
>fall of the berlin wall
<oh, some wall was destroyed? XD so what!!

>>585538
>stuxnet made to blow up nuclear shit in iran
Nuclear power plants don't explode, dumbass. There's an important difference between fuel grade uranium and weapon grade uranium.

Regardless, some power grids getting fucked up isn't as significant as the attacks on the World Trade Center. To pretend otherwise is to be a flagrant contrarian.

>>585539
>made to
>MADE TO
>MADE TO
lrn2read fag

>>585537
Vulgar contrarianism looks like writing condescending strawmen because you've already disagreed with an idea before you understand it. There weren't even power grids anywhere in the event, you're literally inventing an enemy to complain about.

Yes, the blowback of that US sabotage in Iran was far more than ramming a plane into the Pentagon and two into the World Trade Center. And if you need to be hand-fed a quick spoiler because your impatience demands you'd rather spend your time shitposting than watching the better explanation video, so be it:
Systematically dismantling the CIA's entire rings of spies in China, Cuba, Iran and more was far more significant than a thousand nobodies dying and increased airport security theatre.

>>585541
No, that was nor more significant than the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 attacks nearly crashed the world economy instead of embarrassing the US and setting back some of their espionage goals.

You're downplaying the importance of 9/11 because people you don't like exaggerate the importance of 9/11. That's contrarianism.

>>585542
>The 9/11 attacks nearly crashed the world economy
lmao do burgers actually believe this shit?

>>585541
>There weren't even power grids anywhere in the event, you're literally inventing an enemy to complain about.
Retracting this: a couple of the targets were incidentally power grids, but the main targets were the nuclear research program.

>>585543
It's like Fight Club, or Kampuchea. You blow up the banks and money dies. Off-site daily backups in London and Sydney also die too :(

>>585543
The burger mindset lacks the necessary groundedness because of its lack of a decent healthcare to medicate their delusions.

>>585543
Cuckservatives will believe anything Uncle Sam tells them

>>585542
>The 9/11 attacks nearly crashed the world economy
Ziggas really think you can't collpase capitalism by killing bankers and rich people

>>585543
>>585544
>>585545
>>585546
>>585547
Are you guys zoomies or is this the goldfish memory people have these days where they can't remember anything longer than five years ago? The impact of 9/11 was to cause the US economy to go into a quick nosedive, which was reversed by "War on Terror" spending.

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0911/the-impact-of-september-11-on-business.aspx

How long before Ukrainian neo nazis kill hundreds or thousands of Americans in a similar attack? What we've done in Ukraine is bigger and there's much dealier hardware involved than in operation Cyclone. If I were a betting man I'd say under five years.

>>585549
banderites will 9/11 poland with F-16s after they're forced into a peace deal with russia that gives up crimea and the other territories that russia annexed
screencap this

>>585529
>rapid taliban gains "deeply concerning"
:DD
>>585550
ogay

>>585549
Anon Uke neo-nazis will kill gypsies, poles, russians, Ukranians before they will ever think to kill an american.

>>585553
free food is free food
dog bless ameriga :DDD

>>585490
The terminte bullshit is a planted narrative to distract from the real conspiracy. You're onto something.

>>585521
>You clearly don't remember what was actually said or who was accused and who the USA atttacked.
You're missing my point. If it was a false flag, then why was it announced on all mainstream media day one that the hijackers were mostly saudis, that Osama Bin Laden (a Saudi) did it. If the entire thing was a US government psy op to invade iraq/afghanistan, then why didn't they pretend the hijackers were from Iraq/Afghanistan in the first place. It makes a lot more sense for it to be a real terrorist attack done by Saudis, that was subsequently used as an excuse to invade other countries, then to say that the entire thing was the US government doing a massive psy op, that the passports were planted, that it was a controlled demolition, etc.

I often repost that very picture.

>>585515
citing 911truth.com oh no no no

>>585536
Gentoo anon this is actually retarded

>>585558
1) I've not cited that site anywhere
2) No argument glowie.
3) Get stuffed

>>585522
This. September 11th, 2001 was the day that years of supporting Islamic clero-fascists blew up in their face; September 11th, 1973 was the day the future died.

>>585561
Oh god it's the 50th anniversary this year too.

>>585560
>erm ackshually it's ae911truth.org so that changes the argument sir

Brah

And especially calling other people glowies, why shouldn't I say you glow?

So much of your sources use that bunk website the last source uses AE911truth.org while hiding behind the .gov source. The one credit I can give is that the researchgate article does measure and conclude there are chips of nano-thermite in the rubble of the WTC. So what? It's an association that jumps to a conclusion. I'd believe thermite hypothesis if we knew when it was put in there, who put it there, and that they admitted it. It's much easier for me to believe that the planes did collapse the towers and thermite theorists are shit at understanding architecture than feds planting nano-thermite in the twin towers undiscovered for years, told Al-Qaeda to fly the planes in a specific floor for them to go off, and start a forever war that has destroyed faith in the US government by the United States population and its hegemonic military and economic superiority by fucking over the middle east with new terror groups by ISIS
All to pass what, a security act?
You glow so bright you need to blame someone else for being the light source.

>>585488
Fuck I was looking for that Westley meme! Here, have his "Horned Owl" video. First time I saw this I assumed one of us made it.

>>585565
Ah fuck I didn't see that it had already been uploaded>>1587796

>>585563
>erm ackshually
<using this outdated meme lingo
Go back glowie

>that changes the argument
It doesn't matter, you're not parrying the argument you're attacking the source with the "muh conspiracy" ad hom, which is literally a CIA tactic to discredit whistleblowers.
>hiding behind the .gov
Not hiding honey, that site was made by engineers that saw discrepancies in the narrative, just as 911pilots did in terms of the aircraft inconsistencies in the reports.
>They found nanothermite
<S-so what if they found classified explosives in the rubble, that doesn't mean anything!
Kill yourself you alphabet soup glowstick
>It's much easier for me to believe that the planes did collapse the towers
because you're either a glowie or an actual imbecile that knows nothing about architecture or demolition.
>thermite theorists are shit at understanding architecture
Nope, try again.
>start a forever war that has destroyed faith in the US government by the United States population
And yet the US continues to create wars and has done so since before 'Nam and the population didn't like it then either, but they didn't do or achieve much, did they? Dissent only matters if it actually impacts the US hegemon, which it hasn't.
>All to pass what, a security act?
Imagine being this fucking disingenuous.
1) The Patriot Act was just one part of a massive amount of legislation, political actions and more that followed, including the formation and use of Guantanomo-type secret prisons with impunity against US citizens, the ability to remotely conduct surveillance on every persons phone, computer and car, the ability to arrest and imprison people without trial for "treason" or "terrorism" and an open check for the military spending budget. The list goes on, 9/11 was a massive excuse for basically every action under the sun and was used to beat any dissenters over the head for over a decade while the US attempted to invade or destabilize 7 countries in 5 years.

>You glow so bright you need to blame someone else for being the light source.
The glowie trying to redirect their obvious COINTELPRO posting by accusing the others of being glowies, typical. Go back, langley-kun.

>>585549
I really think the blowback will hit Western Europe and Russia far harder than America. A while ago some Italian nazis who trained with Azov got caught stockpiling weapons, so I expect we'll see a similar situation going forward to what was happening with ISIS: Europeans go to Ukraine to get trained and battle-hardened then come back and start blowing shit up, or Ukrainian neo-nazis filter through to the West as refugees and start blowing stuff up.

>>585567
>And yet the US continues to create wars and has done so since before 'Nam and the population didn't like it then either
NTA and somewhat off-topic, but this isn't true. The majority of the general public supported the war until Nixon told them it was costing too much money and the South Vietnamese had to go on by themselves, at which point the majority position switched to "time to withdraw". This was good for the US government because it allowed them to give in to the demands of anti-war protesters on its own terms and with majority support.

>>585569
>The majority of the general public supported the war
The public was largely against the war as it went on, initially the Gulf of Tonkin false flag(!) was enough to justify it to the public, but as people came back and news reports about the atrocities occurring there made their way to the USA through people like Kronkite, the general public, especially the youth became vocally against it. Considering that at the same time the Black Panthers were very active and the Black Rights movement had scored several wins before JFK was killed, the USA was at its most volatile internally since the 1930s and yet the Government managed to keep people placated enough to keep sending over draftees to be jugheads for the military-industrial meat-grinder.
>This was good for the US government because it allowed them to give in to the demands of anti-war protesters on its own terms and with majority support.
Yes I definitely agree on this point, but my wider point here is that the USA has always had such controversial wars ongoing. Public outrage has never been a deciding factor because the US government always plays its cards right. Anti-war sentiments in the 2000s were balanced out by the jingoism that the 9/11 falseflag illicited, which was especially important considering the Bush was losing favor in ratings and the military industrial complex needed a new war after the Yugoslav/Serbian conflicts wound down.

>>585567
Stop glowing Fed, your psyop is showing ;)

>>585559
Of course not. I would go so far as to suggest it was a big trigger for the Chinese "tigers and flies" anti-corruption campaign, and it was at least critical to its successes, when it was confirmed the extent of how deeply penetrated their party was by US intelligence assets.
You can't just start a war to fix when all your main enemies, including the emerging world superpower and a socialist neighbour, suddenly clean house of your entire spy rings and are shutting down your efforts at replacing those losses with perfect accuracy and efficiency.

If you know how important the CIA have been historically at fucking over every socialist state, you'll know that the blowback from the attack was no small win.

>>585516
just as it is always election season, it is always 9/11

it's not funny you guys, a bunch of innocent people died. we should be respectful

>>585574
Holy shit how did he not get arrested?!

>>585556
he had no answer lol

>>585578
Nah, just didn't see the reply until now, I don't live on this site all day, I actually do things in the real world.
>If it was a false flag, then why was it announced on all mainstream media day one that the hijackers were mostly saudis
That's not how I remembered it so I looked it up I looked at all the archived articles for NYT and other large news groups from September of 2001
https://www.nytimes.com/sitemap/2001/09/12/ (for example)
https://archive.is/SUYLZ
>The Saudi connection was barely touched upon in the media and after the initial statements hardly mentioned as the "War on Terror" began to be executed. It was likely a warning to Saudia Arabia to toe the line and stay in the USA's good graces.

>If the entire thing was a US government psy op to invade iraq/afghanistan, then why didn't they pretend the hijackers were from Iraq/Afghanistan in the first place
Not just Iraq and Afghanistan, the plan was to make the entire Middle East America's playground, and in doing so sow chaos. Bin Laden is a confirmed Spook since the 80s.
>It makes a lot more sense for it to be a real terrorist attack done by Saudis
Except that makes no fucking sense at all. The Saudis were not enemies with the USA and were in fact its closest allies in the Middle East after Israel. It is beyond asinine to connect a supposed group of Saudis led by an outcast Saudi terrorist hiding in Afghan Caves to the Saudi government. There's no point in inciting a false flag against the Saudis when Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran and Afghanistan were the areas that were either not under control of the USA at all or under questionable control at best.
>that the passports were planted
The passports being planted is the easiest fucking thing in the world, especially to a federal government which has the facilities to create a real passport in minutes. Fucking smugglers make false passports in the basements of Drug cartels but the possibility of these whole and clean passports being planted is unlikely? Give me a break.
>that it was a controlled demolition
A building cannot physically collapse like that without severe structural damage to EVERY FUCKING SECTION. There are numerous witness reports speaking about it regarding WTC 7, there is numerous physical evidence regarding the Twin Towers and witnesses to that too, and a bevy of engineers that have outright stated it to be a impossible collapse without controlled demo and proven it with studies and research. The proven presence of nanothermite traces are even more evidence, because there is absolutely no reason for it to be there and if it had been in the plane then the question becomes how did nano-thermite, something that only the military of the USA and maybe Russia and China have, somehow end up in a passenger plane that just got hijacked suddenly? Did the terrorists use shadow clones to replace all the luggage with thermite?

>>585579
Reply for >>585556 as well

lul

>>585579
<still 20 plus years later arguing up and down against a retard burgoid who believes 'the saudis did it' because it's a nice sound bite
You retard. You can't argue against stupidity or burgerbrain why are you even trying?

>>585485
>Discuss whether America deserved 9/11.
America is actually behind 9/11. To lower stock prices so that investors could buy up NYSE stocks. Also an excuse to blame Muslims for everything related to violence.

Oh, and also picrel. It's the 50th anniversary of the other 9/11, also conducted by the US.

>>585561
>>585562
RIP ALLENDE

>>585582
Pic rel m8 is why

>>585579
> I don't live on this site all day, I actually do things in the real world.
same, don't know why people always play this dumb word game where they pretend the person they're arguing with has no life.
>The Saudi connection was barely touched upon in the media and after the initial statements hardly mentioned as the "War on Terror" began to be executed. It was likely a warning to Saudia Arabia to toe the line and stay in the USA's good graces.
The media reported on the hijackers very early on and what nationality they were. If the whole thing was a top-down attempt by the US gov to do a false flag, they would have framed the hijackers as being from the countries they wanted to invade, not a top US ally. That really is a glaring hole in the whole idea of it being a false flag. This is why I simply believe they let it happen on purpose. It doesn't totally discount malfeasance while at the same time not attributing near-omnipotence to them.
>Not just Iraq and Afghanistan, the plan was to make the entire Middle East America's playground, and in doing so sow chaos. Bin Laden is a confirmed Spook since the 80s.
I know. explained that earlier in this thread. The US attacked Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, and also did some stuff in Pakistan and Niger. It wasn't just "the plan" to fuck with the entire MENA, region, that's actually what they did… except for their allies, Saudi Arabia.
>Except that makes no fucking sense at all. The Saudis were not enemies with the USA and were in fact its closest allies in the Middle East after Israel.
When I said the saudis I meant the actual wahhabist extremist Saudi nationals who hijacked the planes, not the Saudi Kingdom itself, I should have been more clear
>It is beyond asinine to connect a supposed group of Saudis led by an outcast Saudi terrorist hiding in Afghan Caves to the Saudi government.
Didn't mean to suggest that.
> There's no point in inciting a false flag against the Saudis when Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran and Afghanistan were the areas that were either not under control of the USA at all or under questionable control at best.
But why did the government-controlled media report on the nationality of the hijackers being mostly Saudi, and also UAE, Egypt, Lebanon, when the countries the US attacked in its war on terror were none of those countries? if the US wanted to frame these countries, which they did, but also had total control ovedr the attack, which I do not think they did, then why wouldn't they have simply fabricated some Afghan or Iraqi hijackers? Their false flag would have been more consistent if they had chosen actual patsies from the country they intended to invade, instead of patsies from allied nations.
>The passports being planted is the easiest fucking thing in the world, especially to a federal government which has the facilities to create a real passport in minutes. Fucking smugglers make false passports in the basements of Drug cartels but the possibility of these whole and clean passports being planted is unlikely? Give me a break.
Right. It's easy. I agree. So why did they pick SAUDI passports? you keep missing this point. Why are they framing SAUDI ARABIAN NATIONALS?
>A building cannot physically collapse like that without severe structural damage to EVERY FUCKING SECTION. There are numerous witness reports speaking about it regarding WTC 7, there is numerous physical evidence regarding the Twin Towers and witnesses to that too, and a bevy of engineers that have outright stated it to be a impossible collapse without controlled demo and proven it with studies and research. The proven presence of nanothermite traces are even more evidence, because there is absolutely no reason for it to be there and if it had been in the plane then the question becomes how did nano-thermite, something that only the military of the USA and maybe Russia and China have, somehow end up in a passenger plane that just got hijacked suddenly? Did the terrorists use shadow clones to replace all the luggage with thermite?
I think 15 saudis and a few other wahhabist bozos decided to fly planes into the WTC and then the bush admin used that as a carte blanche to invade a bunch of unrelated countries. if it was a false flag they would have planted afghan, iraqi, libyan, syrian, somalian, and yemenese passports, not saudi passports. Capiche? If they have so much omnipotence that they could sneak thermite onto every floor of both twin towers they could have better framed the countries they invaded. Does that make sense?

>>585582
Saudis nationals did it. Not the saudi gov. if it was a US false flag and they had total omnipotence to frame whoever they wanted, plant passports, etc. why didn't they plant passports from the countries they eventually went on to invade? Why did they plant passports from saudi nationals?

>>585587
>Saudis nationals SUPPOSEDLY did it
FTFY
>why didn't they plant passports from the countries they eventually went on to invade?
Because the average American doesn't know the difference between Iran and Iraq or where they are, let alone who the Saudis are.

>>585586
>The media reported on the hijackers very early on and what nationality they were
It was barely mentioned and not immediate. Moreover going by your map there's an important pattern to notice - people from pro-US Middle-Eastern countries, commit "terror" and then an invasion of another country is begun. If anything the USA simply recruited martyrs for itself from countries it was already allied with. This isn't unusual given that Osama was literally on their payroll for decades. And then they can easily say it was the opposite, that Iraq or Iran or whoever recruited these people from "allied" countries to commit terror
> they let it happen on purpose.
And all the interceptor fighters nearby at the time just happened to be in war game activities on the same day? And the thermite and demolition just happened by accident? No, they didn't just let it happen, they helped it happen.
>actual wahhabist extremist Saudi nationals who hijacked the planes
The current Saudi government is just as wahhabist as the terrorists. They're horrendous.
>if it was a false flag they would have planted afghan, iraqi, libyan, syrian, somalian, and yemenese passports
Not necessarily, that's the problem with 9/11 - it was very shoddy in its numerous inconsistencies, but given how well it worked, discrepancies in this revival of Operation Northwoods were paltry.
>If they have so much omnipotence that they could sneak thermite onto every floor of both twin towers they could have better framed the countries they invaded.
The logistics of physical destruction are a lot easier than the PR element.

TL;DR: The Saudis were barely a factor in the American consciousness, to Americans it was some generic arabs because all middle-east countries are just arabs to them. The number of people that noticed discrepancies was not large enough to be a threat and could easily be dismissed as traitors and schizos, and as time goes on this only continues. It's like with any other CIA operation, it doesn't matter if some people know or understand, they're not going to raise enough dissent to matter to such a massive hegemon.

>>585589
You know what? You convinced me!

DPRK once built a replica of South Korea's presidential building and raided it in an attempt to prepair for a real raid, which failed.

DPRK should build replicas of the twin towers, then fly replica boeings into them, to prove the USA attacked itself on 9/11. As a bit.

>>585489
I can't figure out what this video is trying to tell me.

>>585491
<tim osman.mp4
If you're funding the actions of militants you are complicit, materially there is no looseness to this.
If you were trying to fight neo-nazis would you spare the one bankrolling everything?

Or am I reading too much into this? Obviously bush did 9/11 but I feel like pointing out the lack of formal organization is not a gotcha in terms of critiquing a war strategy.

>>585593
there was a guy named Kevin Westley who released a never-before-seen video of the 9/11 attacks 20 years after they happened. He released it on youtube. It accumulated millions of views in a matter of days. His description said he uploaded it in 2001 and forgot to private it. People pointed out that Youtube didn't exist in 2001. He edited the description to say he uploaded it "in the 2000s." People subsequently used Youtube API to investigate the true upload date, which was 2017. People then did a background investigation on him and discovered he was a wealthy defense contractor with quite the career background. Chief Engineer at Boeing (Virginia). Military Commisioner in the US Air Force 1991-2003, Chief Integrator, B61 Nuclear Bomb Program Management Office, Chief Concept Developer at Branch J69 of the US European Command, etc. He happened to be filming 9/11 when it happened from a very good angle, but his footage was never turned over to the media or circulated at the time of the attacks like most videos were. Nearly anyone who had a video of the attacks turned it over to the media at the time because people were eager to study the attacks from different angles. This guy didn't. This, coupled with his very stilted "Oh my god. Oh my lord. Oh my god. Oh my lord." over the footage of the attacks, while everyone else is very very sincerely screaming in terror, along with what looks to be him checking his watch, have led many to speculate that he was knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, and was deliberately positioned at the spot to witness them, and make sure they were on time, etc. He also went on to be involved in top secret operations in Iraq, and when he retired, a very weird tribute video was made for him. This is titled "horned owl.mp4" and you can find it in this thread elswhere.

>>585595
forgot to take it off private*

Holy shit my milk expires on 9/11, thanks for reminding me

>>585598
That would have been a tragedy D:

>>585595
Thanks a lot anon didn't expect such a nice rundown

Remembering 9/11 demonstrators in Chile commemorate Salvador Allende.

>>585493
>The only aspect where that's somewhat plausible is the whole Building 7 thing, but if that was a controlled demolition they just rigged it separately to go off when the towers went down.

The thing I dont understand about the building 7 theories is like… why? why would they place explosives in the building to destroy it? I mean both of the towers had collapsed, thousands had died. What is the point of adding another building to this huge demolition conspiracy? It just makes no sense if you think about it.

>>585591
Good to know. Also found this recently https://www.floridabulldog.org/2023/04/ex-fbi-agents-accuse-top-cia-fbi-officials-9-11-coverup-cia-domestic-spying/

>>585605
>why would they place explosives in the building to destroy it
That's for us to figure out, because WTC 7 was definitely controlled demolition. I even recall seeing the news reporting it had fallen, even though you could see it still standing behind them in the live broadcast… and then it collapsed straight down. That's not even talking about the witnesses talking about all sorts of shifty people in the building that day.
>It just makes no sense if you think about it.
Really now, destroying part of the World Trade Center as part of a massive false-flag is that nonsensical to you?

Found a 4 hour video showing the real time footage of the event, including the turn of the century burger commercials in the lead-up

>>585607
>Really now, destroying part of the World Trade Center as part of a massive false-flag is that nonsensical to you?

Yes it is absolutely nonsensical. WTC 1 and 2 had already collapsed. The US had already gotten the massive tragedy it wanted thousands had died. So what is the point of placing explosives inside an empty building and detonating them 8 hours AFTER the other buildings had collapsed? The point is that its illogical, its not like America wasn't totally on board with retaliation until WTC 7 collapsed.

The supposed demotion of WTC 7 served no purpose, it did not meaningfully increase the fervor rampant after 9/11, all it seemed to do was fuel conspiracy theories that the US gov was behind the whole thing. And if the US government was behind its collapse all it did was include MORE people in this conspiracy making it less sound.

Its much more reasonable to believe that maybe 2 sky scrapers falling on top of WTC 7 could have damaged the structural integrity of the building. Plus the building was already on fire before the collapse's.

Some of you guys are alright. Stay out of cities tomorrow.

>>585609
Destroying records?
Collecting insurance?

>>585577
This is one he did get arrested for in Aus

>>585612
Man it was a different time with that shit.

>>585609
> The US had already gotten the massive tragedy it wanted thousands had died. So what is the point of placing explosives inside an empty building and detonating them 8 hours AFTER the other buildings had collapsed?
What >>585611 said about destroying records and collecting insurance as well as continuing the tension and fear after the initial terrorist news, so that the fear and anger wouldn't ebb, to create a scale of "terrorism" that was unmatched before or after and so be the ultimate cassus belli.
>if the US government was behind its collapse all it did was include MORE people in this conspiracy making it less sound.
You seem to be under the impression that the USA cares about a few hundred more of less people pointing out their conspiracy, when they have an entire glowing apparatus to seed these groups with shit like flat-earth and other nonsense, to discredit them. Controlled Demolition happened, that is a fact. it is also a fact that such an Op is impossible for a bunch of insurgents, it's the kind of work that requires a professional demolition crew or special forces to pull off efficiently, and nano-thermite isn't exactly freely lying around.
>Its much more reasonable to believe that maybe 2 sky scrapers falling on top of WTC 7 could have damaged the structural integrity of the building
No, no it isn't because there's no evidence in the videos of significant amounts of debris falling and that's also not how building collapses work, the amount of time it would take a traditional building like the WTC-7 to collapse like that from a fire would be immense and considering the steel supports nearly impossible, if at al. Debris falling on top doesn't explain why it collapsed down, not inward, or outward as a building with fire and collision-based-damage does.

Yaaaaay happy birthday america!!!!!

>>585614
Happy 9.11

>>585613
>Controlled Demolition happened, that is a fact.
No. it is not a fact thats why we are debating it right now.
>What >>585611 said about destroying records and collecting insurance as well as continuing the tension and fear after the initial terrorist news, so that the fear and anger wouldn't ebb, to create a scale of "terrorism" that was unmatched before or after and so be the ultimate cassus belli.

So the collapse of an empty building led to that? Not the collapse of the twin towers, the plane into the pentagon etc.
The point im making is that it is literally completely unnecessary for WTC 7 to have been destroyed

Happy 9/11 !!!

Happy 9-11.

The Real 9/11
Never forget

>>585621
9/11 IS JUST A PHONY!

>>585617
> it is not a fact
Yes it is, and the proof has been posted and linked in this thread. It is not up to discussion and the only ones that won't openly admit to it are the US Government.
>the collapse of an empty building
It wasn't empty and your argument is assinging a false dichotomy. WTC 7 was a large building and there was some reason for it.
>The point im making is that it is literally completely unnecessary for WTC 7 to have been destroyed
That you know of, and regardless that doesn't change the fact that it was.

Whew. This thread is proof positive we live in clown world.

Happy 9-11!

>>585625
saved, never seen this one before lol

I remember how weak the left felt around that time
It feels so much stronger now
As I look into the anti-war movement of the 2000s it really seems like, in a moment of total defeat, we really stopped giving a shit and just went all the way, without care for "optics" or "alienating support."
The reactionary line is that being a leftist was "punk rock" back in the day, but I think materially we just felt like we didn't have a shot so we became completely honest and brash about what we believed in. We didn't give a fuck back then.

Posting this banger from Mike Gravel
https://youtu.be/2dsXO8vxYQM

All buildings matter

>>585631
I hope someone sets off some firecrackers in front of this faggot's house.

Happy 9/11, world!

>>585634
Even the Reichstag?

>>585631
I had to look this up. The backpedaling is insane.

>>585640
babe wake up, new 'jaks just dropped

Happy Twin Tower Allende Benghazi Day Comrades.

Here's a very good playlist by S4A on 9/11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_afblAmWK_M&list=PLXUFLW8t2snuqf4QrAyOg3V4pVM6nVV59

Remember what the Americans took from the Chileans and what they were given in their stead. Never forgive and never forget.

>>585642
Album cover from June 2001 btw

Happy 9/11 comrades 🥳

>>585640
who tf is watching 6 minutes of some dog barking the american national anthem, he should simply kill himself nothing else needs to be known about him

>>585648
>some dog barking the american national anthem
I know this is a metaphor, but if it were literal, I would actually watch this

>>585513
>Osama Bin Laden wrote a "Letter To America" explaining his ideology behind doing 9/11

Bin Laden didn't orchestrate these attacks and not even the USA says so. This is insane that people still think this way. Bin Laden has never taken responsibility for these attacks either.

>>585650
He claimed he did it in 2004. But, groups take credit for each other's work all the time with these sorts of events. I don't think his initial denial and subsequent taking credit means much overall for determining who really is responsible.

Btw, for people saying, "Why did they frame Saudi nationals instead of Iraqis?", an explanation could be that the American government just selected an international group of Arabs without regard for nationality, which fits the narrative that the war on terror has to be widespread. So, the hijackers are portrayed as being from a bunch of different MENA countries - the point that could be made then is that the whole region is a hotbed of terror. And, it keeps countries like Saudi Arabia in line, since they're part of this region.

>>585640
nevermind i h8 verterans now

>>585630
They look so happy

9/11 feels like the biggest non-event in human history. Aside from the security state surveillance nothing has changed. The Taliban is back in control of Afghanistan.

>>585623
>It wasn't empty and your argument is assinging a false dichotomy. WTC 7 was a large building and there was some reason for it.

Cant take you seriously now because its literally a simple google search to know that nobody died in the collapse of 7 WTC

>>585654
>9/11 feels like the biggest non-event in human history. Aside from the security state surveillance nothing has changed.
Zoomer-hands typed this post. Tell that to the millions who died in the wars caused by this massive psyop. Holy shit.

>>585656
read theory, brainlet

9/11
24/7

>>585657
>read theory
Already do, your post is still shit on so many levels.

>>585659
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars did not take place

9/11 be like

>>585608
>3 minutes of adverts at the beginning
Do burgers really?

Just found a link to the SA thread where they discussed 9/11 as it happened http://www.truegamer.net/SA_911/911%20SATHREAD/

>>585640
That guy is so annoying that his personality constitutes a weapon of mass destruction.

any pre-2010s / y2k 911 memes?

>>585655
>reddit spacing
>google search
>nobody died in the collapse of 7 WTC
Nobody OFFICIALLY died there. We have no way of verifying it and there's more than one account of someone being heavily injured and/or killed in an explosion in the basement, moments before the evacuation was called. Also I find it highly improbable that an actual emergency evacuation of a building that rapidly collapsed had no casualties, when even during drills people constantly fuck up and would be dead in real life fires. Are you genuinely implying that everyone in WTC 7 filed out perfectly and safely with no incidents or fuck ups? In a real life emergency?
Don't make me laugh.

Maybe a dumb question but speaking of WTC 7, is there any chance at all it collpased from falling debris of the other towers or is that simply impossible? Afaik I've never seen any video of WTC 7 falling (can't remember in my mind at least) so I have no idea in what manner it collapsed, if it was similar to the two towers, etc. If no debris fell on it however then it seems no other explanation can explain why it fell if no planes hit it unless a controlled explosion brought it down (unless debris from the plane(s) fell on it? I don't know about that either).

>>585664
0____0

Kek

>>585666
>pre y2k 9/11 memes
the FBI probably have something in their database lmao

>>585595
appreciate that anon

>>585489
>>585595
>wealthy defense contractor
kek he supposedly has an account on tankie reddit bc his son-in-law told him to register there
https://hexbear.net/u/kwestley
pretty sure this is a bit but another video in the thread presents it like it's actually this dude at 1:35 >>585628
<this site is not what I thought
<I need to speak with my son in law.

>>585627
>he writes Sept 11
so what, coincidence
>A Bush is simultaneously on the TV talking about the middle east
Come on man

>>585675
>>A Bush is simultaneously on the TV talking about the middle east
Not just that, it's literally the bit where H.W. is talking about Iraq invading Kuwait being pretext for the first gulf war.

>>585676
Lebowski was released in 98, maybe the Coens were warned that PNAC ghouls were in the ascendant. How the fuck is the date correct tho

>>585629
fun fact: I once had a lecturer at uni use the "unknown unknowns" thing in a positive way in a discussion about epistemology, without pointing out the obvious ethical quandary of causing hundreds of thousands of deaths during the "finding out" part. This lecturer also still supported the US invasion of Iraq. This was recently too, only about 2 years ago.

>>585677
They included the Bush clip because it instantly places the movie at a specific time for people who were alive to remember that moment. The 9/11 part is probably a coincidence and only stands out because that is the context in which the video is being presented to you. They showed the check because it's joke that he can't pay $0.69 for a carton of milk, and it gives the opportunity to characterize him with the scribbles and the blue whale, and to show his name and other details. Later in the movie (the next day) the landlord tells him "tomorrow is already the 10th" meaning he was kiting the check because he can't pay the 0.69.

The part that is weird is that the dates given (the check says '91) are after the Gulf War, which ended in January/February that year. Bush's comments were made on August 5, 1990. This is plausibly just a production error, although they had to get the Bush footage to put it in the film so presumably they knew the timeline. One would assume that The Dude wouldn't mis-date the check by over a year (the idea is for the error to be small enough to miss), but maybe lol.

>>585493
>schizo theories are most likely seeded by the government
<"conspiracies provides easy, automatic explanation for new phenomena, which otherwise would threaten the belief system"
The feds must be responsible for making people think I'm a manchild with simplistic, childlike narratives to pretend there is some agent out there controlling everything, instead of the world being random chaos between conflicting power and hegemony.
>>585515
>"Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams" is a literal fact.
>That is PHYSICALLY impossible
"Engineers for 9/11 Truth" exists because engineers are the most retarded and credulous class, these morons need an app to tell them to drink water or go to the bathroom, imagine being too reddit to function yet thinking you can tell other people about how the world works
>The list of inconsistencies is endless.
We live on earth and not the sterile liberal imagination of a idealized laboratory. "Jet fuel can't melt steel beans" is like that "imagine a 4 meter wide spherical cow" physics logic. The impossible happens all the time, the lottery is improbable but people still win.
>smells like a glowie op
"smells like glow" imagine being so schizo you have synesthesia and can smell light
>>585524
>attempt to discredit those that try to unveil the truth
"You're calling me a radlib who lacks historical materialism? That's weak glowie propaganda" Please seek therapy and read Marx
>>585631
>"You don't care at all about the people of Afghanistan"
https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/06/talibans-successful-opium-ban-bad-afghans-and-world
<Historically, there have been examples of successful opium bans in Afghanistan (2000-2001)
lol
>doing the internal work of realizing international conflict is messy and complicated and often has good and bad parts
neoliberal Ted Lasso soy fascism obscuring the historical materialist reality of satanic finance imperialist class war

>>585666
Now this is a story all about
how two buildings got flip turned upside down

>>585680
>The impossible happens all the time
lolwat

>>585680
>"Jet fuel can't melt steel beans" is like that "imagine a 4 meter wide spherical cow" physics logic. The impossible happens all the time, the lottery is improbable but people still win.
wut
The reason the jet fuel meme is retarded is that you don't have to MELT a metal to undermine its structural integrity and cause it to fail.

Happy 9/11!

mfw zoom zooms think "le ameriga deserved 9/11 hurr hurr my bestie Hasan said so" while it was actually a clandestine psyop that successfully got America back in the middle east militarily as well as sway public opinion for foreign wars in order to continue its imperialist expanse.
>America deserved 9/11, it was the sins of hegemonic empire coming home to roost
no, undialectical radlib retardation
<American neoliberal capitalism planted the seeds, funded, controlled, and carried out 9/11 because it was a necessity for empire to go to war and sustain itself for at least a few more decades.
To say America deserved 9/11 is inadvertently cementing the narrative of the US state department by offering a contrarian acceptance of the official line. Eat shit socdems.

>>585685
>Calls others socdems
>anarchist flag
Master baiter

>>585685
you're right but you're also big bad, consider not letting the cortisol enter your blood stream so much. you're like the guy who argues against ACAB by pointing out dorner. yeah, you're right, but nobody cares.

>>585687
*big mad

>>585679
>They included the Bush clip because it instantly places the movie at a specific time for people who were alive to remember that moment.
Big Lebowski takes place in '91 but was released in '98. Is it really necessary to place such a specific thing that was only 7 years old? especially something that has zero to do with the rest of the film?

>The part that is weird is that the dates given (the check says '91) are after the Gulf War, which ended in January/February that year. Bush's comments were made on August 5, 1990. This is plausibly just a production error

Yes it is merely a coincidence that they made the date exactly 10 years before 9/11, in order to "establish the setting" while also making a blatant continuity error, just to show that The Dude is broke.


FACE IT. JEFF BRIDGES DID 9/11.

>>585666
does this count?

>>585514
>This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

This fucks. Guess he didn't anticipate americans could be so easily brainwashed tho - nobody read this and just went with the state dept narrative that "muh muslims hate our freedom". Im too young to remember 9/11 but I grew up under the sentiment that it was a senseless, motiveless act almost like an act of God, and not a political one. I'm kicking myself rn for never thinking to seek out an explanation from the big dog himself.

>>585692
respect to someone ITT for actually reading it

>>585692
nobody read it cuz most of it is a boring reactionary screed

>>585689
>Big Lebowski takes place in '91 but was released in '98. Is it really necessary to place such a specific thing that was only 7 years old?
The early nineties vs the late nineties is pretty different.
>especially something that has zero to do with the rest of the film?
The movie is absolutely full of subtext about US imperialism, one of the main characters is a walking parody of it.

>>585692
The whole "they hate our freedumbs" bit is especially rich since it mostly came from similar religious zealots who actually do hate "our freedoms" and want to turn the US into a theocracy.

>>1595443
He's so mad that we don't take him seriously that he has to act out and LARP gore fantasies that everybody over 25 is already jaded towards

>>585643
Wtf it was up earlier today now it's private?

>>585699
>Wtf it was up earlier today now it's private?
NTA
I can see in through Youtube, but I'm not sure why. I'm not logged, using tor, and the "This is a private video. Please sign in to verify that you may see it." shows up, then goes away. With and without ublock.

Alternative front-ends through libredirect do not show the video , however.

>>585692
Wait, so he's telling burgers to use their freedoms to do what, exactly? Vote democrat? Protest peacefully? Was Bin Laden a lib all along? I get the feeling he's being facetious, but it's hard to tell with the schizo breakdown at the end about americans needing to repent and convert to islam.

>>585703
speaking of SA

hi leftypol have a great 9/11

>>585701
he's writing from a perspective of living under the saudi kingdom. he wasn't a lib, but a theocrat. however, he sincerely believed the american people were collectively responsible for imperialism, since he believed they had more power over their government than average. This was a misapprehension on his part, because he never actually lived under a "liberal democracy" long enough to realize that it's bullshit.

lmao he's literally retarded
https://nypost.com/2023/09/11/biden-claims-he-was-at-ground-zero-day-after-9-11-but-his-own-book-puts-him-in-dc/

>>585708
He's got dementia, big diffrerence.

>>585708
>>585709
But he's been a world renowned for liar for as long as he could move his mouth.

>>585701
>>585693
>>585692

Yous are missing the point that he's also targeting the general Muslim world with this letter. This section is also a theological argument - targeting civilians is forbidden according to Islamic law, and wars of aggression have more restrictions than defensive wars, and so it was necessary to him, as a supposed defender of "true" islam, to describe in clear terms how his actions are in line with islamic law, hence his discourse on how democracy blurs the line between civilian and combatant.

>>585705
thanks

amazing thread

>when even during drills people constantly fuck up and would be dead in real life fires. Are you genuinely implying that everyone in WTC 7 filed out perfectly and safely with no incidents or fuck ups? In a real life emergency?
Don't make me laugh.

Running on the assumption that this was during the active emergency. The building had already been evacuated as well as the surrounding area besides fire fighters and paramedics. It collapsed 5 hours after the twin towers did lol you think there were still office workers in there?

>>585656
Millions already died in imperialist wars previously. U.S. propaganda treated 9/11 like a huge event as an excuse to do more of the same. I’ll even steel man you and say that the U.S. sunk massive amounts of resources into a money pit but is that really so much different than Vietnam? Idk.

>>585709
imagine having to be his sign language person

>>585589
>revival of Operation Northwoods
honestly… yeah

>>585702
I know, right? It's not often you get to see the genesis of a meme. I had no idea that one came from SA either, but it makes sense (I'm guessing the version with the towers in the background was posted a bit further down that page but removed before it could be archived).

>>585680
>engineers are the most retarded and credulous class
ad hominum, no argument
>"Jet fuel can't melt steel beans" is like that "imagine a 4 meter wide spherical cow" physics logic
False equivalency, no argument
>The impossible happens all the time, the lottery is improbable
The Lottery is a game of chance. the melting point of steel and the highest temperature of burning octane are hard facts that can only be changed with labratory conditions that change factors like air pressure, oxygen levels etc,. by amounts that are far beyond ANY natural occurrence.
>imagine being so schizo you have synesthesia and can smell light
imagine being this disingenuous

>>585680
>"You're calling me a radlib
Nobody mentioned that in the post you're replying to, take medication
>seek therapy and read Marx
No u

>>585683
>The reason the jet fuel meme is retarded is that you don't have to MELT a metal to undermine its structural integrity and cause it to fail.
The latter is true, but is irrellevant
>The lowest temperature at which a plain carbon steel can begin to melt, its solidus, is 1,130 °C (2,070 °F). Steel never turns into a liquid below this temperature. Pure Iron ('Steel' with 0% Carbon) starts to melt at 1,492 °C (2,718 °F), and is completely liquid upon reaching 1,539 °C (2,802 °F). Steel with 2.1% Carbon by weight begins melting at 1,130 °C (2,070 °F), and is completely molten upon reaching 1,315 °C (2,399 °F).
>jet fuel burns at temperatures of 800-1,500°F
At 1,100°F steel's tensile strength is halved, but that's still not enough to explain the total collapse of the structure and assumes the jetfuel was burning at maximum potential. This is ignoring the explosions that followed or the MELTED STEEL witnessed all over the site.

>>585684
I still wish this show got made.

>>585670
sauce on the image, it looks familiar.

>>585504
>Jump
lmao

There's a classic leftypol webm with freebird playing in the background. Can't remember if it's 9/11 related but I really want to find it. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

>>585727
nasty fart

>>585493
>the most likely scenario is basically the official story
lol ok agent

>>585726
This?

>>585722
Bro they flew a whole ass 747 into the skyscraper. The impact alone did a huge amount of damage, followed by an explosion and subsequent jet fuel fires.
>At 1,100°F steel's tensile strength is halved, but that's still not enough to explain the total collapse of the structure and assumes the jetfuel was burning at maximum potential.
Compressive strength matters more here, but either way, the building was not engineered to hold itself up after the steel beams had been weakened by that much heat.
Why would you assume that the strength of the beams holding up huge skyscrapers would need to be halved before it would fail??? You pulled that out of your ass.
>This is ignoring the explosions that followed or the MELTED STEEL witnessed all over the site.
Combustion requires a mixture of fuel and oxygen in certain proportions. The entire quantity of jet fuel did not ignite immediately, and certain portions of it were in a poor mixture in different parts of the building, inhibiting combustion, but as the fire continued and especially as the building collapsed, the fumes became more exposed to open air (with oxygen) and more able to combust.
As for the melted steel, when a huge skyscraper collapses there is a tremendous amount of kinetic energy applied to the (already heated) steel beams, which through friction heats them even further. In fact, the propensity of friction to heat, deform, and melt metal is actually used in manufacturing, called friction welding.

All of you people making this kind of argument are fucking embarrassingly stupid and you should have the humility not to pull up numbers for things you don't understand at a basic level.

>>585731
Ah yes, famously Concorde flew into the Twin Towers.

>>585731
Holy fuck I need this RIGHT NOW

>>585732
The WTC was built with the capacity to withstand many times its own weight. It's doubtful all the factors you named, even combined, would have been able to crumble the buildings at near freefall speeds into their own footprint.

>>585529
>It's raining men video
Not funny, the original videos were union-made, 21 members of my union died and then our union helped reconstruct the new WTC One.
https://www.ibew.org/articles/15ElectricalWorker/EW1505/FreedomTower.0515.html

>>585735
>It's doubtful all the factors you named, even combined, would have been able to crumble the buildings at near freefall speeds into their own footprint.
"Freefall speeds" is literally just the speed things fall at.

>>585736
*towers, not videos

Oh how the commercial real estate market has fallen…

https://www.corbettreport.com/911-a-conspiracy-theory/ Everything you ever wanted to know about the 9/11 conspiracy theory in under 5 minutes.

>>585485

>>585730
based video, editing could be better. harry potter shit and music was annoying

>>585741
so does that pistol use a 1911 style trigger and sear or something
how would that work

The Lone Gunmen | X-Files | HD | Episode 1 | The Complete Series | Pilot


While the Lone Gunmen are thwarted in their attempt to steal a computer chip by Yves Adele Harlow, Byers receives news of his father's death, and the trio soon find themselves unraveling a government conspiracy concerning an attempt to fly a commercial aircraft into the World Trade Center, with increased arms sales for the United States as an intended result.

>>585730
Yes! tysm

>>585742
Music is fine, otherwise this.
I mean, half the problem is I only recognize around 5 of the events.

>>585692
Guess he didn't anticipate americans could be so easily brainwashed tho -
Do you even read?
>(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.
>(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.
You know that feeling of whenever a right-winger is so close to the truth but then they miss it entirely? That is the feeling I feel with you right now in that, the Jew was named, but you, and pretty much the entire thread fully missed it.
You know that Yellow Parenti video where he explains how despite no communication betwixt each other, all the capitalists somehow guide the economy with Mises' invisible hand through their own self-interest in order to control governments and such! The exact sane thing is happening but with the Jews of European descent in large part.
https://youtu.be/w0WBpcB-Cg0?si=8lx2ObKlzmORelfA
+book
>>585711
>democracy blurs the line between civilian and combatant.
Yep
>Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.
But there is also the silver lining in hitting the world trade centres. As mentioned above, he names the Jew. New York is the city with the largest Ashkenazi Jewish population, more Jews combined than both Tel' Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Like the phrase "kill two birds with one stone", the fact that Jews are heavily overrepresented in the finance sector yet also the government as a result of historical materialism meant that was the perfect target, as he could hit the highest possible percent of the ruling enemy class as possible.
>>585701
Wait, so he's telling burgers to use their freedoms to do what, exactly? Vote democrat?
He's saying Americans are controlled by both the Jews and the Bourgeoisie.
I fear you are the person in this thread most lacking reading skills.
>>1595593
>His conclusion is that America is not democratic or free.
Exactly(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST: BORDERLINE ID/POL/)

Marathoning Blowback podcast. Now up to the part where Osama is making an interference.

>>585747
Are you sure we should bring up jews? Because the moment we accept that Jews are organizing out of collective racial interests and that we can target them as an identity, then what stop us from extending the logic to Whites,Blacks,Arabs,etc? What is preventing another Asian American internment camp, so to speak? Because that is what identitarianism will inevitably lead us into

>>585747
Honestly, even if that conspiracy theory did make sense upon inspection, I'd still prefer DA JOOS or DA PAJEETS to control finance as opposed to DA WHOITS, in a multipolar sense.
But of course, misinterpreting the nepotism of small in-groups as being characteristic of their entire nations/ethnicities is laughable and directing blame towards current powerful groups in a system as opposed to the system itself is not only dumb, but counterproductive!
Every nepotistic group under capitalism deserves the same fiery end, whether it be Protestants, Hindis, Anglos, people who grew up in the same neighbourhood, Jews, vegans, Italians, random booj who met each other at Harvard, Buddhists, Chinese, people who go to the Pitt St. Irish bar from 6:00 to 8:00, whatever. The commonality is arbitrary.

REMINDER THAT DEMOGRAPHIC OVERREPRESENTATION DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEAN SHIT WHEN IT COMES TO EXERCISING POWER.

>>585749
dumb argument, comrade. National chauvinism isn't combated by denying that that neopotism often runs along identity lines in current society and just not taking about it. A better approach is to understand why it's bullshit and that nazbolfag here has brainworms regardless of whether racists in the world are organized.

>>585667
NTA, but holy shit you're a fucking retard, this is the exact thing the first posts at the beginning of the thread talked about, arrogant dumbasses like you who just spew paranoia without caring about evidence poisoning the well

>>585747
>>His conclusion is that America is not democratic or free.
>Exactly
Wait, so Americans deserved it because they elected the politicians, but also their democracy is a sham? Which is it?

>>585753
If Trump had really said that, how did he not loudly proclaim he predicted it until the day he died?

>>585755
Who knows, I like that part of the quote:
>A few news cycles later it's on to a new enemy and a new crisis.

Godbless Donald Trump. Realest president we've had since Kennedy maybe. Too bad he dropped the ball when he was president. He still had more truth bombs when he was pres, but he didn't push the position enough.

>>585753
ahhh, the pied piper days

>>585751
NTA but holy shit you're a fucking retard because you're exactly the kind of thoughtless brainlet that can't see glowies trying to muddy the water and make anyone questioning the validity of the official narrative appear "paranoid". I don't trust any official statements when everything from the flight data on the planes' path, to the rushed investigation itself and the selling of WTC steel to China screams cover-up to anyone that isn't a bootlicker. So e
>without caring about evidence
What fucking evidence you faggot? There's no evidence proving that everyone evacuated safely except the verbal statements of the FBI investigation that was questionable to begin with, especially since there is evidence of explosions and sabotage for WTC-7 that the FBI didn't touch on. So yeah, your statement is meaningless.

>>585737
Yes, if dropped from a height. This doesn't apply to buildings, since they're already ON the ground and the upper structure is sitting on the base and supports. A building cannot fall in 'free-fall' unless you cut the supports, otherwise it'll topple or slowly collapse as it breaks through supports (if poorly designed, which the WTC towers were not).

>>585732
>The impact alone did a huge amount of damage
Which is fucking retarded and impossible, because a 747 is a fucking big-ass aluminum tube with plastic and other shit inside. A fucking bird-strike will shatter the nose-cone of a 747, but somehow the fucker plowed through reinforced concrete, massive I-beams and impact-resistant glass almost all the way through the tower without assistance? I call bullshit.
>Compressive strength matters more here
No it doesn't, the structure was massive and had redundancy after redundancy built in by design when it was constructed, meant to withstand several plane impacts. Moreover, tensile strength is what would need to remain high to provide better support, and compressive strength dropping wouldn't allow the towers to just fall that quickly.
>Why would you assume that the strength of the beams holding up huge skyscrapers would need to be halved before it would fail
Because the supports are designed to not only hold up the tower but much more than that. The Bottom section's support system was basically the same as the section at the very top, so the areas the plane had impacted and melted have an in-built carrying capacity far higher than what was there that day. Even with the weakening of the steel it wouldn't be enough to collapse like that.
>The entire quantity of jet fuel did not ignite immediately
Have you seen the same video as me? Also you clearly don't understand how quickly a high-octane jet-fuel ignites and burns. The majority of the 'fires' that should have remained after the initial impact and burn-out would be regular building fires as the carpeting, furniture, fixtures etc. lit up. None of that burns hot enough to MELT steel, and there is no doubt that molten steel was there.
>certain portions of it were in a poor mixture in different parts of the building, inhibiting combustion, but as the fire continued and especially as the building collapsed, the fumes became more exposed to open air (with oxygen) and more able to combust.
Absolute mental gymnastics, that's not how a fuel-air explosion works.
> when a huge skyscraper collapses there is a tremendous amount of kinetic energy applied to the (already heated) steel beams, which through friction heats them even further.
Ah yes, kinetic energy that somehow has them melting and pouring down the sides before the collapse! And also that's some bull-shit because you don't get melted holes in steel from kinetic force, you get mangled steel. The Kinetic energy of a collapsing building is not enough to create the heat needed to even make them red-hot, let alone reach melting point.
>he propensity of friction to heat, deform, and melt metal is actually used in manufacturing, called friction welding.
Friction welding operates in a controlled environment and relies on constant, very-high speed, heavy friction of metal on metal. When a building falls, supports aren't grinding in a fashion like that, they're going to either snap if they're brittle enough, or bend. They won't be grinding into one another unless they're already destabilized heavily and lacking supports. But the areas of explosions and melting steel were seen dozens of floors below the 'plane impacts', where the fuel and fires could not have feasibly reached and melted and where the support structure should have been completely fine.

Finally all structural elements of WTC had fireproof coating, so even if the direct impact area burned, areas that were not hit, should not have burned significantly enough to damage the steel.

>All of you people making this kind of argument are fucking embarrassingly stupid
Says the guy literally just making excuses for blatant evidence pointing to controlled demolition.
>you should have the humility not to pull up numbers for things you don't understand at a basic level.
Unironically no u; imagine fucking bringing up friction welding in relation to a building collapse, that is the most ass-pulled attempt at an excuse I've seen yet, and I've seen people argue that the earth is flat because the horizon looks straight.

>>585760
>understand how quickly a high-octane jet-fuel ignites and burns.
Jet fuel, akin to Diesel №1 (kerosene) and Diesel №2 (pump Diesel) has a very low octane rating.
Jet-A is commonly found to have an octane rating of 15.
The Diesel fuels have a low octane rating because it is necessary that they combust readily when compressed, as compared to gasoline, which must resist ignition during compression until a certain temperature is reached (usually a high-voltage discharge)

>>585760
>Which is fucking retarded and impossible, because a 747 is a fucking big-ass aluminum tube with plastic and other shit inside. A fucking bird-strike will shatter the nose-cone of a 747, but somehow the fucker plowed through reinforced concrete, massive I-beams and impact-resistant glass almost all the way through the tower without assistance? I call bullshit.

If the 747 came out the other side fully intact then yeah I would call bullshit but it fucking disintegrated, all that energy went into the building, it's not that hard to understand

9/11 truthers are so fucking dumb. Even if you think Bush and the CIA did it then why would they not just actually use jet liners if they're going to go to the effort of hijacking them anyways

>>585761
>Jet fuel, akin to Diesel №1 (kerosene) and Diesel №2 (pump Diesel) has a very low octane rating.
Fair point, I was thinking of AVGAS. HOWEVER this doesn't change that jet fuel burns very quickly. Even the investigation concluded that the jet-fuel only burned for 10 minutes or so, with the rest being regular building fire ignited by the flames. The flames of a burning carpet or chair are certainly lower in temperature than a gas or kerosine fuel-based fire.

>>585762
>If the 747 came out the other side fully intact
It shouldn't have gone through that far, regardless of disintegration. It's like a car at high speeds ramming into a reinforced concrete barrier, it's going to smash itself to pieces and barely penetrate through, yet the plane goes through the fucking thing like a cruise missile gif rel.
Moreover the 747 that hit the Pentagon not only couldn't have been flying the flight path the investigation claimed it did (as several witnesses confirm) but the maneuver it supposedly did to get low enough to hit it would have torn the wings off because it was exceeding the aircrafts limits enormously. Even if you handwave the towers, the Pentagon's outer walls were built to withstand bomb impacts and are meters thick reinforced concrete, yet the hole in its side is comparable to a bunker-buster munition… from an aircraft that (again) should have crumpled into itself on impact.
>9/11 truthers are so fucking dumb
Ok glowboy
>why would they not just actually use jet liners
Read my post you strawmanning faggot. There is no way the jets could have caused that much damage without assistance. Moron.

9/11 trutherism is just another way of denying the historico-material conditions that made 9/11 possible, thus also denying Capitalism. This might be true for all conspiracies. Just making a note for myself

Like it is not conspiratorial at all; from Bitter Lake to Operation Cyclone, to argue that 9/11 was the blowback from an attempt at defending the Bourgeois class from the socialist challenge. It's all there, a matter of public record, clear as crystal. The material conditions were put in place by the necessity of capital accumulation.

Focusing on the "conspiracy" of 9/11 is missing the forest for the trees.

>>585764
youre right, but thats not mutually exclusive with CIA involvement. giving a shadowy agency the means & slack to set up vast networks of informants and operations with little accountability or chain of command, and encouraging them to make use of it in nefarious ways to maintain US hegemony, theres nothing out of line with the proper materialist understanding of the situation and then having a situation like, say, an insular group within the CIA that has various informant reports/suspicious activities regarding terroristic plots reported to them, and they can intentionally be a black hole where those reports go to die. meanwhile theyre continuing support for the pakistans ISI that they know is still training and funding al-qaeda and the taliban, and they know that some of those groups are present in the US and recieving lodging and funds from CIA/FBI informants. in this scenario all you need is a little malicious neglect and sooner or later the people behind Project For A New American Century are going to get their new pearl harbor

this is the scenario i think is most plausible, mostly bc it requires the least number of speculations built on speculations, and explains some of the stranger details, like why various reports of suspicious plans in the hijackers networks just disappeared, why the CIA was completely fine with their former assets and financial fronts being used by islamist terrorists even after the first world trade center bombing and the east africa bombings, why the hijackers were allowed to move freely and take flight classes despite their associations being known to the CIA & FBI, and why the hijackers were able to be identified so quickly after 9/11 with ridiculous stories like "finding their passports at the scene"

i dont really care too much about the particular details one way or the other so long as people understand it was a consequence of US imperialism using intelligence networks and fostering reactionary islam to be its bludgeon against communism. as long as that baseline is established, doesnt really make a difference to me whether someone believes the attack itself was just US incompetence or if they think there was controlled demolition (but i will say that perfect credulity towards the official story that disregards suspicions out of hand is very annoying, and schizoid shit like saying the planes were holograms is ridiculous schizoid shit)

>>585605
>The thing I dont understand about the building 7 theories is like… why? why would they place explosives in the building to destroy it? I mean both of the towers had collapsed, thousands had died. What is the point of adding another building to this huge demolition conspiracy? It just makes no sense if you think about it.

building 7 had CIA and department of defense offices in it, make of that what you will

>>585589
excellent posts anon, as i said in my above post i am not dismissive of the idea of more direct planning & involvement or the controlled demolition theory, but i dont know anything about engineering or architecture or physics so cant in good faith act like my layman research into these aspects of it would be worth anything

>>585764
It's funny because trutherism is 2 levels of abstraction removed from the important point. What matters is that it's a product of US imperialism that was recuperated into further public support for imperialism. Whether or not the US directly orchestrated it or just let it happen is not important. Whether they flew planes into buildings or did a controlled demolition is even less important (and obvious bullshit) and is clearly the fixation of schizos who would rather spend hours poring over grainy footage than think for one second about geopolitics.

>>585579
>Except that makes no fucking sense at all. The Saudis were not enemies with the USA and were in fact its closest allies in the Middle East after Israel.

You can be from a country that supports the US and commit terrorism against the US it's not a contradiction.

>>585765
>>585765
>youre right, but thats not mutually exclusive with CIA involvement.

Speaking of, did anyone mention yet they just admitted that the hijackers were CIA recruits?

https://www.newagebd.net/article/201110/911-hijackers-were-cia-recruits
https://jacobin.com/2023/05/cia-fbi-911-hijackers-cover-up-bush-media

>>585769
funny, just a few years ago i was giving some people my mild take that amounted to basically this and they acted like i was a schizo for it

>>585768
>You can be from a country that supports the US and commit terrorism against the US it's not a contradiction.
Read the reply-chain, dumbass.

>>585767
>Whether or not the US directly orchestrated it or just let it happen is not important
Uh yes, it fucking is, because the fact that the US government did one of the biggest acts of terror against their own people, is something that can potentially shake the population to their core, a lot of known CIA crimes are old enough that there's a dissonance - it happened long ago, so it was just a bad part of the past. 9/11 is fairly fresh and could potential spark revolt should the truth be known.
>Whether they flew planes into buildings or did a controlled demolition is even less important
It is very important, and anyone that says otherwise is literally playing into the COINTEL PRO handbook.
>is clearly the fixation of schizos who would rather spend hours poring over grainy footage than think for one second about geopolitics.
Strawman fallacy and false dichotomy, one can analyze the details of the facts and have a good understanding of the bigger geopolitical picture, in fact that is part of the main motive for the movement - people apalled at the wars that followed and noticing that the cassus belli was manufactured.

>>585764
>9/11 trutherism is just another way of denying the historico-material conditions
Ok glowie, just because you parrot common phrases and vague narratives people on leftypol use and share, doesn't make your blatantly fallacious argument any more correct, your consensus cracking denialism is reminiscent of radlibs that claim to be leftist, but immediately point fingers at communists and say that "they're going too far with their conclusions"

>>585727
Kek reminds me of pr0n pic rel (spoilers are there for a reason)