First they came for the cows, and I did not speak out - because I was not a cow
Then they came for the pitbulls, and I did not speak out - because I was not a pitbull
Then they came for the American Bully XLs, and I did not speak out - because I was not an American Bully XL
Then they came for the cats, and I did not speak out - because I was not a cat
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me
Previous thread: >>1549803
Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66978108Tories truly understand the commoners.
>>585794Dying party, ringing the barrel of it's dregs, nobody is looking past what job they can land after they are kicked out.
Watch The Thick of It if you want to understand this phenomena better.
>>585797This tbh. Tories are like our "muh order, tradition and nationalism" parties we have on the continent that constantly virtue-signal about the left killing the west and great replacement yet they somehow manage to increase brown immigration tenfold and all their female members are liberal feminists identical to any labour party feminists anyway.
They're like Meloni on steroid and they somewhat have ruled for fucking decades and still manage to be reelected from time to times after the chaos they cause.
European right-wingers really makes you think the jewish kabbal controling politic to enact a kalergi plan is real because i just cannot see any other rationalisation of their politics, it's pure nonsense.
Do only boomers that want their superpension while wanting to show a lesson to these lazy younglins vote for them or what?
>>585797>Why do people vote Tory anyway? Vested interests. Landlords, home owners, NIMBYs etc.
>They’ve been running the government for 10 years and they fucked it all up.Labour would be just as retarded tbh. The issues lie deeper than political parties, and Labour isn't exactly a force for radical institutional change. People recognise this and don't bother to turn up to vote the tories out.
>>585800i'm sorry but
>that physiognomyI don't think people that look this fucked up should be allowed in public or to reproduce, let alone to rule over other people. They should be typing on machines or something in their little caves.
>>585797I've been asking myself that question since about 2016, and I still don't really have an answer. I think we just don't expect better anymore, and would prefer to drag each other down, like a nation of crabs in a giant bucket.
Also they've kind of been running the government for 13 years if you include the coalition government.
>>585790Watching this play out from across the pond but man what a shitshow. Now Tories are selling the property they acquired along the ROW. Real scorched earth tactics. Ive heard from some folks that they arent going to win the next election regardless and are just looting while they can.
Its very reminiscent of the shit our conservatives in leafland get up to, just delay and cancel all progress in the name of austerity, but this is on a whole different level with the scale of it. Britain will be feeling the effects of this for a long time no doubt
Like I get that there were flaws with the project but cancelling it wasnt the solution and surely whatever picrel is sucks in comparison
Backwards Country, Tories symbolize this Backwardness and Promote it, especially seen with this recent conference, bullshit patriotism, bullshit nationalism.
Kwame Ture said "Capitalism doesn't lie a little bit of the time, it lies all the time", You see how they're trying to portray currently milquetoast and regressive labour as progressive social democrats, bullshit.
The conservatives are really trying to or have successfully snuffed any progress and change, or rather superstructural progress are already snuffed in Capitalism, conservative rhetoric simply displaying this.
Entire country needs to change, advance and progress, the current direction seems regressive, reactionary and backwards… A dwindling country, an already dwindled empire is susceptible to fascism with the transformation of the economic base Negatively e.g. current crises like inflation, cost of living or a general economic depression, it only seems cultural and political attitudes as well as material reality together will be continuing on a backwards trend, e.g. continuation and support of the Monarchy, their coffers filling up.
>>585836This guys revolution didnt even succeed He invented platormism which was accused of Bolshevism by other anarchists due to its vanguardism…
What a terrible guy to pick LMAO.
>>585846We already have a constitutional monarchy
Parliament controls the country
>>585843You cant *make* animals free
And pets would be seen more as parasites/symbiotes than slaves (like lumpen proles for example). Animals used for food would be placed into the category of slavery.
>>585856Are we still going on on these traitor shit. Calm down whiteys 99% of those migrants coming aren't and will never be permanent residents. There's just simply no low to medium skilled manpower left in Europe so this is a temporary stopgap solution.
This isn't just me talking. There is a severe manpower shortage across the West generally that even the Catholic church is forced to import clergy from BBCfrica due to a general priest shortage in the US
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-catholic-clergy-shortage-eased-by-recruits-from-africa >>585860>99% of those migrants coming aren't and will never be permanent residentsIncorrect, they will stay.
>even the Catholic church is forced to import clergy from BBCfricaThe only goal of the catholic church and christianity in general is to rape underage boys, oppress gays/trans and turn every country into brazil. Massive nonwhite/non-eastasian immigration is capital to achieve at least 2 of these things. All religious right-wingers are the same and have the same agenda they do not hide it you know.
Also this will end up really bad as soon as the western economies crashes, it's gonna be a thermonuclear race war over here every races fucking hates each others.
>>585864>since china hates immigration for some reasonLooking at the west right now (and how it's gonna evolve in the future), you can't blame them for not wanting immigration.
No one besides christians and porkies like immigration anyway.
>>585855>most of wales is too remote for train journeys and you need cars tod drive up the dirt tracks "Dirt tracks"? lol Wales isn't the Congo or Siberia
South Wales has plenty of railways and dual carriageways.
He's just a bourgeois cunt who wants to take away cars from the working class
>>585874No.
Britain is as much of a two-party state as USA, and by the time the election rolls around every "radical" and "dissident" party chooses a side. Red or blue.
I remember the BNP dissolving and its members joining the tories (despite the tories increasing immigration by mediating the blairist revolution), and i'm already seeing now the "socialists" in britain idly approve with strategic ambivalence the appointing of starmer as the new PM.
Both parties are held in negation to eachother and so offer no positive projects.
In fact, the rare case of forwarding smoking regulations by sunak is the only recent example i can think of, of enacting a positive vision - which was oddly met by everyone with a quasi-libertarian "my body, my choice" rhetoric.
Its not revolutionary to be optimistic.
>>585876>he thinks political action begins and ends in parlimentlol. faggot. gtfo.
>>585867top kek.
>>585877All political action DOES end in parliamentary nonsense due to partisanship in the culture. It shouldnt, but it does, cos if you slag off labour youre a tory and if you criticise the tories then you are a labourite.
>oh but my special group with 50 people in it know the truth and dont capitualte to voting.Ok. Good for you.
>>585879>posts anarkiddy video of "revolutionary" larpMaybe youre making my point for me
Do we need more martyrs?
>>5858851) they have literally destroyed arms factories so they cannot operate
2) they all get off lmao
https://web.archive.org/web/20231105081600/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/04/plans-to-redefine-extremism-would-include-undermining-uk-values?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
<Revealed: plan to brand anyone ‘undermining’ UK as extremist>Under the proposed definition in the documents, extremism would be the promotion of any ideology which aims to “overturn or undermine the UK’s democracy, its institutions and values; or threaten the rights of individuals or create a permissive environment for radicalisation, hate crime and terrorism”.I want to see a new terror the likes of which would put Robespierre to shame, carried out against the bourgeoisie of this nation and their pathetic little stooges.
If this bill passes I'd be glad to call myself an extremist.
>>585903>>585904The problem with the left is that it has bored hired killers like us among its ranks, but also limp wristed libs who think meat is murder
Marxists have to separate from the left and become their own independent political formation to avoid idealism or revision. This is what scientific socialism is all about - cutting out the weeds from our own ranks. Only the swoletariat have the might to carry the world on its shoulders.
>>585914People will be better off with a plant based diet
economy too
>>585912Fine whatever, full veganism is the future
>>585913The critique of the gotha program is marx's "fuck you" to the socialists of his day. "Anti-duhring" is engels'. Lenin fought the mensheviks. Stalin fought the reformers. And so on.
A more clear division in the left would be nice; at least then it would separate the wheat from the chaff.
>>585919Veganism is idealism
It shouldnt take precedence in marxist circles
Thats my basic point
>>585922Yep.
Stalin's work "anarchism or socialism" is the most succinct criticism of them. Marx even describes the market in its dynamical terms as an "anarchy" which must be crushed by the dictatorship of the proletariat. This is the negation of the negation, or socialism itself.
>>585925I agree that factory farming is terrible
But vegan-ism is false consciousness
>>585926Nah
The left will do as it does, but i have no part in it
>>585927I fail to see how it's false consciousness.
>>585928Well that's fine, but I don't see the point in bitching about anarchists who are actually doing stuff like food not bombs while you sit in your mind palace of perfect M-L correctness and do nothing but shit on others
>>585926It's just a waste of time and energy. The quotes aren't about Marxism or socialism per se, but they apply the same way.
The enemy you let into your camp are much more dangerous than the enemy in their own camp.
>>585929Idgaf about owen jones or novara media or joe politics or adam curtis or corbyn or labour or the trotskyist "socialist alternative".
Doesnt fill me with any real passion to think of what could be done between these main players of the british left.
What are anarchists doing? Spraypainting walls and setting fires in bins? Its boring to me.
And im not looking for perfection, just a radical edge. A well-educated party.
Veganism is false consciousness because its fundamentalist and so uncritical. It begins with its ends so to speak. Thats why vegans will never embrace self criticism.
>>585933Revolutionary action requires revolutionary theory
I want to walk before i can run
Political activism for its own sake gets you jan. 6, where the angry plebs storm the illusory mantle of power and get set up in a pig pen for feds to filter them out from their own
Blowing up a police station doesnt get you anywhere except behind bars
>>585935Its not one or the other
But there is still an order of operations
Every war has its strategy
If the day was here when it was possible to take powers i would happily join the street soldiers and be a martyr, but that day is not here, and cannot be summoned by the flippancy of kids looking for a fight.
>>585936So it's everyone else's fault why there's no based and correct ML party that's even come close to winning one council seat?
>>585937The day of revolution will never come unless people do the work to build class consciousness and dual power.
>>585938I agree
Thats why we need a true ML party
And we also need guns, which is harder
>>585939If we need a true ML party before you can do any work then make one.
>>585940Labour isn't even social democratic now, they're centre right, and it's still their fault why socialists can't gain ground?
>>585941>Labour isn't even social democratic now, they're centre right, Exactly
>and it's still their fault why socialists can't gain ground?It's the fault of people like Corbyn and the people who supported that bullshit strategy.
>>585941>>585942 me
To put it more clearly the second you let people into your socialist party who aren't socialists you're on the path to destruction. If you support a non-socialist party you are doing nothing, just wasting time and energy.
>>585941I'll make a revolutionary party when im ready
Im not ready yet
>>585946IDK probably join whatever socialist/anarchist party in my area seems the coolest and most active.
>>585945Well ok, fair enough, good luck then, the theory better be impeccable though to make it better than all the other parties already out there.
>>585953>Tories crushed in next GEYou could have stopped there.
By the end of another 5 years of New Labourism we will essentially have fascism. The threat of rightist authoritarianism doesn't come from Braverman - or even really the Tories - but rather the Labour Party.
>>585963>Do you guys know if there are any Israel-Gaza protests coming up around Bristol? I haven't done anything but post about it thus far, and it's starting to bother meYes. They have been pretty regular, ignore the retard below you. The only bad thing is that Bristol PSC advertise everything mostly through facebook.
Hope to see you there anon. :)
>>585965where did you find this anon? non-social media source?
I'm sick of having to rely on people maybe texting me as the only way to know about these things.
>>585967>>Do you guys know if there are any Israel-Gaza protests coming up around Bristol? I haven't done anything but post about it thus far, and it's starting to bother me>Yes. They have been pretty regular, ignore the retard below you. The only bad thing is that Bristol PSC advertise everything mostly through facebook. >Hope to see you there anon. :)Ignore retard below…
Seriously? The biggest national demo is in London, hence the bussing which is correct, other local demonstrations are happening elsewhere too which is correct to? there's no contradiction, retard.
>>585975>I've told you two or three times they don't. Are you trolling me or genuinely mentally handicapped?I was recommending first they browser search, PSC website and local branch, but since you just said this:
>Anon. they have only social media. that is exactly what i just told you.I recommended the social media solution with website links.
>>585987Probably
But be aware that the more he gets beat up the more he grows in his faith.
>>585996>“The barrister refused to share his views on the Troubles or Irish reunification while representing Clegg, but he would reportedly take weekly trips to the Belfast garrison to play football with the troops.”
>“The Democratic Unionist MP Ian Paisley Jr, who worked closely with Starmer and the NIPB, praised his work. The QC, he said,gave us the tools and the arguments and the defence lines to allow us to say that the water cannon are necessary or plastic bullets are allowed. They are still permissible today, as shown in the riots of April 2021.”
>“Despite Starmer’s obstinacy, he was blindsided on 16 October 2012 when the then home secretary, Theresa May, made a sudden intervention in the Commons. ‘After careful consideration of all of the relevant material,’ she said, ‘I have concluded that Mr McKinnon’s extradition would give rise to such a high risk of him ending his life that a decision to extradite would be incompatible with Mr McKinnon’s human rights. I have therefore withdrawn the extradition order against Mr McKinnon.’ A CPS source told me that Starmer reacted to this development with fury, and immediately boarded a plane to Washington to meet with Holder’s deputies. He assured them that the CPS had no role in the Home Office decision, and pleaded that this episode should not jeopardize their future relationship. ”
>“There is little explanation for what has been described as the ‘irregular handling’ of the Assange case, other than the imperative to please Holder by facilitating the journalist’s extradition to the US via Sweden. Despite Starmer’s avowed commitment to greater CPS transparency, a number of sensitive files on the Assange case have either been destroyed or withheld from public view since he left office. Those that were released, thanks to tenacious Freedom of Information requests and court battles undertaken by the investigative journalist Stefania Maurizi, were heavily redacted, with crucial details blotted out.”
>“We know that he personally intervened in other cases which attracted significant public interest. Starmer met Holder in Washington just days after Assange’s extradition appeal was quashed, and had a private meeting with the MI5 director general, Sir Jonathan Evans, the same week the CPS rejected crucial FOI requests relating to the case. >>586002What are you talking about? LSE is a very good university. This is silly.
Don't study in London for a whole lot of reasons, but LSE is a very good school it's beyond retarded to pretend it's the 'british uchicago' or whatever.
i have to confront the fact that i've wasted my political life.
i've never cared for dealing with people, so i've never followed the correct political path: to grab a tendency and run with it as a function of my social life, winding up anywhere from a trendy theilbux socialist on twitter to a right-wing blairite on the shortlist for grimsby after graduating from the NUS, to helping some perfectly nice no-hopers in their 5 member party try to take a seat on the council, or just showing up to every march going and sticking up posters for some yet-smaller org. the appeal here isn't the career advancement - it's that each of these things would've created for me a social life. an identity.
no, idiot that i am i've taken ideas seriously, and what has it taught me? what have i learned from looking at everything from every angle i can think of? only that this was very, very stupid. only that i would've had a much more fulfilling life if i'd decided at 16 i was an anarchist because i want things to be better but don't like being told what to do, and then i bounced around from pub to pub taking that line with other people. christ, if i'd hopped on fbi.gov and joined the furry communist fbi.gov i'd have got more good out of it.
i don't even get a tendency, i can't even be one of the people who sit at home playing that heart's of iron mod going oohh, look, my guy is winning in Bolivia. i don't have a guy. i've got a mental popular front of whatever is better than the status quo because i'm not a person, i wasted all the time i should've spent with other people on ideas, and ideas can always be taken seriously on their own terms. If I can call myself a communist confidently, it's only because i'm confident the term signals little and means nothing.
but you can't go back. that's the one thing an idea can't do - fuck off. it's impossible to sit back and relax because someone, somewhere will always be saying something wrong. god forbid, someone might even seem like they'd be interested in one of the horrible little facts or random notions picked up 6 years ago in the depths of figuring out whether it was more intellectually interesting to justify Corbyn in neoliberal, keynesian, socialist or communist terms. it doesn't matter now, of course. i can tell you why we're fucked in the same manner, but you know who can do that while also making tolerable company? oh, that's right, anyone. even the pseuds make better pseuds!
there's scarcely a political stereotype i don't envy. not because of what they know, but because of what they don't know. i don't know everything, but i know enough to know when to quit. shame it was about a decade ago.
Anyone seen this:
https://nitter.privacydev.net/BrownNaila/status/1728734086154375227<Police arrested members of @CPGBML yesterday for having an anti-Zionist pamphlet on the stall. They remain detained. Their homes were raided around 3am, laptops, phones, pamphlet & books were takenThey are out again now under some conditions such as: "Not to sell or hand out any literature during any rally or procession". (I suppose
films don't count under that…)
>>586030The first is so old it's antiquated and the last two are war acts.
These are people who have been imprisoned during peace-time, under tolerance laws. Completely different things.
>>586029Not recently.
There is currently an anarchist in UK prison for administrating an anarchist blog.
>>586031My point was that this kind of thing isn't unprecedented and the government definitely has the power to do it.
>under tolerance lawsImpossible. Those laws only target right-wingers.
>>586032Do you have a link to a news article about that?
>>586032>There is currently an anarchist in UK prison for administrating an anarchist blog.I don't even need to guess that the charges include acess to unauthorized materials such as bomb making instructions.
>>586033You can't claim continuity with that precedent.
>Impossible. Those laws only target right-wingers. Please tell me you're being ironic.
>>586034>You can't claim continuity with that precedentThere is continuity though. Any time the political establishment feels threatened it implements these regulations on personal freedoms. Always under the justification of protecting societal cohesion or national security.
>Please tell me you're being ironic.I am lol. I have been saying ITT for years that such laws will inevitably be used against communists but nobody ever listened ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>586035>There is continuity though. Any time the political establishment feels threatened it implements these regulations on personal freedoms. Always under the justification of protecting societal cohesion or national security. Again those previously cited were made under explicit self-defence acts.
This new example is indicative of, and not the result of, a movement in history towards a new political order, unlike those of 1914 and 17.
>>586036A non-war related example I forgot to mention was the Public Order Act 1936. Used against the BUF most famously but also employed during the miner's strike against picketers.
>This new example is indicative of, and not the result of, a movement in history towards a new political order, unlike those of 1914 and 17.In my opinion this is just the old political order desperately trying to maintain the status quo and keep the peace.
>>586035>I have been saying ITT for years that such laws will inevitably be used against communistsThe problem with such a critique is that it shoots too low and winds up imagining that communists should (indeed, could!) oppose them on the ground that they could be used against the left, rather than grasping that the state will do what it will to the left without regard for the law. It winds up conceding a liberal-legalist framework which is pretty ill fitted to the facts on the ground.
The contortions now applied to anti-discrimination legislation in an attempt to make anti-Zionism into antisemitism are just part of a wider phenomenon of those in power capturing liberal-ish institutions and bending them to their will. See also, for example, the Equalities and Human Rights Commission getting stuffed with racists and transphobes. It runs contrary to the legal and nominal intent of the institution, but power doesn't really care about the law. Power is a law unto itself.
>>586038I'll respond to this tomorrow evening anon, going to sleep now.
>>586039Thanks for the link black flag.
>>586047>stumble across a typical ‘anti-woke’That was your first mistake.
I might honestly have more respect for far-righters than "anti-wokes" because at least the former doesnt want pure endless stagnation from existence. "anti-wokeism" is a puddle of stagnant water by definition.
>>586042>I was joking but forgot to include a joke. I should've said "wouldn't get that with the CPGB-ML" or something.It's okay anon I laughed anyway just to make you feel better. :)
>>586043>Thanks for the link black flag.NP. I highly recommend people sending a letter with the emailaprisoner system.
As well as it being important to show solidarity to prisoners it is also important to show the state that we do not forget our prisoners and prisoners of increasing political repressions, also:
UK: Call For An International Anti-Repression Gathering. March 29th-31st, 2024 - BrightonIn the face of escalated attacks against workers, young people, migrants and the living conditions of prisoners, we call for an encounter to learn how we can combine our struggle and understand how to advance our fight for a world without police, prisons and borders.
In the UK as elsewhere, murderous police kill with impunity whilst politicians make way for a vast prison building program that will affect the poorest and most marginalised parts of society. Anarchists, activists and environmentalists are targetted as “extremists” and “terrorists” with special police teams designed to infiltrate and dismantle their campaigns and organisations.
Our communities are increasingly turned into open prisons, “a prison society”, through new technologies of social control. It’s time to stop wringing our hands and instead get organised. What do we have in common and can we build a common platform of action and discussion that helps us build a better world.
The event will take place over a weekend of Friday March 29th to Sunday 31st, 2024. If you wish to participate contact ABC Brighton at
[email protected]—
Subjects to be covered include:
Operation Adream
Kill The Bill (Bristol) cases
Police Brutality
Deaths in Custody
Migration Detention
Work of IWOC
Participating Group Presentations
Text / Recordings from Prisoners
We also hope to have a set-up to allow virtual contributions too.
>>586047Which one lmao
>>586055>BRIITTISH TO TOE BE MIIORRIITYBased if true
T. Brit
>>586038>The problem with such a critique is that it shoots too low and winds up imagining that communists should (indeed, could!) oppose them on the ground that they could be used against the left, rather than grasping that the state will do what it will to the left without regard for the law.Basic political rights such as freedom of speech are something that are very real and as radicals we should always support unequivocally, or risk losing them. For instance this kind of thing simply wouldn't happen in America because the yanks actually care about these political rights and have a strong distrust of national government. We could learn a lot from them.
>It winds up conceding a liberal-legalist framework which is pretty ill fitted to the facts on the ground.What facts are these?
>The contortions now applied to anti-discrimination legislation in an attempt to make anti-Zionism into antisemitism are just part of a wider phenomenon of those in power capturing liberal-ish institutions and bending them to their will.These laws were created by establishment Blairites, Tories, MI5 and a certain sect of moronic leftists. To these people a communist and a fascist are both seen as equally bad.
There are no contortions. The legislation is working exactly as intended, by restricting political opposition and controlling the acceptable narrative around certain sensitive topics.
>See also, for example, the Equalities and Human Rights Commission getting stuffed with racists and transphobesI highly doubt this is the case.
>>586059In what sense is the right to freedom of speech real? Because the law says it's real, or because it's practical to excercise? If the former, Britain has never really had free speech codified in law - this isn't the United States. If the latter, it only ever exists so long as the speech isn't particularly threatening or offensive to those in power. The decision on who gets to say what, when, and to whom is outsourced to private media channels and the state will not enforce your right to air time in the name of making your free expression meaningful. The American government tinkers at the edges less not because it is more free, but because it is more powerful and more dispersed.
>What facts are these? That powerful institutions will always do as they will with fairly token regard for the law. This is true at every level from the cop beating up a protestor on the street to wars of aggression. That occasionally someone gets in trouble can't cover up for all the cases where someone doesn't. Law is a fig-leaf, a guideline for bureaucrats, and a way of settling contractual pissing fights with lawyer-judo, nothing more. In a battle between what has to be done and what's strictly legal, necessity will win every time.
It doesn't take legislation to control the narrative around sensitive topics: That's what the press are for. A lot of the time the press are actively covering the arses of those who're acting contrary to their legal obligations. A communist and a fascist are not seen as equally bad - A communist is usually a clown, occasionally a dangerous clown. A dangerous clown occasionally happens to be a fascist, but more often a fascist is simply "voicing legitimate concerns that we've got to take seriously", and ever so often they're an actual cabinet minister…
>I highly doubt this is the case.And yet they're the weird incel in the corner at all the United Nations human-rights parties:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck7p88zx2z2o >>586060>Daily I think about committing a crime simply to go to prison to take away the burden of having to live. I've read cases of prisoners who essentially do the same because they cannot cope with life outside, and I feel I've reached that point.Don't do it anon prisons in the UK are worse than they have been at any point, overcroweded, understaffed, record high suicides and so on.
You will be on 22-24 hour locked in a cell all days, more often than not not having the staff to unlock and etc etc. Work and Education is not happening at all in prisons also.
Not worth it. Go somewhere else to get nicked is your best bet.
>>586067The state-sponsored project fear propaganda predicted that by now the country would look like the wasteland from Mad Max. It doesn't.
Since 2016 it has become clear that Europe is a sinking ship. Why would we want to tie ourselves to such a disaster?
>>586070>Where does it say that?Do you not remember the claims that the UK would run out of food, fuel and drinking water immediately after Brexit?
>Did UK ended up worse off after Brexit?We are currently better off than we would be if we had remained inside the EU. The Netherlands just voted for a party which wants a Nexit referendum, that tells you all you need to know.
>>586071>Do you not remember the claims that the UK would run out of food, fuel and drinking water immediately after Brexit? They certainly weren't in that leaflet m8. Obviously having it distributed to every house was state sponsored propaganda (and pretty fucking clumsy at that - a direct ctrl+c ctrl+v of what they did in 1975 but with more boring graphic design), but the actual propaganda in it is fairly measured and true: leaving the EU did cause economic uncertainty, it did risk (let's not have a pissing contest about whether it
caused, but it certainly
risked) higher food prices, more annoying movement between the EU and the UK, and the value of the pound. (not that a high pound is an unalloyed good)
what nobody wants to accept is that the brexit referendum was a contest of cunts versus cunts. you're supposed to laugh that the thing that wasn't supposed to happen happened, that the 2017 election resulted, and then forget that ultimately no good came of it because the levers of institutional and state power consistently remained in the hands of the bourgeoisie.
>>586076 (me)
Fwiw I think Lexit is probably right, EU is shit but voting for Brexit in 2016 was not a good idea. Especially with hindsight.
>>586078British socialists can neither support nor oppose anything because they are an impotent force. Ideas floating around in the aether change nothing. British socialists could support an asteroid wiping out humanity or reincarnating Hitler to destroy Europe again and it'd have no effect! EU membership or non-membership is effectively irrelevant (do
you feel any better off? do
you see this country as less doomed than in 2015?) and the referendum itself was tedious and unengaging. Both sides offered a different flavour of deference to international capital. "Would you rather be London, or Singapore?"
I'd rather be dead. >>586079It's not Brexit's fault that food prices shot up it's the fact that Europe and Britain together sanctioned Russian and Belarusian fertilizers and threw on a million carbon taxes thereby jacking up the cost of production for farmers drastically but you won't ever expect some retarded The Guardian reader pointing this out.
As a Lexiter I actually looked at British-EU trade stats before taking a position on the issue and do you know what Britain's largest export to the EU was? FUCKING FINANCIAL SERVICES. So even if you believe Britain was better off in the EU (an impossible case to make if you look at the trade stats) the EU was WORSE OFF with Britain in it.
>>586086You haven’t explained how leaving it has been better off for the UK. Even you admit that uk is under the effect of European actions.
I don’t even disagree that leaving the EU could benefit UK in the long term, but it is delusional to say that there are no downside on the short term.
>>586090>EU membership, Scottish independence, there are no coherent marxist positions either way Yeah there are
Oppose
Oppose
>>586088>Alistair darling is dead lmaoBased.
Shame about Shane Macgowan though.
>>586107The worst part is people will try to explain away or justify what happened just so they can cry about things getting worse.
At some point of time, you have to acknowledge the working class's complicity in fucking themselves over.
>>586108Good podcast on the topic of self-exploitation:
https://bungacast.com/2022/03/08/246-why-isnt-there-revolution-ft-vivek-chibber/I hate this shit hole so much. I can't explain how much I despise this country. Without qualifications you are simply a slave. I've worked in care, I've worked in retail, I've worked in kitchens for a hotel chain and a small business. You will never have weekends off, you will be expected to take on overtime, you must wake up at ungodly hours, you will never have the free time to pursue your hobbies, your CV will be binned for jobs with any degree of comfort, you must work at least 60 hours a week to remain employed, you will never earn more than 17k a year.
Generations before you owned homes working such jobs? Not you.
Retirement age bumped up to 70? I'll work 'till I die.
Renting a room? 2 references required, a deposit and two payments upfront (your rent will cover the landlord's mortgage)
The absolute irony is that I've complained about this before to a family member who makes 10k above the national average and been told to shut up. By someone who once claimed to be a socialist. That was until they bought their first home.
This nation rests like a glacier on a sea of what is effectively serf labour.
>>586116 (me)
>>586115Everything else is true though, I'd move right out of this country if I could. Not really anywhere to go though. I've relatives in Central Europe, but their country is even worse than Britain in some regards. Maybe the Republic of Ireland? How's their economy doing these days?
>>586118>Britain really does have a horrific anti-social culturecorrect, pic rel
>do you all really hate your grandparents so much that the people who take care of them have to be burned out slaves?Some people do, obviously, but a big part of it is that care jobs just don't pay enough for people to want to do them. It's individualism. In previous decades, you'd move out at 18, get married, and your parents would probably die before they got altzheimers so you didn't really need to worry about them all that much. If they didn't, all their care would be managed by the state.
<Who's going to actually look after them? Not me! I have a job and kids and stuff. I'll let someone else do it.That kind of mentality ensured that care jobs were a bottom-of-the-barrel type deal, 0 qualifications required, fit only for poor people and immigrants. Quick side note: One of my teachers at school many years ago (maybe around 2010), a hippy-type guy with white man dreads, once told us that immigration is good because "they do all the jobs we don't want to do".
Of course, now we have a rapidly-ageing population and the demand for elderly care has skyrocketed, just in time for Brexit and the crackdown on immigration. I realised the other day that one possible (horrible) way to relieve the burden on the government would be to allow euthanasia for elderly people, so I expect the government will start having conversations about that soon enough. One thing's for sure, though: I really hope I die before I become elderly, because I know what's coming, and it won't be fun.
>>586120>Assisted suicide for mental illness and povertyreal shit? Jesus Christ, that's bleak
>You may as well just hand out mixed fentanyl and Xanax bags to whoever wants them.That would go down a treat in most trendy student towns tbf.
What does it mean if there aren't enough people despite immigration being high? Because I don't think we're going to see another population explosion anytime soon.
>>586120>You may as well just hand out mixed fentanyl and Xanax bags to whoever wants them.I fucking wish. UK has always tightly controlled pharma opiates and street heroin will not get you high these days let alone kill you. Not even easy and plentiful diazapam on these islands anymore.. Worthless place I hate it.
>>586124Alreadyu has been in free fall since 2008 but yes, probably just further and further stagnation with attempts to use nationalism and heavy internal policing to prop it up.
Fuck i need to leafe this place. >>586142What does welsh maoism look like i wonder?
I am anglo keynesian btw 😈🇬🇧
>>586151Transport in this country is fucking horrible
I dont know why they have bus timetables if theyre NEVER on time. I dont know what the hold up could be.
>>586158Aye, I care little for the BBC, but fucking hell, every time I see that stupid ass hashtag, it's fucking rightoids complaining about "wokeness" or bitching that the BBC is leftist, kinda makes me want it to still be around just to spite them lmao
I will say this though, I'm willing to bet that the people who actually run the DefundTheBBC campaign don't actually want it to happen because if they do succeed, they won't be getting any more money from rightoids lmao
>>586161As always, the reactionary critique is a paranoid fantasy which conceals within it the truth.
The obsession with racial equality in media representation is a transplant of the US liberal political circuit where race relations have deteriorated due to the nation's legacy on the issue, such that race itself has become fetishized as a metric for progress.
The fixation on race is just a symptom of the ideological concealment of wider class issues that are faced by those living in poverty. For anybody who is aware of this, it's the distinguishing divide between someone with a left liberal politics and someone with a left socialist politics.
What the right wing criticsm taps into is the almost alien origin of this invective, to substiute characters based on the colour of their skin whereby bourgeois liberals simulatenously deny and affirm race as a substantive issue on which only they may claim ground, as coming from an elite which is out of touch with the nation.
This isn't even contending with the reality of immigration as a depressant for wages, which forms part of the backdrop of the class struggle. Thus the enlightened student activist who engages with vague ultra-liberal narratives of pro-immigrant reform is cut from the same cloth as the hardened racist. Such that you have an overlap between the positions of Labour and the Conservatives.
>>586166>>586167>>586168>>586169UK IMT is about to rebrand as The Revolutionary Communist Party, I know some and theya re an alright lot BUT unless you are specifically pro-Soviet but anti-Stalin there is no reason to join RCP over the CPB; at its fundamentally the CPB and YCL are far better organised and able to get people together for shit. Not a member,( disagree with them far too much on history and policy). Do NOT join any other organisations that are trotskyist or "communist". SWP and FRFI are rape cults, and everyone else is a joke or irrelevant. FWIW if you are very pro-Woman Life Freedom then SAlt is very active in those circles for whatever reason, and if you want to focus on trade union organising rs21/Counterfire are good (with rs21 being involved in Palestine stuff too) but they are irrelevant overall.
As for orgs in brum, not explicitly communist or even socialist but the Youth Front for Palestine are doing some incredible work fighting for Palestinian liberation. Overall I would focus more on campaigns than A PARTY. There is a lot of good stuff for trade unions, Palestine, housing rights, and environmentalism going on that is non-party. I dunno if Brum has a tenants' union (that isn't ACORN) but reach out to both of them if they exist.
>>586174Thanks for the detailed reply mate.
Honestly I'd just do union stuff but my line of work isn't very adjacent to it.
Fuck it let's go CPB.
>>586176I get you, thing is IMT in the UK isn't just another trot org, it has a specific history: it was the branch of Militant that stayed in Labour (only to be kicked out a couple of years ago). It once had a place of being the Marxists within Labour but now, well it is just trying to be a Leninist party in an already crowded field. picrels are the logos of various existing communist parties that arent RCP or CPB.
>>586177Fair enough. DO look into y.f.f.p. though, they are only just setting up in Birmingham but their work in Manchester has been stellar.
Also the mainstream branch of CPB is pretty meh its YCL that is able to do anything
>>586179what they are doing is taking revolutionary energy and channeling it into a feckless group that has no goals and spends its time debating motions of solidarity and doing just enough town centre stalls to get a newspaper going.
That goes for all the trot/rev com groups out there. What actual wins do they have?
>>586174Why do so many logical communists have this fetish for turning their org into a "communist party" especially since to really consider yourself a "workers party" you need a lot more % of the vote
I am not talking about ml sects here
>>586184Wait wait wait wait, a queer transgender person named… Ghey?
God is a really shitty writer sometimes, goddamn, I mean I don't blame him with billions to write for but sometimes this shit is just lazy, that's like naming a black man Nicholas Kerr.
>>586178Why does the left always fall to factionalism..
>>586183Because they fall for the vanguard party meme by Lenin?
>>586188<t. Didn't follow the case or read the post past first line.Moron. Read more. Reson the left Is shit is ppl like you.
>>586189I think it would have been a dangerous route to go down if they tried the case this way as people wanted and would have probably let to worse outcomes.
>>586196Madness. Don't know a single person in the UK who thinks like this either, be it borne here or migrated here.
Sure the tories are trying to push anti trans and queer idpol downstream of the USA but you have to be nothing but a dooming shut-in freak or a fed to believe the spin has landed in the fucking slightest.
>>586187>Why does the left always fall to factionalism..The britcucks always fall back on their natural imperialist and bourgeois tendencies, this explains why the britcucks are doomed to their inherent bourgeois trade unionism. Any attempt to go beyond trade unionism is ineffectual because the british are naturally cucked, due to their "environment" and such
All of the splits are from the britcucks naturally yearning to devolve from revolutionary scientific socialism down to economist menshevist trade unionist bourgeois worker politic, because it is their nature. All of these universal problems have their roots from britain
>>586197>Don't know a single person in the UK who thinks like this either, be it borne here or migrated here.Trans person*
That's the important part, sorry.
>>586196You can go through Marx's On The Jewish Question and replace references to 'jews' with 'transgender' and the same argument still holds up:
the movement for sexual liberation, including the trans movement, now simply stands for the ascension of legal recongition under the liberal state in order to be granted the same rights as the ideal bourgeois citizen. The sexual politics of the 60s and the 70s which stood side by side with its already waning socialist counterparts have all but disappeared, replaced by a universalist bourgeois state with which the rights of transgender people, like those of the jews in the 19th century, are to be covalent.
These are even the stated aims of transgender activist groups within the UK, as well as the US. This is why every news story revolves around or is centred upon legal battles that attest to the willingness of the governemnt to grant said rights.
Because, as the argument is sketched out in On The Jewish question, these groups do not stand for the real material emancapation of thier members, but simply induction into the liberal order of which they form part.
Once again, as always, the paranoid reactionary fantasy attests to a truth: the politics of sexual liberation has become a function in the reproduction of both bourgeois society and the state. What is termed the 'establihsment'.
As it has been for the past two hundred years, as it will be for the next two hundred, the liberation of one class of individuals is contingent on the general conditions of the liberation of the whole. To take a Marxist position is to recognise class as the overriding factor.
>>586174>>586178To this anon, and other anons here.
What is the path for these parties, would it be beneficial for the communist movement, that marxist parties within Britain unite into a coalition/front and eventually 'one big party', or is that unity of parties into an 'umbrella organization' (and later if ever, a singular organization) in the foreseeable future not possible; how long could this take, how much effort and how could it practically be done, or should that unity happen or is it nessecary?
And a side question: out of the organizations discussed so far what would be recommended to join, and if the Anon who said they disagree with the CPB, who's better than them?
>>586215It depends what your endgoal is. If it's electoral relevancy then you have to build the broadest alliance possible to bring in as many people as possible. If it is direct action then having lots of diffuse groups that coordinate and act at different levels that can often be better. If its industrial organising well you need a broad and powerful trade union movement before you can hope to turn it towards proletarian action. If it is anything else its not really meaningful and don't bother. I don't think we fix this country tomorrow if all the communist parties suddenly got together in some united front, but cooperation is essential (the Palestinian struggle ahs been exemplary in this btw, bringing together and even founding organisations on the fly to address the requirements of the campaign).
I am the anon who said they disagree with CPB (sorry but I am not joining in with Stalinists who praise Xi) but honestly I am more than willing to work with them on issues that we agree on. I am not a fan of joining a specific party because imo none have legs atm. A part of me wants to join the Greens
if they do well in the next GE because they might be a great vehicle for rebuilding mass politics but they are not a party of the proletariat and I don't pretend that they will become such. Again I think our strategy as socialists/marxists/communists/whatever in the face of a coming second Blair Government is to focus on the tangible and strategic that can be achieved through direct action. Right to Roam to open up the commons, organising & expanding trade unionisation, tenant unionisation, attacking elements of the international war machine etc. We can impart change and such movements can be used as a means to organise back into a process of mass politics that has been list in the era of neoliberalisation and atomisation. There aren't coal mines that you can convert into Little Moscow's anymore, in the age of social disintegration we need to fight on causes that bring people together and in turn create social integration. So I would say is work with parties that are willing to do that, but at the same time be a free agent. Once we are in a position where we have resocialised ourselves, then we can hope to build a proletarian party.
>>586216Oh no, not the poor Starmerinos :(
The UK "left" is like a battered housewife to Labour
>>586226 Tbh what you say is not exactly a bad idea but i think the best way for the British socialist movement to grow would be through directly supporting the Prolereat through charity work along with direct actions against things like housing evictions as well as piss poor housing conditions (Like clarion housing is kind of know for being cunts when it comes to maintaining there tenants living spaces and Clarion is like one of the largest housing accosiations within the UK.)
Of course uniting the Socialist parties of the UK would certainly help, as it would give the left some much needed unity which would help present it as a viable alternative to Labour and the Conservatives who are already hated by large portions of the voting electorate.
Now i'm not exactly dumb enough to think that the Revolution can be achieved through the ballot box, hell labour tried that in the 50s and look where they ended up, however i still do think that things like protest actions and other forms of raising public awareness are still extremly important in building up a base of reliable supporters for the Class war that is to come.
I know it's old news, but this is absolutely fucking absurd
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-67779200<University of Bradford plans scholarship for white working-class malesCategorisation by race, gender, sex, whatever you name it does not fundamentally resolve nor represent the background you are attempting to select until you begin to pay attention to the material disparities that beget them, it will simply entrench the already existing divisions and promote an outcome which skews whatever result you hoped to gain according to it. At best it will reify issues with social mobility.
The absolute contradiction is that in order to resolve the issue of the exclusion of one section of society, the entire system must be changed. You would not need a scolarship for working class males if scolarships were granted according to fundamental economic signifiers such as income becasue it would be universally representative apriori.
But that extends to the issue of race too. Racial segregation within London for Black families is primarily a result of a history of low incomes and a dependancy on social housing (the largest ethnic group in social housing within London is Black-British). Were scolarships granted on an income basis, i.e. were the educational apparatus orientated according to the most economically deprived, or according to need, the fundamental basis for that division would be eliminated.
But that system is not in place. So before families from such backgrounds even have the opportunity to enter into a social-labour system which maintains mobility for the educated few, they are filtered out. Universities effectively have no choice but to select according to race because structurally it is maintained.
The reality of this is that these academic positions are occupied by those for whom the educational system, and by in large the system of social mobility, has worked. School places for children are decided by geographic location, which are in turn affected by house prices. Household ownership is directly related to a parent's or couple's income, which is essentially a relationship with the past historical division of wealth.
The peak irony in all this may be summed up as that, by targetting a scolarship for working class individuals, irrespective of race and gender, it is essentially admited that every other bares no reflection to the actual society from which they descend: academic research becomes the preserve, as it has in the US to the extreme, of the petite-bourgeoisie.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/04/john-mcdonnell-labour-britain-far-right-risk
>Britain risks shift to far right if Labour fails to enact ‘radical change’, says John McDonnell<Former shadow chancellor says public disillusionment could set in and calls for ‘real strategy’ on wages and incomes
>British politics risks an unprecedented shift to the far right as a result of public disillusionment if a Labour government fails to enact radical change, the former shadow chancellor John McDonnell has warned.
>Writing in the Guardian, McDonnell said the threat would come not just from Nigel Farage’s resurgent Reform UK but from the return of a Conservative party “shorn” of its moderate wing and dominated by populists.
>McDonnell, who served in the shadow cabinet under Jeremy Corbyn, reflected the views of others on his party’s left who are impatient with what they regard as Labour’s too-cautious approach. “The central messaging of Keir Starmer’s electoral strategy is that he’s not Jeremy Corbyn and that Labour is not the disaster that is the Conservative party,” he said.
>McDonnell pointed to the polling figures of Reform UK, reaching as high as 11%, as evidence of “how a far-right populist programme can pull the major parties on to a rightwing agenda”.
>It was Farage, Reform’s honorary president and the focus of speculation about a possible return to frontline politics, who had “polluted” Britain’s politics during the year of the referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU, McDonnell added.
>But he claimed that the “more significant danger” from the far right would emerge if voters who placed their faith in Labour did not see change.
>“People will be patient as they fully realise how broken Britain is, but the foundations of credible and radical change will have to be seen to be being laid early in the life of the incoming Labour government,” he writes, calling for a “real strategy” to restore the value of wages and incomes. There had also been a retreat on key core policy commitments, he said, such as the level of investment needed for Labour’s green new deal.
>“If Labour fails to set out early upon a path of radical change to secure the all-round wellbeing and security of our people, then inevitably disillusionment will set in,” McDonnell said. “The risk then is the potential for a significant shift in our politics to the right, with the return of a Conservative party completely shorn of any traditional one nation Tories and under the dominance of the populist right both within the party and beyond.”
>Farage has continued to keep people guessing about his intentions of a return to politics, which could involve coming back as the leader of Reform or joining the Conservatives.
>Reform’s leader, Richard Tice, told a press conference on Wednesday that terrified Conservative MPs were pleading with the party not to stand against them in the general election and that Farage was “committed” to aiding his party’s efforts.
>While the surge in support for Reform is regarded as presenting a major threat to Conservative electoral hopes by dividing the vote on the right in many constituencies, YouGov polling last year found that voters who supported the Tories in 2019 were more likely to switch to Reform than to Labour.
>A Labour spokesperson said: “With Keir Starmer’s leadership, the Labour party has changed and is unrecognisable to the party which was rejected by voters in 2019. Our five bold missions will spark a decade of national renewal, to make working people better off and give Britain its future back.” BBC and Guardian reported PM Rishi Sunak's "Working Assumption" is a General Election in the Second Half Of The Year and not a May General Election that some commentators had previously guessed.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jan/04/keir-starmer-speech-rishi-sunak-labour-conservatives-uk-politics>>586241Unfortunate News but since the start of the 2010s with the Ukraine Fascist Coup, and around 2015-2016 with the rise of the far-right e.g. US Charlottesville alongside fascist sympathizing, fascist or semi/proto-fascist electoral candidate or figures e.g. Farage or Robinson; this has been a slowly but surely increasing trend, which now seems to be intensifying in reaction to massive changes happening in the world since 2020.
Corbyn claimed he wanted an "democratic environment" during his rule, he should have purged his enemies inside the party and entrenched his policies inside the party, not sure what he could have done about the state and its force like the military and intelligent going against him apart from speak out about.
Right now, with the rift in labour from the Palestinian genocide and many progressive MPs constitutients being against any support or comprise on the issue of Occupied Palestine; surely this would be the perfect moment for an official split from labour and the creation of a social democratic party from Corbyn?
A question for Anons, let's say Corbyn somehow does create a new party (Doubtful as he missed his chance you could say with Starmer coming in to power), would this be a good opportunity for the marxist, communist left to 'unite' or 'act' together as a faction with Corbyn's party? Similar to the Russian Social Democratic Party like the bolsheviks? Or is that comparison incorrect and dated for our times?
>>586243It's just an inapporpriate comparison. Workers movements throughout Europe at the turn of the 20th century were reaching their zenith.
Compare that to today; Britain labours under a class system which has completely divided its workers thanks to the success, and subsequent death of, its social democratic gains. The traditional workers parties are a flickering shadow of what they once were, each mired in dogmatic squabbles about doctrinal verse which were antiquated before the turn of the millenium, let alone after.
If Corbyn did start a party, which would inevitably rely on his familiarity in the public eye, it would face the same issues Reform will; it will not be able to dislodge the FPTP system, and would simply threaten to steal concessions from Labour. Disregarding the baffling future that would pose, the miniscule workers parties would simply attempt to splinter whatever support it could from Corbyn's party and leech its supporters.
The conditions are completely different; there is an active section of the British proletariat who view themselves as aligned with a fundamentally reactionary ideology. Solidarity as a byword has vanished. Why? Because they are proles in the truest sense of the word: they are bourgeois subjects. They are householders, landlords, small business owners, workers disparaged who have been drawn to choose between a metropolitan elite they cannot identify with, or the party of common-sense and good household budgeting, who honour royalty and value 'traditional British values'.
The section of the working class who face growing destitution are wrapped into the same system and will form the basis for the growth in Popularism. McDonnell is fundamentally right, the absolute tragedy is that no one, not even Labour progressives will listen.
>>586245>>586243You can even see Labour buckling under the pressure of this draw towards reactionary politics through their position on Transgender rights.
I place absolutely no stock in the Transgender argument; Zizek's critique, that the attempt to secure rights from the state in order to revolutionise the social relations of gender, fundamentally displaces the contradiction of gender altogether is the most valid.
But Labour, a party bulwark of progressive rights much like the ardent Metropolitan democrats of the US, should be engaging with and promoting solidarity. Instead Starmer has simply met the issue with quiet hesitation as he is forced to choose between a section of the electorate who see themselves as the future and one who sees themselves as the past.
If he engages with the former he will be lambasted by Murdoch's press, which has an iron grip on public's consciousness, and be seen as unelectable. If he engages with the latter, which is what is happening, he will quietly dismiss questions of sexual rights with the air of a technocrat and simply give way to the contradiction he finds himself in.
This is without highlighting their regression to austerity politics in order to secure establishment support. The overton window of bourgeois party-democracy is shifting because there is a backsliding, which is tilted in favour of Capital.
>>586245Thanks, I thought the comparison wouldn't exactly match up due to how different the objective conditions of the world are and the subject conditions of the movement compared to the 1920s to 2020s; even with similarly rising conditions of multipolarity and rivalry worldwide but that's a different topic.
So from my understanding, you've said:
1) The Workers movement due to the concessions of social democratic gains, universal services pacifying workers, and destruction of social democratic gains, neoliberal austerity atomizing workers; this has weakened the workers movement.
2) The left, since the destruction of the USSR has led parties being divided against each other, especially ideologically, I assume trotskyists.
3) a supposed new part from Corbyn could not make any gains under FPTP nor remove it; any workers parties, the communists unlike before a increasingly smaller, will only attempt to steal supports from Corbyns party and break it up, rather than work together as a faction inside that party
4) A part of the British working class believe in and work within reactionary Ideology, due to the position they are in under Capitalism in, the roles or work they occupy that they have active interests in due to owning land and housing or their work which is tied to the capitalist system, they have no choice but a party of the explicity ruling class with no relatability or a party promoting Ideology of British traditionalism, Loyalty to the monarchy, and monetary saving.
5) Increasingly worse living conditions among another section of the working class, who are swept into populism.
In conclusion you say McDonnell is correct, the situation in the country is worsening in relation to the rise of the far right and a useless progressive left and marxist left as we've said, I would safely assume you find the conditions today to be depressingly bad?
All I can think what the fuck do we do, with how worse shit is getting, let me know if I interpreted your post right.
I fear if we the communists, can't do shit, we will not be doing anything ever.
>>586247That is essentially it. There is no attempt to stop the reversal of this trend because there is no historical agency in order to do so. You live in a period of reaction.
You exist in a period of history much as a peasant did in medieval Europe or as a slave did in Athens. The most you can do is engage with platforms that raise political consciousness and choose how to live your life.
Can you really blame Stramer? After all the British working class sold Corbyn and his socioeconomic reforms out for Brexit brexit brexit. Why should Stramer be so audacious with his political stances?
>>586248The Blairites will do it, not the progressives.
>>586249It's seriously unfortunate, from my reading of lenin recently, his State and Revolution and Writing on the Basel Congress and the Basel Manifesto itself has allowed me to understand what Revolutionary action must be done and What a Revolutionary Situation is and how since 2020 and before there has been intensified or weaker Revolutionary Situations like BLM, Palestine, Cost Of Living, Multipolarity, Covid … crises of Living below and and crises of governance above; but the main thing, out of these events there has been no marxist organization or progressives to take charge of this, meaning ruin after ruin.
If we live in a period of reaction with no defence against it, I can't imagine the horrid actions that will happen; if the focus of our movement is on political education and consciousness, then that should be our main activity, and pedantically I would ask how without an actual party or organization, but as you said try as we can within whatever platform and live our life.
>>586251 (me)
Additional I'll add those Revolutionary Situations have had progressives inside them, marxists inside them and I would regard all of them as class struggle (the general theory of social conflict which takes many forms) implicitly even if they don't explicitly mention class, they are all under the weight of economic, social, political and whatever phenomena shapes our world under capitalism; what we have is the objective conditons as Lenin says, the subjective conditions not really, that revolutionary action not really, at least in relation to Britain; maybe like Samir Amin said, history today will replay like the history of the past, revolutions in the oppressed nations rather than in the oppressor nations, but we can't be totally sure yet, there's alot of world shifts and conflicts emerging, let's see how they change the situation at home if they do.
>>586253Tbqh I'm not sure why he wore the "Lenin hat" when he
must have read State And Revolution at some point.
>>586263To be fair to them, the government has been going all out on just harming the population for various reasons. If they're kicking off about
reports about child poverty in the UK but tell the children and their parents to just deal with the poverty on their own and boasts about how the UK government is "strong" enough to break its own laws, there's little reason to assume this bully dog ban isn't going to literally involve a doggy auschwitz with police vans invading suburban streets in search of the now illegal dogs.
If you make your political message "tolerate it or we'll make it worse" like the Tories and Starmer have, you're giving people a reason to imagine how far this hostility goes.
>>586265no they dont
The biggest date to be aware of is the 31st December 2023. From this day, it will be illegal to sell, abandon, give away, or breed from an XL Bully, or have them in public without a lead and muzzle. In short, this is the date that they will be classified as a ‘banned breed’. Current owners must have registered for a ‘Certificate of Exemption’ in order to be allowed to keep their dog. People can apply for this licence from now and it must be done by 31st January 2024. The cost is £92.40.
In order to apply for the Certificate of Exemption, owners must also have proof of their dog’s microchip and take out third party public liability insurance for banned breeds of dogs. The Dogs Trust can provide this through their membership which costs £25 per year. A registered owner must be over 16 years old and be able to produce the Certificate of Exemption when asked to by a police officer or council dog warden, either at the time or within 5 days.
XL Bully dogs must be kept in a secure place and, when taken out, must be muzzled at all times. This may not be as simple as just putting a muzzle on and getting on with it, as many dogs will need to be given time to get used to wearing one. Now will be a good time to start muzzle training, and many organisations can provide free resources online. If you need any additional help, please feel free to speak to a member of our team.
In order to abide by the ban on breeding XL Bullys, owners of the breed must have them neutered, if they’re not already. This will apply to both male and female dogs and the dates by which it must be done vary depending on how old the dog is currently.
>>586268Don't think it's just PB tbh, there's lots of working class people who have been led to believe that politics revolves around handing privileges, rights and money to "non-Britons" while taking them away from "true Britons".
Even if the ban exists because kids keep getting their faces mauled off, the ban must be opposed simply because "the left" is supposedly demanding it and apparently "won't stop there".
>>586268I didn't think of that, additionally I'd say much of that petty bourgeois activism seems conspiratorial verging on far right Ideology, I don't see it aiding us, the communist movement, their "activism" doesn't say anything about the class struggle (Unlike BLM for example, which showed the class struggle and still we have lessons to learn from), it tells me that the middle class are going into some psychosis maybe due to their dwindling economic position.
>>586269Also this unfortunately many working class white people are simply racist, they only see a fictional "white working class" and can't see the working class for what it actually is, in its true variety or diversity, meaning they can't see even their economic interests, political interests, and keep things divided thanks to intelligence assets like Stephen Yaxely Lennon aka Tommy Robinson.
>>586270I'll just start by saying that I don't pretend to have the right answers here, but I appreciate your help:
I have to say that, despite living in England all my life, I don't really understand this country. What actually is the working class of our country? Am I working class because I am a teacher? If I talk to a retired white-van-man in the pub, is that guy working class because he thinks he is?
>>586271But we have a large home ownership rate apparently. With around 33% of homeowners having paid off their mortgage. So are you saying that all these people constitute an aristocracy? If so that's a lot of people who are relatively immune to the shittiness of life.
>>586272>But we have a large home ownership rate apparently.It's very divided by generation and all politics and media targets generations that have this high ownership.
>So are you saying that all these people constitute an aristocracy?Not in reality, but the perception is that homeownership is so hard to achieve these days that it does make you a bit special if you own a home, especially if you've paid off the mortgage. Certainly far above the millennials and gen Z who are selfishly whining about how much money you've made on your house and sobbing about how they've not made such smart investments, while shoving avocado toast in their mouths and quitting their jobs to watch Netflix full time.
>If so that's a lot of people who are relatively immune to the shittiness of life.Unironically yes, we've have the largest pay squeeze in British history since around 2008, salaries have barely budged since then while greedflation has been out of control so if the bulk of your career was prior to 2008 then you've have much more time to accumulate money when that was possible than millennial and Gen Z who most of (or their entire careers) have been during this wage squeeze where such accumulation was not possible.
To be clear, not everyone who owns a house is having the life of riley, but it's certainly considered the golden ticket these days that lefties and young'uns want to steal and give to themselves or, for a racist twist, to an illegal migrant, and thus defend from them fiercely. For today they're coming for your Bully XL, tomorrow it's your home.
>>586273Landlords* If you own a home and live in it, then by all rights that's a financial liability since houses deteriorate and will eventually fall down after which you'd need to buy a new one. It's only treated as an investment and a commodity because we like to pretend building houses are a really difficult thing to do, to produce artificial scarcity and a housing
market, but as with all scam investments someone is definitely going to be left holding the bag. In this case, someone's going to pay something like £300K plus for a house built 100 years prior that sooner rather than later is going to get surveyed and will be considered a danger to its occupants and their neighbours.
In that case, the only hope is your home insurance is going to pay out enough for some kind of home to live in afterwards.
>>586272This is a really good question, A question that I would say we should stick to Marx and other Marxists for a general understanding
If you don't know, I've had a okay-ish but rushed go at explain Class, but not the best below this paragraph. A new book came out last year explaining class in Britain which you might like called: A Nation Of Shopkeers by Dan Evans, it goes through the history of class in Britain and the current Class Structure; Also an article on Class Structure in the UK by a Communist Research Group 'Notes From Below' (article linked below); Anon from you're reading of these, please let the thread know your findings of the class structure in Britian, even if in a ranking sort of list if not a small few paragraphs.
https://notesfrombelow.org/issue/class-composition-projectMarx's theory of class struggle is the general theory of social conflict, therefore it is a broad theory.
Class is specifically related to the productiction and distribution of goods and services, whether they work relating to or own relating to those production and distribution of goods and services
Class and Class Struggle, is about the higher and lower grading of a person or peoples societal position who hold opposing economic interests, in either survival or thrival, in the holding of gold or pittance of coins; we see this from Slave and Master, Peasant and Lord in their own specific economic hierarchy, in the Capitalist System we see this class society:
For workers in a physical or intellectual aspect to obtain a wage in order to pay for their living conditions or they don't and instead are the owner, employing said workers in paying a wage to meet their living conditons, but at the same time these owners take a cut of the overall hours worked, one part goes to the workers living the other goes to that owners cut, their profits.
If we can't unite the Marxist, Communist Left Parties nto a coalition or umbrella org, and neither unite the Marxist, Communist 'population' in A labour or other progressive party as a faction.
What is to be done? Some anons have suggested Political Education and Campaigns, so is that is, and we wait, for what, why … there has been weakened or heightened revolutionary situations across this country and the world; yet Britain's marxists for some reason have not or cannot organize under a coalition, consolidate into one big party, form a faction of an mainstream party.
Is this what like another Anon said, as if we are the slaves of Ancient Athens, the peasants of Feudal London; I am not hopeless nor cynical but I do want to know the reality of this country's situation.
>>586277I appreciate this mate. I'll read both notes from below and nation of shopkeepers.
>>586279I see this question a lot and also the call to unite the leftist parties in Britain. I haven't a vast amount of experience here, but from the SWP i've talked to, well not to be too rude but they're kind of boring and they like Trotsky a lot. If other small parties are like that, then I don't see the worth in uniting them.
>>586268> activisms? Anti-lockdown, anti-vax, anti-ULEZ, pro-pet ownershipThese are skin deep contestations that merely aggravate and superficially transform the pre-exisitng social relations within British scoiety into cohesive fleeting and ephemeral 'movements'. Ones in which different cross-sections overlap in their beliefs and yet still retain their fundamentally antagonistic roles to one another, because they bare no consequence on one's actual standing within the material order, but simply interpolate, or position, one as a subject of the political order of rights.
In every single on you have stated the primary conflict is not one's relation to the ownership of production but simply one's status as a citizen. These are not confined to the petite-bourgeoisie because they do not originate solely within them. The fact that you cannot relate to them is about as unsurprising as saying that you cannot relate to a club for people who own Land Rovers. The politics of the modern liberal state are a product of its own creation.
>The PB in our country (or at least the white-van-man type) is repulsive to me. Is that because I'm a Lefty living in London?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_(book) >>586298Surprised by the hindus.
>>586299Interestingly the result of that arbitration were much more favourable to the Argentines. They don't like to mention that one though.
>>586297Fuck This Country, It's State and Military.
I Hope Yemen Sinks Any Of Our Ships and Blows Any Of Our Planes Out the Sky.
Free Palestine, Go Yemen.
Found this article written by a World Socialist Website writer on the day of the December protests in London for Palestine (on the 17th):
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/12/17/iyfv-d17.htmlIt's fairly inane reading until you reach this paragraph, in which they've interviewed someone at the protest:
<Diana said, “The paralysis of our governments, refusing to act against Israel, makes everyone feel like they have to move, they have to act, they have to do something. Just coming together on the street and showing solidarity, in the face of such grief, makes us feel like we can act and have an influence.”Which essentially summarises the circumstances in which the protestors find themselves; they have no political organ that is capable of channeling this reaction to the governments decisions, so they take to the only form of resistance they can, which in turn just serves as a counter-rationalisation; these demonstrations do not in any meaningful way challenge the hegemony Westminster wields, but entrench it.
Protesting has simply become a vehicle through which acceptable political dissent is carefully managed. One month on and after the protests on Saturday the 13th of January, nothing has changed; in fact Starmer has doubled down behind the authorisation for the strikes on the Houthis in order to protect international shipping.
A year of protesting will not change anything. The quoted woman is right but to an extent to which she is not aware: these demonstrations solely serve to pacify, and maintain the fiction that political authority lies sqaurely within the consent of the governed, when the complete opposite is true.
Hence, it is not a paralysis of the government to act, but a complete deadlock in terms of agreement. Primarily due to the material conditions of the present. All that stands is for the veil to fall, and to see what is already known; that both parties are two heads of the same monster.
>>586304This is just absolutely comical.
The peak irony is that it is explained away as an issue of choice.
>>586308I'm being 100% serious here, is Starmer actively trying to lose by pushing Wes Streeting into the limelight so often? Or is he trying to make his unusual block of ham face look less off-putting in comparison by standing next to such a hideous and unlikeable person?
Wes Streeting looks like a grown up Pinocchio that gave up on becoming a real boy and decided to go with the Buffalo Bill tactic instead, so the latter option might be effective if he doesn't overdo it.
>>586314Anon look at labour. And then look at the tories.
It doesn't matter how many genuinely insane takes they make or how many legitimately evil or retarded candidates they have, neither look like they can lose. Because there are no alternatives.
What else is there other than the frankly uncharismatic and lackluster Reform Party and SDP and the unelectable internet maymay nashunulists like UKIP.
It's all fucked.
>>586316It's a common thing that the defence secretary comes out, will issue a report or make an announcement, that UK defence spending is too low we need to do more etc etc.
This is really just a continuation in that vein, except he's just putting into words the planning that is being undertaken behind the scenes, that being rhetoric which simply aims to score political points and funding.
Sunaks government have less than a year left and it will be on the incumbent governemnt (Starmer's) to actually set out a spending review; if Britain does begin to re-arm, it will begin with him.
>>586333>faragistThe Reform Party has no charisma since Farage left, and its vague promises on restoring British Industry and making Brexit actually work isn't enough.
Even if they won it would soon becoming increasingly obvious that the way to restore industry, protect jobs and restore our national independence is through socialism.
>>586338Russell is a silly man.
Very excited for when I no longer have to pay for the BBC is 100 years time.
>>586332What absolute fucking navel-gazing. From her wikipedia:
>In 2014, Williams defended the social policy legacy of former Labour prime minister Tony Blair and denounced those calling him a war criminalThat byline is astonishing because it so openly vaunts her position to a degree to which she is not aware; reading this garbage is like watching puppets ramble on about the inanity of their own lives, all the while unaware that they have Adam Smith's invisible fist shoved up their arse. You end up with love letters like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/02/how-can-keir-starmer-win-big-this-year-by-leading-with-love-and-ambitionin which they pontificate on large about the necessity for structural reform from a party that in the same breath has abdicated all political will to do so. The sheer irony of that title being about love and ambition, from an incumbent government that is in lock-step with the securtiy state regarding Britain's 21st century imperialist policy.
This idiot straddles contradictions such that she could walk on both sides of the Avon gorge.
>>586356they have no choice
there really is no choice in the next election
>>586357Ken Griffin may as well have effectively announced as such with his speech
>>586316The entire apparatus has shifted and what prevails is a political dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Social life has been completely reorganized upon the new basis of wealth, see pic.
As the same time as the electorate go to the polls in order to oust the Tories in an attempt to end a decade and a half of their own political repression, what they will essentially be voting in is the beginning of its new rule.
Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika
Maluphakanyisw' uphondo lwayo
Yizwa imithandazo yethu
Nkosi sikelela, thina lusapho lwayo.
Morena boloka setjhaba sa heso,
O fedise dintwa le matshwenyeho,
O se boloke, O se boloke setjhaba sa heso,
Setjhaba sa, South Afrika, South Afrika.
Uit die blou van onse hemel,
Uit die diepte van ons see,
Oor ons ewige gebergtes
Waar die kranse antwoord gee.
Sounds the call to come together,
And united we shall stand.
Let us live and strive for freedom,
In South Africa, our land.
>>586366Well he only said 'political TV'.
>>586361Haha. Yeah. The series only achieved making normies like Gene Hunt (even though he's a twat).
>>586367It's been fairly common throughout history up until urban cemeteries to reuse graves, back in the olden days they would put the bones in a charnel house or bury them deeper. It's common practice in Germany, my mum has to pay a gardener to upkeep all her relatives' graves otherwise after a relatively short period of time they'll get dug up and the graves reused. I don't really have a problem with it if no-one's around who knew or had a connection to the person, grave space isn't endless. In this cemetery's case they're doing burials over 75 years old and putting up notices and contacting relatives where possible to enable them to object.
>>586369They're digging them up, burying them deeper and doing new graves on top of them. So necromancy is still on the table.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/defending-britain-from-a-more-dangerous-worldGrant Shapps Decence Secretary has said:
"[We are] Moving from a post-war to a pre-war world … In five years’ time we could be looking at multiple theatres involving Russia, China, Iran and North Korea."
Shapps, is also using the above to justify increased defence spending.
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