Labour is still set to sweep into power with an overwhelming majority with support from most of the media and little scrutiny. Their manifesto pledges now confirmed - which will they stick to I wonder? Probably only the one about corporation tax.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69111362
<NHS: "Cut NHS waiting times with 40,000 more appointments each week, during evenings and weekends, paid for by cracking down on tax avoidance and non-dom loopholes"
<Immigration: "Launch a new Border Security Command with hundreds of new specialist investigators and use counter-terror powers to smash criminal boat gangs"
<Tax: "We will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT" and "Labour will cap corporation tax at the current level of 25%, the lowest in the G7, for the entire Parliament"
<Energy: "Set up Great British Energy, a publicly-owned clean power company… paid for by a windfall tax on oil and gas giants"
<Antisocial behaviour: "Crack down on antisocial behaviour, with more neighbourhood police paid for by ending wasteful contracts, tough new penalties for offenders, and a new network of youth hubs"
<Education: "Recruit 6,500 new teachers in key subjects… paid for by ending tax breaks for private schools."
<Voting age: "We will increase the engagement of young people in our vibrant democracy, by giving 16- and 17-year-olds the right to vote in all elections"
<Parents: "We will support families with children by introducing free breakfast clubs in every primary school"
<House of Lords: "Legislation to remove the right of hereditary peers to sit and vote in the House of Lords… Labour will also introduce a mandatory retirement age [from the House of Lords, set at 80]">>598198Well yeah, that's why I'm saying the most important thing is the material interests of the R&D workers. It needs to be an attractive career choice so that the most talented people will pursue it instead of just being analysts for a bank.
>>598199The problem with electric trains is surely the high initial building cost. This is, again, a technology problem - we need a more efficient way to build high speed railway.
Jevons paradox will persist as long as we are still using the same energy sources, but again this is a technology problem. We need replacement energy sources rather than just more efficient uses of the existing ones.
The one thing I'll grant you is nuclear power, since governments have decided to deliberately retard its development. If it were allowed to develop we would have a massive wealth of carbon neutral electricity by now. Also thorium reactors could potentially use the waste from old uranium reactors as fuel, actively cleaning up all the dumping sites.
>>598199>I feel like this is more likely to lead to you credibility-washing "anti-elitist elites"These are the most succesful politcal actors our time, yes we would like to follow their discurcive strategy.
>if we looked at this like some kind of grand game, my immediate strategy would be to re-investigate the possibilities of playing at rad-libbery. Failed strategy and anti-marxist.
>>598200You aren't going to get a much more efficient way to build a high speed railway, mainly due to another effect that loves to fuck you: Baumol's cost disease.
In short: Wages in "inefficient" sectors have to rise in line with those of "efficient" sectors, leading to persistent above-productivity cost growth. The go-to example is a string quartet: the musicians are not
one percent more productive than they were in the year 1700, it takes exactly the same number to do exactly the same work, but they're not paid 1700s wages. construction, obviously, has gotten more efficient - but not at the same pace as manufacturing or other sectors. ultimately it's just too finicky. The cost disease is a problem that only gets worse with time, so avoiding building rail today because you think it'll be cheaper tomorrow just means that - if and when you do decide to stop dawdling - you pay even higher costs.
>>598204>These are the most succesful politcal actors our timeThis speaks to class power, not to their grand rhetoric.
Look at Johnson vs Corbyn. The anti-Elitist elite versus the anti-Elitist non-elite. Do you think Johnson won because he was a rhetorical genius, or because he was propped up by bourgeois institutions? Which better explains the way his support was turned off like a lightbulb?
Do you think the reason Farage outpolls Galloway is because he's better at anti-Elite posturing than Galloway is, or because the BBC, the press, and
the fucking Labour party love giving Farage attention while seeing Galloway as a side show? (Labour are actively trying to undermine their own candidate running against Farage! Do you think they're giving up Rochdale with similar ease?)
>>598207>This speaks to class power, not to their grand rhetoric.You are litterally r-tarded please read Laclau. These stategies originated on the left and have been used extensivly outside the west.
>Do you think Johnson won because he was a rhetorical genius or because he was propped up by bourgeois institutionsBoth are true. More down to the failures of Corbyn.
>Do you think the reason Farage outpolls Galloway is because he's better at anti-Elite posturing than Galloway is?Yes
>>598205this is basically the case.
what's disappointing from the left is that what we really want is to find a way to bring back, in one way or another, fordism. a green new deal to replace the old new deal, or climate denial so we can all mine coal for the smoke factory. it's nonsense. nobody wants to seriously think about how you could totally restructure day-to-day life. happiness remains something to be measured by GDP figures - if the line does not go up, the result must be misery.
i think about this a lot:
https://robinmcalpine.org/thank-goodness-for-cheap-stuff-eh/ >>598212Wouldnt work
The reason the commonwealth sustains is precisely exactly because there's not much materialy behind it.
>>598219As far as I understand we already take others waste, thanks thatcher, so we may as well get one at last.
Not saying we should keep Hinckley Point either, on the other hand, its french and also looking at my local water company or bus company I'm thinking any reactors we do get should be up in Scotland or on them little islands from the coasts.
>>598217No you let Corbyn off, for his weakness , lack or organsation and will. His campaign and partymanagment was a shitshow. His communication strategy was dogshit.
Also this same thing could of been said of Russia 1917.
>>598223We are infinitely closer to both Russia 1907 and Russia 1996 than to Russia 1917.
Corbyn made many unforced errors - but see how many unforced errors Starmer makes and tell me with a straight face that the dice are not loaded. Or, since we're obviously not going to agree on that point, have an exercise: Articulate for me why Farage is a better communicator than Galloway, rather than his popularity being a simple function of press indulgence.
>>598206>Solar/windSolar is low yield, but also low maintenance due to the absence of moving parts. Wind is low yield and high maintenance, while also posing a threat to wildlife. All the resources put into wind farms would be better spent fitting every roof with solar panels and every building with a battery system. Some input from power stations will still be needed, however, which nuclear power could provide cheaply with zero carbon emissions.
>>598207>Baumol's cost diseaseThis is another tech problem though, namely building multipliers for the sectors that are lagging in productivity. Your example of the string quartet actually illustrates this perfectly - the musicians themselves may not be producing more music, but they can sell you a CD, bluray or streaming service to listen to it. 4 very skilled musicians can therefore perform for millions of people at a time, instead of the concert hall that their 1700 equivalents would be limited to.
>avoiding building rail today because you think it'll be cheaper tomorrow just means that - if and when you do decide to stop dawdling - you pay even higher costsThis would only be the case if there were some material upper limit to efficiency that we had already reached. Have we really reached peak efficiency for track laying machines? Why can't other tasks like levelling and preparing the ground also become more heavily automated?
>>598213It would set an example for how to do it though. The technology could also be sold to other nations so they can do the same.
>>598216That's why thorium development is so important. You can reuse all the spent uranium as fuel instead of burying it.
>>598219Ideally we would have mass solarisation and insulation of all buildings combined with a nuclear program. The nuclear power would only need to cover the gap between solar supply and total energy needs. That would keep everything running efficiently for a long time, allowing scientists to move out of the oil and gas sector and work on even more long term solutions like enhanced geothermal.
>>598227This, plus they reify the nation state as if it were some kind of natural law. People who believe the propaganda are more willing to risk their lives for the nation. If we had a different social structure like, say, a world of autonomous cooperatives you would expect to see the opposite - people who believe in cooperatives would sign up for their local co-op militia while reactionaries would make excuses to avoid service.
>>598229>nuclear power could provide cheaplyIsn't nuclear power wildly expensive, takes 30 years to set up, and is then wildly expensive again when you have to dispose of the waste?
It might be green but it is not financially sound.
>>598228>Corbyn made many unforced errors - but see how many unforced errors Starmer makes and tell me with a straight face that the dice are not loaded. Simply not an argument. Yes its far easier to win political power when you have the backing of press and elite power. Thats not some brain wave its a known fact. This is not an arguement against thinking about how the left places itself discussivly.
>articulate for me why Farage is a better communicator than Galloway, rather than his popularity being a simple function of press indulgence.First of all, as you will see from my intial post , I was actually talking about discurvice positioning not political communication so I will awnser on that basis. These are just some thoughts off top of head but I may write up in more detail in a couple days
- Galloway position on Muslim interests/Gaza/Relationship with Iraqi/Syrian Goverment and - This position places him at odds with a large portion of the public as well as being anti-majoritain. It places him as an exlcusionary rather than inclusionary chain of equivalance. AKA Alientates people because he's seen to be siding with an out group. Linked to this is various meetings with IRA/Sinn Fein representatives.
-The essence of populist politcal cotestation is as outlined by Laclau, is meeting demands which cannot be met by the current political order. These are then bound in the chain of equivalance to create a politcal and social identity.
Farages core issue of contestsation is simply far more salient than Galloways (Which I would is its most specefic the above mentioned opposition to Isreal and resperentations of perceived Muslim group interests). Now you can say press indulgence ya ya - but this has been a salient political issue right or wrong in pretty much every place which has experinced migration at scale. Even with different press models and elite interests. Because this issue is so much more salient with a far larger portion of the public of course Farage would be more popular and create a more popular identity.
-Galloway says things which disturb his chain of equivalance where Farage doesn't. Galloway leans into contrevertial and not always popular issues which prevent him creating a chain of equivalance and therefore voter identity. Farage on the other hand is able to create an identity which is broad and popular. Futher it is more focused on a tigher range of largely popular issues, if Farage is ever in public, he's always talking about the 2 things that make him popular Immigration and EU, occasionally sprinkled in with braod anti-elite rhetoric. Where as galloway has a broader range of far less popular and salient issues.
Also obviously Farage has an easier job because of press support/media coverage
I may write up far more but I would have to delve back into more of the details of Galloways past public statements and contreversies.
>>598229>Your example of the string quartet actually illustrates this perfectly - the musicians themselves may not be producing more music, but they can sell you a CD, bluray or streaming service to listen to it. This constitutes an entirely different service, and arguably one provided by a separate recording industry. Fundamentally, the efficiency of producing the actual music has not changed one jot. The live concert today is no more efficient than it ever was.
Let's look at it from another angle: What do you think is better for stimulating effective railway research, so that we can actually develop magical track laying machines: building a lot of railways and seeing what the inefficiencies are in our existing processes, or sitting on our hands waiting for someone else to invent the machine so that we can make use of it? (and hoping, by-the-by, that the cost of doing so hasn't increased
further still, which it may well do if the productivity gains of the new technologies don't keep pace with the most productive industries)
Fundamentally if you want something done, you ought to do it. "It's too expensive" is a cop out for doing nothing on the state level. "Maybe it will be easier tomorrow" is a cop out for doing nothing on every level.
>>598223>His campaign and partymanagment was a shitshowYes they were. That doesn't mean there aren't also institutional forces working to keep the Labour party neoliberal.
>>598228>see how many unforced errors Starmer makesA great multitude. That doesn't mean Corbyn wasn't useless. If you want an actual opposition to New Labour™ it does need competent leadership to succeed.
>Articulate for me why Farage is a better communicator than Galloway, rather than his popularity being a simple function of press indulgence.He honestly is, although that's not the only reason for his greater success - the Conservatives are just not very skilled at dealing with opposition flaking them from the right, whereas Labour are extremely good at defaming people who try to flank them from the left.
The left could learn a lot from the Farage communication style, which is divisive at the group level while being personally non-threatening. For example, if you shout "racist" at Farage he will shrug it off with a smile and explain his actual views on immigration. Galloway will respond to the same insult with a lecture on why you are the racist for supporting Israel, complete with moral fervour like a preacher denouncing a heretic. Both are powerful, but Galloway scares normies.
The Farage style is better for generating media coverage. His ideas are controversial enough to generate sensational headlines, but when people hear him speak they don't feel threatened. This is absolute gold for a broadcaster looking to maximise ratings, so of course they keep covering him.
>>598230It's wildly expensive if you don't use it long enough to pay for itself because you gave in to anti-nuclear protestors and decided to regulate it away. Also thorium breeder reactors can reuse waste from uranium reactors as fuel, while producing very little waste themselves. Future nuclear projects could therefore have a negligible waste disposal cost if the initial setup is done correctly.
>What do you think is better for stimulating effective railway researchSupport the material interests of people who do the research. Make it an attractive career so that highly intelligent people with STEM training do it instead of going into finance or making iphone apps.
>building a lot of railways and seeing what the inefficiencies are in our existing processesOptimising the existing processes can only get you so far. The game changers occur when someone develops a completely new process based on a completely new technology. Think of when diesel replaced steam, for example. A diesel engine doesn't develop from gradual improvements in steam engines, it is a completely new technology that has to be designed from scratch.
>Fundamentally if you want something done, you ought to do it. "It's too expensive" is a cop out for doing nothing on the state level. "Maybe it will be easier tomorrow" is a cop out for doing nothing on every level.By this rationale everyone should be working on asteroid mining, as there is more mineral wealth there than in the Earth's crust. The fact is it just isn't viable yet. Space travel needs to get orders of magnitude cheaper first.
>>598234One of them might be an actor. Not sure about the others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXfsgy7jxRw>>598235My local got turned into a spoons. Feels bad man.
>>598233>Yes they were. That doesn't mean there aren't also institutional forces working to keep the Labour party neoliberal.When did I ever say there wasn't.
This is "lefty"pol. Its a given that any leftwing movement will be visciously attacked. Thats why the tatics have to be as close to perfect as possible. Mistakes are unaccaptable
>>598231>>598233Assuming you're different anons, but i don't have much to add beyond being fair and saying: Not bad posts. I disagree with what I take to be their overall thrust (that there's much in Farage-and-similar's content/positioning that is useful to the left), but i think you're onto something with the broad framework you're looking at things through. Full credit for coming at things from an interesting angle.
Though when it comes to scaring normies I have to wonder if the problem isn't in large part (British, non Marxist) class autism: Farage is a southern wanker, Galloway, an angry Scot.
>>598238Thanks for the praise Anon, that is a diffetent guy
I'm the first one. And I would really recomend giving Laclau a read if you have the time.
specifically on populist reason if you only want to read one of his books.
Although his other book the making of political identity has great chapters as well.
Geniunly having read a good ammount of contempary theory, the most valuable person you can read to understand liberal demoractic politcal dynamics.
>>598246I recognise that 'It's the end why don't you admit it … it's the same from Auschwitz To Ipswich' would have been more topical.
Oh well.
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