/meta/ - Ruthless criticism of all that exists (in leftypol.org)

>To bring up just two of our most notable examples, namefags such as King Lear and Grillpilled Schizo have made posts bragging about
>A) How America will handily defeat Russia in a real war and how it would be good, and
>B) Critical Support for Azov Battalion.
Neither of them are glowies and you are lying/misinterpreting what they said

Anyone that consistently attracts attention through astroturfing or spam will leave behind a pattern that can be used to help indentify them in the future.

>>18722
I've literally posted the quote from Grillpilled wherein he attempts to completely downplay the presence of fascist groups in Ukraine and pretend like it's normal.
I didn't save the quote from King Lear but he bragged about how American military might could totally destroy Russia (and listed a bunch of different planes/missiles/etc.) within hours and also included the laughing emoji multiple times to signify just how happy he would be with such a prospect.

Wow grillpill, I guess bandera wasn't a Nazi afterall

>>18724
nothing you are saying would make him a literal fed you dumb fuck

>>18727
>Supporting America and downplaying fascism
>On a Communist forum
>Not glowie behavior
ok retard

This makes no distinction between assets and agents. Some left-wing student who in the sixties goes to write his doctoral thesis on communist groups in Indonesia with a grant from The National Endowment Awards For Wonderful Peace Between Nations is an asset because in practice he is just helping the CIA make a kill-list, but he's not an actual agent. The founder of The Paris Review was an actual CIA agent.

You can’t actually be serious, right? Why would an literal federal agent, (which yes, we definetly have had some in the past few weeks) be a namefag you fucking internet-poisoned preteen?

>>18730 (me)
>>18729
>This makes no distinction between assets and agents.
Also this. Part of the way that feds astroturf is by propagandizing people to believe in what they’re saying and repeating it, which is way more effective than paying some staffers to post on a 300 person imageboard. Kind of like how neocolonialism can often be more effective for the colonial bourgeoisie than direct colonial rule.

Yes, turning this board into an FSB echo chamber is much more preferable than being a place with varied opinions! Muh CIA!!1

I dunno, just ignore them.

>>18730
To make it easier to keep track of their own posts for review later, and to log which ones receive the most favorable responses so that they can be repeated with anonymous posts later thereby generating a false consensus. Or have you not already noticed that it's been the namefags like Lear and Schizo who led with the most blatantly retarded shit in the Ukraine threads; almost like they were testing the waters to see what they could get away with? If you think a mere profile or identification is a thing glowies always try to avoid you've been living under a rock and have zero experience with social media. And here it's even less demanding than Facebook or Reddit or Twitter and you can simply slot a name into the name field and go. It doesn't even have to be the same person; I'm almost 100% certain that King Lear has already been swapped out at least once for another handler since anyone who remembers his early days probably remembers that he didn't use to spam emojis and that his text/spacing/paragraph style was much different. Likewise Grillpilled barely participated in real discussions before but went into overdrive during this recent Ukraine issue like he was pulled out of storage and given an assignment.
>>18732
FFS for the past few months as this post shows they've even been taking old /leftypol/ memes and replacing CIA with Russia and China as if it's not totally blatant what they're trying to do and as if Russia or China's propaganda are not just youtube videos with horrible production value or Facebook boomer memes that the Dems tried to pretend swung the election. There is zero cultural penetration from either nation into the major english speaking forums and yet somehow they are an equal threat to the relentless "both sides bad and yet I believe everything the Western media says about X Y and Z" narratives that are relentlessly shilled on any site claiming to be left wing in the slightest. hahaha fucking kill yourselves anyone can perceive the total chauvinism masquerading as neutrality.

>>18735
I dunno, this is an interesting post and as I tell my liberal friends, I don't know intelligence work.
But I know sports and as the italian playmaker Andrea Pirlo once said: "I’m a bit of a wandering gypsy on the pitch, a midfielder continually on the lookout for an unspoilt corner where I can move freely, just for a moment. All I’m after is a few square metres to be myself."
Analogously I'd expect them to move differently if they were professionals.

>everybody that disagrees with me is a glowie

and should therefore be banned

translation:

>I'm a little bitch who can't handle reading things I don't agree with

i should shut the fuck up

>>18728
China cucks do this lengthily when they pretend China never funded the Mujihadeen alongside the CIA.

I don't think its glowie behaviour they just can't admit they didn't know a thing.

>>18743
Glow harder anglo

>>18730
Glowing glow

>>18735
>To make it easier to keep track of their own posts for review later, and to log which ones receive the most favorable responses so that they can be repeated with anonymous posts later thereby generating a false consensus. Or have you not already noticed that it's been the namefags like Lear and Schizo who led with the most blatantly retarded shit in the Ukraine threads; almost like they were testing the waters to see what they could get away with? If you think a mere profile or identification is a thing glowies always try to avoid you've been living under a rock and have zero experience with social media. And here it's even less demanding than Facebook or Reddit or Twitter and you can simply slot a name into the name field and go. It doesn't even have to be the same person; I'm almost 100% certain that King Lear has already been swapped out at least once for another handler since anyone who remembers his early days probably remembers that he didn't use to spam emojis and that his text/spacing/paragraph style was much different. Likewise Grillpilled barely participated in real discussions before but went into overdrive during this recent Ukraine issue like he was pulled out of storage and given an assignment.
Thanks for responding in good faith, this post unironically taught me new things!

TL;DR:
>NOOOO my Russia thread needs to be an echo-tank!
>NOOOOOO you can't just post anti-Russia memes!
>NOOO If I disagree with you, YOU GLOW!
>PLEASE HELP ME, OH GRACIOUS JANNIES, PLEASE HELP AN INNOCENT RUSSIABOT KAREN LIKE ME NOT SEE OFFENSIVE MATERIAL ON MY TIMELINE!
You are beyond ridiculous. Your brains are fucking rotten beyond redemption by online politics. And you are also probably some postleftoid newfag who doesn't even know that leftypol was supposed to house even anti-USSR anarchists as comrades. Your crusade against "muh glow" is the same insane desire to create safespaces to pander to your beliefs like pol and twitterlibs desire for themselves.

>>18781
Punished Skitzo is based.

> Your crusade against "muh glow" is the same insane desire to create safespaces to pander to your beliefs like pol and twitterlibs desire for themselves.

this is exactly the point I have been on about for like 5 years now.

>>18781
The claim that you're a fed is ridiculous, but your otherwise based positions contrasted to your positions on the Ukraine crisis are uncharacteristic and could be a reflection of your schooling or some other deep seated belief. I frankly find it disappointing that you are unable to engage critically and bring new arguments to the table, instead rely on emotion.

>>18744
>pointing out the CIAs allies in possibly their most important geostrategic move of the last 30/40 years glows
yeh, case in point

>>18743
Everyone knows chinas foreign policy was absolutly horrendeus since late mao. Nobody ever denied this except maybe some schizo Gonzaloids

>>18796
yeh that's why they call me glow for pointing it out and actively pretend it never happened

>>18721
The best course of action is to join the mod team yourself. Take matters into your own hand. Make a matrix account and join the leftypol space, you can ask about joining the staff there.

motherfuckers who couldn't organize a bake sale are up here crying that someone's trying to pollute their foreign policy viewpoints. yeah, i'm sure the azov battalion is laughing it up that /leftypol/ is only 95% behind Russia. in that 5% they live, holding on day by day, in that five doth fascism thrive. From Russia the bombs fall and the shells land, but "more posts on /leftypol/!" is all that Langley demands.

idiocy, idiocy, rampant idiocy. in nowhere does idiocy thrive like in foreign policy. people who have no more influence on the flow of events than they do on the flow of the tides sitting getting pissy at other equally impotent people for their equally stupid opinions. people who're watching war like it's a spectator sport, but with none of the fun and drama and much, much more of the seethe. I want to have a parasocial relationship over the internet with a foreign armed force but the glowies won't let me. the only solution is to ban people i disagree with - no fighting in the war thread! - why should i be expected to go to the effort to make a new image macro to respond to arguments i disagree with?

my proposal: shut the site down for the duration of the war. have it hyperlink to that rock version of the Russian anthem. that'll show the glows. that'll show everyone i disagree with. that'll force me to find a new way to spend my day, finally liberated from my own lack of self control. oh who am i kidding, i'd only waste my time arguing about the MiG-21's KDR on /k/ instead. no, what i need is this: i need (you)s, i need attention, i need for someone else to build a better world, i need the bathroom, i need to be liberated from the horror of my own agency in the world, i need everyone to agree with me, i need america to take the L, i need to be left alone for a minute, i need you to do everything for me.

(This post was kindly funded by MI5, the United Kingdom's domestic counter-intelligence and security agency. MI5's mission is to keep the country safe. For more than a century we have worked to protect the UK from a range of threats, whether it be from terrorism or hostile activity by states. Think you could work for MI5? Put your memory and judgement skills to the test in the My MI5sion challenge. Can you crack our three secret tasks? https://www.mi5.gov.uk/my-mission )

>>18795
STILL shitposting with your shill talking points.

Cuba sided with the Soviets during the Split and eventually recognized that China changed up its foreign policy. China funded the Pink Tide which was the most anti-American governance over that LatAm region in decades. China has also dealt one of the most decisive blows to CIA networks in the 21st century. China despite immense Western pressure has also refused to condemn Russia for their intervention into Ukraine and is helping to circumvent sanctions under the table which would have been unthinkable under Deng.

You are SCUM who refuses to address actual reality in favor of dredging up old controversies everyone agrees on, like the equivalent of bringing up whatever the fuck the Tsar was doing in WW1 to condemn modern Russia as if there is an unbroken line of continuity. Every time this is brought up you slink back to the shadows and wait a couple weeks before bringing up Afghanistan again hoping to fool retards into thinking you have a good take.

KILL YOURSELF.

>>18781
Ok Mr. Azov Battalion supporter surely everything you say is in good faith when we already have EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE A FUCKING FASCIST SYMPATHIZER. KILL YOURSELF.

>>18800
>NOOO LET ME SHIT ALL OVER THE WALLS IT'S ONLY A HANDFUL PEOPLE DOING IT AND NOT EVERYONE SO THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE AHHHH
kill yourself

>>18803
the advantage of combining a plainly stated point with an artistic experiment in the written word is that you obtain a joint pleasure: you may tell a man plainly that the sky is blue, and he will retort that he wishes to kill his father and fuck his mother. his psychological preoccupations, imagined foes, sexual perversions and all of the rest of it come springing forth without the slightest of provocation.

it is that, and that alone, that elevates the experience above explaining world affairs to a dog.

it is unfortunate that 'dog' is such a satisfying word to end with, for our canine companions would be far less deserving of such haranguing. by and large dogs have an excellent philosophy of action - they desire and then they act, or they state plainly and honestly that they would like you to act with a little look or a whine. if a dog is tired, he sleeps, if he hungers, he whines, and if he wishes to see his dead master he sits down and waits. every internet communist could learn more from a dog than they could learn from a thousand theoretical tomes. sitting, arguing, pouring out word after word after word in the hopes that someone else will act on their behalf, or indulging escapist fantasies to get away from the nightmare that defines their own life. god saw fit to equip him - and not the dog - with the faculties for long term perception forwards and backwards in time, but as a good atheist he spurns the gift, puts up his feet, and bickers. a classless, stateless, moneyless society - yes! - just as long as i don't have to get up! not for nothing does the dog live closer to communism than you ever will. not for nothing does he deserve it!

>>18804
ok retard.
I love how pointing out your idiot liberalism that calls for the freedom of speech for state department shills to spew their lies everywhere is tantamount in your perspective to me saying that I'm going to kill your father and fuck your mother. For all your talk of psychological preoccupations and sexual perversions it's clear that you have a depraved mind if you automatically turn and jump topics to the raping and killing of bystanders and randoms when rebuked only once with two words.

You're not even a tenth as clever as your arrogant mind presumes and you hope to disguise the paucity of your position with unhinged rambling and diversions. The fact that outside /leftypol/ on all mainstream social platforms there is a tidal wave of pro-Ukrainian psychosis is empirical proof that the media environment matters and that the lax stance you advocate for will eventually lead to the liberal ideological subversion of this board just like it has to so many other platforms and websites that espoused neutrality and quickly turned into pro-American echo chambers.
Hilarious that you lot call for "no safe spaces" when literally every other site on the web with any real user base is a gigantic safe space for hating on Russians and you can easily pass off your shitty pro imperialist takes on those sites where you'd be welcomed and commended.

>>18800
You make a good point, I support your right to make it in gulag.

>>18803
> eventually recognized that China changed up its foreign policy.
fan fiction, prove it
>China funded the Pink Tide
fan fiction
>China despite immense Western pressure has also refused to condemn Russia for their intervention into Ukraine and is helping to circumvent sanctions under the table which would have been unthinkable under Deng.
china is a shrew business operator sure
>like the equivalent of bringing up whatever the fuck the Tsar was doing in WW1 to condemn modern Russia as if there is an unbroken line of continuity
except it is completely different because there are two revolutionary breaks between tsarism and modern russia, namely the rise and fall of the soviet union, and there is a much more continuous line from Deng to modern day China. So no, its not the same at all.
>Every time this is brought up you slink back to the shadows and wait a couple weeks before bringing up Afghanistan again
because you still can't admit what happened there and that this policy continues to the present day in the phillipines and israel as discussed in multiple threads.


Fidel Castro btw is also a shrewd leader and obviously hopes to do business with China, which is why he tactfully ignores that China was directly at war with Cuba in Angola for example, because Cuba is forced to do such things, because they are tiny in comparison.

Break out the caps locks again bro it makes you look even saner

>>18806
i don't give a shit about 'free speech', i've written countless times about the need to ban the tediously repetitive and uninteresting, which could quickly be refashioned to argue either for the banning of pro-Ukraine or pro-Russian posters as the case may be. (perhaps both - cut the thread down to my heart's desire: webms of aeroplanes fighting) but what i can stand even less than free speech is the posturing of the man who places cosmic importance on his own impotent pseudopolitics. one who imagines that the chief aim of the security services is to mess with the viewpoints of a man who does nothing with his life. anyone who cares to read posts rather than insert what he'd rather the poster had said can see this clearly.

or, to state more plainly: you do not support anyone in this war. those who make pro-american points on /leftypol/ do not support the americans, those who make pro-ukranian points do not support the ukranians, and those who make pro-russian points certainly do not support the russians. support is what one does, and making posts on the internet is not an action - it is the absence of one. there is no hope of any "ideological subversion" on /leftypol/ because leftypol does not really have an ideology at all. it makes no difference whether one impotently defends the pointless liberal pretenses of 'free speech', the fascist fantasies homoerotic mass slaughter, or any of the cheap 'socialist' fantasies built on a house of question marks and "so long as i don't have to do anything until after the revolution."
it is impossible to subvert the man who does nothing with his life, as we'll see by this post once again falling on deaf ears. only upon his deathbed will he realize, watching his life flash before him, that he is completely absent from it.

postscript: i retract my comment on 'dogs' and substitute 'slugs'. even the dimmest of Collies would surely have caught the use of the Oedipus complex as shorthand for psychological pathology. my mother is ancient and grappling with the onset of menopause but otherwise entirely psychologically acceptable for you to fuck. it might even make a good quip to claim to have done so - but alas, it is your own mother to which I referred, your own mother you merely wish to fuck (for you are nothing if not a man of inaction), and it is your own mother i will not fuck - for i have not yet determined on which chromosome a genetic predisposition to inaction is carried. (a task complicated, i'm sure you'd agree, by your possession of a rather non-standard number of those little molecules.)

tl;dr: foreign policy posturing is no substitute for actual organising, your opinions do not matter, and are stupid. not like dogs, or the section of furries who aren't engineers or computer programmers. oh, and the medium is the massage.

>>18809
sometimes i think about making a thread there for laughs.

>>18810
>Fan Fiction
YES I love how YOUR refusal to research ANYTHING outside of Afghanistan means that I must now do unpaid research work for your lazy fucking ass. Google "China funding Latin America" and you will come up with billions of links I don't have to prove a truism and something that is so self-evident anymore than I have to prove that humans need to breathe to continue living. Here I'll even throw in a pic I found in 3 seconds to get your dumbass started.

Notice how when the Pink Tide leaders got replaced they all took IMF loans to deliberately cripple their own economies (Moreno in Ecuador, Macri in Argentina, Anez in Bolivia) because China's financing was simply too good of an alternative and they needed a way to permanently cripple the ability of SocDem governments to fund improvements in social welfare by raising finance outside of Western parasitical institutions.

>because you can't admit what happened there
WHO? WHO THE FUCK REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT? I HAVE KNOWN CHINA HAS DONE THAT CRAP IN AFGHANISTAN IN THE 20th CENTURY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. I EVEN USED TO HATE CHINA AND BE AS RETARDED AS YOU BEFORE I WAS CONVINCED OTHERWISE. HELL I'LL EVEN GIVE YOU ONE BETTER: WHEN CHILEANS WERE FLEEING FROM PINOCHET CHINA CLOSED THE EMBASSY TO DENY THEM ASYLUM. SO I AM WELL AWARE OF MAOIST/DENGIST IDIOCY.

Does this mean I hate China today? NO because they've FUCKING CHANGED. The evidence was already clear from Hu Jintao who re-nationalized companies and exterminated a CIA spy ring, and proceeded to Xi, who destroyed the private tutoring sector and is cracking down on liberals within the party, and technology corporations, as well as tackling the issue of housing speculation (even though China has one of the largest home ownership rates in the entire WORLD) as well as re-emphasizing the Marxist credentials of party members by increasing the reading examination and ideological components for the application process. And that's just domestically! In terms of foreign policy they are light years away from Mao era bullshit!

Also, I'm not going to fucking link you pdfs and articles when you already totally ignore the ones I do link. Case in point:
>MUH ISRAEL
I sent you this image and proof weeks ago regarding Palestine. And you completely ignored it and now bring up Israel again as if it matters when China is sending their own medical teams to help Palestinians (find me ONE western state which would do the same - you fucking can't it's all NGOs and other shady orgs or pennies thrown at the UN for whatever failed initiative they have).

>MUH CAPS LOCK
I will caps lock all I want against scum like you.
<Fidel Castro btw is also a shrewd leader and obviously hopes to do business with China, which is why he tactfully ignores that China was directly at war with Cuba in Angola for example, because Cuba is forced to do such things, because they are tiny in comparison.
YOU EVEN CONTRADICT YOURSELF IN YOUR OWN POSTS. THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT CUBA HAS ALSO SWITCHED OUT FROM AN ANTI-CHINA STANCE DURING THE COLD WAR.
AND THEN YOU DEMAND PROOF FOR THEIR CHANGED RELATIONS! HOW DISINGENUOUS ARE YOU?
Not to mention how you have shifted from instead of just calling the credentials of Socialist China into question, you are now questioning the socialist credentials of FIDEL FUCKING CASTRO. KILL YOURSELF.

>>18813
>i don't give a shit about 'free speech'
He says while continuing to post in the thread arguing against a harder line being taken against state department talking points
OK BUDDY
You are the epitome of writing fluff with no substance. If anything you stated was sincerely held as your own perspective, then you wouldn't even have posted once in this thread. Get out or continue to ramble on pretending like no one can see past your lie.

>>18810
What are you even trying to argue here China had a retarded foreign policy since late Mao if you want to talk about the relations China has right now with Israel/Phillipines who do you bring up Afghanistan

>>18831
>against a harder line being taken against state department talking points
i have never advanced such an argument. what i have argued is that the reasons you and most others have for wanting a 'harder line' are a mixture of the arrogant and the inane. were you to simply say "ban it, because the same old talking points again and again are tedious and boring" i would have far less to say on the matter. though 'logically' one would have to defend against the allegation that the same old pro-Russia talking points are also tedious and boring, and I 'would' argue that the war thread is currently mostly boring, it's very open ended indeed whether i'd actually care to say anything on the topic.

to mangle mcluhan: the fluff is the substance. everything i've said, and crucially how i've said it, is either my sincere perspective or insincerity designed ultimately to illuminate that perspective. the base argument about foreign policy derangement and pretense is tedious and boring to me because i have made it many times. so, quite openly and sincerely, i had fun with it. people can see what they want to see - my hopes are twofold: that some will see the ridiculousness that i see before me and share in the humour of it, and that at least one person saw the callback in the subject field of >>18800 to a post i made a while ago in /itg/ entitled 'in lieu of art', a reflection on internet politics which was a much better, much bitterer post.

>>18830
>Google "China funding Latin America" and you will come up with billions of links I don't have to prove a truism
China providing some business post revolution is not China "funding the pink tide". The pink tide was a series of mass proletarian participatory movements that resulted in the various Venezuelas etc.

>WHO? WHO THE FUCK REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT?

https://leftypol.org/edu/res/8757.html this thread still exists on the board. Multiple people deny it. You live in a fantasy world. A chance that is you in that thread denying it.

>NO because they've FUCKING CHANGED.
so you keep saying, except, they continue to do the same thing in Israel, Saudi Arabia, the Phillipines, recently Kazahkstan, so I see very little evidence of it and only evidence to the contrary. Them providing loans regardless.

>MAOIST/DENGIST IDIOCY.
>Mao era bullshit!
your phrasing of it like this speaks for itself

>I sent you this image and proof weeks ago regarding Palestine
i've never seen this image before in my life. Regardless, them handing out some vaccine does not change the fact they have a longstanding, strong, economic and military relationship with Israel. "le international aid" (charity) is not socialism. Nice though it is.
>you are now questioning the socialist credentials of FIDEL FUCKING CASTRO
no i'm not.

>>18832
i was simply pointing out in the meta context of this thread that very many posters say anybody who says anything about china is a glowie who should be banned, meanwhile denying the glowing things China has done.

The underlying point being any bans handed out for "being glow" always have a sectarian ideological bent to them.

Look at the above poster? You want somebody who is that much of a liar and who has that little control of their emotions in charge of who gets banned? Nope.

You can now put your mind at ease, tank bro. Mods have basically just went full mask off and proved that this is a strictly pro-Russia board. Not communist or socialist mind you, I am sure they are more than happy to play freeze peach the next time a pollack decides to start a shit "debate me" thread. Just pro-Russian. And don't you heckin' dare post Putin monkey or else the resident Eurasian QAnon Janny will have another meltie and his feelings will be hurt!

>>18855
I wish, as it stands they still let anti-Russian propagandists and other Nazi swine run rampant on this site, likely due to the mods’ known anarchist sympathies

>>18835
You're just as prone to using dishonest tactics like using "Killing Hope" as evidence for China's involvement in Afghanistan when the evidence in that book is 90% NYT articles. Stick to your IRL union organizing, arguing on this forum is not a useful application of your talents.

>>18835
>China providing some business post revolution is not China "funding the pink tide".
BUSINESS IS NOT DEFICIT FINANCING YOUR RETARD.

Not even going to read the rest because you are already lying out your ass with the very FIRST sentence.
READ A FUCKING BOOK.
YOU DON'T WANT TO RESEARCH? CHOKE ON THIS PDF AND DIE BITCH.

<First, it reveals that market trends account for trade fluctuations but
fail to explain Chinese investment in, and some loan deals with, Ecuador as well as loans to Bolivia.
<Second, it demonstrates how these forms of funding provided alternatives to U.S.-led international institutions, enabling Rafael Correa and Evo Morales to steer away from Western influence. Third, it contends that four factors led to a cyclic reinforcement of Chinese economic interests and the rise of leftist ideology in Ecuador and Bolivia, namely: mutual complementarity between China’s demand for energy/natural resource supply diversification and Pink Tide development agendas; U.S.–China geopolitical competition for influence in Latin America; China’s experience in engaging with leftist governments from developing countries; and anti-Americanism shaping national identity in Ecuador and Bolivia.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0043820020965968

INB4 YOU NEVER RESPOND TO THIS EVER AND IGNORE IT JUST LIKE YOU DO ALL THE OTHER EVIDENCE THAT DESTROYS YOUR PATHETIC 20TH CENTURY VIEW OF CHINA.

>>18865
It’s not a dishonest tactic to quote a widely renowned anti imperialist book.

>>18868
Didn’t say shit about deficit financing. And China has done very well out of its investments.

Funny you accuse me of not replying when you actively state you will not reply to all the points made. I will reply when you admit the foreign policy continues to this day by contending with the examples given

>>18877
>Didn’t say shit about deficit financing.
<HURR DURR LET ME INTERJECT INTO THIS DISCUSSION WHERE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
Yeah great going genius way to show everyone how little you understand the topics you allegedly want to discuss.
I have responded to everything you have ever brought up. It is YOU who refuses to engage constantly and runs away with one sentence liners when caught out. I love how I have cited at least 3 different publications via images and links and you have brought NOTHING to the table besides your own opinions taken out of your ass.

China has helped Palestine way more than anyone on this board has or ever will.
China has helped Latin America way more than anyone on this board ever has or will.

It is YOUR western chauvinism that dismisses it all because they don't fit your dogmatic vision of socialism. Kill yourself you poser.

>>18931
>deficit financing
but it isn't deficit financing. Hilarious you actually believe simultaneously that China is developing productive forces by being capitalist but also that it is doing mass charity across the world and building the infrastructure of these places for free.

What you have quoted doesn't say what you claim it does, particularly the bit highlighted in red. Market trends not accounting for it does not make it deficit spending. In fact, the rest of what you quoted then goes on to explain:

"namely: mutual complementarity between China’s demand for energy/natural resource supply diversification and Pink Tide development agendas; U.S.–China geopolitical competition for influence in Latin America; China’s experience in engaging with leftist governments from developing countries; and anti-Americanism shaping national identity in Ecuador and Bolivia."

Again, non of this describes china "funding the pink tide" which was social movement lead and carried through.

Again, to be very clear, you think I didn't engage with the image showing LENDING to venezuela/ other place.

Not grants, not a slush fund, but lending, with interest. From 2005.

More favourable than the US perhaps. Is it socialist internationalism if Israel undercuts the UK in an oil infrastructure deal in Kazakhstan?

>I have responded to everything you have ever brought up.

no you havent, you said, in caps


>WHO? WHO THE FUCK REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT?

to which i posted:
https://leftypol.org/edu/res/8757.html this thread still exists on the board. Multiple people deny it. You live in a fantasy world. A chance that is you in that thread denying it.

to which you haven't responded.

You haven't responded to the claim that the pink tide was a series of mass proletarian participatory movements, which you have given no evidence of which were funded by China, to be clear, there is a distinction between the movement that comes to power and the eventual lending to government of that movement for infrastructure.

Your original claim was that china funded the pink tide.

No repsonse to any of that.

You did not answer this:

" Regardless, them handing out some vaccine does not change the fact they have a longstanding, strong, economic and military relationship with Israel. "le international aid" (charity) is not socialism. Nice though it is. "

except to say "China has done more for Palestine than anybody on this board"

which is 1) an ad hominem and 2) doesn't address the fact that some vaccines gifted don't on balance cancel out the flagrant and massive collaboration with israel, by china, which includes but is not limited to, building their largest port, a longstanding military allegiance, in places such as Afghanistan, which you in this thread claim to condemn, and military tech dealings as well.

>China has helped Latin America way more than anyone on this board ever has or will.
this is again an ad hominem, it doesn't matter at all who I am unless you are a radlib centering le genderqueer POC voices. I'm stating facts. But of course you rely on idpol.

its got nothing to do with Chauvinism, my analysis is that China has collaborated with the empire, which is a fundamentally unchauvinist belief.

>>18877
>It’s not a dishonest tactic to quote a widely renowned anti imperialist book.
It's dishonest because you were citing Killing Hope as evidence of Chinese collaboration with the US in Afghanistan while the chapter on in Killing Hope on Afghanistan made no such arguments.

>>19010
It does, and regardless, there are numerous other sources which confirm it.

This is something apparently "everyone has already accepted and condemned so why talk about it"

apparently not

>>19011
Can you quote specific paragraphs from Killing Hope's chapter on Afghanistan that allege China and the US collaborated?

>>19012
Here's the chapter for reference https://williamblum.org/chapters/killing-hope/afghanistan

>>19013
I found 2 references:
>Intervention in the Afghan civil war by the United States, Iran, Pakistan, China and others gave the Russians grave concern about who was going to wield power next door. They consistently cited these “aggressive imperialist forces” to rationalize their own intervention into Afghanistan, which was the first time Soviet ground troops had engaged in military action anywhere in the world outside its post-World War II Eastern European borders. The potential establishment of an anti-communist Islamic state on the borders of the Soviet Union’s own republics in Soviet Central Asia that were home to some 40 million Muslims could not be regarded with equanimity by the Kremlin any more than Washington could be unruffled about a communist takeover in Mexico.

>The CIA became the grand coordinator: purchasing or arranging the manufacture of Soviet-style weapons from Egypt, China, Poland, Israel and elsewhere, or supplying their own; arranging for military training by Americans, Egyptians, Chinese and Iranians; hitting up Middle-Eastern countries for donations, notably Saudi Arabia which gave many hundreds of millions of dollars in aid each year, totaling probably more than a billion; pressuring and bribing Pakistan – with whom recent American relations had been very poor – to rent out its country as a military staging area and sanctuary; putting the Pakistani Director of Military Operations, Brigadier Mian Mohammad Afzal, onto the CIA payroll to ensure Pakistani cooperation. 45

The first paragraph has no citation backing the evidence. The second paragraph has citation 45 which is
<45. Amongst the “Embassy Documents”, op. cit.: Classified CIA Field Report, 30 October 1979, vol. 30.
Citation 45 is referring to the bribing of the Pakistani general. So the chapter did allege Chinese involvement in Afghanistan, it did so without citing any evidence.

>>19016
perhaps it is so widely known to be true in anti imperialist circles he didn't consider it needed a reference.

Or it was a run on reference from the Robert Gates book from above, regardless, there are many other sources that confirm it, so he was correct write it

the thread in EDU has them all, many kindly provided by enraged dengoid who may or may not be in this thread

>>19006
>lending isn't deficit financing
GTFO
You don't even understand what you're talking about. This is not even political this is basic understanding of how economies work that you lack. If a Pink Tide government does not have the revenue on hand for an infrastructure or social programme they wish to implement, China giving them low interest loans is de facto deficit financing. The fact that you don't even understand this elementary school concept is testament to how fucking ill informed you are AND YOU STILL INSIST ON ENGAGING ON THIS SUBJECT MATTER EVEN THOUGH WITH EVERY POST YOU LET SLIP THAT DO NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND IT.
>waahhhh look at my one thread on this board no one goes to
Yeah it was literally one autist who as far as I can tell from a cursory inspection last posted back in 2021, real fucking damning evidence for "multiple people" denying China's mujaheddin involvement in the 20th century or did you not realize that the IP count in that fucking thread was super low with the majority of people agreeing with you? Again here you are being DISHONEST once again portraying one dissenter as a multitude or legion of people denying it despite having overwhelming support in the very thread you linked, which, let me again stress, was last posted in back in fucking 2021.
>They have a longstanding, strong, economic and military relationship with Israel.
Holy shit look at the schizophrenic positions you are trying to hold simultaneously. You can't state as your position:
<hurr durr China is only interested in Latin America for economic relationships/benefits (ignoring the ideological affinity and the fact that they increased lending only during Pink Tide governments)
and then also say
<actually trade relations are evidence for full support of Israel
PICK ONE. If trade relations with Israel are supposed to be a smoking gun for China's support of Israel then trade relations with Pink Tide countries is de facto the same. And if it's comparison you want, China's trade with LatAm topped $700 billion+ while their trade with Israel was pitiful at $9 billion. You know what country has more trade with China than Israel? FUCKING MEXICO, hardly a rich country.

Also nice job not even bothering to read the whole pdf and instead cutting up the already small summary I gave you so you can whine. Dishonesty to the max but I don't expect any different from you.

By the way do you not even understand that even the USSR traded with America at the height of the Cold War? Where is your proof for China funding Israeli gear utilized against Palestinians? Can you offer up ANY proof? NO YOU CAN'T BECAUSE CHINA DOESN'T DO THAT AND ISRAEL'S CUTTING EDGE WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT IS DONE BY A STATE OWNED COMPANY WHICH I CAN GUARANTEE THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW YOU FUCKING RETARD. Not to mention China is a net IMPORTER, not EXPORTER of arms because their military technology is far behind and they have to take whatever is being sold from other countries so they can upgrade their own capabilities. Again, nothing the USSR didn't do either during the interwar period cooperating with soon-to-be-Fascist Germany for advanced technology.

>>19028
>China giving them low interest loans is de facto deficit financing.
no its just low interest. Like I said, if Germany undercuts sweden to lend money to build something in Singapore is that now socialist internationalism? Lmao.

Also you literally just said that you reply to everything, you have now, for a third time not responded to this part:

"You haven't responded to the claim that the pink tide was a series of mass proletarian participatory movements, which you have given no evidence of which were funded by China, to be clear, there is a distinction between the movement that comes to power and the eventual lending to government of that movement for infrastructure. Your original claim was that China funded the pink tide."

>Yeah it was literally one autist
I have encountered more than that one person and I am also pretty certain it is you, because you post in an identical style, which anybody in that thread can see quite clearly if they go look.

>PICK ONE.
i don't have to, because AS I SAID, AND YOU IGNORED ENTIRELY, AFTER ACCUSING ME OF NOT RESPONDING TO YOUR POSTS the relationship with Israel and China is three fold 1) There is a longstanding miltiary allegiance, geopolitically, in places like Afghanistan, which again, you have apparently admitted and condemned, but can't seem to fathom this part of it. Another place is Nicaragua where they did this. 2) there is also trade in weapons tech between china and israel, 3) lastly there is bog standard financial trade, specifically, my position in regards to that, as discussed, over and over, most likely with you, is that the Israel situation with trade is unique, because the Palestinian liberation movement SPECIFICALLY AND FAMOUSLY asks people to boycott Israel.

So no, i don't have to pick one, because it is not at all the same. But you have the ability to think only in one dimension.

>China's trade with LatAm topped $700 billion+ while their trade with Israel was pitiful at $9 billion.
are you aware that Latin America comprises and entire continent and Israel 1 tiny country you utter fucking buffoon. What a completely fucking irrelevant piece of information.

>Also nice job not even bothering to read the whole pdf and instead cutting up the already small summary
i read exactly what you quoted, if anyone did the cutting up its you you dumb fuck.

>By the way do you not even understand that even the USSR traded with America at the height of the Cold War?
Yes, I do.

>Where is your proof for China funding Israeli gear utilized against Palestinians?
how many times do I need to fucking post the link the BDS website, which you yourself have obviously seen, which says the PLO considers virtually all Israelis good to be contributing to their opppression.

https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott

here is is again

"The Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC) calls for a boycott of Israeli and international companies that are complicit in violations of Palestinian rights. Virtually all Israeli companies are complicit to some degree in Israel’s system of occupation and apartheid.

but I am sure not the ones to do with weaponary..


Oh its okay because China only imports israeli arms, inflating the profits of israeli arms companies.. oh that is cool then…


now

BACK TO THE MAIN POINT OF THIS THREAD, YOU KNOW, THE META THREAD, ABOUT WHO SHOULD BE ABLE TO POST WHAT

you, people like you, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, dishonest retards who think they should be able to say who can say what and when and how, who have absolutely zero qualification to do so, and show a total lack of integrity literally all of the time, you are the reason we shouldn't have a super strict mod policy, because somebody like you will inevitbaly get in charge of it and attempt to make everyone as fucking retarded as you are

>>18794
>or some other deep seated belief
If you've been on ibs for a while you can easily pinpoint him as the archetypical contrarian faggot.

>>19028
Oh look at mr

>ooooh you always stop responding

not responding

>>18730
Fun fact, they also literally don't know how 4chan or imageboards actually work.
Have experience in this. Some retard on /pol/ threatened a mass shooting at a shopping mall on the day, posted images of his guns, timestamps, everything, so I fucking snitched to the police anonymously, not letting some fucking retard /pol/lack shoot up a bunch of innocent children and stuff.
Despite the tip was "anonymous" Feds were at my house, literally within 5 minutes, got out of the shower and my mum was like "uhh why are there car loads of federal police here?"
Now the most embarrassing fucking experience of my fucking life, talking a bunch of fucking feds about how /pol/ worked, how to contact the admins, the IRC chat etc, none of them got it. I pretty much died when one of them said "You actually use this site? It's terrible". In the weeks following the investigation and the case, these feds would constantly call me up asking how in fuck to even read the thread in the archives despite be explaining it to them a trillion fucking times.
Good news though, guy was literally caught and thrown in jail.
That said, my experience with it all was that Feds are actually fucking retarded and 100% do not understand 4chan, imageboards or how to use them at all.

>>19129
>>19128
Good job. You probably saved a lot of people. Brothers, mothers, children. Nice work.

Fuck Putin and Zelensky both.
~From US

>>19131
>no mention of NATO
bruh…
All the "fuck putin" fags have no answer to the 20+ years of constant stern warnings by US government officials not to do what the US has been doing for the past 14 years in Ukraine.
The US manufactured this shit. Putin and Zelensky are not even the main character of this shit.

>>19131

Z.

>>19131
Stunning and brave.

Sage is kind of low-key retarded huh

>>19330
>low-key
I think you don't understand what that word means.

>>19330
you are definitely high key retarded

>>19337
now now, don’t be mean to sage. he is only retarded sometimes.

>you, people like you, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, dishonest retards who think they should be able to say who can say what and when and how, who have absolutely zero qualification to do so, and show a total lack of integrity literally all of the time, you are the reason we shouldn't have a super strict mod policy, because somebody like you will inevitbaly get in charge of it and attempt to make everyone as fucking retarded as you are

Ding, look at the Ukraine thread, anyone who isn't a Putin cocksucker Vatnik on insane levels of Russian Neocon cope is getting banned for "Glowing".
Yep, Russia going full fucking Retard, making NATO support go the highest it's ever been, with the entirety of Europe rearming, is totally a fucking great position for the left.
Said it before, will say it again, too many "Socialists" here are simply anti-Western Chauvnists and are as blood thirsty as any MSNBC appearing DC Neocon. Many here unironically would have supported the Nazis in WW2 and shit on the Soviet Union for accepting Lend Lease.

>>18728
I think he is just an attentionfag sowing fbi.gov for (you)s

>>19352
>fbi.gov
dísc0rd

>>19354
When you're supporting children getting bombed because nothing more than edgy ass "FUCK AMERICA WOOO" then it's fucking chauvinism dipshit.

>>19350
>making NATO support go the highest it's ever been, with the entirety of Europe rearming, is totally a fucking great position for the left.
Confronting the western satan is great for the left. Western imperialism is the primary contradiction, pick up a piece of theory newer than lenin's time lmao illiterate faggot. If you aren't anti-Western then you're a ballless sissy.

>>19011
>regardless, there are numerous other sources which confirm it
Then you would use those sources instead of "killing hope" you stupid fucking cuck.
Where are your sources?

KILL YOURSELF

>>19019
Glow harder ultra you have nothing except newyorktimes to back you up

>>19373
If the mods here were actual communists they would have gotten rid of you by now

>>19374
literally already posted ITT retard learn to read, it is perhaps why you don't know Dengoid China = Mujihadeen

>>19006

"to which i posted:
https://leftypol.org/edu/res/8757.html this thread still exists on the board. Multiple people deny it. You live in a fantasy world. A chance that is you in that thread denying it.
"

here are a multitude of sources, half of them posted by idiot dengoids such as yourself, who hadn't bothered to read their own sources, and then screamed and shat when those sources actually confirmed what I was saying LMAO

>>19109
still has not responded LMAO

>>18721
might be just an impression, but i've had the feeling that /leftypol/ (the board) has gotten steadily worse since the start of the war. Lots of bad shitposting, shitflinging at the slightest pretense, and just a generally very low level of discussion. This has made me frequent the rest of the boards such as /edu/ which has been a pleasant experience, so that's a plus at the very least.

What do you comrades think? Was it always this bad? Am I overreacting?

>>19552
Nah it has. The Ukraine thread has sucked up all the posting but has become very dried up. There isn’t a lively debate or discussion in it really.

It’s been going downhill a while though

>>19552
I don't know about you, but all the witchcraft and occultism stuff as of recently is some of the most retarded shit I've seen on /leftypol/.

>>19557
>The Ukraine thread has sucked up all the posting but has become very dried up. There isn’t a lively debate or discussion in it really.
awww poor NATOcuck feels his voice isn't being heard. :( go to reddit, you can circlejerk how much you hate Putler and how EU/NATO is less bad than the evil autocrat and his asiatic hordes.

anglos are fucking panicking. the world order they've been crafting for decades is crumbling. suddenly your PMC position is under threat. You don't know what to do. well fuck you, you're gonna suffer like the rest of us. maybe then you'll stop being a dumb fucking lib and join the revolution.

>>19564
>maybe then you'll stop being a dumb fucking lib and join the revolution.
what revolution are you speaking of? the only shit that's going on in the Ukraine cyclical is praying to the VVS and worshipping the martyrdom of Coach Red Pill.

>>19564
>anglos are fucking panicking
Not who you're replying to, but I'm an anglo and I'm not panicking.
>be me
>get up
>go to work,
>come back
>have some dinner
>I can't stop thinking about a girl at work who I've fallen in love with
>can she tell? I'm thinking
>she chats to me
>but I feel so shy

It seems Ukraine is another sideshow, another think most people can do little about but go get a dopamine fix from backing side one side or other on social media.
FWIW I'm anti-Nato expansion. The deal was at the end of the Cold War it wasn't going to expand, but it has. And it's Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0 in terms of the Donbass region. Ofc people the Donbass are going to be pro-Putin if it means getting out of Ukraine, like Castro was pro- the USSR

>>19038
It's a thankless task shoveling through your bullshit. I certainly don't get paid for it so why should I invest so much effort in debunking things people can figure out are lies anyways with a mere 30 seconds of research? I took a lot of time off to focus on my own life and do my own things and only came back onto this forum today. The fact that you're attacking other posters supporting me in this thread as "me" proves that you are not the gigabrain you believe yourself to be.

Literally every single paragraph you lie, even when I pointed out you didn't even understand basic econ stuff you continue onwards pretending like you are knowledgeable in anything when in fact you're not even knowledgeable in terms of Afghanistan's politics as I'll make a quick point about that down here. If I had been arguing chemistry with a chemist and gotten the periodic table wrong I would have conceded but here you are continuing to kvetch as if you are at all qualified to have an opinion on anything.

>If Germany undercuts Sweden
Germany doesn't. To see an example of German deficit financing, just look at Greece. That's the "tender love and care" that is shown. What about America? They forced their puppet Ukraine to go through IMF structural adjustment. The era of quote unquote "state capitalist" experiments funded by the West as a bulwark against Communism is over. The very fact that the West didn't try to prop up Belarus as a pseudo-Yugoslavia to undermine Russia is a testament to this changed political reality. The Americans even forced Israel of all countries to reform in a neoliberal direction. "Aid" from the West today comes in the form of debt traps and military surplus.

Anyways this is yet another example of you lying and making scenarios up out of wholesale cloth. Did Germany ever "undercut" Sweden to fund Singaporean infrastructure? The answer is no but you would like the audience to pretend like it was yes so that you would have a "point".

>Because you post in an identical style,
Again lying because I never go to /edu/ since it's a dead board just like games hobby tech and everything else outside of /leftypol/ and /b/.

>There is a longstanding miltiary allegiance, geopolitically, in places like Afghanistan
Again making shit up. I acknowledge the Mujaheddin but here's a question for you: when America and the West invaded Afghanistan in the 21st century who did they rely on as contacts and allied support? Are you so stupid that you think the Taliban and Mujaheddin are the same thing? Are you also dumb enough to label China shipping food and humanitarian supplies over after America withdrew and seized their reserves "military cooperation with Israel", as if Israel is pro-Taliban? The Taliban's own spokesperson condemned having foreign relations with Israel. You bring forth no proof whatsoever of your allegations, you just state unsubstantiated conspiracies that betray your complete ignorance of what is actually going on in the region.

That's point 2 on another thing you lied about.

>LatAm vs. Israel is an unfair comparison!
Sure let's do country by country comparison then. Trade with Mexico according to China reached almost $90 billion in 2021. Mexico is infinitely poorer than Israel. This is already proof that China values their relations with LatAm much more than Israel and has provided much heavier financial support for assorted left wing movements there. Also, you state that you're aware of Soviet Union-American trade. Why do you not condemn one and condemn the other? Likewise without their support for Argentina the country would have been even more devastated than they already have been.

>I read exactly what you quoted.
Hilarious. I show you a study and you can't even be bothered to read it all. This is the "intellectual" who professes to be superior lmao. Yeah I'd say that you being banned is a good idea given that you can't even be bothered to read more than simple paragraphs before shitting out your "analysis". You accuse others of being
<stupid ignorant arrogant etc.
But your arrogance is unmatched. You lie with every post you make. You deliberately ignore arguments and you refuse to even take in good faith studies that I HAD TO PROVIDE FOR YOU because you refused to do research by yourself. In any other situation where only one person is providing research and the other is just stating their opinion, the one without any sources would have been laughed out of the room. But on this board you get to continue shitposting forever even despite not bringing up any research to support your claims. This is not "leading the horse to water and him not drinking", this is "me shoving a feeding apparatus in your mouth and you spitefully refusing to drink because you want your feelz to be greater than reality". I should have never even posted the study in the first place if you were going to be such an ungrateful bitch but of course it's because you're not serious in your arguments and you don't actually believe what you're saying, you just want to make me mad or whatever and instill doubt in others. Well congratz I took the bait but unfortunately having given you I don't know at least a couple months without any replies you weren't able to even add onto or build up a halfway convincing reply.

Let me give another refutation: the Philippine commies you have such a hard on for. These are the same guys cooperating with Radio Free Asia (known CIA outfit).

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/10/19/phil-o19.html

Even the Trotskyists are not stupid enough to fall for the joke that is the Philippine Communists. How come you never brought this up before? It's because you were testing arguments to deploy on left wing forums against China. You accuse others of nuance but you have never given China credit for anything ever and repeatedly condemn the country. It would be one thing if you were actively objectively neutral, but you attack it constantly as an imperialist power even though it has done more for the Left than anyone else on this board. Has everyone also forgotten that without China's support North Korea would be devastated?

Anyways this is my final reply because I'm finished arguing with shills. I'll take Castro's take on China being socialist any day over the nonsense you and the rest of the Western "left" peddle.

unironic warrantless self-importance schizo thread

I hope the complete inability to accurately settle on a definition of "glowie" ITT shows how stupid it would be to implement this.

>>20589
horrible rationale
to decide issues it is not necessary to get everyone together to sing kumbaya
things are always decided against some at the same time they are decided for some

>>20587
lmao it really took you three months to come back with this garbage?

>Germany doesn't. To see an example of German deficit financing, just look at Greece.
this literally has nothing to do with what I said you absolute buffoon. This is not answer to: "no its just low interest. Like I said, if Germany undercuts sweden to lend money to build something in Singapore is that now socialist internationalism? Lmao."

I did not say Germany was doing tender love and care to anybody.

>Anyways this is yet another example of you lying and making scenarios up out of wholesale cloth. Did Germany ever "undercut" Sweden to fund Singaporean infrastructure? The answer is no but you would like the audience to pretend like it was yes so that you would have a "point".

holy fucking shit, it was a hypothetical remark, are you really going to tell me that large imperial powers don't outbid each other for third world contracts? Are you insane?

you also STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS, FOURTH TIME ASKING NOW:

"You haven't responded to the claim that the pink tide was a series of mass proletarian participatory movements, which you have given no evidence of which were funded by China, to be clear, there is a distinction between the movement that comes to power and the eventual lending to government of that movement for infrastructure. Your original claim was that China funded the pink tide."

>Again lying because I never go to /edu/ since it's a dead board just like games hobby tech and everything else outside of /leftypol/ and /b/.
oh well.. you said it so it must be true.

>Are you so stupid that you think the Taliban and Mujaheddin are the same thing?
the taliban came fromt he Mujihadeen. Please dispute it lmao.

> Are you also dumb enough to label China shipping food and humanitarian supplies over after America withdrew and seized their reserves "military cooperation with Israel"
but that isn't what happened you fucking dumbass, you already acknowledged the mujihadeen, which china backed, with weapons, training and military infrastructure, which israel was also doing.

>You bring forth no proof whatsoever of your allegations, you just state unsubstantiated conspiracies that betray your complete ignorance of what is actually going on in the region.
I have linked an entire thread full of sources, now two or 3 times in this thread, you have just spewed fanfiction and cope.

here is the links i linked AGAIN: >>19416

>Mexico is infinitely poorer than Israel. This is already proof that China values their relations with LatAm much more than Israel
so the fuck what. Nobody cares, don't care, didn't ask, and haven't stated. What is a FACT which you cannot bring yourself to admit is that china is still currently building israels largest port, and continues to have a military tech trade relationship with them, and has at various different points, such as in afghanistan, supported their side in actual military conflicts, them giving loans to latin america doesn't change that, even if it is a competitive interest rate.

>Also, you state that you're aware of Soviet Union-American trade. Why do you not condemn one and condemn the other?
because the palestinian liberation movement asks countries not to trade with israel. There is no american liberation movement that asks people not to trade with America.

>Yeah I'd say that you being banned is a good idea given
kek and there it is

>moooods pllllz

shut the fuck up you baby

>weird ex website article
kek, and there is is again, siding with a trot paper that says the Phillipine Communist Party was working with the CIA during the 70's, with no source, when the Phillipine Communist Party were actually at war with Ferdinand Marcos, who was installed by the CIA and backed by America during that time.

Oh wow, they did a radio interview, that must mean they are somehow more CIA backed then Duterte, Marcos, etc, who they are literally at war with, and who literally do US military drills, Marcos literally was heliocoptered out of the Phillipines when he was ousted by a popular uprising, by the CIA, who gave him shelter in Hawai

>You accuse others of nuance but you have never given China credit for anything ever
I have multiple times said they are good at building infrastrucutre, good on the environment, and have gone to lengths to debunk zenz posting and such, you are just a nutjob who thinks in black and white

>Has everyone also forgotten that without China's support North Korea would be devastated?
china have signed treaties which call for north korea to disarm

>>20690
>3 months
No it took me 5 mins after coming back the 3 months were all yours and like I said I'm disappointed that you came up with so little.

>Germany isn't deficit financing countries it was just a hypothetical
Ok so you admit that you don't even have a real concrete example of this occurring thanks for admitting that your argument has no basis in reality.
>Large imperial powers don't outbid each other for third world contracts?
Do you even know what the IMF is? Do you even know what the World Bank is? How can you be this ignorant - oh that's right you don't understand anything concerning economics and how it has been a deliberate strategy of the American order to keep countries underdeveloped and in poverty no wonder. When America wants a contract signed they get their comprador stooge into power and get it done that way. There is no such thing as American "competition" for development anymore. China is single-handedly providing all avenues for development because the West is not even bothering to compete like they did the past and is fine sitting back and blowing up anyone they don't like or subjugating them to unplayable debt burdens.

>There is a distinction between the movement that comes to power and the eventual lending to government of that movement for infrastructure.
If you read the study you would realize that the study stated that China only accelerated lending after relevant left wing governments came into power but that's what you get for being illiterate. Here is one key sentence from one of the very first few paragraphs:
>I thus argue that China’s economic engagement with Ecuador and Bolivia
deepened disproportionately from 2005 to 2014 due to the simultaneous rise of leftist governments in these states at the time
>which took place in a geopolitical environment conducive to China’s rise.

>You said it so it must be true.
Massive projection from someone who has not cited a single third party source and has brought forth zero proof of any claim besides the Afghanistan intervention during the Cold War by Mautism (which we agree on so is not even a point of contention or argument between the two of us).

>Please dispute it lmao.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/28/northern-afghanistan-once-kept-out-taliban-why-has-it-fallen-so-quickly-this-time/
I remember even back during 2001 the Northern Alliance was mentioned the remnant of the US-allied Mujaheddin who were cooperating.

>So the fuck what. Nobody cares, don't care, didn't ask, and haven't stated.
Let me remind you of your own post
>>19038
<are you aware that Latin America comprises and entire continent and Israel 1 tiny country you utter fucking buffoon. What a completely fucking irrelevant piece of information.
implying that you mistakenly believed that by switching to a one to one country comparison Israel would come out on top which I refuted by providing the example of Mexico. This is why I don't like talking to you you literally ask for evidence for a point, I provide it, then you ignore it and pretend you never tried to contest that fact, and then attack me for even bothering to try to help clarify. It's so tiresome.

>weird ex website article
You haven't even read it. Know how I know you haven't? because this:
<says the Philippine Communist Party was working with the CIA during the 70's
is not in the link. The WSWS made no such claim in that article. You're not even reading and continuing to shitpost. In fact that article condemns Mao's right turn but you didn't even pick up on that since you're so busy trying to condemn WSWS as an unreliable source despite the fact that the evidence I brought to the table showing their real confirmed CIA collaboration in the present day also condemns 20th century Maoist foreign policy.

>You are just a nutjob who thinks in black and white
No that'd be you because you can't even accept the nuance of how much more funding and investment China has in Latin American countries compared with Israel proving how little they care about Israel in particular. I accept 100% your condemnation of China's cooperation with Mujaheddin in Afghanistan and their retarded foreign policy for much of the 20th century. But on the other hand you can't accept the 21st century. You always try to drag the conversation it back to the 20th despite us agreeing on the 20th because you know you have a limited knowledge of the current situation and cannot justifiably condemn modern China under Xi.

>China have signed treaties which call for north korea to disarm
China literally has a military defense pact with North Korea (China-North Korea Treaty of Friendship, Co-operation and Mutual Assistance ) that is active to this day. You do realize if South Korea and the Americans would ever be stupid enough to invade that it's the PLA that's going to come to bail out North Korea right? See why should I even put effort into responding when you are a literal child who doesn't even know basic facts? How could you possibly miss the fact that China is the only country in the entire world that has pledged to defend North Korea in case of an attack?

Like the example I stated before I left this board: you are a chemistry student who doesn't even know the periodic table but still feels the burning desire to argue with the professor. Stop. It might have been funny at first but now it's just sad.

>>20788
">Germany isn't deficit financing countries it was just a hypothetical
Ok so you admit that you don't even have a real concrete example of this occurring thanks for admitting that your argument has no basis in reality.
>Large imperial powers don't outbid each other for third world contracts?
Do you even know what the IMF is? Do you even know what the World Bank is? How can you be this ignorant - oh that's right you don't understand anything concerning economics and how it has been a deliberate strategy of the American order to keep countries underdeveloped and in poverty no wonder. When America wants a contract signed they get their comprador stooge into power and get it done that way. There is no such thing as American "competition" for development anymore. China is single-handedly providing all avenues for development because the West is not even bothering to compete like they did the past and is fine sitting back and blowing up anyone they don't like or subjugating them to unplayable debt burdens. "


in answer to all of that: yes germany was hypothetical, however, it is patently obvious large imperial nations compete and undercut each other for contracts, here is an example

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/China-wins-on-Haifa-port-but-fights-with-US-for-the-future-analysis-610510

https://www.ft.com/content/7ebc8930-2731-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0

here is another

>If you read the study you would realize that the study stated that China only accelerated lending after relevant left wing governments came into power
precisely, so they did nothing to help them get into power. Which is what I said, you get things entirely backwards.

>Massive projection from someone who has not cited a single third party source and has brought forth zero proof of any claim besides the Afghanistan intervention
so I have brought proof of claims then you are just randomly deciding these aren't important, you then claim we have both agreed its not important, only to deny the ongoing implications

>my source
>the washington post

>implying that you mistakenly believed that
no it just makes no difference at all to the fact the PLO have asked specifically for a boycott of israel which China is flying in the face of.

literally not one iota of difference

>You haven't even read it. Know how I know you haven't? because this:
<says the Philippine Communist Party was working with the CIA during the 70's
is not in the link. The WSWS made no such claim in that article.

my apologies, it actually says CCP, not CPP. So what it actually says is:

> Over the course of the 1970s, the CCP worked closely with the CIA and US State Department in their common opposition to Moscow.

which I agree, is true. But you don't think so.

>But on the other hand you can't accept the 21st century. You always try to drag the conversation it back to the 20th
i talk about israel in the present day, as well as the phillipines, in the present day, also history matters.

>but still feels the burning desire to argue with the professor.
and you are the proffesor in this instance eh?

>>20803
Again you shift the goalposts.
To recap, we went from:
>The West deficit finances development of 3rd world nations
to
>The West competes for contracts for 3rd world nations
to
>The West competes for contracts for 1st world nations
When did Australia or Israel (the two examples you have posted with your links for contract bidding) become poor or 3rd world or non-Western aligned?

Again this is why I don't like responding because every time you are forced to concede you fall back on another angle and pretend that was your original argument as if nothing happened.

But for the record, even accepting this goalpost shift, when something is strategic the US just bulldozes anyone they want to get it done even among allies, like they did with AUKUS destroying France's successful contract "outbid" by getting their puppet Scott Morrison to help scupper the submarine deal:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58592613
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-59113710

>So they did nothing to help them get into power
Huh? Did I ever claim the PLA military overthrew Latin American democracies to install Pink Tide candidates? What are you smoking?
I said China FUNDED the Pink Tide governments (which I have stressed repeatedly from the very beginning, FUNDED) by providing financing for their welfare and development initiatives and not leaving them at the mercy of the IMF and World Bank. Morales, Correa, Kirchner and the rest would never have been able to be re-elected if they didn't have alternative sources of financing to finance their programmes. If China only unlocks this financing when a left-wing government in LatAm comes into power what do you think that suggests about their political outlook? Do you understand the point yet or are you still enjoying playing ignorant?

>PLO asks for boycott
I forgot to point this out, but the PLO is not even socialist. In any case I could just throw Hamas thanking China back at you as if any of this means anything.

Cuba trades with Israel as well.
So you have chosen to prioritize national liberation organizations over the actual survival of socialist states, some "socialist" you are.

The USSR traded with the US which killed and continues to kill millions more people than the Zionist scum could ever dream of. This is your chauvinism at work again. For all your talk of nuance you use minor trade with Israel (again, China trades more with MEXICO of all places) to condemn China as a whole when other socialist states do the same thing and not only trade with Israel but also trade with the US which is a million times worse (Vietnam and Laos).

China votes for Palestinian nationhood at the UN and every time Israel launches a military operation they condemn it.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220324-china-denounces-israels-illegal-settlements-and-urges-un-to-focus-on-palestine/
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/why-has-china-emerged-as-leading-critic-of-israel-over-gaza-analysis-668654
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2001/Aug/16913.htm

>which I agree, is true.
Ah so you finally read the WSWS article.
>But you don't think so.
And it turns out you still can't read. Here is my previous post painstakingly pointing out that the WSWS condemned Maoist China
>>20788
<In fact that article condemns Mao's right turn but you didn't even pick up on that since you're so busy trying to condemn WSWS…[which] also condemns 20th century Maoist foreign policy.
Turns out I do agree with you on the 20th century and have stated so multiple times which you still have not acknowledged.

>>20804
No. Professors at least get paid. To extend the analogy to reality, I'm actually the unpaid student teaching assistant pissed off at you shitting all over a paper and turning it in for me to mark.

>>20820
You tore Sage to shreds. I don't think he'll be coming back to this thread.