I don’t get it. Five years ago we were told this girl was going to save pop music. She made an album where she blended art pop with trap, industrial and dark ambient. She was single-handedly usurping the control if the major labels. She is also extremely socially conscious and leftist, basically the zoomer Joan Baez. Now she’s only released one song in the past two years and it’s bland as hell. Why
>>10433>She is also extremely socially conscious and leftistBillie Eilish is pro-Israel FYI. But that's not surprising given her brother and parents' DNC connections.
At least her "friends" Denzel Curry and Kehlani have made posts in support of Palestine.
>>10437She and Finneas haven't said a single word about Gaza despite other artists who are far less politically outspoken doing so.
Her family is VERY tight with the Biden Administration to the point where she performed at the DNC back in 2020 (in case everyone forgot).
The "zoomer Joan Baez"/"zoomer John Lennon" stuff was all a ploy by the media in order to market her. She literally marched for BLM surrounded by armed security and in a highly gentrified part of LA too (meaning: away from the much larger protests). Then her brother goes on TV and starts stanning Kamala Harris, an actual cop.
>>10433Her actual rise to fame is straight out of a fucking novel.
Basically, in the mid 2000s the music industry faced a huge slump. Record sales were way down. Different factions of the music industry began to fight with one another to find ways to stabilize this crisis. Here comes this guy from Apple who was the co-creator of iTunes. He comes up with the concept of music streaming back in 2007. It's largely suggested that Big Tech could take over control of the music industry from the major labels.
Fast forward to 2015. Billie Eilish records Ocean Eyes in her brother Finneas' bedroom and they put it on SoundCloud. Finneas' manager is affiliated with Interscope Records and is able to get Billie signed to an artist development company (AKA industry plant greenhouse) called Platoon, which was created by the same co-creator of iTunes and was directly linked to Apple Music. Platoon "incubates" Billie into the perfect artsy-fartsy edgy pop star.
Billie starts releasing a lot of music in the upcoming years and gets a ton of streams on streaming platforms. Apple Music astroturfs her career every step of the way in order to ensure her imminent success. She gets a ton of promotion throughout the entire year of 2018 including a documentary on her album's creation which was, shocker, made specifically for Apple TV. Her album is released in spring 2019, it becomes a worldwide success just as planned. She wins a bunch of Grammys and an Oscar. A total fairytale story.
But the reality is much, much darker. Billie was set up from day one to be a "Bonapartist" figure for Apple, or music streaming services in general. Spotify was also promoting her heavily. One of her major "selling points" that the media emphasized again and again was how Billie was always at odds with her label (Interscope) and how she would always outsmart the old industry players. This was entirely to set up the narrative that a legitimate artist who wasn't a meme or niche act could have a successful career thanks to music streaming with minimal help from the label, and that streaming made labels obsolete.
The thing is, Platoon behaves like a label in all ways except for one: they allow the artist to keep their masters. This is hella important, because streaming platforms need to get approval from whomever owns the masters in order to put the music on their platforms. If the artist owns their masters and doesn't have to go through a label, streaming services can nab the music free of charge/hassel. Not to mention Apple Music would certainly give priority to artists incubated at Platoon, which Apple now owns.
TL:DR – Billie Eilish's entire music career was astroturfed by streaming services so Big Tech could take over control of the music industry from the major labels.
>>10458You have to look at the context though. Billie was planted around the same time SoundCloud rap was becoming a major cultural force. The public truly believed an artist making music in their bedroom or basement could become super-famous thanks to the internet in a completely organic matter because that's what appeared to be happening with all those dudes who made it big off of SoundCloud.
>>10451She released two fragrances within the past two years.
As someone who used to work in fragrances, I can assure you: the only reason pop stars come out with a new perfume is if their records sales aren't living up and they need a quick buck to satisfy the label. I wouldn't be surprised if Eilish is signed to a 360 deal (which was practically invented at Interscope) and the label is making her pay up since her sophomore album didn't sell as well.
>>10489>but at least with Spotify small creators can potentially earn moneyStreams are pocket change. Artists keep complaining Spotify doesn't pay them enough for a reason.
Also, playlisting is a huge factor when it comes to how many streams you get.
>>10465>a legitimate artist who wasn't a meme or niche act could have a successful career thanks to music streaming with minimal help from the label,It’s interesting, because one could argue music streaming has made it so pop music overall mainly appeals to niches. Beyoncé and Taylor Swift are probably the last two universal pop acts.
In the 90s there were a ton of one-hit wonder novelty acts. We all use to dance to Cotton Eyed Joe or the Scatman song in gym class as kids. But that was just a small portion of the music that came out in that decade. Now it seems like every other new artist who charts on Billboard for the first time is a novelty act. Doesn’t help either when TikTok is the main music platform.
>>10465I wonder what Eilish’s response would be if musicians decided to unionize specifically to fight back against Apple and Spotify.
Would her loyalty to her sugar daddies outweigh her supposed leftism?
>>10437Isn’t John Kerry a master at soft power international relations?
Really makes you think…
>>10514The difference is, Denzel is pretty open about the fact his brother was murdered by cops and about all the racism/anti-Blackness he faced growing up in Miami.
Eilish meanwhile is a known gentrifier who used to culture vulture heavily and has made disparaging remarks about Black artists.
>>10700>banks won’t allow you to buy a houseHome owning is a bourgeois condition.
>Spotify and Apple Music work the sane way where you don’t pay for vinyls or CDs but pay for a subscription. They own, you pay rent.Just pirate the music and burn it on a disk.
>>10761I'm
>>10758 so not a good resource for this but definitely check out FKA Twigs if you haven't gotten into her yet. Caprisongs not as much for that style of singing, but her albums and EPs for sure.
>>10758For me, it's a combination of her weak vocals but also how she's such a try-hard when it comes to trying to sound edgy, like she's trying to do the Lingua Ignota thing where she wants to combine harsh industrial-sounding or dark ambient instrumentals with melodic angelic vocals. But it all sounds so contrived.
As for Finneas, well if you saw my posts in the thread on music sampling you already know I'm biased given that a lot of what I listen to is hip hop produced by artbros, but I can safely say Finneas is overall a meh-tier producer. He's an industry guy so he knows exactly how to make critic bait and appease his overlords but he's just not very innovative. Kanye West has been a more innovative producer than him if we're talking about mainstream pop music.
>>10763people mostly just want pop stars that they want to fuck
most anyone can be trained to sing, and songwriters and producers exist for the artistic aspect
>>10764>For me, it's a combination of her weak vocals but also how she's such a try-hard when it comes to trying to sound edgy, like she's trying to do the Lingua Ignota thing where she wants to combine harsh industrial-sounding or dark ambient instrumentals with melodic angelic vocals. But it all sounds so contrived.This is the biggest thing that turns me off from her music. It's "dark" inasmuch as mass appeal permits it to be. I think Billie has been able to tap into that market so successfully partially because she herself is not very passionate about music, whether her own or created by others. Finneas a bit more musically curious, but comes off somewhat opportunistic. Like most people, they've been enculturated by the most mainstream pop music since birth and not much else, now they make music of their own but with a "dark side" whose boundaries are hemmed in by their own limited knowledge base and, in Finneas' case IMO, an eye to what trends and sells well. Lingua Ignota is an intense comparison to make, but if Eilish's music was a lot more keen on stuff like menacing, glitchy production, utilizing noise, or dissonance in melody or harmony alongside the breathy soprano vocals, it'd be easier to take the darkness seriously. Plenty of artists have gotten money, notoriety, and critical acclaim from fusing dark or alienating sounds with pop sensibilities so it's not like she has to be Ramleh or it's poser shit. Being a "dark" artist while insisting on operating within the parameters of the industry core just kneecaps your quality from the start. If you want to be a mainstream pop act, it's better to have little pretense about what it is you really do.
>>10766Happy to help. Enjoy :)
>>10767Keep in mind, Finneas is a technician, which is exactly what industry people love. If you've ever heard his solo work you'd probably cringe, since most of it sounds identical to mid 2000s adult contemporary garbage.
>Lingua Ignota is an intense comparison to make, but if Eilish's music was a lot more keen on stuff like menacing, glitchy production, utilizing noise, or dissonance in melody or harmony alongside the breathy soprano vocals, it'd be easier to take the darkness seriously.Exactly, and her being a mainstream pop act from day one (incubated at an Apple-affiliated artist development company, signed to a major label with only a few SoundCloud songs to her name, very little previous musical training) means she lacks the same creativity or subversiveness you see in the underground or in industrial/noise subcultures.
>Being a "dark" artist while insisting on operating within the parameters of the industry core just kneecaps your quality from the start. If you want to be a mainstream pop act, it's better to have little pretense about what it is you really do.To be fair, there was a time in the 90s when edgy artists like NIN and Marilyn Manson had a good amount of mainstream success, but that bird has already flown.
>>10771>>she herself is not very passionate about music, whether her own or created by others.>What makes you assume this?I don't doubt that Billie likes her music and performing it, enjoys the creative process, and gets some catharsis out of it. I say she doesn't seem passionate about music for a few reasons.
(1) Her sound and influences are extremely average. It all comes from very popular music that someone born in the early 2000s would hear on top 40 and pop stations throughout their life. This demonstrates an incurious and complacent mindset towards music. It's not her age because my music friends and I were more knowledgeable and eclectic when it came to music in high school than Billie at the same age by orders of a magnitude.
(2) I don't get the impression she's ever animated by a profound need for musical creation or expression. She's yet to seriously learn an instrument. Her brother to his credit took up music production. She's a famous musician because, well, it's cool to be one, isn't it? Unlike most people who entertain the fantasy, her family had the connections to give her a shot at it.
(3) Neither sibling seems to have even remotely what could be called "sophisticated ear" for tune in my view. Their chord progressions and melodies are on par with the predictability and blandness of any other run-of-the-mill pop song. They almost always go to the chord or note you most expect to hear next. Some predictability can a huge, huge asset in music, but there's such a thing as too much.
Compare the choral music in
>>10764 with a song from FKA Twigs debut album in vid rel. Billie essentially sings some minor chords (the first chord in the bar is technically a major seventh) that first resolve to the dominant (don't let the jargon confuse you, this is very, very, standard stuff), which then repeat but instead move to a dominant 7 at the end of the line on "heaven" and then "gods" to evoke an otherworldly, majestic vibe with an unexpectedly flat chord from outside the scale (a common compositional technique; common =/= necessarily bad). It's by-the-numbers "angelic chorale" with a calculated, mawkish twist.
Twigs has a different approach. She sings parallel perfect fourths over a drone and the vocals become slightly more polyphonic as the song goes on, all common features of real medieval liturgical music (parallel harmony, perfect fourths, drones, and polyphony). Perfect fourths are super common in modern music, but it's highly unusual to hear them in parallel harmony like this, which turns a usually consonant interval into a weakly dissonant one. This creates not just a sense of dissonance, but also some intrigue and ambiguity since perfect fourths being "perfect" are neither major nor minor. Being that we are now centuries from medieval musical traditions, their techniques can sometimes sound exotic and mysterious to us. Ultimately it makes for a fresher, more dynamic take on the "angelic choir" sound.
>INB4 misogyny/ageism allegationsI love Kate Bush and Fiona Apple, both of whom debuted around 18 years old with great records they wrote and composed themselves.
Billie's a dabbler, not (yet?) a creative. I don't hate her personally or as a musician. I've just seen every facet of her shtick done much better by many other artists to be impressed so far.
>>10776Yeah, and one thing I notice is how in interviews Billie and Finneas spend most of the time talking about their personal lives and what it's like working together as siblings. Compare that to when more established producers are interviewed and you'll notice how they come off as far more cultured than expected and talk almost entirely about insider musician stuff.
>Her sound and influences are extremely average. It all comes from very popular music that someone born in the early 2000s would hear on top 40 and pop stations throughout their life. This demonstrates an incurious and complacent mindset towards music. She's talked about listening to jazz before but in all honesty the kind of jazz she's influenced by is VERY basic stuff, like Johnny Mathis or something.
>I don't get the impression she's ever animated by a profound need for musical creation or expression. She seems far more interested in meeting her favourite rappers and fashion designers than the actual music. Finneas comes off as an ego maniac who's primarily in it for his own ego.
>her family had the connections to give her a shot at it.What's also interesting is how her uncle is a former member of Congress and her family has political connections as well as entertainment industry ones. Makes A LOT of sense that she would get acclaim for being "socially conscious" or specifically appeal to the white liberal crowd as a kind of Gen Z saviour.
>Neither sibling seems to have even remotely what could be called "sophisticated ear" for tune in my view. Their chord progressions and melodies are on par with the predictability and blandness of any other run-of-the-mill pop song. They almost always go to the chord or note you most expect to hear next. Some predictability can a huge, huge asset in music, but there's such a thing as too much.I listen to a lot of avant-garde and "artsy" stuff (not to sound pretentious) and I love it when the music deliberately sounds chaotic and off-the-wall to the point where it makes your ears bleed or causes you to go "WTF is this???". I don't think anyone will listen to Billie's work and say: "I DON'T GET THIS". It's very formulaic. At least Twigs sounds more whimsical and unpredictable.
>>10780Good points. I've seen a few of their interviews and definitely noticed they only seem to really talk about their personal lives and don't get into substantive music discussion.
>Compare that to when more established producers are interviewed and you'll notice how they come off as far more cultured than expected and talk almost entirely about insider musician stuff.And this is a hallmark of great artists.
>>10782Try this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOlAd5bG_Zk Here’s a real subversive artist, even though her politics seem a little too right-ish.
https://www.electronicbeats.net/astrid-gnosis-feature/Basically Billie wishes she was Gnosis.
>>11365Too little too late.
Even Biden is calling for a ceasefire now (in theory, not in practice obviously), namely because paying for Israel's war is too expensive and he'd rather see that money go to Ukraine to kill Russians.
>>11667100% pure pandering to the vinylheads.
Every single thing this girl does is calculated. She's smart since she knows where the clout is.
>>11686I saw that she said she intends for the album to be a whole experience, or something along those lines. My first instinct is this is how big artists game the system now; just racking up more streams than if they'd done the listeners' work for them and highlighted the standouts. Taylor Swift just proved the viability of that strategy—over 300 million streams on her 31-song double album release in 24 hours with no promotional singles. "My album is too artistic to not be listened to as a complete work" is gimmicky bullshit. Big, "artsy" pop musicians have released singles countless times before: Bjork, Radiohead, David Bowie, Kendrick Lamar, Aphex Twin, et al. Non-pop musicians do it too: Swans, King Gizzard, even Throbbing Gristle put out singles in the 70s and 80s. The list goes on and on. The no-singles release has its roots in the surprise album drop trend that started like a decade ago (I think it was Beyonce's self-titled?). It made a big splash the first few times, but it stopped being "buzzworthy" once all the other big pop artists started doing it.
>>12039If I paid $200 to see TayTay I'd know I was going to see an epic concert even if her music is hella bland.
Can't say the same about Eyelash. I saw footage of her shows from 2019 and they looked incredibly dull.
>>11799Not at all. Madonna at her peak was shocking in a way that scared the establishment shitless. Her videos were always being banned from MTV because they rustled too many jimmies with religious imagery, sex, etc.
Billie is "shocking" in a way that makes the establishment praise her, because they're impressed that a little white girl has it in her to be edgy. Basically, "awww how cute!".
>>12214On a similar token, Billie doesn't really seem to invent trends as much as she follows them. In 2018 she had the image of a SoundCloud rapper, which is what was popping at the time. Now that 90s and Y2K nostalgia are big it makes sense as to why she'd use that to her advantage too.
>>10465>streaming made labels obsoleteNeofeudal ownership and rents extraction means bourgeois competition is irrelevant
>Billie was plantedPodpeople
>>12225I see. Could you elaborate?
>>12226Which is why I have to respect Madonna even though I agree with most of the criticism levied at her from cultural theorists like bell hooks and such. At least Madonna was quite sophisticated in how she shocked people. Eyelash just doesn't seem to have the intellect to pull something like that off, so every time she tries to "shock" people it always comes off as immature and cliché.
>>12331>vote like your life depends on itAh, yes, Mr. Biden, my one vote is a great contribution to society, I can definitely change the tides of history by being an isolated voter whose vote is like a spit in an ocean.
Why do people believe in this bullshit? Electoralism is such an obvious scam it's not even funny.
>>12549More like, Eyelash and TayTay are beefing over who's doing the better numbers. Billie has thrown shade at Taylor in several recent interviews and her manager made snarky tweets which mentioned Taylor explicitly.
TBH I think Billie's popularity is on the wane and she knows it. No one gives a shit about her anymore. If Kendrick dropped a full album next week you can be sure it would do phenomenal numbers because people see him as an interesting artist.
>>10433>Five years ago we were told this girl was going to save pop music.Propaganda.
All the hype around her was a ploy to promote music streaming as others on here have said.
Now she’s pushing vinyl to cover up this fact.
>>12610People are losing interest in her. It's not just because she dropped an album only a few weeks after Beyoncé and TayTay did but also because no one wants to hear a sad white girl whisper into a mic anymore.
Between 2013-2021ish pop music was very low-tempo, dark, and melancholy. Distorted 808s and eerie synths were commonplace (think: trap, SoundCloud rap, all the pop singers who sounded like Lorde or Sia during that time). Now, that style of music already sounds dated and no one wants it anymore. Billie Eilish was very much a part of that wave and she's stuck in it. The Weeknd doesn't make that style of music anymore. 21 Savage raps over soul samples that sound like they were made by The Alchemist now and has become more socially conscious. Jazz rap is fashionable. Snoop, Nas, and Common are doing better numbers than SoundCloud dweebs. The reason Taylor Swift and Beyoncé are selling like hotcakes is because both of them are universal pop stars whose music appeals to a universal audience and can both put on epic live shows with all sorts of bells and whistles. Anyone who's seen Billie live will know she's awful at performing and can barely stay on-key. The only reason she's still around is because the machine she has is huge.
>>12968>>12969Jain was France's Lorde.
I'm upset it took her so long to blow up in America and she had to do it with a meme.
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