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/music/ - Music

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How would music sampling work under socialism, given that intellectual property laws wouldn't exist?
562 posts and 26 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


Based. Fuck IP.


>inb4 Chinaboo comes in here claiming this case would be justified if it happened in China


Such a case would not exist in the perfect nation of communist china


Because of course it wouldn't.


Has to be an Onion article.


Someone be a trooper and post what Benjamin Tucker said about patents in this video’s comments section.


>Sophie from Tumblr is probably white and already has a steady income if she's spending her time making things for Etsy. She requires the bourgeois state to enforce IP because she believes she's entitled to not have to work like the rest of us. I have no desire to defend her even if UO or Shein or whatever copies her designs.

The difference between "Sophie" and all the rappers you listen to is power imbalances. In the latter cases you're talking about musicians with less power being sued by musicians (or labels) with more power. In the case of the former you're talking about a small producer of art who gets her designs stolen by a major corporation with lots of power. Do you not understand? Some IP law is needed to protect the little guy.


>the little guy


Anyone saying all these generalizations is reductive. There's lazy sampling and transformative sampling.
Like here. Juice world just… Plays the Bass guitar melody of one of stings songs on loop. There's no breaks, no chops, etc.
Compare that to Madlib's on All caps.


His fan base is majority white.


>Bills for the lengthy hospital stays topped $200,000 each time. Dialysis three times a week cost $1,800. Each once-a-week shot to raise his hemoglobin cost $1,800. He had dozens of prescriptions – $700, $900 or even $2,000 out of pocket per bottle.

the absolute state of burger healtcare.


They're all bourgeois pigs. I cannot sympathize with owners of capital. "Producers". Fuck music kulaks


As far as I can tell, no serious threats have been made, and no legal action is going to be taken. However, plagiarism is more akin to libel or slander in that the main crime is lying which damages a person's reputation (although this is incidental to plagiarism). For "IP theft" the issue is not lying (whether outright or by omission) about w/e, but merely using an idea, a recording, etc.
>but over intellectual property ownership
>fictitious capitals
That's not what fictitious capital means
>exclusive rights of value extraction "from their ideas™"
That's not how Youtubers make money. They make money either through advertisements (which are a form of brainwashing mostly targeted on wealthier workers, professionals, or management) or through a gift economy, which is unironically communistic (although this is somewhat subverted through waged laborers), or some combination of these. The only "value extraction" is of whatever waged (or otherwise compensated) laborers worked under the group, although since under Marxism, the whole operation doesn't even produce value, even this doesn't make any sense.
You can say he's arguing for the exclusive rights to beg for money with the backing that they actually wrote what they wrote I guess? But this is the same as arguing for not lying. Maybe you could also say he's arguing for exclusive rights to gain from advertising, but as far as I recall he doesn't mention mirroring videos, which would be the relevant case (if he was against this, this would cross my line).
>campaigns for youtube to give stronger intellectual property rights
Once again, source? at 3:38:38 he seems to state the exact opposite
People hate the upper middle class so fucking much that they keep on pretending that they're part of a non-working class in the Marxist sense even when there's 0 evidence that they are. A group that mostly consists of people who don't have any capital, don't sell any products, and don't employ any labor are "petty-bourgeois" apparently because
1. The successful ones are rich
2. They're annoying liberals (even if they say they aren't you know better, don't you?)
3. The ones you hate come from "rich" (upper middle class to middle middle class) backgrounds, which you despise either because you came from one too and hate your family and peers, or because you grew up poor and they seemed rich to you because actually rich people segregate themselves to such an extent that they're invisible to poor people's resentments.
Call them what they actually are: semi-independent service workers. They do the bidding of capital in a problematic way to the extent they advertise, but otherwise there is little structurally wrong with them (at least in comparison to the actual petty-bourgeiousie).
>The "content" is not a source of value, or research, but of mass waste.
Value isn't a moralistic category for Marx you fucking dilettante.


Explain your position that plagiarism is more akin to slander than, say, OP’s examples of rappers sampling without permission.


Simple, IP would just be giving credit where credit is due being required to disclose what was sampled and in some cases where.



This implies sampling is theft, which it is not.

Sampling a track keeps the original.

It just makes a copy and enhances said copy.


I already explained it. It is intentionally lying or at least deceiving about certain things in order to get credit for something more accurately attributed to the other person. This is similar to slander in that it is a lie that (from the perspective of the person one plagiarized) is bad since it is a lie which damages their reputation (similar to slander). From the perspective of others it does not only this, but also unduly bolsters the reputation of the person who plagiarized (this is less similar to slander, though still deceptive). Sampling without permission doesn't inherently have such a deceptive element.
There are gray areas surrounding when and what you should be required to disclose (e.g. not mentioning where you got a well known paragraph likely wouldn't be deceptive, thus people don't plagiarize the emancipation proclamation, but not mentioning a less known paragraphs likely would be). But these controversies are usually hashed out on the basis of whether not disclosing would be deceptive outweighs the extent to which forcing to disclose would be obnoxious/unwieldy.


It's not PC to say, but the reason hip hop has a major misogyny problem is because Blacks see race as the primary contradiction to which all other contradictions are subordinated. Then class, then gender. Black women share this view and are often times highly submissive to Black men for this exact reason. Black male woman hating is rarely ever addressed because Black women think it's their "place" to submit to Black men so they let a lot of that shit fly.


Notice when producers are interviewed all they talk about is their music. When pop stars and rappers are interviewed all they talk about is their personal lives.

Really makes you think who the real artist is.


So the issue isn't the copying but the lying/deception aspect? I see.

Read "Settlers", settler.

Correct, and it's always been that way. "Pop stars" have always been figureheads for producers, who are the actual musicians.


Well, I'd say Black nationalists view it that way. And hip hop overlaps with Black nationalist ideology a lot. But all nationalisms are fairly misogynistic in addition to generally reactionary.


Yeah there’s a reason why despite making up the lion’s share of national liberation fighters women always end up being re-subjugated after national liberation is achieved. Nationalists are obsessed with increasing birthrates for one thing. Maybe that’s why rappers have so many fucking out-of-wedlock kids.


well producers know that nobody cares about their personal lives


Which says a lot about pop stars if they're compelled to talk more about their personal bullshit than their actual music.


that's what people generally want to hear from them though.


Pop stars aren’t “artists” but figureheads for producers. Most rappers are too. Notice how Carti sounds like shit unless he’s specifically rapping over a Pi’erre Bourn beat?


Eh, I wouldn't say Bowie was a figurehead for Eno in Low even though most people seem to think it was more Eno. Have to take it on a case by case basis imo.


I think it's a bit harsh to say that, pop is a big genre, but yes the most popular and marketed artists are usually just puppets for their studios


Actually, hip hop producers are probably the most inclined towards communism given that they understand the value of sharing.


The only difference between a sample and an interpolation is who gets paid.


A much better example would be boy bands or all the artists whom Max Martin has produced for.


None of these are contradictory. A lot of sophisticated art pop that's far more complex than your average pop song got played on MTV in the 80s too.


>>10592 (me)
Should have added too that innovative geniuses who make shit that sounds very different from others are always bound to have copycats later on. Doesn't mean they're representative.


Sampling brings new life to songs and artists that would have otherwise been forgotten. It should be considered an honour to be sampled.


Question: what exactly is the current legal process it takes to clear a sample?


Compared to Canada, where they euthanize you if you have an incurable disease.


It's the fault of the original artists for refusing to be good sports about their songs being revitalized.


>Donuts is definitely a sophisticated album I doubt your average dudebro producer could make something like that.

Sophisticated in that it makes my ears fucking bleed.


>yes I take pride in the fact that I don't get one of the best albums of all time


At least rappers can now sample Steamboat Willie.


Don't want to defend Nas or anything but they were in a custody battle and were both abusive to each other.


I’m Canadian, and that’s not how MAiD works, at all. Like I get that people are freaking out over the times when people applied for MAiD because they couldn’t afford a wheelchair or whatever, but it’s not like the government is mass-killing patients. The patient has to be proactive and request assisted suicide themselves. Doctors aren’t offering it to people willy-nilly like the media wants you to believe.

>”why do distorted sample flips sound so distorted?”

Yeah the album is specifically about his death and if you look at many of the samples he used you’d see they’re pretty dark. Plus he uses a lot of subliminal messages around death and dying. I can’t imagine how much pain he was probably in, trying to produce music while deteriorating away and time is running out. Takes a seriously dedicated artist to perform such a task.

Living is a choice.


>makes pro-death argument:
>"lol no guize maid is good actually stop fearmongering."

>makes pro-life argument:

>"it's so beautiful a dying musician would make music on his deathbed, choose life!"


You are the worst poster on this entire website.


Look, I don’t want to get sentimental or force my religion on anyone, but if you’re alive today it’s because God wanted you here and you still have a purpose to fulfill. If someone wants to choose death then so be it but I’d rather celebrate those who choose to live-live in their last months alive.


TBH I don’t understand why we go through that much effort to keep people who are that sick alive. At some point it’s better if we put them out of their misery esp if their families will be forced to pay all those medical bills. Patients should accept death and call it quits.


Some people don't want to die even in the face of grave illness.


MAiD isn’t offered for lupus…


This thread is fucking insane when the one thing that has hardly changed is how much bands and artists absolutely HATE the record industry that they're forced to be part of to get their music out there. At least it's not nearly as much of a problem these days.



This video makes the perfect argument against sampling. The guy in the video shows how J Dilla's signature timefeel drum patterns can't be made or reproduced by a live drummer and can only be made by a drum machine. Doesn't matter if he was artsy or whatever with it. None of those "beat tapes" could ever be reproduced by a band playing live. This furthers what everyone else ITT was saying about sampling cheapening music. Traditional musicians hate sampling and electronic music overall for this very reason: machines have now made musicians who actually play instruments effectively obsolete. Producers and DJs can simply sample any guitars or drums they want and put together an instrumental without needing any IRL guitarists or drummers, and in order to play it live all they need to do is push buttons. Bands that play their instruments together are a rarity in pop music today.

I have never heard any good argument in favor of sampling and it's not too far off to say sampling is the eventual gateway to AI music. If traditional musicians have become useless, why not have all our pop music be made by robots and algorithms? It's a very real slipper slope you refuse to acknowledge.

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