No.515632
If god exists, we should find a way do destroy god
No.515635
>>515632if he does not exist, them it is whatever i guess
No.515648
We need to make god-free spirituality more popular. You will never convince the vast population not to engage in spirituality, but removing Gods from the picture seems quite easy actually.
That said, I wanna see more shinto stuff. There's still deities, sure, but they do fun stuff like Yokai and these thingies: ⛩️
No.515649
You can't be a communist and religious of any form.
No.515650
>>515649Materialism =/= vulgar physicalism. Anything you believe exist thereby adheres to material analysis.
No.515651
>>515630God being real is basically the only scenario where politics shouldn't exist
>god says X>do X or you go to hell>shut the fuck up No.515655
>>515651not really, even if god existed, why would you care
>you go to hellif god is measurable and predictable, he is just another material (even if kind of intangible) force. if he isn't, then there is no point worrying about it. in both cases the logic of politics doesn't change
No.515660
>>515650You're supporting my point. The thesis of divine revelation is at odds with the life of men being determined by their material conditions for this includes within it all religious ideals as well. Religion doesn't get some magical exemption, it's a product of the real world, of society.
>>515652Go back to KYM, child.
No.515671
>>515660What would a "devine revelation" entail other than those material conditions, or conditions you aren't yet aware of?
No.515725
>>515630>that picAll hail the holy scrotum.
No.515727
dont care im fighting it and FUCKING it
No.515737
>>515630Not the answer you want to hear, but I'm Jewish and would argue it matters a lot. If God exists then we should be shaping our society on what God wants this world to be. If God demands justice, then what kind of justice and how do we go about implementing it? Do we believe the world is supposed to change and evolve or do we believe God has a set order for all times and places? Is God an angry God or a forgiving, merciful God? These are all questions that should be considered.
No.515751
>>515630>Why does “God” need to be in the picture at all, or even considered?Religion provides a unified identity for a nation.
No.515752
>>515751completely irrelevant to marxists and anarchists lol
No.515755
It depends on how do you define god, if you mean the abrahamic god then it does matter like
>>515737 said because there are people following that god's commands, if it is a spininozian god then asking if it exists isn't even worth asking. The only way gods can have political implications is if you think that our actions and thoughts are caused by them because politics are a human creation entirely.
No.515763
>>515752Don't Marxists need a nation to be unified?
No.515875
Would be interesting to ask conservatives this question and compare their responses to those of Marxists on here.
No.515892
why do religious think if there was no god you would just go into the street naked and start robbing, raping, killing, swearing, and stealing,
No.515907
>>515875marxists sounds plural but the only marxist here is me and I only posted once in this thread (twice now)
No.515926
>>515892Because they're psychos that have no empathy for others
No.515927
>>515671>What would a "devine revelation" entail other than those material conditionsthis is just conceding his point and renders the whole discussion pointless
No.515969
>>515927That's at least 3 goalposts away from what's being discussed tho. Materialism never was, isn't, and never will be vulgar physicalism. The general non-usefulness of a message from a diety diagnosing an issue you've supposedly submitted a ticket / issue for has nothing to do with that. The hypothetical assumes you are asking because you think you're missing something, so you're requesting assistance. If you actually got that assistance through that avenue, that would be materially relevant.
Irrelevant =/= non-existence. You should be concerned with that which pertains to your praxis, that which is immediately materially relevant.
No.515988
>>515905Christians are insufferable.
No.515996
>>515632If god existed, it would be necessary to have séx with it.-Bakunin
No.515997
>>515905Love seeing freedom-loving lolberts against abortion, I guess it violates the NAP or something.
No.515998
>>515997>42% OF BABIES KILLED IN ABORTIONS ARE BLACKKnowing libertarians, they’d rather shoot them instead.
No.515999
>>515996Mormons unironically believe in this
No.516018
>>515905>I'm not Jesus so don't get your hopes up>It puts the moral responsibility on the individual to take care of those around him. To organize to deal with the issues personally rather than giving away his responsibility to a impersonal system, which also leads to him losing his power in the matter.Has zero to do with God or religion.
No.516026
>>515997lolberts only care about abortion if its against white babies
No.516032
>>515998>>42% OF BABIES KILLED IN ABORTIONS ARE BLACKWow, Black women want to control their fertility the same way rich white women do, shocker.
No.516033
>>516032The birthrates for Bkacks and Whites have been dropping in America.
This is good.
Both ethnocultural groups have been shit since the 1970s.
No.516038
>>516033Birthrates in America have been dropping across the board. Not even Mexicans and white Appalachians are reproducing above replacement levels, hence the abortion bans and threats to ban hormonal birth control.
No.516077
>>516038Im kimda dissapointed. Why are governments so obsessed with birthrates when they do everything in their power to hurt the masses?
What is the point of life if its all mediocrity and pain?
I think humans made a mistake extending the life expectancy. Maybe life was better when we died in our late forties/early fifties from pneumonia.
(Life expectancy ≠ life span)
No.516081
>>516077they just need more labor. thats it.
No.516083
>>516081You can have morelabor by reducing corporate takeovers.
Encourage the creation of local community farms amd workshops.
Re-introduce trades into schools.
No.516085
>>516083Nobody wants to do long term investment
No.516087
>>516085Then let the birthrates drop
No.516090
>>516087But Anon, that would hurt the profits…
No.516554
>>516551
Damn profits! They ruined profit!
No.516560
>How does the existence of God have any political implications?
it is an element of the cultural superstructure which maintains the economic base. In Marxist theory it is a product of the economic base. To Marx questions of religion are secondary to questions of economics. To Marx, religion is the opium of the masses, the "heart" of a "heartless" world, and the "soul" of "soulless" (meant metaphorically) conditions. It keeps the proletariat "drugged" against class consciousness by demanding that they stay obedient to the ruling class while alive so they can have riches in a (nonexistent) afterlife. Despite repeatedly praising the poor and damning the rich, and despite Jesus's action against the moneylenders in the second temple of Jerusalem, the bible ultimately teaches (particularly in Acts and the Pauline epistles) that slaves should be obedient to their masters, and regard them "with fear and trembling" and all 3 abrahamic religions characterise their ideology as enslavement/servitude to God, which is proper, and finds its analogy on Earth in political servitude to earthly leaders (provided that they follow God).
This all has a ton of political implications, and that's without even getting into the question of other religions, or how these religions co-evolved and relate to each other.
No.518244
Ask the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin.
No seriously.
No.518246
>>515630<socialism evil satanism sin because bible says soThis is why.
No.518248
>>518246>Why are religious and theological debates even worth having if they mean nothing in terms of how we shape our future political program? They matter in the head of those faithful, entailing an obstacle and a fifth column for a secular goverment in every revolution possible (literally insert any social revolution ever)
>Why does “God” need to be in the picture at all, or even considered? If the masses are to be lead, and said masses are theist you can see how it would be a problem. The leadership of said church(es) should be decadent, rotten or meaningless enough that it doesn't again, be a fifth column
>If we could prove God's existence what would really change?If it is the Christian god it could provide us with is kingdom come and banish made the meek inheret the earth for starters.
Reminder to check some encyclicals if you want to see the obvious most conservative side of the catholic church.
https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_28121878_quod-apostolici-muneris.htmlhttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.htmlhttps://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19370319_divini-redemptoris.htmlOld conservative (and fascist enabler), but to counterbalance some P. Francis
https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.htmlhttps://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html No.518251
>>518248None of this matters for socialist praxis.
No.518253
>>518250some hypothesize that this verse is a transliteration error and that the original verse said it is easier for a cable (thick rope on a ship) to pass through the eye of a needle because camel/cable are spelled nearly the same in Greek and a thick rope is a seemingly less random and more apt metaphor for sewing, because at least it is a long line of fabricated material, that a misguided person would try to "thread" through a tiny needlehead. Others hypothesize it was the nickname of a specific a pedestrian door in the outer walls of Jerusalem. Others still think it really was just meant to be a "lol so random" joke. I personally like the cable interpretation the best. This and the money lenders thing are the most widely quoted "socialist" passages in the bible but others are funnier or more interesting.
>Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven >it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.> Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common>He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.>Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, 39 and to have the best seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets! 40 They devour widows' houses and for the sake of appearance say long prayers. No.518255
>>518253Large animals passing through the eye of a needle predates the Bible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle No.518263
>>518261And there are marxist christians who are cute and valid. Marxist revolutionary theory is against organized religion that supports ruling classes like in czarist russia.
No.518362
All concepts of politics and statehood are secularized theological concepts.
>Why are religious and theological debates even worth having if they mean nothing in terms of how we shape our future political program?
Say the Evangelicals are right and there is an all powerful transcendent creator God who dictated the ten commandments to Moses, this would obviously be of huge political significance because if it is true then we would be obliged to implement the ten commandments or integrate them into political life somehow. Unless your an O9A pedophile, in which case you should do everything in your power to be the opposite of an upstanding human being because God is evil an satan was heckin based.
Marxoids live with their head in the sand. You people are still peddling 19th century scientism atheism while the rest of the world has moved on. Even if your an atheist, there's nothing worse than being theologically illiterate. A whole world of interesting ideas you've closed off because you think your too good to read the Bible or just quote Marx despite the fact you have no idea what he's saying. The modern left is truly shameful.
No.518390
Wa iz yamkuru bikal lazeena kafaroo liyusbitooka aw yaqtulooka aw yukhrijook; wa yamkuroona wa yamkurul laahu wallaahu khairul maakireen - SURAH AL-ANFAL AYAT 30
There you go
No.518392
There is a lot of good discussions you can get from this topic but most people seems to be more concerned on whether we should obey religious rules or not, which is the least interesting part of any religion
No.518394
>>518253The thing about the "eye of a needle" being a door or gate is some modern cope by evangelicals trying to say that Jesus was definitely not saying rich people are bad.
The "cable" thing sounds like some shit made up by people going off the English version.
No, it's translated correctly. The nonsensical nature of it is the whole point. Jesus pretty consistently used absurdist hyperbole, maybe most famously the "turn the other cheek" bit. It's pretty much the main theme of the new testament that the people he preaches to are too thick skulled to get his message so he has to go over the top to really hammer it home.
No.526236
Bump
No.526240
>>515996Shut up, Erischan
No.526244
>>518356holy shit how did stalin come up with so many gemmy quotes?
No.526247
>>516560Religion is not a part of the superstructure , this is one of the biggest misinterepretations of Marx
>In the social production of their existence, men inevitably enter into definite relations, which are independent of their will, namely relations of production appropriate to a given stage in the development of their material forces of production. The totality of these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of society, the real foundation, on which arises a LEGAL AND POLITICAL SUPERSTRUCTURE and to which correspond definite forms of social consciousness. No.526322
>>526247I don't see how the quote you dropped proves religion
isn't part of the superstructure. Religion is pretty clearly a superstructural element . It arises from the economic base, which are the "relations of production appropriate to a given stage in the development of their material forces of production." I can only assume that you used all-caps for "LEGAL AND POLITICAL SUPERSTRUCTURE" as a sort of "proof by omission" i.e., because Marx didn't explicitly say that religion
was part of the superstructure, it must mean it isn't. But what else would it be? If everything is either part of the superstructure or the base, religion fits very clearly into the superstructure. Also Engels pretty clearly says religion is part of the superstructure in an 1890 letter to J. Bloch.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/letters/90_09_21.htmThe economic situation is the basis, but
the various elements of the superstructure — political forms of the class struggle and its results, to wit: constitutions established by the victorious class after a successful battle, etc., juridical forms, and even the reflexes of all these actual struggles in the brains of the participants, political, juristic, philosophical theories, religious views and their further development into systems of dogmas — also exercise their influence upon the course of the historical struggles and in many cases preponderate in determining their form.
I'll set the bar fairly low: can you show any well-known Marxist explicitly stating religion is
not part of the superstructure?
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