/siberia/ - Off-topic

>>518300
>Where can I find people online going "what did Marx mean with the Gotha Critique" with people able to give informed responses
Isn't that one of the most basic bitch questions you could ask? Consult Google or chatgpt. We are more into Marx's deep cuts here.

>>518300
> local organized labor milieu

That is incredible anon! Tell us your accomplishments for the international workers movement!

>>518301
Really? Because clearly the modern revisionists swamping this site haven't comprehended it yet. Obviously shit like that has to be front and center, not CGTN headlines about deregulating Hainan by 2025 and how socialist that is.

>>518302
What a fragile ego
If you actually were a communist you wouldn't have reacted to that at all. Kinda telling tbh, very embarrassing for you (stop posting anytime polyp), big oof

>>518303
I mean, you could go back and try to explain why "China isn't socialist" and stuff, but you never responded back, curious. I smell sectarian butthurt idealism from kilometers…

>>518306
Got the schizo in here already?

Here go get your dopamine hit to soyface to:
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-01/China-releases-master-plan-for-Hainan-free-trade-port-QYkZQtO6oo/index.html

Marx's "Critique of the Gotha Programme" is a significant text in Marxist theory, written in 1875 as a response to the draft program of the German Social Democratic Party. In this critique, Marx aimed to analyze and provide commentary on the party's proposed program, assessing its alignment with Marxist principles and its potential implications for the transition from capitalism to socialism.

One of the central points of Marx's critique was his analysis of the proposed system of remuneration, which he referred to as the "proportional wage" system. Under this system, workers would receive compensation based on the amount of labor they contributed to society. Marx argued that this approach perpetuated elements of capitalism by maintaining a form of wage labor and did not represent a true transition to socialism. He criticized the idea of remunerating labor based on its value under capitalism, suggesting instead that socialism should aim for a system where individuals contribute according to their ability and receive according to their needs.

Furthermore, Marx emphasized the necessity of a transitional period between capitalism and communism, which he referred to as the "lower" and "higher" phases of communist society. During this transitional period, Marx envisioned the continued existence of certain elements of the state and a form of labor compensation based on individual contribution. However, he stressed that this transitional phase would be characterized by the gradual withering away of the state and the establishment of a society where individuals freely associate and cooperate without the need for a coercive governing apparatus.

Additionally, Marx addressed the issue of inequality and exploitation within the proposed socialist society, arguing that it was imperative to eliminate the conditions that give rise to these injustices. He advocated for the abolition of private ownership of the means of production and the establishment of collective ownership as a means of achieving genuine equality and freedom for all members of society.

Overall, Marx's "Critique of the Gotha Programme" provides valuable insights into his vision of socialism and communism, highlighting the need for a thorough transformation of societal structures and emphasizing the principles of equality, cooperation, and the eventual dissolution of the state in the transition to a truly communist society.

we just talk about dugin, Ukraine, zionism, trump, gooning and wanking

>>518311
>Personally relying on proprietary AI instead of organizing reading groups for human workers interested in communism
You are truly an intellectual

>>518310
>Got the schizo in here already?

>Here go get your dopamine hit to soyface to:

Look man, i ALMOST, for just a second, believed you were an actual adult. I think i was wrong. Anyway, go back to /Pol/, glowie. Go back to reddit. Stop being butthurt about losing a argument on the internet. This a website for ALL types of left, from anarchists, to socdem, to marxists. Once in a while a nazi pops up too. We are not a bookclub reading the same texts everyday

>Where have the people that cared about theory gone?
School, or as you've seen yourself, organizing.
>half-assed snail-posts cheerleading bourgeois sides in news cycles.
We do have a news addict problem, yeah.
I've been trying to think of non-jokey sfw non-news-addict thread topics, but school has me pretty strapped for time.

Yeah all the coreweb stuff is dying due to both economic factors, and the availability of good alternatives, so fedi (mastodon and stuff) and personal websites* are booming in popularity, pretty much replacing it at this point. Also cohost is pretty active with some theory read individuals, but most people on cohost also have a fedi, so I'd just head to fedi to start with.

* https://thoughts.melonking.net/guides/introduction-to-the-web-revival-1-what-is-the-web-revival

>>518316
You're proving my point. You don't know the significance of the text, haven't read it, won't read it, will waste other people's time and your own.

>>518317
Thank you so much comrade.

>>518318
You are the real Marxist comrade.

>>518321
Many are, just want to make sure we make more of them.

>>518322
Good luck to you. Maybe next century you will have better luck.

Is there a Critique of The Marxist Programme or something I can read?

Billions of dollars from private corporations, intelligence agencies and foreign interest like Saudi Arabia & Israel are pumped into plastering as much far right wing propaganda on to the web as possible. And now we have conformation from Elon that tech CEO psychos like him are actively pushing the scales and making up view counts. And despite this rigging the online right is barley coming out a head.

Its why the U.S is so desperate to shut Tic tok down. When the algorithms aren't purposely tweaked to suppress left wing content it organically rises to the top. I think the online/offline left is underestimating how much progress has been made. The online left needs to rally and a new crop of creators need to find a way to burst into the scene. I think we're seeing that on tic. The offline left needs to find a way horizontal organize the recent rise of unions. Or central them in and begin building parallel institutions and infrastructure. Its a uphill battle but considering its still barley 30 years past the collapse of the soviet union. The U.S labor and socialist movement are making great strides. The ruling class is getting scared, its why they also building all those cop cities everywhere. They've giving up on maintain legitimacy thru soft power and propaganda and are now opting for violence. They know they can only continue to radicalize more and more prols.

>>518325
It's kinda funny if that's their reason for banning tiktok, given there's the entire rest of the web being not dictated by algorithms whatsoever. You'd think they'd see fedi or any other chonological feed / non-feed based site as a greater threat.
Like I agree that's most likely their reason for doing it, but that just shows the desperation, doesn't it?

This "Mastodon" thing sounds actually interesting. I might take a look

If we knew where they went, do you think we would be still here?

>>518329

This socialist site seems pretty interesting / promising; it's democratically run and the discussion so far has had a more mature tone:
http://nuclearcdboxafziza4mgohcwhzfjiyg6zeslnry33pepsgtur2wyeyd.onion/index.html
They also, in addition to a .onion have a .i2p domain

>>518328
It really depends. The fediverse is split mostly between shitlibs and reactionaries along the fediblock wall

Ill be honest, I dont see point in arguing contemporary politics, I study Marxism by listening to audiobooks and youtube lectures while commuting/cooking/working out/doing laundry/etc., and come to this site just to commiserate with fellow lost souls about my sad life.

>>518342
Which are the left instances, if you know of any?
There must be at least a couple left of radlib right (I know there are anarchist ones, but thinking more Marxist)

>>518348 (me)
nvm found a good candidate from instance search:
https://librarysocialism.social/about
Let's gooo!

>>518333
>Rules
>1. No pornography, gore or shock images. There are other sites for those.
Woah I can actually get behind this!

They left, or found niches. "Theorycels" were always bullied by the broader "online left" which was always more interested in actionist reforms and cheerleading bourgeois factions anyhow.

>>518368
It is funny that "theorycels" never post any theory. Look at this thread, no theorycel posted any theory.

>>518369
That logic doesn't even make sense. The thread isn't about any specific theory, and it's better to discuss such things with someone that actually cares instead of anonymous anti-intellectuals.

>>518312
I mean, >AI, but you're literally right. They've unwittingly been trained on so many documents they've probably read more Marx than Marx wrote, enough that just parroting what it read can give a decent consensus answer.

>>518302
Bordigoid

>>518311
Here it is: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm
>One of the central points of Marx's critique was his analysis of the proposed system of remuneration, which he referred to as the "proportional wage" system.
Marx did not refer to that as "proportional wage".
>suggesting instead that socialism should aim for a system where individuals contribute according to their ability and receive according to their needs.
Only as a long-term tendency.
>Furthermore, Marx emphasized the necessity of a transitional period between capitalism and communism, which he referred to as the "lower" and "higher" phases of communist society.
Self-contradictory statement. Using the wording of Marx, the lower phase of communism is already communism. And why would you introduce that with "furthermore", the higher phase is the phase with "according to needs" which you already talked about, Mr. Robot.
>Marx addressed the issue of inequality and exploitation within the proposed socialist society
What exploitation?
Chat GPT really is a great simulation of a sleep-deprived student who skims texts and is bluffing about his level of expertise. You can ask it about famous people and it is constantly making up books they haven written and crimes they haven't committed.

As for OP's question: Try Mastodon and Fediverse and don't be discouraged by the low volume of comments. The volume is low, but the average quality is sky-high compared to Facebook and Twitter.

>>518352
yeah ok matty roses we know its u

>>518417
What is this, some obscure way of you calling me a fag?

>>518505
No, it's some silly way of being called a shill, that's the name of the admin of that instance you posted.
idk, some people just suck I guess.

>>518574
Oh
Well tbf I only got two results when searching for left-related tags in the Mastodon instance search, I could've shared the other one too:
https://provo.lol/about
Thing is I found the other more fitting, as this the above one is seemingly anarchist with Dutch 60s New Left tendencies
But from a glance of the history of 'Provo' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_(movement) ) it could be a great alternative for shitpost-heavy Mastodon use, of which surely a non-negligible amount of people on this board could find use of in hate-posting @ fediverse liberals and reactionaries for example
I unfortunately do not host any public servers

>>518604
There are definitely more, kolektiva.social is a well-known anarchist instance, although I don't have an account and used to just look at the Explore page, but Explore so filled with banal junk from other instances that you might as well just find specific accounts or tags to follow.

>>518625
It's on another instance (and visible on kolektiva), but I do like the Radical Graffiti account for a nice quick good mood bump.

>>518333
They've got a public clearnet address now: nuclearchange.net
The /praxis/ board is a cool idea. Hopefully it doesn't become near-dead like /edu/.

>>518765
>Nazi pedo tracking thread
That's a bloody rabbithole if I ever saw one. Over a hundred, and =two different= investigations into German pedo nazi cops.

>>519183
>=two different=
uygha learn to format
but also, yes, wtf

>>518300
Breadtube collapsed

>>519552
billions must video essay

>>519552
what are you talking about?
bad quality?