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siberia archives


File: 1712334509642.png (306.72 KB, 500x485, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.519778

HOW THE FUCK IS QUANTUM PHYSICS NOT REGARDED AS ANTI-MATERIALIST BULLSHIT?!?!?!
>oh stuff isn't really stuff any more man. stuff stops being made of stuff bro. instead it "arises" out of a "field". What is that "field" made of? Tee hee! I'll never tell!
>particles and anti-particles simultaneously "arise" and "annihilate" What do they arise out of? A field that permeates everything. What is that field? Is it nothing? Well no, it's not nothing but it's also not something either.
>even if we had infinitely precise measuring tools the uncertainty principle would still be true. How do I know this is the case without having made observations with infinitely precise tools? Tee hee! I'll never tell!

 No.519779

its called dialectics sweaty. im sorry orange man didnt teach it to you chvds

 No.519781

It's all Hilbert spaces bro.

 No.519782

> NO REAL-WORLD USE FOUND for looking beyond the FIRST ORDER DERIVATIVES
You do realize that acceleration is the second order derivative?

 No.519783

>>519781
>it's all
<idealist mathematical construct humans made up to describe material thing
>rather than the physical thing itself
>bro

SHOW ME A REAL HILBERT SPACE IN REAL LIFE

WHAT IS A HILBERT SPACE MADE OF? WHERE IS IT LOCATED? WHAT DOES IT DO?

 No.519784

File: 1712335566539.png (975.73 KB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.519789

Anyone who does any kind of respectable science will tell you everything starts being bullshit the moment you put "quantum" before it

 No.519794


 No.519798

>>519778
Uhhh because it was observed materially?

 No.519799

>>519798
what material is a quantum field made of

 No.519800

>>519794
>this bait isn't believable
>posted after 5 people took it

 No.519819

>>519778
>>oh stuff isn't really stuff any more man. stuff stops being made of stuff bro. instead it "arises" out of a "field". What is that "field" made of? Tee hee! I'll never tell!
lol this dude thinks materialism is when physics conforms to his idea of conventional objects and forces

 No.519835

>>519799
quanta
Are you stupid?

 No.519842

I know this is bait but it's important to state that quantum physicists are as dumbfounded as you pretend to be because of how odd and seemingly inconsistent it is, but the issue is that it just works, as this conversation done trough devices built on that science field proves.

 No.519844

>>519842
>quantum physicists are as dumbfounded as you pretend to be
wow the one field where the experts really are dumbfounded while the laymen only pretend to be instead of vice versa. not suspicious at all.

 No.519877

>>519844
what the fuck r they supposed to do
when you get really deep into physics shit just makes 0 sense. theyre doing their best to try and convert it into a meaningful system

 No.519878

>>519783
>WHAT IS A HILBERT SPACE MADE OF?
I would assume hilberts…

 No.519885

File: 1712353043887.jpg (32.84 KB, 400x400, hydrogen.jpg)

"Atoms" themselves are not directly observed, but are mathematically calculated. Its like democritus' atoms being geometric, or timeus' (plato's) elements arising out of tiny pyramids.
Also, matter hasnt been "material" since einstein. You complain about field theory, but what is "space-time" made of exactly?
The simple dialectical point is that "matter" self-relates through "energy" (which is also itself). So, there is no "stuff" at the bottom of reality. Like consciousness, Reality is an emergent process. It begins at its end.
>>519779
Basically.

 No.519890

>>519800
and?
it isn't my fault they fall for it

 No.519920

File: 1712356343930.webm (3.6 MB, 320x180, heybobhahahahah.webm)

>>519885
>Like consciousness, Reality is an emergent process. It begins at its end.
>le time goes backwards

MEDS!!!!

 No.519921

>>519877
>what the fuck r they supposed to do
say "we don't know what this is made of yet because we use weak baby tools created by a low tech species living in a pre communist society""
NOT
"actually matter stops being real because our calculations came back silly"

 No.519922

>>519835
>umm it's made of
<thing that isn't even made of stuff
very materialist

 No.520016

>>519922
All particles are also waves

 No.520018

>it's another "materialism is when physics" bait thread

 No.520044

File: 1712362448174.png (8.77 KB, 256x256, 4263ee549ea91af1.png)

MATERIALISM IS NOT PHYSICALISM YOU FUCKING SMOOTH BRAIN, ACTUALLY READ MARX INSTEAD OF ASSUMING WHAT WORDS MEAN BY HOW THEY SOUND!!!1!

 No.520047

>>520044
True. Psychics was in its infancy still when Marx was alive and Marx wasn't any kind of expert in his contemporary physics. Obviously his writings have little to nothing to do with the physical reality of our world unless you unironucally consider him a divinely inspired profit or something. He was just working with the information he was privy to which is next to nothing when it comes to science.

 No.520048

>>520047
Okay sillypostisg aside, physicalism and physics as a study are two seperate things.

 No.520050

What is Marx's opinion on The Ether? These are the important questions we need to be asking in 1883+141. P

 No.520052

>>520048
One is philosophical mubo jumbo, one is a scientific description if physical phenomenon.

 No.520065

>>520047
>divinely inspired profit
>profit
intentional misspelling?

 No.520066

>>520044
cute kitty!

 No.520068

>>520016
>thing is two things at the same time
idealist nonsense!

 No.520158

>>519781
Your dad's bussy is a Hilbert Hotel.

 No.520173

>>520044
ze cat is dead now you opened ze box

 No.520174

>>520066
https://volpeon.ink/emojis/neocat/
/siberia/ should have emoji reactions tbh

 No.520184

This thread is embarrassing lol.
Quantum fields aren't separate from matter nor do they make/give rise to it, they are matter itself when they're in an excited state. A non-excited (ground state) quantum field is a complete vacuum and is the most stable configuration that every point in the quantum field strives towards.

QFT itself is just the mathematical reformulation of classical electromagnetic fields and relativistic gravitational fields. As of right now, it's mostly theoretical though it has passed the predictions and applications threshold (and if it wasn't theoretical, you'd be a step closer to a theory of quantum gravitation which is what every physicist currently cares about).

Either way, you're making the mistake of many early 20th century (and present day, it seems) people by assuming that since QM is non-discrete and unintuitive then it disproves materialism somehow. But instead of going full quantum woo you just say it's false instead.
>>519921
Nobody claims that they know everything and that the current theories are absolute in an ontological sense.
>>520068
Wave-particle duality has been proven many times and it's (likely) related to what I said above.
>>520018
>>520044
>>520050
Read Engels.

 No.520203

NB: I have no real knowledge of QM beyond pop science.

>>520184
The results of QM or whatever are spooky as hell. The wave particle duality has been observed in big molecules even.
Which leads to philosophical insights that are insane yet plausible, or even necessary like the one below:
>>519885
>The simple dialectical point is that "matter" self-relates through "energy" (which is also itself). So, there is no "stuff" at the bottom of reality. Like consciousness, Reality is an emergent process. It begins at its end.

>>520184
>is the most stable configuration that every point in the quantum field strives towards.
>strives towards
This animistic way of thinking of physical processes is a sneaky way for woo to get in. It also seems to imply that a quantum field exists by itself, rather than only exist in relation to the excitations. In the sense that a medium is only a medium insofar it mediates something, and thus must exist in relation to the mediated object.

It doesn't lead to any insight though. I also don't understand enough to make any conjectures. I've also heard that not even a perfect vacuum is stable, since apparently it is always creating and destroying particles.

Although, apparently this is false in theory according to this stack exchange answer
>Pair production cannot occur spontaneously in a complete vacuum
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/527481/how-are-proton-antiproton-pairs-produced
But then again, a complete vacuum is impossible since there's always energy everywhere and dark matter and dark energy is a thing apparently.

In general, I think quantum stuff is basically in it's infancy and we're wondering why our Copernican model is flawed and somewhat nonsensical.

 No.520406

>>519778
kinda unrelated but i knew the most fucking insufferable idealist lib who genuinely thought two material realities were possible at the same time "because schrodinger's cat" and argued the most insane nonsense by claiming it was quantum physics, despite their only understanding of it coming from schizo video essays they watched

 No.520409

File: 1712436683024.png (546.36 KB, 900x600, ClipboardImage.png)

>>519885
>"Atoms" themselves are not directly observed,
opinion discarded; see picrel

 No.520690

>>520409
>using vast amount of energies to read the registry of a tiny particle
Thats the dialectical conundrum im talking about. Its like when people talk about exoplanets, when all they perceive is radio wave readings.
This is the point. Our reality self-relates through abstraction/alienation. The pieces have to be filled in by the loss in translation.

 No.520711

>>520406
Only one liberal? I've heard this so many times lol. It's the entire basis of some TV and movies no?

 No.520720

>>520406
>>520711
This is called the many-worlds interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics.
It's not completely "out there" nor only believed by libs or whatever, it's a realist (as in, philosophically) interpretation that treats the wavefunction and differing probabilities as objectively real where all possibilities happen at once but this difference in outcomes results in different worlds each time.
QM interpretations are a waste of time and no serious physicist cares about them. They're only found in pop-sci and MWI for some reason is the most popular because it's simple and the Copenhagen one basically doesn't say anything.

 No.520729

>>520184
>matter is not-matter that got too excited
MEDS!!!

 No.520791

>>520047
>Psychics was in its infancy still when Marx was alive
200 years after Newton?

 No.520792

>>520791
Yeh. Newton's laws weren't even that novel.

 No.520795

>>520184
>Read Engels
Any specific relevant quotation?

 No.520847

why do people think that QM and relativity are unique in that "they don't explain anything but the math works"

That's true of literally any hard science. It's just making mathematical models based on observations that are good at predicting outcomes, that's it. Nobody claimed they "explain" anything.

Even classical mechanics. you can calculate the trajectory of a ball with mass M hit with force F at an angle of A, and predict where it ends up, but that doesn't explain anything either. You just now have a program for your brain that you can put numbers into and get numbers into. And just because you have a visual analogy in the form of a real life ball and its trajectory, doesn't mean you "understood" or "explained" anything.

 No.520848

>>520847
by this logic geocentric epicycles are hard science because they consist of mathematical models that predict outcomes

 No.520850

>>520848
Why wouldn't they be?

 No.520851

>>520850
Marx never mentioned them.

 No.520881

>>520847
Generally, claims about nature come out of physics, or rather, physics is a study of nature. Classical mechanics are mathematical formulas, sure, but they "hint" as to the nature of physical motion. The map isn't the territory, as anyone will tell you, but you can still learn a lot by studying formulas and actual physical phenomena.

The geocentric model works mathematically, but the Copernican model made way more sense and was more powerful in explaining how nature operates and thus was preferred. Once elliptic motion was added into the equation, and Newton came up with the laws of gravitational motion, it was made abundantly clear which model reflected a more accurate and useful view of nature.

In the same manner, QM are "just formulas" or "just models", but the fact that the models are accurate indicates that our previous understanding of reality is not complete, or consistent. And on top of that, it was proven to be so. In that sense, QM sheds more light into how nature operates, and because it has explanatory power, because it models nature, it also has the power of predicting discoveries.

Reducing it to "just models" ignores the fact that these models reveal deeper understanding of nature. Not only that, it waves away the fact that we can only engage with reality using "models".

The way we interact with reality is mediated by our bodily capabilities, such as sight, touch, smell, as well as socially constructed models of reality, be that classical physics, superstition, or QM.

You've misunderstood what science is, and in a broader sense, what knowledge is. You need to read the German ideology.

 No.520887

>>520795
Sorry, I don't do this practice of just dumping out-of-context sentences as a gotcha argument that's so common in this shithole.
Just read:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1883/don/

 No.520905

>>520881
Mathematical statements are statements about the human mind, to say that they hint at or describe "nature" is unsubstantiated.

"But the mind arises from reality therefore we can redefine "reality" to mean "reality in so far as our minds are capable of conjuring up" <- cop out argument

 No.520908

>>520905
>Mathematical statements are statements about the human mind
no they aren't. the subject of mathematical statements are abstract quantities, and the validity of same is determined by axioms and processes intentionally designed by the human mind. psychologists make statements about the human mind, not mathematicians.

 No.520912

>>519778
>history being determined by material conditions means quantum physics isn't real

I'm fucking begging you LARPers to actually read a fucking book instead of getting your opinions from youtube

 No.520914

>>520905
This is a statement about the human mind?
>>520908
And to turn it up a notch, mathematical structures and objects are the subject of mathematics, the subject of physics is ???? the human mind? Surely not.

 No.520915

>>520914
Jaques Chirac

 No.521051

>>520887
So are you saying that the qupte isn't actually relevant? If the quote was relevant, the context should be the conversation in which you post this yet to be posted quote

 No.521054

>>520690
its not a dialectical conundrum its called using instruments to expand our perception with logical inferences. even your eyes are using vast amount of energy to interpret photon energy through brainwaves to see your own hand in front of you. get over it, sorry reality is complex

 No.521057

>>519778
Another thread for MLs to pretend to be scientists while putting more stock in 19th Century social theories over modern physics

 No.521058

>>520912
i don't even know what "youtube" is you fucking idiot, touch grass and take meds

 No.521060

>>520850
because the earth goes around the sun. geocentric epicycles "predicts" the paths of the planets not by scientific rigor, but by starting at a false conclusion, and working backwards, constructing an elaborate mathematical model to explain the wrong conclusion, when a much simpler answer can be reached through observation and experiment. for centuries astrologists assumed geocentrism because of a abrahamic monotheistic bias that privileged earth as the center of the universe, and they constructed elaborate mathematical models to make the so-called "retrograde motions" of the planets make sense. Turns out the planets were in an elliptical orbit and the so called "retrograde motions" only appeared to happen because Earth is also in orbit around the sun, and not because the planets were actually moving that way!!!! actual hard science disproves retarded mathematical models all the time. Has it occurred to you that future physicists will view quantum mechanics the same way we view geocentrism?

 No.521067

>>521060
Geocentric epicycles were consistent with the observed data for a long time. Just because something was superseded by better models does not mean that it was not hard science in its own time. Claiming otherwise is ahistorical. If quantum mechanics some day will be viewed the same way, that does not mean it is not hard science.

 No.521074

>>521067
consistent with observe data =/= hard science if you start with your conclusion and work backwards constructing elaborate bullshit to explain your conclusions rather than testing hypotheses. read.

 No.521089

>>521051
There's no specific quote and that wasn't what I implied by saying "Read Engels". I'm responding to the broad claim (that cannot be refuted with one shitty quote dump) that materialism in Marxism is supposed to only be about material conditions and not also the underlying nature of reality, as if M&E just woke up one day and decided to not incorporate the idealist & humanist memes in vogue at the time into their socio-economic analyses for zero fucking reasons or justifications.

 No.521090

>>521089
Well thank you for at least posting a summary of why you think x text is relevant.

 No.521091

>science is fake cuz I dont understand it, yes I understand materialism and marxism

lol

 No.521134

>>520908
>abstract quantities
No such thing outside the human mind.

Math is just a language, it just so happens to be useful

>mathematical structures and objects

Product of the human mind

 No.521149

>>521074
That's not how it went down in history.

 No.521173

>>519885
>consciousness […] is an emergent process
that sounds like mumbo-jumbo to me, or do you have any actual explanation for how that takes place?

 No.521183

>>521149
people started at geocentrism and worked backwards to prove it by making "observations" of "retrograde motions" of the planets. They came up with an overly complex answer when the truth was much simpler because they refused to entertain the idea that they weren't the center of the universe. That's exactly how it went down. And that's why theoretical physics stagnates. It tries to come up with mathematical explanations for phenomena we don't have the tools to properly observe yet. It relies too much on calculation and not enough on actual observation/experiment.

 No.521184

>>521173
not the nazi retard anon, but what else would consciousness be if not an emergent process?

 No.521212

>>521184
A product of interactions of matter with a yet to be described "field" or whatever you want to call it.

 No.521223

>>521183
Copernicus put the Sun in the centre of the universe and he still needed epicycles to make the model match what can be seen in the sky. It was not due to ideological adherence, but lack of mathematics and technology to properly observe and describe. It was Tycho Brahe's advancements in observation and mathematics that allowed Kepler to come up with his laws. But if you were to say that people are not allowed to build models before we can "properly observe" phenomena, we would have never had either the accurate models nor the instruments to properly observe.

 No.521234

>>521212
>A product of interactions
that is literally what "emergent process" means

 No.521235

>>521223
you know that's a good point; i'll get off your case now

 No.521257

>>521054
>even your eyes are using vast amount of energy to interpret photon energy through brainwaves to see your own hand in front of you
Yes exactly, so reality relates indirectly and so must be mediated by instruments of perception. Why should eyes develop in the first place if nature is not seeking self-relation?
>>521173
The brain produces consciousness from the universal sum of its parts, not just by its particular neural pathways or whatever. The brain and belly also correlate, and the whole body by the nervous system. To me, consciousness is not just an object you can quantify, but it is qualified through its organic totality.
Think also of species as a concept too, where some amphibians change sexes to compensate for any lack in the gene pool - so animalia is also tied to its social being. So the personal body is tied to the social body and so forth.
My point is that self-consciousness occurs at the end of this integral process and is the outcome of these relations. Nature is not made in a box.

 No.521372

>>521234
I meant that the aspect of consciousness we see is a product of a field's interaction with matter likes the higgs field.


Spooky right as I was writing this message I had the radio on and they said Higgs died.

 No.521382

>>520847
>Even classical mechanics
did u just assume the speed of light was unlimited

 No.521492

>>521372
next youre gonna tell me pyschic power are real

 No.521595

If we imagine any non-living body cut up into smaller and smaller portions, at first no qualitative change occurs. But this has a limit: if we succeed, as by evaporation, in obtaining the separate molecules in the free state, then it is true that we can usually divide these still further, yet only with a complete change of quality. The molecule is decomposed into its separate atoms, which have quite different properties from those of the molecule. In the case of molecules composed of various chemical elements, atoms or molecules of these elements themselves make their appearance in the place of the compound molecule; in the case of molecules of elements, the free atoms appear, which exert quite distinct qualitative effects: the free atoms of nascent oxygen are easily able to effect what the atoms of atmospheric oxygen, bound together in the molecule, can never achieve.

But the molecule is also qualitatively different from the mass of the body to which it belongs. It can carry out movements independently of this mass and while the latter remains apparently at rest, e.g. heat oscillations; by means of a change of position and of connection with neighbouring molecules it can change the body into an allotrope or a different state of aggregation.

Thus we see that the purely quantitative operation of division has a limit at which it becomes transformed into a qualitative difference: the mass consists solely of molecules, but it is something essentially different from the molecule, just as the latter is different from the atom. It is this difference that is the basis for the separation of mechanics, as the science of heavenly and terrestrial masses, from physics, as the mechanics of the molecule, and from chemistry, as the physics of the atom.

In mechanics, no qualities occur; at most, states such as equilibrium, motion, potential energy, which all depend on measurable transference of motion and are themselves capable of quantitative expression. Hence, in so far as qualitative change takes place here, it is determined by a corresponding quantitative change.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1883/don/ch02.htm

Motion in the most general sense, conceived as the mode of existence, the inherent attribute of matter, comprehends all changes and processes occurring in the universe, from mere change of place right up to thinking. The investigation of the nature of motion had, as a matter of course, to start from the lowest, simplest forms of this motion and to learn to grasp these before it could achieve anything in the way of explanation of the higher and more complicated forms. Hence, in the historical evolution of the natural sciences we see how first of all the theory of simplest change of place, the mechanics of heavenly bodies and terrestrial masses, was developed; it was followed by the theory of molecular motion, physics, and immediately afterwards, almost alongside of it and in some places in advance of it, the science of the motion of atoms, chemistry. Only after these different branches of the knowledge of the forms of motion governing non-living nature had attained a high degree of development could the explanation of the processes of motion represented by the life process be successfully tackled. This advanced in proportion with the progress of mechanics, physics, and chemistry. Consequently, while mechanics has for a fairly long time already been able adequately to refer to the effects in the animal body of the bony levers set into motion by muscular contraction and to the laws that prevail also in non-living nature, the physico-chemical establishment of the other phenomena of life is still pretty much at the beginning of its course. Hence, in investigating here the nature of motion, we are compelled to leave the organic forms of motion out of account. We are compelled to restrict ourselves - in accordance with the state of science - to the forms of motion of non-living nature.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1883/don/ch03.htm

The systematising of natural science, which is now becoming more and more necessary, cannot be found in any other way than in the inter-connections of phenomena themselves. Thus the mechanical motion of small masses on any heavenly body ends in the contact of two bodies, which has two forms, differing only in degree, viz., friction and impact. So we investigate first of all the mechanical effect of friction and impact. But we find that the effect is not thereby exhausted: friction produces heat, light, and electricity, impact produces heat and light if not electricity also – hence conversion of motion of masses into molecular motion. We enter the realm of molecular motion, physics, and investigate further. But here too we find that molecular motion does not represent the conclusion of the investigation. Electricity passes into and arises from chemical transformation. Heat and light, ditto. Molecular motion becomes transformed into motion of atoms – chemistry. The investigation of chemical processes is confronted by the organic world as a field for research, that is to say, a world in which chemical processes take place, although under different conditions, according to the same laws as in the inorganic world, for the explanation of which chemistry suffices. In the organic world, on the other hand, all chemical investigations lead back in the last resort to a body – protein – which, while being the result of ordinary chemical processes, is distinguished from all others by being a self-acting, permanent chemical process. If chemistry succeeds in preparing this protein, in the specific form in which if obviously arose, that of a so-called protoplasm, a specificity, or rather absence of specificity, such that it contains potentially within itself all other forms of protein (though it is not necessary to assume that there is only one kind of protoplasm), then the dialectical transition will have been proved in reality, hence completely proved. Until then, it remains a matter of thought, alias of hypothesis.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1883/don/ch07d.htm

Materialism and idealism differ in their respective answers to the question of the source of our knowledge and of the relation of knowledge (and of the “mental” in general) to the physical world; while the question of the structure of matter, of atoms and electrons, is a question that concerns only this “physical world.” When the physicists say that “matter is disappearing,” they mean that hitherto science reduced its investigations of the physical world to three ultimate concepts: matter, electricity and ether; whereas now only the two latter remain. For it has become possible to reduce matter to electricity; the atom can be explained as resembling an infinitely small solar system, within which negative electrons[3] move around a positive electron[4] with a definite (and, as we have seen, enormously large) velocity. It is consequently possible to reduce the physical world from scores of elements to two or three elements (inasmuch as positive and negative electrons constitute “two essentially distinct kinds of matter,” as the physicist Pellat says—Rey, op. cit., pp. 294-95). Hence, natural science leads to the “unity of matter” (ibid.)[2] —such is the real meaning of the statement regarding the disappearance of matter, its replacement by electricity, etc., which is leading so many people astray. “Matter is disappearing” means that the limit within which we have hitherto known matter is vanishing and that our knowledge is penetrating deeper; properties of matter are likewise disappearing which formerly seemed absolute, immutable, and primary (impenetrability, inertia, mass,[5] etc.) and which are now revealed to be relative and characteristic only of certain states of matter. For the sole “property” of matter with whose recognition philosophical materialism is bound up is the property of being an objective reality, of existing outside our mind.

From Engels’ point of view, the only immutability is the reflection by the human mind (when there is a human mind) of an external world existing and developing independently of the mind. No other “immutability,” no other “essence,” no other “absolute substance,” in the sense in which these concepts were depicted by the empty professorial philosophy, exist for Marx and Engels. The “essence” of things, or “substance,” is also relative; it expresses only the degree of profundity of man’s knowledge of objects; and while yesterday the profundity of this knowledge did not go beyond the atom, and today does not go beyond the electron and ether, dialectical materialism insists on the temporary, relative, approximate character of all these milestones in the knowledge of nature gained by the progressing science of man. The electron is as inexhaustible as the atom, nature is infinite, but it infinitely exists. And it is this sole categorical, this sole unconditional recognition of nature’s existence outside the mind and perception of man that distinguishes dialectical materialism from relativist agnosticism and idealism.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/five2.htm

It is evident that if a certain body is taken as a unit, the motion (mechanical) of all other bodies can be expressed as a mere relation of acceleration. But this does not at all mean that “bodies” (i.e., matter) disappear or cease to exist independently of our mind. When the whole world is reduced to the movement of electrons, it will be possible to eliminate the electron from all equations, because it will be everywhere assumed, and the correlation between groups or aggregates of electrons will reduce itself to their mutual acceleration, if the forms of motion prove to be as simple as those of mechanics.

The electron theory “is developing into an atomic theory of electricity as a whole” (p. 357). The unity of nature is revealed in the “astonishing analogy” between the differential equations of the various realms of phenomena. “The same equations can be regarded as solving the problems of hydro-dynamics and of the theory of potentials. The theory of vortices in fluids and the theory of friction in gases (Gasreibung) reveal a most astonishing analogy to the theory of electromagnetism, etc.” (p. 7). Those who accept “the theory of universal substitution” cannot escape the question: Who was it that thought of “substituting” physical nature so uniformly?

As if in answer to those who brush aside “the physicist of the old school,” Boltzmann relates in detail how certain specialists in “physical chemistry” are adopting an epistemological position contrary to that of Machism. Vaubel, the author of “one of the best” comprehensive works of 1903 (according to Boltzmann), “takes up a definitely hostile attitude towards the so-called phenomenalism so often recommended today” (p. 381). “He tries rather to obtain as concrete and clear an idea as possible of the nature of atoms and molecules and of the forces and agencies acting between them, and this idea he attempts to bring into conformity with the most recent experiments in this field [ions, electrons, radium, Zeeman effect, etc.]. . . . The author strictly adheres to the dualism of matter and energy,[7] which have this in common that each has a special law of conservation. In regard to matter, the author also holds fast to the dualism between ponderable matter and ether, yet regards the latter as material in the strictest sense” (p. 381). In the second volume of his work (theory of electricity) the author “from the very outset takes the view that the phenomena of electricity are determined by the interaction and movement of atom-like entities, the electrons” .
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/five5.htm

In his book Valeur de la science [Value of Science], the famous French physicist Henri Poincaré says that there are “symptoms of a serious crisis” in physics, and he devotes a special chapter to this crisis (Chap. VIII, cf. p. 171). The crisis is not confined to the fact that “radium, the great revolutionary,” is undermining the principle of the conservation of energy. “All the other principles are equally endangered” (p. 180). For instance, Lavoisier’s principle, or the principle of the conservation of mass, has been undermined by the electron theory of matter. According to this theory atoms are composed of very minute particles called electrons, which are charged with positive or negative electricity and “are immersed in a medium which we call the ether.” The experiments of physicists provide data for calculating the velocity of the electrons and their mass (or the relation of their mass to their electrical charge). The velocity proves to be comparable with the velocity of light (300,000 kilometres per second), attaining, for instance, one-third of the latter. Under such circumstances the twofold mass of the electron has to be taken into account, corresponding to the necessity of over coming the inertia, firstly, of the electron itself and, secondly, of the ether. The former mass will be the real or mechanical mass of the electron, the latter the “electrodynamic mass which represents the inertia of the ether.” And it turns out that the former mass is equal to zero. The entire mass of the electrons, or, at least, of the negative electrons, proves to be totally and exclusively electrodynamic in its origin.[8] Mass disappears. The foundations of mechanics are undermined. Newton’s principle, the equality of action and reaction, is undermined, and so on.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/05.htm

 No.527670

>>521184
A fundamental property perhaps?
Not saying it is, just saying that we have no fucking clue either way and calling it an emergent process without describing said process just doesn't hold up in court

 No.527671

>>519778
i hate this meme format. the original joke ("stop doing math") hinged on the fact that idiots could actually understand the alternatives proposed ("NO use for counting higher than your fingers. want to try for a laugh anyway? we have a tool for that: GUESSING"). everyone, even literal children who haven't mastered counting with their fingers, is familiar with "guessing", it's a good joke. every single subject-specific spinoff meme fucks up in the same way by making the situations things that only those familiar with the subject matter will understand. "looking beyond the first order derivatives" - shut up, kids don't know what that means. most adults don't know what that means. not funny.

 No.527688

>>519890
>claim bait isn't believable
<it is believed by many
>"not my fault the bait was believable"

 No.527691

>>527688
It's "bait used to be believable [to me]" since I'm the only one that matters.


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