/siberia/ - Off-topic

>Agent Kochinski
>Hbomb
Who?

>>527507
You could infer from the one-sentence post that they're "internet content creators".

Asking an organization's average theoretician to have read Marx is already pushing it in this day and age.

I think it's a matter of some people being to immersed in audio-visual communication that they literally have underdeveloped literacy. I say as I proceed to link to a youtube video

>>527506
Not everyone has time to read theory, that's why we have the vanguard

>>527506
Honestly, I don't trust content producers to spread socialist ideas among the population, unless they do it as a hobby or affiliated with a party or organization.
Try viewing these guys' work in the context of a post-revolutionary economy (be it Marxist, anarchist, anarcho-xeno-posadist-Nick Land Thought). Perhaps, in the early stages of this social process, the infrastructure or patreons necessary to support breadtubers as an economic niche were not available. Therefore, it is in the interest (conscious or not) of these artists to maintain the current market economy, even if they themselves are not necessarily members of the ruling class. I suspect this is one of the factors that diverts this type of media and its audience towards social-liberalism.
>>527511
The goldfish attention span meme is a factoid.
https://www.ceros.com/inspire/originals/no-dont-attention-span-goldfish/

>>527512
More like not everybody has the will to power trough complicated theory, which is why we have the youtube slop giving them a rundown.

Should I read Marx? Thinking of doing it but in German, since I am learning German.

>>527514
More like not all theory is actually good at communicating the ideas and needs people with even rudimentary knowledge of education to translate it into terms understandable by a human being without a bachelor's in philosophy.

>>527512
The workers that don't read theory will always be dominated and exploited by the ones that do read theory.
The workers should know what is written in capital and Marx works, since in there is the bases of communist society and thought.

>>527516
Marx isn't difficult at all and people who tell you you need to read dozens of other authors to understand him are completely bullshitting.

>>527511
good book on the subject

>>527506
people should be expected to think for themselves and make political decisions as a result

>>527524
What book?

>>527525
marcuse - The Obsolescence of the
Freudian Concept of Man

https://monoskop.org/images/8/81/Marcuse_Herbert_Five_Lectures_Psychoanalysis_Politics_and_Utopia.pdf

>>527508
they know who these people are they just want to pretend they're better at "grass touching" by acting ignorant whenever they're brought up.

>>527512
>>527514
>More like not everybody has the will to power trough complicated theory
It's a matter of both time and willpower. Not one or the other. Single male under-employed introverted bachelor nerds in their early 20s still living with their above average income parents (who are the majority of the imageboard cohort and always will be) tend to overestimate the amount of free time and willpower everyone else has. Go hang out with a single mom your age and see how much of her life is dedicated to working, wiping asses, doing laundry, picking up and dropping off kids at daycare, grocery shopping, washing dishes, cooking, and grooming/bathing/dressing herself and her children to adhere to modern beauty standards, going on dates to find a supportive partner, and going places like bars/clubs/churches for the social scene, and you will realize just how little time some people have to do the activities you deem all proletarians are equally capable of engaging in. Throw in that a lot of people have learning disabilities, physical disabilities, lack of interest in the subject matter, etc and you will see that not everyone can be in the vanguard. And that's OK. The people who read the most theory aren't usually in the vanguard either because they haven't actually joined orgs either or done praxis either.

(t. hypocritical father in his 30s who became Marxist in mid 20s)
>>527517
>The workers that don't read theory will always be dominated and exploited by the ones that do read theory.
That's not how class works. The working class does not exploit itself. At least not in the Marxist sense of the term.

>>527553
Same bullshit excuses as ever. Workers(tm) don't have the time to read but they have the time to scroll social media for hours a day! Ignore that people had even less time a century ago yet could be arsed to read the manifesto at the very least.

>>527506
Philosophy tube actually had a good miniseries on marxism 8 years ago, even though most of their videos bring up mildly interesting points with progressively cringey set dressing. Right now they're just being bong contra.
https://a.uguu.se/atrQaAWW.png

>>527506
>the average proletarian to read Marx are also pushing for internet content creators as a replacement, as if the average proletarian is gonna watch a whole Agent Kochinski stream or 7 hour Hbomb video essay.
you can do both thoughbeit. the "average proletarian" frequently listens to streamers, music and audiobooks or whatever. it's not the xix century

"it worked in the past" is never so terrible a guide as when dealing with media. people used to read theory, but people used to read. then people would watch TV, now everyone uses their phone or computer all day. before writing, people used to speak! epic poems are structured the way they are because - if you can't write it down - that's the best way to help you remember what to say in an oral culture. text and video both run from beginning to end, a linear process in line with the linear trajectory of modernism. you do not live in these ages anymore, you live in the digital age, you live in an age where you jump around incoherently and non-linearly between snippets of different types of content, constantly having your attention grabbed but paying attention to very little.

you can make valliant appeals for people to read old dead tomes, to hop on a horse and gallop off to work, and you can gather around in a reading circle and feel proud of yourself (heretofore the revealed preference of all socialists) or you can confront this reality head-on and adapt information to the dominant media form of the age. if you don't want to - that's fine - someone else will bastardize it and take the retweets you rejected.

>>527506
a lot more people will watch a video essay than will read a book, although their level of information retention will basically be trash.
if you want to say things about the economy and you can't do it with a flowchart or other graphic, just give up. neither a book nor a video essay will appeal to the people smart enough to understand but also smart enough to value their time.

>>527554
people a century ago had far fewer entertainment options you dullard. you are living in an attention economy full of people who are marginally literate. a tome written in semi-antiquated english full of disses against long-dead movements might be a riveting read for the kind of person who naturally becomes a communist nerd, but it's less exciting than having root canal treatment for anyone half normal.

>>527599
>a tome written in semi-antiquated english full of disses against long-dead movements might be a riveting read for the kind of person who naturally becomes a communist nerd, but it's less exciting than having root canal treatment for anyone half normal.
So someone could probably make a modernized version with the current-thingisms of the time scooped out and diagram / drawings added where helpful. Hell maybe even a comic if you can squeeze it down into small enough chunks (1 speech bubble ~= 1 minecraft book page)

>>527518
>Marx isn't difficult at all
I didn't say Marx. There's a lot more theory than Marx.

>>527553
>That's not how class works. The working class does not exploit itself. At least not in the Marxist sense of the term.

How will the workers achieve communism if they don't know what communism is

The average prole probably understands theory more intuitively than the average leftoid.

>>527512
Better men than you translated these works so that other peasants can read them. I guess it just isn't important to you.

>>527630
The leftoid is intuitively drawn back to their OH BOY BIG NEWS liberal consciousness, tempered only by media criticism. They still get their information from the same sources, and think themselves the expert for being able to distinguish fact from fiction, when over 70% of the job is done by information's omission, not either of those.

I actually am proletariat, and I think reading Marx can be a stretch. I'm only just getting back into reading him because I didn't have an understanding of mid nineteenth century politics and philosophy the first time. I don't think you're pampered ass understands how much goes into understanding deep theory when you had a public school education and have to dedicate brain cells to not dying every day.
I think it's preferable for proles to read and understand Marx, but if you think they can't learn the contradictions on their own then you're missing some history yourself.

>>527511
I can't stand this lady, I'm not sure why but I hate her

>>527678
The face and voice are off-putting to me, couldn't watch more than a few seconds.

>>527665
>mid nineteenth century politics and philosophy
you dont need this for his main books………

>>527685
The majority of people I know simply don't have the tools or context to jump straight in to Marx, and I think asking them to start there rather than with more palatable theory is dismissive. Granted I'm not the brightest crayon in the drawer, it took establishing a lot of context for his writing to start making real sense. And once the math starts happening I'm still out.

>>527511
Is she fedtube?

>>527515
people regularly do wild misreadings of marx in their native tongue. I'd say only do it in a second language as a supplement to understanding unless you are fluent in that language.

>>527735
— 18 —
What will be the course of this revolution?
Above all, it will establish a democratic constitution, and through this, the direct or indirect dominance of the proletariat. Direct in England, where the proletarians are already a majority of the people. Indirect in France and Germany, where the majority of the people consists not only of proletarians, but also of small peasants and petty bourgeois who are in the process of falling into the proletariat, who are more and more dependent in all their political interests on the proletariat, and who must, therefore, soon adapt to the demands of the proletariat. Perhaps this will cost a second struggle, but the outcome can only be the victory of the proletariat.

Democracy would be wholly valueless to the proletariat if it were not immediately used as a means for putting through measures directed against private property and ensuring the livelihood of the proletariat. The main measures, emerging as the necessary result of existing relations, are the following:

(i) Limitation of private property through progressive taxation, heavy inheritance taxes, abolition of inheritance through collateral lines (brothers, nephews, etc.) forced loans, etc.

(ii) Gradual expropriation of landowners, industrialists, railroad magnates and shipowners, partly through competition by state industry, partly directly through compensation in the form of bonds.

(iii) Confiscation of the possessions of all emigrants and rebels against the majority of the people.

(iv) Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.

(v) An equal obligation on all members of society to work until such time as private property has been completely abolished. Formation of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

(vi) Centralization of money and credit in the hands of the state through a national bank with state capital, and the suppression of all private banks and bankers.

(vii) Increase in the number of national factories, workshops, railroads, ships; bringing new lands into cultivation and improvement of land already under cultivation – all in proportion to the growth of the capital and labor force at the disposal of the nation.

(viii) Education of all children, from the moment they can leave their mother’s care, in national establishments at national cost. Education and production together.

(ix) Construction, on public lands, of great palaces as communal dwellings for associated groups of citizens engaged in both industry and agriculture and combining in their way of life the advantages of urban and rural conditions while avoiding the one-sidedness and drawbacks of each.

(x) Destruction of all unhealthy and jerry-built dwellings in urban districts.

(xi) Equal inheritance rights for children born in and out of wedlock.

(xii) Concentration of all means of transportation in the hands of the nation.

Education IS one of the most important missions to the communist revolution to achieve communism

Empirically, communism is only possible as the act of the dominant peoples “all at once” and simultaneously, which presupposes the universal development of productive forces and the world intercourse bound up with communism. Moreover, the mass of propertyless workers – the utterly precarious position of labour – power on a mass scale cut off from capital or from even a limited satisfaction and, therefore, no longer merely temporarily deprived of work itself as a secure source of life – presupposes the world market through competition. The proletariat can thus only exist world-historically, just as communism, its activity, can only have a “world-historical” existence. World-historical existence of individuals means existence of individuals which is directly linked up with world history.

"From the moment all members of society, or at least the vast majority, have learned to administer the state themselves, have taken this work into their own hands, have organized control over the insignificant capitalist minority, over the gentry who wish to preserve their capitalist habits and over the workers who have been thoroughly corrupted by capitalism — from this moment the need for government of any kind begins to disappear altogether. The more complete the democracy, the nearer the moment when it becomes unnecessary. The more democratic the "state" which consists of the armed workers, and which is "no longer a state in the proper sense of the word", the more rapidly every form of state begins to wither away.

"Then the door will be thrown wide open for the transition from the first phase of communist society [Socialism] to its higher phase [Communism], and with it the complete withering away of the state.

>if self-identified communists don't know what communism is, it's the job of a revolutionary communist party to recruit and train them
No. The Communist Party is the most advanced section of the proletariat, it's not its job to educate non-proletarian elements that may join it.
Insofar as non-proletarians join the party, it is their job to supply educative elements to the party, not the party's job to waste its time and energy to try to educate them instead. The workers’ movement will do just fine without petit-bourgeois leftists.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1879/09/17.htm

>>527826
Nobody argues this but idiots. There was already a wave of revolutions in the early 20th century that didn't happen "all at once". Where they failed, especially the USSR as the only one that achieved a DotP, was in expanding socialism to the rest of the world.

>>527936
The proletariat should know what communism is. No society can work without education, doesn't matter what type or what ideology you have. If the people are gonna govern themselves, they need to know how to govern. Is that simple
>>527937
This piece is talking about communism, you know, classless, stateless moneyless society, which was not yet been achieved. I agree that is idiotic to expect communism only when full world domination is achieved, but that was not the point. Communism IS a state of affairs to be established by the vanguard party. It will not just "wither away" and disappear by magic. Some examples of what will exist in this "communist society" by Engels can be found here: >>527824
The soviet union was a DotP, not communism, i hope you can understand this.

What does the proletariat need right now? It's pretty simple: a podcast about another podcast about a book that's about another book that's about a pamphlet from 1895 that was about another pamphle