Leftcel edition.
A leftcel differs from an incel in that they do not blame women or jews for the male loneliness epidemic, but capitalism.
Previous thread :
>>682926"We have often heard discussions of the reason we do not find women, as a sex, in the vanguard of world affairs; why the great educators, strong figures in progressive or revolutionary movements, are men rather than women; why these movements, themselves, are made up almost entirely of men rather than women… We believe the answer lies in the fact that women, as a sex, are the owners of a commodity vitally necessary to the health and well-being of man. Women occupy a more fortunate biologic, and in many countries, a more fortunate economic position, in the increasingly intensified struggle for existence. And the preferred class, the biologically and economically favored class, or sex, has rarely been efficient-to-do, has never been revolutionary to attack a social system that accords advantage to it."
"As a sex, women occupy a position similar to the petty shop-keeper, because they possess a commodity to sell or to barter. Men, as a sex, are buyers of, or barterers for, this commodity. The general attitude on this question of sex may be, and in fact usually is, wholly unconscious; but the fact remains that men and women meet each other, in the capitalist system, as buyers and sellers of, or barterers for, a commodity."
"Few people speak frankly about sex matters today. And still fewer understand them and their economic basis. The subject of sex is clothed in pretense. We discuss women philosophically, idealistically, sometimes from the viewpoint of biology, but never from an economic and a biological standpoint, which is the only scientific basis from which to regard them."
"And so women, not every individual, but as a sex, are ever individualistic, ever competing among themselves, ever displaying their wares, ever looking for a possible purchaser of the commodity they have to sell, ever endeavoring to keep the purchaser satisfied and willing to pay more."
"The psychology of the sexes in youth is totally different. The ideas of the average young man are those of one who expects to become some day a producer or at least a worker; the ideas of the average young woman are those of one who expects and intends (for here, too, Youth sees only personal victory) to rise into the leisure, non-producing or supported class."
"We are making no claim that the lot of millions of housekeeping mothers, married to working men, is more enviable than is the condition of their husbands. We merely wish to point out that millions of women, potentially, actually, or psychologically, are "of the leisure class," and that fact and expectation keep women, as a sex, allied to the forces of reaction. When a woman is competing in a life and death struggle among a score of other young women, to make a permanent legal bargain which entails the promise of an income or support for life, she has little leisure or energy to spare in making over, or revolutionizing the present social system."
"It is evident, whether due to one cause or to many, that the law, which usually protects those who possess bestowable favors, has gradually built up strong protective measures for women. Among the rich, men and women find protection for their property in the laws, according to the measure of their economic power, but among the wage working and middle classes, woman occupies a privileged legal position."
"No matter what the offense of the woman, custom and public opinion demand that every 'decent' man permit his wife to accuse him on 'just grounds' and to secure the divorce and call on the law to force him to pay her alimony for the rest of their natural lives."
"The laws today protect the owners of property and the economically powerful. The more economic power a group, or a class, or a sex possesses, the more the state throws the mantle of its protective laws about it. Women are owners of a commodity for which men are buyers or barterers, and our modern laws protect woman at the expense of man."
"In his 'Origin of the Family,' Engels says:
'The supremacy of man in marriage is simply the consequence of his economic superiority and will fall with the abolition of the latter.'
In a large per cent of the American homes, man no longer possesses any economic superiority. He has four vital needs to satisfy while woman has only three, and woman possesses, for barter, for sale, or for gift, the wherewithall to satisfy one of these."
"Few men any longer possess any property worthy of the name; hence, they are forced to sell their labor power for wages to keep from starving. And men are not always able to secure jobs."
"The propertyless woman today is rarely reduced to starvation. If the price (or wages) offered for the sale of her laboring power are unsatisfactory, she may always supplement them through the barter or sale of her sex. That there are no women hoboes in the civilized world today is incontestable proof of the superiority of the economic status of woman over man."
"Women compete for jobs with men today, force down wages to a lower level and demand more from men before they will marry. And yet we see $25.00 a week stenographers giving up their positions to barter themselves, presumably for life, to $35.00 a week clerks or salesmen, rarely because of the mating instinct, but usually because of the personal triumph this means in the competition between members of the sex, and the social approbation which marriage brings."
"Undoubtedly, in the New Society, conditions will be very much changed for women. But they will also be greatly changed for men. What the future sex relations will be, we do not pretend to know. Perhaps the statement by Frederick Engels in his 'Origin of the Family,' is as good a forecast as any. He says:
'What we may anticipate about the adjustment of sexual relations after the impending downfall of capitalist production is mainly of a negative nature and mostly confined to elements that will disappear. But what will be added? That will be decided after a new generation has come to maturity: a race of men who never in their lives have had any occasion for buying with money or other economic means of power the surrender of a woman; a race of women who have never had any occasion for surrendering to any man for any other reason but love, or for refusing to surrender to their lover from fear of economic consequences. Once such people are in the world, they will not give a moment's thought to what we today believe should be their course. They will follow their own practice and fashion their own public opinion about the individual practice of every person—only this and nothing more.'"
>>689708"Paternal instinct is, we suspect, a minus, rather than a plus, quantity. It seems to us that fathers more often learn to love their children through following the conduct prescribed by good form and pretending to love them, or through love of display, pride or by association, than through any "natural tendency."
"Why, do you imagine, the woman who brings to a penniless husband, not only herself but a fortune as well, is looked down upon in many countries? Why is the woman of the streets, who spends her sex earnings upon her lover, scorned universally? Is it not because both are unconsciously violating the code, or the trade "understandings," in giving not only of themselves, but their substance as well? These women are selling below the market, or scabbing on the job."
"Women are becoming ever more necessary and important in the role they play in industry. With this growing economic importance, and with the increasing need of capitalism for more children to augment the labor and military supply, the power of women will probably increase marvelously during the next few years. Governments will reward the surrender of woman to man, while employers compete among themselves for her labor power. Much will be offered to women."
>>689708i just read through it. i think its mostly accurate, but a little outdated, especially the later sections, which is fine considering it was written at a time period when women were less present in the job market
still, the author put into words a lot of things that i always noticed and thought, but could never explain as well as he did, and its unfortunate that his argument would be considered heresy to most modern leftists who claim to be "materialists" but run away from any material analysis the moment it reaches an uncomfortable conclusion
at its core relationships between men and women are mostly economic transactions hidden away by ideology that tries to make it look more attractive and romantic. the authors so right in his analysis of female psychology, the little "privileges" they are afforded and how their ideology tends to be more reactionary.
also this part is pretty funny
>Why is the woman of the streets, who spends her sex earnings upon her lover, scorned universally? Is it not because both are unconsciously violating the code, or the trade "understandings," in giving not only of themselves, but their substance as well? These women are selling below the market, or scabbing on the job.i never thought of it this way but it makes so much sense, women hate promiscuous women because they see them as scabs who are bringing down the market price of sex, thats so fuckin funny
>>689803so how did burgers let 16 year olds drive? still baffles me how low it is compared to my cunt
the deep car state controls the country
>>689708this is fucking stupid.
I agree that many feminists and leftists often dismiss a need for sex as a vital biological need, but it is ridiculous to claim, as does this text, that it is any more vital for men than it is for women. I can tell you from my experience as a pathetic not-quite-incel that all you really need to survive comfortably is a form of masturbation that works for you. sex with another person is better, but it is a more psychological or social need than a biological need, and women need/want it as much as men.
also, there are definitely women 'hoboes' in every single 'civilized' country. this author doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about, even a little bit.
>>689648It sucks because having taste of a lesbian means being into lesbians. Who are not into you.
>>689839>I’m a nice guylmao
>>689839you are not awkward, you are ugly
if you want to prove me wrong please doxx yourself
>>689902FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING UYGHUR I HATE YOU
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE BUT UNINTELLIGIBLE MONKEY BABBLE
FUCK YOUUUU
>>689905>signed some binding social contract with societyframing it in contractual terms is bourgeois nonsense but humans are social animals, there are no individuals without society. what are the specific terms? whatever you are able to get away with
there are many things in life where being nice is a good attribute, specially being proactively nice: doing things, helping people, reaching out, etc.
>>689817Why not, though?
Besides the amount of teen drivers has declined since the 2000s.
If teens are old enough to do jail time, old enough to ride the bus by themselves, and old enough to work, why not have them learn to drive?
>>689927>When I see stuff like this, I feel like Americans make us regress worldwide back to teenage banter as arguments instead of taking care of their societal problems. Irony is, I hear more jokes and discussions about sex as an adult than as a teenager.
Also, most of this toxic dross about sex is other countries, particularly Latin America and Middle East.
>>689839No offense but I. tired of people taking out their misery on young people.
Just because you didn't have a happy youth doesn't mean that your juniors should not.
>I’m a nice guy under my social awkwardness,That's a big red flag
"I'm a nice guy" = "I'm not like other girls"
Also, a lot of young women feel the same way about older men like you immiserating the youth with their midlife crisis.
>>689902Who wants to bet that girl is just doing trolling?
We have guys wearing edgy statements on shirts for laughs, especially sexual innuendo, but when a girl does it, it's considered "disrespectful"?
>>689723>>689708This is kinda wrong.
Women are catered to, yes, but it's not their fault nor do they ask for it.
Men are the ones who infantilise them.
Also, most women nowadays have a mentality of wanting to make their own riches.
They don't want a husband.
Fewer still want children
This excerpt reads as subconscious chud logic .
Also, dads are capable of loving their kids but again, gender role expectations stunt their affection drive.
>>690063the last 2 panels are retarded and clearly made by a faggot with a cuck fetish
but the first panel is actually funny and represents modern dating quite well
>>690092Dating sites are literally built to:
- erode your self-esteem / otherwise subscribe you to spooked mental frameworks to misdirect one's self-esteem.
- Set you up with algorithmically determined to be pleasant but doomed dates to keep you on the platform
- Regular proprietary centralized platform shit about data collection and such.
Dating sites don't work, and the few people I know that met eachother on dating sites are in unloving marriages.
Develop a skill, use fedi to socialize in a non-algorithmically manipulated context with people with that skill, and go to conventions of people with that skill.
>>689708>>689723Trvke. I had some bad feelings about the excerpts but the book (booklet? the page sizes are tiny) made a very compelling point about why we no longer live under patriarchy.
>In order to insure the faithfulness of the wife, and the reliability of paternal lineage, the women were given absolutely into the power of the men. Husbands had power of life and death over their wives. In certain countries today it is only the man who can dissolve the marriage bonds and cast off his wife.>But gradually the old standards which were applied to men and women are changing. New laws are written on our statute books. Civil laws protecting male rule apply only to the wealthy classes and their intercourse with the working class. In sex relations the sentiment, in America particularly, has swung around in favor of woman.>Undoubtedly her growing economic independence, arising from her ability to support herself in shop and factory, has had some influence on this social attitude. Also, one can imagine the feelings of the tax-payers of a small community when the father of several small children deserted his wife and the expenses of supporting his family devolved upon them. It would call for little imagination to picture these respectable members of society scrambling to pass laws for the punishment of the errant one and to force him back to his wife and support-producing labor. But, basically, the legal favoritism which has arisen in the past thirty years in America, is probably due to a desire on the part of the employing class to protect and make secure the mothers of children for the sake of the future labor supply. Only recently a great national reform body, dedicated to child welfare, declared frankly that there are "no illegitimate" children; that the misdeeds of parents can remove nothing from the legality of birth and that unmarried mothers must be granted some legal status and a measure of economic security for the sake of the future supply of labor.>It is evident, whether due to one cause or to many, that the law, which usually protects those who possess bestowable favors, has gradually built up strong protective measures for women. Among the rich, men and women find protection for their property in the laws, according to the measure of their economic power, but among the wage working and middle classes, woman occupies a privileged legal position.It doesn't make much sense to say that we live in a patriarchy when the law doesn't go out of its way to defend patrilineality, or in the case of France, explicitly bans the supposed patriarch from establishing that the children are his. Patrilineality is the point.
Another part of the book makes the overall point much better than what any of the excerpts the post provided make.
>Women are potential parasites even if they never become real ones, and this is the gist of the matter we are discussing. Why are nearly all small farmers reactionary, individualistic, distrustful, competitive? Because they hope some day to become gentleman farmers. Why are most small business men narrow, egoistic, conservative? For the reason that they hope one day to become men of Big Business. The young woman in America today possesses the same psychology. Being young, she not only hopes, she expects, to rise into the leisure class when some young man asks her for the privilege of supporting her through life.This is really not up to discussion, at least in a large, if shrinking, portion of more "traditional" women.
I agree that the book can read as somewhat bitter, but it's probably mostly an effect of incels saying the same while being bitter about it all over the Internet. Marxists are no strangers to seeing misery of whole classes as irrelevant or even positive.
>>690468>Muh pedophilia Seriously, this is starting to be come autistic
If you call anything outside of sexual predation of children as pedophilic, then you have some maturity problems
>>690471Wrong.
Men need to learn filter women
"Take what you can get" is why a lot of us end up getting fucked over.
Women have to filter too and they don't end up with a lot of men for their choosing.
>>690492This is exaggeration
Those MFS are an outlier. They had money
>>690494Well I've only seen one of those signals in 24 years of my life
>>690506>Muh money Many women love literal lumpenproles, I'm talking about criminals, drug dealers and such. But I think women care less about looks than men, just look at how men treat unattractive women
>>690494i think its fun to ignore these hints and watch how long they drop more hints until they give up without ever trying to start an actual conversation. they then will try with the next best guy. often enough, women aren't that picky at all anyway and will leave with some average looking dude.
likewise, i had enough females tell me how guys never pick up on cues. of course, this is the guys' fault.
females are just as insecure and messed up as guys.
>>690620see>>689708
they don't have to. it's a sellers market. you don't bite? next one will.
which is why i ignore most of their 'cues' and 'hints'. i'm not a dildo on two legs, even if general consensus seems to be that men are mostly that.
>>690654>>690658If your definition of pedophilia is you g adults dating older adults then you have a maturity problem.
>>690663They've been infantilised by our stranger danger culture
>>690675>starting to think maybe some men don't want love, but adoration for an empty egoAs if though women aren't like that as well.
But speaking of "adoration for an empty ego", that's what politics is all about, especially on imageboards.
>>690653Whats there to debunk if there isn't any proof?
Also, using "literally" for anything that isn't the exact definition is hyperbole.
But then again, imageboard users are not well known for healthy sense of perspective.
They view everything in hyberbole.
Main character syndrome at its finest.
Anything that you don't like is "fascist", "misogynistic" "racist" and/or "pedophilic"
>>690676>As if though women aren't like that as well.oh they absolutely are
it's just, women don't simp as much as men, they expect getting simped over, so to be a man and be simped over by women, that's extra validating
Gonna try to keep this concise. I have a female friend. My best guy friend used to have a thing for her. Ive always considered her a good friend, we genuinely vibe, and while I've been semi-flirty with her, i never really considered her an option.
She's been away on foreign exchange until a couple months back. My friend has expressed mild interest in trying to pursue something, but he's fairly nonchalant about it and it's clear by now nothing will happen between the two of them. However, I've found myself falling for her pretty hard. We banter all the time and seem to have good chemistry. She's even been sort of flirty with me (e.g. she's called me "Anon-ie boy" - obviously didn't say "anon" - or "sporty boy" and so forth). I've thought about pursuing something, but I've been antsy because of my guy friend. Bros before hoes, right?
Today I learned from a different friend that she does, in fact, like me. She's told people about it. Openly. Truthfully, I know I'll regret it if I don't make a move. I really like her. I've never vibed with any girl like this. But I'm afraid I'm going to destroy my friendship with my guy friend.
I guess it should be common sense or bro code, but I just wonder what I should do. The friend who told me she liked me is pushing for me to go for it despite it all, but I'm doubtful. Should I talk to my friend, or is the only winning move not to play?
>>690701It's over for him, maybe never even began. if he was a real homie, he would understand completely. Especially since she confessed. These chances slip away. Talk to him sure. But of he is butthurt, then its on him. Do it or you'll bitch and moan about it for the rest of your life.
TLDR: Do it or you are a big baby bitch
>>690716Always gonna be some risk to anything worth doing. I understand. It's almost a Catch 22.
>>690715Gonna have to. We're supposed to hang out soon. I'll have to talk to him about it then.
>>690756self-improvement
lower your standards
therapy
>>690703Unless it's a family member (Or your friend is a geniue good friend) then no bro code is bullshit because friends come and go.
My former friend's hot girlfriend showed me interest back then (in front of him too) and to this day I still regret not having sex with her. He was an asshole anyways and they almost broke up because of she showed interest in me. Don't get spooked by male honor codes like bro code too much.
>>690699Why?
I just wish i was beautiful that is all
>>690762lol if u actually said that to a woman she'd seethe hard
accountability is the one word they dont understand
>>690756>disgusting scrotes, I wish I were a lesbian, but damn, when this moid talked to me and I saw his boybutt, I became wet all suddenly, I feel so grossI love this website.
>>690807Is this Kate NV or Taylor Swift?
>>690807Another blackpill today?
What is the point of it? Tall man good manlet bad?
>>690761This
>>690809Wrong. It's REDPILL.
Blackpill is not caring anymore.
Redpills care too much and think themselves as "too cool for you"
>>690810That's why I think a lot of insults and caricatures should be done away with because they desensitize the reality of such things.
>>690762Mandatory life skill training in schools.
No child should be allowed to graduate without knowing how to cook, clean, do finances, change tires, change diapers, make clothes, etc.
>>690902i actually don't know who that is but i just noticed the style is similar. Joe/Lily used to call her genre man-on-the-street interviews
why is there no Dirtbag Left man-on-the-street interviewer?
>>690937FUCKING FUCK FUCK FUCKING SHIT. used to litsen to his stuff
hope afterlife is real so Lemmy gives him a round where they are
>>690865Well let me rephrase:
If you go after women specifically because they are flat chested, you are a pedophile. Dating a flat chested woman doesn't automatically make you one.
>>690999Wrong. Going after women because they're under eighteen is pedophilia.
Stop stretching the definition to non sequitor things
>>690835>>690865These are all wrong.
If eighteen and nineteen is old enough to fight in war, how are they too young to date older adults?
"Half your age plus seven" is a rule for age sensitive people
>>690701The more I think it over the more I realize it's a bad idea. Gonna probably let this go. Wish something would just work out normally for once instead of causing all sorts of grief.
This was probably my last shot at having a relationship blossom naturally instead of with a fucking app, too. My friends don't have any other friends to introduce me to, I don't meet anyone when I go out… I'm over it all.
>you're a pussyI know but I have a trip coming up next month and my guy friend is coming so I don't want to fuck up the vibe now
>>691434before looksmaxxing was a thing i was pretty much into lookism in the worst way possible, i wished i looked like hernan drago not just for me, because i heard there are women who almost paid to have a one night stand with him to have their wildest fantasies because of how attractive he is. even married women…women generally don't pay for sex, that's how attractive he must have been i figured at the time, i spent over a decade trying so hard to look as attractive, and the pathetic part?, it wasn't for my own self or health, it was to please what women want and go crazy wet for.
it was to be as approachable and valued to the point even girls in a relationship or married start treating you like an option just like him. it was then i started thinking clear, maybe im lying to myself, i don't really want love like i had always dreamed of, what i wanted was being admired, feeling like a stereotypical chad that sleeps around with women, drowns in them chasing him, putting all struggles of impressing and chasing on the girls and not me, a guy. and it made me feel like a bad person, you don't want true love, you want to pump and dump because you spent your whole life lonely and feeling less valuable than others, no women ever finding you attractive.
so seeing lookism get out of hand online, this psl god trend. it makes me sick to my stomach, all my evil desires to just be a 9/10, they are normal.
>>691379>relationships are ruined because we have a generation of narcissistic dopamine addicts who can barely communicate with their own parentsIsn't that what they said about millennials?
Also if you ever listen to older men talk about women, it's actually way more toxic.
And yet they're not held in contempt.
>>691439Looksmaxxing was always a thing so was lookism.
Fashion trends were more dangerous back then
In some ethnocultures women had to stack heavy metal rings around their neck, others had women bind their feet, others had men get painful piercings or be circumcised.
We had people bleaching their skin to be white.
Now we have people tanning their skin to be brown.
We live in an age of AI and cartoon graphics
Why can't people use those for romance stories?
Live action romnce feels weird.
Always had even as a kid.
>>691262>>691261>>691258If you notice, older women are kinda like that too. Even back in the good old days.
There are less women wanting relationships overall.
Because they're jaded just like men are.
Alot of single moms prefer to raise kids by themselves because Mommy's bf is a bitch.
Same story of single dads.
Before social media, women were addicted to TV dramas. Before that radio plays.
But, of you lived in ethnic communities they're all obsessed with horoscopy or "religious" shit.
>>691500Great, more chud propaganda.
Yes these things can cause low T but it's not like machismo in itself can be achieved by testosterone alone.
Also, we had people do a lot of drinking back then and suffer from vitamin deficiency that caused illness
>>691558Umm, he was
Thats what flirting is for
>>691638Wrong. What's creepy is that their definition of bad behavior from men is exaggerated.
Women should have creep detection networks
But men should have the same as well.
>>691552Yes.
Just like how a lot of men are jaded from their own choices
>>691698Just like incels. Most of you reek of entitlement just like your male counterpart
>>691593That guy isn't remotely ugly.
He's not photogenic, sure but he ain't ugly.
>>691569No you shut up. You keep blaming zoomers or boomers for everything wrong
Middle child syndrome at its finest.
Also, blaming tech for social problems is ironic. Have you seen the way fashion trends used to treat people in the past? How people whom were ugly/single after thirty were seen?
>>691617This. Romantic love is more shallow and unstable than self love. In fact, romantic love can only survive on adoration.
Everyone wants to be adored more than being loved.
>>691710I would hate to see how you people would fare in the early half of the Industrial Revolution.
Lots of grindset mentality, mindless entertainment ah galore, lots of miserable people having to retire to crummy apartments.
>>691287Not exactly true. They had to have some business or glory days phase for that to happen
But you're right otherwise.
Women don't respect male innocence.
Most people don't.
If you're a young adult male and you're not worldly nor assertive, you get no respect from peers nor elders.
>>691261>>691258Women over thirty behave like this as well
I see more bitter entitlement from women in their thirties and early forties than mid-late twenties.
>>691698>most of us femcels are jsut fucking depressed and sit around cutting and doing shit online all daySame is true for incels tbh. Hope you feel better and get your shit together soon anon.
>>691640Men would get blasted for misogyny if they used a gossip app to spite their exes and women they had shitty dates with.
>>691710On the one hand, I get what you mean.
However, I feel this sentiment is too whiney.
"Where's the magic in this?"
Pure idealism
No different from boomers who feel entitled to have the world go back to a specific style of contemporary culture.
>>691727This. It's like I said in
>>691715>>691732>"Uglier" version of pic related>Pic related is not even ugly>>691866>Men would get blasted for misogyny if they used a gossip app to spite their exes and women they had shitty dates with.This.
Women can gossip about men and even each other but if men were to mention a female associate in passing, even if they're not talking about her sexually, it's considered "misogynistic".
The best way for men to survive this landscape is to invest in VR porn or AI sexbots
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