/siberia/ - Off-topic

I dont know if Tolkien still maintained the "Orcs= Mongols" allusion or if he changed it eventually but an unintended headcanon i get from that is that Orc women not only do exist but there are matriarchal Orc societies. Because that's how nomadic and tribal societies were

>>722460
>>722449
what about dwarf women
this is important

>>722616
how do dwarven women that have twins or more give birth? the process must be a fuckin nightmare sizewise

what if they were asexual tho

autistic interests: war!!

>>722460
Given that orcs are generally supposed to be significantly more durable than humans in most interpretations, it's entirely possible they never formed a patriarchy because lady orcs would be much less at risk of dying in childbirth and therefore having orc queens or whatever wouldn't pose the same risk to stability when it came to producing heirs (major chance of the monarch dying while trying to secure succession). Also they are so focused on strength it's likely that they wouldn't even have a genetic line of succession anyway and just allow whoever is strongest to take the lead, which would also remove the material basis for patriarchy since you no longer care about having a legitimate inheritance which is the motivation for controlling female reproduction so obsessively.

They would probably still primarily use male soldiers simply because you don't need as many males to achieve replacement or growth fertility rates, but they might develop some system where they trade around the fertile orc males based on perceived fitness in order to ensure there are enough baby orcs. If anything that would probably incentivize avoiding any kind of genetic inheritance tradition because then a minority of orc fathers would be claiming some kind of rights over their children. An actual full on matriarchy might actually make some sense in this context, with the males actually having a lower status as soldiers and sperm donors primarily.

>>722616
Gimli says Dwarf women have beards too and outsiders often can't tell (not clear how serious he is) but I prefer the notion that any dwarf could be male or female and you just would never know by looking. Tolkien I think actually talks about dwarves having fewer female children than males and therefore being very careful to protect them because it poses issues for maintaining the population.

>>722622
Dwarves are tougher than humans not so unlike orcs (at least if we go by typical stats given to them and tropes about them) so might be easier for dwarves than humans to give birth same as it probably is for orcs.

>>722661
There's versions of both dwarves and orcs where they are asexually reproducing, and LotR even references this idea, with Gimli talking about dwarves allegedly popping out of the ground (which the movies show is part of the process of breeding Uruk-hai).

>>722688
this guy knows his fantasy lore, impressive stuff anon.

>forget the meat menu question this is more important
if we talking about the copypasta about meat's back on the menu. i imagine orcs do not have restaurants in the human sense with tipping but canteens similar to army chow halls with quote on quote cooks and grog brewers, and the menu is what you ask him is roasted today
<oi Nazhgu, we ran out of humie meat

sex fetish for orcs aside, also since the scene shows them tossing heads over the walls it opens up a new line of questions, that's an actual tactic they use for intimidation, whose's the first orc to discover it? was it some sun tzu like orc figure with records of experience? but orcs can't read or write for shit so how did this tactic spread? how do they teach their tactics to their newer recruits? and how do they train new orc cadets to become captains? is it just a game of kill your superior war chief? and since they have the logistics to make massive siege towers and muster hordes with organised formations…this implies they have some coherent communication during sieges, how does one orc chief contact another from another side of a besieged city for orders or reinforcement if they can't write or read? do they just make their warg messengers send it verbally?

>>722704
im not an expert on tolkien by any mean, but my feel on his lore building that isnt linguistic is "its magic bro I aint gotta explain shit, I write what I feel like is cool"

>>722688
>Gimli says Dwarf women have beards too and outsiders often can't tell (not clear how serious he is) but I prefer the notion that any dwarf could be male or female and you just would never know by looking.
This used to be presented as a funny little fun fact that everyone rolled with and played with every now and then, but now if you bring it up it gets called woke libtard revisionism and that you're a transhumanist trying to destroy female beauty or something even if it's just some peach fuzz

>>722722
Discworld kind of takes it to a logical extreme
>As Tolkien implied of his dwarves, Discworld dwarfs of both sexes have beards. However, while Tolkien stated that female dwarves are rare, and disguise themselves as male when they must travel, female Discworld dwarfs are common, but are traditionally indistinguishable from males at all times. Dwarfs prefer not to spend much time on the subject; the dwarfish language has a gender neutral pronoun, usually rendered as "he" when speaking human languages. Dwarfish courtship is an incredibly tactful affair, primarily concerned with finding out which gender the other dwarf is. Despite the awkwardness that comes of this, it is traditionally considered rude to discuss female dwarfs in conversation.

>>722702
There's way weirder cultural references than menus, like Middle Earth already has golf. "Back on the menu" could be interpreted as a translation thing, but not vidrel.

>>722704
Tolkien orcs are generally commanded by someone higher ranking so Saruman or Sauron or anybody under them (like evil men in command roles) could have come up with it and explained how. I don't think orcs are ever really meant to be like extremely stupid either they probably could come up with some brutal tactics for war.

But Tolkien orcs probably have folklore. Like they socialize and they speak so it's pretty inevitable they'd be passing down knowledge. I imagine orcs must have their versions of myths and legends, probably focused on fighting since they like that so much. In the same way that humans impart life lessons, orcs probably tell stories to teach about accomplishments in wars to inspire others to similar achievement.

As for communication and planning, they probably have better ability to do this than the armies of men do. The orcs are supposed to be at an early stage of industrialization which means they probably know a good amount about specialization and standardization (despite how their gear is usually portrayed as random scraps. Pretty sure they are shown using war drums and horns as a way to signal to the troops too.

>>722702
>Pic
>how do orcs eat bread
don't they in Tolkien lore occupy an area with green grass outside Mordor and employ slave labour like spartan helots? maybe their slaves makes it from the wheat and it goes transported, bread isn't some sophisticated man technology i assume orc bakers are a thing, just shove shit together add random plants and knead the dough

>>722702
>>722751
Mordor is evil, so they use slaves.

In fact, since orcs are evil, they don't really like to do any work themselves and prefer slaves to do it, though if they have to do work they prefer doing things like tearing down the local flora, tunneling and building and operating their subterranean orc forges. The only way you're going to get an orc to be a miller or a baker is if you enslave him and force him to do it.

The books say that Mordor uses slaves provided by Harad to make their food and that its all shipped in from an area to the southeast of Mordor.

I feel like those who try to portray Tolkien's orcs as some kind of downtrodden working class like to conveniently forget that they are canonically consummate slavers who hate working themselves.

>>722460
The Mongols weren't matriarchal, Genghis Khan's mother was kidnapped by his father and then forcibly married to him, this was a common practice in nomadic societies until Genghis Khan himself banned it. Now Genghis Khan's mother did have a lot of influence on him but thats mostly because his dad died and he was essentially surviving on barely nothing with his mother and his half brother, whom he eventually killed.

What a bizarre thread.