/siberia/ - Off-topic

Whatever arthropod suffers the least, which is probably the one with the least developed nervous system. If insects can suffer, it is our moral duty to destroy the ecosystem in order to prevent as many insects and other lifeforms that can suffer from being born.

https://benthams.substack.com/p/thinking-insect-suffering-is-the

>I think insect suffering is the worst thing in the world by far. I know it sounds weird! But please hear me out—ideally with an open mind!
>Many views seem intuitive but only because of bias. To southern slave-owners, the permissibility of slavery was intuitive. But this was only as a result of bias and a profound failure of empathy. They only considered things from their own perspectives, never thinking about what it would be like to be a tormented and subjugated slave. Had they done so, they’d have correctly judged slavery to be the abomination it was.
>I think the same thing is true about insect suffering. People have the strong intuition that it doesn’t matter at all. But when one really reflects, this turns out to be for unreliable and superficial reasons. Insect suffering is genuinely important, and we only neglect it because of bias and irrationality. I think there are four considerations which when considered collectively make vivid the significance of the 10^18 insects presently suffering.

>>726085
I agree strongly that insect suffering matters, but your conclusion is completely wrong. Wiping life out is worse than suffering, because even an awful life is better than death, which is oblivion. And anyway, how can you know that insects are happy or not, or that they think life is worth living or not? Surely they experience positive emotions or stimuli when they find food or a mate, or if they are social, work for the group. Even if their lives are short and likely to end in awful death, that does not mean their lives are meaningless.

I actually am writing a novella on this subject (it is not very well written to be honest, I am just writing whatever and not drafting). I will link it in a moment.

Instead of this nihilism that does not help anyone or the insects you claim to care about, we can take practical steps to improve quality of life for all complex animals. This will have to take place probably after socialism has won and the transition to communism has started, so instead of thinking of how to kill off life, if you really care you should be helping revolutionary organising.

>>726085
Wrong. Kill all mosKKKitos and bedbugSS.

>>726086
>And anyway, how can you know that insects are happy or not, or that they think life is worth living or not? Surely they experience positive emotions or stimuli when they find food or a mate, or if they are social, work for the group.
Simon Knutsson did an analysis on this and came to the conclusion that the lives of insects are most likely terrible.

https://www.simonknutsson.com/how-good-or-bad-is-the-life-of-an-insect

>If I died and was offered to be born again as an insect or cease to exist, I would definitely choose not to exist. This essay focuses on the quality of life of honey bees because they are well-studied, and on what have been suggested to be the most numerous insects: springtails, ants, termites, and aquatic insects such as mayflies and midges (although some sources no longer classify springtails as insects). There is enormous inequality among the fates of insects. Some die very young, either as larvae, pupae, or just after having emerged from the pupa stage as adults, and it is difficult to see how most such lives can be good on balance. Death often seems very painful so, because their lives are so short, they do not include enough positive wellbeing to compensate their suffering. On the other hand, successful honey bee queens can live for years while being fed, protected, and taken care of by others. In general, though, honey bees live short lives. The vast majority of them are workers who live on average only about 15–38 days as adults during summer. Mayflies and some midges have even shorter adult lives—they never eat, and they die within a few days. Ants and other kinds of insects live longer. This is probably fortunate from a population perspective, since it means fewer deaths per unit of time, although it may not be better for any individual to live longer.