/siberia/ - Off-topic

Ultra left "Maoism". These "people" make Trotskyites and anarchists look good in comparison.

Fragile first worlders who don't like it pointed out how the current state of things benefits them and essentially makes them complicit.

The two takes just up my post

>>728253
Sakaioid you need to go back to reddit or bluesky where your kind belongs. We're anti idpol here.

The first two posts of this thread.

I'm not tired of any of the takes. They're all good

Ultra shit.
Including from so-called Marxist-Leninists.

Seriously, getting more offline and into IRL orgs was wonderful. Loner places like most of /leftypol/, Hexbear and other dirtbag places are dominated by the people and moreso, Americans who spend the most time online and least time offline. And their takes reflect it. Intelligentsia minus the intelligence.

People gloating about their critical "support"

Pretty much all the takes, it's too obvious that most of the issues being discussed here have no material impact on the majority of the people talking about them and that the vast majority of you aren't workers.

>>728249
nearly all of them
i hate the cliches of leftist discourse. i wish i was braindead enough to take part. i wish i hadn't wasted the best years of my life taking this joke far too seriously.

in a better life i would be on twitter drawing dogs with red flags, imagining communism is when you draw dogs with red flags for a living. that and a handful of retweeted out of context 'based' quotes. that's it. any more engagement than that and you're wasting your life. everyone more engaged than that is either a bore or a bastard. none of them do anything, though many of them think posting online is doing something. i hate them all. dogs with red flags, dogs with red flags, that's it. anything else is a major red flag.

Mods moving /siberia/n threads to dead boards. Like look at this: >>727514 zero replies since it was moved.

the entirety of /isg/

>>728269
whenever people say this I assume they just mean they turn off their critical thinking skills whenever they are offline. like, they join the must bullshit, garbage org out there and then pretend that the discussions they read online don't apply to the real world because… people irl would never lie/cheat/deceive/trick/misguide them? I'm sure it feels great to join an organization with good people but a fundamentally incorrect political line, and the line is still wrong even if you enjoy hanging around with those people, and you have to still be aware of the big picture

>>728387
Gem 💎

<chomsky bad because genocide denier
i'm glad this will (hopefully) be replaced with
>chomsky bad because epstein connections
because this one has concrete proof. the "genocide denier" schtick is a lazy meme and isn't even factually true

>>728249
>Terminally Online people who say shit like All americans or all white people or all cishet males are irredeemable demons who cannot be expected to improve politically or held to any standard but must simply be exterminated
>4/pol/ racists who get off on screeching slurs and treating people as less than human
>national chauvinists, especially of the MAGA or now "America First" variety
>lgbt phobia, especially of the form that claims LGBT people are an imperialist psy op or they're all liberals or nazis or white colonizers
>male chauvinism, pushing traditional gender roles, patriarchy
>benevolent despotism, monarchists
>antinatalism
>muh trad family values/ everyone should have a bazillion kids
>climate change deniers
>great man worship/demonization
>sectarianism
>being expected to have a real reply instead of just shit flinging is the same as believing in the liberal marketplace of ideas or being a debate bro
>it's necessary to be ruthlessly hostile to people who disagree with you even a little, and double down on that hostility when they try to meet you in the middle
>"conservatives are the real working class"
>"there's no such thing as leftism"
>"leftism is just the left wing of capital, and has no other meaning"
>thinking everyone needs to have a take on everything everywhere
>thinking the victory of the working class is inevitable
>thinking the defeat of the working class is inevitable
>using inevitability as an excuse to not do anything or continue making the same mistakes
>accelerationism, especially of the form "we need to make everyone's life shitty on purpose so they do revolution."
>conflating the labor aristocracy with literally everyone in the imperial core
>pretending everyone in the imperial core "benefits from imperialism" equally from the biggest bourgeoisie all the way down to the homeless.
>pretending the existence of a labor aristocracy makes revolution in the imperial core impossible
>calling other peoples' countries "shitholes" and dehumanizing the people who live there, whether 1st world or 3rd world countries
>"unions and cooperatives are counterrevolutionary and bourgeois, you must only have party organs"
>overly fetishizing centralization for its own sake
>overly fetishizing decentralization for its own sake
>overly fetishizing discipline for its own sake
>overly fetishizing lack of discipline for its own sake
>authoritarian/libertarian false dichotomy
>not distinguishing rank and file voters from elected officials when talking about liberals/conservatives
>pretending there are no factions within the bourgeoisie that can be pit against each other, and that the bourgeoisie is all one homogeneous lump that acts in perfect unison
>pretending there are no factions within the proletariat that can be pit against each other, and that the proletariat is all one homogeneous lump that acts in perfect unison
>all theory, no practice
>all practice, no theory
>theory without historical context

I'm sure I'll think of other things

>>728259
we need to bring woke back

>>728388
his post hit a nerve huh

LARPing as 20th century revolutionaries in an irrelevant party 99.9% of proles have never heard of will lead to revolution

>>728583
not really because I don't waste time shitting on orgs, but it is something that I have observed. like, people will acknowledge that their org is fundamentally flawed and useless but still waste their time with it instead of doing literally anything else. and it isn't restricted to politics, for some reason people are becoming afraid of using their common sense or translating their thoughts into actions, even simple ones

>>728587
is there actually anyone doing that irl

>>728590
Nope.

>>728588
genuinely a """useless""" org does more than shitposting on the internet ever will
you think doing nothing is common sense but that's just risk aversion resulting from perfectionism (which does extend to all things in life, not just joining orgs)
if you're gonna be a shitbag at least be a shitbag in peace rather than throwing stones down from the peanut gallery

>>728638
>genuinely a """useless""" org does more than shitposting on the internet ever will

The DSA, PSL, etc have done absolutely ZIP Nada except cause infighting and simp for democrats

>>728638
This isn't necessarily true. An org that's just a drinking club does about the same as shitposting on the internet, and an org that's basically a cult has negative value. Doing nothing is not common sense, but doing stupid things which do not work is common foolishness.

>>728752
I would carve the DSA off from most other orgs. The DSA have done plenty - not really to advance communism, sure, but they're a functioning organization adjacent to the Democratic party. You don't have to praise that in the sense of thinking it's good, but if you're looking at "is this org totally pointless" you have to be fair and go: no, it just has a point that I don't like.

The one good thing about electoralism is that it imposes an external standard by which an org can be judged: can you actually get someone elected, or at least put in a good enough showing that the people running for office have to pay attention? One can then analyze organizational effectiveness by comparing aims and results. The DSA has a handful of people and has a reason to exist, the Communist Party of Britain on the other hand underperforms joke parties, regional microparties, individual schizophrenics wasting £500 on a parliamentary run, etc, etc…
(You may say "the proletariat has no need for bourgeois electoralism!", that may even be true, but the proletariat has even less need of orgs that can't even do electoralism when they try, and which take no serious account of their failure when they fail. The RSDLP, after all, could get people elected when it wanted to.)

>>728251
>Ultra left "Maoism". These "people" make Trotskyites and anarchists look good in comparison.
They're like this synthesis of Trotskyism's treachery and the LeftCom infantile mentality cooked up to be the perfect COINTELPRO "Left".

>>728259
was Lenin "Sakaist?"

>Kautsky and Co., are obscuring the profundity of the contradictions of imperialism and the inevitable revolutionary crisis to which it gives rise, are still very widespread all over the world. To combat these tendencies is the bounden duty of the party of the proletariat, which must win away from the bourgeoisie the small proprietors who are duped by them, and the millions of working people who enjoy more or less petty-bourgeois conditions of life.

> Obviously, out of such enormous superprofits (since they are obtained over and above the profits which capitalists squeeze out of the workers of their “own” country) it is possible to bribe the labour leaders and the upper stratum of the labour aristocracy. And that is just what the capitalists of the “advanced” countries are doing: they are bribing them in a thousand different ways, direct and indirect, overt and covert.

>This stratum of workers-turned-bourgeois, or the labour aristocracy, who are quite philistine in their mode of life, in the size of their earnings and in their entire outlook, is the principal prop of the Second International, and in our days, the principal social (not military) prop of the bourgeoisie. For they are the real agents of the bourgeoisie in the working-class movement, the labour lieutenants of the capitalist class, real vehicles of reformism and chauvinism. In the civil war between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie they inevitably, and in no small numbers, take the side of the bourgeoisie, the “Versaillese” against the “Communards.”

[…]

>Private property based on the labour of the small proprietor, free competition, democracy, all the catchwords with which the capitalists and their press deceive the workers and the peasants are things of the distant past. Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty.

- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, PREFACE TO THE FRENCH AND GERMAN EDITIONS

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/pref02.htm