/siberia/ - Off-topic

i agree

china is a large contributor to venezuelas current economic crisis. they are not our ally

So what‘s the most reasonable explanation for why China is behaving this way? My cynical guess is that China did fall for nationalist spook and is only interested in their own nation‘s success while benefiting from the destabilization of the rest of the world. That would explain why they continue friendly relations with a pariah state such as Israel and providing no serious support for nations struggling with Western aggression.

The real China is the Republic of China btw

>>728883
They why are you on this website? Stop trying to be contrarian!

>>728877
This is true. I just wish it wasn’t the case. China was way better on Palestine when Mao was funding the PLO

>>728850
>China should have sanctioned Israel a long time ago
Chinese trade to occupied palestine helps palestinians. You speak only for monopolists. You say China should stop helping palestinians. Chinese trade with occupied palestine CANNOT stop and will not stop because palestinians would only be more destitute
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-03/23/c_137058111.htm
>selling mass surveillance to them to use in the West Bank is unacceptable and they should stop
Fake news.
>Other frustrating things about China are the Xinjiang situation
You are but a parrot of imperialist fake news
>>728877
China acts in the strategic interest of world peace and prosperity. China provides the most material support to third world. Belt road initiative. You are imperialist who fails to grasp the mechanisms of geopolitics who believes imperialist news and projects your imperialist outlook onto china

>>728935
>By enriching and feeding Israhell China is helpíng Palestinians
lol, lmfao even

would capitalism disappear when israel loses?
would capitalism disappear when kyiv falls?
would capitalism disappear when the US collapses?
No.
Every real communist knows this, the USSR failed and they constantly sent sappart to third world anti-colonialist movements, yet those places are all capitalist hellholes now. Congrats.
It's like expecting 14th century Venice to send support to some peasants uprising in Central Europe. Even if they did, the feudal counterrevolution would just roflstomp the medieval bourgeousie, or starve it with sanctions, like what happened with the USSR and what would happen if China tried to get more involved in supporting communist guerilla.
>I-I wish China did this instead of that
Never gonna happen, there was no world revolution in the 20th century and capitalism is here to stay until the mode of production naturally transitions, forcing it didn't work for the Soviets why should it work for the PRC?

>>728955
More people died in the currently ongoing Sudan genocide than in Palestine btw.

The Soviets ensured that the Vietnamese and the Angolans had what they needed, the Chinese meanwhile just fund UNITA, the Mujahideen (right before crying about Uyghur Islamic fundamentalism of course) and the Myanmar Junta (not that the rebels are particularly good either but still).

>>728974
So true, Mr. Anthony Blinken.

>>728975
Did Vietnam and Angola achieve communism yet?

>>728973
>would capitalism disappear when the US collapses?
Yes. Europe is a cuckshed. Nobdoy left to defend capitalism.

>>728974
nice deflection retard

>>728981
Russia, India are capitalist powers that aren't reliant on the USA

>>728973
Your argument doesn‘t hold up when it comes to China going out of its way to make deals with Israel. You can‘t argue in favor of non-interventionism and then aid oppressors.

>>728955
millions of palestinians living under zionist occupation in occupied paleatine use those chinese commodities to live.

>>728994
Chinese trade aids palestinians, not oppressors.

>>728975
The soviet fascists ripped off vietnam and everyone else they could. Afghanistan is now free under Taliban and the social fascist empire is dead so China made the right choice by helping those who fought off monopolist imperialkst and social fascist imperialist revisionists alike

Xibros…
What's going on? I can't take it anymore.

>>728998
I don‘t know what levels of copium you are operating on but China has very active trade relations with Israel that have no semblance of aiding Palestinians. These trade relations contribute to keeping the settler-colony alive, opposed to doing the right thing of cutting all economic ties to Israel. Here is a simple summary:

Key Ways China Trades with Israel
1. Goods Trade (Imports / Exports)
• China exports a large volume of goods to Israel: in 2022, Chinese exports to Israel were about US $16.48 billion. 
• Top categories from China to Israel include electrical equipment, machinery (including nuclear reactors & boilers), and vehicles. 
• Israeli exports to China (goods and services) are more modest: in 2022, around US $4.68 billion. 
• Key Israeli exports: electrical & electronic equipment, optical/technical apparatus, fertilizers, machinery. 
• Trade imbalance: China exports significantly more to Israel than Israel does back to China.
• Trade in 2024 (excluding diamonds): Israel’s imports from China rose ~20% year-on-year.
• The trade deficit (Israel with China) reached more than US $10 billion in 2024.

2. Automobiles / Electric Vehicles
• A rapidly growing part of imports: Chinese vehicles, especially electric vehicles (EVs), are increasingly imported into Israel.
• According to INSS, roughly one in every five new cars in Israel in 2024 was manufactured in China. 
• In 2023, more than 47,000 vehicles made in China were sold in Israel, representing 17.4% of all vehicles sold there. 

3. High-Tech and Innovation / Technology Transfer
• Israel is highly valued by China for its technological and innovation capabilities (R&D, startups, water-tech, agri-tech, medical tech). 
• There are dedicated structures for cooperation: for example, the Guang-Israel Tech Changzhou Innovation Institute in China supports Israeli start-ups and research. 
• China invests in Israeli high-tech companies (venture capital, M&A), as part of a broader strategy to tap into innovation.

4. Infrastructure Investment
• Chinese companies invest in and build Israeli infrastructure: e.g., Chinese firms are involved in constructing and operating port terminals in Haifa and Ashdod. 
• The port in Haifa is especially notable: a 25-year franchise was granted to Shanghai International Port (Group) to operate a container terminal there. 
• Chinese firms have also participated in public-transport infrastructure: e.g., involvement in the Tel Aviv light rail system. 
5. Foreign Direct Investment (FDI)
• China has made significant direct investments into Israel. According to Chinese stats, by end-2022 the stock of Chinese direct investment in Israel was US $3.39 billion. 
• These investments span multiple sectors: infrastructure (ports, transport), high tech, and innovation.

6. Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Engagement
• Israel is part of China’s broader Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) strategic thinking.
• Through BRI-related infrastructure projects (like ports), China deepens its regional reach and trade presence.

7. Knowledge / Services Trade
• While goods dominate, there is also some trade in services, especially related to technology and R&D. That said, service trade is relatively smaller compared to goods. 
• Also, cooperation in research, development, and technical innovation counts as “economic trade,” even beyond traditional goods.

>>729034
30% of the Israeli population is Arab.

>>729044
Explain in your own words how that means trade with Israel has aided the Palestinian liberation struggle. I‘m all ears.

china literally cant cut off trade with israel because the state does not have control over the economy. under capitalism you cannot control the economy, period.

>>729048
Would cutting off trade with the US help Black Americans?

>>729049
That is such a bombastically retarded statement because every capitalist country has a government that implements laws that exert control and intervene in the economy. Blocking trade with certain nations is also nothing unheard of. It‘s especially ridiculous to claim this in the case of China when their entire schtick is that they have a Marxist government that puts their capitalist economy on a tight leash.

>>729052
Are black Americans an indigenous people where most of whom live on their native land that they are slowly losing to a settler-colonial nation that would collapse like Rhodesia if enough nations fully cut ties with it?

>>729060
Rhodesia was a minority government, only 3% of the population were Anglo & Afrikans settlers.

>>729052
I just want to point out that your original claim was that Chinese trade aids Palestinians and not that cutting ties with Israel doesn‘t aid Palestinians. Those aren‘t the same statement, and if the latter was true it wouldn’t prove the former.

Also, it‘s funny that you are going for a very pedantic argument where you try to frame it as that Palestinians have been “aided” through China trading with Israel because some of them live in Israel and Israel‘s economy flourishing would indirectly mean they could have a better standard of living too. That‘s completely moronic.

First off, what matters is aiding the Palestinian liberation struggle and not aiding Palestinians in any contrived, indirect sense. That 30% of Arabs live in Israel also doesn‘t mean that 30% of Palestinians live there. You have non-Palestinian Arabs in Israel too and many of them are just Zionist Jews. The amount of Palestinians who live in Israel are a fraction of the total Palestinian population overall, who either live in Palestine or are refugees elsewhere. Obviously it‘s about aiding them in overcoming the settler-colonial occupation of their people.

Are you this stupid and desperate to defend China?

>>729062
So?

>>729068
Not everybody ITT is the same person.
My point is that Israel is here to stay, just like all other settler colonies, and sanctioning them would just be a bump in the road for them. Cuba has been sanctioned for decades and is still kicking, and the US is right next to them. China is far away, but even if the whole EU and Arab world sanctioned them, they would still survive.

>>729069
Do you think the US would suddenly turn into native american nations if it collapsed? Israel is 70% Jewish, it isn't Rhodesia.

>>729072
You‘re the one who is making an inappropriate comparison to the United States. My point is that making a comparison to black Americans and the US is inappropriate.

>>729073
And the appropriate comparison would be Rhodesia, a country where a 3% ethnic minority ruled over a majority?

>>729055
intervention is not the same thing as control, markets cannot be controlled, capitalism cannot be controlled

>>729070
To say „like all other settler-colonial states“ is factually wrong and also neglects the detail that those settler-colonial projects that have succeeded happened during a time where the West had no serious competitors. Israel is an ongoing settler-colonial project that has shown its cracks in the past few years, and we live in an increasingly multipolar world with a crumbling West and a rising China that is arguably the next super power. If Israel succeeds then it‘s because of the apathy of China. People like you simply come up with this defeatism post hoc because you are dogmatically devoted to see no error in what China does. Lastly, for sanctions to be worthwhile doesn’t necessitate that Israel collapses by them but is weakened enough to not continue seizing more land and waging war with its neighbors.

>>729080
China can make trade with Israel illegal. If you are getting hung up over illegal trade potentially happening then you are splitting hairs and ignoring the effect seizing legal trade would have.

>>729083
The US managed to become the hegemon because of the world wars. Europe kneecapped themselves, twice, and Japan burned down Asia, so the only major power with an untouched population and industry was: the United States of America. Its unimaginable, by today's standards, how many people died and how much shit was lost in those wars and the interwar period.

There was no world war the past 80 years.
A multipolar world means different powers, with different interests and motivations. Gone are times of, either Moscow or Washington. Would India & Russia be interested in a weak Israel? Could China win a war against Russia, India and the US just to save Gaza?

>>729075
More so than comparing it to black Americans and the US. Black Americans are a minority in the US and there would be no such purpose as collapsing a settler-colonial state for them as an indigenous people to regain their land. It wouldn‘t even be viable since the US is too powerful for that to happen.

While Israel and Rhodesia aren‘t exactly the same the point is they are weak when effectively isolated and their settler-colonial rule isn‘t set in stone. Many Israelis are cowards with dual citizenship who leave Israel in droves when shit hits the fan. You can‘t sustain a nation this way and Israel as a state is fragile. It is absolutely viable to eventually collapse the state of Israel or diminish their capacity to seize more land.

>>729089
>Would India & Russia be interested in a weak Israel? Could China win a war against Russia, India and the US just to save Gaza?
Since when is Russia supportive of Israel or opposed to a weakened Israel? India is a paper tiger, given their embarrassing squabble with Pakistan. And since when did anyone here argue China must go to war with the Russia, US and China, lol? It doesn‘t necessitate that whatsoever. Simply join the ostracization of Israel by the global community instead of maintaining normal trade relations as if nothing ever happened.

>>729091
It is already way past the point of no return, Rhodesia declared independence from the British Commonwealth in 1965 and lost against the armed insurgents by the 1970s, just over a decade later.

Israel is over 70% Jewish.
Rhodesia was barely 5% white.

>>729094
>Simply join the ostracization of Israel by the global community
Lol, nobody is sanctioning Israel.

>>729096
China as the next super power could take a stance to sanction Israel and other nations who already view Israel negatively would plausibly be receptive to follow suit.

>>729097
There will be no super powers in the coming centuries, it will be a game between Great Powers, a return to the norm.

>>729095
I wouldn‘t estimate this by years, I would estimate this by how advanced the settler-colonial process is and where the settle-colonial state is deriving its power from. It‘s not definitively over.

>>729098
The US is deteriorating and China will end up most powerful on the world stage. To be the sole hegemon wouldn‘t be even necessary to effectively aid the Palestinian liberation struggle.

>>729097
China ain't gonna do shit. They'll let countries nuke each other if it meant they made more money.

>>728975
And the Vietnamese social fascists repayed them by destroying the socialist project in Kampuchea for the crime of supporting Mao against Soviet social imperialism.