The Sopranos finale is the only one of those shows that isn't a total cop-out because the writers liked the character too much so tried to give them a totally unearned catharsis. Mad Men and Breaking Bad have incredibly cowardly finales. The problem with the "ermm you missed the point by idolising them" meme is that in almost all those cases it's undeniable from the way in which the scenes are famed that you ARE intended to like them. I mean, you don't end a show with this ←- shot if you want people to hate the character.
The usual defense of course is "oh it's just realism because in real life such people often get away with such things" (with optional accusations of supporting the "Hayes" Code because nobody on here can spell "Hays Code" correctly), as if that's what people are objecting to, as if mise en scene doesn't exist, as if all the metatextual framing choices don't make it clear that the protagonist is still intended to be liked. So, really, no, I don't think anyone "missed to point by idolising" Walter White, Don Draper, or BoJack Horseman. I think people are just too uncomfortable to admit how much the show kinda DOES want you to like them.
The Sopranos really is the only exception. David Chase pulls no punches with Tony Soprano in the finale and it's why it's the only time the ending works because it completely avoids any catharsis for a character who does not deserve it.
>>755383sopranos ending was really brave in what it did, till this no other show has done the same (except maybe barry)
>>755765lol is this how it actually ended?
Agreed.
Bojack horsemen fucks with me because of its moralizing about mental health.
It frames taking prozac because your shitty boyfriend can’t tolerate your depression and getting fat from the side-effects as a total win.
Bojack should have ended with season 3. Instead of the predictable character arc we got its should been a story of a sad alcoholic that keeps spiraling down and ruining everything around him. Leave it ambiguous whether this is the point he decided to turn his life around or continues being king Midas in reverses.
>>755764I consider Sopranos ending to not only being unambigious, but over the course of season 6 we are shown all possible ending. It starts with him getting another shot in life and immediately squandering it, proving he is incapable of redeeming himself, and from that point onward his fate is either Johnny Sack dying in prison, miserable solitude of Junior, or getting his brains splattered all over onion rings like Tony.
>>755765Strongly agree.
The manga shows Light dying pathetically writhing on the floor begging for his life. He went out the same way as his victims.
The anime gives Light a glorious death, literally bathed in light, as the ghost of his boyfriend L watches.
>>755383The second to last episode of Bojack was kino, the actual finale was kinda unsatisfying.
OP you are just applying your own silly moralist framework where a story only gets to have a satisfying resolution if the protagonist was a good guy. That said these kinds of shows do tend to go for a boring middle route where the protagonist you're not supposed to idolize neither fully spirals into self destruction nor actually earns a redemption of any kind. They sort of just do a few token good things and that's the resolution (usually after going through something mildly uncomfortable like Bojack having the acid trip where he confronts his mortality or Walter White having to live in Canada for a while).
>>756167>moralISM is just when morals under any context whatsoeverim so tired of retarded pseuds spewing words that their own peanut brains believe make them look smarter lol
>>756169Saying that you think TV shows should teach a correct lesson in morality is moralism, but also
>morals under any context whatsoeverpicrel
>>756173this pic makes marx sound like the biggest douche on the planet
you see dat pricks face when he sawr da gat
>>756288He was constantly asking for handouts from Engels while rawdogging his wife and constantly getting her pregnant.
>>756288he was a bitter old man from the age of 25
>>756173>out of context marx quote turned into an epic maymay for the lolz!!!!!!11!!1!yup you are a certified retard. the -ism suffix entails a system; moralism is the belief in an objective morality. plus if you tried to bring your moral preconceptions into your study of medicine from a scientific perspective you would, in fact, not be taken seriously in the medical world. the reason communists critique moralism is precisely because it is a science. meanwhile you are on a thread discussing pop fucking culture
almost nobody on here understands what "moralism" is so they equate it with "having moral opinions whatsoever" as if communists are enforcing some sort of fucking jedi code of mental discipline upon their disciples. this does not equate to having no moral views in any sense. there is nothing anti-communist about thinking jeffrey dahmer wasnt a very good guy, or not randomly raping and mutilating people for fun
>>756288>>756289except all his family, friends and peers liked him. even the prussian agent sent to spy on him found his household amenable
>>756286People who idolize Tony Soprano seem to create headcanon version of that character though. Scarface, Goodfellas, Godfather, those kind of movies, portray the gangster lifestyle as immoral and destructive to everyone in it or around it, but at the same time kind of cool and exiting. Tony Montana is charismatic, principled, brave, well dressed. Tony Soprano is a gluttonous, lustful, lazy, middle aged dad. Right in first scene of the pilot we get him standing in front his mcmansion in a bathrobe with his gut hanging out, followed by angrily stomping out of psychiatrists office when asked if he is depressed. And as the show goes on he only gets worse. There is nothing to idolise, he is a man devoid of virtue. When I hear fans talk positively about Tony, it is how he is a tough guy who takes no shit from nobody, which is pure fanfiction, he absolutely is nothing like that in the actual show, his utter failure to live up to that image of masculinity is one of the central conflicts of his character.
>>755994>Bojack should have ended with season 3I finished bojack but was watching it for literally every character but bojack who should've killed himself after the groomer shit on the boat in hindsight. Every other character was more interesting and grew more than bojack who was just a the same piece of shit for the whole show.
>>756322>fansYou're talkin to the wrong people my friend
Most sopranos fans I see on the internet are actually very reasonable and understand the show for what is. Leagues above GoT kinda faggots
>>756367Those kind of fans dont really exist in current year, because it is 20 year old prestige TV show, the audience is completely different, but if you dig up discussions from some old 2000s forums, it will be full of these people, people who watched it on TV as it aired and just saw it as a mobster show, all the psychological depth and societal critique going over their head. David Chase said he constantly kept getting feedback from viewers who wanted to see "more people getting whacked".
>Leagues above GoT kinda faggotsWhat exactly you mean by that? The only egregious thing I can think of about GoT fandom is that they noticed their show turned to absolute shit three season too late.
>chagos asshole is a homophobe
why am I not surprised?
>>756381Where did I display homophobia, yank animal?
Maybe I should watch Sopranos and GoT
>>756322This is the same shit with gangster rap and punk rock where a lot of fans idolize the OG figures of that era and then turn around and condemn the YNs for doing the same thing
>>756322Tony is easily the only one of the few mobsters with half a brain but he's still a fucking dumbass and only serves to show how ignorant and stupid mobsters in general in the show are.
>>756322Women still think Tony Soprano is sexy. He's tall, not black or asian, and has "a lot" of money.
>>756666Actually, its simple. He is Italian.
>>755383family guy was right about this show fr, if this were live action and did not have animals itd just be another forgettable coworker show. people are all like "oh hes such a tragic character" but theyve given no reason to feel for him except that hes SAD!
Bojack Horseman sucked. It's a show for metropolitan sodomites.
>>761648ye. i dont want to sound like the kind of moron who complains that movies arent "communist" enough but i dont see why i should care just because a middle class person is sad and the show makes it clear enough you ARE supposed to feel for him a lot of the time and i dont. at all.
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